#131: Luxury Shopping Centre Loyalty Launch - Galerija Belgrade (Serbia)

PAULA: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.

PAULA: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.

PAULA: Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: Today’s interview is truly a superb example of global voices of loyalty.

PAULA: It’s my very first shopping center to have on the show, and certainly the very first to have built in loyalty to their overall business strategy even before it opened.

PAULA: Galerija Belgrade is the largest shopping center in Belgrade, the capital of Serbia.

PAULA: And it opened its doors as a luxury shopping fine dining destination in late 2020.

PAULA: Today, I’m delighted to be joined by Vanesa Jovanovic, marketing manager for Galerija Belgrade as well as Chayya Bassi, the chief loyalty consultant for Quick Brown Fox Consulting here in Dubai, who designed this innovative loyalty strategy, which will undoubtedly be a unique selling point for this luxury destination for many years to come.

PAULA: So, Vanesa and Chayya, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

VANESA: Thank you very much for having us, Paula.

PAULA: Wonderful, wonderful.

PAULA: And Chayya, you’re with us as well, here with me in Dubai, yeah?

CHAYYA: I am.

CHAYYA: Thank you, Paula, a really, really great opportunity.

CHAYYA: Thank you very much.

PAULA: Oh, it’s super exciting.

PAULA: I’ve been hearing about this project, actually, for I don’t know how long, maybe about a year, with my previous guest, and I’ve also involved as well.

PAULA: So we’ll come to that part later.

PAULA: But as always, we always start the show talking about our favorite loyalty statistics.

PAULA: So, Vanesa, from your perspective, working there with Belgrade Waterfront, please tell me, what is your favorite loyalty statistic?

VANESA: Well, Paula, I have to say, this would be the top 10 merchants by spend volume.

VANESA: Because being in the first operating year of the shopping center, in which we are, we are still learning about the customer.

VANESA: What are their shopping habits?

VANESA: What is their average expenditure?

VANESA: What is the shopping frequency?

VANESA: The length of visits?

VANESA: So this is all that we are about to learn.

VANESA: And these are all the data that we can extract from our beautiful custom-made design loyalty program.

PAULA: Oh, I can imagine, Vanesa, I’m sure you’re doing reports on a daily basis just because it’s all so exciting, huh?

PAULA: True, true.

PAULA: Wonderful, yes.

PAULA: I think at the beginning, particularly, we geek out on the data.

PAULA: So that’s wonderful.

PAULA: And I will be keen to hear what kind of merchants they are as your top 10.

PAULA: But before that, Chayya, please do tell me what is your favorite loyalty statistic?

CHAYYA: So, Vanessa, I have loads of them, but my absolute favorite is, as you know, as a loyalty consultant, we are often asked to do a lot of feasibility work.

CHAYYA: And I love to draw comparisons between a member behavior versus non-member behavior.

CHAYYA: And I get an absolute kick when I’m able to show how a member behaves more profitably versus a non-member.

CHAYYA: And that’s something that we’re always trying to convince and trying to get out of loyalty program.

CHAYYA: So my favorite bit is when I’m able to go back to the drawing board and go, yes, you know, your non-member behavior adds to your business versus a customer who’s not a part of the program.

CHAYYA: So that has to be my absolute favorite loyalty statistic.

PAULA: And I’d say it makes you very popular around the boardroom table then as well, Chayya.

CHAYYA: Absolutely.

CHAYYA: I kind of get a sense of satisfaction that I proved my point.

PAULA: Yes.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: I think so, Chayya.

PAULA: And again, I know you have a long history.

PAULA: I think we’ve labeled you the queen of loyalty now at this point.

PAULA: But I’ve often said on this show, it really is about the measurability of loyalty.

PAULA: It’s the reason I love it because I couldn’t go and spend big money on marketing campaigns if I couldn’t see what I was getting in return.

PAULA: And so few marketing activities are as measurable as loyalty.

PAULA: So if you’re able to prove that then for the Galerija Belgrade Rewards Program, that’s super exciting.

