Paula Thomas, Oprah of Loyalty wins The 2025 International Loyalty Personality of the Year (#674)

PAULA: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

PAULA: Today’s episode is hosted by Amanda Cromhout, the founder of Truth, an international loyalty consultancy.

PAULA: She’s also the author of the book, Blind Loyalty, 101 Loyalty Concepts, Radically Simplified.

PAULA: Enjoy.

AMANDA: Hi, I’m Amanda Cromhout, the CEO of Truth and the author of Blind Loyalty.

AMANDA: Today’s interview is with someone you need no introduction to.

AMANDA: It’s our very own Paula Thomas, the CEO and founder of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

AMANDA: Paula is also infamously known as the Oprah of Loyalty, and as of two weeks ago at the International Loyalty Awards, she was crowned the 2025 International Loyalty Personality of the Year.

AMANDA: So that’s why I wanted to interview Paula.

AMANDA: There’s lots to share.

AMANDA: She talks us through the reasons why she established this enormously successful podcast in our niche industry of the loyalty and customer centricity and data world.

AMANDA: And she also shares with us some phenomenal stats.

AMANDA: The main stat that sticks with me is that in a niche industry like Loyalty in B2B, podcasts typically get about 150 listeners per episode.

AMANDA: Let’s Talk Loyalty with Loyalty TV, but Let’s Talk Loyalty as a podcast is receiving over 650 listeners per episode.

AMANDA: That is a phenomenal growth in our industry and in the podcasting environment for the loyalty industry as a whole.

AMANDA: So I hope you enjoy listening to Paula as she shares what really means a lot to her around loyalty and around podcasting in particular, and of course, what it means for her to win this very, very prestigious award.

AMANDA: Today’s Loyalty TV is extra special because you’ve got two of us on screen, who you see regularly, but we’re in reverse roles, and you’ve got a host hosting our fabulous founder of Loyalty TV and Let’s Talk Loyalty.

AMANDA: Paula Thomas needs no introduction to anyone listening to this incredible loyalty show.

AMANDA: But we have today’s podcast and Loyalty TV show for a special reason, because not only is Paula our Oprah of loyalty, but she is the newly crowned 2025 International Loyalty Personality of the Year.

AMANDA: So Paula, big, enormous round of applause for you.

AMANDA: And welcome to your show, Loyalty TV.

PAULA: Thank you, Amanda, coming from a former queen of loyalty and the 2023, of course, International Loyalty Personality of the Year.

PAULA: I can’t believe we’re having this conversation.

PAULA: Totally thrilled and still a little bit like in a sense of disbelief, Amanda.

PAULA: I don’t know about you, but thank you for doing this.

PAULA: I think it’s something I’ve been looking forward to and wishing for for a very long time.

PAULA: So great to be here to tell the story.

AMANDA: Yeah, it’s magnificent and everyone will want to hear your story.

AMANDA: So let’s go straight into it.

AMANDA: You know the drill.

AMANDA: You know that our first question is what is your either favorite or current read?

AMANDA: Your book?

AMANDA: Is it a business book?

AMANDA: Is it more casual than that?

AMANDA: Share with us what you’re reading or what you love to read.

PAULA: Absolutely, Amanda.

PAULA: I think a lot of people who know me well would know that I suppose one of my key passions when I’m not talking about loyalty is about, I’m going to use the word possibilities.

PAULA: Like to me, life can be tough, life can be hard, but at the same time it can be very exciting.

PAULA: And there are so many things that I have a list actually at home, which is like my list of things that currently feel impossible, but I know they’re actually possible and I can find the way.

PAULA: So, there’s actually a book on that specific topic at the moment that I’m reading.

PAULA: It’s a very famous author, a gentleman by the name of Dr.

PAULA: Wayne Dyer.

PAULA: And this particular book, now honestly, Amanda, he’s written, I’d say, 40 or 50 books.

PAULA: He’s now unfortunately deceased, but the particular one is called Wishes Fulfilled.

PAULA: And I suppose, given that we’re here about something that was for me for many years, just a wish that I really, really had, that wish has been fulfilled.

PAULA: So I’m loving listening to that book at the moment.

AMANDA: No, that’s stunning, stunning, stunning.

AMANDA: You know, I always love books, especially about personal development.

AMANDA: So I’ll certainly take note of that one.

AMANDA: But I also want to put you on the spot and ask you the old first question.

