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Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV. Today’s episode is a wonderful discussion about a very young loyalty program in the hotel sector. The Langham Hospitality Group recently launched its Brilliant by Langham loyalty program after a comprehensive two year project led by Susan Nisbet, their VP of Loyalty.
As the wholly owned subsidiary of Great Eagle Holdings, the group encompasses a family of distinctive hotels under various brands. The group takes its name from the legendary Langham in London, which was widely recognized as Europe’s first grand hotel. And the company has a vision to be a global hospitality group that pursues excellence.
In today’s conversation, Susan shares her career specializing loyalty in the hospitality sector. And some of the incredible learnings, creating a program in such a mature and competitive sector, along with the unique challenges to create a compelling concept that works for a range of diverse cultures. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Susan Nisbet from the Langham Hospitality Group.
So, Susan Nisbet, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.
Susan: Thank you. Great to be here.
Paula: Fantastic. I know you’re a long time listener of the show, Susan. So, thank you for joining us as a guest for the first time. Super exciting to hear the journey you’ve been on throughout your whole loyalty career. Particularly I feel hospitality, such a mature sector, and actually we haven’t discussed it nearly enough. So I’m delighted to hear your experience and particularly this incredible program that you’ve just launched recently.
So, as you know, we have a favorite opening question, Susan which is always really good just to get an insight in terms of what you think and what you admire in the world of loyalty programs. So I’m gonna kick it off as usual by asking you, Susan, what is your current favorite loyalty program?
Susan: Yeah, so I think with a lot of your guests the same start to my answer. I really had to think about this and it is quite a hard question. There’s so many good ones out there. At the moment, my favorite is Amazon Prime.
Of course, when it comes to things like product selection, I’m pretty sure they’re unbeatable. But for me, they do a great job in personalization and especially recommending new products. They, of course, they use my data very well. The recommendations are based on my purchase history, also my browsing history. They always seem to know when I’m about to reorder something or when I need to reorder something. I mean, everybody, we all have busy lives. I’ve tried to read as much as I can but they make it so easy to purchase books on the Kindle. Almost too easy but that’s the thing, right? It’s very easy. It’s very convenient. So yeah, right now, big fan of Amazon Prime.
Paula: Well, I totally agree, Susan, because easy, I think is one of those drivers of loyalty, as you’ve said, just by virtue of being able to achieve what you’re there to do. So, definitely a fan of Amazon Prime, everything about it.
And I know we talked about personalization last time that we were having a chat about today and you’re absolutely right. Amazon’s been doing it for like 20 years. The rest of us have been working really hard and don’t seem to be anywhere close. So certainly as a consumer, it’s the one place I see being personalized and something that is absolutely relevant for me. So a brilliant example, and thank you for that.
So let’s get into talking about your current role, Susan, I’d love you to introduce a Langham Hospitality Group, first and foremost. As you know, we do have a global audience all around the world, and I wasn’t familiar with the hotel brand until we met. So would you mind just introducing the group and where you work?
Susan: Yeah. So Langham Hospitality Group, we’re headquartered here in Hong Kong, which is where I’m based. The Langham itself dates back to 1865. So the picture that you can see, my background picture is actually the Langham in London. Langham London is considered Europe’s first grand hotel. So we, Langham will celebrate its 160th anniversary next year June, actually.
At the moment we operate 33 hotels globally. We have four brands, so we have the Langham Hotels, we have Cordis Hotels, we have Ying’N Flo, and we also have the Eaton Workshop. And across our portfolio we have just over 100 restaurants and bars.
One thing I love about the Langham is the history. So I’ve just come back from the US and Canada. It was my first time visiting our hotels there. Loved it. It was a very, very whirlwind visit. But the Langham Boston that used to be a Federal Reserve Bank. It was opened in 1922. You go into the hotel and you just feel the sense of grandeur and history. Very unique. Langham Pasadena opened, 1911. So I love learning about the hotels and the history that the Langham brand has. So yeah that’s an overview of our brands.
Paula: Absolutely love the history side, Susan living somewhere like Dubai, as you can imagine, everything here is less than 50 years old. So to hear that you’re coming up on 160 years next year for the Langham in London, absolutely makes me want to go and visit.
