Audio Transcript

Welcome to “Let’s Talk Loyalty”, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas for loyalty specialists around the world. This show is sponsored by Comark a global provider of innovative software products and business services. Comox platform is used by leading brands across all industries to drive their customer loyalty powered by AI and machine learning. Comark technologies allow you to build, run and manage personalized loyalty programs and product offers. With ease. For more information, please visit comark.com.
55s
1

Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of let’s talk loyalty and keeping with our goal of sharing stories from global voices of loyalty. Today, I’m chatting with Daniel Pagano, chief marketing officer and chief operations officer at leVello in Brazil as one of the fastest growing and most profitable companies in Brazil. The Velo is a coalition program that’s focused on innovation and truly delighting its customers. There are loads of great ideas that the Belo has developed that I think many of you listening can think about for your own loyalty programs. So please enjoy today’s interview
1m 35s
0

With Daniel Pagano of leVello Brazil. So Daniel, I’m very excited to hear, please tell me, what is your favorite loyalty statistic?
1m 50s
2

Well, this is something that makes me think a lot on what to use an hour a day on a daily basis. And there are two, two that I’d really love. So if you don’t mind, I’m going to say actually two, but I do love the first one. I’m going to talk to you about this, what you call the engagement measure. So we measure the, the nature and the intensity of the interaction that our clients have with us, right? So we want them to be accumulating points and what we want them to be redeeming goods and services, if the points, so the more they interacting different kinds of, you know, services and products we offer the closer the relationship, the deeper, the relationship with us.
2m 33s
2

So we have different levels of engagement that we measure, and our objective is to have, you know, like a pyramid, right? So our objective, our objective is to have the clients moving from the bottom to the top of the pyramid in terms of engagement with us, the stronger, the better, right? Yeah. The other one is the net promoter score. I really, really have the net promoter score is a KPI, the whole company from the CEO to, you know, our analysts. We, we monitor it and we measure it, not only observing the results, but actually making sure that we define measures to improve specific net promoter score scores, a rehab on a specific journeys, linking the feedbacks and receive actions to correct whatever, whatever needs to be corrected, action plans with specific deadlines, you know, re responsibilities, accountabilities to solve that.
3m 36s
2

And then we check the effect on the end, pass that specific NPS. Once we are done with that corrective measure, try to close the loop on the, on the NPS and observe our progression over time so that he really tackle the most relevant things by the eyes of our, our, our customers. So NPS for us is like a, it’s like a steering wheel for us regarding the, the, the, how much we are fulfilling the spectation of our customers. We have been able to, to have some important increases in, in, on some journeys, for example, in the, in the redemption, we, we have the guests for the redemption of our goods and services, and we were able to over the last year, I can tell you that you were able to increase 20 points in net promoter score because of this specific corrective actions.
4m 34s
2

So that is really, we are very happy. I got to tell you just less mounts reach at a record level of 80 in our net promoter score for that specific journey. That was, you know, we are very happy on that. And that’s why I’m really happy to share that by the way. Well,
4m 49s
1

I mean, that’s a huge celebration, Daniel, because I mean, we could probably do a whole interview and a whole conversation just about this topic.
4m 57s
2

So I really
4m 59s
1

Believe it. So, and again, I think most of the listeners are very familiar with NPS, but for anyone who isn’t, I think it’s so important to remember it goes from minus a hundred to plus a hundred. So for you to be at 80, you know, you’re, you’re in the top, I guess 10% of my maths is right. I’m not very good on the maths, but, but that’s an extraordinary score. And also what I like Daniel is that you’re doing it for very specific journeys. You mentioned.
5m 27s
2

Yes. Yes. Yes. Tell me
5m 31s
1

More about that. Like how many NPS is, would you be measuring, let’s say on a, on a monthly basis, because I think the mistake some companies do make is that they take, you know, how do you feel about leVello? You know, and it’s so broad, like I’ve been asked this question by so many companies and I’m frustrated because I want to give them feedback, but the question is too broad, but I can’t say my redemption journey, you know, is something I cannot advocate. Do you know what I mean? So, so
5m 58s
2

I’d love to get a sense of that. Yeah. Thank you for the question. Actually, we, we divide the NPS is in, let’s say two, let me say two, two types. There is a transaction, right? NPS. So after our specific journey, we ask, you know, questions that will give us the NPS score. Okay. So after our redemption, after the person is, is accumulating points, you, one of our partners, right after, after registering athlete Velo. So in, in different kinds of journeys, we ask the, the, how the person was satisfied or not with that specific journey. And that’s what we call transactional.
6m 39s
2