AMANDA: And the reason this interests me so much is, as you remember, when we released Blind Loyalty, that’s the last penultimate chapter, chapter 100, with 100 most favorite loyalty programs of loyalty professionals who’d been on your show.

AMANDA: So I’m going to play that one straight back to you.

AMANDA: What is your favorite loyalty program?

AMANDA: If we can ask you that without getting you into trouble.

PAULA: You’re totally right, Amanda.

PAULA: So I’m always a bit nervous about answering.

PAULA: But I think, you know, for me, I have a real passion for innovation.

PAULA: Like that’s something I kind of figured out probably later in life than most people.

PAULA: But with that lens, I suppose, the one that I really do love the most is the BILT Rewards Program out of the United States.

PAULA: And I guess for anybody who hasn’t heard about it, it truly is extraordinary because it has created like a whole new loyalty industry around rewarding people for paying their household rent.

PAULA: Now, I pay rent here in Dubai.

PAULA: It’s, you know, definitely the biggest part of our household budget.

PAULA: And if there was an opportunity like that to earn rewards, Amanda, for sure, there’d be no question.

PAULA: I would always want to be in a BILT Rewards property.

PAULA: And of course, the landlord would love it as well.

PAULA: So big shout out to BILT Rewards.

PAULA: Not something I can personally engage with, but definitely in terms of what they’ve created, it’s absolutely beautiful.

PAULA: And it’s a new model, new mechanic.

PAULA: So yeah, really, really ticks all the boxes for me.

AMANDA: It’s so funny you said that because a few weeks ago, I was at a few months ago, actually, I was at a marketing forum in Cape Town, and the opening teaser was, what is your favorite challenger brand?

AMANDA: And I used BILT Rewards as an example.

AMANDA: And the audience were like, what?

AMANDA: We’ve never heard of that.

AMANDA: So it was an incredible story to tell.

AMANDA: So yeah, lovely.

AMANDA: Gets my vote as well.

PAULA: It totally does.

PAULA: And the people behind it are particularly impressive, Amanda.

PAULA: I won’t go into all of them now, but the founder, certainly he was the former CTO of Tinder, so a big tech background, and then brought in some amazing loyalty professionals to figure out what loyalty model, like how can we monetize this and make it a way that we can obviously drive behavior, which of course, as we know, is people paying their rent on time.

PAULA: But how can we make that profitable and appealing for everybody?

PAULA: So what I always love about loyalty is this idea that everybody gets to win.

PAULA: If I pay my rent on time, I get rewarded.

PAULA: That’s amazing.

PAULA: So does the landlord.

PAULA: And of course, it’s all funded by the likes of credit cards and travel partners.

PAULA: So it’s got all the inspiration and the right market for it as well.

PAULA: Like we certainly said to them, so many people have said, please come to Dubai, please come, whatever.

PAULA: But I think the US, of course, there’s just so much opportunity they’re going to focus there for now.

PAULA: But yeah, can’t help but give big shout out of admiration to them.

AMANDA: Yeah, super.

AMANDA: Absolutely super.

AMANDA: Okay, so we know that Loyalty TV, well, Let’s Talk Loyalty as a brand has been with us for over five years, and you had the courage to launch the brand with various reasons behind it, and we’ll come on to that.

AMANDA: But you didn’t just, as far as I know, and we’ve had many a conversation as friends, as professionals in the loyalty industry, you didn’t just pop out of nowhere and decide to do a loyalty podcast as far as the world knows.

AMANDA: So I think share with your audience on Loyalty TV, your loyalty pedigree and where you’ve come from through this loyalty journey.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Thanks a million, Amanda.

PAULA: So for me, I suppose the first thing was, I suppose, when I saw the power of loyalty.

PAULA: And that goes back, would you believe, now 25 years.

PAULA: I was incredibly lucky.

PAULA: I did have a beautiful job at the time back in Emirates.

PAULA: I was the head of e-commerce.

PAULA: And certainly in the year 2000, Amanda, I’m sure you’ll remember it as I’m sure plenty of our audience will as well.

PAULA: But 100% of travel bookings at the time were done through travel agencies.

PAULA: And we had launched an online booking engine and we had no way to communicate it and incentivize it.

PAULA: But of course, Skywards had just been launched as well.

PAULA: So I built a promotion where we connected Skywards to the Emirates online booking engine.

