Amtrak’s Embarking on its New Ambition (#697)

Lisa: So talking about the comfort of travel that you know, you’re gonna have free high speed 5G wifi at your fingertips, uh, individual USB ports, individual outlets, reading lights, everything kind of, you know, right at your individual’s. Seat. There’s almost like so much stress in traveling that there’s like an exhale when you, when you get to a hotel or when you get to, uh, your destination.

A lot of our loyalty efforts are all about getting that next trip. So whether it’s your second trip, your fifth trip, your 50th trip, or your 500th trip, we really want you to see value from loyalty and the experience delivery that we’re focused on. We were proud to celebrate that we have 20 million, um, members and, and hit that milestone, which is.

Is pretty incredible. Um, and it also aligns with the organization just seeing, uh, incredible record break, record breaking revenue in ridership. How are we rewarding both leisure and frequent travelers? And that it’s not just about spend, but it’s about value. And how are we adding more to the. Before your journey, during your journey and after your journey.

So when we’re hearing that, you know, Aaron Conductor on train, 1, 2, 3, delivered, you know, the best experience and I, you know, loved connecting with him. We’re going back to Aaron and we’re giving him that feedback. And on a monthly basis, we’re actually taking these insights, putting them into crew basis so that we can, um, you know, recognize our front line and also identify areas where you know we can be better.

Hello and welcome to

Paula: Let’s Loyalty and Loyalty tv. A show for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty tv, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands. Today’s episode is part of the Wiser Loyalty Series and is hosted by Aaron Dny.

Chief Marketing and Business Development  officer of the Wise Marketeer Group. The Wise Marketeer Group is a media education and advisory services company. Providing resources for loyalty marketeers through the Wise Marketeer digital publication and the Loyalty Academy program that offers the Certified Loyalty Marketing professional or CLMP designation.

I hope you enjoyed this episode, brought to you by Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV in partnership with the Wise Marketeer Group.

Aaron: Hi everyone, and welcome back. To another edition of the Wiser Loyalty Podcast series. Uh, this series continues to be brought to you through partnership between Let’s Talk Loyalty and The Wise Marketer. Um, throughout 2024, the Wise Marketer, group CEOs, bill Hannifin, and myself, Aaron Dny. I’m the CMO here at Wise Marketer Group.

Shared our insights on loyalty constructs and topics inspired by one of the core [00:03:00] courses in our Loyalty Academy’s certified loyalty marketing professional curriculum, CLMP for short. So in 2 25, we uh, shifted from the academic focus to seek out insights from practitioners, uh, of the traits such as our CMPs and those who are leading from the C-suite.

Twice a month, we will bring you an interview with a C-level executive, a loyalty leader, or COMP, who’s transformed strategy into practical application and certainly generated strong business results for customer loyalty. And we have such a, an executive here today. With me today is Lisa Copeland, who has now very recently been made the VP of loyalty and customer engagement for amra.

And for anyone unfamiliar with Amtrak, it’s a national passenger railroad company for the United States. Uh, actually it stretches into three Canadian provinces and for those who know me, know that I’m Canadian. Um, but the blend of America and track is how you get to Amtrak in, in case anyone was wondering.

And they have more than 32 million passengers who have stepped on board their Amtrak trains in 2024. And about, and Lisa will correct me if I’m wrong in this, about 87,000 ride, 300 plus trains daily. [00:04:00] So welcome Lisa. Thank you for joining me and congratulations.

Lisa: Thank you so much,Aaron. I’m looking forward to our conversation today.

Aaron: Yes. Perfect. Um, why don’t I set the stage a little bit for our listeners first before we dive in. Um, let me talk a bit about your background because you’ve, uh, focused a good portion of your career on customer engagement. Um, you’re an award-winning marketer that has now taken on enhancing customer loyalty and brand performance for Amtrak over the past year and, and now subsequently into your new role, uh, which.

From you more in just a minute. But, um, prior to that, you held strategic leadership roles at a number of leading brands, right? So at Lowe’s you led the enterprise loyalty for both, uh, professionals and, and homeowners, uh, who were shopping at at that home improvement store. Um, you also are at Hilton where you shared your time between kind of Hilton Honors and then the co-brand marketing, uh, team, as well as the brand strategy global marketing team.

