Winning Over the Fickle Customer: Marigold CMO Ashley Deibert shares insights from the 2025 Consumer Trends Index (#650)

PAULA: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

PAULA: Today’s episode is part of the Wiser Loyalty Series and is hosted by Bill Hanifin, Chief Executive Officer of The Wise Marketer Group.

PAULA: The Wise Marketer Group is a media, education and advisory services company, providing resources for loyalty marketeers through The Wise Marketer Digital Publication and the Loyalty Academy Program that offers the Certified Loyalty Marketing Professional or CLMP designation.

PAULA: I hope you enjoyed this episode brought to you by Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV in partnership with The Wise Marketer Group.

BILL: Hello everyone, I’m Bill Hanifin, the Managing Editor of The Wise Marketer and I’m pleased to bring you another episode of Wiser Loyalty, an interview series created in collaboration with Let’s Talk Loyalty.

BILL: Our guest today is Ashley Deibert, who is Chief Marketing Officer at Marigold.

BILL: Ashley, how are you?

ASHLEY: Hi Bill, how are you?

BILL: Good.

BILL: Welcome.

ASHLEY: Thank you.

ASHLEY: I’m so excited to be here.

BILL: Good.

BILL: Yeah, this will be fun.

BILL: I’m really interested to dive into the report, the research you’ve just issued plus just learned a little bit about you and found out about what you have on your mind is a CMO, which is always fascinating.

BILL: So but first of I want to just introduce you so people have a little bit of background about you.

BILL: And so Ashley leads marketing for Marigold as the chief marketing officer.

BILL: As I said, overseeing global go to market strategy, enhancing brand positioning and expanding the company’s presence in multiple markets, including North America, Latin America, EMEA, APAC and Japan.

BILL: So that’s that’s a lot of responsibility.

ASHLEY: Pretty much the whole world.

BILL: I was going to say, what did we leave out?

BILL: So before joining Marigold, Ashley had held significant leadership positions in the ad tech and martech space, notably serving as CMO of Piano Software and Senior Vice President of Global Marketing at GrapeShot.

BILL: So she’s had a pretty broad array of experience and she has built a reputation and recognized for her ability to overhaul marketing infrastructure, to define go to market strategy and to scale multimillion dollar growth globally.

BILL: So valuable commodity that we’ve got here on the other side of the screen today.

BILL: And Ashley also is a Wolverine, got her bachelor of science and marketing from University of Michigan.

BILL: And she was named one of Business Insider’s top CMOs in 2022.

BILL: So that’s incredibly impressive.

BILL: But so welcome again.

ASHLEY: It always helps to have a good PR team behind you.

BILL: It’s definitely well written.

BILL: That’s right.

ASHLEY: That’s right.

ASHLEY: Thank you so much.

ASHLEY: I’m really glad to be here.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

ASHLEY: I’ve spent a lot of time on airplanes.

ASHLEY: That’s what that’s what I take away from my bio.

BILL: That’s right.

BILL: So we could probably consult you on the frequent flyer topic.

ASHLEY: Exactly.

ASHLEY: I’m sure I’m going to sneak in that topic here and there today since we’re going to be talking about loyalty.

BILL: Exactly.

BILL: Right.

BILL: You can tell us who it works and what doesn’t.

ASHLEY: Exactly.

BILL: Yeah.

BILL: So one of the customary things we always do in these Wiser Loyalty series, it’s a Paul Thomas favorite, is to ask a question of all of our guests and that is, what is your favorite non-fiction book and why?

BILL: So I hope I didn’t surprise you with that.

BILL: But do you have one?

ASHLEY: I do.

ASHLEY: Although I have to admit that I don’t read as much as I should.

ASHLEY: Despite all the airplane travel I do, I find myself working and snapping.

ASHLEY: But that being said, definitely a book that I have come back to year over year is called The First 90 Days.

ASHLEY: The author is Michael Watkins.

ASHLEY: Don’t know if you’ve read it, but I recommend it to a wide array of folks no matter where they’re at in their career.

ASHLEY: Basically, it’s critical strategies for early wins and alignment when you’re taking on a new role, a new leadership position, entering a new company.

ASHLEY: Honestly, even if you just read like the Cliff Notes, you would get the gist of it.

ASHLEY: But for me, I leverage it as pitfalls to avoid as a leader, how to get people on board when you’re entering a new organization.

ASHLEY: Because it’s a transition for both parties.

ASHLEY: When I came to Marigold, which I know we’re going to talk a lot about today, but when I came there, I inherited a team of about 50 marketers.

ASHLEY: They were rocking along doing their thing, and here I come as a new person.

ASHLEY: I think it’s good to understand both your side of what you’re trying to achieve as a leader, but also how the organization might be feeling or perceiving you.

ASHLEY: It’s a great read.

ASHLEY: It’s not a difficult read.

ASHLEY: It’s definitely a book to keep on your shelf and revisit time over time.

ASHLEY: You can buy it on the Amazon right now for like 16 bucks.

ASHLEY: It’s a great read.

BILL: It’s going to be on my Kindle at the end of the day.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

ASHLEY: There you go.

ASHLEY: Very good recommendation.

ASHLEY: I’m still an old-fashioned gal.