PAULA: And it just took my breath away, Amanda.

PAULA: And you will have seen campaigns like this, but it had a couple of really powerful things that, again, I hadn’t appreciated.

PAULA: First of all, we had communications capacity with our most frequent travelers.

PAULA: Secondly, we could do below the line communications that didn’t alienate travel agencies.

PAULA: So we were able to just to send, say, you know, get Triple Miles of You book online.

PAULA: And so, yeah, that was the, I suppose, the original lightbulb moment.

PAULA: And then fast forward, I suppose, I was lucky enough during the horrendous global recession that we all went through in kind of 2010 to be asked to go in and support a telecommunications program back in Ireland.

PAULA: And that was for me, I suppose, very easy in the immediate responsibility I had, which was actually negotiating exclusive partnerships with high street brands.

PAULA: So that quite simply, the proposition was if you were with Telefonica O2, most people know O2 as a telecommunications brand, you’d get like 20% off in your favorite, like, you know, fashion store, whatever, or cinema.

PAULA: I think we all know the cinema proposition.

PAULA: And I just thought it was extraordinary.

PAULA: And I guess at the same time, I had a total sense of imposter syndrome.

PAULA: I was like, I don’t know what to do with this thing.

PAULA: I want to do the best in the world.

PAULA: We don’t have a currency.

PAULA: Are we supposed to have a currency?

PAULA: So I definitely have more questions than answers.

PAULA: So that planted the seed of, I’m hungry to learn.

PAULA: There are things that people are doing with their loyalty programs that I just want to ask them what they’re doing and why.

PAULA: So long answer to a short question.

PAULA: But that’s why I suppose when it came to 2019 and I was like, right, I’m done with the consultancy stuff, but I feel like there’s something here.

PAULA: And if I have that craving for knowledge, there’s probably a lot of people around the world who do have it too.

PAULA: So that’s what launched Let’s Talk Loyalty.

AMANDA: Just circling back to 2000, your story about Emirates and the launch of Skywards.

AMANDA: And I know they’ve just celebrated their 25th anniversary.

AMANDA: It was a magnificent conference.

AMANDA: And it’s incredible what you said in such simple terms, like so you can communicate with permission.

AMANDA: Even today, we still get those debates with clients who don’t truly understand the power of loyalty.

AMANDA: And that simple jaw-dropping moment is so basic to those of us in loyalty now.

AMANDA: But there are still so many companies out there today that still don’t necessarily feel that or get it.

AMANDA: So we always sort of say to ourselves, like, that’s so basic and obviously everyone knows that.

AMANDA: But actually, if we’re loyalty people, we know that.

AMANDA: But if you’re not loyalty people and you’re trying to think about whether to go down the strategic avenue of loyalty, often that isn’t even known.

AMANDA: So we must remember that in the simplest of terms.

AMANDA: So, well, I think you’ve given us a sense of why you started Let’s Talk Loyalty.

AMANDA: Just really place on the map why you’ve done it.

AMANDA: Because as a brand in our industry, you’re so part of our DNA now, you personally and Loyalty TV and obviously Let’s Talk Loyalty.

AMANDA: So why did you launch into such a courageous new industry?

PAULA: Well, genuinely, Amanda, like I had fallen in love with podcasts as a format.

PAULA: So for me, when I was out for a walk or doing the dishes at home, there was always this, I suppose, way to feel like I was being quite productive with my time, driving to meetings, for example, as well.

PAULA: So commuting is a real like podcast time.

PAULA: So I think I just noticed that there was obviously no podcast for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: The knowledge was definitely being craved.

PAULA: And we can see by all of the conferences, of course, that serve that same need.

PAULA: But I was sitting in Dublin, the closest conferences were in London.

PAULA: I never got to the US.

PAULA: I certainly didn’t have a travel budget.

PAULA: So I just kind of went, it just feels like really obvious that this industry could do with the podcast.

PAULA: And I can honestly tell you, Amanda, so many people who don’t listen to podcasts professionally still think, oh, that’s just for true crime, or it’s just people like Joe Rogan, for example.

PAULA: I’m like, in a professional context, when I want to learn something, I will go and find a podcast because the conversations where the light bulbs come for me.

PAULA: So I don’t have to have more screen time.

PAULA: And I can literally hear people discussing thing with context.

PAULA: And I guess the other piece, and this is always something that I have, I suppose, been just blown away by the format as well.

