Hadie Perkas: Connecting the Loyalty Industry Through Vision and Community – see what ’ s next!!! (#672)

PAULA: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

PAULA: Today’s episode is hosted by Carly Neubauer, managing director of Elevate Loyalty, an Australian-based company specializing in loyalty and incentive services.

PAULA: Carly is also the managing director of One Tap Group, a UK-based company providing loyalty payment services.

PAULA: Enjoy.

CARLY: If you’re in the loyalty and incentives industry, you will know this fabulous human, and I’m lucky enough to introduce Hadie Perkas to Let’s Talk Loyalty TV.

CARLY: With a career that started in recruitment, Hadie is the ultimate entrepreneur, founding many businesses and initiatives, notably The Gift Club and The European Loyalty Association.

CARLY: With more exciting launches on the horizon and a huge passion for the loyalty industry, please enjoy this episode with Hadie Perkas.

CARLY: Hi Hadie, and welcome.

CARLY: It is so great to have you on the show, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation.

CARLY: You are very well known across this industry with a range of business ventures and initiatives.

CARLY: And today we’re focusing specifically on the world of loyalty.

CARLY: So very big welcome to you.

HADIE: Hey Carly, so nice to be here.

HADIE: How are you doing?

CARLY: I’m great, I’m great.

CARLY: I love having you here.

CARLY: This is gonna be very cool.

CARLY: So as you know, we have two questions that we ask at the start of every episode.

CARLY: The first one being tell us about your favorite book, business book, non-fiction book, loyalty book.

CARLY: Tell us about yours.

HADIE: Okay.

HADIE: I love this question.

HADIE: But I’m gonna be straightforward and honest.

HADIE: I don’t really have a single go-to non-fiction book.

HADIE: I’m actually more of a fiction book reader, but if I had to pick up a couple that stuck with me, I’d probably say Cold, Ranoff Finds and Atomic Habits.

HADIE: Have you read either of those, Carly?

CARLY: Atomic Habits.

CARLY: I love this.

CARLY: Tell us about this one.

CARLY: This is cool.

HADIE: Yeah.

HADIE: So I guess Atomic Habits is one every loyalty strategist should read, right?

HADIE: It’s a book about behavior and about making small, smart changes that build up over time.

HADIE: And it’s basically what every loyalty program is trying to do, okay?

HADIE: It’s not just useful from a personal perspective and growth this book.

HADIE: But if loyalty practitioners were reading it, it’s a playbook about how brands should be thinking about nudging customer action, that real subtle, repeatable, high impact.

HADIE: And I think that’s what I really like about this book.

HADIE: And it’s weird because I didn’t read it when I was in the industry.

HADIE: I read it previous to that.

HADIE: And it’s just struck me in recent years because I’ve been speaking to a lot of people and people have mentioned it.

HADIE: I’ve gone back to read it and it’s like, oh yeah, this makes complete sense.

HADIE: So yeah, one of my favorite non-fiction books from the loyalty industry that we can mirror is Atomic Habits.

CARLY: Oh, I completely agree.

CARLY: And I think even one of the points you could call is that two-minute rule, that any new habit needs to be under two minutes.

CARLY: And if we’re thinking about loyalty and removing friction, it’s anything we’re bringing in, how can we reduce the time it takes for someone to be doing it more often?

CARLY: Right.

CARLY: So great choice.

HADIE: Thanks.

HADIE: I’m going to impress on people to read it because it really makes sense.

HADIE: Yeah.

CARLY: Good job.

CARLY: Okay.

CARLY: Tell us, favorite loyalty program, please.

HADIE: Yeah, sure.

HADIE: Well, this was a really easy one for me.

HADIE: It’s a UK pizza brand.

HADIE: And I actually genuinely love their pizzas.

HADIE: And it’s easy and it’s, like I say, it’s a UK pizza brand.

HADIE: And every time I go, I get rewarded.

HADIE: Okay.

HADIE: So there’s no complicated steps, Carly.

