Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.
Paula: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from Loyalty Specialists around the world.
Paula: Thank you.
Paula: So welcome to this week’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: I’m recording this episode, as I always do, in my recording studio in Dubai.
Paula: And I’m actually really happy to be interviewing and speaking to a fantastic lady who has launched one of the region’s latest and greatest loyalty programs.
Paula: So as many of you may know, certainly the UAE, or the United Arab Emirates, is a very advanced and very retail savvy market.
Paula: And particularly the Chalhoub Group that I’m speaking today was one of the last to launch a loyalty program.
Paula: And we’ll get into talking exactly why they waited until quite recently to do that and exactly what they’ve launched.
Paula: So I am speaking today to Nida Unas and really exciting to be talking today about the Muse program.
Paula: Welcome Nida to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Nida: Thank you, Paula.
Nida: It’s a pleasure to be here with you today.
Paula: Great, great.
Paula: And I know it’s a particularly trying time for anyone in retail, Nida.
Paula: So I think just to first of all acknowledge, thank you for your time.
Paula: For listeners, just to explain that the UAE has announced that all shopping malls will be closing in the UAE tomorrow, which is the 24th of March.
Paula: So by the time you guys are listening to this, we will have had a week of real total lockdown in this country.
Paula: So Nida, first and foremost, I know you are a loyalty expert and we’ll get in to talking to you all about the Muse program.
Paula: But before we get into the group of companies or any of that, tell me what is your favorite loyalty statistic?
Nida: So I love to show that loyalty actually works.
Nida: You often hear people saying loyalty is dead and there’s far too many programs.
Nida: But one of my favorite statistics is from the Forrester, which states that 56% of consumers seek programs of brands they like and 60% say loyalty actually influences their purchase behavior.
Nida: So after we went live with Muse, it was actually a proven fact that members were so excited to have the program.
Nida: They were asking if they could earn points historically for all their shopping in the last, you know, how many of the years and really like we’ve started to see this behavior change where people choose to shop within some of our department stores, rather than go out and shop at other standalone brands where they possibly can’t engage with the program.
Nida: Personally as well, like I choose to fly Emirates or when I go to London, I shop in Harrods because of their loyalty program.
Nida: So, you know, it’s something that I always go back to and say loyalty is not dead.
Paula: Absolutely, well, I’m delighted to hear it.
Paula: I think all of us-
Paula: We do have a job, we certainly do.
Paula: And I think, I suppose, again, given that not all of our listeners would know this region, I wanted to maybe give a sense of the scale of the company that you work for.
Paula: So the company name is The Chalhoub Group, and I know that you operate in 14 different countries, a total of over 700 stores, with I believe about 12,000 employees needed.
Paula: So it’s actually a huge operation.
Paula: So would you tell us maybe a bit about what does Chalhoub specialize in in terms of its retail operations?
Nida: Sure.
Nida: So the Chalhoub Group is actually a leading partner of luxury across the Middle East, and it’s been operational since the 50s.
Nida: Really, like we are sort of market leaders when it comes to beauty, fashion, and gift sectors regionally.
Nida: In a couple of years ago, years ago, 800 days ago, the group also set on this sort of transformation of moving from a traditional sort of distributor to a retailer that brings a hybrid experience to its customers everywhere.
Nida: So Muse is actually one of the projects that came out of the whole transformation goals, which really is about putting the customer at the heart of everything that we do.
Nida: Muse as a loyalty program is live for about seven months now in the UAE, and we launched in Kuwait at the end of last year in November as well.
Nida: We currently have over 35 brands across fashion, beauty and lifestyle.
Nida: And it ranges across our own concepts, like Level Shoes, Triano, Gowali, as well as some of the well-known international brands like Swarovski, Molten Brown, Lacoste, L’Occitane, Paul Smith, Michael Kors, Nas, Urban Decay, to name a few.
Nida: And recently we also went live with Faces, which is our own sort of beauty concept department store.