So I love that, that mix of brand through two. The programmatic. Um, and then at Pandora you identified strategic growth opportunities for the America’s region, if I recall. So, you know, all of these are very powerhouse brands in their respective verticals. And, and as I just said, I, I really like most is the, the range from the brand crossing over into customer loyalty because at the wise market here, we tend to think about loyalty from a big L perspective, you know, versus simply the programmatic view.

And so I’m sure, uh, given your experiences, we’re gonna have a really good conversation today. So let me just. Check there. Lisa, anything that I maybe have missed or anything you want to add for our listeners in terms of an opening silo?

Lisa: Uh, no, I appreciate the introduction. I guess the only thing you wouldn’t see, um, on my LinkedIn profile is that, uh, being a mom to a four-year-old son is probably one of my greatest leadership roles.

Oh, nice. Uh, it’s complete with feedback loops and endless on-the-job learning, uh, but in all seriousness. Uh, you know, my background with Hilton, Lowe’s, Pandora, uh, the common thread is that each of those companies, brands and experiences were committed to really understanding and getting to know our customers and serving them in the most meaningful and relevant ways.

Aaron: Oh, that’s a perfect setup too. And, uh, and I wanna dive into that more in just a minute, but before we do at, uh, at the podcast team here at Let’s Talk Loyalty, we always start off and kick off with a very speci specific question at the onset of these podcasts. And so first, before we dive in, I’d love to dig a little bit more into the personal side and thank you for sharing that, uh, about your 4-year-old.

But you know, in terms of. Uh, intellectually or where you’re starting to get your information from and your insights and thinking is being rounded out, uh, you know, what book are you currently reading and I guess why are you reading it or, or what’s the most fruitful takeaway perhaps that you can share with it from it?

Lisa: Yes. Well, I absolutely love this question. I am a big audio book listener, so I have loads and loads of audio books, uh, on my phone, but right now I’m listening to Unreasonable Hospitality by Will God. Um, this is actually so much more than an audiobook and a, a quick read for me. Um, but I’ve really leveraged this book almost as a mindset manual.

Um, so it’s so much more to me than a one-time read. Uh, I think this is the third time that I’ve, [00:07:00] I, I’m listening to it and I listen to it every week. Um, and some of the, the biggest takeaways, uh, for me is just this idea around, uh, delivering great hospitality. And, um, that hospitality is about building isn’t just about building relationships and it’s not about perfection, but it’s really about being present and it’s about creating these emotional connections with customers and guests.

So this has been a really big inspiration for me in my role here at Amtrak, um, because we’re going through so much transformation. And we’re often so focused on the logistics, on time performance, the operations, which is of course absolutely critical. But what I believe can really set us apart, um, is the experience that we deliver in the way that we make people feel when they’re on our trains.

So, um, this book, unreasonable Hospitality, has really challenged me to think about the way that we empower our teams, the way that we think about, uh, creating moments. How we think about showing up, and we’ve actually rebranded our, um, contact center to a care center as we really look at removing barriers, uh, and really creating more empathetic and embed hospitality into the bones of how we serve our customers.

So, um, this book has, has taught me so much and, um, well, it’s called Unreasonable Hospitality and kind of gives you this ambition of being able to almost kind of conquer anything. Um, one of the essence of the books is that, you know, the. Sort of a good idea is a good idea. And so the opposite of unreasonable hospitality is just reasonable hospitality, which also is a great idea.

So, um, this is a book that, as I mentioned, is just something I keep going back to and have a, uh, loads and loads of notes on.

Aaron: Yeah, it sounds like you’ve got some really great insights there and, and almost a bit of a mantra if you’re going to it on a daily routine basis and integrating it into some of the thinking that you have at Amtrak now.

Um, I like the, the aspect that you’re talking about of thinking about Amtrak from an operational perspective and, and a quote I can share with everyone that I’ve, that I’ve seen from you actually, is that you thrive at the intersection of strategy and execution. That’s what you’re kind of alluding to in the book there.