HADIE: It’s a no faff.

HADIE: No, I don’t have to wait until next month to redeem, which I love because it’s just like, well, I’m going to go and I’m going to get rewarded just for turning up.

CARLY: Which is the best.

HADIE: I want to get rewarded.

HADIE: Exactly.

HADIE: So they call us zillionaires, which I think is quite funny as well.

HADIE: So it’s actually got a bit of fun and it’s got a cool little app.

HADIE: But more importantly, it delivers on the promise of loyalty, which is consistent value.

HADIE: So I don’t want to go, I don’t have to question whether the rewards will come through or if I’m wasting my time, they just show up.

HADIE: And it’s that magic of a real good program, that not many brands, you can’t find that with many brands.

HADIE: And I think too many loyalty schemes, I’m going to say this over and over again, probably in the next 45 minutes, that too many loyalty schemes overcomplicate things.

HADIE: And that’s coming from a consumer, and also because I’m not a practitioner, and I don’t pretend to be, but it’s just what other people are telling me in the industry.

HADIE: We’ll talk about that later as well.

HADIE: But some loyalty schemes make you jump through loads of hoops, or force you to memorize the conversion rates.

HADIE: We don’t do that as consumers, obviously.

HADIE: But ZZ does that really right, and it’s quite frictionless, and it’s immediate, and it adds this layer of joy to a real simple meal out.

HADIE: And that’s something I think a lot of brands miss.

HADIE: Loyalty doesn’t have to be epic or emotional every single time.

HADIE: Sometimes it’s just a bit about clever mechanics that actually feels good to use.

HADIE: And to be honest, that’s rarer than it should be.

HADIE: So the ZZ’s brand and their loyalty scheme, it doesn’t really win awards for innovation, but it wins with me.

HADIE: And I guess that’s the whole point, right?

CARLY: That’s fantastic.

CARLY: And you’re right.

CARLY: Simple.

CARLY: We’re busy people.

CARLY: We need things simple as well as a consumer’s point of view.

CARLY: Plus it’s pizza.

CARLY: That’s fabulous.

HADIE: Yeah, that does tell you what my diet’s like on the weekend, doesn’t it?

HADIE: Oh, pizza’s great.

CARLY: Anyway, let’s move on.

HADIE: Yeah, it is.

CARLY: So tell us, other than loving pizza, why loyalty?

CARLY: How did you find yourself in the world of loyalty?

CARLY: And tell us a bit about your background as well.

HADIE: Yeah.

HADIE: Okay, cool.

HADIE: So I didn’t grow up dreaming of being in loyalty, as I don’t think anybody does.

HADIE: And to be quite frank, I’ve said it before, I’m not a practitioner.

HADIE: Let’s be clear on that.

HADIE: And I don’t build programs or crunch customer data.

HADIE: But what I do do is I build communities.

HADIE: And that’s exactly what loyalty is, when you strip it right back.

HADIE: So if I was stripping my career back and how I got into loyalty, I’ll be very quick about this, because it could go on for half an hour, but I’ll do it in literally two minutes, Carly.

HADIE: I’ll try.

HADIE: So I started in recruitment, which focused on general recruitment, then I moved into gift card and rewards industry.

HADIE: And I launched gift card recruitment in 2015.

HADIE: And that led me to The Gift Club, which is a global hub with connecting professionals and helping them grow, helping professionals and businesses grow through connection and opportunity and content.

HADIE: And from there, it became obvious that loyalty professionals were missing a space to talk openly about benchmarking their programs, about how to win senior leadership buy-in.

HADIE: But the way they wanted to do it was not to go to another vendor led event or don’t want to go to another pitch fest, but they wanted to be part of a real community.

HADIE: And so I co-founded The European Loyalty Association, or the ELA, in October 2023.

HADIE: But I didn’t come into it to teach, I came, I guess, to listen and to give them a space and to reflect back the patterns I see across all the conversations I have all the time of people doing the work every day.