ASHLEY: I go for the hard and the soft cover books.

ASHLEY: I never want to do it.

BILL: You know what?

BILL: I’m never going to give up my paper.

BILL: I love to have a book in my hand, but there’s also a limit of how much I can carry or how many books I can stack up on my shelf.

ASHLEY: Yeah, absolutely.

BILL: Soon I’ll need a bigger house if I keep buying books.

BILL: Hey, tell us, I did a little introduction, but just to set a little bit of background.

BILL: I’d love to know how you came into your role at Marigold and what your mission is today.

BILL: What does it look like to be Ashley Deibert as CMO at Marigold?

ASHLEY: It’s busy, but fun.

ASHLEY: There’s not really too crazy of a story there, a good old-fashioned recruiter.

ASHLEY: Marigold is a private equity-owned organization, and the private equity firm actually reached out to me.

ASHLEY: The most interesting part about it is that Marigold has been going through a transition over the last year.

ASHLEY: A new CEO, Mike Gordon, entered the business and so we’ve had some changes in leadership, which has all been really fun and positive.

ASHLEY: It was actually one of the reasons why I was excited to join the organization because I saw where they had been and where they were going.

ASHLEY: Marigold is made up of a lot of mergers and acquisitions of really incredible brands in the messaging, loyalty and personalization space.

ASHLEY: And bringing those all together under one house is definitely an interesting mission and one that takes very specifically curated leadership.

ASHLEY: So that was one of the, that’s how I came to be.

ASHLEY: That’s one of the reasons why I joined.

ASHLEY: And my mission is to, well, there’s, there’s a lot of things to do.

ASHLEY: So we’ll start with the top three.

ASHLEY: Number one right now for me is really both raising and defining the brand awareness of Marigold.

ASHLEY: As I was saying, Marigold is made up of several different properties.

ASHLEY: Artists formerly known as Cheetah Digital, Sail Through, Sellagent, Campaign Monitor, EMEA, Live Clicker, Future, the list goes on.

ASHLEY: And so, I’m coming, I actually came from a world, my previous company of piano was much under the same umbrella where we were made up of mergers and acquisitions.

ASHLEY: And that’s a special brand mission that you have to take on as a CMO because you want to preserve the integrity of the brands that you hold under your organization, but you also need to move forward and help the world understand what Marigold is defining themselves as now.

ASHLEY: So, that’s been 100% top of mind.

ASHLEY: There’s a lot of areas already in the works around that, including kind of leveling up our brand and kind of rewriting what we stand for.

ASHLEY: So, that’s fun.

ASHLEY: You know, a marketer’s job is really to support revenue growth.

ASHLEY: And we have, as you outlined, many different markets that we serve.

ASHLEY: And as I just outlined, many different products that we can put into those markets.

ASHLEY: So, defining our priorities in terms of where we’re going to support the revenue growth is critical.

ASHLEY: And how we go to market is also critical.

ASHLEY: And between those two things, I’m looking to get as creative as possible with how we get our message out there.

ASHLEY: And so, honestly, my mission here is to take some chances and some risks and do some cool things.

ASHLEY: I don’t think as a B2B marketer, we have to always follow the same roadmaps that were laid out before us.

ASHLEY: So, that’s kind of like, those are like my top two priorities.

ASHLEY: I’ve got a great team.

ASHLEY: I’m hiring.

ASHLEY: I’m promoting people and reshaping the team.

ASHLEY: So, that’s what I’ve been up to.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

BILL: Yeah, that’s exciting.

BILL: That’s exciting.

BILL: I can tell you from being in the industry for a while that you can’t always assume that everybody’s read all the press releases of the acquisitions and just is tracking with you.

BILL: So, now suddenly they, maybe they knew Cheetah Digital in the past and now you assume that they know what Marigold is about.

BILL: So, that’s a big job for you to communicate and to make sure people understand.

ASHLEY: Number one rule as a marketer is never assume people have heard your message.

ASHLEY: You cannot tell people enough times and in many different ways.

ASHLEY: So, yeah, absolutely.

BILL: Yeah.

BILL: So, if you had to sum up the brand promise today at Marigold, what would that sound like?

ASHLEY: I mean, at the end of the day, we’re here to deliver relevant experience, help our clients deliver relevant experiences to their audiences.

ASHLEY: It’s pretty straightforward and simple.

ASHLEY: We believe that we are fully equipped to do that because of our collective experience across all these different brands and solutions that now are under Marigold.

ASHLEY: We really are the experts in creating customer loyalties.

ASHLEY: So we’ve done this for many years.

ASHLEY: We continue to do it.

ASHLEY: So that’s our mission.

ASHLEY: Yeah, that’s our promise.

BILL: That’s good.

BILL: That’s good.

BILL: I’ve heard from a number of people in similar positions to yours that are talking about how consumers are probably more loyal to brands and more loyal to experiences, not programs per se.

ASHLEY: So exactly.

BILL: Yeah, you’re pressing it in the right areas.

BILL: So yeah, this research, when I really do this research that you have, this 2025 Consumer Trends Index is right on target to helping you unlocks some of that, right?

BILL: And continue to understand how consumers tick.

BILL: And from my reading of it, it offered this kind of insights across multiple dimensions of what I could call cross-channel marketing.

