#163: Accor's Live Limitless Programme Focuses on Passion and Partnerships

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PAULA: Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty, where I’m joined by Isabelle Birem, the Senior Vice President of Loyalty at Accor Hotels.

PAULA: Isabelle joins me today to discuss ALL, the acronym for Accor Live Limitless, a global loyalty and lifestyle program for Accor Hotels and partners worldwide.

PAULA: Isabelle shares the latest news and the latest approach to targeting customer passion points, as well as airline partnerships, where members can double dip to earn both miles and points when they travel.

PAULA: Sheet also talks us through making Accor Live Limitless, a relevant brand in our everyday lives.

PAULA: So, Isabelle, first and foremost, I’m so happy to welcome you to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

ISABELLE: Thank you for giving me this opportunity.

ISABELLE: Loyalty is my passion.

PAULA: Oh, I could tell.

PAULA: It’s wonderful.

PAULA: And I think I confess to you as well, Isabelle, that I’ve done very little with hotels.

PAULA: So it’s certainly about time with all the incredible work that Accor is doing, that we get to showcase all of the incredible innovation and insights.

PAULA: So let’s kick off with our usual first question, Isabelle.

PAULA: Please do tell me, what is your favorite loyalty statistic?

ISABELLE: So my favorite loyalty statistic is summarized in a motto, which is burning drives earning.

ISABELLE: And what we see from our statistics is that when you take members or travelers with the same profile of stays, the same pattern of stays, the same points balance on their account, you have 30% more revisit rates for those who have redeemed.

ISABELLE: And that’s the reason why we always try to engage our members by pushing them to redeem because redeeming drives earning.

PAULA: Wow, that’s incredible, Isabelle.

PAULA: How long have you known that?

PAULA: I mean, I remember from looking at your profile, for example, you’ve, I think, 22 years, you worked with Flying Blue.

PAULA: So lots of incredible experience.

ISABELLE: 22 years in the airline industry.

ISABELLE: Two years with Flying Blue, actually, but I learned a lot.

PAULA: Yeah.

ISABELLE: And as a matter of fact, that motto, I learned it in Flying Blue.

ISABELLE: And then nine years ago, Accor hired me because of this loyalty knowledge.

ISABELLE: In order to handle the program, which had been launched under its actual setup, meaning multi-brand, multi-country program, it hadn’t been launched only in 2008.

ISABELLE: So when I arrived in 2012, it was a very young program.

ISABELLE: And I’ve been taking care of it since then.

ISABELLE: And one of the things we demonstrated quickly after I arrived, because I knew it was one of the key elements to prove the value of the program, is that redeeming drives earning.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: And what I also loved that you taught me, Isabelle, the last time we spoke, is such huge differences between the challenges, I guess, of running an airline loyalty program versus a hotel loyalty program.

ISABELLE: Yes, an airline loyalty program is pretty much centralized because an airline is centralized.

ISABELLE: All the decisions are made at head office and then rolled out.

ISABELLE: In the hotel industry, it’s very different.

ISABELLE: We have owners and each potentially each hotel is its own decision maker because they are independent and they have they manage their own P&L.

ISABELLE: We have a B2B2C model, meaning that the money that builds the profit of Accor comes first from the owners, not so much from the direct consumer, from the end consumer, from the guests.

ISABELLE: So we need absolutely to take this into account.

ISABELLE: And when it comes to managing a loyalty program in a hotel company, you need to permanently demonstrate the value of the program.

ISABELLE: You need to convince the owners to follow you in order to implement what you want to do.

ISABELLE: So it’s very different.

ISABELLE: And it’s pretty challenging and pretty exciting too.

PAULA: And just forgive my naivety, Isabelle.

PAULA: I just don’t know your industry.

PAULA: Do they have any option not to participate?

PAULA: So what are the, I guess, the implications if, you know, your amazing loyalty program, which I know you’ve got the analytics, as you said, you’ve proven that, you know, burning drives earning and all of the behaviors.

PAULA: But what happens if somebody is not convinced as a hotel owner, for example?