Paula: Wow, and I have to say, I’m a bit of a shoe-aholic as well, Nida.
Paula: Totally, so Level Shoes in Dubai Mall, for anyone who’s listening, is just an extraordinary shoe-shopping experience.
Paula: And it’s all ends of the market, but including the top premium brands.
Paula: So to be able to shop in Level Shoes and get your muse points is really a beautiful experience.
Paula: So a huge amount of work.
Paula: And I remember talking to you about this before, and we were certainly together at the Loyalty Magazine Awards and conference in October in London.
Paula: And I know you had just launched the program then.
Paula: So I’d love to get a sense, first of all, in terms of, what is it that you’re trying to achieve with Muse, particularly, as I mentioned in the opening, you’ve waited quite a long time as a luxury retailer to launch something like this.
Paula: So why did you wait and what have you built?
Nida: So I think, Patrick Chalhoub, who is our CEO of the group, was very clear that he didn’t want to launch a loyalty program, which is just a discount space program.
Nida: So often any program that was presented to him was probably rejected and didn’t meet his requirements in terms of what would appeal to the customer, a luxury customer.
Nida: So we really worked hard on building a proposition, which took this program beyond points and beyond that transactional relationship.
Nida: So the loyalty program, which is out there right now, looks to build a human connection with our customers.
Nida: It’s not really about demanding loyalty from our customers, but it’s actually showing our loyalty back to them.
Nida: And at the forefront of this is our experiences by deproposition.
Nida: It’s through these experiences that we believe that we can make that sort of emotional and human connection with our customers and offer them an amazing experience across the group.
Paula: So when I was doing some research on the background, Nida, I came across just a mention that you guys have spent actually about the last two years developing this program.
Paula: So to me, it shows a real commitment to exactly what it is that you’re committed to in terms of, as you’ve already said, just demonstrating your loyalty back to your customer.
Paula: So I just really wanted to get a sense, were you inspired by other loyalty programs, maybe around the world, or maybe what was the journey like?
Paula: I think when you mentioned to me, you came in at the strategy stage of where there was an intention to launch loyalty, but then there’s been a huge amount of work done over the last couple of years.
Paula: So I’d love to hear all about that journey.
Nida: Sure.
Nida: So, yes, two years seems like a long time, but I kind of stepped into the project maybe five months in, and we really by that point had decided that we’re not going to launch a traditional loyalty program.
Nida: It has to be different.
Nida: So defining that value proposition took a bit of time in terms of what’s the right value proposition by tier, by what’s the right sort of entry level experience to what is that sort of elevated experience.
Nida: The time spent on research as well.
Nida: So we did a bit of consumer research.
Nida: We have an in-house consumer research team as well.
Nida: So we reached out to our shoppers to find out what were they seeking out, how would an experience program sit with them.
Nida: So we got really good and positive validation with everything we did.
Nida: And really then after that, the time frame of launching the loyalty program was exactly one year.
Nida: And that meant everything from scratch of setting up a team, choosing your technology, to actually going live with having trained.
Nida: Yeah, a whole team, yeah.
Nida: Yeah, I mean, we trained over a hundred frontliners, and then those frontliners went on to train another hundreds and thousands.
Nida: So it was a massive step in the whole process, but it was really fulfilling as a journey.
Paula: I can imagine, and you must be super proud.
Paula: And I really wanted to get a sense as well, Nida, because certainly within luxury retail, there’s often resistance to loyalty programs.
Paula: Sometimes they can be seen as discounting, or there is a huge education process to bring, I suppose, your partners along the journey.
Paula: So how did you find dealing with all of these beautiful luxury brands that you deal with?
Nida: Firstly, Paula, it was actually quite interesting.
Nida: So when I joined, it wasn’t that, just because you’re part of The Chalhoub Group, you are mandated to join this program and things like that.
Nida: We had to actually convince all the brands to join the program.
Nida: Some of it required us to actually pitch to their teams in Europe and to actually join the program and convince them to consider being part of a bigger network based on the research we had, rather than bringing a standalone program that some of our brands have internationally.