So with that kind of legacy, obviously loyalty is going to be a huge part of the overall business. And I know this journey you’ve been on over the past couple of years has been incredibly exciting. So tell us first of all, why do you think you were chosen for this role? Tell us about your career background in terms of building loyalty programs in the hospitality sector.
Susan: So I fell into loyalty. I think I started working with Starwood Hotels in 2001. I actually started in the call center, which was in Ireland. Soon after working with Starwood I started working with SPG. Absolutely loved it. I loved how engaged people were. I loved how engaged the members were. I loved how engaged our colleagues were. We bled purple. We loved this program.
With that, I learned how important points were and how important status is. But really importantly, I learned about the emotional connection. Having an emotional connection with people is key. And I think for me, that’s where loyalty sits.
We all make our decisions based on emotions, whether we know it or not. So getting into the hearts of people is so important because it helps to drive that share of wallet that we all desire. But it was a really good education for me working with SPG. So I was with Starwood for nearly 18 years.
I was in Ireland. I spent some time in Australia. Bulk of my time was in Dubai. It was great to be there in Dubai. I moved there 2008. I focused on, I worked in the hotels, but I also focused on loyalty operations as well as marketing and partnerships with SPG. I moved to Emaar properties in Dubai after I finished working with Starwood. I worked for Emaar for a year. So that was interesting because that took me out of the hospitality scope because Emaar properties they have their loyalty program, but it does touch their cinema and different retail outlets that they have.
In 2017, I had this amazing opportunity to move to Hong Kong. I had never, I had traveled to Asia, but obviously hadn’t worked here before. So I moved to Hong Kong in 2017 with Shangri-La it was great to understand or to learn more about the loyalty landscape as well as Asia. With Shangri-La, I worked on the rebrand from Golden Circle into Shangri-La Circle.
And then, yeah, then just over two years ago, I joined Langham to launch Loyalty. Interestingly, I was the first person in corporate office to have loyalty in their title. So since then we have built a team and then of course we’ve launched Brilliant by Langham. But yeah, I think it’s been a really exciting journey, but I absolutely love working in loyalty, love making people happy.
Paula: Well, that’s exactly what I think I love about this industry, Susan. So many people like you and I that just want to make people happy in a way that’s supposed commercially viable as well. And I know you’re very passionate about that, making it work for the business, work for the member, and again, working for your hotel partners as well, specifically on property, because obviously it has to work at the point of where the guest is checking in.
So a brilliant opportunity, I guess, for you then, Susan, with that incredible background, to be able to create a brand new program. I know there was a previous program as well, Susan. So can you give us a sense of the context of why it was felt that you needed a new brand, a new proposition, and a new everything for a business? As you’ve said, if the hotel group is very mature, why did you decide literally to start at the very beginning and start over?
Susan: Yeah, it was quite interesting. So actually Langham operated four programs before. They had 1865, which was a rooms recognition program. We had Langham Supper Club, which was an F& B discount program. We had Take the Lead and Ouida, which I suppose served our customers who were booking meetings and events. We decided to reassess the entire approach and give everybody one single program. I think, as I mentioned earlier, we need things to be easy. Nobody needs four programs in their lives. Not our colleagues didn’t need it and our members didn’t need it either.
So, we decided to launch a new program and then we actually wanted to do it a bit differently. So we’re not, we actually positioned ourselves as a loyalty and experience platform rather than just a loyalty program, because we don’t want to just engage transactionally with people. We want to really foster meaningful connections, to have an emotional engagement, an interaction with our members. So that’s the objective of Brilliant is to make sure that we can get to know our members, continue to evolve the program develop our experiences based on what we know about our members.
Paula: And I do love the name, Susan. I think you’d said to us again, the last time we were chatting, the name had been chosen when you joined. Was that right? This Brilliant Loyalty, or Brilliant by Langham, if I’m more correct. Was the name already in existence and then you literally built everything else?