BILL: Like it explores how brands create relevant marketing experiences and how you can turn people into, let’s say, fickle from fickle to faithful.

BILL: So it’s always a moving target, isn’t it?

BILL: To figure out what drives purchase decision.

BILL: And one of the things that I saw in the report, and we’re going to dig in in a second, was like the results are pretty clear.

BILL: It seemed like the consumers want authentic relationships.

BILL: Interesting, right?

BILL: Almost like, yeah, us as people, they wanted to engage meaningfully across multiple channels.

BILL: The ones that they like most.

BILL: And then they wanted to create experiences that felt personalized.

BILL: And but the personalization has to be balanced with some level of respect.

BILL: So I guess you can run people up against the border of their tolerance of privacy boundaries, you know, but not not cross that.

BILL: So, I mean, there was so much in this report that I saw that went from the impact of the AI to the drivers of brand loyalty.

BILL: But what caught my attention right at the beginning was you talked about you.

BILL: You had findings on the impact of the uncertain economy on the way people are thinking and how their purchases is.

BILL: Could we start there?

BILL: Could you talk about that a little bit?

ASHLEY: Absolutely.

ASHLEY: Yeah, I mean, I think what we saw in the report, and by the way, this was like the first piece of content that I got to read when I joined the organization because it was in the behind the scenes production when I joined.

ASHLEY: So for me, it was such a great, like, eye opener to where things were to help me kind of think about my own marketing strategies.

ASHLEY: So I was so excited to get this out into the world as quickly as possible.

ASHLEY: But anyways, I think the economic pressure stuff is kind of obvious, right?

ASHLEY: I don’t think anybody’s surprised.

ASHLEY: This is unfortunately where we’re at in the world.

ASHLEY: Interest rates and mortgages are still high.

ASHLEY: Buying a home has never been tougher for this generation of first-time home buyers.

ASHLEY: Groceries are expensive.

ASHLEY: I was at the grocery store yesterday and they were like, we’re trying to keep the prices of our eggs competitive.

ASHLEY: Please don’t take more than 10 at a time.

ASHLEY: Life just got expensive.

ASHLEY: But in a strange way, I think that this actually presents an opportunity for brands to think differently about loyalty.

ASHLEY: Because life isn’t stopping no matter the economy.

ASHLEY: But maybe it’s just that we need to think differently about how we purchase, who we purchase from, how often, why.

ASHLEY: So I think it’s there’s a lot of this.

ASHLEY: There’s going to be a lot of discussion around the importance of value.

BILL: Okay.

ASHLEY: That I keep coming back to.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

BILL: Okay.

BILL: So that’s what I was going to ask you.

BILL: So the uncertain economy is making people feel, they’re maybe just changing the priority of considerations that they have.

BILL: But what did you find in there?

BILL: What findings did you have about the importance of price versus value, versus convenience, what were the drivers of this purchase decision that you saw?

ASHLEY: I mean, we saw that, I think it was something like almost 75% of our respondents, that they value the quality of the brand’s product and or services over the price.

ASHLEY: So that’s just to say, in our survey, people were not just saying, oh, I’m only going to buy things on price.

ASHLEY: So what I took from this is no matter the economy or how different age groups buy because we do segment a lot of our responses by age cohorts in the report, I still think the old adage is true, you pay for what you get.

ASHLEY: And it’s really important, I think, as a brand to understand where you draw the line between kind of price versus the value you offer, right?

ASHLEY: Too low and your brand can be perceived as cheap, too high and not able to actually deliver on the value or the status that your brand should hold in the mind of the buyer and you also lose.

ASHLEY: People don’t buy Louis Vuitton bags because they are the highest quality bag in the world.

ASHLEY: It’s because they have set a standard of luxury.

ASHLEY: And it’s a status symbol, you know, right?

ASHLEY: The economy may have pressure, but I went to Louis Vuitton, I was walking by Louis Vuitton in Paris a few months ago in the line without the door, you know, so the buyers are still there.

ASHLEY: People are still doing the things that they want to do, but we can’t always just succumb to like price pressure just because of the economic pressure.

ASHLEY: Right.

ASHLEY: I think there was two other things that came up in the report that are, you know, secondary and tertiary to the price point, but still important.

ASHLEY: Convenience and service.

ASHLEY: That also was ranking above price in the purchase decisions.

ASHLEY: And I can also personally attest to this one.

ASHLEY: I recently remodeled a bathroom in my home.

ASHLEY: So, you know, you’re remodeling bathroom, you’re ordering lots of things from lots of different places.

ASHLEY: And I took forever to find this beautiful little shelf that needed to go in there.

ASHLEY: And the shelf got lost.

ASHLEY: One of the major carriers that’s supposed to carry it from point A to point B lost it.

ASHLEY: And so I reached out to this very well-known retailer who I just messaged him on their chat.

ASHLEY: I said, hey, I think my order is lost.

ASHLEY: And their response was, unexpectedly, well, you need to contact the carrier and report the item is lost.

ASHLEY: And I was like, I was actually hoping that you would just do that for me and refill my order.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

ASHLEY: But I say that because now I have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth about that brand.