CHAYYA: Yeah, I agree.

PAULA: Yeah, it’s super good.

PAULA: And I know it’s brand new.

PAULA: So we’ll get into the whole history.

PAULA: And what I was thinking actually, I had to do a bit of research myself.

PAULA: So Vanessa, you’ll have to forgive me.

PAULA: I didn’t even know the population of Serbia.

PAULA: I had to look up Wikipedia and Google Maps.

PAULA: So I’m going to just give a bit of that kind of context for listeners.

PAULA: And then I’d love you to explain the history of the overall shopping center, your involvement, how long you’ve been there and where the whole concept came from.

PAULA: So is that okay if I just talk a bit?

VANESA: Absolutely, absolutely.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: So we all hear about the beautiful parts of Southeast Europe, but Belgrade, I’ve learned, has a population about 1.7 million and Serbia has about 7 million people.

PAULA: Am I right?

VANESA: Yes, you are correct.

VANESA: Yes, actually Belgrade with all the surroundings is going up to 2 million.

VANESA: So it’s quite a big city in the population of Serbia of about 7 million.

PAULA: Wonderful.

VANESA: That’s correct.

PAULA: And it makes me feel more connected to, again, Ireland, as I’ve said to you before, I think is quite a small country.

PAULA: So I quite like to have this global perspective on loyalty that you’re bringing for us today.

PAULA: And the other thing I really learned as well, Vanessa, was how incredibly important the history, the culture and actually how incredibly beautiful I can see Serbia is down located between Greece and Croatia and Hungary.

PAULA: It’s amazing.

VANESA: Yeah, the Balkans is really amazing.

VANESA: If you haven’t been, having said that you’re coming from Ireland, I think that you would love green Serbia.

PAULA: Totally.

VANESA: So it’s just an amazing country.

VANESA: It’s a small country, but being positioned in the Balkans makes it quite exciting.

VANESA: Given the history and the recent history, it’s quite exciting for Serbia because we are only heading up.

PAULA: Of course.

PAULA: Yes, I can feel that actually, absolutely.

PAULA: And certainly between yourself and Chayya, you convinced me on our last call that I will definitely, I’ve already looked at the flights to Belgrade.

PAULA: So that’s definitely gonna.

CHAYYA: And Paula, you have to visit the mall.

CHAYYA: You have to visit the mall.

PAULA: Oh my goodness, top of the list.

PAULA: So we’ll definitely talk.

PAULA: I loved all of the different concepts.

PAULA: And I know it’s already been an award-winning mall even before it opened from a design perspective.

PAULA: That itself was extraordinary.

PAULA: So actually it’s probably a good way, Vanessa, if you would tell us maybe the history of Galerija Belgrade just as a shopping concept.

VANESA: Absolutely.

VANESA: Firstly, Galerija is the largest shopping mall in Serbia, but we are also positioning Galerija as the regional shopping center, not just the local Belgrade or Serbia shopping center.

VANESA: Yeah.

VANESA: Having the gross leaseable area of the 93,000 makes it the largest shopping center in the area.

VANESA: And so the mall starts operating end of October last year, so 2010, so we are into our first operating year.

VANESA: The mall has over 200 shops and a restaurant with unique outdoor riverfront seating, the most amazing modern multiplex cinema with its first IMAX hall in Serbia, makes it quite a competitive advantage.

VANESA: So the location is quite unique.

VANESA: We have Galerija in the heart of the city.

VANESA: And as a part of the mixed use, the number one mixed use development, which is Belgrade Waterfront, so the Galerija Belgrade is the first and only shopping center in the first mixed use development such as Belgrade Waterfront.

VANESA: And has a really an amazing catchment area of millions within 20 to 45 minutes.

VANESA: So me myself, I’m the marketing manager of Galerija Belgrade, having marketing.

PAULA: Okay.

VANESA: And so also seven months with the company, so not quite long, but 30 years, 13 years in the real estate industry.

VANESA: My personal background is political science with special interest in market research.

VANESA: Yes.

