Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.
Paula: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from Loyalty Specialists around the world.
Paula: Thank you.
Paula: So welcome to episode 47 of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: And today, I am delighted to be interviewing a lady by the name of Shirley King.
Paula: And actually, it’s quite a fun story in terms of how Shirley and I got to be here today.
Paula: As you probably expect, or you probably even know, I often reach out to people about my podcast if I think it’s gonna be super interesting and relevant for them in their own career.
Paula: And Shirley is one of those people that I sent my podcast to.
Paula: And she sent me a delightful reply.
Paula: And then I looked in more detail at her profile and I just thought it was superb.
Paula: So Shirley King describes herself as a brand love and loyalty creator through thoughtful, data-driven, ridiculously personalized customer experiences.
Paula: And when I looked, I realized she also works in the hotel industry.
Paula: Now after 11 months of Let’s Talk Loyalty, I have had nobody on us yet from the hotel industry.
Paula: So Shirley is going to be my first.
Paula: So without further ado, I’d like to welcome Shirley King to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Shirley: Paula, thank you so much for that wonderful opening.
Shirley: And I appreciate this opportunity to be on your show.
Shirley: And I’m really excited to talk about loyalty today.
Paula: Excellent, excellent.
Paula: Well, listen, I know you did listen to a few episodes Shirley.
Paula: So it’s always very gratifying, as you can imagine.
Paula: Sometimes I feel like I’m sitting in my vacuum, sending my podcast out.
Paula: So to know that you were listening was really lovely from my side.
Paula: And I nearly thought I should probably hire you as a copywriter with that headline on your profile as well.
Paula: So well done with that.
Paula: But listen, as you know, Shirley, I always start the show asking about loyalty statistics.
Paula: So I didn’t even ask you in advance what type of statistic you’d like to talk about.
Paula: But tell me all about your favorite loyalty statistic.
Shirley: Sure, Paula.
Shirley: Well, I have two because it really is hard just to pick one.
Shirley: And the first one is a fairly solid metric and the other one is a little bit fuzzy.
Shirley: So kind of fun to have one of each.
Shirley: But the first is loyalty rev par.
Shirley: And rev par is revenue per available hotel room.
Shirley: It’s the hotel industry standard KPI.
Shirley: And that one is important.
Shirley: It helps hoteliers measure the overall success of their hotel.
Shirley: And it’s calculated by taking total room revenue and dividing that by total available rooms.
Shirley: And this particular metric can be looked at through the loyalty lens if you just swap out considering total rooms by total loyalty rooms and revenue instead.
Shirley: The reason I like this one is that it has loyalty managers speaking the same language as revenue managers.
Paula: Oh, yes.
Paula: Cool.
Paula: I love it.
Shirley: Right.
Shirley: And that ties back and it aligns with some of the things that your other speakers have spoke about on the program where it’s really important to align with senior leadership around the value of loyalty to the business.
Shirley: So I thought that that would be an interesting one to include.
Shirley: Loyalty contribution is the key metric that all hotels look at, but I thought that this was really interesting to me and it was specific to hospitality.
Paula: Super.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: And because I’ve done a bit of work in hospitality now on the airline side, as I think, there is a whole language actually that I think the hospitality industry, almost you’d nearly need to go to school, I think, just to learn the jargon.
Paula: So I know you’ve been in actually the industry a very long time, Shirley, and we will talk about that, but RevPAR is clearly very important to you, but you mentioned you had two.
Paula: So what’s the other statistic you like?
Shirley: So the other one is a value score.
Shirley: Where you create a composite score for each member that takes into account both transactional and engagement metrics.
Shirley: And these can be completely customized, based on what is of importance to your brand or your company.
Shirley: And we did this, we created a member value score for one of the programs that I worked to bring to life a few years ago.
Shirley: Under the premise that building true loyalty requires more than just tracking and rewarding transactions.
Shirley: But recognizing and rewarding member engagement kind of provides a unique opportunity to increase loyalty to the brand.
Paula: So what kind of member engagement are you referring to Shirley?
Shirley: Well, you can measure things like, do members choose to dine in the hotel restaurant as opposed to going outside?
Shirley: Are they engaged on the hotel’s social channels?
Shirley: Are they attending exclusive member events?
Shirley: Are they staying at multiple hotels within the brand or within the family of brands?
Shirley: All of these things create advocacy, but they’re not like a tangible metric.