ISABELLE: So the loyalty program is mandatory.

ISABELLE: It’s really part of the hotel management agreements.

ISABELLE: And so it’s not an option.

ISABELLE: Now, what happens is when we purchase a new brand, it can take time for all the past owners who have an HMA.

ISABELLE: And maybe it’s a brand which does not have a loyalty program, then it can take time to onboard them all.

ISABELLE: But then for the new hotels opening under that brand, it is definitely mandatory.

PAULA: But yes, I guess the ultimate experience for the customer relies on that hotel owner understanding the power of what you’ve given him and actually, I guess, executing it at the time of check-in when the guest is with you.

ISABELLE: Absolutely.

ISABELLE: We at Centrally, we build the customer promise, but it’s true that those who make the program become alive are the hoteliers because in the customer journey of a guest, of a hotel guest, the stay is of utmost importance and you can really magnify the experience during the stay as well as ruining it if you don’t do what you need.

ISABELLE: So we really train and sensibilize all our staff at hotel about the fact that loyalty is a question of trust.

ISABELLE: This trust has to be built little by little, time after time.

ISABELLE: And when trust is there, it’s fantastic, but it’s also a very fragile link.

ISABELLE: And all the challenge is to develop a team spirit and make them understand that they’re part of a network of 5,000 hotels.

ISABELLE: Meaning that they will recruit for potentially 4,000, 9,900 other hotels, but the others are also recruiting for them and pushing business for them.

ISABELLE: So it’s just a question of collective game.

ISABELLE: Oh, I love it.

PAULA: I love it.

PAULA: And you did send me through some fantastic statistics, Isabelle.

PAULA: 300,000 staff, for example, across the whole Accor Group and 69 million members.

PAULA: And I thought it was very interesting because it is particularly powerful.

PAULA: 43% of those are in Europe, followed by 26% of your members in Asia and 11% in North America.

PAULA: So it’s an incredible brand.

PAULA: It wasn’t one I was that familiar with again in Dubai, where I live, until in fact about three weeks ago.

PAULA: And I think I mentioned to you that I was at the Loyalty and Awards Conference.

PAULA: So we’ll give a shout out to the guys in Global Flight who did an incredible event for Loyalty professionals.

PAULA: We stayed at an Accor hotel, a brand new one called the Soho Hotel Obelisk.

PAULA: And it’s an incredible presentation.

PAULA: So I’d love you to explain, Isabelle, I suppose particularly what has happened with, you know, since 2012, as you said, you’ve been doing a huge amount of work.

PAULA: Sorry, did I get that year right?

PAULA: How long have you been running the program?

ISABELLE: Yes, yes, yes, 2012.

ISABELLE: So the program was born in 2008, which is very late compared to our competitors, because our competitors all launched their programs in the 80s or the 90s.

ISABELLE: So Accor decided to launch it pretty late, but never mind.

ISABELLE: There’s some advantages.

ISABELLE: So it was first called A Club, then it was called Le Club Accor Hotels in 2012, because we wanted to support our distribution platform, which was accorhotels.com.

ISABELLE: And then in 2019, we decided to merge the distribution platform and the loyalty program and call it All Accor Live Limitless.

ISABELLE: And All Accor Live Limitless was born in December 2019 with the intention to go to drive our members and our ambition beyond hospitality, beyond the pure stay at hotel.

ISABELLE: Our chairman has always had this vision of augmented hospitality, meaning we have some businesses which are adjacent to hotels like Conciergerie, One Fine Stay, which is a private rental website.

ISABELLE: With other adjacent businesses, we have a company called Paris Society, which holds a lot of restaurants in Paris.

ISABELLE: And our chairman always wanted to make the hotels become not only a place to stay for people who travel, but also a relevant place for the locals, for the people who live around the hotel.

ISABELLE: And make that the hotels become a place for the locals to gather, because they will go there to dine in our restaurants, because they will go there to experience our spas, or because they will go there because they can’t do home office at home, and maybe they can do a remote office from our hotels.

