Podcasting has proven to be the most powerful marketing I’ve ever done, so today, I’m talking about the power of podcasting, and other formats like video, as tools to create customer loyalty!
At this extra-ordinary time of change, these communications channels, and particularly the human voice, create compelling connections with customers in a way I find truly exciting.
My guest to discuss this is Jon Dwoskin, who has published over 1,000 podcasts episodes of his show “Think Business” and he joins me on “Let’s Talk Loyalty” to share his insights on how to become more successful in your own career or business using content and these audio and visual communication channels that you might not have previously considered as tools to build loyalty with your customers.
PAULA: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals.
PAULA: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
PAULA: If you enjoy listening to podcasts, I encourage you to check out Thinking Caps, a 10-minute or less video series covering loyalty, customer engagement, and all things digital marketing, published by Cheetah Digital.
PAULA: This series is clever, and quite often shares disruptive ideas that can inspire.
PAULA: Thinking Caps videos are published several times a week and are available on Apple podcasts.
PAULA: Thinking Caps by Cheetah Digital.
PAULA: Videos 10-minutes or less that can help empower marketeers as you navigate the complex landscape of customer engagement.
PAULA: Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty, where I’m talking about the power of podcasting to create an experience of loyalty between you and your customers.
PAULA: It’s perhaps an unexpected idea, but I really believe that this format is one of the most powerful marketing activities that I have seen in my career to date.
PAULA: My guest is Jon Dwoskin, business coach, mentor, and speaker, and also host of his own podcast called Think Business.
PAULA: Jon has released over a thousand episodes of his podcast, so clearly is a prolific podcaster.
PAULA: And I wanted to get his perspective on why you as loyalty professionals should at least consider launching a branded podcast for your business.
PAULA: So without further ado, I’d like to welcome Jon Dwoskin to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
PAULA: So Jon, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
PAULA: I am dying to hear.
PAULA: Please tell me, what is your favorite statistic?
JON: You know, Apollo, one of my favorite statistics is, and I found this statistic, prediction slash statistic last year before the pandemic, was that by the year 2030, 85% of the jobs that exist do not exist today.
JON: And so I found that fascinating because how much change there’s going to be in the world.
JON: And then COVID hit, and they say it accelerated it, five to maybe even seven years.
PAULA: Yeah.
JON: Yeah.
PAULA: My goodness.
PAULA: Okay.
PAULA: Well, I’ll be dying to get into what you do, Jon.
PAULA: Obviously we’re here today to talk about, being fellow podcasters and, audience are all loyalty professionals dying to hear about what I’m calling you actually, if it’s okay with you as a prolific podcaster.
JON: Thank you.
PAULA: I was looking on your website, and literally what I can see is you have recorded and released over 1000 podcast episodes, Jon.
PAULA: Absolutely extraordinary.
JON: Oh, well, thank you.
JON: It just kind of happened.
JON: So, yeah.
JON: So, I mean, it happened with some strategic planning, but yeah.
PAULA: Well, you don’t get to be a business coach without doing some strategic planning, Jon.
PAULA: So tell us a bit about your business background and how you became a business coach in the first place.
JON: Yeah.
JON: Thanks for asking.
JON: I always wanted to be a business coach.
JON: You know, I always wanted to, from the time I was 18, my dad at 18 before I started college gave me a set of tapesets by Brian Tracy called The Psychology of Success.
JON: Oh, yes.
JON: And he said to me, Jonathan, I think you’ll learn more from these people than you will college.
JON: If you get less than a three point in college, you’re coming home.
JON: But I think you’ll learn more.
JON: You’ll learn more.
JON: And I, Paula, I put it on my ears.
JON: I put my Walkman.
JON: I’m 49.
JON: So I put my Walkman, you know, my cassette player.
JON: And it was a life changer for me.
JON: And I thought, you know what?
JON: This is exactly what I want to do for a living.
JON: I want to inspire people.
JON: I want to be of service to people to help them grow their business and get unstuck and write books and speak and just help.
JON: I don’t know.
JON: It was just I felt like it was completely in alignment.