HADIE: And there wasn’t one in Europe, there wasn’t a community like this in Europe, so I created one.

HADIE: I am the co-founder along with my wonderful husband, Costas.

HADIE: But I will say it was my idea.

CARLY: Thank you so much.

CARLY: Take full credit, take full credit.

HADIE: I shall, he’s not here, so he can’t say anything else.

HADIE: So I guess in that way, loyalty found me, really.

HADIE: And it’s been one of the most exciting industries I’ve ever worked in.

HADIE: And I think it’s full of really curious, smart people that are trying to build something better for their customers.

HADIE: And I guess that’s why I’m here, is to bring those conversations to get people to do their jobs better and for customers to stay more loyal.

HADIE: So everybody wins.

HADIE: That’s kind of why I exist.

CARLY: So good.

CARLY: I still remember I was extremely lucky to be your very first big handshake in London in 2022.

CARLY: And I can totally vouch for that.

CARLY: The way you ran the event, the way your approach to running an event was very community focused.

CARLY: There’s no doubt about that.

CARLY: You really excel in that area.

CARLY: And to see it just grow and grow and grow and obviously create the ELA is fantastic, especially coming from a loyalty professional background.

CARLY: We want to see more community in loyalty.

CARLY: This is awesome.

HADIE: Yeah.

HADIE: And thank you for coming all the way from Australia.

HADIE: Yes, come to my first event.

HADIE: I do remember it.

HADIE: It was one of those game changer moments for me when after that very first one, bringing that community together because it was a mix of the gift card rewards and loyalty, and then we’ve separated it in recent years.

HADIE: But I do remember somebody afterwards of two brands building a partnership from that very first event and now they’ve made a six-figure partnership deal with each other in the last two years.

HADIE: Wow.

HADIE: I just sit back and I go, that’s what it’s all about, right?

HADIE: It’s all right.

HADIE: That wouldn’t have happened without our events.

HADIE: We’ve said it before, but our events are very much about community and showing of patience and being open with each other and not selling.

HADIE: We’re not into this sales environment.

HADIE: It’s a let’s talk, let’s find out where the real problems are and what the real challenges are and solve it for each other.

HADIE: That’s what makes it great and that’s what I’m really proud of.

CARLY: As you should be.

CARLY: Thanks, Carly.

CARLY: There’s no doubt you’re doing a lot within the industry as well.

CARLY: What is it that really drives you and makes you love this industry?

CARLY: What are those pieces?

HADIE: Yeah, so what I love most about the loyalty industry, I think it’s a lot to do with its energy.

HADIE: I think it’s always shifting, right?

HADIE: Always experimenting.

HADIE: And I think loyalty people are obsessed with better, better experiences, better data, better relationships.

HADIE: And it’s not a job for most of them.

HADIE: It’s a craft.

HADIE: You know, the real people, the real people who are trying to build this is a craft.

HADIE: And that, that curiosity is quite infectious.

HADIE: And it really rubs off, off on me.

HADIE: And, and you can’t help but be drawn in when you’re surrounded by people who are constantly pushing to improve how brands want to show up for their, for their customers.

HADIE: And I guess what drives me personally is the ability to bring all of those people together.

HADIE: So like I said, I’m not here to teach how to build programs because they already know that anyone who’s in our membership of the ELA, they know that.

HADIE: They’re looking for advice.

HADIE: They’re looking for how to strengthen something.

HADIE: So I’m here to help them connect with others who can spark something new in them.

HADIE: And I think that’s the value I bring.

HADIE: And it’s also what keeps me really excited about the work that I do.

HADIE: And every event, every round table we put together, or every conversation adds something to the ecosystem.

HADIE: And I think it’s a real incredibly, what’s the word, generous industry, Carly.

HADIE: People want to help each other.

HADIE: And if they’re put into a room where they don’t really know each other, but they’re all working towards the same outcome, and you just give them those little snippets of conversation starters, it’s amazing what can happen.

HADIE: People want to help each other.