ISABELLE: So what is giving all the meaning to the augmented hospitality is the loyalty program, because it’s linking all those businesses together.

ISABELLE: And when you add to this the partners that we are currently injecting into the program, we really want all Accor Live Limitless to become a day to day companion.

ISABELLE: We have just launched All Mobility, which is the possibility for our members to book, you know, like Uber, you know.

ISABELLE: I don’t know how you call them.

PAULA: Scooters and bikes.

ISABELLE: Scooters and bikes and taxis and cars.

ISABELLE: And all this through All Accor App or through all.com.

ISABELLE: And obviously you can really earn all points.

ISABELLE: You can redeem all points.

ISABELLE: And this is a way of making our loyalty program become a day to day companion through the injection of new partners.

ISABELLE: And there will be a lot happening in the coming months in that area.

PAULA: Yeah, I can imagine.

PAULA: And I think the first stroke of genuinely genius is what you mentioned literally there, Isabelle, about combining the distribution platform.

PAULA: So the transactional side of the business with the loyalty side.

PAULA: I think so many times over the years, there are legacy systems which are very separate and very complex and just mean you don’t have one single customer view.

PAULA: So the fact that you’ve managed to combine them, I believe they were combined and relaunched essentially in 2020, if I’m correct, as you said literally, probably the most difficult year ever to try and launch something like that.

PAULA: But even to get a three letter domain, the word all.com, I mean, that itself is a stroke of marketing genius, huh?

ISABELLE: Yes, yes, I didn’t take directly part in that part.

ISABELLE: But yes, it was tough because it’s a very common name.

ISABELLE: But you can play a lot around it.

ISABELLE: And obviously, one of our goal also was increase the awareness of a loyalty program.

ISABELLE: And this is what we did with very strong partnerships that we have been developing.

ISABELLE: Obviously, we are the sponsors, Jersey sponsor of the main French soccer team Paris St Germain, which has really increased the level of awareness of all.

ISABELLE: Now, what we do, what we need to do, and this also the insights have shown, what we need to do is link it more to the universe of other hotels and to our brands.

ISABELLE: So people understand that all is something about lifestyle, is something about experience.

ISABELLE: They do not link it yet enough to the hotels.

ISABELLE: And this is what we have been trying to do this year.

ISABELLE: And we will probably be going on doing it next year.

PAULA: Yeah, that’s a very important thing to mention.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: So I’m not a soccer fan.

PAULA: So again, I really hadn’t realized the sheer size of that sponsorship.

PAULA: And to have a shirt sponsor for a football team of that scale is absolutely extraordinary, as you said, for the brand awareness.

PAULA: But I think what you’re doing is you’re tapping into all of the passions that you’re hearing.

ISABELLE: Absolutely.

ISABELLE: Absolutely.

ISABELLE: Because when we launched all or before we launched it, we asked what were the passions of our customers?

ISABELLE: Because as I was saying, redeeming drives earning, but redeeming on hotel was not enough.

ISABELLE: And we really wanted to give the opportunities to stick to our members’ passions.

ISABELLE: So we made this survey and asked them about our passions.

ISABELLE: And what came out was that 51% of them are passionate about gastronomy, dining, 40% are passionate about entertainment, and 38% are passionate about sports.

ISABELLE: And so we decided inside our offer of redemption to build all sorts of experiences around those passions.

ISABELLE: So we are partners of the taste festivals, which happen in different areas of the world and where people can come and experience dining with chefs and all sorts of master classes, all around gastronomy.

ISABELLE: We are partners with a huge provider of entertainment.

ISABELLE: So we have several venues in the world where we have VIP lounges in order to host our guests.

ISABELLE: So we have one in Paris, one in Hamburg, one in Sydney and one in London.

ISABELLE: And then we have the major sponsorship with Paris St Germain in Europe.

ISABELLE: But in other regions of the world, our offices are also partners with major sports events over there, especially in Australia and Asia Pacific.

ISABELLE: They have developed a lot of sponsorships with the Australian Open, the Australian Football League, Australian Rugby League, obviously.

