#339: Unlocking Irrational Loyalty

Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.

The 2023 Consumer Trends Index, shares attitudes and desires from over 10,000 consumers on topics such as purchase behavior, preferred marketing channels, privacy and data, as well as what drives loyalty with their favorite brands. You can get your complimentary copy of this report along with access to several free webinars by visiting meetmarigold.com. Marigold is the home of Cheetah Loyalty, delivering world-class MarTech solutions and industry expertise designed to help marketers of all sizes grow the relationships that grow their business. Learn more at meetmarigold.com.

Hello and welcome to episode 339 of Let’s Talk Loyalty. Today I’m delighted to be exploring loyalty from a strategic marketing perspective, learning what drives loyalty as an outcome, and as a feeling rather than any one particular loyalty program. My guest is Jason Foo, the Founder and CEO of a London-based agency called BBD Perfect Storm, which specializes in brand and culture transformation, with the goal of unlocking irrational loyalty for its clients from their customers.

Jason is also a global board director and treasurer of the Marketing Society. He’s a marketing fellow and he’s on the advisory board of the Alliance of Independent Agencies, along with all this serious stuff. Jason is also super great fun. So for anyone looking for loyalty, inspiration with a healthy dose of mischief, make sure you connect with them on LinkedIn.

I hope you enjoy our conversation.

Paula: So Jason Foo welcome to Let Talk Loyalty.

Jason: Thank you very much Paula and uh, a warm welcome from a very cold London.

Paula: Indeed, uh, a cold London, and I know you very regularly get to visit us here in our lovely city of Dubai, so, um, always a pleasure and I’ve been wanting to talk to you about loyalty for a very long time, so this is, uh, very exciting for me.

Um, so before we get into talking about all things loyalty, Jason, as you know, I always like to start this show really to understand from a personal perspective as a professional in the industry. What is your personal favorite loyalty program, Jason?

Jason: Thank you, Paula. Well, uh, well, as you said, I do, uh, I do get to travel to the Middle East and, and India’s part of my job to many other parts of the world.

So invariably, I think one of the, uh, travel and hotel programs is inevitably going to feature quite strongly within my life. And so, uh, the program that stands out to me is Marriott Bonvoy. Okay. And the reason for that is, uh, sure they do things like, uh, enable you to redeem points for free hotel nights and things like that, but that’s not really what connects me to them.

I think Marriott Bonvoy do a tremendous job of really being an emotionally experience led program that enables you to, to share those experiences with people. Okay. Marriott Bonvoy to me.

Paula: Okay. And we haven’t had them on the show yet, Jason, so if you’ve got any, uh, you know, secret connections, please do let them know.

Or if anybody’s listening from Marriott Bonvoy, we would love to talk to you.

Jason: I must confess it, and this is what I quite open up, but they have actually just become a client as well. Congratulations. Wow. So, uh, so, so perhaps I could, uh, I could facilitate an introduction.

Paula: Okey dokey. Brilliant stuff. Well, listen, that is specifically actually my selfish agenda in asking that opening question because I’m always kind of fishing for, for new guests.

So, um, so it has multi, multi benefits from our side, so, Excellent. Listen, um, you are the founder and CEO of BBD, Perfect Storm, and I was very struck by the name actually Jason, because. I suppose I know you from your work, um, from of some of the clients, some of the projects of course through the Marketing Society as well, which we’ll talk about today, but I just really thought, you know, Perfect Storm is, um, is a very, um, insightful term and you know, clearly there’s a very clear reason that any company chooses its name.

So I wanted you to explain exactly where did you come up with this name? BBD Perfect Storm.

Jason: Thank you Paula. Yeah. And Perfect Storm, uh, is meant to be something that’s naturally emotionally memorable. Hopefully, um, all good brand needs are, but, um, but it also signifies the kind of intersection we set up in terms of consumers, um, increasingly questioning the, the role of brands within their lives, within society.