And so the rest of the quotes talks about turning partnerships into powerful engines for sustained success. I’d love the, the, the double there with the powerful engines in that, the fact that you’re at Amtrak now, so it seems very AP apropos for, uh, language for you and your new role. And so, um, perhaps we can start with there, like, tell us a bit more about the business and specifically the new ambition that you’re bringing to amra to engage passengers, uh, and the ridership.

Uh, and then also maybe start to describe for us the key customer types, uh, that you’re targeting. Yeah. How do you get, you know, that you’re trying to influence loyalty mechanics, kind get a. Picture of your, your tra, your typical archetype and maybe some new archetypes that you’re trying to influence.

Lisa: Yeah. Um, would be happy to. So, um, one of the things that attracted me most to, uh, leading loyalty and customer engagement at Amtrak is that we’re on a mission, and this is a multi-year transformation of really shifting from transportation company to hospitality powerhouse. So we  are double downing, um, on the customer experience and shifting from this mindset of how do we, uh, connect from point A to point B, but how do we move people and how do we improve the experience along the way?

So, you know, we have a lot of ambition, uh, and you’ve probably heard our, our, uh, you know, chief Commercial Officer talk about really being this hotel on wheels. And there’s a lot of great partnerships we have in place, uh, with Steven Starr and our, our, our first class, um, experience on Ella to revamping our, our Cafe Ella menu, uh, to just reshaping the mindset of how people think and approach travel.

So, um, so much of taking the train and kind of choosing the train over maybe other modes of, of travel is that you really get to. Start, uh, the experience, the moment that you get on board. And so we’re really revamping and rethinking what that means, uh, from changing our internal mindset of, you know, from, you know, customers to actually, how are we welcoming guests aboard to creating surprise and delight.

Moments, uh, to rebuilding our loyalty program, to thinking about training differently. And that all starts with, you know, better understanding our core audiences. And there’s, you know, three core audiences that we’re keeping top of mind as, as we kind of go through this transformation journey. Uh, the first audience are those frequent travelers or commuters who are relying on Amtrak daily.

So how are we showing up for them in a way that’s reliable, in a way that they feel recognized? Um, a second group for us are our leisure travelers or our long dis. Travelers who the travel train travel for them is so much more intentional. It’s so much more about the experience delivery and how are we creating reasons for them to choose train over flying or driving to get more of the experience, the moment you get on, not just when you arrive to your destination.

And then the third, um, audience that I, I would be remiss without mentioning is just those that are first time. So, you know, [00:12:00] uh, there’s a huge opportunity for anyone who’s traveling the train for the, for the first time to feel confident, to feel excited to, um, you know, kind of understand what to expect.

So we’re doing a lot more with some of those first touches to personalize the outreach. Um, and then also thinking about ways that we can reengage them, uh, post travel with either targeted authors or remind them of why they should choose Trane. Uh, for their second trip. So across all three of these audiences, whether they’re frequent leisure or you know, it’s one of their first time experiencing our product, we’re really, uh, honing in on how are we making sure it’s more relevant, that it’s timely and that it’s resonant.

And, uh, we’ve been leading a lot more into how are we looking at our data and customer triggers and events that they, that we might be able to track with them to, to do that in the most meaningful way.

Aaron: Oh, that’s very interesting. And, and perhaps we can dive a bit deeper into some of those, those customers focus, or I call them market types, but, uh, and do it in a bit in reverse order.

’cause I, I’m always interested in, you know, first impressions matter type of mindset. And so talking about that last group, you know, you, you made a, a few comments in terms of some of the things you’re doing, but. You know, what are some of the, the early successful strategies that you’re, you’re utilizing to get customers onto your trains for the first time?

And, and, and perhaps even I can tease it a little bit out here because I know a little bit more than the, the average folk about the latest product that you’re actually launching with Amtrak and, and the new train set. And, and what does that, what does that bode for this first time type of, uh, uh, writer or traveler with you?

Lisa: Yeah. Um, another great question, and one of the things I think our team is most proud of, um, is actually a new campaign that we launched called Retrain Travel. So, uh, this is a moment for us to get in front of those first time, uh, customers or process. Effects, if you will, to really let them know the joy of train rides.