NPS is per transaction. If I may, the other one is what we call the relationship or the relational, if the English is correct. Yes. So it is after a certain period, you know, we, we ask the person, how are you satisfied, generally speaking with Livalo? So we we’ve the whole set of transactions the person’s having with us. What is the degree of satisfaction that the person has with the person recommended the valley? You know, the NPS typical, typical questions. So we measure those two, the one that I referred to that we scored daily, and we were so happy about what was, what we call NPS redemption and fulfillment. Meaning is the, is the, the answer the person gives to us after the good has arrived at his or her home.
7m 29s
2

So it’s a, it’s, it’s a combination of the journey to redeem the goods and the time it took to receive the good and this and how it was, what it wasn’t, you know, own time without any kind of a mistake, you know, well, package it. So it’s actually in this point, particularly, it’s a combination of what we do and not our partners do. Right? So this is our result, actually, this particular one, just to give a little bit of an, of a specific, it’s a combination of the improvements we have done before. You know, we know our very own operations in the site and in the app, but also the, the efforts we have been doing for our partners to increase the service levels.
8m 17s
2

So right now we have, you know, it, this is something that has happening around the world because of the COVID pandemic, right? The logistics networks got so strong that right now you ask for something, you know, at nine o’clock in the, in, at night and in the morning, some times what you are asked is, you know, in your, in your door. So because of what we have done, because of what our partners have done, we are able to have a very good fulfillment in many categories. And that’s why that’s the reason that our, in this particular case are any pets is so high. We also have that for, for redeeming redeeming travel flights or hotel stays, things like that is also high.
9m 0s
2

So just starting to get back by the way. Right? So, so because of the moment we are living, we are going through. So in all of those transactions we measure and we collect feedback, which is very rich because sometimes the feedback is so specific twice know when I pressed that button, something didn’t happen, you can take it and go and go backwards. And our process to do specific corrective measures that will tackle that specific problem. Very clearly, very, you know, very on top of it very effectively, right? So, but by, by turning this wheel many times and by, you know, taking every time, what is more relevant in the group of feedbacks, we have, we have being able to increase our journeys, you know, gradually tackling the most important problems first, and then the second so on and so forth, so that you have been able to increase in the, as I told you, you know, in 20 or even 25 points in some specific journeys.
10m 3s
2

So we have it by journey. We have also by channel. So we have Ganni pass on our app for our pro website yes. For our customer assistance in a voice, in a WhatsApp or automatic response. So we do that in many different aspects, very different elements of our orchids of our, of our business, so that we can, you know, have a specific measures to ameliorate everything. Wow.
10m 30s
1

Like I have so many things to pick up on Daniel. So thank
10m 33s
2

You for that. This is why I
10m 36s
1

Love this opening question because it creates the opportunity just to showcase and educate ourselves immediately with something super inspirational. So, so that really is extraordinary work. So thank you for that. It’s, it’s really beautiful.
10m 48s
2

Yeah. Great. And if I may, there is one thing that is very important on that. Everything that I mentioned to you, the CEO on a monthly basis is, you know, taking a look of how we’re progressing on that. So this sponsorship for such effort is very important. We have people that are, let’s say the orchestrators of those efforts, but it depends on so many of the people at the company that if you don’t have a kind of a horizontal, you know, support, and you’ll have a scenery sponsorship that you, you know, that will not happen. So that’s very important for us to be able to, to, to progress as we have been progressing.
11m 29s
2

And that would be definitely a recommendation for your, your listeners guarantee, ensure senior sponsorship pour those kinds of efforts. Absolutely.
11m 40s
1

Yeah. And follow it back because I think one of the biggest criticisms of NPS, because again, no metric is perfect and nothing in life is perfect, but a lot of people say it’s too simple and it’s, it’s flawed. And you know, there’s lots of people challenging it, but in my experience, it’s because they’re not having the action plan that you talked about. They’re not then saying, okay, yet we’ve got senior sponsorship and we’ve identified where in the journey, the issue arose, and now we’re going back and retrofitting and fixing that. So, so absolutely, you know, I can see you’ve got, you know, all of the boxes ticked along the journey to make sure that you’re getting those extraordinary results.
12m 19s
2