VANESA: But being 13 years in the real estate, I had, it’s really a privilege being in this stage with Galerija Belgrade having, I mean, it’s super exciting from all perspectives, but this unique custom-made loyalty program makes the difference.

VANESA: So it’s really something that I really, really deeply feel privileged about.

PAULA: Super exciting.

PAULA: And Chayya, I think you were involved then even before Vanessa from a loyalty perspective.

PAULA: Am I right?

CHAYYA: Yes.

CHAYYA: And I’m very proud to say that it’s one of the few clients who was very, very clear in moving forward that loyalty is going to be heart of the entire value proposition that the mall has to offer.

CHAYYA: So the clarity that Belgrade Waterfront had with regards to a loyalty program was quite unique for me to experience and also quite encouraging because to put loyalty at the heart and say, you know, we’re opening brand new.

CHAYYA: We don’t want to lag on customer data.

CHAYYA: We’ll start with everything on day one.

CHAYYA: It was very, very refreshing.

CHAYYA: So I joined, I was on boarded by Belgrade Waterfront in 2019 to look at the, not just the mall loyalty program.

CHAYYA: Our aspiration is to go Belgrade Waterfront wide, but because mall is such an immanent part of the proposition and it’s also the first business to open in Belgrade Waterfront area.

CHAYYA: So we’ve gone with the mall first approach.

CHAYYA: And I have to say there’s the team, and I think Vanessa, bless her, has undersold herself a little bit.

CHAYYA: She’s not just a marketing manager there.

CHAYYA: She is a lady with shoulders of steel.

CHAYYA: You can, whether it’s about looking at loyalty, whether it’s marketing, whether it’s custom experience, it’s all under her belt.

CHAYYA: So I really, really, and she’s been a real, and you’ve been a real asset to the Galerija Belgrade because when I was on-boarded, we were working with the Belgrade Waterfront Team and of course, opening up a huge mall in time of COVID.

CHAYYA: I mean, and then, you know, being handed over a mall to run with the limited resources that Vanessa has, I think it’s commendable.

CHAYYA: And where we are today is also commendable.

CHAYYA: And I really like because everybody in the team believes in the loyalty program.

CHAYYA: It’s not something that’s come as an afterthought.

CHAYYA: It’s the heart of it.

CHAYYA: And you’ll understand that, Paula.

PAULA: I was just about to say, Chayya, that’s exactly what I hear coming through.

PAULA: And even actually the interview that I did most recently, we talked about how many business plans are written and loyalty is not part of the business plan very often for new businesses.

PAULA: So it’s almost, as you said, often seen as an afterthought after you start maybe getting more competition, but to actually build it in from the outset.

PAULA: And I remember you said to me, Chayya, as well, that actually you even had a pre-launch for the loyalty program, even before there wasn’t a mall to go to.

PAULA: So I’d love you to tell listeners the story about, you know, what have you built, together with Vanessa, obviously, for the whole of Galerija Belgrade?

CHAYYA: So I think the guidelines were really, you know, the briefing was quite simple.

CHAYYA: They wanted to create a value proposition.

CHAYYA: Belgrade does have a very good range of malls already.

CHAYYA: So they wanted to build something that was going to be unique, give them the competitive edge.

CHAYYA: And obviously with Galerija Belgrade having the positioning of a luxury lifestyle, largest mall in Serbia, they needed a value proposition that would complement it.

CHAYYA: So it’s, you know, and the team as well, it’s very, very customer centric.

CHAYYA: So we wanted to put a proposition, and it’s not just a mall where you’re going to come to shop.

CHAYYA: We wanted to create something that’s going to be a full on experience.

CHAYYA: So it’s not just, it’s something, you know, when I’m thinking of a day out, why will I pick this?

CHAYYA: What are the various options available to us?

CHAYYA: So we really wanted that to be at the forefront and also loyalty at the heart of it, because we want to get to know you from day one and really get to know how we can build our relationship, you know, with the customer.