HADIE: And they share all their insights and they cheer each other on, and they’re not afraid to be vulnerable about the hard stuff, and that’s really rare in business.

HADIE: We’ve had people brand speak on stage in front of other loyalty practitioners, tell us all the shit they had to go through to get leadership buy-in, to nearly lose their jobs, because they needed to convince them what the return on investment was, and to the point of, well, the finance director wasn’t convinced that actually loyalty has a space in the business, so let’s get rid of people that we don’t need because it’s a cost.

HADIE: Actually, somebody put their career on the line to try and prove to them.

HADIE: And actually, she was amazing.

HADIE: And after 18 months, she turned something into a program that has six million members.

HADIE: But what makes this space feel like a community?

HADIE: Someone like that is standing on stage, being quite open and happy to talk about the difficulties they’ve had to go through.

HADIE: And that’s why I’m here, building platforms that help this community grow and allowing people to share those stories.

HADIE: That’s why I love it.

CARLY: I’d share your love, so that’s okay.

CARLY: You did mention as well your insights.

CARLY: And I know you’ve been producing some documents and white papers and things like that.

CARLY: The outcomes of some of the events that you hold.

CARLY: So what I’d love to talk to you about is, we had a bit of a joke about this previously.

CARLY: The good, the bad.

CARLY: I used to say the ugly, you say the confusing.

CARLY: Talk to us about some of the points and some of the things that are coming out, of either your documents, the events that you’re holding.

CARLY: What are you seeing?

CARLY: You’ve said definitely you’re not a practitioner, but you’ve got to have some great observations, no doubt.

HADIE: Yeah, so there’s lots of things I could say about this.

HADIE: So I’m just trying to think about where I can start.

HADIE: Yeah, so I guess when I might go off a bit for tangents, so pull me back in again, Carly, if I’m not answering your question.

HADIE: But I guess when you’re new to the loyalty or reward space within a brand or whether you’re a consultant or whether you’re a tech provider, the temptation is to sound like you’ve got it all figured out.

HADIE: Yeah, it’s to learn all those buzzwords and sort of over explain your ideas or copy what the big name brands are doing.

HADIE: But honestly, the smartest thing that you can do early on is ask better questions, and get curious and be the person who says, why do we do it this way and what’s the customer actually feeling here?

HADIE: And I get all this insight from our members when we go out and do some research with them, when we talk to them.

HADIE: Many of our members create our agendas for our regional hub events around Europe.

HADIE: So all the content that we get is mainly from them.

HADIE: So everything I’m saying is the voice of our members, okay?

HADIE: So loyalty is quite a complicated piece as we know, but it doesn’t have to be.

HADIE: And it sits at the crossroad of tech and psychology and data, marketing and operations.

HADIE: But you can’t master it all at once, you don’t need to.

HADIE: What you need is a network.

HADIE: And I’ve seen young professionals go further and faster just by reaching out to their peers.

HADIE: But a lot of programs are built by committee, which means they play it safe.

HADIE: And if you’re new, you’ve got fresh eyes and they use them.

HADIE: But sometimes the biggest breakthroughs come from the people who haven’t been around long enough to be jaded.

HADIE: So when I was thinking about this question, there’s quite a lot of examples of brands that are doing it well and not doing it so well.

HADIE: And this has come from a lot of our members as well, if you like.

HADIE: So two examples come to mind when I’m thinking about the success of things and what our members say.

HADIE: So Sephora’s Beauty Insider, everybody’s talking about Sephora, right?

HADIE: It’s a brilliant case.

HADIE: Yeah, it’s not just about discounts, it’s about identity.

HADIE: Customers feel part of a club and their tears give structure and the rewards are thought for and the entire thing is wrapped around how customers like to see themselves.

HADIE: And it taps into emotion as much as it does utility.

HADIE: And my other sort of example is Pret and their coffee subscription.

HADIE: I know this probably sounds boring, but these are brands that are global.

HADIE: And there are some European brands that I could talk about as well.