Yeah. Um, the explosion of channels of, uh, media, and the, uh, the demands and, and challenges that puts on consumer attention. And, um, and I guess how one navigates through that in terms of creativity and, uh, data storytelling. So it really just feels like that storm of forces and how you could harness those to, to powerful effect to hopefully bring outcomes for, for your plans and for your consumers.

Paula: And, and what also struck me was the fact that you came up with that name in 2013. So 10 years ago. Um, obviously you were noticing, observing and feeling, and I think we were as consumers as well. But dare I say it, in 2023, the storm is stormier. . The cliches are, are coming out. Pick and strong here, Jason.

But genuinely, I mean, I really do think that the world feels like an even more difficult place for a lot of people.

Jason: Indeed. And, and, um, when we started the company in 2013, and, and we’re a brand and cultural transformation company, we, we believe that, that’s the part of that, um, the role of purpose in would become even more important to, to marketing, to organizations and to society.

And so I guess, Through that, as you’ve observed, actually, purpose is increasingly question that organizations are asking themselves and, and in a society where things are ever strongly, as you say politically, socioeconomically, in business terms, um, I think purpose plays an important part in, in how we’ll navigate through.

Paula: And would you say the kind of clients you were dealing with 10 years ago were already clear on that? On the role of purpose, Jason? Because to me it’s probably only come on my radar. You know, maybe four or five years ago, like the strength and the power of a purpose led brand. And I think about the audience and everybody listening to us having this conversation today.

And I think I said to you last time, Jason, the reason I fell in love with the loyalty industry was because it gave me a sense of having a purpose, to take care of and literally love my customers because let’s be honest, at the end of the day, customers are your only source of revenue. And I was lucky enough to work on a program, a loyalty program in Ireland, where absolutely that sense of integrity came through.

So, but purpose is almost a level up, I believe, in terms of the strategy and how brands can, can really behave and become more relevant in the world. So, so I guess what I’m asking you is, was that early thinking for a lot of brands when you started talking about it, and where are they at now in 2023?

Jason: It, it was early thinking and I guess, uh, you, as with all things in life, I believe that you, uh, you tend to get back what, what you put out to some extent or what you put out, determine what we get back, again, our purpose is that we exist to building programs from which the world benefit. And, Nice. If you’re very, if you’re very clear about, it’s extraordinary organizations that wants to benefit the world and believe it they can have it them official envolvement in society, what’s absolutely being commercial entities come to you because they, they find like-minded thinking and values and beliefs. Yeah, so, so our, our really concept, were very helpful and I guess instrumentally in shaping the work we did together. And we said to attract the like minded organizations and without tremendously fortunate to work with lots of global companies that, that’s same purpose as an intrinsic part, not just of how they connect to their consumers, but of course how they, they provide inspiration and I guess, unlock discretionary effort to put in their own organization. Yeah. By being clear about the role they play in society and, and what they bring into the world.

Paula: Yeah. And do you think that the C-suite executives that you tend to meet are, are clear on, as you said, the commercial benefits of actually having a true purpose and being clear on that?

Uh, that’s a great question. Uh, I mean, I think the first question is probably actually a lot of C-suite. Are they absolutely clear on their organizational purpose?

Um, difference between kinda what they make and why they exist? Could, could into

crystallize purpose. Purpose.

Okay. Yes. Which I think in my experience, many lose over time. So I think it can be there at the, at the founding stages of an organization. But as we grow and as we scale, then perhaps it does get diluted. Um, and the commercial sometimes takes over from the sense of integrity and taking care of those customers.

Um, and, and sometimes they start looking for cheaper ways to do that. Again, well-intentioned, but when it comes to being loyal to your customers, I often feel there’s compromise along the way, and it sounds like your job is to kind of remind them of that and bring it back to a sense of why did we start this company in the first place?

Absolutely. And

c-Suites of the commercial benefits of purpose. Right. I guess in some ways that would. Does, you know, often purpose is is compared to things like, uh, vision emission and I would hopefully sort of feel like the guiding of the organization that then unlocks all of the other commercial benefits, having organization or pointing in the same direction.