Thank you. I mean, we, yeah, exactly. We are doing the best we can in that perspective. And I, we have milestones, you don’t have a lot of disciplines. So it’s about setting the goal, having the action plan, having the team as disciplined on the follow-up. Right. So this, this is what have been the, the, the, the elements of those are the B have been the elements of success for us so far. Well, we’re
12m 43s
1

Off to a great start Daniel. And just before we leave NPS M or, or actually specifically redemption as a journey, because so many times on this show, we’ve talked about, that’s the moment of truth, you know, so everything else, you know, could work perfectly. But if that piece fails, actually, you’ve, you’ve probably damaged the, the customer’s loyalty. So, so I agree that it deserves its own NPS and I won’t name the brand, but I was researching some FMCG loyalty programs recently in north America and the fulfillment in the fine print. Because again, as professionals, we go and look for what’s going on the fulfillment for a reward for this particular.
13m 23s
1

And I mean, it’s one of the biggest companies in the world was quoted at between five and six weeks for your rewards.
13m 31s
2

Who’s going to wait
13m 31s
1

Five or six weeks for a leading branch. Anyway, I won’t run too much about it. So back to the Velo, I have some favorite statistics that you told me from our last call. And first of all, it’s your fifth year. So I think you’re just coming up to your fifth birthday. Am I right?
13m 49s
2

Yes, she has. It was just in June. Oh,
13m 51s
1

Brilliant. Okay. Well, happy birthday to Lavella. That’s super exciting. And the, the figures just again, because so many people like me have never, like, you know, looked at loyalty in Brazil and I know nothing about the country or the market, but really incredible. You have 25 million members and 180 strategic partners within the coalition program. Correct. Yeah. And my favorite, you told me you’ll have over 1 million skews in terms of redemption options for your members.
14m 22s
2

Yeah. Yes, we do. I mean, we, we have lots of partners that, you know, from, from, you know, traveling agencies, to companies that provide, say delivery vouchers, for example, if you want to, to Regina evolve should use, when you, when you request something for, for house, you can read in a voucher for companies like Uber, for example, I can show the names, no problem at all. So yeah, we have a great variety that to suit, you know, different kinds of needs. So she wants to fulfill, you know, a dream to travel to some, you know, some place that I love it. We can use the points for that.
15m 2s
2

If you have some very, you know, day by day kind of need, you can use live ELA as well. So if you want to redecorate her house, if you want to buy some new clothes, you know, if you want to, whatever you want. And right, what we do now is that we allow not only the goods and services to be obtained on the digital platform when you have also moved to the physical world as well. So right now, if you go to over 1.5 million establishments, you know, commercial establishments or points of sales in different, you know, four different, different kinds in Brazil, you can just redeem whatever he wants, like a coffee.
15m 45s
2

If he wants to redeem espresso, here’s your points. You can do that. This is a very important jump for us because we want to be as a coalition program. You know, one of our goals, I’m talking to you about engagement the very beginning, right? We want to be, we want to be, to be present in the, in the life of our customers, you know, 24, 7, 265 days a year for whatever kind of need the person the person has. So digital, it’s only part of our, our life in this aspect, right? It has gained a lot of relevance because of the pandemic, but it’s definitely just a part of it.
16m 26s
2

No, if you want to put some gas, you know, in the car, if she wants to, you know, have an ice cream outdoors, have a coffee, or, you know, for any particular reason, you are just strongly on the streets. So you want something right now within a certain network of, of partners. We have actually, partners are the right word within, within a group of companies which have the, the machines, right? The off our partnering company, you can redeem the goods or service using Livalo. So I was one of these days, I was just walking with my team, the dogs in the street, and the kids said, you know, I would love an ice cream. I no problem at all. I just stop at the, at the, at the corner shop.
17m 9s
2

And I read, I redeemed a, an ice cream with my points. Wow. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
17m 19s
1

It’s the simplicity sometimes. Really? Isn’t it, Daniel that really impresses and has the wow factor.
17m 25s
2

I love what you just said. I mean, I simplicity simply, I don’t know who said, but simplicity is the ultimate luxury, right. So yeah. So at the end it takes a lot of hardware to be, to be simple total. Totally. Right. So, yeah. So this is something that I, I heard someone said that I just loved that we have to work really hard to embed all the complexity within leVello so that he can provide us simplicity possible to our customers. So that’s what we aim at. And that’s exactly, as you said, I got into the store. I said, please, I would like this ice cream. How are we going to pay with leVello percent?
18m 6s
2

