#135: Loyalty Industry Innovation - RENT Should Be Rewarding

PAULA: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.

PAULA: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from Loyalty Specialists around the world.

PAULA: Thank you.

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PAULA: And particularly today, as they were just named a leader in the Forrester Wave Loyalty Solutions Q2 2021 report, with the top score in the current offering category.

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PAULA: Hello, it’s great to have you listening on the show today.

PAULA: For any of you who get as excited as I do, when I see a new loyalty program launching, today I have a real treat in store for you.

PAULA: Bilt Rewards is the world’s first loyalty program that rewards you for paying rent.

PAULA: And by that, yes, I mean the money that so many of us spend every single month to pay rent for our home.

PAULA: It’s a really big idea and a remarkable loyalty industry innovation.

PAULA: So today I was thrilled to be able to chat to industry veteran, Dave Canty, director of loyalty and partnerships at Bilt Rewards to share this incredible idea with you on today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: So, Mr.

PAULA: David Canty, please do tell me, what is your favorite loyalty statistic?

DAVID: Hey Paula, how are you?

DAVID: I think my favorite loyalty statistic is redemption breeds loyalty.

DAVID: I know that that’s a favorite amongst others, but I’ve always been a huge advocate for the customer.

DAVID: So I’ve always invested in the customer proposition.

DAVID: And I think the customer only really gets to realize that when they redeem.

DAVID: So to me, making sure that the hurdles and the entry into redemption are achievable and encourageable, then that really kind of allows you to engage with your members earlier in the process.

PAULA: Lovely, lovely.

PAULA: I think I’ve often used the word integrity, Dave, when I talk about what makes a loyalty program successful.

PAULA: And without naming names, one of the first programs I worked on had an agency that actually didn’t have that same level of customer centricity.

PAULA: And they were basically earning, in fact, a fixed fee regardless of the rate of redemption.

PAULA: And obviously then they were disincentivizing it.

PAULA: So I know it’s a big issue for the industry.

PAULA: What’s a healthy redemption rate?

PAULA: What’s a healthy reward rate?

PAULA: But actually it’s something I know, for example, American Airlines also alluded to, and I’ll be dying to get into your kind of airline background.

PAULA: But the whole idea of the speed to redemption and making sure that that redemption actually happens.

PAULA: I think probably, I suppose, because the airline industry started the whole kind of loyalty industry.

PAULA: Would you say it’s there that you got that kind of insight from?

DAVID: I probably got the insight more on the hotel side, but if I look at my airline experience, when I worked for JetBlue, I did have the opportunity to really kind of reimagine what loyalty can be in the airline industry, certainly in the United States.

DAVID: JetBlue was the first major airline to introduce a revenue-based program in the United States.

PAULA: Yes, yeah.

DAVID: At the time, it was leading edge.

DAVID: And other airlines, all the majors, basically said, that’s not gonna work.

DAVID: And they have all subsequently followed.

DAVID: And I think by going to a revenue-based model at that point in time, it allowed the relationship between the revenue management team and the loyalty team to really come together as one.

PAULA: Okay.

DAVID: Because before airlines were very much forced down the path of capacity controls and so forth.

DAVID: But now by going to a revenue-based model, it allowed you to really kind of open up all the inventory on the aircraft for redemption.

DAVID: And I think that basically was an opportunity for us to reimagine how loyalty programs can play a part and be a significant positive within the airline from that point forward.

DAVID: Up to that point, I think the relationship between revenue management and loyalty was always viewed as loyalty was the cost center.

DAVID: Yeah.

DAVID: And I think changing that mindset was hugely important.

PAULA: And can I ask you, Dave, just on that point, did consumers understand that?

PAULA: Or how did the consumers react?

PAULA: Because I think it’s genius.

PAULA: And as many of my listeners know, I’m ex-British Airways, I’m ex-Emirates, didn’t have an incredible role like you did with JetBlue.

PAULA: But did the consumer understand the difference and why you were making that very important strategic decision?

DAVID: At the time, it was a huge risk for us at JetBlue to take that step because it required us to not only believe in what our strategy was and be patient with it, but it also required us to educate the customer base.

DAVID: And when you have the majority of the traveling public in the United States at that time, were essentially conditioned into mileage-based programs, there was a reluctance to accept this new model.

DAVID: So it required us to keep focused on the long game here and educate customers about the fact that this was actually gonna be better for them over time.

