#157: L'Oreal, Wyndham Hotels and Toys R Us - Loyalty Insights with Alyssa Callahan

PAULA: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.

PAULA: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from Loyalty Specialists around the world.

PAULA: This episode is brought to you by Epsilon and their award-winning People Cloud Loyalty Solution.

PAULA: Personalization should be integrated into the entire customer experience, including, of course, your loyalty program.

PAULA: With this in mind, Epsilon recently released a guide outlining six key components that will put you on the path to personalizing your entire loyalty experience.

PAULA: This guide challenges you to do some housekeeping and reconsider how you think about your current and future loyalty personalization efforts.

PAULA: So, to download your copy of the report, visit epsilon.com forward slash let’s talk loyalty.

PAULA: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty when I’m chatting with Alyssa Callahan, a lady who has spent more than 10 years in a variety of fabulous loyalty roles for leading brands like Toys R Us and Wyndham Hotels.

PAULA: Most recently, Alyssa has been appointed Director of Loyalty at L’Oreal Cosmetics for the Luxe Division with responsibility to help build customer loyalty for some incredible brands like Lancome, Kiehl’s, Yves Saint Laurent and other incredible luxury products.

PAULA: In our conversation, we talked through some of the critical success factors driving loyalty with consumers that Alyssa has learned in her career to date.

PAULA: So, I really hope you enjoy this exciting episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: So, Alyssa, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: It’s great to have you on the show.

ALYSSA: Hi Paula, it’s great to be here.

ALYSSA: I’ve been listening to your podcast for the last few years and I am thrilled to be chatting with you today.

PAULA: Oh, you know, it just warms my heart when somebody says that, Alyssa.

PAULA: I’m super proud.

PAULA: I know how precious attention is.

PAULA: So, thank you for listening.

ALYSSA: Yes, of course.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Great.

PAULA: So, I think what we’ve talked about is we’re going to obviously start with our favorite loyalty statistic and you have one that I’m a huge fan of that has been talked about before, but certainly not nearly enough.

PAULA: So, we’ll definitely get into that.

PAULA: But just before I even ask that question, I really do feel that this is part one of two, or maybe more, because it was your recent job appointment with L’Oreal that totally caught my attention on LinkedIn.

PAULA: So, quick congratulations for taking over as the loyalty director role for the Luxe Division.

ALYSSA: Thank you so much.

ALYSSA: Yes, I have been so blessed to be starting this new role that I’m very excited to be part of this company.

ALYSSA: And there’s a lot of work to be done, so I would love to come back in the future and share the updates and the progress that I’ve made once I’ve had time to really dig into the role.

PAULA: Exactly.

PAULA: So, you literally started in August 2021, so we won’t ask any deeper meaningful questions about the current one.

PAULA: But listen, in order to kick us off, Alyssa, tell us your favorite loyalty statistic.

ALYSSA: Yes, I love this.

ALYSSA: So, my favorite loyalty statistic is one that I know many of us have heard before, and it’s something that’s followed me throughout my career in loyalty.

ALYSSA: And it’s really around the difference and the disconnection between how customers perceive the brand’s loyalty to them and how the brands feel that they are treating their customers from a loyalty perspective.

ALYSSA: So, the stat that I have from the 2021 Bond Brand Loyalty Report is that 46% of marketers strongly agree that their brand is loyal to their customers.

ALYSSA: And only 20% of customers strongly agree that that brand is loyal to them.

ALYSSA: And I love this because it really draws attention to just the disconnect in objectives.

ALYSSA: So, customers join programs because they think the brand will show them loyalty.

ALYSSA: And many programs are focused on how is this customer being loyal to me.

ALYSSA: And they need to fit into this loyalty box or expectation that I have from a performance standpoint before I will reciprocate that loyalty.

ALYSSA: So, I’m fascinated by that.

ALYSSA: And I love to see that still be a top statistic this year in the report.

PAULA: Yeah, you’re absolutely right, Alyssa.

PAULA: I think I mentioned to you that it was actually a UK guest of mine, Rob Chandler, from the Sky VIP program who first brought that stat to my attention from a previous Bond brand loyalty report.