JON: Well, I and so from that moment on, I studied and listened and read everything I could up until literally before this podcast began.
PAULA: Oh, my God.
JON: I do it.
JON: I do it every day.
JON: And anyway, I graduated college.
JON: I felt like almost giving myself a Ph.D.
JON: in these kind of because every day I would walk to class and I’d be listening every day to these tapes.
PAULA: Yeah.
JON: And anyway, long story short, I graduated college, I double majored in economics and journalism, and I started an Internet company in June of 1995 with my brother and a buddy of ours.
JON: We I led the sales, I grew the sales team, I was responsible for kind of leading the business planning and accountability and things of that nature.
JON: And then two years later, we sold the company to the largest Internet professional service firm in the world at the time.
JON: And then we were partners in that company for a couple of years.
JON: After my contract was up, I got into commercial real estate.
JON: Long story short, I was a broker that sold apartment buildings for six years, got kind of restless and bored.
JON: I became the top conventional guy in my office.
JON: I wanted to start my own company.
JON: I got the opportunity to take over my office.
JON: I did August 4th of 08.
JON: And then the market crashed in September.
JON: My office was just flattened from that horrible time.
JON: Over six years, I grew my office to one of the most profitable offices, top line, bottom line.
JON: I grew to 45 agents, 60 some people was on the CEO Advisory Committee, a national and regional trainer.
JON: But after six years of that, I just wanted more.
JON: I wasn’t fulfilled and I wanted to start my own business.
JON: So what I did then was ended up had an opportunity to go in house for a year and help restructure a 50 year old company.
JON: I did that and then started my company.
JON: The Jon Dwoskin Experience.
JON: And then I work with solopreneurs to Fortune 100 companies and everything in between all over the world and coach them to get unstuck and grow them.
JON: I work with CEO, C-level execs, leadership teams, managers, salespeople, and I love it.
PAULA: Lovely to hear somebody so fulfilled, Jon.
PAULA: It’s not often many people love their work as much as you do.
JON: I love it.
JON: Yeah.
PAULA: So when did you decide, I suppose, that a content strategy, because, you know, I looked on your site and I can see in, let’s go in increasing order.
PAULA: I saw 127 blog posts, 178 Forbes contributions.
PAULA: I know you’re on the Forbes Coaches Council, 416 videos, which is extraordinary.
PAULA: But audio is the top format that you use.
PAULA: And as you talked about your experience with them, with Brian Tracy, actually, and his content, it really reminded me that I’m a believer in listening to learn.
PAULA: And it’s the reason I think that I find podcasting so powerful.
PAULA: But again, to make this relevant for people who are listening, who are probably running, you know, massive multi-million member loyalty programs, probably for, you know, like clients of yours.
PAULA: You know, they run, you know, points programs, earn and burn programs.
PAULA: So a podcast is probably the furthest thing from their mind.
PAULA: But to me, it drives a loyal experience.
PAULA: So I know that if I talk to somebody who listens to my show, and I know you have this experience as well, the host and the listener have a very special emotional connection.
PAULA: So am I alone in feeling that or is that maybe why you’re such a prolific podcaster?
JON: You know, I am a big content provider and I am an auditory person, so I learn through in that medium.
JON: And I heard a stat a long time ago that one 30 second video is equivalent to 3.5 million words read.
JON: Yeah.
JON: And so when I heard that, it was kind of in alignment with how I how I kind of learn.
JON: And what I like about podcasts, our podcasts are real time.
JON: And so I’m talking to somebody in real time.
JON: And for me, I can showcase my ability to coach, talk because I don’t prepare any questions.
JON: Yeah, I don’t I don’t do really any research on my guests until I about a couple of minutes before I talk to them.
PAULA: Sure.
JON: Because I I want it to be as organic and real for the listener as it is for me in that moment.
JON: That’s the energy that I want.
JON: And so I never know what I’m going to ask.
JON: And then my questions come from how the person responds.
JON: Because it’s what I tell people is people say, oh, I study and I do so much research.
JON: And I do none, because if I was meeting you for coffee, Paula, I’m not really doing research on you and preparing questions to ask you.