Susan: Correct. So when I joined, the name Brilliant by Langham was the only thing that existed. We had to build the business case, the value proposition. What do we call our points? Do we call them points? The total voice, the branding, the benefits, everything. It was a very exciting journey. I love the name Brilliant because it’s such a positive word, right? It’s very unique, very positive. So yeah we started with Brilliant and then we went from there.
Paula: Amazing. Well, again, I love anything that has that positive vibe as well, Susan. So, a superb name, both internally and externally, I guess, for, as we’ve said, the members and the hotels themselves.
So tell us about the proposition you’ve alluded to it. Did you call them points? Did you call, what did you build in terms of the proposition? I can see it’s very comprehensive. I will certainly say having, of course, looked on your website I love the names of all of the tiers. So just again, for our global audience, who’s never come across this program, just talk us through the basics.
Susan: Sure. So yes, we call them points in the end, and we took inspiration from the word brilliant and brilliant. So we looked, when we look at tier names, we look at the jewels the sparkle from that. So we have our entry level as Onyx going all the way up to Ruby. Members can earn points when they stay with us, when they dine with us when they’re in our spa as well. We also offer a discount on an F& B for all of our members. So one of the things that was really important, and I think particularly here in Asia as well, is getting that instant gratification. What do I get immediately for joining this program? So all of our members get, start with a 5 percent discount in our participating restaurant and bars. So that’s what we launched.
We launched February 29th. So we’re around two and a half, nearly three months old now. And then we will continue to add different partners and also more redemption options as well. As I mentioned, experiences is very important. So as we head into the next few months, we’ll start to launch more experiences for our members. Right now, our key focus is building our member base as well.
Paula: And how is that going? That was definitely my next question. My goodness, just three months old, you must be exhausted. First of all, relieved. I’m sure there’s a whole load of emotions go through you know, launching a program after two years of the project and to get it to market is brilliant. And I know you said you are inundated with the memberships coming in. So that’s a brilliant result. So where is it at this point, at this early stage?
Susan: First of all, I love how many times you’re using brilliant in a conversation. That’s great. But so we’re just over 100, 000 members which for us, we’re on our target. We, it takes time. We could not migrate our existing members. I mentioned that we had four programs previously. We weren’t and we can’t just automatically move people into a program, which has points in different terms and conditions. So we have to go out to our previous members and say, Hey, we’ve got something new for you. Please come and join us. So we’re still going through that and making sure that we can communicate with our previous members. And then, of course, when our guests check into the hotel, that’s our primary focus for enrollment in addition to when our members are making or when our guests are making reservations with us.
Paula: Incredible. So throughout that whole kind of project phase, Susan, I’d love you to talk us through, you know, the highs and lows and maybe the lows more than the highs, to be honest, because I can imagine, you know, so many brilliant experiences in terms of, as we said, getting it to market. But it is always more complex behind the scenes.
And it’s one of the reasons I love talking to people like you, because it really makes me feel like I wasn’t alone when I was building programs. So tell us about some of the challenges that were involved in such a competitive marketplace as well, Susan.
Susan: Yeah, so I mean, you said it there. You’re not alone, right? So we had a project team of 60 people within Langham, probably a bit more actually, but at least 60 people within Langham because a loyalty program is launched by multiple departments, not just by loyalty or not just by sales and marketing. So it was really great to have a really, a huge focus from our company and a lot of support from everybody involved to launch this program.
We, in terms of challenges, we built our program with all those components. We engaged a lot of agencies to help us, especially when it comes to things like our tone of voice and our branding, etc. We also launched a new website. We built a mobile app. We integrated a new loyalty management system. We built a WeChat mini program for China. So all of that alone, plus we integrated with our hotel property management system, so our PMS at front office. Also the point of sale in F&B. There was a lot of tech involved. And as you said, I’m not a tech person at all. I’m a lot more of a tech person than I was two years ago, but I’m still not a tech person. So the integration and the technical side of things biggest opportunity, but definitely the biggest challenge as well.
Paula: So how on earth did you manage that, Susan? Like even like for me, I’ve always said I’ve never even had to write an RFP. I’ve been very lucky, I feel that, you know, there’s always been a platform in place when I’ve gone in to run a program.