ISABELLE: I don’t know if I’m saying it correctly, by the way, and I apologize to the Australian listeners.

ISABELLE: Maybe I’m not naming those big organizations correctly, but the intention is there.

ISABELLE: And so that’s what we aim at doing.

ISABELLE: And everywhere in the world, in our local offices, our countries, our teams have budgets in order to build experiences that are locally relevant for their members.

ISABELLE: Because you know, a loyalty program is necessarily centrally managed.

ISABELLE: But when you are a worldwide brand as we are, it needs to be locally relevant.

ISABELLE: And that’s why in India, we do propose to our members to attend cricket games, which obviously would never happen in the south of Europe, for instance.

ISABELLE: Or in Brazil, we always propose our members to use their points to attend the Carnaval.

ISABELLE: Carnaval in Salvador, Carnaval in Rio de Janeiro.

ISABELLE: So we really want to make this program locally relevant.

PAULA: And highly aspirational.

PAULA: And again, way beyond the borders of just the hotel, way beyond the stay in the property itself.

PAULA: And I really picked that up actually from seeing the presentation.

PAULA: And also what I loved, and maybe again, I just haven’t paid attention, Isabelle, but the fact that, for example, you can earn the all points by dining in restaurants without needing to stay in the hotel.

PAULA: It’s never occurred to me to go to a hotel restaurant and present that hotel’s loyalty brand card when I wasn’t actually staying there.

PAULA: I think that’s genius.

ISABELLE: Well, I don’t know if it’s genius, but it’s a way of creating repeat business for our hotels, for our restaurants, and also enabling our members to collect more points.

ISABELLE: You know, we have a lot of debates within Accor, especially when we started repositioning ourselves to high-end brands.

ISABELLE: And the first reaction of those high-end brands were, of some of the managers of those high-end brands was, I don’t believe in a points-based program, or our program is all about recognition.

ISABELLE: And that recognition program I’m thinking about was providing free nights and free upgrades.

ISABELLE: And free nights and free upgrades is a transactional, it’s aspirational, but it is as transactional a reward as points that enable you to pay yourself for free nights or free upgrades.

ISABELLE: So this debate about recognition program versus points-based program is totally outdated, in my opinion.

ISABELLE: Points are just an enabler to open up a world of opportunities and a world of experiences or money can buy experiences that you just could not afford if you were not part of the loyalty program, including you could not afford even if you were super rich or super wealthy.

ISABELLE: I’m just going to give you an example.

ISABELLE: The first time we built what we call a limitless experience with Paris St Germain was for a champion league game.

ISABELLE: Paris St Germain was going to play against Real Madrid in Spain.

ISABELLE: And so we proposed this package where the member would on board the Paris St Germain plane with the players, attend the training, attend the game and fly back in the plane with the players.

ISABELLE: And we thought, we said it’s the first test, we’re going to put it, we put it for 80,000 points.

ISABELLE: And the member who purchased it, and this is something that you can’t buy with money because you need to be a partner of Paris St Germain.

ISABELLE: And the member who purchased it was a Canadian based in Vancouver who flew at his expense from Vancouver to Paris to live this experience and then flew back.

ISABELLE: And we were just amazed because it was all we had dreamt of.

ISABELLE: It was bringing the globalness of all alive with the promise of the experience and the promise of a limitless lifestyle program.

PAULA: My goodness, wow.

PAULA: He must be one of your top members, Isabelle.

PAULA: That’s extraordinary.

ISABELLE: Yes, he was very loyal.

ISABELLE: He was a very loyal Fairmont Presidents Club member.

ISABELLE: And we were even more happier because he came from Fairmont Presidents Club.

ISABELLE: And he said, it’s just an amazing program.

ISABELLE: It’s amazing what you are proposing.

ISABELLE: And we have currently an auction going on.

ISABELLE: To repeat this for the 24th of November for a game that will happen in Manchester.

ISABELLE: I think the auction must be over now.

ISABELLE: I don’t know who won it.

ISABELLE: I don’t know how much points were spent.

