Audio Transcript

Welcome to “Let’s Talk Loyalty”, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas for loyalty specialists around the world. This episode is brought to you by Epsilon on their award-winning people. Cloud loyalty solution. Personalization should be integrated into the entire customer experience, including of course your loyalty program. With this in mind, Epsilon recently released a guide outlining six key components that will put you on the path to personalizing your entire loyalty experience.
51s
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This guide challenges you to do some housekeeping and reconsider how you think about your current and future loyalty personalization efforts. So to download your copy of the report, visit epsilon.com forward slash let’s talk loyalty. Hello, and welcome to episode 145 of let’s talk loyalty today. I’m back in one of my favorite countries in the world, both personally and professionally, South Africa is a fascinating country of over 60 million people with 11 official languages, three capital cities, and plenty of ethnic diversity.
1m 36s
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Amanda chrom house is the founder of a boutique loyalty consulting firm called truth. And she’s joining me today for a second time. We’re here to discuss the latest findings from the truth and branch map, 2021 south African loyalty white paper, which was created from the country’s largest study of consumer behavior in the recent year. While the programs you would hear us discuss are obviously only relevant locally. The trends and insights are definitely relevant globally. So I hope you enjoy listening to our latest conversation with Amanda Krom house from truth in Cape town, South Africa.
2m 18s
1

So, Amanda, first of all, welcome back to let’s talk loyalty.
2m 22s
2

Thanks, Paula. Absolutely lovely to chat to you again.
2m 25s
1

Great. Great. I’m sure it’s been a hectic week since you launched the white paper last week as it.
2m 30s
2

Yeah, it’s great. It’s a important thing in the south African loyalty diary. So yeah, it’s been, everyone’s interested and that’s the response we needed, so, yeah, it’s great. Thanks.
2m 41s
1

Wonderful. Wonderful. So you’ve given me some incredible insights already, Amanda, on the key topics we’re going to talk through today, but let’s open as we always do with your favorite loyalty statistic with all of this amazing research, hot off the presses.
2m 56s
2

Great, thanks. So yeah, the survey that we have released the white paper is in collaboration with a company called brands map. And well, the study is called brand map. The company is called Y five and they survey online and the responses are online. So it does skew towards customers with a household income of 10,000 runs or more in South Africa, which is approximately what Southern dollars six 50.
3m 28s
1

I think I worked at Azure 6 75. Yeah.
3m 31s
2

Household income. So it really is the majority it’s certainly the majority of economically active south Africans are 80% of consumer spend is captured in the survey. So we are confident confidence from the data to be able to say this 74, the stats you’ve asked before 34%. So 74% of economically active. And I’ll stop saying that after this introduction say economically active south Africans are using loyalty programs. So that’s an enormous quantum of all consumer spend is captured by loyalty program and set in the south African markets.
4m 12s
2

Yeah.
4m 13s
1

And I actually think you’re right, Amanda, to, to emphasize the economically active because South Africa has, you know, very different demographics to, I guess, anywhere else in the world. So there are no whole lot of people who are not economically active and therefore won’t be relevant for loyalty program owners and certainly this audience. So, so no problem with that being emphasized, but you know, wow, what a statistic, 74% we had delighted.
4m 39s
2

Absolutely. If it is up versus last year. So last year actually was 2019 data, but we released the white paper in March, 2020, and then it was 72%. So that is a increase. It’s not the highest it’s ever been, but it isn’t increased. So the highest it’s ever been was in 2017 where we saw the statistic at 79% of consumer spend active south Africans using loyalty programs. But yeah, it is up and even, so even if it was at its 2019 data at 72% is still a to a number.
5m 20s
2

It is.
5m 20s
1

You’re absolutely right. Yeah. And you also am, did explain to me before we came on air, I suppose the absolute numbers is about 30,000 people and you also emphasized, which I think is useful for the audience to understand it’s a hundred percent of taxpayers in South Africa. So it really is the full addressable market from a loyalty perspective.
5m 41s
2

Yes. And the brand map study, I mean research to 33,000 people is a solid piece of research. You know, you’ve got it’s, it’s robustly very, very solid and they’ve been doing their brand map study for nine years. So their, their actual study covers so much more than loyalty. We’re just lucky enough to work with them in partnership to gather the loyalty data for our white paper.
6m 3s
1

Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. I think you said to me, there’s, there’s 200 odd measures of consumer behavior that runs map are capturing and you obviously hone in on 20 or 20 or so questions which are relevant for your needs for your clients, for your market. So as you said, it’s extraordinary to be able to piggyback on everybody gets the benefit.
6m 24s
2

Absolutely. And the industry does as well because the industry uses this and we’re able to use it to help clients throughout the year. And a lot of the industry’s been in touch with us already saying, okay, great. Let’s, let’s unpack it in more detail. So it is a win-win for sure. Great.
6m 41s
1