CHAYYA: So that pretty much was the brief to say, I want to know my customers, I want to know my customer of value and I want to build my relationship.

CHAYYA: We’re not just a mall, you know, we are in the business of experience.

CHAYYA: So how are we going to build that?

CHAYYA: And I think we’ve done some really unique work with Galerija Belgrade.

CHAYYA: I’m very proud to say the team is very open-minded.

CHAYYA: So, you know, that really helps a lot, Paula, as you can imagine, when you take an idea to the client.

CHAYYA: Trust me, these guys just absorb it, like, okay, great.

CHAYYA: And they’re raring to go live with it and then measure the success of it.

CHAYYA: So it’s a full cycle that we get to experience, you know.

CHAYYA: So yeah, and the interesting part was that we opened the mall end of October.

CHAYYA: And before we opened the mall, we already had a data of about 40 or 1,000 members.

CHAYYA: So we went with a teaser campaign to market where we did a huge giveaway of points and sort of wanted to have the right footfall in the mall on day one when we opened.

CHAYYA: We wanted to open the mall with loyal members.

CHAYYA: So we did a big acquisition campaign and we said we will announce the winner in the mall on day one of the mall.

CHAYYA: And we called it our millionaire campaign where we gave away, I think about 10 million points to 10 lucky winners.

CHAYYA: And this was…

CHAYYA: Yeah, it was very exciting.

PAULA: Oh, I’m getting all excited now.

PAULA: I want to go shopping.

PAULA: And, Vanessa, I’d love to ask you what kind of response you had with the merchants because you mentioned you’ve already got 200 stores, which is an extraordinary amount.

PAULA: So I’m sure they’re absolutely thrilled, particularly the way that you guys have built this program.

PAULA: And again, from our conversation before, I know it’s coming from the management team and the owners investing in this program in order to support merchants.

PAULA: And ultimately then obviously the end consumer gets to benefit as well.

PAULA: So what kind of response are you getting so far?

VANESA: Exactly.

VANESA: Well, it’s quite a journey, I must say, with the merchants, but having in mind that the program is funded almost entirely by Galeria makes the merchants pretty much excited as well.

VANESA: And the whole education part is quite challenging because we need to educate the merchants, also their staff.

VANESA: The market needs to be educated as well.

VANESA: So it’s a lot of work.

VANESA: And having Chayya and the team, 24 hours available for all kinds of, all kinds of things you cannot imagine is really something.

VANESA: I mean, having the team so devoted to the objective of the program, which is the first year, is acquiring more members, onboarding as much merchants as we can.

VANESA: And we have quite a lot of them in the program as well as redemption partners so far.

VANESA: And this is something to be really proud of.

VANESA: So we have a success rate of onboarding merchants that it’s almost 80%, which is quite high in this stage.

VANESA: Yes, seven, I mean, nine months into the program, it’s quite an achievement.

PAULA: Yeah.

VANESA: But this, we cannot do it alone.

VANESA: This is something to, it’s such an amazing teamwork with Chayya and the team.

VANESA: So it’s really, we have all the parts in right places, I have to say.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And that’s a great point, Vanesa, I’ll just pick them up before you move on.

PAULA: And again, then I think it’d be really nice to understand the value proposition, maybe Chayya, because I know there’s a few pillars, all of which I loved, of course.

PAULA: But I suppose that the really key point, Vanesa, you’ve already touched on it.

PAULA: This has been funded by the mall itself.

VANESA: Yes.

PAULA: Yes.

PAULA: So merchants can opt in essentially at no cost unless they want obviously to add additional value and additional benefits to your customers.

PAULA: Is that the way it’s working?

VANESA: Exactly.

VANESA: Actually, the key part of the program is the customer gets the most of it, as we are giving a weight of 2% back in points of all, actually we are rewarding.

VANESA: So it’s 2% of their total bill, which is Galerija Belgrade is giving back in points.

CHAYYA: And I just want to add, sorry, Vanessa, this is by far one of the most generous loyalty program in the world.

CHAYYA: Totally.