Shirley: But those are all things that there’s a lot of marketing dollars that are thrown against those.
Shirley: And I think it’s important to recognize the investment we make in our members and make sure that we do figure out a way to track, is that making the program or the brand more sticky?
Paula: Sticky is a great word, actually, Shirley, and it’s exactly what I was thinking of.
Paula: And actually, even on last week’s show, we talked about where there’s a big potentially, let’s say a group of companies or a group of brands within a company.
Paula: And my guest Kunal in India used the term variety.
Paula: And I think it’s the same idea that you’re referring to, where if you’re engaging, as you said, in multiple properties or in multiple aspects of the brand, you’re a much stickier customer because you’re just engaged across so many areas that it becomes part of your life and your psyche, I think.
Paula: Lovely idea.
Paula: Wow, okay, so there’s a lot in that.
Paula: So that’s incredibly interesting.
Paula: And I will confess actually as well to you and to listeners that I didn’t know the hotel brand that you work for when we first started talking.
Paula: But having looked at the website and everything now, it’s absolutely gorgeous.
Paula: So Kimpton Hotels and Restaurants, you might tell us a bit about the brand just in summary.
Paula: And I know there’s the parent company as well, IHG.
Paula: So just tell us, I think you’ve been around 25 years in total.
Paula: So tell us a bit about your career background.
Shirley: Sure, I’d be happy to.
Shirley: You know, it’s kind of a fun story how I fell into loyalty.
Shirley: When going to college, I was working at a Kimpton Hotel and I was a hotel concierge for this, this beautiful luxury boutique brand, Kimpton Hotels and Restaurants.
Shirley: And back in the day, I just really fell in love with customer service and I loved being able to delight our guests as they came back time and time again.
Shirley: The brand is a beloved brand and kind of once you stay at a Kimpton, you just sort of keep coming back.
Shirley: So I started keeping return guest preferences written on three by five cards.
Paula: Oh.
Shirley: I mean, this is way, way back.
Paula: Wow, manual system Shirley, I’m super impressed.
Shirley: Uh-huh.
Shirley: And it was great.
Shirley: So when they would come back, I’d reference my cards and I would make sure that their favorite things were waiting for them in their rooms.
Shirley: And it could be anything from their favorite treat or some kind of service or what have you was all ready for them when they checked in.
Shirley: And it made such an impact.
Shirley: I mean, it was such a little thing.
Shirley: But it really created this incredible sense of delight and personalization.
Shirley: So the senior VP of Marketing at the time caught wind of what I was doing.
Shirley: And soon thereafter, I was promoted to the corporate offices and I was tasked to roll out a guest recognition platform across all the hotels at the time.
Paula: Yeah, that’s incredible.
Paula: And I know you’ve done a number of programs within the Kimpton Hotel Group.
Paula: So I’ll be dying to hear about the different value propositions.
Paula: And you talked to me about some that you’ve won awards for as well, Shirley.
Paula: So, so much exciting stuff to talk about.
Paula: But when we spoke as well a few weeks ago, given the current, I suppose, global situation, career-wise, things were a little bit on hold.
Paula: So tell us a bit about how you’ve experienced the pandemic so far.
Shirley: Yes, so, you know, as everyone’s well aware, the travel industry has really been impacted in quite a profound way.
Shirley: And, you know, there just is no escaping it.
Shirley: We’re all touched by it.
Shirley: And I was placed on furlough a couple months ago.
Shirley: And, you know, while it was really difficult to not be part of the team and being part of creating the solutions to get us back on track, I really just looked at it as, you know, hey, this is my way of, you know, doing my part so that this beloved company that I’ve invested so much time and helped grow can get to where it needs to be and move forward.
Paula: Oh, my goodness.
Paula: I think there’s very few people would be as philosophical and forgiving.
Paula: Through no fault of the realm, I think we’re all human beings.
Paula: And there’s inevitably some really difficult challenges, I think, with accepting a situation like that.
Paula: So how long did you go on for and where are you at right now?
Shirley: Well, let’s see.
Shirley: So I’ve been furloughed for a few months.
Shirley: So it was basically in my mind, I was framing it as a summer furlough or a summer vacation.
Shirley: Yeah, exactly.
Shirley: But I’m delighted to say that last week, I was called back.
Shirley: So I will be coming back and I’m absolutely thrilled.
Shirley: I will be on the IHG Luxury Loyalty Team, the global team.