Nida: So that process was backed up with a lot of facts.
Nida: So the research proved that consumers actually wanted choice and they wanted a choice in terms of brands, as well as choice in terms of rewards.
Nida: And experiences as well was a huge selling point because that was really how we set ourselves apart from every other program out there.
Nida: We convinced to the brands of the power of the data, the power of the experiences value proposition to make our customers feel valued, rather than just giving them discounts, which is just about creating that value.
Nida: Yes, at that bottom chain, that is what hooks people on, but as you want to elevate them up the tiers, how do you make sure that you consistently make them feel valued to keep being loyal across your entire network.
Paula: Yeah, fantastic.
Paula: And I’d love to get a sense of those experiences, Nida, like what kind of benefits are you giving in order to make it such an experience-led program?
Nida: So, experiences means, it could actually mean nothing, it could mean a lot, right?
Nida: But we take this one really seriously in our ecosystem.
Nida: So for us, experiences are twofolds.
Nida: We’ve got our benefits, which people engage with.
Nida: So our benefits are really designed about on removing sort of the pain points of shopping.
Nida: You know, and we look at this in three parts.
Nida: We look at this as before, and the during, and the after shopping.
Nida: And so before could be like, we offer our Muse members valet parking at some of the major malls.
Nida: During is that we offer anybody home delivery, you know, whatever they buy.
Nida: And that’s actually really worked out well, because you know, you could be shopping in the malls, and you just want to send a gift to your friend.
Nida: So you can actually use home delivery service that we offer.
Nida: We also offer complimentary alterations, which is, you know, a pain point after shopping, and we extended care through our Muse concierge service.
Nida: So our benefits are really designed to elevate that experience.
Nida: But when we look at co-experiences proposition as well, at an entry level, we have all these complimentary brand led moments, such as makeovers, styling sessions, and it’s not just limited to within our network, but also outside of our network.
Nida: But some of our most popular experiences have been the sort of the luxury hand massages that we offer in store.
Nida: And when we move to the sort of second layer, it’s the desirable experiences, as we call it.
Nida: So these are where you can redeem your points for a spa day or high tea at L’Occitane Cafe.
Nida: And as you go up the tier, there are these immersive experiences, which on phase one, we’ve enabled it through contests, but we’re looking at different means through our app to make it more engaging.
Nida: So these immersive experiences are a trip to Shorasti, Crystal World in Wattens, Austria.
Nida: A couple of members won that last year.
Nida: In Kuwait, we recently announced that some members could fly to New York and experience a Dylan’s Candy Bar.
Nida: And for Mother’s Day last week, just in light with everything that’s happening, it was just win a wardrobe for the mom and child and we’d bring products to you.
Paula: Beautiful.
Nida: So essentially, it’s just elevated experiences across every tier.
Nida: And as it goes high up, the dream is really enabling these front row passes to major fashion shows and meet and greet with your designers.
Nida: And that’s kind of the kind of elevated experiences that we’re working towards.
Paula: Wow, yes.
Paula: I think when I’ve worked on some programs with this level of focus on beautiful experiences, we used to just call them money can’t buy experiences.
Paula: So that’s what I’m hearing exactly.
Paula: Money can’t buy.
Paula: Certainly those from Proceeds.
Paula: Yeah.
Nida: Last year, actually, we did one of our successful experiences was we partnered with Soul DXP.
Paula: It’s a big shoe festival, yes?
Nida: It’s a big shoe festival, if you recall it.
Paula: Design festival, should I say?
Nida: Well, it is, I mean, it is, you know, for all the sneaker heads, it’s the place to be every once a year.
Nida: And, you know, all the major brands are out there displaying the sort of creative work.
Nida: But we partnered in a really fun way.
Nida: We basically, you know, for the three days of the festival, anyone who had the Muse app and had to go onto the app and engage with us, and if they did engage with us, they’d get to the front row passes to all the concerts that happened there.