And I was looking back, Amanda, because as you said, the last study that you released was completed in 2019 and would you believe your appearance on my show was episode number 27, March 19th, 2020. I think in Dubai, we were two days in locked down. You were probably the same in South Africa. Wow.
6m 59s
2

Oh goodness. I know there’s so many of those moments. In fact, we were chatting on the launch last week, Brandon, from who talked through, he works for wifi. He talked through the brand map results. He said actually that we had a live event last year. And that was, I think probably the last, certainly the last group gathering I’d been in for 18 months now. So, oh my Lord.
7m 24s
1

Well hopefully, sometime soon again, Amanda. Huh?
7m 26s
2

Yeah. And I think what I love about this year’s white paper, this release, it really is a view of life captured of consumer behavior throughout lockdown, you know? So we’ve been able to see some fascinating results that really do reflect the 18 months or the 12 months because the data where the research went into fields in March and April, so it captures 12 months of COVID impacted consumer behavior.
7m 55s
1

Got it. Got it. Wow. So where should we start, Amanda? What is the first thing that you learned from this incredible piece of research that our audience would love to learn? Yes.
8m 5s
2

So before I talk about the actual brands that have changed their sort of hierarchy of usage numbers, what we did, what we did find is that male usage is up dramatically and surpass females, which has never been seen before and in our marketplace in the south African marketplace. So 76% of the males from the survey are using loyalty programs, 72% of females. And that number has never been higher male versus female. And wow, that does, I really believe that does reflect COVID times because you know, everyone’s working from home. Okay, I’ll go and do the shopping today sort of behavior you share the household chores, the household consumer spend responsibilities.
8m 53s
2

And, and, and therefore I think, you know, the male consumers become more in tune to the benefits of loyalty programs and particularly in retail when unpack the different industry behaviors, you’ll see that, you know, not surprising retail has been on the up, but yeah, we’ve seen, we’ve seen higher male usage versus previously and higher now versus female. Wow. I know. Fascinating.
9m 18s
1

Well, I also, I just, I was thinking back as you were telling me, Amanda, you know, to my, I suppose, kind of media days and you know, when you’re booking advertising, for example, for Browns and we would always say, now this was, you know, maybe 20 years ago, I will say, and in a digital context, so possibly skewers to a younger demographic actually. But at the time we always said that women made about 80% of household decisions. Like we were that sure. That it was just women who, you know, had the interest, had the time and, and maybe just put the effort in. So it’s absolutely extraordinary. I think it’s the first time actually I’ve ever heard of a marketing study that has men more engaged and active than women.
9m 57s
2

I know same absolute same. So it’d be interesting to see if that continues as maybe normal kicks back in, but we’re delighted as well because you know, it’s, it’s, the relationship has been brands can hold onto an existing relationship with the female or its female consumers, and now maybe they can actually penetrate more of the co the more skeptical, you know, more male consumer has been a bit more skeptical in the past of loyalty programs. We see that in a boardroom discussion that often a boardroom might be, you know, even 50, 50 or 80 20, whatever the statistics and the guys are always the ones who say, ah, don’t use loyalty programs.
10m 41s
2

And so you have to unpack it for them and say, well, actually the south African male consumer does. Yeah.
10m 47s
1

Yeah. Well, and I do think as well, as you said, for, for a brand, that’s looking to influence household decisions, it’s one thing to be driving them through one member of the household, whichever one it might be if there was a lead, but to have access, as you said now to, to, you know, to have people in the same household and, you know, getting the same communications, engaging with the same programs. I think it’s much more likely that the message will finally come through because I always think that especially has, you know, the number of programs increases. And I know you’ve seen growth in that as well. I definitely think, you know, the best programs are the ones that will be able to get their message, you know, in different ways to the same people in those households.
11m 29s
2

Absolutely. Yeah. So obviously if you break it down brand by brands, which brand, the brand map study can do, we don’t publish it in the white paper in that level of detail. But if, if we were breaking it down by every single one of say the top 25, most used loyalty programs, they will then give you an actual percentage split out of a hundred percent of male versus female. So, so we don’t, we don’t publish that level of data, but it is readily available with the interesting.
12m 1s
1

Yeah. Yeah. So I loved the usage figure and I also loved Amanda that you compared it to the recent us statistics. So obviously the bond brand loyalty report came out recently and also versus some usage statistics from Australia. So when you share with the listeners exactly what’s happening in terms of the number of programs that south African members are, are connecting with or engaging with or members of pardon me? Yes.
12m 27s
2