HADIE: But Pret is quite bold, it’s quite habit forming, and it’s all about ease and frequency.

HADIE: But what makes it successful is how it supports both the customer’s lifestyle and Pret’s business model.

HADIE: And it’s clever without being complicated.

HADIE: So it’s a real complication is a massive topic in the members and arena in my life.

HADIE: And there’s a couple of real challenges that I have as a community builder with our members.

HADIE: So one of the biggest ones is helping loyalty professionals prove the commercial value of their work.

HADIE: Because we all know that loyalty matters, we can all feel it, we can see the difference it makes in a customer’s behavior.

HADIE: But when it comes to boardroom conversations, people still struggle to show a clean, confident return on investment.

HADIE: And we’re always talking about this in our membership.

HADIE: Okay, so I’ve been, I don’t know whether you can help with this Carly, but I’ve been actively trying to find someone, a brand or a consultant or anyone who can really, clearly articulate how ROI in loyalty is calculated.

HADIE: In a way that finance teams understand.

HADIE: Because it’s really surprisingly elusive.

HADIE: I mean, that’s one of the biggest, biggest things that all our members are like, where is this?

HADIE: We held a round table at one of our events.

HADIE: We split our group, put one up into groups.

HADIE: And one of the conversation topics was how to prove ROI.

HADIE: Nearly all the 10 people around the table went into this conversation thinking, this is going to be the silver bullet of my life.

HADIE: So, but they all came away still not knowing how to calculate it.

HADIE: It’s a real tricky one.

HADIE: And this is the problem they’re all having.

HADIE: But another challenge is unearthing a brand that’s truly using AI and gamification really well.

HADIE: Yeah, not just experimenting for the sake of headlines, but actually driving measurable increases in engagement and loyalty metrics.

HADIE: And everyone’s talking about it, aren’t they?

HADIE: AI, gamification.

HADIE: But when I ask for proof, or when they’re asking me to find a brand that can prove this, like the actual uplift in retention and lifetime value or engagement, the numbers rarely follow, right?

HADIE: And that tells me that the strategy isn’t there yet or the measurement isn’t.

HADIE: And this is what I’m constantly being asked.

HADIE: And these are the questions that are in our e-book that we launched in January.

HADIE: There’s no answer yet, but it’s a massive question.

HADIE: So I’m really hoping that someone’s going to answer them for me, because it’s stressing me out a lot.

HADIE: I get asked these questions all the time.

HADIE: It’s like, I don’t really know.

HADIE: So I need to find somebody.

HADIE: So whoever’s listening, can they please come and tell me, so I can bring you to our event and you can answer these questions.

HADIE: Does that answer your question, Carly?

HADIE: I don’t even know if it did.

CARLY: That was confusing, right?

CARLY: Or bad?

CARLY: Which one?

HADIE: That’s a good one.

CARLY: Combinations.

HADIE: Combinations.

HADIE: Combinations, bad and confusing.

HADIE: Yes.

HADIE: There are a few European brands shaking things up in both good and not so good ways.

HADIE: Tell us those.

CARLY: What are you saying?

HADIE: Lidl Plus has completely shifted the perception of what a discountor can do with digital loyalty.

HADIE: It’s not very flashy and it’s quite practical, personal and quite widely adopted.

HADIE: Their use of personalized vouchers and app-based engagement has made loyalty feel really accessible.

HADIE: It’s driven quite noticeable behavioral shift in customers across multiple European markets because Lidl is a European business.

HADIE: An Ikea family, you have Ikea in Australia, right?

HADIE: Absolutely.

HADIE: So it’s quite a long-standing program.

HADIE: But what they’ve done more recently is exclusive access to services and in-store experiences, which prove that they understand loyalty isn’t just about price and it’s about value beyond the transaction.

HADIE: But on the other hand, there’s brands out there who are tech-heavy, which I’m not going to really tell you who they are because it’s not fair, but they use tech-heavy solutions like AI and gamification mechanics and over-complicated apps with zero focus on customer relevance.