ISABELLE: But that’s the kind of exciting things that we can do with this kind of loyalty program.

PAULA: For sure.

PAULA: And I think the auction format, Isabelle, is very much one that you at least get the gamification, I guess, for everybody who’s at least bidding, you know, to have the opportunity and to dream and to be inspired about the possibility of winning something like that.

ISABELLE: Although we do not do everything on auction.

ISABELLE: We have one competitor who proposes experiences all based on auctions, but this is not our policy.

ISABELLE: Why?

ISABELLE: Because we want everyone to have the feeling that whatever their points balance, they can access those experiences.

ISABELLE: So we do have experiences that are very affordable because we want everyone to think I too can be part of it.

ISABELLE: Even if I’m not a super big spender, yes, I can be part of it.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And you shared a gorgeous insight with me as well, Isabelle, which I’d love if you share with the audience, which was around the, I suppose, behavior of redeemers.

PAULA: And this was back to your point about possible concerns from hotel owners, particularly perhaps premium hotel owners.

PAULA: And you have, I think, 51 brands across the Accor Hotel Group.

PAULA: I was just looking at your presentation.

PAULA: But the fact that, for example, there are customers very loyal, let’s say, to Ibis.

PAULA: And then there are other members or guests, I guess, who are, you know, much more loyal to, let’s say, a premium brand like Raffles.

PAULA: And I know you mentioned that there was some concern that there might be guests that earn in, let’s say, a budget brand and redeem in a premium brand.

PAULA: So I’d love to share that insight because it really is very interesting what happens with that with your guests.

ISABELLE: Yes, we had made a study before we purchased.

ISABELLE: It happened when we purchased Fremont, F-R-H-I, Fremont Raffles and Swiss Hotel.

ISABELLE: We had already made a study which was showing that members, when they redeem, they remain loyal to their brand of preference.

ISABELLE: And the brand of preference is the brand where they earn the most.

ISABELLE: And where it was particularly true was in the extremes.

ISABELLE: So luxury and economy, because our program ranges from really budget to now ultra luxury.

ISABELLE: And when we purchased F-R-H-I, Fremont Raffles and Swiss Hotel brands, they expressed, so the management expressed concerns about that.

ISABELLE: And the owners expressed concerns about that.

ISABELLE: I remember one asset manager saying, I don’t want to see pizza delivery in my lobby.

ISABELLE: I understand.

ISABELLE: I understood perfectly.

ISABELLE: And what we demonstrated was that people who redeem in luxury have earned in a majority.

ISABELLE: For a majority of them, they earn their points in luxury or premium upscale hotels.

ISABELLE: And it’s only 1% of people who earn exclusively in economy and do redeem in luxury.

ISABELLE: So it’s very few.

ISABELLE: And with all those data, we were able to, I would say, manage those concerns and make them understand that no, it’s not going to happen.

ISABELLE: And it’s understandable.

ISABELLE: I mean, when you are a frequent…

ISABELLE: So first of all, you have people who are really brand lovers of economy brands.

ISABELLE: I know, we all know that one of our hero economy brands is Ibis, and that Ibis loyalists are really very fond of Ibis.

ISABELLE: And an Ibis loyalist will never feel, will not necessarily feel at ease in a hotel where you need to pay 50 euros for your breakfast.

ISABELLE: That’s it.

ISABELLE: And the nice thing of our loyalty program is that you can find a lot.

ISABELLE: You can find all the kinds of brands that you want, and you can redeem wherever you want.

ISABELLE: And you know, there’s also this cliché, which was people who travel in luxury are exclusive to luxury.

ISABELLE: That’s not necessarily true.

ISABELLE: I would say that at some moments they will travel in luxury, but maybe at some moments if it’s, I don’t know, you need to stay one night at an airport, they can as well go to a mid-scale hotel, even an economy hotel, it does happen.

ISABELLE: And we can see that through our insights.

ISABELLE: So yes, there are exclusive luxury members, obviously, but let’s not put people and customers in boxes.

ISABELLE: Let’s just put all our offer on the shelf and let them choose.