Well, that was very new, by the way, it was a pilot phase. How do I do that? So if you just eat, you press this and this and that, and that’s fine. I use my app ready, two seconds ready? So that was really, the experiences was beautiful. It was just great. And it’s something that we it’s ramping up right now, as people are getting back to, let’s say something close to normal, right. We hope that we will be back to normal very soon. And we, we really, this is an important strategic pillar for us, and we believe it’s going to ramp up very fast as things get back to the room. Yeah.
18m 44s
1

I think it’s an important learning as well, Daniel, because I’ve written a few times about, for example, say Starbucks as a, as a world famous, you know, loyalty program and the last big change that they made. The most obvious thing to me that I noticed was, again, the accessibility, I think of rewards. So to your point around, you know, you know, geographically, first of all, it was, it was right there and the simplicity of it. And I guess the affordability of it, because I think it’s important not to have to wait, you know, six months or whatever, to get a flight or whatever. So, you know, to get those micro rewards, I think that’s really, really something that customers love.
19m 24s
2

Again, it was spot on, I mean, the it’s so important that, that as we say here, the accumulation and redemption will has to be turning very fast, right? Yes. It’s like money. The more money you get, the more you are at T’s to spend money. Right? So the easier it is for you to get points more at ease you are to, to, to redeem points. And if you have a small, as you said, micro rewards that you can, that you can, you know, have access to it. It’s just brilliant. So we do have that. Yeah. Well, as I, as I said, I mean, just a, an espresso, you know, it’s, it’s something that it can have with, with the points, but also the small things, like, for example, I don’t know, in Brazil, it’s very something that is very popular is what we call the, the recharge for be able to sell our phones.
20m 15s
2

Right? So in the prepaid mode, you buy the recharger. So you can also buy the recharge with the develop points. So this is something that people use a lot. We noticed that, and in recent also released the cashback function. So you can also have money deposited in your, in your bank accounts, just, you know, making points, turning to money. That does, by the way, that’s the name of that. He had that realization is not very well, but importantly, better. Like you can, you can retain money using your points. So you have a certain amount using your app.
20m 57s
2

You select the bank accounts, just make the points, become money directly into your bank account. And this is one of the smallest tickets let’s put it this way that we have for using points. Wow. I would guess.
21m 12s
1

And, and I don’t, I think that’s a fairly new innovation. Am I right? Daniel? From what you told me the last time? Yeah.
21m 17s
2

Yes, yes. You are. You are, we, we, this is, was something that we, we, we launch it by March this year and the acceptance was just huge. Just huge in many aspects. Yeah.
21m 31s
1

Because that’s the obvious question then is, you know, exactly, you know, what’s the mix then of popularity of rewards, I suppose, particularly to get the, the pandemic has, has ultimately obviously, you know, delayed, let’s say that the, the travel redemptions I’m guessing, so I’m guessing you’re seeing dramatic change. Are you in terms of what people are choosing to claim for?
21m 52s
2

Yes, we are. When we are before the pandemic, something close to 70% of the redemptions were related to the travel segments, 70 wow. Category. My goodness. Absolutely. So it was about that. What already observing trends of the, the, the travel related items, you know, decrease a little bit in a, relatively to let’s call it known travel elements. We call it, catalog the retail, kind of know the items that can be redeemed in addition to traveling when the pandemic, you know, Strokers everything that was related to traveling just went down to zero, nothing.
22m 42s
2

And we observed a switch to catalog items. So electronics many, many different things. Yes. Oh, absolutely. Do each do a, do it yourself or do at home. So from, yeah, from pro tools, from kits of, you know, tools to, to do some at home too, I, I don’t know that we just think about this relation here. It’s not like a pen, but it’s, we have something that was very popular, which is the, the something that allows you to fry items at home without electronic fryers, friars and fryers, absolutely. At your fries were just a huge heat.
23m 25s
2

So many things like that, just when you know, the, the, the, the, the redemption rates of those items just went to the roof. So you observed the, a very dramatic change for traveling to those kinds of items. And we observing the strength of e-commerce. At that point, they were observing that change in catalog. We actively also mail it all, a lot of promotions and moves to try to make people see, listen, live out is much more than traveling, just tickle Kappa to have for you. So he designed a specific collections like the home office collection, ergonomic chairs, computers, mouses, mouse, pad, all those things related to home office, the, the master chef collection.
24m 14s
2