HADIE: They’re normally airlines and telcos, because they invest in a lot of the shiny stuff, but the customer experience ends up a bit clunky or irrelevant.

HADIE: That’s a game changer in the wrong direction in my view, and it turns loyalty into a bit of frustration.

HADIE: You can have game-changing stuff, but it’s not about tools, it’s about how those tools serve the customer.

HADIE: And it’s why Europe has some strong players, but also some cautionary tales, to put the word on.

CARLY: Cautionary tales, I like that.

CARLY: Also, it probably goes back to your point earlier around simplicity as well.

CARLY: So it’s great to have a lot of cool new gadgets, tech.

CARLY: What else can we bring into our loyalty program that is flashy and trendy and shiny?

CARLY: However, is it taking away from the simplicity to deliver to the consumer and the member as well?

HADIE: Yeah.

HADIE: Well, if you, I’m sure you’re going to ask me this question about what I think loyalty will look like in five years.

CARLY: Of course.

HADIE: Members I speak with are pushing harder for simplicity and customers don’t want that complication anymore.

HADIE: They want programs that are really easy and they’re relevant and worth their time.

HADIE: So I think we’ll move away from those bloated schemes towards more streamlined, mobile first experiences that actually integrate with the way people live.

HADIE: I think emotional loyalty will dominate in five years.

HADIE: Well, we can talk about that later, but brands won’t just reward transactions, they’ll reward all those behaviors and engagement.

HADIE: This is all normal stuff, but simplicity is huge.

HADIE: Keep it simple, for the love of God.

HADIE: I mean, come on, you said it before we were recording, we’re loyalty people, we’re not rocket scientists.

CARLY: I’m not taking away from the people who are really clever in this industry.

HADIE: This is true.

HADIE: But that makes perfect sense.

HADIE: Just keep it simple.

CARLY: Yeah, we’re busy, we need simple.

CARLY: Use the power for good, not evil, and keep this as a simple, fun, engaging program, of course.

CARLY: Okay.

CARLY: What is one of the most important lessons you’ve learned in your career?

CARLY: Tell us about you a bit.

HADIE: Okay.

HADIE: One of the most important lessons.

HADIE: That’s a really interesting one.

HADIE: Okay.

HADIE: So if I had to boil down to the most important lesson I’ve learned, I guess it’s going to be around, you build more trust by being useful than being impressive.

HADIE: I’ve tried to be impressive an awful lot, like for a long, long time in my life.

HADIE: Everybody wants to be impressive.

HADIE: You’ve got to be impressive to get a job.

HADIE: You’ve got to be impressive to win sales.

HADIE: You’ve got to be impressive to win partnerships.

HADIE: But that’s just the first bit.

HADIE: But the trust that you build is far more important.

HADIE: So early on, I thought I needed to prove myself, to show all these credentials and to act like an expert.

HADIE: But over time, I realized that real credibility comes from consistently showing up and solving problems.

HADIE: So for example, during the early days of The Gift Club, I would regularly get messages from professionals looking for connections or advice.

HADIE: And I guess instead of giving them a link or a boring canned reply, I’d personally introduce them to someone in my network.

HADIE: I know we all do this, but people don’t realize the power of helping something when it has no return for you.

HADIE: Because they know that.

HADIE: The person that you’re talking to will know that.

HADIE: And one of those intros, and I think I mentioned it earlier, which led to the six-figure deal between the two brands.

HADIE: That was actually in an event environment, but they were already talking.

HADIE: I’d already introduced them afterwards.

HADIE: So, I guess that’s when it clicked.

HADIE: Usefulness scales in a way self-promotion never can.

HADIE: And I apply the same principle with the ELA.

HADIE: So, we don’t pretend to have all the answers.

HADIE: I’ve just told you that we don’t have all the answers with this earlier.

HADIE: It’s like, ah, stop asking me.

HADIE: But we listen and we ask the right questions, and we create a space for loyalty professionals to speak honestly about what’s working and what isn’t.