I love it. And uh, you know, in a lot of my actually, uh, experience with Hilton and some of the research that we’ve done, there’s almost like so much, um, stress. In traveling, that there’s like an exhale when you, when you get to a hotel or when you get to, uh, your destination. But through this retrained travel campaign, we really want to lean into the fact that, um, the friction of the journey doesn’t have to take away from the joy of the destination, and that you can actually experience that joy and that ease and that, um, you know, uh.

Kind of encouraging experience the moment you step on our trains. So, you know, if you’re choosing between, uh, driving or you’re choosing between flying, you know, driving has a lot of undivided attention with stoplights and traffic and brake lights and flying at times. Um, you know, can be a, a little bit stressful in going through security and, you know, these.

Kind of tight middle seats. Uh, but the joy of train travel is that, you know, you’re not stuck in traffic. There’s no middle seats. You have freedom to move around. You can connect with family, you can be productive, um, with anything that you might need to accomplish for work. But this retrained travel campaign is really around kind of unlocking, uh, that the joy of the.

Nation can actually start the moment you start to travel. So, um, through this campaign, we’ve actually been able to see traffic to our sites. Up is 48% year on year. We’ve seen significant improvements in brand consideration, favorability, and likelihood to recommend. And so this idea of just, um, driving deeper consideration for rail travel has really been a, a mission of the team and we’re seeing the fruits of that labor.

Um, but it doesn’t stop there. As you were alluding to, um. And that we are, uh, about to be launching the next Gen Acela. Yeah. Which is a all new premium ride. Uh, and this product is going to run between major city centers, so from DC to New York, to Boston, and all the destinations in between. We’re really, really, really excited to be able to bring this next gen Aela forward to elevate the experience and really give our travelers even more amenities.

So talking about the comfort of travel that you know, you’re gonna have free high speed 5G wifi. At your fingertips, uh, individual USB ports, individual outlets, reading lights, everything kind of, you know, right at your individual seat. And not only that, um, this new train is going to hit maximum speeds of 160 miles per hour.

Um, and it’s very tech forward, um, is the fastest train actually in, in the United States right now. And as we launch this product, we’re gonna have more daily departures, limited stops and opportunities for customers to choose their seats, to take advantage of all of our onboard amenities. Um, and so we’re really excited to be able to bring this product to, to the market.

Aaron: Oh, that sounds fascinating. And it sounds like, um, you know, the, the infrastructure and the experience of of taking this new train format, uh, is actually going to equal, uh, e put it be the great equalizer. I maybe is a better way to phrase it with air travel as an example. So all the things that you expect to have on the plane, like you said, with the, whether it’s the individual USB or a connection point, or your own own light to, you know, have the proper lighting if you’re, you know, in a later commute, in a later part of the day or early party morning before the sun comes up.

You’re gonna have that ability to be able to work and or leisurely enjoy things as well too. So that’s amazing. Yeah. And if

Lisa: you don’t mind, I’ll share one of my personal favorites, um, is that I think we all kind of like our personal space, right? Mm-hmm. When we’re traveling, um, and the way that this product has.

Been designed is around that and superior comfort with leg room, with privacy headrest. And so you’re gonna feel like you just have a lot more personal space, um, which is something I, I, I personally value.

Aaron: Yeah. And that’s actually a really good transition into like the, another set of the customers which you, you’re alluding to with this product because of the, the major centers that you talked about.

So, I mean, some of those are a little bit longer if you’re going from. Uh, New York to DC to Boston. Like that could be that more leisurely type of [00:18:00] traveler, but the daily commuter, right? Like, uh, you know, the, what is, like, what are some, this is a product strategy that you have in terms of putting in, but what are some of the kind of higher touch points that connect into loyalty program mechanics that start to drive, um, this regular, uh, return ridership or even daily ride?

You have, I know that’s a big portion of your, of your, of your base.

Lisa: Yes. And, um, you know, a lot of our loyalty efforts are all about getting that next trip. So whether it’s your second trip, your fifth trip, your 50th trip, or your 500th trip, um, you know, we really want you to see value, uh, from loyalty and the, the experience delivery that we’re focused on.