PAULA: And like you, when it came out again just a couple of months ago, I was just amazed to see how little progress has been made on that particular metric.

PAULA: And I think you’ve said yourself, Alyssa, your own career.

PAULA: I think you’re almost 10 years now working across some incredible roles.

PAULA: And really, we’re not seeing any progress in this area.

ALYSSA: I agree, yes.

ALYSSA: I’ve been working in a corporate loyalty role since 2010.

ALYSSA: And this was something I was focused on in 2010.

ALYSSA: And it’s something that I’ve continued to focus on.

ALYSSA: And I think that has to do with just the size of the organizations that I’ve managed programs within.

ALYSSA: Just the difference in the amount of teams, the amount of initiatives and promotions and goals.

ALYSSA: And loyalty doesn’t always become part of the overarching branding strategy or marketing strategy.

ALYSSA: And I think that really drives a disconnect.

ALYSSA: And on my loyalty team, that’s always been our goal.

ALYSSA: And the goal of my leader is to really integrate the program throughout every touch point of the customer’s experience with the brand, not just with the program.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: So that sounds like a key objective for you then, Alyssa, that if you’re going into these incredible brands, and just to mention a couple, there’s been Wyndham Hotels, Toys R Us and Aeropostale already, and obviously now L’Oreal, an incredible branch to work for.

PAULA: So do you feel that a key part of the loyalty director’s role is to create the awareness of the responsibility, let’s say, of the company to its customers before expecting it back from them?

ALYSSA: Yes, absolutely.

ALYSSA: That’s a huge objective for me coming into this role.

ALYSSA: And my role in L’Oreal is focused on the Luxe Division.

ALYSSA: So there are four divisions within L’Oreal.

ALYSSA: One is active cosmetics, one is consumer products, a third is professional products, and then we have L’Oreal Luxe, which includes brands such as Lancome, Kiehl’s, It Cosmetics, Urban Decay, Yves Saint Laurent Beauty, Armani Beauty, Mugler, and Victor & Rolf fragrances.

ALYSSA: I think I got them all.

ALYSSA: And they all have loyalty programs, but what drew me to this role and what I love is these are such powerful brands.

ALYSSA: There’s so much strong branding and so much personality and so much to do from a loyalty perspective to incorporate the programs and the branding together.

ALYSSA: So I see huge opportunity for this portfolio.

PAULA: And am I right in understanding, Alyssa, that this is a brand new role within L’Oreal Luxe itself?

ALYSSA: This is a new role, yes.

ALYSSA: So I will be focused on the USA primarily and looking at these brands kind of from a program management and a business strategy standpoint overall at an overarching level for Luxe.

PAULA: Wonderful.

ALYSSA: And it’s really been driven, Paula, I think, and also I should mention D2C.

ALYSSA: So I’m focused on direct to consumer web primarily for these brands.

ALYSSA: And there are not third parties as well where these products are purchased.

ALYSSA: So I think the growth that we’re seeing based on the pandemic, digital as a channel has very much accelerated in the last two years.

ALYSSA: And for L’Oreal Luxe, they’ve seen a huge potential for these brands to continue to be sold online.

ALYSSA: And these brands have loyalty programs that they’re currently operating in, and they’re seeing more activity within them.

ALYSSA: So this role will really be to continue to accelerate loyalty and retention for these brands as that customer behavior has shifted to online.

PAULA: I think I said to you last time we spoke, Alyssa, like it’s like the dream job, you know, I think for anybody who works in loyalty, first of all, for me, I do have a very long time ago, a background in the beauty industry, not with such beautiful luxury products as you have.

PAULA: I was actually a nail technician, would you believe?

PAULA: Random fact, a piece of trivia there for you.

PAULA: But to have such a portfolio of, as you said, extraordinary brands, to have all of those loyalty programs where I guess you’ve got an opportunity to go in and really interpret, decipher and analyze what business performance the loyalty programs are driving and almost compare, contrast and take the best of each.

PAULA: And then I suppose everybody gets to up their game.

ALYSSA: There’s huge potential for synergies between brands and ways that we can find efficiencies and learnings amongst brands.