ASHLEY: And they still haven’t fulfilled and fixed my order.

ASHLEY: So look, I’m not canceling that brand, but that whole like kind of convenience and service thing is a very, very real factor.

ASHLEY: Because when I was shopping for that shelf, I wasn’t really shopping based on price.

ASHLEY: I was shopping for something that fit my space, my decor style and a brand that I thought could deliver.

ASHLEY: So I’m not saying that brands have to be perfect and deliver 10 out of 10 on service every time.

ASHLEY: But I do think that they have to be very mindful that that is a brand perception and experience that consumers think about when they are transacting with you.

BILL: It shows that they care and that’s the basis for establishing trust in the relationship.

ASHLEY: A hundred percent.

ASHLEY: I’m so glad you said that because really, what’s the basis of any relationship?

ASHLEY: I’m like person to person, consumer to brand.

ASHLEY: It’s trust and communication.

ASHLEY: It is.

BILL: Absolutely.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

ASHLEY: Do you feel like-

BILL: Go ahead.

BILL: No, go ahead.

ASHLEY: I was going to say the third one that came up because it just related to what we’re talking about, was around reputation and ethics.

ASHLEY: I think we can’t almost go by a week or two without seeing a story where a brand fumbles and people start to view that brand as something that they don’t want to be associated with.

ASHLEY: Now, I’m not a big fan of cancel culture, so we don’t need to go down that rabbit hole.

ASHLEY: But I do think that about half of our respondents said that brand reputation was a very important factor to them.

ASHLEY: They want to be affiliated with the brands and the people that represent those brands only if it matches their own values, right?

BILL: Interesting.

BILL: So as a marketer, do you feel like there’s more opportunity when you have the findings in the order that they are?

BILL: I mean, if we were price-oriented, then you’re a little bit vectoring towards something where you don’t have too much control.

BILL: You need to drive to that lowest price.

BILL: But when people are valuing value, convenience, those sort of things, reputation, then that gives you some opportunity to differentiate, I would think.

ASHLEY: Oh, I think 100%.

ASHLEY: And again, I don’t think I’m saying anything that people don’t inherently know.

ASHLEY: Some of this is common sense.

ASHLEY: But I think it’s hard.

ASHLEY: As a marketer, as a brand in general, when times get tough, the natural reaction is to go, well, how can I just be cheaper than the other guy?

ASHLEY: And so, again, the idea of being able to hold value with your brand in the mind of the consumer is not a sprint.

ASHLEY: That is 100% a marathon.

ASHLEY: But I think that there’s things that brands can be doing along the way, along each mile of that marathon that helps them keep up that value point in the mind of their buyer.

ASHLEY: And, you know, there’s also opportunity if you do lose a consumer because of a price point and that other brand cannot deliver on that, to win them back with value as well.

ASHLEY: So it’s not over till it’s over, I guess is what I say, you know.

BILL: That’s good.

BILL: So there’s some indication that people are forgiving, that they’re willing to…

ASHLEY: Absolutely.

BILL: Yeah.

ASHLEY: Absolutely.

ASHLEY: Okay.

ASHLEY: Good.

BILL: So, all right.

BILL: So channels are fascinating to me because so, believe it or not, I was on a call last night, late last night, because we were talking to people in Hong Kong and elsewhere.

BILL: And somebody made the comment that the inbox is dead.

BILL: This was in the context of a conversation about AI.

BILL: And so listen to this.

BILL: It was I felt sort of suddenly ancient if I wasn’t jumping on this train.

BILL: But they said your your inbox is going to be sort of managed by a layer of AI.

BILL: And no longer will you have to look at it.

BILL: It’ll just all be curated for you and given to you.

BILL: But I know people are using SMS a lot more for marketing purposes, probably emails importance.

BILL: People are going on social.

BILL: I mean, between TikTok and Instagram, probably there’s a lot of commerce that’s happening right there.

BILL: But what did the report tell you about the channels that people are valuing?

BILL: Where are they spending their time and taking the cues to make a purchase?

ASHLEY: I mean, I was personally surprised at this stat, but over half of our respondents said email.

ASHLEY: They made more purchases based on an email that they received than any other channel.

ASHLEY: Now, we do see SMS, mobile app alerts rising up in that.

ASHLEY: I mean, my theory is like the way that we’re engaging with it.

ASHLEY: I think about my phone, right?

ASHLEY: I’m getting multiple alerts a day on my phone, and those alerts come in the form of something from a mobile app, something sent to me as a text message, as well as email is functioning like an alert as well.

ASHLEY: I don’t think that it means that brands can just rest on one of those channels.

ASHLEY: Of course, multiple channel, cross channel marketing is still important, but the inbox is not dead yet.

ASHLEY: I mean, I feel like I’m having deja vu from like 20 years ago when people are like, radio is dead.

ASHLEY: You can’t advertise on radio.

ASHLEY: You’re not going to reach anybody through radio anymore.

ASHLEY: And guess what?

ASHLEY: It’s not.

ASHLEY: It’s not that serious.

ASHLEY: XM, Pandora, Spotify, they’re all very well and alive.

ASHLEY: And marketers are successfully advertising on those.

ASHLEY: So I think it’s true.