JON: Yeah, I’m getting to know you.
JON: That’s how I build rapport.
JON: That’s how I build relationship, you know, relationships with people.
JON: And so I treat my I treat my podcast the same way.
JON: I have a team that does the whole back end.
JON: I do the interview and then they do everything else.
JON: And they have a whole kind of system set up which we can talk about.
PAULA: Yeah.
JON: But to me, podcasting is a great way for people to learn in real time.
JON: And I look at my podcast, Think Business.
JON: I have I have two past podcasts I did.
JON: The Seven Minute Sales Minute, which has about 130 episodes with a buddy of mine, which was all sales, which was great.
JON: And we we stopped that one in December.
JON: It just kind of ran its course.
JON: I did a podcast to compliment my book, The Think Big Movement, which is downloadable, the book for free on my site.
JON: And then I did about 70 episodes or so.
JON: Wow.
JON: And and and my but my but my podcast, I look like I what I what I wanted to look like is a Netflix channel.
JON: And so there’s OK, there’s different kind of shows that I have.
JON: Like I have coffee with John in the morning and I have my noon lives.
JON: And I have daily tips and I take interviews like this one.
JON: And I’ll put this hopefully if you let me on my platform.
PAULA: Sure.
JON: And I have people who ask me questions, kind of Q&A.
JON: And so I look at myself kind of like a media company.
JON: And I think that’s the greatest way to look at it from a podcast standpoint, because if I’m a media company, then I have different ways of hitting people’s senses on how they are going to connect with me.
JON: Some are auditory, some are visual, some are kinesthetic.
JON: And podcasts and video is the best way to hit all of those senses, because no matter what, how good we are as marketers, I don’t know what percentage of those senses you are.
PAULA: Of course.
JON: But if I give it in all different avenues and I give enough content that can hit multiple senses, then people can come to my site, kind of like Netflix station, and they can kind of get what they want and how they want to get it.
PAULA: OK, OK.
PAULA: Well, that’s a good business tip alone, Jon, I think, you know, is literally to meet people where they’re at and to, you know, to satisfy all learning types.
PAULA: And because I’m guilty of not doing video, for example, I dabbled for a little while and I found it quite distracting.
PAULA: And I just felt that there was a purity about audio.
PAULA: And I also then had a guest on my show who really amazed me because it was probably the most unexpected use of podcasts.
PAULA: And it was actually a beauty company down in Australia, a public company, and to me, again, a beauty brand would be purely video.
PAULA: And I know you’re a fan of video content as well.
PAULA: But to me, the fact that they were podcasting about skin care and beauty was quite unexpected because it’s just not visual, but by definition.
PAULA: So to me, it’s just it has that extraordinary capability to build a connection.
PAULA: And I think you’re right.
PAULA: We need to appeal to all of the different senses.
PAULA: But do you think there is something, again, going back to your Brian Tracy experience, is there something that builds a connection, you think, in audio form that feels different in some way?
JON: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, all of my podcasts are in audio form.
JON: OK, all of them.
JON: So I do video and audio.
JON: I mean, all of my podcasts that I do, all my lives, everything is all on is is on every social media or every platform.
JON: You know, that is that is available.
JON: OK, so so, yeah, so I mean, I’m on everything, you know, as far as, you know, my podcasts are all put on everything that I do on, you know, Apple, Google, I heart Spotify, Stitcher, Audible, Deezer, Amazon Music, Castro, Pocket Cast, you know, they’re all.
PAULA: Yeah.
JON: So people people can choose how they want to experience my content, whether it’s, you know, whether it’s video and because the, you know, the trends right now on the Internet are, people don’t read, they skim, yes, and people don’t want people don’t watch video.
JON: They watch the they don’t listen to the video.
JON: They watch the video and read the captions.
PAULA: You’re right.
PAULA: Absolutely.
PAULA: I’ve noticed.
JON: And so and so, however, people want to do it, if they want to go to my social media site, my website, I to, you know, iTunes, Google, it doesn’t it doesn’t matter to me, you know, my team, you know, distributed distributed on on on all platforms.