DAVID: And by showing them that Redemption was available to them a lot earlier, helped with that message.

DAVID: Because all of a sudden, where traditionally you had programs that were opening up their inventory at let’s say 25,000 miles, we were now opening that up at 5,000 points.

DAVID: And allowing people to get to that kind of level early and quickly was hugely advantageous to us because it allowed us to really demonstrate that what we’re actually bringing to the market is going to open up so many other opportunities and stimulate.

DAVID: Reward travel.

DAVID: So, yes, there was an element of hesitation from the public in acceptance.

DAVID: But over time, I think they realized that actually this makes a lot of sense.

DAVID: And when you started to see the adoption rate continuously grow and you saw redemption rates continuously grow, then that allowed us to really tell the story.

DAVID: And I also think it’s important as well to have this continuous dialogue with your customer base.

DAVID: So what we were doing was we were introducing something very new.

DAVID: We were asking them to adopt, essentially.

DAVID: By the way, we were also, we’re also asking our partners to change their mindset.

DAVID: And by being able to demonstrate that you’re getting to a reward earlier, we were able to show over time that the adoption of the program, not just at the core, but through the partner ecosystem as well.

DAVID: It actually went skywards.

DAVID: It was tremendous.

PAULA: I’m sure, exponential growth, I’m sure, was it?

DAVID: It was significant growth, triple digit.

PAULA: My goodness, my goodness, wow.

PAULA: Talk about a career-defining campaign.

DAVID: Yeah, I wouldn’t, it hasn’t ended there, but it certainly helped.

PAULA: So I think 26 years I counted in total of the direct loyalty experience.

PAULA: Any other highlights that you’d mention?

PAULA: Because we’ve talked about, obviously JetBlue, I think you were eight years as Director of Loyalty in partnerships with JetBlue.

PAULA: You had time with Starwood and also IHG.

PAULA: So what other stands out, I suppose, in terms of things you’re particularly proud of in your loyalty career?

DAVID: Yeah, so the 11 years with Starwood were terrific because I was there actually pre-Starwood.

DAVID: I was there with ITT Sheraton.

DAVID: And when Barry Sternlicht, who was the CEO and founder of Starwood, when he acquired the brands of ITT, that was subsequent to an acquisition of a small hotel brand at the time called Weston, believe it or not.

DAVID: So Weston had a program called Weston Premier, and we had a program called Sheraton Club International.

DAVID: And the remit then was we need one program and make it the best program in the world.

DAVID: And when you get that kind of direction, it’s both a challenge, but at the same time, it’s really kind of liberating because it allows you to kind of attack things from a white space.

DAVID: And I think where we ended with SPG basically was industry transformative.

DAVID: It became one of the most loved programs in the world.

DAVID: So I’ve been lucky in the sense that I was part of SPG from the very, very beginning.

DAVID: And to see that get embraced by the traveling public in the hospitality space was hugely rewarding.

DAVID: I kind of took a step to the right then, which was kind of really interesting as well when I joined AutoZone in the US.

DAVID: And some people, because I was only there for a year, it tends to get glossed over, but it was an amazing experience because it was the first time I’d ever kind of stepped into the retail space.

DAVID: And what really intrigued me about that opportunity was, again, it was, we don’t have a loyalty program.

DAVID: We actually don’t know what the hell we want, and can you help us?

DAVID: And so that started from a blank sheet of paper as well.

PAULA: Okay.

DAVID: And the way that that completely transformed sales, same store sales for AutoZone, which is the largest auto parts store in the United States.

PAULA: Wow.

DAVID: At the time it had 5,000 stores.

PAULA: My goodness.

DAVID: And I think the thing that really intrigued me about that was AutoZone owned all those stores.

DAVID: They weren’t franchised.

DAVID: So by being able to create a program from scratch that more than doubles the average basket was hugely rewarding.

DAVID: But I did have a realization at the time that while I’m very proud of what we achieved at AutoZone, I did have a realization that once travels inside you, it’s very hard to leave it go.

PAULA: Oh, totally.

PAULA: Yeah.

DAVID: So when JetBlue invited me back to New York, I kind of thought, you know what?

DAVID: I think I can leave the care parts piece behind me.

DAVID: But at the same time, it was a moment in my career that I’m very grateful for because I’m very grateful to Autosome for giving me the opportunity.

DAVID: It was a terrific opportunity, and I learned an awful lot from it.