ASHLEY: I don’t like when people necessarily make those claims because it’s not that it’s just changing the way that we interact with things, changes, you know.

ASHLEY: And again, different cohorts of consumers operate differently with on the platforms that they are.

ASHLEY: No two consumers are alike.

ASHLEY: I mean, I personally, I use e-mail in a very specific way, which is I search it.

ASHLEY: So like if I see a mobile app alerts, I might go, oh yeah, I did want to buy something from that brand.

ASHLEY: Or yeah, I actually am in the market for a new pair of jeans.

ASHLEY: Let me go see if they sent me a promotion recently.

ASHLEY: And then I’ll take advantage of it.

ASHLEY: I actually tend to ignore SMS alerts myself personally, because it’s my form of communication with friends and coworkers.

ASHLEY: So it gets like too noisy for brands to like, put it in there.

ASHLEY: But anyways, so yeah, so we’re still seeing that this is definitely a viable channel.

ASHLEY: And I think it’s just we need to continue to evolve our use of it and our thinking around where it fits into the marketing mix.

BILL: Do you think that, or did you find anything, any evidence that would tell you that preference for email or SMS, did it vary by age group or did it vary by vertical market?

BILL: In other words, I’ll give you an example.

BILL: I might be more willing to entertain SMS messages from a QSR or a casual dining chain because somehow or another, I might be close to that experience and I don’t mind getting the message, but other types of businesses, maybe not so much.

BILL: But I don’t know, is there any evidence in there?

ASHLEY: I don’t have the stats at the top of my head about how the different age groups, we definitely did everything by age group.

ASHLEY: But I will say that we did dig into the types of messages people were open to receiving in these different channels based on what you’re just saying, the vertical or the brand type.

ASHLEY: One of the things that jumps out to me is that in general, like with retailers as an example, a lot of our respondents thought getting product recommendations based on previous search history, shopping history, etc.

ASHLEY: They actually thought that that was cool.

ASHLEY: Look, we’ve all been targeted by Instagram ads all day every day based on something we said or something we searched.

ASHLEY: But on the reverse, a lot of people thought that it was more creepy or a little uncomfortable to get like location-based targeting.

ASHLEY: So they didn’t love like, oh, and Chipotle does this with me.

ASHLEY: I’m a big Chipotle fan.

ASHLEY: I hate there a lot.

ASHLEY: Like, oh, we see that you’re in our store.

ASHLEY: They’re sending me a promotion.

ASHLEY: I personally don’t find that creepy because I’m a marketer and I understand what they’re doing.

ASHLEY: But a lot of people felt like they were like, no, that’s starting to cross the line for me.

BILL: So I’m cheating a little bit here.

BILL: I’ve got the research report open.

BILL: I was looking at some of the data here.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

BILL: I see that over half the people in the segments of people are really interested in, like 25 to 34, 35 to 44.

BILL: I mean, over half were responding to social media posts and social media ads.

BILL: So is that becoming a, I mean, I think we know from our own experience as consumers, but it’s becoming a really important channel, isn’t it?

BILL: For you to be in, you have to put it in your marketing mix.

ASHLEY: I mean, yeah, absolutely.

ASHLEY: And I personally think that we’ve found that, and I also, I own a small business with my husband, so we deploy social media ads.

ASHLEY: And what we’ve seen across the spectrum, whether you’re a small business or a large business, is that it’s all about the relevancy.

ASHLEY: Like people do not want things in their feed that they’re like, this has nothing to do with me.

ASHLEY: And, you know, all of those social media tools now have a way for you to just click on that ad and say, don’t show me this again.

ASHLEY: And then they ask you why.

ASHLEY: And one of the options, I don’t know the exact wording, is like, this isn’t relevant for me.

ASHLEY: And I just find that so interesting.

ASHLEY: What I do find that when you’re retargeting those messages to people who actually engaged with something or showed relevant signs or maybe intent to buy or show interest in your product, that’s when they’re more powerful.

ASHLEY: And frankly, you’re going to have a lot less waste on your ad spend if you’re focused more on people who have an intention or interest in buying versus just trying to shove it into everybody’s newsfeed based on a very high level cohort like age or location.

ASHLEY: So I think the important thing, and I preach this to my team as well, is the multiple channel approach.

ASHLEY: You cannot just rest on one and you also can’t ignore others as well, but as marketers too, we have to be leveraging data and strategy to think about where we’re making those investments and thinking about how our consumers are interacting across those different channels.

BILL: No, absolutely.

BILL: And there’s probably a compounding effect.

BILL: You know, when you might get that notification from the mobile app and then you might get a sort of reinforcing text message or something like that.

BILL: I think there’s…

BILL: I don’t know.

BILL: I don’t have anything statistically to support it, but I think there’s probably a greater impact at certain times when those channels are used in combination.

BILL: You even mentioned it with email and that, right?

ASHLEY: Yeah, absolutely.

ASHLEY: I mean, and even like enhancing the experience within those channels, you know, one of the tools that we have in these many tools in our toolkit at Marigold is we actually are able to personalize an email at the time that it’s opened.

ASHLEY: And I think this is so cool because like the best use case for this is, right?

ASHLEY: Because email is noisy, right?

ASHLEY: A lot of organizations are sending emails and people’s inboxes are cluttered.