Shirley: So there’s really good things ahead and I can’t wait to dive back in.
Paula: So when do you actually go back into it or is it like, what is the plan Shirley?
Paula: So I know some of your hotels have reopened and there’s all sorts of lovely customized experiences I can see coming through.
Paula: But for you as part of the corporate team, will you work in head office or work from home or how are you going to go about it for the IHG role?
Shirley: That’s a really great question.
Shirley: I think that we’re still working out logistics.
Paula: Sure.
Shirley: And we’ll know more going forward.
Paula: Fair enough.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: And I guess, as you said, sometimes it might be just OK, try a day in the office, try a day at home and see what works for everybody.
Paula: But just to have something as extraordinary as a global luxury loyalty team, I just think it’s super exciting.
Shirley: Thank you, Paula.
Paula: One thing I was really curious about, Shirley, when I was looking back on your career, so I think in total, am I right?
Paula: It’s 25 years in total that you’ve worked for Kimpton Hotels.
Shirley: That sounds about right.
Paula: My goodness, my goodness.
Paula: Well, there you go.
Paula: I always say employee loyalty is a good indicator as a starting point for commitment to your customers.
Paula: But I’d love to know, were you ever tempted to leave Kimpton and go and do something completely different, either in a different sector or a different loyalty program?
Paula: How has your mindset been over that timeframe?
Shirley: Well, the company grew so quickly and it feels like I’ve been working for a startup for those last 25 plus years.
Shirley: It’s continually reinventing and evolving itself, but just staying true to its core.
Shirley: And a number of years ago, the brand was acquired by IHG, and that’s just been quite an experience for me.
Shirley: It’s been a great experience taking a program that I helped build with Kimpton and integrating that into IHG Rewards Club.
Shirley: There’s just been a lot of opportunity, and quite frankly, I’m never bored.
Shirley: And I truly do love the people and the brand and what it stands for.
Paula: And I do know some of the lovely team here in the IHG Group in Dubai.
Paula: So I have to say, I’ve been super impressed by what I’ve seen and heard.
Paula: So definitely I can see.
Paula: And it often comes down to, I think, the people that the brand brings in to run their loyalty program and to run their business.
Paula: I think customers and guests really feel that.
Paula: And even going through all the Kimpton stuff as well, I can see the word beloved coming up and that commitment to, I think authentic service seems to be something that’s coming through a lot.
Paula: So yeah, incredible amount of work.
Paula: And I’d love to ask you actually Shirley, you mentioned in your profile three different loyalty programs that you’ve built.
Paula: So maybe you tell us a bit about the different value propositions and what have you built and learned I guess over these three programs?
Paula: Sure.
Shirley: So the first one was Kimpton Inner Circle.
Shirley: And that program was built over 10 years ago where we finally had a CRM enterprise solution where we could actually see members and where they were traveling throughout our brand.
Shirley: And we launched this program that recognized just the top value members.
Shirley: And it’s kind of not necessarily backwards from a traditional loyalty program where you build a loyalty program and then you have the different tiers.
Shirley: We kind of started with the top tier.
Shirley: That makes sense.
Shirley: What’s really fun is that the Inner Circle program is still alive today and is the top recognition status within IHG Rewards Club for members that stay with the Kimpton brand.
Shirley: So personally for me, it’s been kind of fun to see that legacy grow and it’s still around today.
Paula: Lovely.
Paula: Did you get to create that from scratch?
Paula: You mentioned your five by seven card.
Paula: It’s quite a leap to come to building a beautiful top tier loyalty program.
Paula: Did you get to create it or did you have a team?
Paula: How did that whole process happen?
Shirley: We did.
Shirley: We had a very small team and it really just sort of evolved with Origins being those cards and just recognizing our top customers as they were traveling throughout the Kimpton brand back then.
Shirley: And then I worked with a team to launch Kimpton In Touch, which was pretty much like frequency program, almost like a glorified punch card.
Shirley: If you stayed seven times, you got a free night.
Shirley: It was very simple, and it was actually beautiful in its simplicity.
Shirley: But it did have a layer of experience on top of it, or I should say, maybe not experience, but recognition.
Shirley: So it did have a number of tiers, including the Kimpton Inner Circle tier on top of it.
Paula: Great.
Paula: And does that program still exist?
Shirley: That program evolved into the third program that I worked on with Kimpton and helped bring to life, which is Kimpton Karma Rewards.
Shirley: And that one was an incredible experience to put that together.