So, you know, pants, cooking, cooking items, you know, all those kinds of things, gardening, right? So all of a sudden things, we made specific collections of items that could be redeemed with points given the moment we are going through. So we, in addition to collections, we did a specific promotion for the sort of items we increased the, the assortments on those specific items. And that took a lot of a space in our, in our whole assortment. The catalog items grew more than a hundred percent over that period. I’m talking about 150% growth on those specific items, both on the, on the small tickets and on the big tickets.
25m 0s
2

Okay. So I’m talking about refrigerators and also talking about, yeah, I’m talking about barbecue, barbecue kids were chasing her like a knife. So we’re just a huge heat as well. Well, so those kinds of things, they grew a lot in terms of represent representation of irrelevance to have in our, in our redemption, as a portfolio, as a whole, as we see traveling going back, that’s the interesting move, what we are observing now, catalog group a lot. And that’s traveling is getting back. Catalog is maintaining its absolute size because traveling goes those high in relevance and relatively speaking, but catalog is, is to maintain its strength, which means that a new customers or customers that were already fully, Valo got to learn that they can redeem for, for the sort of goods.
26m 2s
2

And they’re still doing it. Yeah. So these actually piled up on top of the traveling that came back as we are observing now, for example, in June, which means that we are probably going to get out of the pandemic with a healthier mix and a stronger position than we than what we did, the one that we were prior to the pandemic. Wow. So that was something that I own the team. I mean, Rafa, you know, the, the, the, the, the people that are in the, in the, in our teams too, were so responsive to pilot, many of the projects we were undertaking to those moments to, to that moment and to those initiatives that we’re able to let’s put it this way, surf the wave of the things that were coming to our direction in the, in the independent.
26m 57s
2

So this is something that was amazing to see in the company. Yeah.
27m 3s
1

It’s a pretty dramatic transformation. As you said,
27m 6s
2

It was, it was a pretty dramatic, we think that it’s going to come back different than, than what we was prior to the pandemic, but not necessarily as a, as a complete change. So traveling is still going to be very important. Actually many demands for traveling are actually just waiting for the moment to come back. So we, we, we believe that the traveling travel entertainment industry will suffer a huge increase once people can go back to fulfill their dreams, you know, for traveling and things like that. So it’s still going to be very strong, but as a whole, the portfolio we’ll show it a different configuration, a different mix, which again, I believe it to be healthier for, for the company.
27m 54s
1

I totally agree. And you used a word as well, Daniel, which I think we all need to remember, and it’s just to educate our members about our proposition. And I’d love to just ask you now, because you also mentioned another of my favorite tools, which is WhatsApp. And I know certainly in south America, I think particularly Brazil is perhaps the country in the world that maybe uses WhatsApp. The most it’s either, I think Brazil or India are the two most dominant markets, I believe using the WhatsApp platform. But, but the reason I’m asking is suppose in general, is, you know, was it a situation with this pivot that you mentioned that it was outbound communications and that, that you used to educate the members?
28m 38s
1

Or was it purely that they were coming to the site and finding, you know, a different layout and a different proposition there, or I guess a mix of both, but it’s the communications makes I’d love to get, because it’s, it’s a huge education job that you’ve managed to, to achieve.
28m 53s
2

We, we, we actually used a lot of active communication on that use differential using different channels. So social media emails, you know, SMS, the, the app itself, no, the push notifications. So we used all that WhatsApp, actually it, your particular question is something that we are, we are growing now. We know it’s a very relevant platform. We, we need to use it and we are actually scaling up, scaling it up right now and definitely want to use it. Instagram was absolutely huge for us as well, very important. So actually we use lots of different digital channels and react to peer experiment syncing with the ones.
29m 37s
2

For example, telegram is something that you have been experiencing now so far, you know, if a good, good degree of success. So by, on that time, what to do is we’ve intensified a lot of the communication, meaning the number of impacts that each person would receive, as you said, educational texts and messages. So we actually do it for example, an entire series of meditation videos on YouTube as well, just talking about not talking about another channel, which was, was made exactly to teach customers or non-customers of what leVello was about and what are the benefits of Livalo.
30m 19s
2

We actually had a campaign. We feel very famous figure in the, in, in Brazil, in YouTube, which is a person that teaches about many different things. So it it’s called the relation would be probably the, the, the world manual Alexa stitching about, you know, many different things for kids, particularly, but also for, for, for, you know, for other adults, they just love it. And then we use this person to explain about Livalo. So with the same language, if the same, you know, inquisitive spirit that a person has in their program, that attracts so much attention, we also use it to explain the veteran a very fun, simple communication, a very simple way to people that was, that was really a great success in terms of impacts in terms of time that each person would stay watching the videos.
31m 18s
2