So when we think about that return ridership, um, there’s really three levers that we are focused on right now. The first lever, um, is what I would call channel relevance. So we are really, um, investing in mobile right now and we are reimagining the in information architecture to streamlining navigation to better loyalty integrations and seeing a lot more of our bookings coming from mobile.

And we actually know that there’s a lot more power, um, in connection and we’re gonna get a lot more from you if you’re able to download the app and, and have everything at your fingertips. So a lot of our ex. Experience right now is focusing on how are we driving more channel relevance and, and looking at mobile in a bigger way.

Uh, one of the second levers that we’re really focused on as we think about return ridership is enhancing the experience. Um, and so, you know, beyond the product and, you know, the great advancements like with Next Gen Aela, we’re really, um, looking to evolve from broad campaigns to driving more personalized.

Conversations. So that’s more tailored messages. Um, it’s being able to meet and design real time communication designed for onboard or, um, you know, ways that are predictive and, and less reactive that Aaron, you and I might be frequent travelers who are, are traveling, you know, every week, uh, but your travel, uh, maybe you missed us a week, and were able to see like, Hey, where was Aaron this week?

Or, Hey, if I’m traveling every week. I might be able to, you know, serve myself a, a slightly different message that really is resonant and you’re not going to need, because we’re frequent travelers. All of the pre-board messaging and all of the things that maybe you are just used to and becomes white noise for you.

So, you know, we’re really looking at driving enhanced experience by understanding our customer’s behaviors in a better way. And serving them more relevant, personalized content offers that really, um, enhance the experience. Um, the third piece is really around, uh, you know, strengthening loyalty. So we were proud to celebrate that we have 20 million, um, members and, and hit that milestone, which is pretty incredible.

Um, and it also aligns with the organization just seeing, uh, incredible record break, record breaking revenue in ridership. Um, over this past year. Um, but at the same time, we have aspirations to double our ridership goals by 2040. So in order to be able to do that, we’re absolutely focused on, you know, attracting more customers, keeping our existing customers coming back for more.

And we recognize the power of loyalty and really being able to deliver that. So right now we’re seeing double digit growth and growth in how we’re getting loyal. More loyalty redemptions. And we’re excited to, you know, continue to see more, um, value out of the program and thinking about redemption in a bigger way, as well as, um, you know, partnerships and member only offers.

Um, but we are in the midst right now of actually doing a, a lot of our diligence to revamp the program, um, and, you know, really reimagine, uh, how we deliver that value in the most meaningful way for our customers.

Aaron: Maybe we can, uh, dig a little deeper there, if you don’t mind, within, within reason that you can share, obviously in a public form, uh, like this, because, you know, as you already alluded to, um, when we think about all the considerations for travelers, that’s car, plane, or train are kind of the, the big three, if you will.

And, and what we’ve seen particulars pick on airlines first. Um, you know, here in North American, some of the airlines, certainly not all of them, but, but many of them are starting to strip away a lot of the value from their loyalty programs. So, you know, how, how do you see yourselves positioning to.

Capitalize on this and encourage individuals to choose rail over flight and then, and then actually maybe, you know, do that as a part A and then part B, uh, we’ll pick on car rental perhaps in the, in the driving category versus someone’s own home car. Uh, ’cause we see, uh, a lot of, of those programs starting to wane cer, you know, and, and certainly.

Not as, uh, frequent as they used to be utilized. And so if, if there’s a positioning there around, you know, how how do I get from, uh, JFK to New Haven, Connecticut. I actually just did that recently. So that one, that rails for me. It, I can either rail or I, can I use a, an Uber or a Black Lane car service, or I can do a car rental.

Like, like maybe talk to those competitive positionings, both for the airline and then the car services that, uh, that people can have as options to choose from.

Lisa: Yeah, I would be happy to, but I guess I would just start, um, you know, between us, yeah, I aspire that we are going to be a leading loyalty program in the hospitality space.

So, you know, we recognize that airline programs have really, you know, shifted towards spend based status. Um, you know, really kind of maybe even reducing redemption values at time. Uh, but as we look at loyalty, we believe. And, and the role that that rail can play. Uh, we believe that there’s an opportunity for us to lead with simplicity and experience.