Shirley: It was built on a Salesforce platform and it really took a 360 view of the customer.
Shirley: It had multiple integrations and we were really able to get at an experiential program where you had free nights, but then you also had all these soft benefits that were so meaningful and experiential.
Shirley: And we used that value score to kind of power the whole thing.
Paula: Lovely.
Paula: And karma is such a great word as well, Shirley.
Paula: So, you know, you already start to experience it when the branding is really done well.
Paula: So I hope you’re taking the credit or did you come up with the name or did you have a team effort or how did that part come about?
Shirley: I cannot take credit for that.
Shirley: No, there was a fabulous team at the Kimpton Hotel level as well as various partners that helped this come to life.
Paula: Great, great.
Paula: And I love as well just reading through your own kind of description.
Paula: There’s a couple of lovely words in there.
Paula: And again, like I fundamentally believe like, yes, LinkedIn is a business platform, but I’m now experiencing the Kimpton brand through LinkedIn, which I think is quite unusual and people might not always immediately associate it.
Paula: But the consistent brand, I can hear it coming through in all of the descriptions.
Paula: And there’s some lovely things around making your guests feel safe and special.
Paula: And it struck me that these didn’t feel like they were related to COVID.
Paula: It felt like they were part of the brand identity overall.
Paula: So I’d love to get a sense of, is that part of the brand proposition?
Shirley: It is, yes.
Shirley: So our founder Bill Kimpton, years ago when he founded the company in the 80s, he saw customers fragile.
Shirley: You’re away from your home, you really want to feel safe and secure.
Shirley: And at the time, in the 80s, the trend for hotels were these big atrium hotels that were sort of cold and impersonal.
Shirley: So he thought the boutique feel, that European boutique hotel feel would really resonate in the US and he put that together and it’s something that I think is really relevant today.
Paula: Totally, totally.
Paula: Yes.
Paula: And increasingly so, you know, at the end of the day, safety, I think we had taken for granted, particularly if brands like Kimpton obviously have given us that beautiful experience of luxury.
Paula: So I’ve never not felt safe, but now obviously it takes on a whole new meaning.
Paula: So the fact that that’s, I suppose, baked into the brand overall is just going to serve you guys long term.
Paula: And the other piece I loved as well, Shirley, was authenticity that seems to come through, again, in terms of the team and I guess through the loyalty program.
Paula: Is that one of your kind of brand values as well?
Shirley: Yeah, absolutely.
Shirley: You know, heartfelt human connection is really at the core.
Shirley: And again, it’s one of the reasons that I stay.
Shirley: It’s not just a tagline.
Shirley: It’s just how we work and how we interact with each other.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: And I also got a sense of fun, I have to say.
Paula: I know there was mention of for your colleagues on day one, that part of the induction experience includes a hula hoop.
Paula: Clearly, there’s a sense of humor.
Paula: You know, we can take life very seriously sometimes.
Paula: And actually, sometimes you don’t need to, you know.
Shirley: You know, it’s funny you say that because on my desk, which I haven’t seen in a long time since we’re, you know, we’re not going into the office.
Shirley: But I have a bright, shiny trophy that marks my hula hoop championship.
Paula: That is extraordinary.
Shirley: I may need to put that on as one of my, you know, skills on LinkedIn.
Paula: I’m just wondering, is there video footage I can add into the show notes, you know?
Shirley: No comment.
Paula: Fair enough.
Paula: Fair enough.
Paula: Genuinely, and it’s completely off topic, but I saw somebody hula hooping, if that is the correct term.
Paula: I saw a girl who at a hen party, actually, incidentally, here a few months ago, and she uses the hula hoop for fitness.
Paula: And it was absolutely beautiful to watch.
Paula: So I don’t know what level you’re at, Shirley, but I genuinely thought it must be a great way to stay present, quite seriously.
Shirley: Well, it’s a wonderful core workout, for sure.
Paula: Brilliant, brilliant.
Paula: And back to the main topics, the other thing I loved about your profile, I know you won an award.
Paula: I think it was from Coloquay a number of years ago.
Paula: And you told me a bit about the kind of elements of your program that helped to win that award.
Paula: And I thought it was really just a lovely experience for your guests.
Paula: So would you talk us through basically how that award came about?
Shirley: Of course.
Shirley: This is something that’s been present through all three of the loyalty programs that I’ve worked with with Kimpton.