So, so the south Africans are now members of 8.7 programs on average, obviously it’s an average, which in isolation doesn’t probably mean very much, but versus the 2019 study, it’s up by 50%. So that’s massive. It was 5.6 programs. So we see a 50% increase there. So we’ve seen this huge leap from 5.6 to 8.7. In fact, when the, we first started tracking these number programs was 2014, it was 3.6 programs. So we’ve read in the growth over the seven years. And then if we do look at the comparative stats, as you suggested from, it was great that we had the bond study and the Australian figures had come up previously, you see in the U S you know, the U S bond of tracks, the U S market at 16.7 programs, average Canadian 13.4.
13m 26s
2

And then the Australians is a lot less at 4.4 versus South Africa, 8.7. So I’m surprised it’s the first time we’ve seen actually that figure in South Africa go up so dramatically. And it’s good to see it’s comparison globally. What we do see though, even though I said that more male consumers are using loyalty programs than before and slightly more than female consumers, in terms of the actual number of programs, the females are members of more programs. So the more males are using loyalty, but it’s females. Those females that are using loyalty or members of more programs than their male counterparts.
14m 7s
2

So, but that gap has narrowed. So if we track it year on year, over the past six or six years, it used to be plus, or minus 30% difference between the two genders. And now it’s 20%. So males are members of 7.9 programs and females at night 9.5. So we’re seeing the gap narrow, but females are still sort of more acutely aware of the number of programs they can participate in.
14m 35s
1

Okay. So, so already I’m thinking we have to book you in for your annual appearance, Amanda, so we can, we
14m 42s
2

Can track
14m 44s
1

Totally, totally. Which I know you do. So, so that’s always, what’s amazing. I think you said it’s the, it’s the sixth year of your participation and publishing this white paper, isn’t it? It
14m 53s
2

Is. Yeah. And I think that’s what makes it more and more interesting now because on writing this year’s paper, which I absolutely thoroughly enjoyed doing, cause it really gets your head up. So, you know, it just gets your head into a sort of strategic space for the market rather than per clients. We were able to really look at so many of the measures over time, which obviously we can now do so because we’ve got the longitudinal study coming from brown, that brown maps actually in its ninth year. And this is the sixth time we’ve issued the white paper and has history of the white papers. Obviously the data, the most up-to-date data is relevant for this year, but the previous stories, because each year we pick off different strategic loyalty stories.
15m 38s
2

So I always say to our clients, you know, if you actually just want the good old fashioned loyalty read, you can download any of them because they’ve all got different angles and different stories to that we focused in on, in that particular year. Yeah,
15m 53s
1

You’re absolutely right. You know, as long as we know, you know, when it’s something is coming from, there are still conclusions that provoke interesting thoughts and thinking. So, so I know you keep all of those white papers from every year on the truth website, Amanda, so people can go in and download any of them and all of them, I guess, if they want some bedtime reading, absolutely.
16m 13s
2

Quite a lot of bedtime reading, but yeah.
16m 16s
1

Yes, we’re probably a bit too geeky quite for bedtime, but anyway, the option is there. So listen, my favorite statistic, I think you described it as, as the million dollar question and I’m not sure how many markets actually ask it just as, maybe as well as you do. But the particular question about, you know, does membership of loyalty programs actually influence where you shop and what you buy. So will you share with the listeners the incredible results he got on that question? Yes.
16m 45s
2

This is, it’s a deliberate question to, and because it’s a extremely important and B it actually then is super helpful for brands to argue the cause within the organization later down the line. So that particular question exactly does it influence behavior? So the criteria we ask is how, you know, does it it’s as simple as that, does it influence your behavior? So where I shop the products I buy, where I buy fuel, where I bank that eats. And then there is a question in that it says all of the above and interestingly 27% of respondents say all of the above.
17m 26s
2

So whatever stats I’m about to give you actually need to add all of the above to it. So I could give you the stats with all of the above built into the answers. So the results are 91% of the consumers who are saying they use loyalty programs are influenced where they shop by loyalty, 67, the products they buy or influence 64% where I buy fuel 60% where I bank and 45, 40 6% where the places I eat. So in terms of is the investment in loyalty worthwhile. I know there’s a million other different criteria and measurements you can use.
18m 12s
2

This is a strong indicator of, of, you know, how people feel and what the brand might study actually allows you to do. If you, if, if a brand wanted to, is to then go, okay, well, can I look at a consumer is deeply using my products and how they feel about that because they can then look at, okay, which can, which consumers said they use brand X and how do they respond to this question?
18m 38s
1

Okay. Okay. And, and I know what we always have to do. I guess Amanda, as consultants is expect somebody to play devil’s advocate. So for the purposes of my amusement today and what, what I could hear, you know, some people and maybe commenting, maybe let’s say the more skeptical people. And we know that that is a very big problem in our industry. I will, I will say. And so what they might say as well, people say things, and then they do things differently. How do you respond and how would you, what would you recommend loyalty practitioners say, if they get that kind of challenge internally about what customers say they do and what they, you know, then actually always do.
19m 19s
2