HADIE: And that’s what builds trust.

HADIE: Not perfection and not the needs to impress, but presence.

HADIE: And you don’t need to be the loudest voice in the room.

HADIE: That’s a big thing that I’ve learned.

HADIE: You just need to be the one that actually helps.

CARLY: This is good.

CARLY: This is so transferable across just about anything we do, right?

CARLY: This is not just career advice now, I think.

HADIE: Deep advice.

CARLY: That’s very deep, very deep.

CARLY: And I do know that you’ve got some cool and exciting things coming possibly in the next year or so.

CARLY: But there is one that we were going to talk about tonight as well, Jobs Board coming.

HADIE: Yes.

HADIE: So excited.

HADIE: This is good.

CARLY: I mean, this is your expertise.

CARLY: This is your experience.

HADIE: Absolutely.

HADIE: And I’m really, really proud of getting to this point.

HADIE: So as a fact, we’ve got two major things, and this is the first one.

HADIE: So we’re launching something that the industry has desperately needed for a long time, jobsinloyalty.com.

HADIE: So this is the first ever Job Board dedicated solely to the loyalty industry.

HADIE: And it’s not just a page of adverts, it’s a proper curated space to help loyalty professionals find roles where their skills are valued and to help brands attract people who actually understand the mechanics and strategy behind great customer engagement and loyalty.

HADIE: So it’s actually a free initiative, so people can advertise their roles for free.

HADIE: Obviously, candidates can create their own profile for free and apply for free.

HADIE: But it’s going to be a huge step in professionalizing and supporting talent in this space.

HADIE: There’s recruitment companies who focus on loyalty, but there’s not a job board.

HADIE: And this has come from our members again.

HADIE: You know, this has come from our members and the community we’ve built, and the number of times we’ve rubbed shoulders with people who are freelancers looking for extra opportunities or people who just want to move roles, or they’ve become maybe redundant.

HADIE: And where do they go?

HADIE: Where do they go?

HADIE: Where’s the central place for them to say, hey, I’m available, look at all these amazing skills I have?

HADIE: Where?

HADIE: Because someone in, you know, a brand in Spain needs an English speaking or a, I don’t know, a Dutch speaking loyalty professional.

HADIE: How do they find each other?

HADIE: How?

HADIE: Where are they finding, you know, unless they come to one of our events and it’s just by accident.

HADIE: So a central space.

HADIE: I keep, I keep, I keep creating, you know, communities of people.

HADIE: Now it’s a community of people looking for work and businesses looking for skills.

HADIE: So this is going to be absolutely-

CARLY: I’m so excited for you.

CARLY: This is awesome.

HADIE: I know.

HADIE: It’s so exciting.

CARLY: Yes.

HADIE: It’s, it launched today, actually.

HADIE: It’s launching today.

HADIE: So we’re doing lots of promotion over the next couple of weeks.

HADIE: So I’m really excited.

CARLY: Jobs in Loyalty.

CARLY: Tell us the URL again.

HADIE: jobsinloyalty.com.

HADIE: Yep.

CARLY: Awesome.

CARLY: Congratulations.

CARLY: That is super exciting and needed, as you’ve said exactly.

CARLY: You’ve spotted a gap in the market and I think you’re exactly the right person to be sorting this out for us.

HADIE: Oh, thanks Carly.

HADIE: Hope so.

HADIE: Hope this works.

HADIE: Cross fingers.

CARLY: Absolutely.

CARLY: One piece of advice you’d give to someone starting out.

HADIE: Oh, I love this question.

HADIE: So it’s kind of you have to put yourself in the shoes of what would, what could somebody have told me before I started out.

HADIE: Okay, so don’t be afraid to try something different.

HADIE: I think that’s the biggest thing for me.

HADIE: So whether it’s from a personal point of view or from, you know, if we’re talking about loyalty program, somebody starting a loyalty program, it’s the same thing.