Shirley: And the particular award that we won was for innovation in the reward space.
Shirley: And it recognized our year-end awards where we would look at our top members and we’d put together these incredible packages for them to choose from, like would you like to go on a hot air balloon ride?
Shirley: And we would host them or take you on a tequila tasting in Mexico.
Shirley: And those were so much fun because it allowed us to truly interact with our members.
Shirley: We could host them in a really beautiful way and celebrate their loyalty.
Shirley: The one though that I thought was really fun, one year we decided let’s really make this the ultimate personal gift.
Shirley: Let’s just simply call our members, we will sit around the table with our senior leaders, we’ll put them on speakerphone, and we will thank them from all of us for their loyalty to the company, to the brand, and then we’ll say, what do you want?
Shirley: We don’t want to give you a list of things to pick from.
Shirley: What do you truly want?
Shirley: And we’ll make that happen for you.
Shirley: It was a bit of a logistical nightmare, but it was really rewarding in the end.
Paula: Yes.
Paula: And honestly, Shirley, first of all, the logistics from the internal perspective of getting the available time from senior people, that in itself is an extraordinary achievement.
Paula: And I can imagine there was probably a stunned silence from most guests because it’s such an unexpected, even the verbal piece, like to me, even if you never went as far as saying, and we’re going to give you a gift, just the sheer fact of saying, I’m Shirley King and I work for Kimpton and I want to thank you for loyalty and for a team of people to echo that sentiment.
Paula: I can even feel goosebumps now just thinking about how blown away I would be as a member for that experience.
Paula: And I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anybody else executing like that.
Shirley: Yeah, it was quite rewarding.
Shirley: It’s like that’s the invisible paycheck where you feel so good about what you’ve done.
Paula: Yeah, of course.
Paula: And I guess you also get that verbatim feedback where the whole senior leadership team can kind of hear the themes that are coming through.
Paula: And I’m finding actually, I’ve just been, I suppose, noticing in the last few podcast recordings that the themes of loyalty are probably something that we all need to be paying more attention to, and maybe it’s just me that I haven’t kind of went, okay, we’ve talked about, you know, things like transactional versus emotional, but I’m hearing themes like, you know, community coming through and advocacy.
Paula: And I know they’ve come up in, you know, Net Promoter Score and those kind of things, but I really think you’re picking up on something that, I know it can’t scale, but I think it brings an extraordinary depth of commitment to loyalty members.
Paula: And again, you’ve been laser focused on top tier, so it sounds like something that ideally every company should be executing on.
Shirley: Well, you know, I think it’s really important.
Shirley: It’s always been important to me personally, you know, and the work that I do in the space.
Shirley: And, you know, I had to just, you know, smile and chuckle to myself when I was listening to your latest episode where you had, you know, Kunal Mouloudin speaking about hospitality and, you know, with his background in loyalty and consulting globally, I loved at the very end, he kind of showed up to the hospitality community.
Shirley: And he said, loyalty programs become more critical and more important for the hospitality sector.
Shirley: And then he went on to say how important, like, looking at that top tier customer base is.
Shirley: And he gets it.
Shirley: And I really, I think that is so important right now.
Paula: Yeah, you’re totally right, Shirley.
Paula: And I do think we can sometimes get lost in the scale of our programs and the scale of what we’re trying to achieve.
Paula: But, you know, it is a one-to-one relationship.
Paula: And that’s actually what customers expect, especially when they give you their data.
Paula: So definitely a theme I’m hearing coming through, as you’ve said, is, you know, loyalty is an ever increasing asset.
Paula: It’s being ever more respected at ever more senior levels of our companies.
Paula: So I love the fact, obviously, you’re working for a brand that’s always had that kind of mindset.
Paula: But for anybody listening who maybe works for a company that’s, you know, still fighting to justify budgets or whatever, and maybe not as beautiful as hospitality, because I guess you’re very lucky in many ways to have that, even with all of the challenges that are going on.
Paula: But it’s lovely to hear that everybody’s having that same experience.
Paula: Literally, I think you’re in San Francisco, am I right Shirley, west coast of USA?
Shirley: I am, yes.
Paula: And there’s Canal on the other side of the world in India and again, having exactly the same experience.
Paula: So, yeah, so one for us all to pay attention to, I think.
Shirley: Agreed.
Paula: Cool.