DAVID: Because now you’re looking at very small kind of average baskets and seeing how you can exponentially grow that and how you can influence behavior.

PAULA: Wow.

DAVID: And then, of course, IHG was a huge opportunity because you were talking about, believe it or not, the first hotel program in the world.

PAULA: Oh, my goodness.

DAVID: And at the time, it was the largest hotel program because it had 120 million members.

PAULA: My goodness.

DAVID: Globally.

DAVID: And that was without that acquisition.

DAVID: Running their programs, so we had multiple programs under the IHG arm.

DAVID: So you had Kimpton Karma, which ultimately we kind of, we retired Kimpton Karma, but retained Kimpton Inner Circle.

DAVID: And then you had the Intercontinental Ambassador.

DAVID: And of course, within that, you have Royal Ambassador.

DAVID: IHG Rewards, which, like I said at the top, was the largest and first hotel program.

DAVID: And having a program that kind of is relevant across the world, across multiple different brands to different customer segments was amazing.

DAVID: And then of course, that leads me to where I am today with Bilt.

DAVID: And that’s something that I’m very proud of.

PAULA: Well, I mean, that’s the main reason you’re on the show today, Dave.

PAULA: I had been very aware of your illustrious career, of course, with all of that fantastic work.

PAULA: So thank you for talking us through and firmly establishing your credentials.

PAULA: But I honestly think Bilt Rewards is perhaps the most innovative concept that I have seen.

PAULA: And I think ever, like I’m consulting 10, 11 years, I can see you’re nodding your head.

PAULA: Bilt Rewards is literally renting should be rewarding.

PAULA: This is the tagline I’ve seen on the website, an entirely new proposition.

PAULA: You already use the word relevant and I know you have a particular passion about why this concept is, first of all, I think essential.

PAULA: And secondly, so powerful.

PAULA: So I’d love you to explain and introduce Bilt Rewards for the audience.

DAVID: And I’d like to premise it by saying that I do actually believe that this is the most important loyalty program of my career.

PAULA: My goodness.

DAVID: And it’s something that I’m very, very proud of.

DAVID: Everything kind of starts with a mission.

DAVID: And so, well, you think about what’s the problem you’re trying to solve?

DAVID: And then is there a mission that we can get behind?

DAVID: And one of the biggest challenges, certainly in the United States, I actually think this is probably a challenge globally, but let’s start in the United States, where young people in the rental community today are spending the biggest portion of their monthly income is being consumed by rent.

DAVID: And today they get nothing for it.

DAVID: So while you might have retail programs, travel programs, and so forth, Yeah.

DAVID: a lot of those, they don’t add up to your largest monthly expense.

DAVID: Yeah.

DAVID: So we wanted to see, was there a way in which we could start rewarding that type of expense?

DAVID: But the more and more we kind of thought about, as we kind of were drawing this out on a board and saying, okay, how can we make rent more rewarding?

DAVID: We realized that there was a much bigger mission here.

DAVID: And what that is, is giving people a pathway to home ownership.

DAVID: So not only are you rewarding your on time rent payments, we’re also creating a pathway over time to home ownership.

DAVID: So how are we doing that?

PAULA: Yeah.

DAVID: Well, there’s a couple of ways we’re doing it.

DAVID: We’re allowing you to obviously accumulate points based on rent.

DAVID: Now you can, by the way, you can use those points in many, many ways, and I’ll get into that in a second.

DAVID: But you can also accumulate these points and use them towards a down payment on a home.

DAVID: A second stream to that is, and this is a little unknown that we were surprised about when we were kind of building this out, but your highest monthly expense in the United States today, if you pay on time payments, do not get reported to the credit agencies.

DAVID: So that in and of itself is an opportunity, because young people who are trying to build their credit scores over time, we’re not getting any credit for their largest monthly expense.

PAULA: My goodness.

DAVID: So Bilt is now not only going to reward you for your rental payments, but we’re also going to report those on time rent payments to the credit agencies and build your credit score.

DAVID: So that’s significant, because over the lifetime of a renter, if you continuously build your credit score based on that highest payment, that’s actually going to save you thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of dollars when you’re trying to originate a mortgage.

DAVID: So we are building a pathway to homeownership.

DAVID: Now, I also said that there are multiple other ways that you can earn.

DAVID: So what we wanted to do was ensure that Bilt members, while accumulating Bilt points, we’re going to be able to use those points towards rent, but also we need it to be relevant in their everyday life.