Nida: So we have people like jumping the fence as well and saying, I’ve downloaded the Muse app, can I get in?
Nida: So it was a great sort of member engagement, and we managed to give away like sort of 300 passes to something like that.
Paula: Amazing, amazing.
Paula: And I’d love to actually even understand the name Muse.
Paula: Where did you come up with that from, and what exactly does it mean, just for listeners who might know the word?
Nida: Sure, so the word Muse, I mean, as we know, it’s a source of inspiration.
Nida: It’s an artist or creative source of inspiration.
Nida: So for us, our members are our source of inspiration, but equally, we strive to inspire our members through our brands.
Nida: Some of the conversations we’ve had with some of our brands is just amazing in terms of how can we elevate their co-value proposition to an experiential proposition.
Nida: Like with Lacoste, we’re offering tennis lessons, which just fits really well with the brand.
Nida: So it’s just that it’s a two-way inspiration, and it goes back to our message on loyalty as well.
Nida: For us, loyalty can’t be demanded.
Nida: It’s a two-way street.
Nida: So it’s about us showing our loyalty back to our members, and therefore Muse sort of perfectly fits in with how we want to operate as a brand with a very strong sense of purpose.
Paula: Beautiful, beautiful.
Paula: And can you share with us, Nida, how many members you have in the program at this stage?
Nida: So seven months in, we’ve actually really like sort of smashed our targets in terms of what we wanted to achieve.
Nida: So as a very new program, some of the metrics we measure is different from some of the long-standing programs.
Nida: So really it was about acquisition in the first few months.
Nida: So we’ve crossed our 200,000 member mark.
Paula: Oh, congratulations, amazing.
Nida: Yeah, and we’re seeing a very healthy engagement as well within the program.
Paula: Okay, my goodness.
Paula: And I know one of the big things, given the current retail challenges, e-commerce has always been a key pillar.
Paula: I know of what The Chalhoub Group has been working on in your digital transformation that you mentioned.
Paula: So you’ve been developing and I suppose fast tracking solutions for, I suppose, Muse members just in the last week or so.
Paula: So I’d love if you would tell us exactly what are you working on in this particular environment?
Nida: Yeah, I mean, I think firstly, I just want to say that it’s a scary time we’re living in and safety of everybody, including our members, is the most important message we want to give out.
Nida: So the very first thing that we did was actually sort of suspend all these personal care experiences that were featured on the Muse app.
Nida: And we just did not want to risk anyone, including our members, including our employees or other communities that sort of surround us.
Nida: So the second step is really with the help and support of our brands.
Nida: As I mentioned before, we do offer complimentary home delivery today, but how do we switch that conversation to, if they didn’t need anything from us, like replenishment services of creams that have run out or gift selections or items that we love, we’re more than happy to bring it to our members’ homes.
Nida: All they need to do is get in touch with us through our Muse Concierge.
Nida: And so that’s a switch in delivery.
Nida: And there’s a lot of innovation as well that is happening at the moment.
Nida: Like e-commerce, e-commerce sales have seen a major boost over the last month, but equally there are great innovative ideas that are coming out.
Nida: And we’re moving very, very fast on some of the projects that we’ve been working on lately.
Nida: So, in a couple of weeks, you’ll see new ways to engage with us, with catalogs, digital catalogs, and new payment methods as well, which is a fiction list.
Nida: And a huge emphasis that is given on our e-commerce brands.
Nida: You said today we don’t have a group platform, but we’ve got our mono brands on e-commerce platforms, like Lacoste, Swarovski, L’Occitane.
Nida: They all have their e-commerce platform.
Nida: So as a brand, we’re pushing our customers onto the e-commerce.
Nida: But we’re also being very sensitive to not hard sell during this time.
Nida: The message is really clear that we have to be sensitive to what’s happening.
Nida: And therefore it’s important that we just make our members aware that these channels exist if they want to shop with us.
Paula: Yeah, and it’s a lovely approach as well.