ALYSSA: So that’s also one of my goals is to really dig into the reporting and how we’re sharing the metrics for each brand between brands with leadership to make sure that everyone has an overall awareness at L’Oreal Luxe level of how the programs are working and then what can be optimized.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Well, it sounds like it’s got plenty of potential, as you said, Alyssa.

PAULA: So I will be super excited to come back and talk exactly about what you do decide to do over the coming months and who knows, even years.

PAULA: And just before we leave the L’Oreal one, why would you say you got the role, particularly Alyssa?

PAULA: And I often think actually as somebody with a voice in the industry that I really do want to help people with their loyalty careers.

PAULA: And a lot of that is around the education, obviously the show itself.

PAULA: But obviously you had something that really L’Oreal saw.

PAULA: So why do you think you got the role?

PAULA: Or is that hard to answer?

ALYSSA: Yes, it is.

ALYSSA: I’m flattered and honored to have the role.

ALYSSA: It really is.

ALYSSA: It’s a dream job for me.

ALYSSA: I’ve said that all along.

ALYSSA: This is just something I couldn’t have pictured or written a job description for a role.

ALYSSA: I would be more excited to come into.

ALYSSA: I think for me, in terms of career growth, I have always made it a personal goal to network as much as I can with others in the loyalty industry, whether that’s in the business side, if it’s on the agency side.

ALYSSA: LinkedIn has been an incredibly useful tool in the more recent years to help me make those connections.

ALYSSA: I also do a lot of reading and research.

ALYSSA: I listen to podcasts.

ALYSSA: Loyalty is my passion.

ALYSSA: It’s something that I also enjoy learning about for fun.

ALYSSA: It’s really something that I truly love.

ALYSSA: I’ve worked to continue to establish myself as someone that’s an expert and that’s known in the industry over time.

ALYSSA: I would give that advice to anyone in a loyalty role that’s looking to advance.

ALYSSA: Do everything you can to become an industry expert.

ALYSSA: Connect with those around you.

ALYSSA: Even on the agency side, I try to talk to everyone that reaches out to me on LinkedIn.

ALYSSA: Even if I can’t change platforms or I can’t adopt a new product, I think every connection you can make in the space is valuable and you can learn something.

ALYSSA: That’s just a personal goal of mine is to have those connections.

ALYSSA: I would like to say that that contributed to me getting the role and then also the experience that I’ve had at Wyndham because Wyndham Hotels has a fantastic loyalty program that spans across 20 brands, highly awarded and recognized.

ALYSSA: So I was really lucky to have worked on that program and gained that visibility as well, which allowed me to take my career to the next step.

PAULA: Wonderful, wonderful.

PAULA: And I definitely do admire your response on LinkedIn.

PAULA: I think it’s a lovely perspective just to be open to connecting with people in that way.

ALYSSA: Yes, of course.

ALYSSA: I think as those in the loyalty industry, we have to stick together.

ALYSSA: I think we’re a little tribe, so it’s important to connect with everyone you can, regardless of their role up there in loyalty.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: And a place I know you do some great connecting, actually.

PAULA: We talked about it briefly offline, Alyssa, but the power of Clubhouse as an extraordinarily, I would say, innovative platform in audio format.

PAULA: So certainly one that I’ve been, I’d say, sitting on the sidelines with.

PAULA: But I know you do connect with a fabulous group there.

PAULA: I think Monday is Loyalty Day.

PAULA: There’s a fabulous group that you talk to or listen to sometimes.

PAULA: So I’d love if you just talk a bit about that group on Clubhouse.

PAULA: So again, anybody listening who wants to learn more might be able to join you there.

ALYSSA: Yes, I love Clubhouse and I believe now it’s open for anyone to join.

ALYSSA: I joined when it was invite only, and I was very excited to get in on the list because it felt very exclusive.

ALYSSA: But it’s a fantastic forum where you can join really any chat room that you want based on topics that you’re interested in.

ALYSSA: And there’s no video, it’s not recorded.

ALYSSA: So I think coming from the brand side, I think there are questions that I may want to ask or discussions I may want to participate in, but I don’t have to worry about anyone recording what I’m saying because it’s really just a free live chat.