PAULA: OK, OK.
PAULA: Now, I know as well from my research, because I do a little bit of research, I do know that you’re a qualified speaker, Jon.
PAULA: So, you know, this obviously comes very naturally to you.
PAULA: You seem super comfortable.
PAULA: And again, after a thousand shows, how could you not be?
PAULA: But if there are people listening and again, like me, perhaps a couple of years ago, who’ve never been trained to speak.
PAULA: And like, do you think it’s something that is an accessible type of format to get into?
PAULA: Or would you recommend people go into training courses or listen to shows like yours, for example?
PAULA: What do you think is the best approach if they’re interested in this idea?
JON: Yeah, I think preparation.
JON: You know, I mean, anytime I do a keynote, for example, it requires a ton of preparation.
PAULA: Sure.
JON: You know, so and so by the time, you know, by the time I get up to speak, it may look like I’m kind of talking off the cuff or casually bringing something up.
JON: But the amount of preparation is tremendous.
JON: You know, because you have to, you know, when I do a keynote, for example, a company will call me and say, hey, we want you to do a keynote.
JON: And this is what we want you to do a keynote on.
JON: And then we kind of strategize.
JON: And then I say, OK, but now I want you I need you to give me the name of up to 10 people who are going to be in that room for the keynote.
JON: And then I and then I call all 10 of those people.
JON: Because for me, I’m able then to customize, because after about five people, the messages, the themes repeat themselves, what people want to walk away with.
JON: Because what the company thinks the people want to hear is sometimes, if not always, a smidge different than the people in the room want to hear and take away.
JON: So I need to get I need to kind of dilute the corporate message and get the message of the people of what they want.
JON: And then I customize my keynote specifically with the energy of who is going to be in the room.
JON: Then I create my talk and then I create my deck.
JON: So it complements my presentation is very kind of visual and kind of takes people on an experience.
JON: And so I create these kind of custom workbook presentations that are not very complicated, but they’re so simple they may look complicated because they support my messages.
JON: So I may be talking about one thing and then have an image behind me that supports what I’m talking about.
JON: Yeah, but just so it kind of takes people through kind of the journey I want them to kind of experience.
JON: And so and then I’m practicing and practicing and practicing.
JON: And then I always get to a keynote early so I can meet a lot of people and connect energetically with the people and the room.
JON: And hear what they’re talking about before I get up on stage.
JON: OK, and so it’s a process of nothing I do is canned.
JON: So it’s not like I say, OK, I’ll do a presentation on this.
JON: And then it’s not how the DNA of how I like to work.
JON: OK, I like to work with really kind of giving people in a somewhat of an interactive, experiential, where everybody in that room feels like I’m talking to them or a majority of the people.
JON: I’m not perfect.
JON: I feel like, OK, I walked away with something that I needed to walk away with to to to make to get deeper into the potential of myself and and and get one percent more courage and do something more effectively than I did before I heard you.
PAULA: OK, I like that one percent more courage.
JON: Yeah, yeah, I think I think that’s what holds a lot of people back is lack of courage.
PAULA: Oh, I totally agree, Jon.
PAULA: Yeah, and and and both equally, I would say, in fact, probably more so for the stage speaking.
PAULA: And I did hear a colleague of mine describing it because he would do a lot of example training.
PAULA: And he said he almost sees like he’s being paid to credentialize himself.
PAULA: So from a marketing perspective, actually.
PAULA: So for me, actually, I totally do agree with that.
PAULA: One thing before I podcast it, if that’s a word before I started podcasting, the most effective marketing I ever did for Paul Thomas as a brand was stand on stage exactly as you’ve said, and share whatever it is that I feel that the audience wants to learn.
PAULA: And clearly you’re much more experienced than I am, for example, at doing that.
PAULA: For some reason, though, it seems like podcasting feels more intuitive.
PAULA: You’re taking a different approach and building thought leadership in a very different way.
PAULA: So how would you describe almost the difference as a marketeer between all of the preparation and planning of a staged event versus showing up?
PAULA: And I know it’s five days a week, Jon, that the Think Business podcast goes out, isn’t it?