DAVID: And the way that we’re going to do that is by building an ecosystem of partnerships that allows them to transfer on a one-to-one basis, by the way, into a number of different airline partners, hotels, also into fitness and lifestyle programs.

DAVID: We’ve also built out a very, very highly curated catalog with the Bilt collection.

DAVID: We’re also kind of introducing an educational element through our editorials.

DAVID: So a lot of people, certainly in the millennial and Gen Z audience, and I mean this very respectfully to them, but a lot of people hear about points and miles, currencies and whatever, and they don’t really understand the true value.

DAVID: Now some people can go to the points guy and there’s some really great information there that you can source.

DAVID: But what we wanna do as part of the Bilt Rewards experience is also educate people on how they can maximize their currency.

PAULA: Okay.

DAVID: So what is the best way that you can use Bilt Rewards should you want to travel?

DAVID: So if you download the Bilt Rewards app, you’ll be able to go into a lot of the editorials in there are very educational.

DAVID: If you wanted to, let’s say travel to Dubai or beyond, what is the best way in which you can do that?

DAVID: And certainly with our partner, we have a partnership with Emirates that allows you to transfer your Bilt Rewards into Skywards.

DAVID: We’ve also got a partnership with American Airlines.

DAVID: We’ve got a partnership with Air France KLM, Aeroplan, Hawaiian Airlines, Turkish Airlines.

DAVID: So when you start Virgin, we’ve also done a partnership with Virgin Points.

DAVID: So when you start looking at those airlines that we have within that ecosystem, we touch all three major alliances.

DAVID: Sky Team, One World and Star Alliance.

DAVID: And then you’ve got niche partners like Emirates and Hawaiian that really kind of bring a different level of experience.

DAVID: But allowing our members access on a one-to-one basis to those types of partners can be hugely rewarding.

PAULA: Absolutely.

DAVID: But the other thing, you mentioned the word relevant at the beginning.

DAVID: Relevancy to me is key to everything that you should be doing in a loyalty program.

DAVID: You really need to be relevant at every touch point.

DAVID: And to me, and one of the reasons why I’m saying that Bilt Rewards is going to be one of the most, if not the most important program of my career, is it truly is a lifelong loyalty program because it’s relevant from your very first rent payment all the way to home ownership.

DAVID: Now that’s significant.

DAVID: And when you start looking at those types of problems, so I spoke about, you start with the problem.

DAVID: You have young people that are paying rents that are skyrocketing.

DAVID: Wages are not kind of, or salaries are not staying in line with the increase in rent.

DAVID: And real estate, so home ownership is getting further away.

DAVID: So by creating a program that puts you on the path to that, I think is truly rewarding.

DAVID: So it’s been perfectly received.

PAULA: Oh my goodness.

PAULA: And it’s actually still brand new, Dave.

PAULA: Am I right?

PAULA: I think you launched in June, and here we are in August.

PAULA: So kind of eight weeks old, like literally hot off the presses.

DAVID: It is.

DAVID: It is hot off the presses.

DAVID: We launched it in June 22nd of 2021.

PAULA: Yeah.

DAVID: So it’s a program that there have been a lot of amazingly talented people in Bilt have kind of come together to create this.

DAVID: And it was all built through COVID, which is even more astounding.

PAULA: Yeah.

DAVID: Because when I sat down with the founder and CEO, Ankur Jain, in his New York office, and we discussed some of the ideas around, first of all, where this started was Ankur had this idea, and he asked me, how can we do this?

DAVID: And we sat down and we kind of ideated this and went over, you know, we had a very long dinner, which was quite enjoyable, but that was the night, that actually was the night when the world heard that Tom Hanks had got COVID.

DAVID: And in the United States, that was like, oh, my God, we need to take this seriously.

DAVID: Totally.

DAVID: You know, I probably say that tongue in cheek, and I don’t mean to kind of make light of COVID, but it was the night that that announcement came out, the NBA shut down, the president announced that the borders were being closed and so forth.

PAULA: Yeah.

DAVID: So all those things kind of happened, collided at the same time.

DAVID: So all of a sudden, we started building this team through Zoom.

DAVID: And, you know, we were recruiting through Zoom.

DAVID: And it was an amazing journey.

DAVID: But coming together, the other interesting thing about it was people asked me about the fact, I can’t believe this hasn’t been done before.