And so a lot of the work that we’re doing is how are we making a GR very accessible, easy to use? How are we rewarding both leisure and frequent travelers? And that it’s not just about spend, but it’s about value. And how are we adding more to the. Experience, experience before your journey, during your journey and after your journey.

So, you know, our competitive positioning, if you will, is that rail really sits in this sweet spot, uh, between convenience and comfort. And, uh, you can take the train and you can actually skip all the, or you could. Take the, uh, take an air, air, air flight. Sorry, take a flight. Or you could, you know, do a rental car.

But there’s so much ease in just the, the rail experience. Um, you know, you’d be surprised at like, I show up to the station sometimes five min minutes before the train is about to depart, and there’s just a simplicity of skipping the rental desk, enjoying the ride. Once you get on board, you can actually kind of exhale.

And relax. And so, you know, the message is actually, you know, to, to make it easy and to stay connected and giving you that optionality, whether you wanna connect with friends, connect with family, or you wanna be productive. Uh, but there’s a lot of aspiration to find that right balance between convenience, comfort, simplicity, and um, making the travel experience, you know, almost as much as a joy as it is when you get to your destination.

Aaron: I, I, I think that’s, uh, you are right on the money in terms of what your ambition is. And certainly I can speak from my own past experience, not on Amtrak, but, uh, you know, the sister equivalent here in Canada with Via Rail, uh, and a previous, uh, life I, I worked, uh, for a Toronto based corporation, uh, that had a Montreal office.

And so part of my commute to was back and forth between the two cities here. Uh, that’s about a four and a half hour rail travel. Or it’s about an hour and 15 minute flight, but when, to your point, you add in the, you need to be at the airport early. You then have to commute to the airport, which is about 35 minutes.

Now. You get to Montreal and you’ve gotta commute into the city on that side as well too. You’re, you’re in around three, three and a half hours. So for that extra hour, the comfort and convenience you’re talking about. And the simplicity of arriving at a downtown centered location for me when I live near the downtown, it it just breeze of, of just a better, better experience overall.

And so I certainly was doing that many years ago and I’ve, I’ve actually sneakily been a trained fanatic for a number of years because of that. So I love what Amtrak is going for. Uh, and I think it’s about actually making people aware that, you know, typically do travel, uh, on air, that hey, there’s a better way to some degree, and that’s more fulfilling.

Uh, and satisfying if you’re, if you’re a business traveler or if you’re a, a leisure traveler.

Lisa: You’ve got it.

Aaron: Great. That’s great. Um, so I mean, let’s actually hit on that a little bit more because the rail sector is certainly, you know, what we consider a non-traditional loyalty sector. And, and perhaps, uh, I’d certainly love your industry perspective because of the varied organizations and verticals that you’ve operated in.

And so, you know, here at, uh, the Wise Marketer, we’ve heard whispers that, you know, loyalty’s a bit of a data topic and that it’s a bit. Stuck. Um, I’d certainly love your position as a customer engagement subject matter expert, you know, where do you think we are as an industry? So, taking a little bit outside of Amtrak for holistically, and you, you’ve alluded to a little bit in term terms of your ambition, but you know, what are, so, so where do you think we’re as an industry, but also what’s important for customer loyalty at, at this point to, to really hit ho on and, and where do you see the differentiator?

Lisa: Yeah. Um, another great question, and I I wanna go on the record that I don’t believe loyalty is stuck. Um, I actually believe that loyalty is expanding. And, um, with  that though, I, I do believe that traditional earn and burn mechanisms and these transactional experiences between customers and brands is just not enough.

So, as I look ahead, you know, I, and even kind of going back to your first question around this idea of unreasonable. Today’s customer really expects relevance. They expect recognition, and they expect real time value. And so loyalty, I believe, um, sits at the center of Customer Expectation Ecosystem. And, uh, for those who work with me and those who know me, I believe loyalty is.

So much more than a program, but it’s a culture, it’s data, it’s service, it’s emotional connection. And when you put all of those things together, it’s going to be and can be so powerful. Not even just for customers and for the brand, but for your employees because it gives them something so much more to believe in.