PAULA: And I’m guessing you get this as well.

PAULA: But it’s the sense that people feel connected to me as a human being or you as a human being because we share our voice.

PAULA: And that’s unexpected.

PAULA: But yeah, there’s something very intimate about it.

PAULA: So video has a role, loyalty TV, of course, we love, but I still think audio has a separate magic maybe that I’ve never fallen out of love with.

AMANDA: So I’m going to share this with everyone because Paula probably won’t.

AMANDA: She’s too humble to share this.

AMANDA: But I’ve been at a million conferences with Paula where someone hears her voice and obviously sees her face, comes up to you and hugs you as if you’re their long lost friend.

AMANDA: And you’re like, don’t want to be rude, but who are you?

AMANDA: So I tend to step in and go, hi, I’m Amanda.

AMANDA: And then they’ll say their name and then you know who they are.

AMANDA: But like, it is incredible.

AMANDA: Your voice is so well known.

AMANDA: And now I think with Loyalty TV, your face obviously is so well known.

AMANDA: But you’re absolutely right.

AMANDA: Your voice almost precedes you.

AMANDA: But that doesn’t mean to say that you as a person aren’t big enough, you know, like, but you’re absolutely right.

AMANDA: I’ve seen it play out with you for several years, actually spending time at conferences with you.

PAULA: Well, absolutely, Amanda.

PAULA: And it is always a joy when somebody comes along and behaves like that.

PAULA: And one of my favorite marketers actually, and I suppose this kind of made it feel more more understandable for me, perhaps.

PAULA: But one of my favorite marketers is Professor Scott Galloway.

PAULA: He’s a big brain in the US, and he described it as well.

PAULA: Same experience.

PAULA: Obviously, he’s much bigger than we are.

PAULA: But he says if he meets somebody on the street and they treat him like an old friend, then he knows they listen to his podcast.

PAULA: If they high five and they’re all cool and they behave in that kind of, you know, bro manner, then they’re probably watching them on YouTube.

PAULA: And I just thought that that was extraordinary.

AMANDA: Yeah, interesting.

PAULA: So the channel and the format changes the emotional loyalty, dare I say it.

PAULA: There is a connection that audio brings, and it might be the fact that we’re not distracted by the visuals, by the face, and we’re just listening to an authentic voice, because I don’t think we can hide what we’re saying, of course, when we’re on the microphone.

PAULA: So I think there’s an authenticity there that I’ve said it to you before, actually, when we did a recording.

PAULA: I think podcasts have a power that still hasn’t even been, we haven’t even scratched the surface.

PAULA: So I think every brand should even have a podcast.

PAULA: It just works so well.

AMANDA: Yeah, lovely insight, because some of us maybe don’t think about it as deeply as you do, because it’s your profession now.

AMANDA: So it’s okay, so we celebrated last year, your fifth birthday on Let’s Talk Loyalty.

AMANDA: So that’s an enormous milestone for any business.

AMANDA: So congratulations to the team.

AMANDA: So how is it going?

AMANDA: I think those of us who run loyalty programs or consultants in the loyalty industry probably don’t really think about what it takes to launch a media channel and a podcast that can last over five years.

AMANDA: How is it going?

AMANDA: Can you share with us some of the successes and some of the tough times?

AMANDA: Like what’s also not going so well or what hasn’t gone so well?

PAULA: Totally Amanda.

PAULA: And that’s some of my team’s favorite questions as well.

PAULA: They’re like, I know, like I do have a nickname of Positive Paula with my friends in Ireland, but you know, no business, especially I think small businesses is perfect for sure.

PAULA: So in terms of how it’s going to set context, first of all, when I started the podcast, I was told to expect about 150 listeners per episode.

PAULA: And that was coming from a very realistic understanding, of course, that, you know, if we do go to a loyalty conference or any, I suppose, conference particularly, you’re likely to get 150 people in the room, particularly in a tiny niche like ours.

PAULA: So I was like, that’s totally fine.

PAULA: And that’s the expectation I set with sponsors, of course, as well, because we didn’t want to over promise.

PAULA: But honestly, the content is so evergreen, Amanda, as you know, we on average now get over 650 listens per podcast.

PAULA: And that might mean, you know, in the first month, we get 300, and the next 350 take five years to come through, and that’s OK.

PAULA: But the point is, every single episode will be heard 650 times.