HADIE: Okay, I think a lot of loyalty programs are built by, I’ve said it before, committee, which means they play it safe.

HADIE: But, you know, the breakthroughs come from people who haven’t been around long enough to see it at its worst.

HADIE: So even as a professional, so many people have got hidden talents, hidden skills.

HADIE: And, you know, going back to Randall Fiennes in the book Cold, he did some crazy shit, right?

HADIE: The things that the majority of us would go, I’m never doing that in a month or Sundays.

HADIE: I want to be by the fire, keep my toes warm, please.

HADIE: But, you know, he hasn’t made a name for himself and gone on to do some amazing things and has lived an incredible life without trying something different and being different.

HADIE: And a lot of people just don’t feel that they can because of whatever is going on in the industry or how they feel about themselves.

HADIE: But I think that’s the main thing.

HADIE: If somebody said to me earlier on in my career, I started all of these businesses, Carly, when I was 40, which was 38, sorry, which is 12 years ago.

CARLY: Don’t lie, Hadie.

CARLY: Gosh.

HADIE: I know.

HADIE: It’s crazy.

HADIE: Well, I’m 50 next year, so I’m okay.

HADIE: Not quite 50.

HADIE: But I wish somebody said to me, why aren’t you doing all this when I was 25 or 26?

HADIE: Because I would have had a ball.

HADIE: Things would be so different and I wouldn’t be thinking in three years time to retire or semi-retire.

HADIE: I’d have another 10 years.

CARLY: I cannot imagine you retiring, especially in three years.

HADIE: That is a crazy thing to say.

HADIE: I don’t know what I’ll be doing.

CARLY: No, that won’t be happening.

HADIE: But just try to do something different.

HADIE: Just don’t sit there amongst everyone else, amongst the weeds.

HADIE: You won’t be seeing, it’s not going to make a difference to anybody’s life or yours.

CARLY: Life and Loyalty, what do you know for sure?

HADIE: A nap at 3 o’clock in the afternoon is probably the best thing you can ever have when you get to this age.

HADIE: In all honesty.

CARLY: That’s probably honest though as well, that’s not bad.

HADIE: That is quite honest, yeah.

HADIE: Okay, so both life and loyalty, I love this question.

HADIE: I guess everything meaningful comes down to people and values.

HADIE: So life is about sharing and it’s about listening and doing things that we love with the people that we love and we like.

HADIE: And loyalty, loyalty in its truest form is sticking to those values, okay, and is showing up and staying curious and investing in relationships that really matter.

HADIE: And that principle should carry into business.

HADIE: So loyalty programs that are built to chase the money and hoard data all miss the point.

HADIE: And the most effective programs I’ve seen are the ones that feel really human.

HADIE: And they’re run by teams who listen and by brand, they’re run by the senior leadership team who care, who aren’t just trying to win a transaction with their customers, but they’re trying to earn a relationship.

HADIE: And in life, just like in Loyalty, Carly, the long game always wins, right?

HADIE: So show up with honesty, deliver what you promise, and never underestimate that power of a thoughtful gesture, gesture or a meaningful conversation or helping someone else do something that doesn’t reflect anything on you.

HADIE: And the underestimation of that power of thoughtfulness is what I know for sure.

CARLY: I knew I was going to love talking to you, Hadie.

CARLY: This is so great.

CARLY: Biggest thank you.

HADIE: Cool, I love talking to you.

CARLY: Biggest thank you.

CARLY: Very huge thank you.

CARLY: I’ve loved chatting with you and hearing all about your experience, your background, but also what’s coming as well.

CARLY: So big congratulations also on launching Jobs Board.

CARLY: Definitely a niche that we need to fill and a gap definitely there.

CARLY: Can’t wait to see how it works and definitely see you at the next big handshake as well.

HADIE: Oh, thank you so much, Carly.

HADIE: Thank you so much for inviting me.

HADIE: It’s been a real pleasure and actually a real honour to be on here.

HADIE: It’s crazy.

HADIE: Thank you so much.

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