PAULA: Exactly.

DAVID: And, you know, I asked myself the same thing.

PAULA: Yeah, why not?

DAVID: But sometimes the most simple ideas are the best.

DAVID: And I think one of the keys to our success was really kind of looking at it holistically.

DAVID: So not only did we look at it from the consumer perspective, but we also looked at it from the landlord perspective.

PAULA: This was going to be my question, actually, Dave.

PAULA: And I’m guessing that’s the revenue model.

PAULA: And that’s essentially who’s paying for the points.

PAULA: Am I right?

PAULA: Is that part of the overall need and problem that Ankur was trying to fix when he came up with this vision?

DAVID: Yes.

DAVID: So what we wanted to do was we wanted to be able to demonstrate to the landlord and real estate community that the cost of acquisition of a resident and the cost of retention of a resident is quite high.

DAVID: So being able to go to landlords and say, look, we can actually create a program that allows you to not only incent new residents, but also allow you to retain good residents.

DAVID: Yeah.

DAVID: It just makes sense.

DAVID: So what we did was we built what we’re calling the, pardon the pun, but we created the Bilt Rewards Alliance, which is actually an alliance of all of the top real estate companies in the United States.

DAVID: They all basically became part of the Bilt Rewards Alliance, whether it be Related, whether it be Starwood, whether it be Artemis, whether it be Camden, all of them.

DAVID: They all came together to create the Bilt Rewards Alliance.

DAVID: And these are a group of owners who basically saw the value in creating a program that not only rewards on time payment, because, by the way, rewarding on time payment also gives the landlord an element of assurance that they’re going to get paid on time.

PAULA: Amazing.

PAULA: But you had to create that alliance, Dave.

PAULA: Sorry to cut over you, but I was wondering about this.

PAULA: So there wasn’t an existing community of landlords who had identified the commercial problems, which clearly is their top pain point, I’m sure.

PAULA: But this was something that you essentially went to them and say, we’ve noticed your pain point, and we can see it matches up with the consumer pain point.

PAULA: And how about we fix that for you in between?

DAVID: Yeah, so not me personally, but certainly the company and the real estate team went out and explained, first of all, the proposition of Bilt.

DAVID: So all of those organizations work as independent businesses.

DAVID: And what we were able to do was say to them, look, we’re creating a program that we think can be helpful to you.

DAVID: So we kind of went on selling them on a vision and asking them to kind of take.

DAVID: And by the way, not just the real estate partners, but all of our partners, we basically were asking them to take a leap of faith with us.

DAVID: Of course.

DAVID: And I think it’s been truly kind of validating to us that so many have kind of come on board so quickly to create this kind of ecosystem.

DAVID: But certainly getting the landlords and the real estate owners involved early was a huge shift, because that really showed us that there was a significant interest in doing this.

DAVID: And it made sure that we could create a program that wasn’t kind of like a onesie, twosie fly by night.

PAULA: Totally.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And I saw the level of ambition, Dave, as well.

PAULA: I’m not sure how far geographically your real estate team has got.

PAULA: Of course, I signed up in the hopeful anticipation that Dubai might be next on the list, because I’m renting and I can tell you, I would love some Skyward Smiles or the likes in return.

PAULA: But geographically, then, given you’re eight weeks old, as we said, is it limited to New York at the moment?

PAULA: I know you’re planning nationwide, certainly in the US, but what’s the vision?

DAVID: The vision is certainly the whole market of the United States initially.

DAVID: Now, the Bilt Rewards Alliance essentially just covers that.

DAVID: So we’re starting off with two million apartments already as part of the Bilt Rewards Alliance.

DAVID: So and if you think about that from the perspective of, and that’s just at launch.

DAVID: So if you think about one and a half residents per unit, all of a sudden, you’re at three million Bilt Rewards members pretty quickly.

PAULA: Yeah.

DAVID: Now, we’re like we’ve just touched on, we’re like eight weeks in here.

DAVID: So we’re kind of switching these properties on in a very kind of deliberate way, because it’s important for us to ensure that the proposition is right.

DAVID: Operationally, we need to kind of make sure the training is in place.

DAVID: We need to ensure that the residents understand the proposition and so forth.

DAVID: And I also think one of the keys to success in any loyalty program, by the way, not just at Bilt, but any loyalty program is continuously listening to your customer.