Okay. Achieve

the same names. So you guys don’t set out to build loyalty programs just to be.

Jason: Well, we, we do, um, we do often help and advise organizations on naughty programs and we have consulted and indeed, but important that’s

challenges. Uh, and one of our beliefs is that too many people see loyalty. Yeah, we, and, and I would contend l is an objective. It’s a goal, it’s a consequence of creating a great, engaging, emotional and meaningful relationship with your consumer and a useful relationship with your consumer leads to is an outcome.

So consequently, yes. You know, sometimes a loyalty program is part of the pathway to achieving great consumer retention and loyalty. Yeah. But it’s noting point

to, to work with a number of global brands on, on how they optimize their, their programs and indeed evolve them into to more future facing pro. .

Paula: Yeah. And I do think the optimization piece, um, you know, really has come to the forefront there. I say it through the, um, more recent difficult years with the pandemic, for example.

I mean, my experience, Jason, has been that loyalty programs and loyalty professionals listening to this show have grown in terms of their role within organizations, the level of respect. They are seen to have, has absolutely taken on a whole new meaning. And I would love to know, do you, do you feel that that’s happening both in terms of the people maybe that you meet through the marketing society and of course through your own clients?

Jason: Absolutely. And I think you reference the pandemic’s an interesting one because, uh, the pandemic represented the worst recession in, uh, in three years. And as you we’re, we’re moving into, uh, in parts of the world, increasingly difficult economic times again. Yeah. And interestingly through the pandemic, um, I look for.

For example, airline naughty programs, they were the only part of the business that was actually making any money. So, you know, whereas airline programs have been seen as, A part of the business that, uh, takes away revenue from airlines because yeah, they provide free seats through points which might have otherwise been sold as revenue.

Yeah. Suddenly during planes flying profile, through their first partnerships, et cetera, became super prominent and more broadly, as we, we move into, uh, challenging economic times at the moment. One of the great, um, mantras of, of customer retention in loyalty is that it’s five, 10 times, uh, cheaper to retain a customer than its to acquire a new one.

Yeah, so this means the loyalty. This is.

To step forward and stand up and be that beacon to the organization is to, yeah. So what can be done to, to drive it forward in changing economic circumstances.

Paula: And equally Jason, and you are preaching to the converter clearly with my audience. What I also worry about, and I know you do as well, is that there’s an awful lot of loyalty programs that are not working, and I think as we come through, as you said, whether it’s recessionary times or you know, just good business management, everyone listening to this show I know was in a position that I was in for many years, which is justifying and defending.

What really generally is, um, a significant investment, a huge amount of spend. So, you know, as you said, it, it, it absolutely makes more sense to retain our customers. We absolutely know that. But given how difficult it is to measure. The actual performance of a program as such, like what kind of advice would you give to loyalty professionals listening to this show who are again, fully convinced, you know, uh, preaching to the converted, but actually have a management team that want to understand why is it that loyalty’s time has come?

So please, God, we’re coming out again of pandemics and recessions and recovering, but still the investment has to happen. So what would you say to those kind of people? Well, I guess my,

Jason: my first challenge would be, and as you said, there’s a, that aren’t working reason, they’re not working.

Broadly speaking, I think that there’s uh, there’s deal naughty and there’s wheel naughty. Ok. And far, far too many naughty programs lack differentiation. And they fall into the trap of loyalty being essentially a series of promotions. Discounts and points. Points based offers. Yeah. That’s transactional law too.

It’s rational. Yeah. And if we’re really trying to, you know, And you know, a rational relationship is, that sounds like an oxon to me. Relationships

Paula: not fun.

Jason: Relationships are emotional. Yes. So the question is relationship’s about which is actually made meant the consumer’s life easier, better. And more, more meaningful to the things that, to the things that matter to them.