Absolutely. Paul. I mean, that’s the challenge of any research study, isn’t it? So it’s claimed behavior, not actual behavior. So the only thing I can back that up with as well, therefore rip up every piece of research you’ve ever read, because it’s not about what else see otherwise, you know, if you take global stats of changed behavior, you know, you’ve had many a practitioner on your show that talks about the incrementality measurement of loads of programs. You know, I think I loved the start. You had a few months ago from Epsilon where the gentleman was talking about plus 10% incremental sales performance, which is such a massive number, you know?
20m 1s
2

So that’s actually saying, okay, well, if I take a hundred million turnover because of loyalty and nothing else is going to become 110 million, you know, so we always, whenever there are, and that is probably the biggest intellectual debate we have around loyalty with clients is over, how do you prove the value of it? So this, as you say, from a survey from the brand map, survey is claimed change of behavior, but it’s not just, we’re not talking about 5% of people say to us, we’re talking about 90%. So yeah. Even if it was 50% wrong, it’s still a massive number.
20m 38s
1

Well, actually that was going to be my, exactly my own response going, yes, you can’t dismiss everybody. You know, we all exaggerate, but we don’t totally kind of lie, you know, w that’s what we think we’re doing, you know? So there has to be a lot of truth in us. And again, human beings being human beings. It’s hard to know, but that, no, I think that’s a very good way to put, I guess,
20m 58s
2

Yeah. I don’t believe 91% of the respondents are wrong. You know, I’m not going to hang on to the 9% they don’t aren’t influence through.
21m 8s
1

Yeah. Yeah. And tell us about the generational piece, because I think, you know, probably consistent with other markets, Amanda, there is, you know, you know, certain cohorts that are more disengaged than others. So, so what did you find for south African consumers?
21m 23s
2

Yeah, exactly. That, as you said, it’s quite similar to other markets. When we read from the UK, the you gov study from the UK, they also claim this exactly the same insights around the younger generation is certainly less engaged in all two programs. So we see if I go back to that first statistic of 74% of south Africans are using loyalty and that’s that for the 18 to 24 year old age bracket is 46%. So it’s dramatically less. And what we’ve seen over time is it’s started to, it started off dramatically less when we started recording it in the white paper, but, and then it increased quite a lot and then it has dropped off further.
22m 12s
2

So it’s, it’s, it’s not quite at a it’s at its absolute as theaters. I’m just triple checking is last time we measured it in 2019, it was also 46%. So no change since pre COVID and that’s the lowest two years since we’ve been measuring it. So, you know, we, I read what came out of the, the, you go for the mandate connect, do you go study and everything they said actually resonated with those so same for the south African market base. So, you know, it’s very much that if you look at what the younger generation want from loyalty programs, not dismissing the fact that everybody wants cash back, everybody still wants cash is their number one benefit from programs.
22m 56s
2

But if you look at the softer benefits need, look at the softer opportunities that brands can present to the membership basis. The younger customer is looking to share more, is looking to donate more, is looking to do more for, you know, sort of social responsibility and core brands just aren’t quite going far enough on that. It’s almost like, well, okay, you can give your points away, but what about going a bit deeper? Can we not really make a difference? So I do think the younger generation that, that that’s certainly a comment that came out of the mandate connect report from the UK is that there’s just not enough genuine connection with social responsibility, but let’s not also dismiss the obvious a younger consumer earns less.
23m 43s
2

They’re either maybe just starting out in their career and the, or their students or whatever, the position that in. And if you earn less, you’ve got less suspended. So you’re going to get less benefit and therefore use loyalty programs less because that is a direct correlation between income claimed income and usage, lots of program usage, but it’s not as dramatic as the age drop off. So the younger customer drops down to 46%, but the lowest income bracket of the survey drops down to 68% versus 74 is the average. So it’s not as dramatic a drop-off you see that the youth of not only as a income factor income, therefore spend factor, but it’s also a, an approach, you know, are these programs doing enough, but also the digital adoption in South Africa?
24m 40s
2

Yes, there is progress, but they’re not, it’s not instant enough. It’s not technically amazing enough for the young sister. You know, I talk to my kids about it and they’re kind of like, what do you mean I’ve got to wait? Or what do you mean? I’ve got to build that point. So
24m 58s
1

Yeah. Yeah. The whole concept of delayed gratification is, is let’s say not as well established in a, in younger folks off
25m 6s
2