ALYSSA: And I found this room through a friend that is driving customer loyalty.

ALYSSA: And it’s a group that meets at 5 p.m.

ALYSSA: Eastern time if you’re in the United States on Monday.

ALYSSA: Sometimes the time changes a bit, but on Clubhouse you can follow that group and receive alerts when the meeting occurs.

ALYSSA: It’s a brilliant room.

ALYSSA: There are experts from different agencies, business owners, some on the brand side.

ALYSSA: There’s a different topic every week that we kind of unpack and get to have an open discussion on.

ALYSSA: And I love it just to tune in and hear what others are thinking, what’s going on in the industry.

ALYSSA: So I would definitely recommend that as a forum for anyone looking to make those connections with others in this space.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: And I see, for example, I’m just looking at the Clubhouse group now.

PAULA: So Shirley King I know is a driver of that group, and she’s been a guest on the show.

PAULA: And we’ll give a shout out to Jill Goldhorn as well.

PAULA: So hopefully we’ll get her on a future episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: So great shout out to that.

PAULA: And thank you for talking us through that.

PAULA: I think I might be staying up later on Monday nights, Alyssa, about the sounds of it.

ALYSSA: Yes, that would be fantastic.

ALYSSA: They would be so excited to see you join.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: So listen, I really just then wanted to go to your Wyndham Hotel days, Alyssa.

PAULA: I know you were there for, I think it was over five years in total.

PAULA: Across a number of different roles.

PAULA: So maybe just talk us through maybe some of the things you learned leading loyalty for such an incredible global brand.

PAULA: I know, for example, you mentioned you did some work with paid loyalty on a subscription basis.

PAULA: So just really would love to share some of the highlights maybe from that particular work that you did.

ALYSSA: Yes, of course.

ALYSSA: So I joined what was Wyndham Destinations at the time.

ALYSSA: Early in 2016, which at the time was a division of Wyndham Worldwide.

ALYSSA: We were one company and that was also a new role that had been created.

ALYSSA: And that was manager of loyalty marketing.

ALYSSA: And the goal of that role, again, was to really accelerate retention through subscription loyalty and through a credit card loyalty program for members.

ALYSSA: Wyndham destinations had many divisions.

ALYSSA: The division that I worked in was called RCI, which is a condominium exchange program where you can subscribe to exchange your week at your timeshare for other weeks of other subscribers for $100 a year or was $100 a year at the time.

ALYSSA: And then you could upgrade that membership to $150 a year to get a platinum membership where you would receive additional benefits.

ALYSSA: So it was really an early subscription model I think at the time because subscription loyalty programs were just starting to come around in 2015, 2016.

ALYSSA: So very interesting for me to really start to focus on the retention piece and how retention marketing and loyalty can really play hand in hand.

ALYSSA: An example of that would be 90 days before your subscription expires, you receive a mailer with an offer.

ALYSSA: Then if you don’t respond 60 days, you get a richer offer.

ALYSSA: 30 days, you get a richer offer.

ALYSSA: And those, I’d say what are textbook retention techniques aren’t always used in loyalty marketing, and we weren’t using them as much in prior programs.

ALYSSA: So there were a lot of learnings there for me.

ALYSSA: And the goal really of that was to bring, the goal of my role was to bring awareness to this elevated tier throughout the experience with the goals of enrolling members into this higher tier and then retaining them.

ALYSSA: So we did a huge project to look at the benefits and say how can we put these benefits in more relevant places on the web so that it wasn’t one touch point for upgrade, you were prompted to upgrade in real time.

ALYSSA: So I’ll give an example, I think one benefit of the platinum tier was that you had more flexibility to exchange your week.

ALYSSA: You didn’t have to lock in where you were going by a certain date, you had more flexibility.

ALYSSA: So an example would be if a member, a base tier member went into the website and wanted to move their week, but they had missed the window.

ALYSSA: So they would get a message that says you’ve missed the window, but upgrade your membership to platinum and unlock the ability to do the action that you’ve come to do, as well as these additional gifts and benefits so that they actually could do that in real time and then do the action that they wanted to do.