So this is one of the efforts that I did try to Kate about not totally valid, but I got to tell them about the category because you want a very spot on, I mean, the category particularly in Brazil is something that is not easy to understand. So programs in general programs in general programs in general, especially related to coalition programs. So not only developed, but many companies, they spend a lot of effort trying to explain the category to the public. Wow. It’s something that is you need to do. So w the, the, these educational efforts were very important, not only to talk about, listen, we also have, you know, those other items in addition to traveling, but also to say, Lisa, let me talk about what we do and why we can be, you know, yeah.
32m 3s
2

Why bother,
32m 6s
1

But it’s a good point, actually, Daniel, because you’ve reminded me of some of the customer research we used to do on the first loyalty program I worked on, and this was always my frustration because we always got the same result back. And I wasn’t in charge of communications, unfortunately, but only a third of our customers ever even knew we had a loyalty program. So, so, and, and it’s unexpected, especially in telecoms there, the industry I was in. So, so I’ve always been, I think, frustrated at them at how communications, how challenging it is to do it well, which is why I’m loving to hear the mix that you’ve got going on, because I think we’ve become, over-reliant on email and I, for one I’m pretty jaded.
32m 46s
1

And again, perhaps, you know, the pandemic has, has made me more so, but I do love video. I currently love voice. I’m probably the only person in the world who doesn’t do Instagram because I already feel a bit overwhelmed, but anyway, you can imagine, so I’m trying to do a few things well, but, but that’s a lovely communications make. So, so interesting to see that evolving and, and, sorry, just one final piece on WhatsApp again, just because I’m doing a bit of research on it at the moment. Are you generally using it more on the customer service side, or is it being used partly in the redemption journey or, or what kind of areas of your member journey do you use that particular platform for? We
33m 25s
2

Started in the customer assistance. We are now also, you know, using in parts of our redemption effort. Like for example, if the person has any kind of problem can, can communicate via WhatsApp, it’s between mixes customer assistance, but related to the journey to the redemption journey. Okay. And we want to do it more. We want to expand the users and we, we are right now, you know, doing that. So if we have this conversation like six months from now, probably I’m going to be able to talk to you about many different users, because that’s the goal.
33m 60s
1

Okay, great. Yeah, no, I was already thinking about in the back of my mind, Daniel, I don’t need to follow up with you now to make sure that I get the, the new story now and
34m 8s
2

Six months time. Wonderful.
34m 11s
1

The last, I suppose Lavella question I really wants to ask was, was just on a very practical note around, and I know you started as a purely digital program again, five years ago. And you mentioned obviously now the extraordinary scale and footprint that you have, literally, it sounds like the whole, the whole of Brazil. So you’ve gone, you know, offline and you’ve gone into the physical world. So, so what kind of identifiers do your customers get? Is it just the app? Do you issue plastic cards or, or for example, when I spoke to punches Columbia, they’re using the national identity card as a loyalty identifier, which was very new idea for me. So I don’t know if that’s something that also works in Brazil or what do you use as your loyalty identifiers
34m 55s
2

At this point? Well, the, the for going, for example, offline, it is the app. So the app is the, is the, is the way through to be able to redeem or, or services or accumulate points and the, and the physical world. But when you talk about the identifier, it’s a, is a, is a, it’s a national ID. Okay. It’s the similar to the social security number that we use for individual customers. Yes. That’s what we use when you’re talking about physical item, like the, a credit card, right. Something like this, we don’t have it at this point. Yeah.
35m 32s
1

But, but why would you as is what I would, I would be thinking if you, if you can have a commercial of the national identity cards as in Columbia, I think that’s fabulous for the consumer. I don’t know other parts of the world, whether that would be allowed with all the legal, you know, I can imagine it’s quite a complex thing to, to authorize, but it makes you your job. I think that much easier, you don’t have to issue something else.
35m 56s
2

Yes. We don’t need to, for that particular purpose, you don’t need to, if you, if you come for example, to issue a card or something like this, it’s going to be for a fully complimentary use, not for that, for that, you know, but definitely for, for identification as a set, nothing else. In addition to the, let’s say again, social security number, if I may
36m 22s
1

Not at all, which makes things very simple. It does make things very simple. I’m very envious. And so my final question, I’ll Novello, and then I have one on your other, other M a topic, which I love which we’re going to get into, but just what, what would you say then is the future focus for the Velo? Like, are there, you know, you know, is there lots of innovation still required? I think post pandemic, or what are you focused on for the future to, to keep growing so successfully?
36m 49s
2