In everything, not just loyalty programs.
25m 9s
1

We shouldn’t be surprised Amanda. Huh? Yeah, exactly.
25m 12s
2

Exactly.
25m 12s
1

Yeah. And one thing I would add as well, because there was, there was just something I loved in a recent interview as well. And I don’t know if you’ve seen it, Amanda, but it was a fabulous guy. David Kanti, very well known in the industry and particularly in the U S but there’s a program there, which is really, really relevant for the younger demographic because it’s based on rewarding rental payments. So if you rent an apartment or a house, or, you know, even I dare say student accommodation, you know, they’ve managed to find, you know, where the majority of that demographic are spending, whatever income they have is probably on rent rather than, you know, luxury goods or going to the pharmacy or whatever.
25m 56s
1

So, so I definitely think the relevance of categories, those get, you know, it does increase, I guess, as we get older. So I thought it was those, there was a lot of insight there around, oh yeah. Rent is something that, that demographic is spending their money on. So, so maybe loyalty is only relevant in sectors like that, you know?
26m 14s
2

Yes. And yeah, I absolutely, I feel, I feel the power of that because we’ve done some really interesting work for a couple of clients here in South Africa actually, who have really interesting accommodation rental pools set up with really kind of great accommodation, like low costs, but it’s modern and fresh and inspiring and no, no kind of 12 month lease period, you know, it’s more of a monthly come as you go kind of relationship and they’ve engaged with us on, on loyal, how loyalty can play its role in terms of rewarding, great paying behavior and rewarding for payments on that actually for paying rents and all the other stuff you can do as a great tenants.
27m 1s
2

You know, so if you’re a phenomenal tenants, you look after the property, you give, notice, you tell them when there’s a problem with the electricity or whatever, whatever, and all of those non transactional behaviors around just living in a shared accommodation can be rewarded as well. Yeah.
27m 18s
1

And I know we’re going to come on to talk about the categories of usage. Amanda and banking is, is a really big one, obviously in South Africa. And again, just as a final point on the, on the rental concept, what I loved is as certainly with built rewards, they’re building up the credit score for people, you know, are, as you said, extraordinary tenants paying their bills on time. And at some point we’ll want that data to go and get a mortgage, please God. So to get them onto home ownership. So, so I love that kind of giving back to the consumer for behaving again, in a way that we want them to.
27m 53s
2

Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. It’s really great. Know if you can capture the younger consumer this age, then that’s a great, totally lifelong relationship. Hopefully.
28m 4s
1

Exactly. Exactly. So tell us about the cash degrees then Amanda. I know we talked before. It’s not surprising, obviously that grocery retail is probably what benefited most, or we say it from our very unusual circumstances in the last 12 to 18 months. And so maybe just give us a sense of what’s happening with loyalty usage across the various different categories of spend.
28m 28s
2

Yeah. So obviously as you say, the one thing all of us around the world were allowed to continue doing was eating. And many of us did too much of that. So the grocery retailers definitely all grew the most in terms of law to usage. And we saw that the brand that came out as the most used loyalty program had previously been the most useful to program when we started the white paper series and then dropped into second position, has now regained its top position only by one percentage point versus clicks. Okay. Pick and pay smart shopper is sitting the 80% of economically active south Africans using the smart shopper program.
29m 13s
2

And they have grown by 22 percentage points versus 2019, which is
29m 18s
1

Wow. That’s quite a new program as well. Isn’t it? Amanda?
29m 22s
2

It’s 10 years plus or minus 10 years. So I think you may be thinking there is another big grocery retailer in South Africa with a new program, which is only 18 months old, which is checkers.
29m 34s
1

Okay. That’s what I was thinking.
29m 36s
2

Yeah. They’ve come straight into the market and fourth position. So nothing to force with 60% using the program. So they’ve done exceptionally well to come in so high so quickly, and they have an enormous footprint in terms of store coverage, but the grocery retailers, you know, when I look at spar rewards her in six position, they’ve grown by 16 points. Macro has grown by 14 points. So, you know, it’s really a Wallace, which is a combination of groceries. Plus general merchandise and fashion is 14 points, percentage points up. So all benefited, well, I wouldn’t say benefited.
30m 17s
2

They’ve all given the consumer what they needed and loyalty has been part of that proposition. Okay. So the other, the other categories, I mean, what’s interesting actually is when you speak, we did an interview with pick and pay without letting them know they’d work and they would, they would grow the loyalty person was great in terms of giving us some really great insights, Melissa Hanley, she’s head of loyalty in strategic partnerships to pick and pay. She announced that the sales percentage of loyalty, so lots of users, percentage of their total spends has grown from 60, 63% to 75%.
30m 58s
2

Well, they’re putting it down to the introduction of the smart shopper program of something called smart prices. So traditionally the smart shopper program, it was a points-based program with, you know, it was actually a half percent on grocery spend or not just those three on any spend and pick and pay plus personalized voucher. So they’d been using the data for many years to offer relevant discounts to you on your shopping behavior. But now they’ve introduced aggressively and store smart prices. That is the very best price in the store is available to you. And you can see it and it’s bold and it’s bright yellow, traditionally blue store that their branding is blue, but you have to be a smart shopper to get smart prices.
31m 45s
2