Paula: Again, I can hear the company culture coming through and what you’re saying, Nida.
Paula: So just to be sensitive about it because there is no right and wrong because I know certainly if I run out of my precious skincare cream, nothing would bring me more joy than to know that it could be delivered to me.
Paula: But having said that, there are some people who probably just don’t want to engage at the moment.
Paula: So again, I suppose you’re gathering the data, you’re learning what people want and what they don’t want.
Paula: So I think it’s a lovely mindset just to say, let’s be sensitive.
Nida: Yeah, absolutely.
Nida: I mean, there’s just enough messages out there and we just don’t want to add to any pain point that the customers may feel at this point.
Nida: So as you said, it’s just making them know that we exist as a channel and should they want to interact with us, we’re there.
Nida: But another thing we’re focusing on as well as social media and building a strong sort of engagement with our members and build a more human connection.
Nida: Like I’ve seen some amazing content and some amazing initiatives come up on Instagram the last few weeks.
Nida: I think, really like creatively, people have stepped up their game so much.
Nida: I think coronavirus means isolation and isolation means social media.
Nida: So even some of the statistics that I’ve seen recently that there’s been a jump from the end of last year, at the end of last quarter in 2019 to 2020, there’s been a rise of 22% on Instagram campaign impressions and a 27% rise in TikTok.
Nida: So there are new channels that people are on.
Nida: So as a brand, how do we also endorse these channels and send the right message?
Nida: And people wanna learn during this time, people wanna pick up new hobbies.
Nida: So we’ve had to really rethink about what does an experience look like in isolation?
Nida: And what sort of experiences should we offer to our members during this time?
Paula: And again, it is bringing out in some ways, with all of the tragedy and worry and concern, it is bringing out another side.
Paula: And I think one thing that we’ve all acknowledged amongst our friends and family is that life will never be the same, even when the crisis pass, I just don’t think we’ll ever take for granted going to a Chalhoub store or a mall.
Paula: I think we’ll just have a new sense of appreciation.
Paula: I even had it coming out today.
Paula: So yeah, it’s all about social media.
Paula: You’re right.
Paula: Yeah, social media and staying home.
Paula: I’m thinking of learning to cook.
Paula: That’s my own personal plans.
Nida: Hopefully, Muse will have a masterclass session on Instagram soon to show you how to cook.
Nida: They’ll make a favorite meal of yours.
Paula: That’s amazing.
Paula: And I loved as well, actually, Nida, you did mention in some of the background stuff that there is a focus as well, and it mightn’t be happening just yet.
Paula: Again, it’s still a very young program, but the whole idea about creating community, and I’m assuming you have a female bias in your membership.
Paula: I could be completely wrong, but I’m assuming there is.
Paula: So there was a lot of talk about collaboration and allowing access maybe to, you know, just to have round tables or mentoring.
Paula: So you obviously have big plans for the future as well.
Nida: For sure.
Nida: Like I think, you know, it’s really about harnessing the data that we’re collecting today and trying to make it more meaningful to sort of engage with our members and get more personal.
Nida: Like often we look at data as a spreadsheet and as records and rows and, you know, anonymized numbers, but they’re people with emotions and they’re people who want to engage with you in a more meaningful manner.
Nida: So we’re not afraid to be bold and we wanna experiment and see what works.
Nida: We recently, a couple of months ago, we had a talk by a female entrepreneur at Max Mara and we attracted a lot of good people who wanted to listen to that sort of content.
Nida: And then, with the Dubai Tennis Open as well, we did a few tennis lessons.
Nida: So it’s really about creating that sense of community and looking at sort of learning-based experiences.
Nida: If you wanna get that perfect sort of dinner table setting, ideas on how to do that, Tanagra can support you, be coached by a female leader.
Nida: If you want a style in consultations, we can support you on that.
Nida: And pick up topics like sustainability as well.
Nida: How can we make a difference to this world that we live in and do some good?