ISABELLE: You know what luxury is choice after all.

PAULA: You’re totally right, actually, Isabelle, and you’re reminding me of some of my own work, you know, years ago in different sectors.

PAULA: But I did actually conclude the same thing.

PAULA: The principle of flexibility to let somebody choose exactly what it is they want to do.

PAULA: I think it’s important just as like normal, you know, human beings, a level of respect, because obviously, yes, they’re paying, they’ve earned this.

PAULA: But interesting that they do have the comfort factor around the loyal to the brand that they generally earn with.

PAULA: Because this, I don’t know what I was expecting.

PAULA: I know as a consumer, that is how I behave, you know.

PAULA: It’s like that’s my favorite hotel.

PAULA: If I’m staying there, that’s what I want to stay in.

PAULA: And I also have family and friends who definitely would be loyalists at a, you know, more of a budget brand, for example.

PAULA: They’re much more comfortable there.

PAULA: And I can’t imagine them coming with me when I’m in somewhere, you know, that I’ve been, you know, really looking forward to staying in like a high-end hotel.

PAULA: But great to hear that, I suppose, coming through in your analytics.

ISABELLE: Absolutely.

ISABELLE: And you know, analytics is so key in managing a loyalty program.

PAULA: Yeah.

ISABELLE: Because especially in our case where we need to demonstrate permanently the value to the owners, being able to, I would say, stop any discussion or nourish the discussion with strong analytics, this is really super important.

ISABELLE: I think it’s from a loyalty management perspective, you always need to demonstrate within your own company the value of the loyalty program.

ISABELLE: But really within the hotel industry, beyond your own CFO, you also have to convince the hotel owners.

ISABELLE: So having a very strong analytics base is key in hospitality.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah.

PAULA: And I have heard concerns in other hotel brands where they mustn’t have had the same level of analytics and expertise, Isabelle, that you have and that Accor has.

PAULA: Because this particular conversation, I remember somebody having with me, was around the difficulty, as you referenced, with executing at the time that the guest is in the property, because the hotel owners were not convinced and therefore weren’t delivering on the brand promise.

PAULA: So you’re absolutely right.

PAULA: I mean, we all talk about analytics, but I hadn’t really thought about it in terms of convincing the people who are delivering.

PAULA: I always think about retail style, for example, but I guess the hotel owners, it’s a whole other level of convincing that they really have to be sure in order to make sure that your guest has the right experience.

ISABELLE: Absolutely.

PAULA: Absolutely.

ISABELLE: And getting the staff engaged is also very important.

ISABELLE: Of course, of course.

ISABELLE: But I must say that with the launch of our loyalty, the relaunch of Accor Live Limitless two years ago, we retrained everyone on what is loyalty, not only about the knowledge of the program, but about the loyalty mindset.

ISABELLE: What is loyalty?

ISABELLE: It’s building trust.

ISABELLE: You can enchant the member at the time he stays at your property and make the stay unbelievable.

ISABELLE: When the member redeems, it’s a critical moment where you can even magnify even more the stay because as he’s redeeming, it’s a specific moment, probably where there’s more emotion put in it than one of the regular stays.

ISABELLE: All this we did when we launched.

ISABELLE: Now what we are trying to do, obviously, is finishing delivering the All Promise with the whole set of partnerships that we will be developing.

ISABELLE: We have just launched a co-brand on the French market and a co-brand card, which is nothing new for the travel industry.

ISABELLE: But in hotels outside the US, not so many companies have done so.

ISABELLE: We have just launched this.

ISABELLE: We have plans of expansion in other regions too.

ISABELLE: We have just launched All Mobility.

ISABELLE: We will be introducing an experiential partnership also that will be launched within one month.

ISABELLE: And when I say experience, it’s not only tours and activities, but also for people in their place of residence, possibility to get theatre tickets, shows, etc.

ISABELLE: So this will also be a way to get the program in the day to day life.

ISABELLE: And obviously we are working very strongly with the airlines.

PAULA: This was my next question.