So they’ve really, really combined baseline points program with personalized batches, with best price and store for members. Wow. Yeah. So it’s, it’s super compelling. Yeah. It’s great to see the story come through over time. I mean, they are 10 years old, so they’re not a baby in the program and the loyalty worlds and they’ve developed over time. So it’s wow. It’s good to see the difference. And then the other category is that we, we don’t deliberately go out and measure certain categories. That’s just how the consumers respond. So the other categories that obviously financial services, which has banking and insurance and there, then there’s the restaurants and the QSR environments.
32m 26s
2

Then we pull out travel, and then actually we have a fifth category of other because we can’t pull telco out separately. Cause that’s yeah, there’s only two or three brands and I thought, okay, cool. You know, DSTV rewards, which is satellite TV. Yes. There’s only the one brands with a little slot, so they will get put together.
32m 50s
1

Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. And we’ll definitely link to that interview with, with pick and pay. Amanda, I think sounds like Melissa is doing, as you said, incredible work on a loaf when we get insights like that, that, you know, a brand is proud to have been able to share. So I’m sure everybody listening to this show would love to hear more about that.
33m 9s
2

Yeah. So, and as, as what I do like is they’ve been in the market for years, they started off there. They have a big footprint in South Africa, don’t get me wrong. They are extremely proud south African brands. And as they were number one in the most used program, as I said, but then clicks clicks club card is over 25 years old and cream, the established loyalty program and held onto that number one spot. But it’s, it really is only one percentage difference between them. But I know it’s a firstly competitive pick and pay every game top spot.
33m 49s
2

So I won’t take that away from them as well.
33m 52s
1

That’s amazing. Wonderful. And then I know one of your favorite questions, as well as around, you know, what program do south African consumers say that they couldn’t live without, if they could only keep one of the, what did we say? 8.7 that they’re members of. So tell us the big news on that one.
34m 10s
2

Yeah. This is probably my favorite question. So I think you said your favorite was the influence question. This one is probably my favorites in the sense that it forces the consumer to say, okay, well I’m a member of these eight points, seven out of those, which one would I hold onto if you force me to, what is the most fascinating out of this? So whilst we see in the most used loyalty program lineup, the top 10 within the top 10, there’s only one non retail brand in there. Whereas in this question, what comes out the top seven brands are all financial services and then retail kicks in for the next two and then another financial service to say eight out of the top 10 of financial services.
34m 59s
2

So really I’ll give you a lineup of who comes up top, but it really gives you a sense that that’s financial, the financial services brands are tying loyalty so strongly into their core value proposition. That actually, if I had to stop swiping my credit card, I would lose the most rewards. Wow. Because obviously you can use your credit card, actual grocery retailer, and a fuel. And so the, that multi-sector coalition type setup, even if it isn’t necessarily a multi partner program, which most of them are anyway. But even if it’s not, I can still get the most value out of, out of the financial services, loyalty program. And right now in, in these Tara times, you know, I need the most value.
35m 42s
2

So what the company that came first, last year in this, in this question also top the table, again, this show says FMB eBooks, they’ve been around for 21 years now, 43% of south Africans said, this is the one program they can’t live without. Wow. But what’s really interesting is when you really dig under the layer of detail that we show. So for example, Investec rewards Investec is a bank in South Africa that more affluent bank than most markets even feature in the top 25 most used loyalty programs.
36m 22s
2

So what you see is, for example, only a small amount of south Africans, 3% of south Africans claim to even use it Investec rewards. But those customers who do, and they’re asked with this question, 32% of them said, I’d never give it up. It’s the one I’d hold onto. So they come in at the fourth, most ranked program that the one they can’t live without. So it really gives you a sense of the, almost the brand love that our program has created within its users. Okay.
36m 58s
1

Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah.
36m 60s
2

That makes sense.
37m 1s
1

It does. And you know, FNB, so first national bank is not what that stands for. Am I right for the acronym? Okay. So first national bank of South Africa e-books, which I believe is what a 21 year old loyalty program. So again, super well-established isn’t it
37m 17s
2

Very established has been, you know, has it been like cliques club card, one of the oldest, most longest standing programs in the market and yeah. Wow. You’ll you’ll, you know, you had mom and their CEO talks very openly about two things. I resonate with what he always says is number one, we are here to serve the bank, obviously to serve our customers. But ultimately, yeah, we’re, we’re part of the bank. We’re not a standalone loyalty program. We, our strategy is the bank strategy. So if the bank is following a digital innovative first approach, eBooks, we’ll make sure we reward customers for, for that kind of behavior.
38m 0s
2