When, when I look at faring reliability programs, I, I question how are they meaningfully conveying the essence of the brand that they represent? Or are they getting caught into the vortex and the race to the bottom of, as I say, points discounts, and. As opposed to absolutely representing and being the essence of, of what that organization, that brand stands for.

Mm-hmm. And being able to articulate that to the, to the customer in the most meaningful, empathetic way with, of what’s important that customer and around them in that. So, so my, my challenge to it, to your audience is are you offering dual loyalty or are you creating real loyalty?

Paula: Okay. That sound bite of the show, Jason, I think right there, Hal.

Totally. No, and I do agree, and, and it, it certainly wouldn’t be the first time in this show that we talked about transactional loyalty versus, um, emotional loyalty. Um, so I, I, but I think you’re absolutely right. You’ve nailed it like most people are going. Absolutely. But how, and I know you’ve done some incredible work and you have really designed, launched, and built things, which.

I, I think what what strikes me is, first of all, as a human being, is that I actually feel the purpose of the brand coming through in the work that I’ve seen that you’re doing. And it’s why I wanted to have you on the show to, to see where that kind of, you know, feeling comes from. Like, like how do you go about creating emotional Lloyd your, can you give us some examples of, of how you’ve managed to do that?

So, Certainly.

Jason: And um, and when we talk about the how, I think, I think there’s, I guess sort of structural aspects and then there’s more sort strategic aspects and maybe we’ll, structural aspects, firsts. Okay. So, so, so structurally I think that, uh, modern. Modern loyalty programs for, for want a better way, describing them, um, need to think about their pathway from program to platform to ecosystem.

The, the truth is the world does, does probably not need another loyalty program. There’s already too many loyalty programs in the world. If we talk about, uh, your region and, and the uaa, I believe in the last. Four months, something like eight or nine new loyalty programs have entered the market. Yeah. And we’re talking about country with a population.

Yeah. And all of those programs

straightforward that. They can’t possibly succeed in, in that endeavor. Questions will succeed. How do they

platform well naughty programs and the better ones do at least seek to convey. Of the brand that they represent. They, uh, the better run programs will offer high levels of personalization, customization, perhaps gamification, et cetera, but relatively still sort of tactical adjustments and improvements that they’re fundamentally integrating themselves in, in useful, meaningful barriers into their consumer’s lives.

Yeah. I believe that the way that they can is by moving them to, to becoming a platform and, and how you become a platform. What is the platform? The platform is when you become the interface between you and the organization that you are representing to the consumer. Mm-hmm. . So that when, when they engage that platform, you’re genuinely making their life easier, better.

More useful, rewarding, and meaningful. So nice. Yeah, I mean, let lemme, and sometimes that involves things like points, but more fundamentally as, say it’s about a deeper integration into the consumer. So for example, I’m a, I’m someone that, uh, well have a bit of downtime, quite like to, uh, go for a run bit of, I guess, physical meditation.

Now, I’m not a serious runner, but I, I do like to use the like running club. Okay. Which I think is quite a useful platform in that it tracks my little bit of coaching and inspiration, but as a result of that, understands my habits, uh, and uses that data to then offer me relevant products, services, et cetera, but then enhances my relat, provides that, that value exchange that’s mutually rewarding to, to both parties.

So a super useful platform. Ultimately, I think if, if you, if you can get to that and, but there’s many other examples of great platform. But I think if you can become that interface that then gives you the opportunity to start to build your ecosystem. Because as I say, we’re, we’re not, most programs are no longer trying to build shared wallets.

They’re trying to build shared life. Yeah. And the way that you build shared life is, is being able to serve the different parts of the consumers life that you understand and provide. And. I mean, a great example for example, that, uh, I dunno if you’re Discovery, which is South African Course Insurance Company and, uh, within the uk they operate vital Yes.

Vital, very approach to insurance. So, uh, they reward you for living a more healthy and active lifestyle. Yeah. And, and. If the more you exercise and and adopt healthy habits, the lower your insurance premiums. There’s lots of as one providing lots of different lifestyle benefits. Yeah. And then they support that of the lifestyle benefits that.