PAULA: Well, I was just going to comment that it’s actually solving a problem that the customer is feeling.

PAULA: It’s a really tangible pain point.

PAULA: And I think that’s where a lot of us struggle is to be visible at that right moment in time to be able to solve the problem.

PAULA: And I think you said it was $100 a year.

PAULA: I don’t know, was that for the base level or for the platinum level?

PAULA: But that’s a very affordable price point to solve a problem like, you know, a different destination that I want to go on my holidays.

ALYSSA: Yes, yes.

ALYSSA: So the base membership was $100 a year.

ALYSSA: So that was usually when someone would purchase the timeshare.

ALYSSA: Once they come into the RCI membership, our goal is to get them into a platinum membership.

ALYSSA: So they’re paying $150 a year instead of $100 to receive additional perks and benefits.

ALYSSA: And one of those platinum benefits was more flexibility, more choices, the ability to extend points, as well as cruise discounts, discounts on partnerships, priority customer service, and customer service concierge.

ALYSSA: So many more benefits, but really that was what I was focused on was getting people from the base membership into this higher level program membership.

PAULA: But even as an upsell, it’s very customer-friendly and very affordable, like I would absolutely, as somebody, if I was lucky enough to own a condominium, $150 definitely feels like a worthwhile investment.

PAULA: So I know you won’t be able to say much about anything commercial, Alyssa, but would you say you were happy, like did customers get it?

PAULA: Did they subscribe in the kind of volumes or percentages that you had hoped for?

ALYSSA: I would say yes.

ALYSSA: So I think the program was considered successful at the time.

ALYSSA: I think the retention rates were fairly strong, and I think I did increase the number of enrollments and upsells into this higher tier during my time there by adding these touch points at relevant places, like you said, where the benefit was actually solving a problem and it could be used in real time, which is so much more powerful than an email that says upgrade to this tier and get these following benefits, but there’s no value in that moment.

ALYSSA: It’s a little bit disconnected.

ALYSSA: So placing it in connected places throughout the experience had a huge increase in upgrades.

PAULA: Yes, wonderful.

PAULA: We talk about personalization so much, Alyssa, in our industry, as you well know.

PAULA: That to me is the perfect example of personalization.

PAULA: Find the pain point, present the solution, because clearly it’s very well understood by the business and match the two together at the time they need it.

PAULA: I love it.

ALYSSA: Yes, it was a great program, a great experience working there.

ALYSSA: I was there for about two years and then I moved over to the hotel side of Wyndham Worldwide.

ALYSSA: Eventually, those companies have split off into separate divisions and become Wyndham Hotels & Resorts.

ALYSSA: That’s where I was for the three years prior to moving to L’Oreal.

ALYSSA: I was hired.

ALYSSA: My first role there was a program management role working on Wyndham Rewards.

ALYSSA: I was brought in again to a new role to support the acquisition of the La Quinta brand at the time and the La Quinta returns program.

ALYSSA: With them I had required La Quinta as a brand.

ALYSSA: The goal was to migrate the La Quinta returns members into Wyndham Rewards successfully.

ALYSSA: They would understand the program, reactivate and be happy with this transition and then go on to be active in the rest of the Wyndham portfolio.

ALYSSA: That was about the first year of my time there.

ALYSSA: Then the rest of my time I spent primarily in more of a program management role, working on the evolution of Wyndham Rewards in which we made several program changes to make the program more rewarding for members and give them more ways to earn and more ways to redeem.

PAULA: Lovely.

PAULA: I guess pre-COVID and post-COVID, you probably had two significantly different types of opportunities to do that.

PAULA: Was it really a tough time, I guess, once the pandemic kicked off?

ALYSSA: Yes, the pandemic dramatically changed the business strategy, as I’m sure was the same for everyone else in the hospitality industry at the time.

ALYSSA: It was so unexpected and unprecedented that it did change the way we thought about the program, thought about the goals of the program and connecting with members.

ALYSSA: So pre-pandemic, we were very focused on optimizing the program and making sure that members were participating and really a huge marker of that was redeeming a reward.