JON: It’s seven days a week.
PAULA: Oh, my goodness.
PAULA: Yeah, that’s extraordinary.
JON: You know, it’s an interesting question, Paula, because, you know, in a podcast for mine, most of my podcasts are, you know, interview format.
JON: OK.
JON: And the intuitiveness comes because, you know, I’ll ask somebody a question, like you’re asking me a question, they answer it like you’re doing.
JON: And then the next question comes out, that’s an interesting comment.
JON: Tell me more about X or take me here.
JON: Or it’s a consistent rhythm and cadence of diving deeper, deeper, deeper.
JON: That’s why the way that I do a keynote is that’s why I talk to 10 people.
PAULA: Gotcha.
JON: Because I can get the questions that they’re asking.
JON: I can get intuitively into it.
JON: It’s not the same because it’s not as back and forth interactive.
JON: You’re up there talking for anywhere from, you know, let’s just say 20 to 60 minutes.
JON: And so I think you need to make it interactive.
JON: I do my best to kind of bring in the audience when I can.
JON: But I think one of the key things is the way you actually start a keynote.
JON: I just want to touch on that real quickly because I think a lot of people, I think a lot of times people will come and say, you know, they’ll think they need to start, especially for beginners.
JON: Hi, my name is such and such.
JON: Here’s my credentials.
JON: Here’s my this.
JON: The people don’t want to hear that.
JON: Like if you’re there, you obviously have the credentials and somebody will introduce you.
JON: Yeah, you want to really start off with a question that brings out pain in the audience that you know they’re having.
JON: And so and so, for example, if I’m starting a keynote, I may start with I’m making this up right now just because it’s on the spot, but I may start off with, you know, studies or I may start off with this.
JON: This is not made up.
JON: Studies show that that by the year 2030, 85 percent of the jobs that exist do not exist today as we sit here on July 12th, 2021.
PAULA: Sure.
JON: So the question I have for all of you is how are you planning to reinvent yourself?
PAULA: Love it.
JON: How are you planning to grow your skill set?
JON: And where is the one area in your life and in your business that you need to increase your courage one percent and increase your initiative one percent?
JON: So you can keep up with this pace of change.
JON: I’m going to give everybody 30 seconds, and I want you to write down one thing.
JON: You know, you see what I’m saying?
JON: So it’s like I’m making it interactive.
JON: I’m bringing out the worry, the pain, and now I’m helping them build the solution.
JON: Right.
JON: So I want you, you all have the capabilities of doing it, but I want you to be in real time with this, not hear about this stat in 2027 when it’s too late.
PAULA: Very good point.
JON: You can do one.
JON: Then I try to quantify it.
JON: So if you can do, I’m kind of, you know, compressing right now.
JON: But if you can do the one thing for two minutes a day, minimum three, four or five days a week for the next, it’s two thousand nine years.
JON: Raise your hand if you think you’ll be more innovative and more and ready to conquer whatever change is in front of us that we can or can’t see by show of hands.
PAULA: Which is also super effective, Jon, I’ve seen that.
JON: You see what I’m saying?
PAULA: Yeah.
JON: So that’s how I want to that’s how I’m beginning a keynote where a lot of times I think people wait till the end.
JON: They don’t care about me.
JON: They know if I’m on stage, I’m there because somebody right.
JON: Or I may start and say, I had the pleasure of talking to ten of you, an eclectic group of ten of you, as I was preparing for this keynote.
JON: And here were the top two questions that came out of that.
JON: Here are the here’s the number one concern that I heard as a collective of everybody in this room.
JON: Now, I’m not going to ask you to raise your hand, but this is, you know, boom, boom, boom.
JON: And then I’m taking them to the pain.
JON: I’m giving them the solution.
JON: And then I’m giving them a plan of growth.
JON: My goal is always in my podcast, in my business, in my keynotes, everything that I do.
JON: My goal is very simple.
JON: I want to give people a space for stillness so they can raise their awareness.
JON: And that’s when change begins.
JON: OK, not before.
PAULA: OK, yeah.