Cinema tickets and Starbucks, coffee to hotel, as well as a, a, uh, an ecosystem of products from car insurance, which involves safer driving to health, health insurance to et cetera. Yeah, very clever ecosystem of both benefits and rewards aligned to, uh, to the product.

Paula: It’s the first time I’ve heard the phrase, uh, share of wallet, uh, moving to share of life.

So I think that’s a, a big one. I’ve heard some airline programs, of course, on this show, um, articulated, but not, um, I suppose in terms of a strategy, the way you’ve just explained it. So, so thank you for that. I do think that that’s probably something that everyone needs to be reflecting on because as you said, we, we just simply can’t sustain.

And none of us even engage with the number of loyalty programs. Even as loyalty professionals, like so many people, Jason, come to me and say, oh, what’s loyalty like in the uae? And honestly, there’s so few that I actually use that I’m almost embarrassed. I’m like, oops, , I’m

Jason: overwhelmed. Yeah, absolutely. How do we get you to the programs?

You do more by, by everyday engagement. And, and of course that’s, yeah. And you do that through life. And that’s the challenge I think, for many airlines is, you know, for the vast majority of people might take one or two flights a year Totally. In everyday relevance and themselves to be more of a lifestyle proposition by, yeah.

By creating everyday engagement. And to do that in a bit more of an e.

Paula: So it sounds like we, uh, need to be thinking about whether it’s partnerships, which is my background in loyalty, uh, coalition, absolutely. Consolidation. Am I, am I on the right track?

Jason: Absolutely. Um, category of Jason. Et cetera.

Paula: category adjacencies.

Oh my God, we’re here with all of the jargon. ,

Jason: sorry. Yeah, no, I’m relevant to course. Corporate

Paula: position. Totally. Totally. But, but I do think, and I, and I love the fact that you’ll talk about, uh, discovery as well, Jason, because when I’m asked that question, which, um, as you know, was not my favorite thing. Um, but when I’m asked my favorite loyalty program in the world, it’s always discovery in, in South Africa.

So the level of integrity, purpose. Authenticity. I mean, I can’t use enough superlatives, uh, to articulate. And you know, I have been, uh, promised that they’re coming on the show, um, in a couple of weeks time. So I won’t give anything away until we’ve got them fully booked. But it’s, it is an incredible story and.

I’ve worked in insurance, for example, as a sector, you know, again, advising on naughty programs in the Irish market, and we always had this kind of, you know, just, just incredible respect and love for what Discovery has at its heart. And I know it comes from the top down, which I know we, we often say is one of the core principles for, for loyalty programs to be successful is to have that sense of purpose, to have that c e o with a vision.

Adrian Gore, I believe I, I’ve just remembered just the name. Yes, exactly. That’s right. So, yeah. Yeah. And,

Jason: and that obviously explains now why you always look so healthy. Paula .

Paula: See, but I’m not the one out running Jason, so, Yeah. So listen, uae, you’ve done some incredible work here as well, Jason. We did, uh, we did talk to, uh, a couple of people and I suppose we still have a lot of programs in this market that we’re, we’re, we’re very keen to, um, you know, I suppose share the stories of, so, um, so we’ll definitely be building on what the UAE is doing as well as a market, because I dunno about you, but for me, what I love about this country, We always want to be like the best in the world.

And there is, I suppose, a willingness to invest and, and to get it right, you know? And we’re, I suppose we’re, we’re quite lucky that economically we’re doing pretty well. So tell us a bit about some of the programs you’ve been involved in this market.

Jason: Yeah. We’ve, we’ve been very, um, privileged to to, to do a lot of work in the ua and, and as you, as you say, Paul, one of the things I love about working in the.

A sense of ambition and belief and, and the desire to truly innovate and just challenge the conventional Yeah, which, which, uh, just makes for dream, um, partnerships and assignments with clients. We’ve been, uh, very fortunate that we were, uh, involved in the, uh, early development and, and a number of years ago, the relaunch of, uh, Skywood, uh, Emirate.