CHAYYA: It’s even more than what retailers tend to give back.

CHAYYA: So again, when we designed the program, the generosity being the first key element in any loyalty program was at the core and thought of from customer perspective.

CHAYYA: So, sorry, Vanessa, just wanted to bring that bit in.

PAULA: Yes, you’re right.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: The global perspective.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Sorry, Vanessa, go on ahead.

PAULA: Yeah.

VANESA: No, no problem.

VANESA: So the points can be redeemed for rewards is e-vouchers for participating retailers, as well as the F&B partners, which is, we are onboarding the F&B now as we speak.

VANESA: So the merchants are quite happy, needs to, basically, we are facing all kinds of challenges, but in general, we have a really, really good response and really amazing results so far on the program.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And I’m going to remind Chayya, is something you said on our last call, which I really loved.

PAULA: And I think this is a really good insight, and Vanessa is obviously enjoying the result of it.

PAULA: But you said to me that you were very clear in the beginning, when the brief came in, that there could not be any financial, operational, or logistic dependencies or impediments for the merchants.

PAULA: Am I quoting you correctly?

CHAYYA: Absolutely.

CHAYYA: I mean, it’s one of the core elements of the loyalty program.

CHAYYA: And having worked with Dubai Mall, I will tell you from my experience, there’s nothing more tiring than relying on a merchant to fund your program to allow you to pass and to grade.

CHAYYA: So again, this is the expertise that we bought.

CHAYYA: I think the direction was very clear.

CHAYYA: We want a complete digitized solution.

CHAYYA: We want our customers and our tenants to be at the heart of it.

CHAYYA: So of course, having the experience, we then came back with a proposition that was very rich and generous to our mall customers and also very lucrative to the tenants.

CHAYYA: So all the funding is done by the mall, but the customers redeemed those points across merchants.

CHAYYA: We now have over 90 merchants participating in the program, I think, and growing on daily basis.

CHAYYA: So merchants really enjoy key opportunities within the program.

CHAYYA: Of course, they come on board as a redemption partner.

CHAYYA: So while Galerija Belgrade is giving away all these yummy points, merchants are milking it by receiving these points.

CHAYYA: And we all know redemption comes with an overspend.

CHAYYA: So there’s a degree of overspend.

CHAYYA: So that is why merchants are loving it.

CHAYYA: Also, the technology we’ve used, Paula, is a very non-invasive.

CHAYYA: So we’ve done no integration with Point of Sale.

CHAYYA: It’s a really simple QR code that sits at the merchant’s point of sale.

CHAYYA: The customer walks in, scans the QR code, merchant gets a little tick to say, the process is done, the payments are in, and you walk out.

CHAYYA: So we’ve really kept the journey very, very seamless, which is again a big sort of a hassle for a merchant.

CHAYYA: They don’t want any hardware.

CHAYYA: They don’t want, in my experience, they don’t want any operational impact.

CHAYYA: Then we’ve also provided a lot of tools for merchants to engage with our customers, whether it’s via a digital scratch and win.

CHAYYA: So every time you walk into the mall, you get a digital scratch and win, which is a gamification element.

CHAYYA: We’ve added into the program.

CHAYYA: So this could be from buying an ice cream, buy one, get one free, to promoting a member-exclusive offer.

CHAYYA: So this, again, merchants find quite exciting and it’s a platform for them to also market themselves any new product.

CHAYYA: And then we also have something, what we’ve put as a tier benefit and I absolutely love, and it’s something nobody’s doing yet.

CHAYYA: It’s called a monthly rewards drop.

CHAYYA: I’m giving away all my secrets here, Paula.

PAULA: I love it.

CHAYYA: It’s what we call a monthly rewards drop.

CHAYYA: So every month as a silver and gold tier member, you will get a small reward in your app, which starts from an experience to any kind of product that may be of interest to you.

CHAYYA: So I know something we’ve done this week, and Vanessa correct me for this month, is a little mini ice cream experience at a fancy new ice cream or a cafe that’s opened up at the mall.