ALYSSA: So we discovered that customers who redeem rewards are more active and they have a higher lifetime value and really getting them to that first reward was a priority.

ALYSSA: And that was done through some program changes, which lowered the number of points needed to redeem for a free night and the number of points you need to add plus cash to get a free night.

ALYSSA: And some more redemption experiences.

ALYSSA: It goes back to my stat.

ALYSSA: We, I think as a business, took a pause and said, what can we do now to show our loyalty to our customers?

ALYSSA: Realizing that this was an incredibly difficult time for members.

ALYSSA: And we looked at the program and said, we can extend status from expiring.

ALYSSA: We can extend points from expiring.

ALYSSA: We can change our cancellation policy.

ALYSSA: We did an incredible initiative, which offered essential workers and health care workers a free gold status upgrade.

ALYSSA: So it really was a challenging time.

ALYSSA: For me, it was really incredible just to see some of these initiatives happen that I had never been able to do before, because they would have, we were focused on really growth and growth and growth of the customers instead of giving back to customers.

ALYSSA: So that it was it was a challenging but also unique time in my career.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Very creative, Alyssa.

PAULA: I love the gold status for essential workers, because again, I think you’re right.

PAULA: Everybody had to catch their breath.

PAULA: I think collectively the world was just in shock for a while.

PAULA: And the obvious first thing then is again, as you said, extending status.

PAULA: So thankfully, I think most brands, particularly, you know, lovely premium hospitality brands like Wyndham, you know, immediately made that available to people and I think have continued to do so from what I’ve seen.

PAULA: But the essential workers piece, I think, is definitely more the emotional connection, I would say, where again, you’re doing something genuinely to try and give back.

PAULA: And I think the pandemic focused all of our minds in terms of, you know, how can we build that emotional loyalty and maybe do something for other people, you know, maybe just not about ourselves anymore.

PAULA: So I’m sure that landed really well.

PAULA: So it sounds like great work.

ALYSSA: It did.

ALYSSA: And there was also another exciting shift, I would say, for my career at that time after the pandemic.

ALYSSA: And that was because as a business, we also became more focused on our owners.

ALYSSA: So Wyndham is a franchise business and we have owners of our hotels and they have goals that they have to achieve for the program.

ALYSSA: So we offered them more flexibility in what was expected of them from a loyalty standpoint in terms of the number of enrollments.

ALYSSA: They had a little more breathing room just to get them what they needed to do.

ALYSSA: And we also developed incentive programs specifically for hotel workers where they would earn Wyndham Rewards points for every guest that they enrolled so that they could start participating in the program, which I think was a business initiative that we had on the roadmap pre-pandemic.

ALYSSA: But it was a really great time to be able to also feel that we were rewarding those at our hotel on the front lines, enrolling guests every day and say that now they can earn Wyndham Rewards points that they can redeem for free nights or gift cards or whatever they would imagine.

ALYSSA: So that was really the first true, it’s B2B type of program that I worked on as well, which really came into high focus after the pandemic.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: And I think that’s so often overlooked, Alyssa, because I think we all, you know, spend a lot of time training staff and frontline to really excite them about our work.

PAULA: But at the end of the day, I think it’s only when you get into the earn-burn mentality that actually it makes sense.

PAULA: I think it has to land.

PAULA: So I love that.

PAULA: I didn’t know you’d done that before.

ALYSSA: I think more and more businesses are looking at their loyalty program, not just from a customer standpoint, but also from an internal organizational or B2B standpoint.

ALYSSA: So I think that we will see more of this as loyalty progresses, which says, how can we use this currency that we’ve developed that we’re giving to our members also to incentivize our employees?

ALYSSA: And then it’s a win-win because your employees become active in your program.

ALYSSA: They understand the program, they become more engaged.

ALYSSA: And usually the points currency is more affordable than other incentives or gifts you may want to offer your staff.

PAULA: Yeah, that’s a genius one, Alyssa, because you’re absolutely right.

PAULA: We all think we want bonuses and staff, that that’s what they want.

PAULA: But actually, first of all, they want to feel like they’re part of something.