And so, um, you know, I believe for brands and kind of non-traditional sectors like rail. [00:28:00]Defining loyalty is not about redefining our point value, but it’s really about seamless service, uh, recognition in moments that matter, and reasons that give people a desire to return, that feel meaningful, that feel timely, and you know, in a lot of ways, feel more personal.

Aaron: Uh, oh. That’s a, an, uh, an incredibly eloquent way to sum up exactly the essence of how we think about loyalty as this big l loyalty, because it is broader than just the programmatics, as we’ve talked about. So, so thank you for, for Descripting in that way, and I’m glad that, uh, you’re taking the stance to be a leading.

Loyalty company, I think is no loyalty program, but a loyalty company like has it all and resonate throughout the entire organization as you described. So, um, I know we’re getting closer to our time here, but before I ask my final question, I I, I do always like to kind of open the floor as they say to, to our, our guests to say, is there anything that you want to comment on in terms of what you think about loyalty marketers or business leaders?

Like, what do they need to know? What’s the, what’s a big, other than what you just described is a great. [00:29:00] Takeaway in and of itself. And so maybe we could leave it there, but if there’s anything else, uh, here’s an opportunity to kind of, uh, uh, you know, put Lisa’s perspective onto things.

Lisa: Well, I appreciate this opportunity and my guidance.

Uh, for anyone kind of entering the space or thinking, rethinking the space is to invest in your data story. So loyalty teams often have some of the richest customer insights, but we really need to be able to take that data. Translate it into insights that then we can translate into actions, right? And so the way that we connect data across the Organa organization from marketing to operations to defining, you know, frontline experiences, the more aligned that data is, the more you’re thinking about capturing zero party data, the more powerful those customer engagement and interactions can be.

And we at Amtrak are actually really committed to better understanding the customer. And that all starts with, um, you know, listening to them. We actually deploy and receive over [00:30:00] a million responses from customers, or we’re about to hit a million responses where, um, you know, we’re just getting textual responses on what did you like, where could we have, have done better?

And, um, these are comments that I am reading every single week that really helped drive decision making. They help drive design. They help improve. Program designs. Um, and they really allow us opportunities to make sure we’re connecting with customers on what they want and what they expect from us.

Aaron: I, I love that you’ve got that customer centric view at the forefront of what you’re doing.

And, and it’s not just this ivory tower moment that you’re, you’re building on. It’s actually coming straight from, from those who are, um, actually riding, riding your trains and, and experiencing what you have in, in terms of a product and market right now. So that, that’s great to hear. Uh, just a quick question on that.

This is my curiosity as a researcher, if you don’t mind. Um. Uh, it for the group. What are you finding in terms of, of that million, is it typically the, the, you know, squeaky wheel that is, is commenting or is it those who are saying, Hey, I really enjoyed this aspect, and the positive elements are shining through?

What would you say the proportion is? And then are you seeing that as well too in terms of the way?

Lisa: Yes, it’s such a great question and it’s actually a combination of both. And so, you know, some of the things that we’re seeing are key drivers in the experience besides on time performance are actually staff interactions.

Comfort of seat communication before, during, and after your trip. So we’re, um, actually not just sitting with this data, we’re using it to go back to our teams and actually using it as a recognition tool. So when we’re hearing that, you know, Aaron Conductor on train 1, 2, 3 delivered, you know, the best experience and I, you know, loved connecting with him.

We’re going back to Aaron and we’re giving him that feedback. And on a monthly basis, we’re actually taking these insights, putting them into crew bases so that we can, um, you know, recognize our front line and also identify areas where, you know, we can be better, um, a little bit every day. So, uh, this is, you know, not something we do, but it’s something that we are also actioning as well.

Aaron: Oh, this is what a great story because in terms of, of organizations that talk  about, um, enterprise loyalty, what you’ve just described is enterprise loyalty to the fullest degree. Um, usually it’s, it’s across product lines that people spread it in terms of opportunity, but this is the way that we think about it, is it’s infused within the organization and the actual organization.