CHAYYA: And that’s gone to all our silver and gold members.

CHAYYA: Now this is a premium cafe.

CHAYYA: So we’ve again targeted just silver and gold members.

VANESA: Yeah, and the conversion is already skyrocketing.

VANESA: So it’s, for sure, this is amazing.

CHAYYA: Yeah, and I heard when we pushed out the coupon on day one itself, about 13 people walked into the restaurant to get their ice cream.

CHAYYA: So can you imagine for the cafe, it drove footfall in.

CHAYYA: For us, it was a surprise and delight for our members.

CHAYYA: So, you know, we’re constantly looking at a value proposition, which is going to make everybody happy.

PAULA: For sure.

PAULA: And that’s the kind of expertise, Chayya, and the ideas exactly that this show is intended to bring out and really showcase and shine a light on, because I think micro rewards are probably undervalued and underutilized.

PAULA: But I’m super happy if you give me a free ice cream.

PAULA: Like, it doesn’t have to be a free flight every time, you know?

CHAYYA: Exactly, I think you have to, you know, we talk about instant gratification, but nowadays the things about constant gratification.

CHAYYA: I want to be gratified, and I want to be gratified every time, so, you know.

CHAYYA: And we have the power of the data, and that’s the power of a loyalty program, because Galerija Belgrade owns these customers.

CHAYYA: And a typical mall environment, mall doesn’t really own a customer, it’s the tenants.

CHAYYA: So I think that’s the smart thing that Galerija Belgrade did from day one, is I want to know my customers, I want to own them.

PAULA: Of course.

CHAYYA: That way I can feed into my merchants as well and show them value add, to sort of say, because you are a part of our mall, we bring you access to X number of customers.

CHAYYA: And we have a very strong marketing platform, which gives you tools to engage with our customers on a daily basis.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And those tenants, they still run their own loyalty programs as well, because again, I know you’ve got lots of global brands and stuff.

PAULA: So did they ever feel that that was a conflict or how did that land with the merchants?

PAULA: I don’t know whether Chayya, you’ve done the merchant stuff or Vanesa, but I’d love to just see, was there any risk of confusion?

PAULA: Because I know the education piece, Vanesa, you’re absolutely right.

PAULA: We all need to keep ourselves educated on our loyalty programs and particularly in a retail environment.

PAULA: But I just love the fact that the customer essentially wins on both fronts.

CHAYYA: But when you look at it from a merchant perspective, yes, you’re absolutely right.

CHAYYA: They have their own loyalty program.

CHAYYA: And generally, when you approach as a mall, when you approach a merchant, the first thought is, okay, so you want me to fund your points?

CHAYYA: And I think that’s where we have a winning formula here.

PAULA: Totally.

PAULA: Yeah.

CHAYYA: The mall loyalty program is actually complementing the tenant loyalty program.

CHAYYA: Customers in a place to have a double whammy.

CHAYYA: So I’ll give you an example.

CHAYYA: Let’s, you know, we look at Galerija Belgrade.

CHAYYA: The retailer has its own loyalty program.

CHAYYA: So I get X percentage from the retailer.

CHAYYA: Because I’m shopping at Galerija Belgrade, I get X percentage from Galerija Belgrade.

CHAYYA: And because I’m shopping on my credit card, my bank also gives me something.

CHAYYA: So as a customer, I’m winning.

PAULA: Yeah, totally.

PAULA: My trip to Belgrade is already paying for itself, Chayya, I think.

CHAYYA: And that’s why we’ve been very, very clear, because, you know, merchants have their own and you don’t want to create a conflict.

CHAYYA: We want to complement what they’re doing.

CHAYYA: We want to be the choice because we are incentivizing you to walk through our door.

CHAYYA: And, you know, we want to create that value proposition where you’ll choose us over anyone else.

PAULA: And is it the first mall to do this, Chayya, in your experience?

PAULA: Because I know you’ve done both global research ahead of, you know, developing the Galerija Belgrade program.

PAULA: I know you looked at all of the best shopping centers in the US and Southeast Asia.