Nida: So the program really is about acknowledging the sort of values that you have as a person, as a human, and how can we speak to you and acknowledge your human values and cater to that courtesy news.
Paula: Yeah, and it’s almost around helping your members achieve their potential, I think, is what I’m hearing.
Nida: Absolutely.
Nida: So to you, that might be important.
Nida: Or to me, it might be that I want to feel good.
Nida: Or to someone else, it might be that I want to be the best version of myself.
Nida: It is about looking at these sort of human values and trends and how can we act on those.
Paula: Yeah, and one now, I don’t know if you’ve come across this very technical terminology, Nida, but forgive me.
Paula: I was discussing it with another colleague yesterday from a previous, I suppose, economically difficult time, maybe back in, certainly for me, in Ireland in 2008, when the world went into a recession.
Paula: And there was a lot of talk at the time about the lipstick effect, which essentially means that I might be able to buy the new Louis Vuitton suitcase that I really want, but I might be able to go and just get a beautiful lipstick from Sephora.
Paula: Would you have a sense of that coming through in terms of having such a huge luxury portfolio?
Nida: Interesting.
Nida: I mean, I think we definitely have seen a good sort of cross-brand engagement across all of our brands.
Nida: So some of these synergies that we never thought existed actually does exist.
Nida: You know, you wouldn’t put two and two together and think that this sort of, you know, Tanagra, which is a beautiful sort of homeware brand of ours and their shopper actually goes to Fila, for example, which is a completely different dynamic.
Nida: So they’re amazing sort of synergies that we see.
Nida: And, you know, sometimes you assume that your customer looks like this, but when you see this sort of pattern come in, you think actually, you know, was I right to assume that?
Nida: So one of the trends that we see, I mean, you know, the conversations within the group as well now is data driven, and we’re able to sort of, you know, test our hypothesis and test all these hunches that we had before having the program.
Paula: Fantastic, fantastic.
Paula: So just the last couple of questions, Nida, as we said, you’re probably a total of maybe two years now into your journey.
Paula: And I know it must be a complete career high, even you already had an amazing loyalty background, but to be given the opportunity to create an extraordinary brand for a leading luxury retailer.
Paula: Do you have any advice that you would give to listeners who might be, you know, at that stage that you were at a couple of years ago, where there’s an intention to launch a loyalty program, and obviously everybody’s very ambitious and excited.
Paula: So what advice would you give to people who are just at the early stages of launching?
Nida: So I’ve been launching loyalty programs for the last five years, yeah.
Nida: So I have decided now that I’m not going to launch anything for some time now, because the biggest advice I can give you is that it is extremely time consuming.
Nida: It takes away everything, but because it’s such an exciting time, and you have to put your heart and soul into it, because a launch demands a lot out of you.
Nida: But in terms of the most important lessons that I’ve learned having launched the Cuba email loyalty program four years ago, and most recently, Muse, it’s to have a really strong and clear vision as a brand of what you want to be and what you want to achieve, and to be a brand with a clear sense of values and purpose.
Nida: This is the most important thing, because what can happen as you go along is that you come across giving too many different sort of mixed signals and mixed messages and very confused as a value proposition, and then you end up confusing the customers as well.
Nida: So a clear vision, a clear value proposition that is easily understood, that is super simplified.
Nida: I think some people do have get obsessed with the outliers and they think of the odd scenarios and the worst case scenarios.
Nida: Like take that MVP approach, which is that sort of minimal viable proposition, and you could continuously sort of enhance it.
Nida: Actually as a team renamed MVP to like MBE as well, which is what is the minimal viable experience that we want to take out to the market, which gets our customers engaged, and then we can incrementally add more features to it.
Nida: And sometimes, what you think was great was, well, we quickly prove wrong, because as you see that the engagement or uptake hasn’t been there, you can refine and improve.
Nida: So a culture of testing and learning is super important.
Nida: I can’t stress on the fact that you need to test, test, test enough before you launch.