PAULA: So that blows my mind that we can scale it.

PAULA: We’ve had 360,000 plays purely in audio over the last again, as you said, five and a half years.

PAULA: And I feel like we’re still just dabbling with our loyalty TV.

PAULA: And definitely a big focus for me for the future.

PAULA: I think what I’ve learned for the last while, maybe one of our challenges is we thought we could just record the video and audio and publish and produce on two totally different platforms without really understanding.

PAULA: And that actually was something that you can’t really do.

PAULA: As we’re producing now for YouTube, particularly because I really believe in YouTube, we have to produce a very specific format.

PAULA: So we’re just learning how to do that now and how to market content.

PAULA: So that’s, I suppose, the main highs and lows.

PAULA: I think in general, then the other piece that’s again, probably every small business’s pet peeve is if we have payment delays from clients, it’s very rare, I will say, but yeah, if I get extra stressed out, it usually means that somebody’s forgotten to pay our invoice.

PAULA: And I’m like, oh my God, that’s something we can’t afford to ever risk.

PAULA: Of course, we’ve got salaries to pay and stuff.

PAULA: So that’s just something as a business owner, I hadn’t realized would be such a consistent focus just to keep on top of.

PAULA: But anyway, we’re good now.

PAULA: We’ve got amazing sponsors, so I’m very grateful to all of those.

PAULA: But yeah, life’s not perfect, but we’re very proud.

AMANDA: Those stats are phenomenal.

AMANDA: Like I actually, I mean, obviously I work with you on the show and love to see the stats from Puja around the shows that I’m hosting.

AMANDA: But I don’t think I’ve really appreciated it until listening to you now, that if we’re getting approximately 650 per show, but a B2B niche is expected to be 150, that’s super.

AMANDA: It’s very, very encouraging.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And I think the reason that I always introduce it that way, Amanda, is again, because nobody knows what to expect.

PAULA: You know, like, you know, there’s obviously mass media podcasts in the consumer space.

PAULA: Again, Joe Rogan is probably the best known.

PAULA: And his interview, for example, with Donald Trump before the election has had 50 million views.

PAULA: So when I’m talking to people about our little show in our little niche, I need to make it relevant to what they would expect if they were sponsoring a conference.

PAULA: We’ve both been to some amazing conferences recently.

PAULA: Obviously our friends, Comark and Crackout particularly.

PAULA: And we can see what goes into creating extraordinary content at scale and getting people in the room.

PAULA: And there’s no substitution.

PAULA: I think we all love doing that.

PAULA: And we see our friends and we have a different type of connection, but at the same time, if you want to have an audience at scale, then of course podcasts for sure is the way to do it.

PAULA: So yeah, so thanks for all the kind words.

AMANDA: Yeah, super.

AMANDA: That’s super.

AMANDA: So what if I force you to say one or two things, what are you most proud of over the five years in terms of what your brand’s achieved?

PAULA: So I would say my team, first and foremost, Amanda, so you’ve already mentioned them.

PAULA: So we have John on the production side, we have Pooja on everything, content, guests, community, bless her.

PAULA: She’s kind of like an executive assistant, finance everything.

PAULA: And we’ve just been joined by new sales manager, Eilish.

PAULA: And so, yeah, so for me, like finding the right people who love to work in our industry, who are happy to work for me because I can be tough, and who love to work with each other and having the overall perspective that, you know, there are clients that need to be looked after, there’s an audience that need to be looked after, there’s guests, there’s guest hosts.

PAULA: Like I’m amazed by how well they do that.

PAULA: And we’re all figuring out as we go.

PAULA: And the next thing would be you guys as our guest host and you are where my first and still I think is a two and a half years you’re hosting for us now, Amanda.

AMANDA: Yeah, I think so.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: I mean, it blows my mind, you know, it’s like, like, it’s not just my voice now.

PAULA: There are incredible people with incredible perspectives like you.

PAULA: You know, we’ve got the two guys and the wise marketer in the UK, pardon me, in the US.

PAULA: We have Charlie Hills in the UK, we have Carly Newbauer in the US, and we’ve just been joined by Brigitte Blais Chemin as well in the US.

PAULA: Everybody’s got this extraordinary depth of knowledge and our audience love you guys.

PAULA: So it’s giving me time to go and say, right, how can I build the audience so that you have a global profile?