PAULA: So I think when you include them as a community within the program, already there’s again the emotional attachment and the engagement, I guess, with them as an important group of people.

PAULA: I think it just would change how I would feel about a company if I was involved in the loyalty program.

PAULA: And I’m sure, you know, again, obviously the earn and burn, everything would have to be worked through quite differently.

PAULA: But I’d say they responded incredibly positively, did they?

ALYSSA: Before I had moved on to this job, the program was doing well, and I would expect that it would continue to grow as travel returns and as more members came back to the hotels.

PAULA: Love it, love it.

PAULA: And the other role, I think you started with AeroPostal, by the way.

PAULA: I’m not sure if you want to touch on that one.

PAULA: I think that was your first loyalty role.

PAULA: But I wanted to ask about Toys R Us, because that is an extraordinary brand and has done incredible work.

PAULA: It’s not in this part of the world.

PAULA: So I’d love just any maybe learnings from either of those two roles that you can share with us.

ALYSSA: Yes, of course.

ALYSSA: Toys R Us was an incredible role.

ALYSSA: The office felt like walking into a toy store.

ALYSSA: Everyone’s desk was decorated.

ALYSSA: It was very much how you would imagine working at a toy store or corporate office, which was fantastic.

ALYSSA: And this role, so interestingly enough, this was also a new role that had been developed as the marketing manager for the loyalty and the credit card for Toys R Us and Babies R Us.

ALYSSA: The goal of the role was to accelerate the program and integrate it throughout brand marketing, as well as the credit card as what we would consider an additional tier or component of the program.

ALYSSA: Okay.

ALYSSA: Also understand if the program was supporting the business in retention and lifetime value and growth.

ALYSSA: So in that role, we did a program change as well.

ALYSSA: So we changed the number of points needed to redeem for a reward.

ALYSSA: I believe it was from 125 to 75.

ALYSSA: After spending $75, you would get $5 back.

ALYSSA: That was based on order size and where we felt most customers would be able to achieve within one to two purchases.

ALYSSA: And then knowing that that $5 reward would then bring them back in again.

ALYSSA: So it was very much focused around this.

ALYSSA: Get $5 back from a marketing standpoint, which was sort of an early Coles Cash model, if you’re familiar with that.

ALYSSA: Although it was a points-based program, it was very much a kind of a spend, $75 to get $5 back.

ALYSSA: Toys R Us also had many partnerships.

ALYSSA: So as part of the loyalty program, members could use their points to earn and redeem for Shutterfly, which is a photo book service for care.com, which is a babysitting and nanny service for magazines, for experiences to go to Legoland or Sesame Street Live.

ALYSSA: So there were wonderful relationships.

ALYSSA: Yes, it was really, really great and relevant.

ALYSSA: The brand that members could have access to by joining the program.

ALYSSA: It was a free program.

ALYSSA: So I really, the partnerships were really exciting for me to work on, as well as the ability to do the research and go through the analytic process of understanding what that correct value proposition was and what that threshold was to get members to achieve that reward and come back and spend it again.

PAULA: And I’ve heard about that Calls model as well, and it is very tangible.

PAULA: I’m not sure.

PAULA: I mean, I’ve never tried to build a business case for it, but I’m sure you’ve done plenty of them.

PAULA: But it sounds like something that it’s almost like a test and learn, you know, measure the upsell, measure the up spend when they do come in with the voucher and all of those metrics to see, you know, how rich can we afford to be, how rich do we want to be, you know, and still make it profitable for the business.

ALYSSA: I think there’s so many different contracts that we’re seeing in loyalty, and I’ve had the privilege of working on a few.

ALYSSA: So I think Spend and Get, that kind of cashback model is definitely one of them.

ALYSSA: Points-based is definitely one of them.

ALYSSA: Subscription is a huge one that we’re seeing.

ALYSSA: So it’s really been a great experience to understand how all those program types work.

ALYSSA: And like you said, there’s no one set strategy for loyalty.

ALYSSA: It really is based on what your customers want, what adds them value, what’s solving their pain points with the brand and what makes them feel that connection and ease of use through the program.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah.