So brilliant, very closely to trying to drive the bank strategy. But obviously they want that they proudly say they give maximum value back to consumers. So they don’t charge a monthly linkage fee and the, they claim to have over 90% of redemption rates. Oh wow. So, you know, Hannah speaks very openly about that. And for the last years, they’ve, they’ve they’ve, since we’ve been running the white paper series, they’ve been the top non retail brands. So retail was, comes up top, but they’ve always been the next brands eBooks. And then they’ve for the last few years, we’ve asked us questions about which program can you not live without Ebbets has come out towards.
38m 43s
1

Wow. Wow. And thanks to your kind introduction, just so that listeners know, we do have an episode coming up with eBooks. So I’m very excited to get into that full story, because as you said, they’re so often quoted as just, you know, the, the golden child of, of really taking care of those customers. 90% redemption rates is extraordinary and obviously consumers feel that love and then feed it back to them. So yeah, I think they’re just supposed to be super proud. It’s an incredible story.
39m 10s
2

Yeah. Yep. That’s great to report and see, you know, to see it over time. And, but if we look at the financial services sector separately from retail and separately from that question about most loved loyalty program, the second program is discovery vitality, which I know you’ve featured a few times, maybe not directly by talking to them, but they, you know, and, and if you speak to the vitality team, they don’t see themselves as a reward program. You know, they’re, they’re an enabler for better wellness, but they now have, as discovery has a discovery bang kind of discovery ensure products. It’s not just about health and wellness.
39m 52s
2

So the vitality program supports all of the product pillars, whether it’s health, whether it’s banking, whether it’s insurance and then the retail bank standard bank, you can test done well this year it’s become the sec. You know, it’s come, come in ahead of absolute rewards and that bank green dot. So the traditional banks have all come in and then, and then I know you interviewed a while back Brett from old mutual rewards, they see them in six position in terms of financial services, rewards programs.
40m 25s
1

Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant, brilliant. So again, it’s, it’s absolutely fabulous. And I will say discovery is definitely on the wishlist. So please God come 20, 22. We’ll be able to have a discussion with them as well. So, so loads going on, Amanda, and I guess my final question was around the, the most surprising piece of research or the, the surprising conclusion and which came through in terms of, you know, how south African consumers like to identify themselves at the point of sale. I think you’re equally blown away with this one. Huh?
40m 57s
2

Yeah. Paula, it’s just fascinating. So we’ve been asking this question in the brand map study for three years now, which what is your preferred identified? And that we use that exact question. What do you prefer to show yourself in a store? Is it a card? Is the app, is it your cell phone number? Is it your ID number? Cause ID numbers have a prevalence in South Africa. Every card identification has become first, but we’ve expected the percentage to decline dramatically. So, and especially on the back of a, yeah, totally
41m 37s
1

Contactless and everything, you know, not leaving the house. I mean, it’s just an obvious assumption. Okay.
41m 42s
2

Obvious assumption. So I was, you know, if I was a betting woman, I would have put money on it. And then I didn’t because it’s, it’s gone even further in the reverse direction. So 76% of south Africans are saying, we’d rather swipe a card than use app cell phone ID number. Wow. Other, and then the app usage is own. The app usage is 27%. It’s slightly up since 2019, which was 23%. Remember consumers could choose either or we haven’t forced. The one only, you know, do you like to use app? Do you like to use cards? So that’s why it doesn’t add up to a hundred percent.
42m 23s
2

Yeah. It’s just incredible actually. And it really shocks brands when we work with them over how to develop the best customer experience. These are the stats that come through. But again, if you, if you work with brand map and you dig beneath the surface, you can’t take that as a blanket response and apply it to every brand, every sector. Because you know, if you’re a British show is executive club member, but number is dramatically different and pro app rather than car. Interesting. So it does depend on the sector and the brands we’re talking about, but overall it’s 76%.
43m 0s
1

Yeah. I mean, I just don’t know where to go with this, Amanda, because when we’re both ex British airways, which is, is one lovely thing we have in common as well. And I’ve often said on this show, actually what I remember from my, you know, very long, you know, it was 20 years ago now, but I do remember that gold card holders loved showing the cards. So I’m sure there’s also a different tier status. Again, if you dig into brunch bop, I’m sure you’d find, you know, that, you know, maybe British air was gold card holders, love to swipe baby blue card holders. Don’t, you know, I don’t know, but for me there was, you know, the reason for swiping there was around flashing the gold cards.
43m 41s
1

So the element of prestige, whereas obviously an app and being digital is just easier. But I do think there’s an element of app fatigue as well. Like this is why I’m really not sure how I would, how I would think about identifiers, like as a consumer, my favorite identifiers, my phone number. Cause I just, I always know it. It’s not going to fail.
44m 1s
2