PAULA: And it’s just, again, a bit of a win-win-win.

PAULA: So I’m thrilled with that.

PAULA: And obviously our sponsors and everyone who’s ever been a guest on the show.

PAULA: I mean, I obviously, you know, when we did, you know, get the award, and was it two weeks ago now?

PAULA: I was like, I really have to thank everybody.

PAULA: And it’s suddenly a very long list, but genuinely grateful, like as well as Comark, with Capillary, with Marigold, with Collinson Group.

PAULA: They all sponsor our show long term.

PAULA: We couldn’t do it without them.

PAULA: And every single person who comes to share their story about their loyalty program as a guest, like we literally couldn’t have a show without them.

PAULA: So big shout out to all our guests.

AMANDA: Yeah, of course.

AMANDA: Absolutely.

AMANDA: Well, let’s circle back two weeks because that’s actually one of the main reason why we’re chatting today.

AMANDA: So I’m going to share with everybody listening to this how it played out.

AMANDA: So when last year’s winner, Zuzu Keksma, announced this year’s winner Paula Thomas, the whole room erupted when your name was announced.

AMANDA: So I think that in its own right is an absolute accolade, if nothing else.

AMANDA: Everybody in the room obviously supported the decision of the International Loyalty Awards organizers.

AMANDA: You previously have been a judge on the International Loyalty Awards.

AMANDA: Obviously, you have a wonderful and long history with the organization of the ILA.

AMANDA: But yeah, I mean, obviously, I’ve personally experienced something like that myself a while ago, but hearing the reaction in the room to your announcement was very special as a friend of yours and a colleague of yours.

AMANDA: So just share with us, you know, obviously, you’ve everyone’s listening can understand why you were given the award, but share with us.

AMANDA: I think we can tell what it means for you, but let’s scratch under the surface a little bit.

PAULA: Yeah, no, thanks a million, Amanda.

PAULA: The reaction was unbelievable.

PAULA: I was very moved.

PAULA: I hadn’t really expected the joy and just the sense of pride, my own team and everybody.

PAULA: My husband was there.

PAULA: So genuinely, it was a magical moment.

PAULA: And I’m very glad the way it is done.

PAULA: As you well know, the organizers did give me a heads up just a few days in advance.

PAULA: Just I suppose to psychologically prepare for the enormity of what it means.

PAULA: And, you know, the people who have won before, obviously yourself, as we said, 2023, Susie Keksmaier last year, 2024.

PAULA: But going back, we have Gabby Kuhl, we have Brian Pearson, and Sir Keith Mills, Colin Evans.

PAULA: Like to be in that illustrious company is still extraordinary to me.

PAULA: So like I love the fact that there is now such an amazing judging panel, and much bigger than when I was judging.

PAULA: For example, of course, you’re one of those judges.

PAULA: But I think the organizers have done an amazing job of broadening the number of judges.

PAULA: And I think this is the most coveted award.

PAULA: And actually, anybody who is watching on Loyalty TV, I’m just going to show the actual beautiful piece of glassware that I was presented with on the night.

PAULA: So yeah, so to answer your question, it was a joy.

PAULA: I’ve been nominated before, Amanda.

PAULA: So I think if it hadn’t happened this year, I probably would have just kind of been too disappointed to ever have expected or hoped for it again.

PAULA: But the fact that it was in my home city as well of Dubai, so many people had flown in for the conference beforehand and were there present.

PAULA: So for the whole evening, actually, I was delighted it was done at the start of the evening.

PAULA: I thought it was going to be at the end, but then it meant I could relax.

PAULA: We bought the champagne and I was just getting hugged all night.

PAULA: So it was just amazing.

PAULA: So a real joy.

AMANDA: Absolutely stunning.

AMANDA: And it’s not just about 2025.

AMANDA: It’s a lifetime award.

AMANDA: So I can never take that away from you.

AMANDA: So from everyone listening, a massive, massive congratulations.

AMANDA: It’s super, really is very special.

PAULA: Thank you so much.

PAULA: Yes.

PAULA: I haven’t even caught up with all the LinkedIn messages and all the love.

PAULA: So yeah, I’m just trying to get used to it and enjoy the moment.

PAULA: So yes, thanks a million.

PAULA: And again, you know well how it feels.

AMANDA: And I also know that it’s back to business the day you get back to work, right?