DAVID: And one of the things, and I have a reputation for making sure that we continuously engage with customers.

DAVID: And certainly at JetBlue, when we created True Blue, and we took that kind of risk in creating a loyalty program based on revenue, educating the membership base.

DAVID: The most important thing was listening to the customer, hearing what their experience was, and then being able to adjust.

DAVID: So while our core proposition kind of out of the gate, we believe is very, very strong.

DAVID: We want to continuously listen to the customer.

DAVID: And if there are ways in which we can tweak, evolve, adjust and so forth, going forward, we’re going to do that.

DAVID: Now, a good example of that, if I can go back to JetBlue for a second, but a good example of that is in listening to your customer base was when we created TrueBlue and we went from a distance based model of miles to now a revenue based model, we also understood that customers who were flying long distances regularly were always going to feel a little bit, hang on a second, this doesn’t add up.

DAVID: And we introduced a thing back then called the go long bonus.

DAVID: And what that meant was if you had 10 flights that were over a certain distance, we would reward you with 10,000 points.

DAVID: So I think when we first launched, that distance number was about 2000 miles.

DAVID: And the reason we had done that was we were looking at people who were flying from east to west coast.

DAVID: And rewarding them.

DAVID: And I remember quite proudly having a member event in Boston at the Boston Opera House.

DAVID: And I was entertaining some True Blue members.

DAVID: And part of the conversation with one particular member was, hey, I really like what you’ve done with True Blue, but there’s one thing that really annoys me.

PAULA: There’s always one.

DAVID: But I kind of went, okay, well, I’m intrigued.

DAVID: And he said that go long bonus really kind of gets to me because I fly from Boston to Denver every week.

DAVID: And to me, sitting on the aircraft, I feel like I’m on that thing for four and a half hours, five hours.

PAULA: Yeah.

DAVID: And to me, that’s a long haul.

DAVID: And I’m not getting that long haul bonus.

DAVID: And I went back to the team with arms, with that type of feedback and said, hey, what would happen?

DAVID: First of all, how far is Denver?

DAVID: So we started looking at that.

DAVID: And then I said, OK, what would happen if we reduced that from 2000 miles to, I can’t remember what it was, let’s say 1600?

DAVID: What would happen?

DAVID: And what we realized was that would actually open up about 36 new routes that would qualify for the go along.

DAVID: So we were able to take that type of feedback listening by listening to our customers and implement a change to the model.

DAVID: And then we were able to go out to our customer base and said with the market that, look, we’ve been listening to you and we’re adjusting based on what you’re telling us.

DAVID: Now, so that’s just one example.

DAVID: I see us continuously doing that with Bilt as well.

DAVID: We’re going to continuously listen to our landlords and our partners.

DAVID: We’re also going to listen to our residents.

DAVID: And if there are things that we can adjust, we’ll make those adjustments.

DAVID: We’re very proud of the proposition that we have.

DAVID: We think it’s going to resonate.

DAVID: Again, it’s rewarding your highest monthly expense.

DAVID: And to me, that cannot be understated.

PAULA: It’s genius.

PAULA: Honestly, I’d say your head nearly exploded.

PAULA: I could just imagine that dinner meeting, because you referred to it last time we spoke as well.

PAULA: And actually, even I did look up your CEO as well, Dave, just because I love to know, particularly with something that is so innovative.

PAULA: And I mean, I use that word.

PAULA: It’s another of my favorite words.

PAULA: Like, what can we do that’s totally different?

PAULA: And I know that Ankur Jain, your CEO, worked in Tinder, for example, and lots of other tech startups.

PAULA: So clearly has the type of mentality that I think often is quite missing in loyalty.

PAULA: I think a lot of us have been maybe around a little bit too long, and we need to kind of stir things up a bit more.

DAVID: Yeah, I think I’ve been very fortunate to work with Ankur.

DAVID: Ankur has got an infectious energy.

DAVID: And an eagerness to continuously learn.

DAVID: And it’s quite awe-inspiring actually to be working with him because when he first met with me, he quite casually threw his hands up and said, look, I have this idea, but I really don’t know how to make it happen.

DAVID: Can you help?

DAVID: And, you know, certainly I was intrigued by the idea, but I’ve been more impressed with Ankur’s eagerness to learn.

DAVID: He’s become an incredible student of loyalty and the whole science behind it.

PAULA: Okay.

DAVID: And he can probably almost explain the program better than I can at this point.