PAULA: And again, as you said, you worked directly for Dubai Mall.

PAULA: Is it the norm or is it, I suppose, a completely new idea for the mall to fund their own program to support their merchants?

CHAYYA: So I think this is, it’s becoming very, very evident because I think malls have tried in the past to rely on the merchants to fund it.

CHAYYA: And I think exactly for the same reasons that the merchant has its own loyalty program and that will always take priority.

CHAYYA: I think malls have had to take a step back and sort of go, hang on a minute, what is my objective?

CHAYYA: What is it that I want to get out of it?

CHAYYA: Because if you’re then relying on the merchant, then again, the customer will still belong to the merchant to quite an extent.

CHAYYA: So you want to own the customer, then you need to, it’s a cost of acquisition.

CHAYYA: You need to be, you know, and having done the feasibility, Paula, I tell you, it’s a real eye-opener, because when you go into a mall and you say, okay, you know, you have to give X percentage back, they’re like, oh my God, I’ve got all these millions of people coming through the door, and I’m gonna have to give them something.

CHAYYA: It would be great to have all the millions on your database, but that’s not exactly how it works.

CHAYYA: And some other unique thing we’ve done with Galerija Belgrade that I’m very proud of and that nobody, I know of, is doing it in this region or globally, unless you’re on a credit card.

CHAYYA: Malls give you points.

CHAYYA: So let’s take an example of Dubai Mall.

CHAYYA: They give you Skywards Miles for shopping.

CHAYYA: But you can’t redeem Skywards Miles back in the mall.

CHAYYA: You can only redeem them in Emirates.

CHAYYA: With Galerija Belgrade, we have kept the points economy within the mall.

CHAYYA: So while the mall is rewarding you, we want our tenants to benefit.

CHAYYA: Yes, it takes a little bit of an effort to bring the merchants on board, but the tenants are going to benefit out of it.

CHAYYA: So this is something that’s quite unique.

CHAYYA: I have not seen this in any mall.

CHAYYA: Whether we look at Mall of Emirates, Cher, whether you look at Simon Malls, I have not seen that feature back in malls.

CHAYYA: It does happen, but maybe through their gift card.

CHAYYA: But that’s not to say that…

CHAYYA: So this is something that we’ve created, which is unique with Galerija Belgrade, where the points get redeemed back into the mall, the spend comes back into the mall.

CHAYYA: So it’s the full benefit of a points economy.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: And as you said, there’s always then the overspend and there’s just another reason to visit.

PAULA: So I love your positioning as creating a destination, reasons to believe.

PAULA: The monthly drop that you also mentioned as well, Chayya, I know I think that’s very clever because again, sometimes we’re all sitting around at the weekend looking for something to do.

PAULA: And a monthly drop suddenly gives me a reason to go back to the amazing Galerija.

PAULA: So I love that.

VANESA: I’m sorry, Paula, talking about the constant gratification that Chayya has mentioned.

VANESA: So we have really, really some cool features in the program such as scratch and win that we mentioned, the monthly drop and the birthday gift as well.

VANESA: So once a year, there is a super complimentary birthday gift for our silver and gold members.

VANESA: So this is something that we deeply feel builds an emotional loyalty, which is the pillar of the program.

PAULA: It’s one of my favorite topics, Vanessa, I’m always giving out.

PAULA: My birthday comes around every year and I’m judging all the loyalty programs I’ve joined.

PAULA: Who has made this worth my while?

VANESA: I’m sure that they’re all competing for your attention.

PAULA: Oh, they just you see, you’re not enough, I will say.

PAULA: Let’s give them a challenge.

PAULA: So what kind of gifts are you are you giving for your birthday?

PAULA: And it’s silver and gold members.

CHAYYA: Yeah, that’s correct.

CHAYYA: That’s correct.

CHAYYA: We try and keep it as much around experience as possible.

CHAYYA: So again, Galerija Belgrade has an amazing range of restaurants.

CHAYYA: The Waterfront Promenade.