But you obviously had to go out and find all of those solutions, bring them all together and again, get it to market. So did you bring in some expertise? I’m just curious because if you don’t have that kind of way of thinking, which I certainly do not, you know, I see myself very much as the person who loves the customer proposition and again, external facing things, but anything backend related and I glaze over and I just don’t feel like I’ve really understood what needs to be understood. How did you deal with that?
Susan: Yeah, that’s why we have an amazing technical team in Langham. So, it really was, it really is a team effort, right? So we in terms of writing the RFPs and I suppose you’d be similar. I know what I want from an end product. I don’t know how to get there. But I know what I want the customer experience to be. I know how I want it seamless for our customers. I want it seamless for our hotels. So we built the RFP across multiple departments internally. We had some consultants helping us as well. So we brought in consultants at the very beginning to help us build our business model and actually understand what we want from this platform.
We did multiple RFPs. So when we looked at our loyalty management system, For our website, for everything I just mentioned, we had a RFP process for each one, a very comprehensive it took us time to go through that because it’s really important that you pick the right partner, right? Because you need a partner who, yes, can technically get everything done. But you also need to work day in and day out with these partners. So we did that in, at the end of 2022. And then really the project really kicked off at the beginning of 2023.
Paula: Incredible. Absolutely. Wow. Well, again, a credit to all of you. I can’t believe 60, although I should know 60 people, you know, to pull together a launch for a brand like yours is absolutely incredible.
Like, it’s mind boggling in so many ways, but again, I know a lot of the audience will absolutely resonate with the fact that every loyalty launch does absolutely impact every single area of the business. So I’m not surprised to hear the number when I think of it like that. And you mentioned China and and a WeChat mini program, Susan, as well.
I have never worked on loyalty or anything. In fact, I’ve never even been to China. So it must have been again, another challenge for you to understand maybe what Chinese guests need. And even that technical piece of, you know, building a mini application, as I understand, WeChat is essentially the super app for the whole nation.
So any, you know, insights you can share from that journey, just for anyone in the audience around the world, who’s either like curious about just what is involved or maybe considering building their own program in the Chinese market.
Susan: Yeah, I think once you’re here in this part of the world, you really have a better understanding of what WeChat is. So maybe to explain, if you think about, so you have your phone in your hand and on your phone, you’ll have your. You’ll have your app for your bank, you’ll have your WhatsApp, you’ll have Facebook, your social media, your every aspect of your life. That’s what WeChat is to the China consumer.
So, in China, there is, I think, the population of China right now is about 1.4 billion. There’s about 1. 24 billion users, active users, of WeChat. Penetration is amazing. It’s mandatory. It’s really mandatory. If a company wants to do anything or be anything in China, you have to have a WeChat mini program. So we had to work with our partners in China. To do that, and I suppose that’s one of the big challenges.
I don’t speak Chinese. However, my entire team does. But we also worked with vendors, other partners. For example, our LMS vendor didn’t speak Chinese. So there, that was a challenge for us to kind of bridge that communication and cultural gap sometimes as well. However, it is, it’s a really unique landscape, China, the loyalty landscape is very different. Everything is done in Chinese as well. Don’t even try to do anything in English because we have to speak. I think one of the key rules in marketing, you always speak to the guests the way that they want to be spoken to and how they want to be spoken to. So that definitely applies in China. But yeah, it was really interesting to learn and to understand how the China consumer works and how different it is from consumers in the rest of the world.
Paula: Absolutely incredible and well done on adapting to something so new and so important as a country the size of China. So that’s absolutely brilliant.
Internally is always its own challenge as well, Susan, in terms of just making sure that everybody’s bought into the loyalty proposition. It can add, of course, a lot of additional complexity. Everyone needs to be brought on the journey. Tell us what it was like for you over the last couple of years, given that you’ve already said there was incredible executive buy in. In terms of driving this loyalty proposition, you know, from the top, how did it work at different levels of the organization for you?
Susan: I think one of the great things about Langham, everybody was really behind Brilliant by Langham. The company culture is, I mean, we’re quite a small company, so everybody knows each other really. Everybody works together. We had this common goal to launch a loyalty program. They had been talking about the loyalty program before I came, obviously, as well.