DAVID: It’s extraordinary.

DAVID: So, you know, from somebody who has an idea, he wasn’t just interested in kind of having guys go and do it.

DAVID: He was also interested in understanding every single element of it.

DAVID: And in doing that, that kind of passion feeds through the organization.

PAULA: Totally.

DAVID: So the culture of Bilt is about constantly learning about all aspects of our business.

DAVID: I mean, I never thought that I’d be learning about real estate.

DAVID: To me, it’s a fascinating space.

DAVID: And, you know, I’m intrigued by it.

DAVID: The whole banking side is really, really extraordinary.

PAULA: Of course.

DAVID: And then I have to shout out to our engineers because they have been phenomenal in not just kind of building this from scratch, but also building it in a way that allows us to continuously innovate and add different dimensions to it.

DAVID: But that all comes from the top.

DAVID: That comes from Ankur’s energy.

DAVID: You know, yeah, he was part of Tinder.

DAVID: But he had businesses before Tinder.

DAVID: I mean, Tinder acquired his company.

DAVID: You know, and as part of the Kairos umbrella, and Kairos is the company that Ankur founded, there are a number of different companies that he’s invested in, whether it be in health care, whether it be in housing and education.

DAVID: So there’s a number of different things that Ankur is very passionate about.

DAVID: But he’s also passionate about bringing great ideas to life.

DAVID: And I think I mentioned his infectious kind of personality.

DAVID: That really does inspire us all to be at our very best at all times.

DAVID: And I think that’s what gives me confidence for the future of where Bilt can go.

DAVID: It’s because that marries very, very well with what I spoke about in listening to your customer base.

DAVID: So not being satisfied with what you’ve just developed today, but continuously looking to improve it.

DAVID: And I think that’s the culture of Bilt.

DAVID: And that definitely stems from Ankur.

PAULA: And my final question was exactly about where can it go, Dave?

PAULA: And I mean that in both ways.

PAULA: So, first of all, geographically, can we first of all get it to our home country of Ireland?

PAULA: Because it would be remiss if I did not let my listeners know that Dave Canty is from Cork, which is very exciting to me.

DAVID: Up the revels.

PAULA: The Dublin-Cork rivalry may not be understood by everybody listening, but anyway, I’m sure you’ll appreciate it.

PAULA: So geographically, I mean, is there an opportunity to do this around the world?

PAULA: And the second part of that question, Dave, is around commercial real estate.

PAULA: And we’ve already talked about COVID.

PAULA: I think commercial property is on its knees.

PAULA: And my understanding from outside of the industry, but do you think there’s a possibility for a model to do this on the B2B side of real estate?

DAVID: I think there is.

DAVID: But just to be transparent, I think it’s important for us to get the rental market right first for residential.

PAULA: For North America.

DAVID: And just for residential.

PAULA: Makes sense.

DAVID: Immediately.

DAVID: So, you know, that’s the first thing we want to tackle.

DAVID: We’re eight weeks into it.

DAVID: We want to make sure that we get it right.

DAVID: Yeah.

DAVID: But it is an onion.

DAVID: There are many layers to it.

DAVID: And commercial is certainly a layer that we will look at.

DAVID: Geographically, obviously, our focus is in the United States initially.

DAVID: But certainly, we think it is a portable program.

DAVID: And when we’re ready, I think you will see us look at opportunities abroad.

DAVID: So we’ll see where it goes.

DAVID: We get these questions all the time in the sense that we’ve launched and we’re asking for feedback.

DAVID: And we’re already getting questions on the commercial side.

DAVID: We’re getting questions on, can you do it for mortgages?

DAVID: So homeowners already are asking, well, can you reward me for my mortgage?

DAVID: There’s multiple different things that we’re going to look at.

DAVID: But I think it’s important that we’ve made a commitment to the rental community to be a program that really allows them to find some level of reward from their rents and to give them the opportunity to get on the ladder of homeownership.

DAVID: So that’s our kind of starting commitment.

DAVID: I think if we can nail that, we’ll be tremendously proud.

DAVID: But at the same time, we will continuously look at opportunities to expand it.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And you did use the words earlier, Dave, already, which I’m not very good at.

PAULA: You said be patient.

PAULA: And I think he used it in the context of JetBlue.

PAULA: But you could hear I get excited, I get carried away, and I want it all tomorrow.