Yeah. So this marketplace same for me, but in the south African marketplace, interestingly, the use of an app and this data issue. So consumers are concerned about using data because it’s a cost. But secondly, a lot of like, I know my local grocery store, there’s never any cell phone coverage. Like I feel like I’m in a safe house. I like literally lock down. I can’t use it. So that’s another issue. And then using a cell phone number for some customers, there’s a lot of cell phones, SIM swapping. So maybe more affluent customer, less so, but there’s a lot of certain multi-center customers.
44m 46s
2

So it seems an obvious single identifier to a lot of markets, but in South Africa that can be sometimes problematic. Oh, I understand. Maybe the card is just the safest, it’s the simplest, it’s the, you know, but it still leaves me a little bit speak to this each time.
45m 7s
1

Well, yeah, as I said, do you know, I think these are the, the, the fascination discussions to be had as we go forward. And, you know, as we’ve alluded to please God, as we all get out of our houses back to hopefully full normality. And, but I know I did say to you, and again, you know, listeners may have heard on the show that was exactly the same conclusion from the Australian market in terms of the identifier of Joyce and was very much a swiping of a card. And that’s thanks to our friend, Adam Posner, who’s done his own, you know, again, equally comprehensive study there. So you’re certainly not unique. And I think we all need to probably put our thinking caps together to understand exactly, you know, what is the driving force behind that?
45m 49s
1

But certainly cards are going nowhere from what we can hear. Yeah.
45m 52s
2

Well I think it’s, I can’t say it’s good necessarily because of the environment, but I, we can’t deny that’s what the results are saying, so we will need to work with it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
46m 6s
1

Well, listen, that’s it from my side, Amanda, again, it’s a masterclass in strategic thinking. So first of all, thank you for your extraordinary work. I would expect that this must be well, it clearly is a labor of love, but must be a huge thing that the, that takes up a north a lot of your time every year and obviously adds immense value. Is there any other aspect of the study that I’ve missed out on that you want to mention? And obviously we’ll make sure then to, to tell people exactly where they can find the study if they want to read it themselves.
46m 36s
2

Thanks, Paula. The only other section that is a section in its own rights actually is we introduced a new question, three brand map this year for multi-partner use it. How do consumers feel about multi-partner programs? Because obviously worldwide, the huge and South Africa, they’re very, very all over the plate. You know, all brands are starting to go outside of a closely setup. So there’s a few that still remain closely, but multi-partner most fascinatingly, most south Africans don’t understand what they are. There’s a 34%, not most, but more than any other response, 34% of south Africans responded.
47m 16s
2

I don’t know what a multi-partner program is interesting, But all of those customers who did know what they are, 25% said, they thoroughly enjoy them because they can earn points faster. So it’s an education process at the end of the day.
47m 33s
1

Okay. Okay. Well also good because I do think GAM, yeah. As the OT professionals, we, we know education in so many areas, but it’s interesting that multi partners, particularly one, obviously that’s causing confusion. So definitely ones for brands to focus on for the future
47m 49s
2

To keep it simple and well explained.
47m 51s
1

Yeah. Yeah. So tell us where canal listeners find the study then Amanda,
47m 56s
2

But yeah, it’s very straightforward if you go onto the truth website. So it’s www dot truth. T R U T h.co dot Zed. A and the first thing you’ll see is a click here to download the white paper. So truth CEO dot, and then you can download all of them if you wish. But the most obviously 20, 21 is the recent release with brand map.
48m 20s
1

Yeah. Yeah. And I know I’ve often just typed in truth loyalty, South Africa, if I couldn’t remember the domain name, so always super easy to find. Wonderful. And so obviously in the show notes as well, Amanda, I’ll make sure that we’re linked to the truth website are linked to you on LinkedIn. Obviously, if anybody has any questions, I’m sure they can reach out to you or to me, I guess, is that the best thing is LinkedIn the best place to contact you?
48m 44s
2

Yes. With pleasure or my email direct. I’m not too concerned and direct it’s Amanda at truth dot C. I don’t set a, so any questions please? Yeah.
48m 55s
1

Wonderful. Okay. Well, listen, that wraps up another fabulous show. I am. Thanks again. As I said, for all of the work, all of the insights. So Amanda founder and CEO of truth South Africa. Thank you so much from let’s talk loyalty.
49m 10s
2

Thanks Paula.
49m 15s
1

This show is sponsored by “The Wise Marketer”, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research. The Wise Marketer also offers loyalty marketing training, both online and in workshops around the world through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 150 executives in 18 countries as Certified Loyalty Marketing Professionals. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of “Let’s Talk Loyalty”. If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on Let’s Talk Loyalty.com and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday, or just head to your favorite podcast platform, find “Let’s Talk Loyalty” and subscribe. Now, of course I’d love your feedback and reviews and thanks again for supporting the show.