Nida: Don’t take something that is buggy and broken to market because it only takes that first impression to sort of ruin the journey after that.
Nida: And as a team as well, to make sure that your entire team backs up this philosophy, but is also equally invested because as I said, a launch is extremely stressful and it takes away a lot from you.
Nida: So you need to make sure that your team are sort of accountable, they’re empowered to make decisions, but at the same time, their fears, they’re bold and they’re not afraid to be creative.
Nida: And lastly, I think the most important lesson is also the fact that senior leadership support is super important.
Nida: You can’t do this alone.
Nida: You need some strong leaders in your company backing you up, understanding your journey, because it is a group-wide project.
Nida: So loyalty requires every division to come together, from HR to legal to IT to admin and name it.
Nida: Everyone needs to come together.
Nida: So it requires a lot of navigation and constant communication as well.
Nida: So it’s super important that your senior leadership is supporting your initiative.
Paula: Yeah, yeah.
Paula: No one can hear that.
Paula: And again, I really like the fact that you guys did take so much time and that your CEO, as you mentioned, had such a clear vision of wanting something different.
Paula: And even actually, before we came on Air Nida, we talked about different countries in this region.
Paula: So again, for listeners, we know that the UAE, where we live, does have a huge amount of beautiful stores, beautiful loyalty programs, and they’ve been around for a long time.
Paula: But other markets like Saudi Arabia, you were saying you’re having an extraordinarily amazing experience with really positive energy.
Paula: A lot of very empowered women now out driving, maybe, for the first time in their life.
Paula: And again, you have a loyalty program that you can bring to them, which must be super exciting.
Nida: Absolutely.
Nida: I think Saudi Arabia is an absolute fresh turf for us to play on.
Nida: It’s new, people are out, there’s all these seasons that are there.
Nida: Generally, the vibe in Saudi Arabia is amazing.
Nida: There’s just so much creativity out there.
Nida: There’s so many new concepts that are coming out.
Nida: We’re actually really excited to launch something in Saudi that speaks to the customer of Saudi.
Nida: And I think we had a market visit two months ago when we went to Saudi, and I came back saying it’s actually a country.
Nida: It’s not like Dubai.
Nida: We’re not launching it in one city.
Nida: It is a country.
Nida: So you have to think of an experience that is going to fit somebody in Jeddah versus Riyadh, and the mindsets are different, and the consumers are different, and the habits are different.
Nida: So the challenge is a lot more exciting, and we just need to make sure that we just don’t take, and we’re very clear about that.
Nida: We’re not just going to take what we rolled out in UAE to Saudi.
Nida: It needs to speak to the members, the customers of Saudi Arabia, and it needs to appeal to them.
Paula: Yes.
Paula: And I remember doing some of my own research as well, which just again supports everything that you were saying.
Paula: So from memory, I think they said 50% of the population is under the age of 25.
Paula: So it’s an incredibly youthful and energetic country.
Paula: And like you said, we can’t take for granted that what works in Riyadh works in Jeddah, and these cities will not be familiar to listeners.
Paula: But I know again, up to a couple of months ago, very much Saudi Arabia was way up the top of my list of places to go on holidays because of the incredible places that they are unveiling for the first time.
Paula: So clearly, that’s on hold for a while, but I share your enthusiasm.
Paula: It’s a country with so much potential and definitely wish you every success in that country as well.
Nida: Perfect, thank you.
Paula: And then I suppose just the last couple of things, is there anything that you wish you hadn’t done or if you were to advise somebody just kind of like to stay away from any particular area of loyalty, what would be your advice around that idea?
Nida: Hmm, I need to think about this one.
Paula: And it may be as simple as communications or staff training, like for me, like you can never do enough staff training.
Paula: So that’s something that there’s always a huge amount of a challenge.
Paula: Like, did that work easily, for example, with Chalhoub or how did it go?
Nida: So yeah, I mean, we took a really good philosophy of training, which was basically, you know, we had to train people across 100-plus stores, yeah, and there are different messages and each person is immersed in their own brand.