So, I think to have somebody here, my, I had one job, right, just to launch this loyalty program. Everybody was behind it. We made sure that we were, we communicated a lot with our hotel teams. I wanted to make sure that this was not a corporate initiative, which is delivered down to the hotels. So we really earn and burn program. Many of our colleagues have worked in other companies which have a earn and burn program, but many didn’t. So it was quite a new concept to a lot of people. But again, just the fact that the management team of Langholm were fully supportive made such a huge difference.
Paula: Brilliant. And again, well done, you know, to go and make sure that you visit every single property and to include people in that journey, I think is incredibly powerful.
So when it comes to the guests checking in, I know people will feel. That the actual front of house staff are the ones that believe in the program. It’s a funny thing, you know, as marketing people, like, as you said, you can sit in the corporate head office and design everything that you want, but if it’s not something people really enjoy and believe in at the point of sale, as we often say, then absolutely the member will definitely pick up on that straight away, whether we like to think that or not. So absolutely brilliant to hear, and there I go using your word again, your brand names everywhere.
So listen to me now, Susan, I suppose the key from a business perspective, of course, is the KPIs and you’ve already shared that the program is still very young. So I’m sure those KPIs will change over time, but I’d love to get a sense of what you are thinking about and most focused on at this early stage in your journey.
Susan: Yeah, and I mean, maybe just to pick up on that point, the experience that our guests have in the hotel is the most important thing, especially when you launch a loyalty program, because to your point, the members don’t come into corporate office and speak with us. It’s really, it’s really up to our teams on property to engage with our guests, with our members. And that’s the key thing, right? We need members. So we’re a new program in order for a loyalty program or any membership program to work. You have to have members.
Our number one acquisition for the first year of the program, and it will probably continue onwards, is to encourage guests to join Brilliant by Langham. We have revenue goals as well. We have revenue penetration goals. We have goals to encourage members to download the app. For WeChat, we need members, it’s called Binding, so we need members to link their WeChat to their Brilliant membership. And it’s a very seamless experience for our members in China as well.
But yeah, our key focus right now is acquisitions and making sure that we create brand awareness as well, because Langham is a brand to your point you hadn’t really heard of Langham before, so we’re focused on, you know, creating that buzz and amplifying our brand. But also making sure that we can do the same with Brilliant as well.
Paula: Indeed, they are two separate jobs to be done and again, not to be underestimated. So, yes, you’re right. Building a loyalty brand is a full time job. Building a corporate brand, even if it’s a beautiful hospitality one is still an awful lot of work. So I’m delighted we’re going to be part of that certainly with this with this episode.
And can I just ask you for just your insights again, Susan, from such a wonderful career across so many hotel groups, the particular KPIs I always love for our audience to be able to get a sense of without even asking, of course, specifically about your current program.
But you mentioned revenue penetration, what do you think hotel loyalty program owners around the world listening to this episode, what do you think is a good revenue penetration? Let’s say for a more mature program, again, you’re still in the early days, but what do you think they should be aiming for? What does good look like?
Susan: Yeah, it’s been a hard question, right? Because it does depend on I suppose the hotel company and the brands that they have, but I think we’re looking at least 30 percent in terms of having a good revenue penetration, because we also need to make sure that we are trying to drive incremental loyalty, which is so hard to measure from a loyalty perspective.
We make sure that we have our member or have our guests enrolled into the program. If we make sure that they’re getting their benefits, that they’re getting their, their recognition when they stay with us or when they d with us, then that will encourage them to continue to use the membership as well. Which, you know, should really drive that loyalty or that revenue penetration.
Paula: Yeah. Again, the job is never done, Susan. I think we all think when we launch a loyalty program, you can sit back and heave a sigh of relief, but that’s when the hard work really starts just to make it worthwhile for all. So thank you for sharing that. That’s brilliant to get that insight.
So what are you most looking forward to? I guess, Susan, as we sit here now at the end of May, 2024, and so much that has been achieved as you’ve talked about, what’s next for the Brilliant by Langham Program?