ASHLEY: There’s no argument there.

ASHLEY: But let’s just use my Chipotle example again.

ASHLEY: If somebody opens the email to get a promotion and it’s a rainy day, you know, you can leverage the real-time weather to kind of make your marketing message related to that.

ASHLEY: Oh, come, it’s cold and rainy outside, come in and cozy up with a burrito and a bowl of soup.

ASHLEY: Versus if it’s a sunny day, you know, it’s like the patio is open.

ASHLEY: Come, come, enjoy, you know, our new, you know, so brands can can leverage.

ASHLEY: I think again, it’s like thinking about how do they leverage all of these different moments in time as well, because they even if it’s even if that person doesn’t end up coming in and buying the burrito on that day, getting hungry at this conversation.

ASHLEY: I think they also see that like this brand is trying.

ASHLEY: They get it, you know, they are thinking about where the consumer is.

ASHLEY: And I think that goes a long, long way to in the mind of a buyer, even if they don’t instantly make a purchase.

BILL: Yeah.

BILL: No, I think you’re right.

BILL: So just just for me, just because I’m sort of fascinated with things like this, the the customization you can make at the time of opening with its subject line.

BILL: And can you change copy in the body of the email as well?

BILL: Okay.

ASHLEY: So basically, it basically changes the content.

BILL: That’s powerful.

ASHLEY: You obviously have to have it loaded up ahead of time.

ASHLEY: But yeah, it’s kind of a if, if that if this then that situation maybe playing off a meta tag or something like that.

ASHLEY: Exactly.

BILL: Yeah, that’s that’s pretty neat.

BILL: It’s great.

BILL: So let’s talk about the big word of spend.

BILL: It seems like it’s been the big word of the year, personalization for a couple of years.

BILL: Right.

BILL: And now we have to.

ASHLEY: Many years, decades.

BILL: Many years.

BILL: Yeah, all the way back, somebody mentioned Don Pepper.

BILL: So all the way back to one to one marketing, I think when that first came around.

BILL: But and now we’re talking about, you can’t just say personalization.

BILL: It’s hyper personalization.

BILL: Preferably at scale.

BILL: But can you break it down?

BILL: Like, what’s the reality of personalization?

BILL: It’s essential, I guess, to really connect with people and drive a relationship.

BILL: But what are some do’s and don’ts?

BILL: And what did you learn from the report about personalization?

ASHLEY: Yeah.

ASHLEY: I mean, just to back up a little bit.

ASHLEY: Yes, this has been like a marketer’s holy grail for quite some time.

ASHLEY: You know, year 2010, I joined a company where we were talking about strategies for personalization, which have evolved quite a bit since then.

ASHLEY: But, you know, we still do see today brands struggling, for lack of a better word, just to do the basics of personalization, let alone, you know, scale it.

ASHLEY: So, and I think it’s been, it’s been an interesting journey, especially when it comes to marketers’ relationships with data and how we can use that data or not use that data.

ASHLEY: And I think that’s the big component here.

ASHLEY: So, you know, when we look into the report specifically, people are saying what I would have expected them to say, I’m fine sharing my data with you in exchange for a relevant experience.

ASHLEY: I’m not fine with you taking my data and using it however you want to.

ASHLEY: I mean, that’s an obvious one.

ASHLEY: Even though GDPR doesn’t exist in the US, we basically follow the rules or we should be following the rules because that’s just a bad brand experience, right?

ASHLEY: If you’re messaging people that didn’t give you consent.

ASHLEY: We were talking earlier about the use of that data to then target them with relevant offers, I think varies by the type of offer, the person, if it’s location-based or not.

ASHLEY: I think the overall takeaway is that consumers are welcoming of it.

ASHLEY: They want it.

ASHLEY: I don’t think that they expect you to know every data point about them, but they definitely don’t want to be mis-targeted with things that are just completely irrelevant to them.

ASHLEY: So, yeah, and I think that’s where the struggle has been is that there’s, like you think about just one single individual, how many different data points you could have on one person, that could factor in to the way that you would market to them, and multiply that by millions of people.

ASHLEY: It’s not easy.

ASHLEY: So we can say we want to do personalization at scale, but one-to-one marketing at scale, I actually think like, it doesn’t really exist.

ASHLEY: Like there’s not really any brand that’s going to be able to know me versus you and market completely differently, but starting to be able to segment that data in the platform and leverage it in real time in the moments that matter is a step in that direction.

ASHLEY: That’s the step we were talking about kind of personalizing EMEA at the point of open.

ASHLEY: That’s a step towards scale in my opinion.

BILL: Okay.

BILL: And the value exchange is key in the data.

BILL: Being able to collect the right kind of data and especially now zero-party data.

ASHLEY: Yep.

BILL: Right.

BILL: So, I mean, what did you learn about what people are willing to give up and what they expect in return?

BILL: How do the consumers perceive that value exchange?

ASHLEY: I think it’s what I said earlier.

ASHLEY: I think they’re willing to give up the necessary information where they don’t feel like it’s intruding on their personal identity to get relevant offers and rewards.

ASHLEY: So, you know, again, we’ve moved into a world where now consumers are open to giving up their phone number to receive text message based promotions.