DAVID: Listen, it’s something that I’ve had to get comfortable with myself as well.

DAVID: And working with Ankur, like I said, he’s got an infectious appetite to continuously challenge us to.

DAVID: But I sometimes look at him and he sees my face now in some ways and the expressions I have.

DAVID: And he knows when I’m going, okay, let’s pump the brakes here for a minute.

DAVID: I love the fact that there are many different layers that we can go to here.

DAVID: And the other thing as well, just before we end, is I actually think that this can be a huge stimulus, by the way, to the travel industry.

DAVID: And hence, we’ve created this ecosystem where you can transfer on a one-to-one basis to all of these airlines and hotels.

DAVID: And this is an opportunity for our partners to get access to the younger demographic.

DAVID: So it’s mainly millennial and Gen Z that are in this kind of space.

DAVID: And this is an audience that hasn’t yet really established a loyalty to a specific travel company.

DAVID: So by tapping into that, we’re actually stimulating and we’re opening up the opportunity of travel to them.

DAVID: And I think it kind of goes back to my comments about educational elements as well.

DAVID: So educating them on how they can maximize their points with our travel partners is also an opportunity to really educate them on the power of loyalty programs and how it can open up the whole globe to them.

DAVID: So I do see this not just solving for the real estate and housing, but it also can be a stimulus to travel.

PAULA: Yes, yeah.

PAULA: And she used another lovely term as well, Dave, earlier, which was a lifelong loyalty program.

PAULA: And I totally hear that coming through in this concept.

PAULA: And certainly with my experience, every piece of research that I have seen on loyalty with Gen Z and with younger customers exactly says loyalty is not working for them.

PAULA: Like there actually is a major problem with, yes, the idea, they love the concept, they totally bought into the idea of reciprocity.

PAULA: And then they look at the reality and they go, not for me.

PAULA: It’s just not working.

PAULA: So I think you’ve actually, you know, stimulated a lot of people to realize that core problem.

PAULA: And as you said, identify something that’s hugely relevant for the first time.

DAVID: Totally.

DAVID: And I think that’s going to be very important.

DAVID: So bringing all those things together, so educating them on the value proposition, allowing them to realize value early through redemption and continuously listening and understanding their needs, their concerns, the challenges that they have, and seeing if there’s ways in which we can address those, I think allows us to continuously be relevant.

DAVID: And then, of course, building out partners who want to be part of that ecosystem to ensure that the overall experience continues to build is going to be important.

PAULA: My goodness.

PAULA: Well, I have to say, Dave, I’m utterly inspired by what you’re doing.

PAULA: I think you can hear it coming through.

PAULA: I totally drunk the Kool-Aid.

PAULA: So I think there’ll be lots of people who probably want to get in touch with you and follow your work.

PAULA: Dave, so where’s the best place for people to find you?

DAVID: Sure, they can reach out to me at Dave at biltrewards.com.

DAVID: It’s very simple.

DAVID: So happy to take their questions, follow up, or if they’re interested in partnering with us, I’m happy to hear what those opportunities are as well.

DAVID: And I may actually be at the loyalty conference in Dubai in October.

PAULA: Oh, my goodness.

PAULA: Okay, well, we will make sure there’s a prime seat available for you, Dave.

PAULA: And just as you say, Bilt Rewards, I thought a couple of times we should really be clear that’s B-I-L-T.

PAULA: So just in case people are confused, I’ll obviously make sure to link to you and to Bilt Rewards as well and the show notes as well, Dave, obviously, to make sure people can find you and they can obviously reach out to me as well if they want to get to you.

PAULA: So that’s it.

PAULA: Any final closing comments before we wrap up?

DAVID: No, Trivik Pala, thanks very much for having me on.

DAVID: I really enjoy the show.

DAVID: I’m an avid listener.

DAVID: And, you know, as somebody who has been in loyalty for for I’m just shy of 30 years.

DAVID: You know, it’s great to have have have an Irish person lead this type of initiative with your podcast.

DAVID: It’s tremendous.

DAVID: Thank you.

PAULA: Oh, brilliant, brilliant stuff.

PAULA: Well, listen, Dave Canty, head of loyalty and partnerships at Bilt Rewards.

PAULA: Thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketeer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research.

PAULA: The Wise Marketeer also offers loyalty marketing training through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 170 executives in 20 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: For more information, check out thewisemarketeer.com and loyaltyacademy.org.

PAULA: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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