PAULA: Well, my goodness, Alyssa, I can just imagine the excitement, as you said, going into the dream role with such extraordinary brands now and so much work to do.

PAULA: You’re going to be a very busy lady.

PAULA: So I think that’s all I wanted to ask from my side.

PAULA: I love the work that you’re doing.

PAULA: It’s certainly, I think to me, you’re somebody who has loyalty in your blood.

PAULA: It’s a true passion, as you’ve said.

PAULA: So is there anything else you wanted to share with our listeners, Alyssa, before we finish up?

ALYSSA: I’ll say that I think you’re right.

ALYSSA: I think loyalty is in my blood.

ALYSSA: And I think as loyalty marketers, it’s so exciting for me and others I know to see the expansion of programs into new markets and just the increases in technology.

ALYSSA: And I think there have been, we’ve all heard people in our careers that have said, why do we have a loyalty program?

ALYSSA: Will loyalty programs be around forever?

ALYSSA: And I feel so strongly that they make a huge impact when they’re done correctly, when it’s a brand that encompasses the loyalty program throughout the experience, throughout each touch point, through the call center, the app, and really embodies that members are part of the brand and the loyalty program is part of the brand.

ALYSSA: And I just think it’s so important that we all continue to do the great work that we’re doing.

ALYSSA: And it’s paying off.

ALYSSA: I think seeing so many programs pop up in quick service restaurants and et cetera, it’s an exciting time and I just, I’m thrilled to be in this industry and I’m happy to be able to connect with so many of us.

ALYSSA: There’s so much more to come in loyalty for all of us and I’m very excited about it.

ALYSSA: I’m sure your listeners are as well.

PAULA: Oh, totally, totally.

PAULA: And I was just kind of smiling to myself, Alyssa, as you were saying, you know, it pays off because I have a very dear friend in Ireland and we’ve been working together in different projects for about 10 years and she was like, so tell me, does loyalty actually work?

PAULA: Like she asked me this a week ago and I’m like, we’re still asking that question?

PAULA: It’s incredible.

PAULA: You know, if you’re not involved in it, it’s hard to sometimes see from the outside, you know, the actual power of it, but clearly you do.

PAULA: So I’m very, very glad to hear that.

PAULA: So the final question then, Alyssa, and I’m guessing I already know the answer, but if people want to reach out and connect with you, first of all, is that OK?

PAULA: And where would they find you?

ALYSSA: Yes, please do reach out to me.

ALYSSA: I love connecting with anyone in this space, especially if you’re up and coming in this space.

ALYSSA: I would love to kind of help navigate anyone who may be like, is loyalty marketing for me?

ALYSSA: Is loyalty program management for me?

ALYSSA: Because it’s such a unique career.

ALYSSA: And it’s not something that I saw myself going into.

ALYSSA: I majored in economics.

ALYSSA: I had worked in retail stores throughout college and loved kind of customers and behavior, but it’s something that I was lucky enough to find through my first role.

ALYSSA: So I would love to connect with anyone and everyone.

ALYSSA: You can find me on LinkedIn, backslash Alyssa Callahan, loyalty.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: And of course, anybody can reach out to me as well, Alyssa, and I’ll make sure to put them in contact with you.

PAULA: And of course, the show notes as well.

PAULA: We’ll make sure that, you know, we do link directly to your LinkedIn profile.

PAULA: And just for anyone listening, because it is audio, Alyssa is spelled A-L-Y-S-S-A and Callahan, C-A-L-L-A-H-A-N, just to make sure people can find you.

PAULA: So that’s wonderful.

PAULA: So Alyssa, I’m so happy to have you on the program.

PAULA: As I said, definitely feel like you’re a kindred spirit and super excited with the role that you’ve gone into.

PAULA: So just want to say thank you so much from everyone at Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketeer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research.

PAULA: The Wise Marketeer also offers loyalty marketing training through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 170 executives in 20 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: For more information, check out thewisemarketeer.com and loyaltyacademy.org.

PAULA: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday.

PAULA: Or just head to your favorite podcast platform.

PAULA: Find Let’s Talk Loyalty and subscribe.

PAULA: Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews and thanks again for supporting the show.