BILL: Right.

ASHLEY: It wasn’t that long ago that everybody was rushing to make their number unlisted or then, you know, now I’m really dating myself or then move it forward and make, you know, put in RoboCaller blocker apps on the phone.

ASHLEY: But that’s because everybody was going around and stealing their information and then trying to reach out to them in a very, very intrusive way.

ASHLEY: So, you know, I think there’s a lot of brands that use this strategy of, you know, give us your information and we’ll give you a discount or a complimentary offer or whatever.

ASHLEY: And of course, an invitation at some times to a loyalty program.

ASHLEY: And again, I just did this.

ASHLEY: I just signed up for, oh, I know what it was.

ASHLEY: It was a company.

ASHLEY: So I live in Philadelphia.

ASHLEY: Philadelphia Eagles just won the Super Bowl.

BILL: Oh, lucky you.

ASHLEY: We’re having a great time around here.

ASHLEY: We’re buying lots of, you know, Super Bowl-related merch.

BILL: Right, right.

ASHLEY: And I got a targeted ad on Instagram from a company that I did follow on Instagram.

ASHLEY: I didn’t even know sold merch.

ASHLEY: I was like, cool, let me check this out.

ASHLEY: And then they gave me a pop-up ad, like if you sign up to receive text messages, we’ll give you a 15% discount on your first order.

ASHLEY: I was like, great, because I already wanted to buy this.

ASHLEY: And why not just save a bit more money?

ASHLEY: So I was, you know, fully willing.

ASHLEY: And they haven’t been bombarding me.

ASHLEY: They gave, I actually think I didn’t complete the purchase.

ASHLEY: So I got a reminder to like, and then I did this because I needed to ask my husband if he wanted to join in on the action, if there’s anything he wanted.

ASHLEY: So it’s felt very authentic and timely.

ASHLEY: And so I think that’s the other part of the value exchange is the timing of things, right?

ASHLEY: Like again, who goes back to, am I showing interest and intent?

ASHLEY: So, you know, I don’t think people are going to be willing to give up their data if they’re really not in the market.

ASHLEY: Because then I think some brands do take advantage of that and they get a little spammy with how much they’re doing.

ASHLEY: And, you know, email is certainly a bit easier to ignore than SMS.

ASHLEY: So, yeah, I think it’s also a journey, right?

ASHLEY: Like maybe you ask for the email first and then if they engage and you follow up with, you could also save more, receive the special offer if you opt in to text messages.

ASHLEY: So, you know, you got to get to know somebody first before you ask them for all of their deep dark secrets.

BILL: Right.

BILL: Oh, absolutely.

BILL: Yeah, absolutely.

BILL: So, yeah, we’ve been talking a lot about the loyalty at the brand level and how people make connections to the brands.

BILL: But in the report, did you also look at more the programmatic side of things, say, you know, loyalty program participation and what drives people to engage in loyalty programs?

BILL: What are their sort of, you know, good, bad and indifferent from all of that?

ASHLEY: Yeah, absolutely.

ASHLEY: I mean, again, not surprising, but the research did show that the loyalty programs are definitely still popular.

ASHLEY: I think it was something like over a third of respondents said that they were definitely more likely to join new loyalty programs this year and stay in the ones that they’ve got.

ASHLEY: So that’s good.

ASHLEY: So it’s just showing like an affinity for that.

ASHLEY: We paid particular attention to the segment of 25 to 34 year olds because they’re obviously that that segment is in a little bit of a different stage of their life and had different interactions with the digital world because they kind of grew up with it in a different way.

ASHLEY: And we were interested to see how they thought about loyalty programs.

ASHLEY: I think it was like almost half of them said that they were likely to participate.

ASHLEY: So what the research showed was people people love to be loyalty.

ASHLEY: And again, that like economic value factor is critical.

ASHLEY: Just because you have a loyalty program doesn’t necessarily mean that people are going to sign up for it, but they do see value in it.

BILL: That’s good because there are obviously a lot of voices out there talking about how loyalty is unstuck is one term we’ve been hearing a lot and that the loyalty program models need to change.

BILL: So if people are still looking at giving them a chance, at least I guess they’re still seeing value.

ASHLEY: Yeah, absolutely.

ASHLEY: Good thing.

BILL: Yeah.

BILL: Are there particular components of loyalty programs that they like?

BILL: And what’s the risk of getting it wrong and losing people through attrition?

ASHLEY: Well, first I want to say that a lot of people, the sentiment was that they felt like being a part of these was critical to feeling seen and valued.

ASHLEY: So it’s like all hooked back to what we’ve been talking about throughout this chat is, again, I feel like if you’re offering something that is meaningful to them and that they’ll get use out of, that is part of the personalization experience.

ASHLEY: But it’s still fragile.

ASHLEY: So we talked earlier in this conversation about if consumers can be fickle, they want to be associated with brands that they feel like share their same values.

ASHLEY: If brands make a blunder, it’s easy to lose them, whether directly or indirectly.

BILL: Yeah.

ASHLEY: So I think regardless of brands aren’t deploying a loyalty program, they’re probably missing an opportunity to just deepen that connection and learn more about their audience.