Uh, frequent fly program. Yeah. Uh, more recently we’ve been involved, uh, with Sha whom, uh, fantastic. Familiar with

retailer middle fortunate, co-develop, and, uh, Produced the share program for Magic Alpha. Incredible. This has quickly become one of the most, um, successful and and popular loyalty programs within the, within the uae. Mm-hmm. and, uh, and we’re delighted and very proud to, uh, work on the guest program with Airways.

Paula: Okay. My goodness. So what sounds like,

Jason: sorry, I should have mentioned obviously, uh, but bonvoy also now based in the uae,

Paula: so . Oh my goodness. I didn’t even know that. Wow. Absolutely incredible. So, and you counted for me last time, Jason. I’d never actually done the, um, the simple, um, the numbers. So 18 LAU programs in a country, as you said, of 10 million people.

So it does feel a little bit overwhelming from a consumer perspective at the moment. Would, would you agree? Yes. And,

Jason: and, um, and as you say, there’s, well, no one has cars in their wallets anymore. Yeah. But, uh, I do believe that consolidation. And, uh, and I, I think more, I think, uh, more broadly around the globe we’re releasing consolidation and, um, alliances and coalitions where point currencies are starting to be consolidated, which, which I wonder about, um, as a strategy.

But, but yeah, I think, um, I think we are gonna see consolidation and, uh, Only the strong will survive. I’m afraid to

Paula: say . . It’s very dramatic. Jason .

Jason: Well, I mean, ultimately, uh, much as I, I believe that, uh, business and commerce is, uh, should be purposeful. Yeah. Ultimately is, you know, it’s a competitive environment and, and unfortunately, I, I think some competitors will be squeezed.

Paula: Yeah. But I do think it’s, it’s, it’s a right, you know, I, it’s a good piece of advice. I, I, if I was a loyalty manager or director of a program, now listening to our conversation, it might be the first time that I would open up the possibility internally, for example, of do we need to go and become a, an ecosystem, as you’ve said, do we need to, uh, look more seriously at partnerships because, In, in my view, there’s been an, an awful lot, and I’m probably talking more about Ireland at the moment, but a lot of informal partnerships, contra bases, you know, quite gentle, but it, it seems that there may be a need to, to really take it more serious.

And I know you talked about loyalty as you know, the, the strategy side is distinct from the, the structural side, so, It almost sounds like the conversation needs to get, um, more serious actually to use that word, and to literally say, can we do this on our own? Can we fight and justify that that phone space instead of the, the, the wallet stuffing that we’ve all suffered from?

We also know that people are kind of blue in the face with them, you know, download this app and that app. And to your point earlier, actually, and, and you reminded me like one of my favorite observations when I look around the world, At maybe China, for example, and one of my most startling loyalty program, um, case studies that I, I saw won a Cannes Line award, which blew my mind, was Kentucky Fried Chicken.

And I mean, to me, that’s not a brand at all, but I would’ve held in such high esteem. But it actually developed and disrupted itself to the point where they built a super app and they literally said, we want to be incredibly useful for our, you know, I think it’s 500 million people they were targeting in terms of the, the, the, the demographic.

But they actually kind of said, We’re either going to be disrupted or we’re going to disrupt ourselves. And I actually saw those words on your website as well, Jason. Mm-hmm. . So, so it feels like that kind of, that huge proposition is almost as big as we need to be thinking.

Jason: Absolutely. I think, I think the great challenge is we, we all understand the nature relationships.

I mean, it’s, it’s, uh, It’s a thing of mutual exchange and yet, um, suddenly we, we go to work and we seem to sort of let that all go out the window. It’s about what value can we extract from our consumers? Paraphrase,

Your program know

Paula: your members can do for you. Could Exactly. You

Jason: can do for your, if you program last week and talked performance indicators.