As I said earlier, loyalty company. So that’s, that’s a great example. Um, maybe we can build on that as we, as we capstone for today’s conversation, which has been a really, really informative and appreciate you taking the time with us. Um, can you share one example, and it can be from either your personal or your professional life, um, as to what there, what was an epiphany moment?

You know, one where you just really, really thought, Hey, gosh, darn it, this is why customer loyalty works.

Lisa: Yeah, so another great question. It actually goes a little bit to the conversation we were just having, um, in that my, you know, personal loyalty epiphany, it doesn’t necessarily come from a high profile campaign.

It’s not, you know, some uber luxury. It’s. Experience. Um, but it’s actually in these post ride surveys that I am reading on a weekly basis. And so, um, one recurring story that I hear that, um, reinforces the value of loyalty and the val value of building customer relationships. Um, and I hear this story often, um, but you know, we as humans who have.

So much that were going on from being mom to, uh, you know, going to work, to board meetings, to, you know, all the things that we have going on. Um, we are often, um, and I’ll tell a specific story about, you know, how stressful a rider was having one morning of just like getting to the station, boarding their regular train and, you know, getting where they needed to go.

And they were actually greeted by name. By the conductor, uh, because this, you know, rider rides several times a week. And so that to me is not this grand gesture, but it’s actually simple recognition of Good to see you again. Hi. Hello Aaron. How are you doing today? And it’s in these moments. That we can make, um, our customers feel like more than just a passenger on a train, but make them feel seen, drive that human connection.

And so when I see these things come through in these surveys each week, it’s this kind of recognition that that loyalty is not a transaction, but it actually comes from recognizing our customers, knowing who they are, and being able to service them in a meaningful way. And so that’s what we are looking at, scaling and building at Amtrak.

So we’re modernizing systems. We’re trying to enhance our loyalty program. We wanna make points more accessible, but more importantly, we wanna deliver a great feeling across every single journey. Making sure that, you know, it’s personalized. We’re delivering frontline hospitality and thoughtful service recovery because we really want our customers to know that we value them and that we want them back.

So, um, you know, this whole kind of story is something I I see often and it’s, it’s actually just this essence of, you know, when you recognize people, they don’t just return, but they actually remember the experience.

Aaron: Oh, a hundred percent that I construct of knowing me, uh, can, uh, certainly, uh, drive and fulfills upon the loyalty promise, if you will.

And, and it has that sense of reciprocity, right? Like I’m on your trains on a regular, uh, regular basis, and an individual in your organization took the time to understand, knows my patterns, can see the anguish of that particular situation of a, you know, a, a very, um. Furious or, uh, or action packed morning.

Uh, and I just need to arrive and get to my train and to relax. ’cause that can be my sanctuary as they’ve now described for

Lisa: yes. For a

Aaron: few moments to unwind and unpack and then get on with the day and, and, and being able to, for someone else to recognize that that’s the situation because they see your pattern so often.

Uh, that really is a true loyalty, um, uh, moment for sure. It’s, uh, it reminds me of the example we always talk about when. You know, in the fifties and sixties, or even, uh, a little bit later than that, when you’d go to the butcher store, right? And the butcher to get your cut and meat each weekend. And he would know you, but he or she would know you by name, right?

So. The exact same type of, of, of, uh, pinnacle moment for loyalty in terms of a payoff, uh, which goes, as you’ve said quite eloquently in this conversation and, and emphasized. It goes more than this, the transactional and the programmatics. You know, it’s not just about the, the payback in terms of monetary.

It’s, it’s much, much more and broader and deeper. That’s wonderful. Yeah.

Lisa: Awesome.

Aaron: Lisa, this has been a, a fantastic conversation. I’m really excited to see, uh, where you take Amtrak and the growth, uh, trajection that you’re on. I want to thank you very much for your time today and spending it with us. Um, also want to thank those of who you, who are listening in.

We know your time’s valuable as well too. And, and so with that, we’ll say a do and uh, as always, stay loyal.

Paula: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. If you’d like us to send you the latest shows each week, simply sign up for the Let’s Talk Loyalty newsletter on let’s talk loyalty.com, and we’ll send our best episodes straight to your inbox.

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