ASHLEY: But I think specifically, we see a lot of affinity for things like the obvious stuff.

ASHLEY: I’m earning points and rewards for participating in this.

ASHLEY: So I buy things, I get something in return or I give you my information, I earn a discount.

ASHLEY: Early access to stuff or exclusive offers and experiences ranked really high.

ASHLEY: I don’t know if you’re familiar with a QSR chain called Raising Cane’s.

ASHLEY: We’ve opened a lot of them here around Philadelphia actually.

ASHLEY: They have been doing something super cool for their loyal customers, which is every time they open a new location, which have been plenty, they are messaging their loyal customers to come to the opening.

ASHLEY: It’s like free food all day and all these experiences and like a whole bunch of different things that they’re doing.

ASHLEY: They’re doing contests to win like a year of Raising Cane’s free food.

ASHLEY: They’ve had since the Philadelphia Eagles won the Super Bowl, they had a couple of the star players like work the drive through one day, it’s like a give back to their loyal customers.

ASHLEY: Just really like the experiential stuff.

ASHLEY: We’re really seeing that take hold, especially with those younger age groups.

ASHLEY: Because it’s not just about, I’m getting something for free or discounted, but I’m part of a community.

ASHLEY: I’m part of this brand experience.

ASHLEY: I think that that’s one of the best things that brands can do is to not just engage with their consumers behind an app or a punch card, but face-to-face too and bring them out, bring them out to actually experience the brand in real life.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

BILL: Yeah.

BILL: It’s almost like they’re turning the customer base into a fan base.

ASHLEY: That’s what it sounds like.

ASHLEY: Exactly.

ASHLEY: We do live in a world of where influencers are king right now when it comes to content.

ASHLEY: I think people mirror themselves in those people and think, if I can be a part of that, maybe I could be an influencer.

ASHLEY: It’s a very interesting time when it comes to that aspect, I think, of brand interaction with their consumers.

ASHLEY: That’s some of the things that we’ve seen.

ASHLEY: Again, I think just, again, at the end of the day, being authentic and creative and connecting with those people that have been loyal to your brand, those are just very smart ideas that some of these organizations are able to achieve.

BILL: Yeah, for sure.

BILL: If you were to, there’s so much in this report, this 2025 Consumer Trends Index.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

ASHLEY: Hopefully, it’s designed in a way where I think people can click through to the section they’re looking for.

BILL: Yeah.

ASHLEY: It’s consumable.

BILL: I’ve been spending a lot of time with it.

BILL: It’s incredible.

BILL: I mean, stuff that we don’t even have time to talk about today, but there are differences in there.

BILL: There were differences like compare and contrast across the US, the UK, France.

BILL: I mean, some of those things are fascinating, so I encourage people to go and download it, look at it.

BILL: But just in the time we have left, if you were to summarize two or three key takeaways, the things that people need to know, need to be thinking about from the report, what would you say?

ASHLEY: Authenticity is critical.

ASHLEY: That was one of the trends that I took away from reading the data.

ASHLEY: Be real, be open, be honest, take feedback, listen to your customers, present them with relevant information at the right time.

ASHLEY: They’re willing to engage with you if you are willing to engage with them in the right way, and place importance on the value exchange.

ASHLEY: To me, that’s just like, again, there’s tons of stats and I don’t want to sound like a robot who’s just reading a Tesla report.

ASHLEY: So I always like to suggest a report and think about like, read between the lines, what is this really telling me?

ASHLEY: That was one of the things I wrote down in preparation to talk to you, was just like placing importance on the value exchange.

ASHLEY: Loyalty is valuable, but it’s fragile.

ASHLEY: That’s why you have to keep your eye on the price.

ASHLEY: And so it’s not just enough to have a punch card that ends up in their mobile wallet with a million other things.

ASHLEY: It’s important to think about the experience that that consumer is going to have with you across all those channels and what they’re giving to you to get from you.

BILL: That’s good.

BILL: That’s great.

BILL: That’s a good place to land it.

BILL: So, Ashley Deibert, Chief Marketing Officer at Marigold, thanks so much for your time.

BILL: I really appreciate it.

ASHLEY: It was really fun.

ASHLEY: Let’s do it again sometime.

BILL: You want to?

BILL: I just feel like we scratched the surface.

BILL: I know.

ASHLEY: I know.

ASHLEY: I have a bunch of questions for you.

ASHLEY: Well, it’s a big topic.

ASHLEY: It’s a big topic.

BILL: It is.

BILL: Absolutely.

BILL: All right.

BILL: Well, thanks again sincerely for your time.

ASHLEY: Thanks for having me.

BILL: I can only imagine all the other things you had in your calendar today.

BILL: So, thanks for carving out a little bit of time for-

ASHLEY: Absolutely.

ASHLEY: It was well worth it.

ASHLEY: It was great to hang out.

BILL: Yeah.

BILL: So thanks to Paula Thomas, Let’s Talk Loyalty.

BILL: The Wiser Marketer Podcast, all of this taken together.

BILL: It’s great.

BILL: So thanks again.

BILL: We’ll see you around soon.

ASHLEY: All right.

ASHLEY: Thanks.

ASHLEY: Thanks, Bill.

BILL: Thanks, everyone.

PAULA: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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