Paula: My final couple of things I noticed just in terms of, I suppose, how services are evolving and it might be a little, I suppose, it’s not necessarily directly for loyalty members, but I loved some of the terminology around knock and drop cocktails I saw as a service in Kimpton Hotels.
Paula: I thought that was lovely and I felt like saying, okay, if I stayed nearby or, you know, how can I get knock and drop cocktails?
Paula: Well, that was brilliant.
Shirley: We could all use knock and drop cocktails right now.
Paula: Honestly, I think there’s a story in there for sure.
Paula: I don’t know what you do with it, but yeah, some clever people.
Paula: So what do you think your, I suppose, focus is going to be or your approach now going back into this incredible world with, you know, experiences that none of us could have foreseen?
Paula: Like, what kind of principles and approach do you think you’re going to have to take?
Paula: Or do you know?
Shirley: Well, you know, as I said, it’s kind of all, you know, it’s evolving so quickly.
Shirley: You know, and I think that, you know, the themes that we’re seeing in the industry, I think we’ve already checked off, you know, a couple of these boxes where, you know, clean is now the new loyalty driver in hospitality now.
Shirley: Yes.
Shirley: All the major brands have their clean programs, like, you know, the IHG Clean Promise and Marriott’s commitment to clean.
Shirley: So, you know, we’ve checked that box, but we have to withhold that and we have to keep that up, you know, to make sure our members do feel safe.
Shirley: You know, and we’ve already gone ahead and we have, you know, extended all the hard and soft program benefits that are set to expire.
Shirley: You know, so we’ve done that.
Shirley: We’ve reduced the thresholds, you know, for status and there’s point multipliers all over the place.
Shirley: So I think what’s left is, you know, really looking at customer experience and looking at this incredible opportunity we have as we’re reopening, as travel is starting again, there’s that first moment of truth where our beloved members are coming back, they’re putting out their trust in our hotels and we have an opportunity to really blow it out of the park, to exceed expectations and not in a grandiose way, but in just a very heartfelt way.
Shirley: How do you show care so that there’s that emotional connection that you can say, okay, this feels good, this feels normal, but I feel safe and I want to do this again?
Paula: Yeah, I think it’s an extraordinary mindset.
Paula: I can see that all of the again, underlying values and principles are there.
Paula: So whatever the solutions look like, they’re coming from a very heartfelt place.
Paula: And, you know, as somebody who really values boutique hotels, actually, and that’s exactly what I would want.
Paula: You know, it’s as you said, it’s not a formula.
Paula: It is something where I think, you know, I need to be, I need somebody to notice that I might be apprehensive.
Paula: The first time I show up, you know.
Shirley: Exactly.
Shirley: Exactly.
Paula: With the best of the world.
Paula: Sorry, go on.
Shirley: Oh, no, that’s okay.
Shirley: I was going to say, you know, the other thing that I’m kind of seeing in the industry is the acceleration of the artificial intelligence, which you might think is, you know, completely in contrast to heartfelt human.
Shirley: But I think there’s an opportunity to get it right and really have a good balance between the two.
Shirley: Because I think that it can deliver an incredible experience and be able to scale and be able to empower.
Shirley: So I was lucky enough to go to Dreamforce in San Francisco last year.
Shirley: Which is so amazing.
Paula: Yes, and just for listeners who mightn’t be familiar with Dreamforce, Shirley, would you just explain what that event is about?
Shirley: Yes, it’s this massive global event held in San Francisco every year.
Shirley: And it’s put on by Salesforce where they do an incredible job.
Shirley: It’s very well attended, and you can go and you can learn, and you can interact with all of their platforms and all the new technology.
Shirley: I love going, I try and go every year.
Shirley: You learn so much and you can dream a little bit of what things could look like in the future.
Shirley: But I was there and I was looking at this Salesforce CX platform where they did a demo for us where you could see this customer profile and how it would be served up to various customer service agents, whether you’re a loyalty program manager or you are answering the phones at a service center.
Shirley: But the AI would assist you in that it would serve up recommendations or predictions of what this member might need based on where they are within the customer lifecycle journey or what rewards are outstanding.
Shirley: What are those three or four things that while you’re interacting with this member, what could make an impact?
Shirley: And that’s something you really couldn’t do before.
Shirley: And I think that there’s some good potential there.
Paula: Yeah, it is all about impact at the end of the day.
Paula: And it sounds incredible.
Paula: I don’t know if it’s operational.
Paula: I mean, I’m guessing it already is, if they’re demoing it for you.