PAULA: Well, that’s pretty powerful, Jon, because I think most of us don’t take the time.
PAULA: And maybe the pandemic, you know, or maybe your statistic, for example, does create that almost shock factor to say, you know what, things are changing.
PAULA: And certainly, I suppose that’s probably why I feel most passionate for, again, loyalty professionals listening to this show are extremely busy.
PAULA: Like all of us, they’re running these extraordinary programs.
PAULA: But what’s the step change?
PAULA: How can they communicate differently?
PAULA: Because I really believe that that’s a gap.
PAULA: You know, we all do our email campaigns and we all do our blog posts, and there’s so much work that we’re doing.
PAULA: But again, a powerful speaker in whatever format.
PAULA: And I can hear the power of what I’ve just learned from you.
PAULA: So thank you for teaching me that.
PAULA: And I know the difference if a speaker comes on stage and doesn’t introduce themselves and actually gets into something that matters to me.
PAULA: So I love what you’re teaching.
PAULA: I also love your tagline, by the way, because it’s probably something I struggle with, this whole concept of thinking big.
PAULA: Do you want to quickly talk about that, Ben, as one of our topics?
JON: You know, thinking big to me is about doing small things every day that compound to your big.
JON: That’s thinking big to me.
JON: And so to think big takes initiative every day to do the small things, because the small things seem really big in the moment.
PAULA: That’s true.
JON: To do that one thing every day, to be consistent, to be predictable, to do that one little thing is a big step.
JON: And so it’s so simple, it can be complicated.
JON: And that’s what thinking big is.
JON: And it’s all about compounding the small things to get to your big.
JON: That’s how you get unstuck.
JON: You stay consistent and you lower the bar to make sure you can be consistent instead of overshooting your goals and then burning yourself out.
JON: Better to do one thing every day than try to do 50 things once a month.
PAULA: Totally.
PAULA: And I love the point about consistency, Jon, because when I was again starting out podcasting, the statistic actually that probably scared me the most was one that said that 90% of podcasts never make it past seven episodes.
JON: Oh, really?
PAULA: Yes, exactly.
PAULA: So I got to episode eight and broke out the champagne.
PAULA: There we go.
PAULA: Great.
PAULA: Well, listen, Jon, I have learned an extraordinary amount from you already today.
JON: Thank you.
PAULA: I think you’re proving the power of podcasting.
PAULA: What would you say to loyalty professionals who are listening to this and may have their curiosity peaked?
PAULA: I think obviously as a business coach, we’ll make sure they know where to find you.
PAULA: But first of all, on the podcasting piece and then on the business and mindset piece.
JON: Do something.
JON: Take action.
JON: Stop talking about it.
JON: Stop polishing the rock.
JON: Take action and do it.
JON: You got to jump in and do it.
JON: Stop giving yourself excuses.
JON: Stop pretending to be confused.
JON: Just do it.
JON: There’s lots of people.
JON: They can call you.
JON: They can call me.
JON: There’s lots of people that can give you the plan to do it.
JON: So take action.
JON: Otherwise, in my belief, you will look back with regret that you didn’t do it sooner.
JON: You’ve got to start building that audience, and you’ve got to start building that consistency today.
PAULA: Wonderful.
PAULA: Wonderful.
PAULA: So where can people find you, Jon?
JON: Sure.
JON: My cell phone is 248-535-7796.
JON: They can call anytime or text me.
JON: Email john at johndwoskin.com, and my website is johndwoskin.com.
JON: And from that, you can get to all my stuff.
PAULA: Wonderful.
PAULA: Well, I’ll make sure we link to all of that in the show notes as well.
PAULA: So, Jon Dwoskin from Let’s Talk Loyalty.
PAULA: Thank you so much.
PAULA: It’s been a joy.
JON: Thank you so much, Paul.
JON: I appreciate you and everybody’s time.
JON: Thanks for having me on the show.
PAULA: This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketeer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research.
PAULA: The Wise Marketeer also offers loyalty marketing training through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 170 executives in 20 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.
PAULA: For more information, check out thewisemarketeer.com and loyaltyacademy.org.
PAULA: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
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