Susan: The world is our oyster at the moment. I think we have just launched. We are so excited to have this new program. And the thing is, we get to evolve our program based on our members needs, right? So when we get to go out and talk to our members, understand their feedback, understand what they love about us, what they hate about us, you know, how we can develop and enhance the program.
I’m really looking forward to getting back in the field and talking to members. That’s one thing that I’ve missed in terms of being in this project mode for the past couple of years. I missed the engagement with the hotel teams on property engagement. So when I went to the US over the past couple of weeks, it’s so energizing to see our hotel teams and to see how excited they are for this program. How proud they are actually of it as well. So I’m excited to continue to work with our hotel teams, but also to really engage and meet with our members. Because if we don’t listen to any program, right, if we don’t listen to what our members are saying, then we’re just listening to ourselves and that’s not the right person to listen to. So I’m really excited to, to get back out, talk to members, develop the program.
And yeah, it’s only been two and a half months that the program has been live. It feels longer. But yeah, we’ve so many exciting things that we can do with Brilliant.
Paula: I think you’ve said it very well, Susan, you’re absolutely right. The world is your oyster. And I’m loving the fact that you are taking the time to go to such diverse markets. Of course, each one is massive in its own right. So, you know, heading over to the US and as you’ve said, also paying attention to all of your main markets, including China and really noticing what the different members want in each of those countries.
So I have a little bit of a professional envy going on here that you’re getting to experience and understand, you know, really nurturing a program from that early stage and building in and noticing, I guess, even other loyalty trends, Susan. I don’t know if that’s something that you have any thoughts on as we come to the end of the conversation, but there are so many big things happening.
I think you mentioned last time we spoke that often in China, for example, premium tiers are paid tiers versus perhaps an entry level free program. So, are there any trends like that you think our audience should be thinking about or that you’re thinking about as you start to grow the program?
Susan: Yeah, I think we’re definitely looking to see how we can ensure Brilliant is right for the audiences that we have in different markets. And China is definitely an opportunity. You’re right. People would like to pay for the higher tiers.
I think one of the things that I am finding is we need to have a better social responsibility. I think from a loyalty program perspective, it’s something I feel that as many loyalty programs haven’t really tapped into, it’s always sat with the parent company or with the brand, but from a loyalty program perspective we need to be very conscious of that. And I think we can do it in many ways and we are not printing cards, for example we’re trying to go fully digital.
So if a member requests a membership card, we actually don’t have any printed. So we want members to use the app. And of course we will help the members if they you know, to make it as easy as possible. But how do we give back? How do we make sure that we are engaged with the local community? I think that’s something the Eaton brand, the Eaton workshop does that very well. And that’s something that we want to learn from a brilliant perspective, making sure that we are aware of how we can really take that accountability, make sure that we’re doing the right thing. And allowing our members to do that as well.
Paula: And I think you said to me that’s mainly a sustainability driven concept. That’s digital digital only approach. I mean, if for sure, I think all of us love the idea. It’s so much simpler. It’s so much more cost effective to have a purely digital program, but it does have that sustainability piece as well. So was that the main driver for that decision?
Susan: Yeah, it was really important that we were sustainable and making sure that we weren’t harming the environment. Of course, it has its cost benefits as well. But not printing thousands of plastic cards to send to our guests. Really make sure that we’re looking after what’s around us, right? Looking after the environment.
Paula: Brilliant. There I go again. My goodness. So listen, Susan, I don’t have any other questions from my side for you today. But want to give you an opportunity if there’s anything else that either, you know, you want to mention or you’re particularly proud of that I haven’t asked you about. Is there anything else that you’d like to say before we wrap up?
Susan: No, I think it’s been really great speaking with you. And thanks for the opportunity to have this chat with you, but no, I think we went through everything.
Paula: Fantastic. Listen, thank you so much for being a member of our community first and foremost. Thank you for sharing this incredible story. I’m sure plenty of people will want to reach out to you on LinkedIn. So is it okay with you if we connect in our show notes for people to reach out if they want to?
Susan: Yes, of course. No problem.
Paula: Amazing. Okay. So, Susan Nisbet, VP of loyalty for Langham Hospitality Group. Thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.
Susan: Thank you, Paula.
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