Paula: Exactly.

Jason: But it seems to, what should you do? For your customers and and how much more useful can you be to your customers? And I think if you do that as you start from that lens.

Yeah. Then actually the benefits follow and never more so important than the challenging economic environment.

Paula: Absolutely, and, and certainly what I’ve learned Jason and I can hear coming through and everything that you speak about is they do feel it. Consumers know whether you are running a program in order to extract value from them or whether you’re genuinely trying to do something that’s meaningful.

So I think that was the light bulb that I didn’t have when I first started my first loyalty program and running it. But thankfully the brand had it. So oh two, as you know, is, is an incredibly powerful brand. So I think that’s the key lesson that I, that I’m learning from you. They,

Jason: they really do feel, I mean, uh, another of your guests that you’ve had on is the, uh, the wonderful Kim, and we’re, uh, we’re very privileged with Kim on program, but, uh, we talked a little bit about how does, how does the program represent the Essence brand?

And, uh, as you had is, uh, is on a pathway to, to become the world’s most thoughtful airline. Yeah. And, uh, and as you had guests, is, is seemed to be the worlds most thoughtful Yeah. Travel lifestyle program. And to your point, Felix, I mean, one of the, we a specific, um, communications campaign through, uh, through Covid with Kim was, uh, was all about saying, okay, in this time of covid, How can we create some moments of thoughtfulness?

Yeah. And rather than, and actually why don’t we go out to our members and, and say, we’d like to you for being thoughtful and can you nominate who you think is the most thoughtful person, you know? Yeah. To briefly sur many thousands of, of video entries of people doing incredible act support on us through Covid.

Yeah. But, uh, one particular family, um, Was nominated twice, both the father and the daughter.

Had decided to surprise, uh, both the father and the daughter with a kinda a mystery, uh, experience where Wow. Actually they flew in their family from around the world. Oh God, this, this amazing, sort of incredible, and yeah, well, was quite extraordinary as a result of that actually. Was that the, uh, the person being surprised for impress with Eddie and, and Mc.

He referred us to the, uh, the head of marathon. That’s quite hence, but, but, um,

The scores and the attribution of have, as a thoughtful program, have Absolutely. And it’s with specific wants to point the, it’s incredible to see Yeah. How, how, uh, thoughtfulness as, as a attribution to what you have is, is.

Paula: Incredible. And I do, I retain it every time. So, you know, Kim obviously speaks at a lot of loyalty industry conferences, and I’m always moved to tears, Jason, when she presents those, those campaigns around thoughtfulness.

And I know I’m not the only one. So, um, so well done on, on some incredible work. I know she loves working with you and, uh, yeah, the, the results just speak for themselves and again, I know she’s very much into the analytics side of things. So as much as we need our hard numbers, it’s nice to know that it can be done in.

That’s actually meaningful. So as human beings, we can sit back and go, yeah, I can see and understand and feel how that works. So yeah, it’s very exciting, uh, work and time for loyalty professionals, I think. Huh?

Jason: Indeed. Indeed.

Take advantage of and be the flag bear for your organization in terms of, uh, where we stand and, and what they can do for, for

Paula: the. Wonderful. Well listen on that note, Jason, is there anything else that you think is a, a burning topic that you wanted to mention for our audience before we wrap up?

Jason: No, I think, um, I think I’ve probably, been super, super fun to thank you and um, really enjoyed the chat.

Paula: No problem. Where can people find you?

Jason: So, uh, they can absolutely find you on LinkedIn and um, and bbdperfectstorm.com of course. Thank you so much for having me on the show.

Paula: No problem. Jason Foo, International Man of Mischief, and CEO of BBD perfect storm.

Thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty.

Jason: Thank you Paula.

This show was sponsored by The Wise Marketer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research. The Wise Marketer also offers loyalty marketing training through its loyalty academy, which has already certified over 500 executives in 38 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

For more information, check out thewisemarketer.com and loyaltyacademy.org.

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