Paula: But yeah, sometimes I think with loyalty programs, there’s missed opportunities.
Paula: They don’t always tell you how close you are to the next tier.
Paula: I have to go looking sometimes for that information.
Paula: So I have often thought, actually, just help me out here.
Paula: Tell me a little bit more about how close I am and inspire me.
Paula: And I think that’s what I think Dreamforce sounds like, the place you go for inspiration, if I’m right.
Shirley: 100%.
Paula: Oh, my goodness.
Paula: I’ll have to try and get that on my to-do list, Shirley.
Paula: I keep saying I love conferences like that.
Paula: Any excuse now?
Paula: And there’s a couple of them.
Paula: Clearly, San Francisco is a hotbed of inspiration and innovation.
Paula: So you’re right in the middle of it and you’re very lucky.
Paula: And I know their guest profile, sorry, their speaker profile.
Paula: And I’m going to see if I can test my memory.
Paula: I’m nearly sure Barack Obama was one of their speakers a number of years ago.
Paula: Do you know if that’s right or wrong?
Shirley: Yes, I stood in line for hours to be able to be in there and listen to him present last year.
Shirley: It was pretty incredible.
Paula: There you go.
Paula: And I think that just gives listeners a sense of the caliber of the event that you got to go to.
Paula: And again, I suppose even to have that level of professional inspiration for yourself to take and translate into your customer experiences is incredible.
Paula: So definitely I’ll be keeping an eye out for the AI.
Paula: I can’t even say it properly, but I know there’s a lot coming up, like two guests in two weeks talking about AI.
Paula: So clearly there’s a lot to explore.
Paula: So the last question I was going to ask Shirley was just, you know, in terms of actual resources, you know, whether there’s, you know, websites or, you know, just particular sources of information or inspiration.
Paula: And maybe Vian said that already with the Dreamforce idea, but is there any other newsletters or anything else that you think are good from a loyalty perspective?
Shirley: Well, of course, there’s their Skift for the travel industry, and you can get news and research and marketing services, and they have a great podcast every day.
Shirley: That’s really short and quick.
Shirley: So you’re just up to speed.
Shirley: I love that.
Shirley: And, you know, of course, I’m subscribed to the travel blogs, like The Points Guy or One Mile at a Time.
Shirley: And there’s also forums like Flyer Talk.
Paula: Okay.
Shirley: So you can really, like, listen to the customer and kind of see what they’re saying about your programs or your brands.
Paula: Wonderful.
Paula: Wonderful.
Paula: Well, again, because I tend to go much more like, you know, just around the themes of loyalty.
Paula: I haven’t gotten into the travel-specific ones, so some really good ones there, and I love the idea of a daily short podcast.
Paula: So watch this space.
Paula: I might pick your brains on that because I think we could all do a daily dose of inspiration.
Shirley: I love it.
Shirley: And it’s so fun to listen and learn.
Shirley: I know that that’s one of your taglines.
Shirley: I think it’s fantastic.
Paula: Totally is, Shirley.
Paula: Thanks a million.
Paula: So listen, that’s it from my side.
Paula: Is there anything else that you wanted to cover while we wrap up the show?
Shirley: You know, it’s been delightful chatting with you.
Shirley: I think we’ve covered quite a few topics.
Shirley: I think there’s enough here, unless you have any other questions.
Paula: Not at all.
Paula: I just want to, I suppose, thank you for taking a leap of faith when I sent you an email out just to say, here’s a podcast, maybe give it a go.
Paula: So I love that you took that opportunity and listened and then agreed to come on the show as a guest.
Paula: So from my side, I think it’s been an utterly delightful experience.
Paula: I feel it’s a really good news story, particularly for your industry colleagues, actually, as you said before we came on air, to have that story about things are starting to come back, jobs are starting to come back.
Paula: So for you to be able to go back into that role, I think is amazing to hear for everybody listening.
Paula: So just wanted to say from my side and from Let’s Talk Loyalty, thank you so much to Shirley King.
Shirley: It was a pleasure, Paula.
Shirley: Thank you.
Paula: This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketeer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research.
Paula: The Wise Marketeer also offers loyalty marketing training both online and in workshops around the world through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 150 executives in 18 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.
Paula: For more information, check out www.thewisemarketeer.com and www.loyaltyacademy.org.
Paula: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday.
Paula: Or just head to your favorite podcast platform.
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Paula: Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews and thanks again for supporting the show.
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