Nida: So, you know, how do you get them to start selling experiences and selling a program, which is beyond just sort of points.
Nida: So we had, we selected like news champions across our brands and they are now sort of the voice of news as well.
Nida: So they tell us what’s happening on the ground, but equally, there are champions to take the message to every frontliner.
Nida: So, making sure that you have a strong sort of retail connection because that is where your consumers are going to be interacting.
Nida: And it’s important that they have a great custom experience at that point.
Nida: So for sure, like I would say that that is a space that shouldn’t be ignored.
Nida: But I think generally, I think as advisors, we as people have become very obsessed with sort of short-termism and quick results.
Nida: And it’s just the nature of doing business that way that everything was due yesterday and we need to move fast.
Nida: But it’s important to understand that loyalty is a journey that people need to go through.
Nida: We need to understand that parts to purchase.
Nida: And our job is really about nudging people along that journey to uncover new brands or products and cross-sell and up-sell and push them online.
Nida: So if you do buy a perfume once every six months, like yes, I can influence you, but if you’ve not run out of that product, it is going to be hard for me to get you to buy again.
Nida: So it’s taking time to understand these different behaviors and the purchase intents as well.
Nida: Like have I come in to buy a gift?
Nida: Have I, you know, once someone is in that shopping mall, like how can I get the best out of them when they’re there and get the best engagement?
Nida: Because getting people to the mall is a challenge.
Nida: So how do we sort of mitigate that when they’re there?
Nida: So looking at it truly from a customer standpoint is super important because we as business live and breathe it, but it’s important to actually put your customer hat on and keep thinking about everything that you’re rolling out.
Paula: Yeah, love that.
Paula: And even the corporate video, actually, I was on your own homepage there as well, Nida, The Chalhoub Group homepage.
Paula: And that whole idea of learning and wisdom over time.
Paula: And I certainly hadn’t realized that you guys have been in business since the 1950s.
Paula: So there is a huge wealth of customer listening and loving your customers that comes through and all of that.
Paula: So it’s emerged, I know, in the Muse program.
Paula: I know you’ve also been shortlisted for the Loyalty Magazine Best New Program Award.
Paula: So I guess you’re really excited to wait and see now when the results come out for that.
Nida: Yay, yeah, me too.
Nida: I’m so excited.
Nida: You know, this is my baby and I hope we win.
Paula: So that’s all I can say.
Paula: Of course, of course.
Nida: But more than anything, I do think that, you know, we’ve like, and I think this again, drills down as a culture within the organization.
Nida: You know, it is a family business.
Nida: And Patrick Chalhoub is a remarkable CEO.
Nida: So he’s really given us the liberty to be bold and to be empowered and to create something different.
Nida: So, but his request constantly was, do not forget the customer, do not forget to engage with the customer.
Nida: Like engage with them in a meaningful manner.
Nida: Don’t just, you know, blanket, send everything to everybody.
Nida: So he understands it really well.
Nida: So, you know, when you’ve got someone who is, who cares about their customers and their people so much, that has to translate through a program like ours.
Paula: Well done you, my goodness, Nida.
Paula: Well, I can hear you’ve got all of the ingredients for success.
Paula: So I literally again want to thank you at this very difficult and very busy time.
Paula: I know you’re doing extraordinary work as head of group loyalty at Chalhoub Group.
Paula: So I just want to say thanks a million from Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Nida: Thank you.
Nida: It was a pleasure to talk to you, and stay safe.
Paula: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com, and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday.
Paula: Or just head to your favorite podcast platform, find Let’s Talk Loyalty and subscribe.
Paula: Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews, and thanks again for supporting the show.
Nida: Thank you.
Publisher’s Note:
This transcript was generated with the help of AI and podcast publishing tools such as Apple Podcast’s transcription service.
In the interests of efficiency and minimising our costs as a small business, it has not been checked by a human.
If you have any comments or concerns about the accuracy of this content, please do contact us for changes or corrections.