AMANDA: Totally, and as enormous as it is, it’s still your back to business.

AMANDA: So what can we expect from your fantastic brand, Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV going into the future?

PAULA: Well, honestly, I suppose we’re at a very important and exciting point.

PAULA: Amanda, you know that I am less interested now in broadcasting and more interested in building the business.

PAULA: So for me, that has become, you know, a joyful opportunity, as I said, with so many amazing guest hosts to hand the baton over.

PAULA: I still have a few commitments I’ve promised to record a couple of episodes throughout kind of June, July, maybe even one or two later than that.

PAULA: But the audience will be hearing my voice, I suppose, introducing all of you.

PAULA: So I want my voice, of course, to remain part of the show.

PAULA: But I want us to be doing you fun stuff.

PAULA: So what I’ve realized I’m actually pretty good at doing is listening for pain points.

PAULA: And that’s something I’ve realized I need to do more of.

PAULA: So I need to understand, you know, what are people struggling with in our industry?

PAULA: Can I fix it?

PAULA: And of course, with education and the inspiration that this show brings, I feel like we’re doing a huge amount.

PAULA: But I think there’s so much more.

PAULA: So I can’t tell you what it’s going to look like.

PAULA: I will say I have a sneaky ebook under production at the moment on just a fun topic, nothing too serious, nothing like anything that’s been published before.

PAULA: But just a couple of people I’ve worked with recently were just like, oh, that sounds like a fun thing.

PAULA: Let’s do that.

PAULA: So that will be something that will give us, I suppose, a bit of thought leadership just to kind of see, you know, how we can start to contribute again in other formats.

PAULA: And so that will come out later in the year.

PAULA: And then I don’t really know.

PAULA: But as I said, I’m hungry.

PAULA: I’m feeling the entrepreneurial buzz and keen to scratch the itch.

AMANDA: Stunning.

AMANDA: Amazing.

PAULA: Okay.

AMANDA: So my last question.

AMANDA: Now you are queen of loyalty, not just Oprah’s loyalty.

AMANDA: If you could wave a magic wand over our industry, what would you like to see change or improve?

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: I was really glad you gave me this one in advance, Amanda, because it did take time to really think about, you know, given how extraordinary this industry is, given that it’s growing so exponentially, what more should we be doing?

PAULA: And what I got to actually was I would love to see more chief loyalty officers being appointed in businesses around the world.

PAULA: Because what I feel like is, you know, we’ve got now the technology, of course, we’ve got the methodology, we’ve got the global expertise that we need.

PAULA: And one of my guests, actually, I’ll never forget, you know, just a direct quote that came up in a previous podcast, one of the guys in Ellipsis that we love down in Australia, he was like, customers are your only source of revenue.

PAULA: Like, and I was like, that is so true, my goodness.

PAULA: So I can’t understand how any business owner would not make that front and center of their business.

PAULA: So CLOs, that’s my goal, my magic wand.

PAULA: I’m going to wish everybody success in bidding for that role in their company.

PAULA: I think it’s very different, the CMOs, which of course is equally important.

PAULA: But if there is a global agenda that businesses could have, then I would love to see that coming through.

AMANDA: Incredible, incredible.

AMANDA: Love it.

AMANDA: Okay, let’s go for the CLO.

AMANDA: I mean, obviously, there’s Chief Customer Officers, but that typically gets roped into that as customer service and customer experience.

AMANDA: So, yeah, and loyalty is quite different for us, certainly from customer service.

AMANDA: I was having this debate with an organization recently around everything they wanted to wrap into a CCO role, Chief Customer Officer.

AMANDA: And I was like, 100%, I understand it, but that pillar of loyalty and CRM and data is quite different from everything else you’ve described.

AMANDA: So, super.

AMANDA: Okay.

AMANDA: So, Paula, you’ve given lovely insight into the growth of your fantastic brand that we listen to several times a week and what the future holds, and what this award means for you in recognition of the hard work you’ve put in, but also putting your company name further on the map, not just to the listeners, but to the broader audience.

AMANDA: So, I think from absolutely everybody listening, and certainly from your hosts around the world, that all of us as a team, we’re exceptionally proud of you and congratulations.

AMANDA: And thank you for doing this discussion and sharing the insights with everybody.

PAULA: Thank you so much, Amanda.

PAULA: I’m thrilled to bits and thank you for being such a great friend of me and the show.

PAULA: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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