Well, that Bentley, the, the expansion to the physical world is something that’s is doing its initial steps, right? So we, we see as a huge opportunity, we need to do that and it makes our life much more complex because then we will become really omni-channel and we need to make sure that the journey is, are seamless to our customers, regardless of where, you know, which point of contact the person using. So this is something very relevant for us. And he, as I said, is that isn’t a strategic pillar, another strategic pillar that I can mention to you. We are putting efforts to develop a lot, our customer relationship management capabilities, because you want to be as personal as we can in the communication of each one of our customers.
37m 42s
2

So I want to be able to write in the context right in the moment with the specific message through the specific channel, to that particular person, to be able to send a message that you resonate, you know, right spot on, on what the person is wanting or at that particular moment. So the personalization is something that we are, is to not at the point that you want. So we are making lots of efforts to be able to do that. Personalization drives loyalty, right? Good experience drives loyalty. So, so we are trying to make sure that you have all that to, to, to increase the, the, the degree of loyalty we have with our customers, and therefore being able to provide that to our partners.
38m 23s
2

Another thing that we want to expand, we, we have different services that provides to companies wanting to use Livalo to increase their own value propositions. Right? So for example, if a company wants to provide, develop points as a way to provide incentives to their Salesforce, they can do that. So we want to expand our offerings to the, the, those, those companies so that, you know, we can increase our ecosystem, our network, the loyalty, the coalition is a network business. So the larger, the number of members of that network, the stronger the network and the higher, the value for each individual participant of the network.
39m 8s
2

So I, to keep on expanding that, right, and we want to expand quite a lot, the, the, the services in, in particular regards to possibilities, to accumulate points. So definitely needs to increase, you know, especially considering the, the, the boom of e-commerce, you know, the marketplaces swings, things like that. We see an opportunity there that we’re wanting to explore. And also in the financial services, we definitely see, I talked to you about cashback, right? So you want to explore more opportunities on the, on the financial services to be able to increase again, our ecosystem. So those are avenues that we’re tackling, and that we are doing everything at the same time, but those are things that we aim at at, at the end.
39m 56s
2

And that’s why I talked to you about engagement at the end. We’re thinking about, you know, increasing the level of engagements our customers have with us and increasing the network so that it can be stronger and provide more value to the customers and to our partnering companies. Yeah.
40m 13s
1

Makes perfect sense. Daniel and Anna will definitely say, I particularly liked the, I think it’s called BTE business to employee or the, you know, you know, rewarding staff, because obviously then what happens as it, well, first of all, you’re solving a pain point for companies who need a mechanic. And so I think that’s super nice. And, but also then there’ll be marketing your program to their employees, which is genius. You know, you get that, all that upside. Yeah.
40m 40s
2

What I say is that they bring customers, individual customers for us on books. Right. So that’s why they do oh, mass. Right. So what they do is that they help us increase our network in a very flat steps. And then yeah. Yeah.
40m 57s
1

Super powerful. Wonderful.
40m 59s
2

So we, we do this sort of chose, give, chose a circle or spiral to grow our business.
41m 6s
1

Absolutely. Yeah. Brilliant. So the final piece, then Daniel, again, just having a look at your LinkedIn, and you’ve already mentioned financial services. I saw this other beautiful idea, which I really love and a company called Tinder. I hope I’m pronouncing that correctly. Great. I don’t speak Portuguese. I think I said to you, but tendon looks like a really beautiful concept in the FinTech space based on gamification that I know that you’re advising and investing in. So, so I’d love you to tell listeners all about tendon.
41m 40s
2

Thank you for that. I love to talk about this. I mean, tingling is a, is a platform to provide financial education for children. So the purpose of, of teen team of its founder was to, as he said, democratize financial education, right? Considering that the lack of financial education in adults, actually something that is an obstacle for a person to leverage, you know, the money they have and to, to gain prosperity, prosperity in the, in their homes and fulfill their dreams and things like that. So when you start in an early age, you provide the basis, you know, for the person to be able to, you know, take care of his or herself and make sure that, you know, doesn’t follow into, into any kind of financial distress, but more than that, to be able to, again, prosper through life.
42m 35s
2