PAULA: I thought this was genius.

PAULA: Tell us about your double dip partnership.

ISABELLE: Yes, so we have built with Flying Blue, the Air France KLM’s loyalty program.

PAULA: Brilliant, of course.

ISABELLE: This miles plus points partnership where members when they fly with Flying Blue, they will earn their miles, but they will also earn all points.

ISABELLE: And when they stay at the hotel, they will not only earn all points, they will also earn Flying Blue miles.

ISABELLE: So they earn the two currencies, whether they fly or whether they stay with us.

ISABELLE: And this is really a very, very, very efficient way of relying on the power of the both partners in order to drive and maximize the business.

ISABELLE: Because, I mean, the perspective of being able to earn both currencies is really very, very strong.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah.

PAULA: And I don’t think I’ve heard of any other partnership that has that double dipping in the travel industry.

ISABELLE: I think one of our US competitors did it with one American carrier, but not at that scale, not at the scale of maybe they did it for the upper tiers, but they didn’t do it for every member.

ISABELLE: And this model will soon, in the Pacific region, will be launching.

ISABELLE: I think that the moment the podcast is out, we will have launched our partnership with Qantas, a strengthened partnership with Qantas, which will also propose a Miles Plus Points component, meaning double dipping.

PAULA: Yes.

PAULA: Oh my goodness.

PAULA: Super exciting.

ISABELLE: You know, the interesting thing is that, and I know it well coming from the airline industry, the airline loyalty programs used to look at the hotel loyalty programs a little like a secondary.

ISABELLE: Yeah, little sister.

ISABELLE: Because they invented the business, which is new.

ISABELLE: Those who started this business were the airline loyalty programs.

ISABELLE: And when we said we were, I think, the first one to propose to airlines, we should do two ways conversions.

ISABELLE: Oh, no.

ISABELLE: Oh, no, no, no.

ISABELLE: How can it be that people want to earn your points and not my miles?

ISABELLE: That’s not possible.

ISABELLE: Well, yes, it is.

ISABELLE: And we’ve proven that we can do it.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah.

PAULA: But it proves your point, Isabelle, as well about the day to day relevance, I guess, of a brand like Accor and all.

PAULA: Because, as you said, it could be simply dining in one of your restaurants.

PAULA: It could be using the spa.

PAULA: It’s not necessarily the stay.

PAULA: Or even if it is the stay, it might be a stay for three, four, who knows how many nights.

PAULA: Whereas a flight, actually, just in terms of its duration, is relatively short.

PAULA: And I know you’ve made that distinction that I guess the hotel has a bigger opportunity maybe to build loyalty purely by the length of time you’re connecting with people.

ISABELLE: Yes, yes, yes.

ISABELLE: The length of stay and the fact that it is an opportunity for our hotels and our brands to reinforce the link with the customer and strengthen the relation with the customer much more than on a short flight.

ISABELLE: Yes, that’s true.

PAULA: Yeah, for sure.

PAULA: The last piece I wanted to talk to you about, Isabelle, was a fabulous video, which again was shown at the conference here in Dubai.

PAULA: And I’m hoping we can link to this for everybody listening to obviously the podcast.

PAULA: But just a genius video to demonstrate loyalty, I guess, to the Paris St Germain team as a way and equating that, I guess, to the hotel loyalty.

PAULA: So would you maybe just tell us a bit about this fabulous, fun video you guys created?

ISABELLE: Yes.

ISABELLE: So it’s a video where people show up at the reception.

ISABELLE: I think we shot in three of our hotels in three different brands and three different cities in Europe.

ISABELLE: And people show up at the reception and they are fans of another team.

ISABELLE: And then the receptionist starts explaining, oh, I have a fantastic offer to make to you.

ISABELLE: You will have an upgrade.

ISABELLE: You will have a complimentary pool, complimentary breakfast, the big blah, blah, blah.

ISABELLE: And the only thing you need to do is to wear a Paris St Germain shirt.

ISABELLE: And obviously, you know, it’s filmed as a hidden camera.