So what they do is that think Dean created a through an app initially, a platform that would with gainification, for example, provide a co hasty pen control for kids. So for example, let’s suppose that there is a monthly as depend for, for a kid with the, with that particular app, the person, the, the father or the mother, or the parents will be able to say, okay, listen, you have five tasks to, to, to accomplish right now, have to make her mad. You have to help me put the trash out. You have to cut the grass, whatever, when you do that, you, you, you be able to, to receive your, your money. So what they do is that they, the app who say, make her bad, the app, you say, you know, cut the grass and then the kid will be allegeable to them, to, to the money.
43m 24s
2

But more than this, the kid can, can establish a goal. Okay. I want to buy a soccer ball, right. Yeah. So, and I bought a soccer ball with my money, so, okay. So how much is the soccer ball? I don’t know. It’s a 10, 10 something, right? Yeah. How much is your S depends? Two to two minutes. Okay. So I need five weeks or five months to get there. So the person will track the progress towards that goal. So it teaches children how to save, how to think about the future, right? So this is the sort of things that they do. And recently teaching stroke, a very nice contract with one of the largest educational groups in Brazil to provide financial education content for the school.
44m 9s
2

So the primary schools of those, of that company, of that large conglomerate. So right now they, they, they started as a B2C company. So then we, after, after I joined us Ellison, we can think about, you know, other kinds of growth avenues. And then all of a sudden they stroke this contract that now via schools, they provide content. And they also provide the platform, the financial education platform for the, the, the, the students, the, through the schools. So they are, they have been growing fortunately quite a lot. And, and the, the, the, the fulfillment feeling is, is so, so rewarding because I I’ve seen some videos recently.
44m 53s
2

There wasn’t a, there was an experience with a, with a government owned school in a city, in San Paolo, the city where I live, they provided the, the material, the financial education material to kids, and they were observing, you know, some, some aspects related to the development of the, of the kid, how they would retain the knowledge if it’s like that. And there was some videos about the kids talking about what they learned and talking about what they are and how they’re applying it. And it’s just so beautiful. I tell it, you want to cry because what I talked to you about, they are thinking about the future and saying, listen, I wanted to buy a mouse, a very funky mouse for my computer.
45m 34s
2

Right. So I wanted to buy that I had no money. So I, I, I decided to establish a go and people asked questions like, okay. So how did you, why did you, how did you save money? Because, you know, why didn’t you didn’t to save before you would say something like before that I didn’t have that particular goal. And I would spend some money buying, I don’t know, candy or stuff like that. After I stabbed the goal, I noticed that the more I would save the sooner I would have the, the, the goal. Wow, that’s beautiful. Isn’t it ordinary? So that’s something that’s very, very rewarding. So I’m very happy too, that my path crossed with the founder of teen D I was actually the, the, the first investor and I became a mentor since then.
46m 21s
2

And right now we are six and investors they’re there. They have been, they have received lots of prizes from, from prominent startup, you know, startup. Thank you. Yes. So right now they are in a different stage. So I’m very happy, very happy with what’s happening, not only for the company, but more than this for, for, for the fact that they are able to increase the reach of their, their mission.
46m 51s
1

Absolutely. And they have a purpose, and I always do believe, you know, like, again, especially in the loyalty business, we, we know how to help incentivize, you know, desirable behavior change and to use it for a higher purpose like you are doing with, with tendon is absolutely beautiful. So I’ll certainly make sure then Daniel in the show notes, as well as everything for leVello and everything for you personally, we’ll make sure to link to tendon as well, because I’m sure there’s a lot of parents that are listening. There’ll be very excited to, to learn how it goes. And I’m sure you have global ambition around that one. Why not? Why not? Why not? So that’s it from my side, Daniel, is there anything that you wanted to mention before we wrap up?
47m 32s
2

No, thank you. I’d just like to thank you so much for this, you know, informal impressions conversation. Wonderful.
47m 38s
1

Great. Well, listen, Daniel, it’s been an absolute joy and love the work that you’re doing and yeah. Very excited to have you have had you on the show look forward to hopefully another one. I want to say thank you to our friends in Comark for introducing us. And with that, I want to say Daniel Pagano and thank you so much from
47m 55s
0

Let’s talk loyalty. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. This show is sponsored by “The Wise Marketer”, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research. The Wise Marketer also offers loyalty marketing training, both online and in workshops around the world through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 150 executives in 18 countries as Certified Loyalty Marketing Professionals. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of “Let’s Talk Loyalty”. If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on Let’s Talk Loyalty.com and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday, or just head to your favorite podcast platform, find “Let’s Talk Loyalty” and subscribe. Now, of course I’d love your feedback and reviews and thanks again for supporting the show.