ISABELLE: And obviously, the guy who’s maybe a Manchester or a Real Madrid supporter or a buyer says, no, no, it’s not possible.

ISABELLE: And at the end, because they stick firm, they remain loyal to their football club.

ISABELLE: And because they remain loyal to their team, at the end, we say, well, you know, we value loyalty so much.

ISABELLE: Let’s forget about the shirt.

ISABELLE: We reward you with a diamond status.

ISABELLE: And you know, it’s to demonstrate what loyalty is.

PAULA: Yeah.

ISABELLE: And the nice thing about this movie, because we did a lot of previous movies with Paris St Germain, this one was within our hotels.

ISABELLE: It was showcasing Paris St Germain, but not so much.

ISABELLE: It was showcasing loyalty inside the environment of the hotels.

ISABELLE: And I know that our countries and our regions are very fond of this movie, much more than the other ones, which were also nice movies with Paris St Germain, but this one was really focused on hotels.

ISABELLE: And they are taking ownership of that movie because it’s happening in the hotels.

ISABELLE: So with bringing Paris St Germain inside, I would say inside the hotel, we really managed to make this blend and this link between all Accor Live Limitless and the hotel.

ISABELLE: And as I was explaining earlier, one of the things we want to develop is increase the awareness of all being before everything a hotel loyalty program.

ISABELLE: It’s a way of doing it.

ISABELLE: And I would encourage everyone to go and watch it on YouTube.

ISABELLE: It’s available on YouTube.

ISABELLE: So I would encourage everyone to go and watch it on YouTube.

PAULA: I will make sure, Isabelle, to link to it in the show notes.

PAULA: And when we send this podcast out as well to all the listeners, I’ll make sure we include that video as well because it would be great.

PAULA: Honestly, well, I saw the reaction.

PAULA: And as you know, there was, I think, 180 loyalty professionals, you know, at the conference together watching and such, you know, everyone connected and laughed and really went.

PAULA: That was a brilliant piece of marketing.

ISABELLE: So now that I’ve told the story, I spoiled everyone.

ISABELLE: I’m sorry.

PAULA: No, I know.

PAULA: But it’s important because we all love loyalty so much to see it demonstrated by consumers and, you know, genuinely tempted with alternatives.

PAULA: And it was a clever approach.

PAULA: So we’ll definitely make sure to link to that.

PAULA: Well, before we go, I guess I just wanted to thank our friends in Collinson for connecting us.

PAULA: I know you’ve been working with them for a long time.

ISABELLE: Yes, they are providing us the technological platform, which enables all the redemption, eShop, but also the experiences.

ISABELLE: So thanks.

ISABELLE: We really are grateful for their cooperation and it’s been a few years of solid partnership with them.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: That’s always good to hear.

PAULA: Yeah, no.

PAULA: And I was delighted because, as I said, I was at the event.

PAULA: I saw the Accor presentation, didn’t get a chance to go and, you know, connect with the guys to invite them on the show.

PAULA: And then we were connected directly.

PAULA: So that was fantastic.

PAULA: So, listen, I think I’ve asked everything from my side, Isabelle.

PAULA: Is there anything else you want to mention for listeners before we wrap up?

ISABELLE: Look, I would invite all the listeners to become members of all Accor Live Limitless and experience it themselves.

ISABELLE: And don’t hesitate to send to send their feedback to me.

PAULA: Wonderful.

ISABELLE: Isabelle.Birem at accor.com.

PAULA: Oh, fantastic.

ISABELLE: I love customer feedback.

PAULA: Okay.

ISABELLE: Don’t hesitate.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Yes.

PAULA: Well, I signed up just for my recent stay because I did stay over for the conference as well, Isabelle.

PAULA: So I’m a fully signed up member myself now.

PAULA: Very excited about the proposition.

PAULA: So listen, I think it’s a great place to finish up.

PAULA: So I just want to say Isabelle Birem, Senior Vice President of Loyalty at Accor.

PAULA: Thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty.

ISABELLE: Thank you, Paula.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketeer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research.

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