CHAYYA: Really, really quality restaurants.

CHAYYA: So we are engaging with our F&B tenants to give us maybe a meal for two on your birthday that we push again through the app into your, you know, everything that we do is digital.

CHAYYA: So everything sits inside your app and the custom experience.

CHAYYA: So we also want to start now because we’re ninth month into the program.

CHAYYA: Start looking at the member behavior before we reward them.

CHAYYA: So, you know, it’s your birthday.

CHAYYA: I want to know what Paola has been doing in the mall and try and give you something that’s relevant or will complement the experience you’re having with us.

PAULA: Absolutely.

CHAYYA: It could range from movie tickets to a dinner, depending on your behavior.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And again, I suppose I would have done a fair bit of gifting in the past again for different programs.

PAULA: And sometimes we liked the opportunity to actually give a choice.

PAULA: So what we would do is we would say, OK, there’s a range of benefits.

PAULA: For example, let’s say it is a lower tier member and it is cinema tickets versus maybe a coffee and a cake.

PAULA: And they might be equally a cost, for example, to the program.

PAULA: We would let the member choose.

PAULA: And I always thought that that was a nice element, but I never had the budgets to give them a meal for two.

CHAYYA: No, we’re relying on our merchants to partner with us.

CHAYYA: And I have to say I’ve met a couple of merchants when I was in Belgrade a couple of weeks ago.

CHAYYA: And they’re all so willing and very, very supportive.

CHAYYA: Very supportive.

PAULA: OK, OK.

PAULA: And so just to summarize the tools then, because again, we’ve talked about a lot of them, and I just wanted to be super clear for listeners.

PAULA: So the games, the scratch and win, that’s every time you go to the mall, they get an opportunity to get them.

PAULA: I think that’s a partner funded offer.

PAULA: Is that right on arrival?

CHAYYA: Correct.

PAULA: And then there’s the points back, which, Vanesa, you mentioned.

PAULA: So 2% back on everything you spend in addition to the loyalty program of that retailer.

PAULA: And then obviously your premium members.

PAULA: And I did look up your tiers as well.

PAULA: So I know your silver members, for example, would spend over, I think it’s about five thousand dollars in a year.

PAULA: And sorry, I might got my numbers wrong.

PAULA: So what’s the average spend?

PAULA: Sorry for your silver and gold, ladies.

PAULA: I got that got that number, I think, wrong.

PAULA: Or do you probably don’t know it in US dollars?

CHAYYA: I know in euros, but I’m not sure if I’m allowed to.

PAULA: Give us if you have it.

PAULA: Just even just even an estimate, Chayya, because, yeah, I just wrote it down wrong here in my notes.

CHAYYA: So let me just tell you this way.

CHAYYA: Average malls in in Belgrade have, sorry, malls in Belgrade have an average spend of 20 euros.

CHAYYA: Let me just tell you that Galerija Belgrade with loyalty program information that we have is five times more.

PAULA: Oh, my goodness.

CHAYYA: My favorite statistic.

PAULA: OK, so the spend is five times higher.

PAULA: So what’s the bronze, silver and gold criteria then in Serbia for Galerija?

CHAYYA: So in Serbian RSD, on top of my mind, I think we need half a million from zero to half a million is bronze.

CHAYYA: OK, half a million.

CHAYYA: Oh, I could be wrong.

CHAYYA: Oh, God, I have to look these up.

CHAYYA: Sorry.

CHAYYA: Don’t worry.

PAULA: That’s totally fine.

PAULA: I’m totally putting you on the spot.

CHAYYA: Vanessa may have them.

CHAYYA: I don’t know.

VANESA: No, no, absolutely.

VANESA: I do.

VANESA: So the amount is from the 25,000 dinars, which is 200 euros, so around 200 dollars to up to a thousand dollars.

PAULA: Nice.

VANESA: Then moving to the silver tier from one thousand dollars to four thousand five hundred dollars.

VANESA: And gold tier from four thousand five hundred dollars to ten thousand dollars, which is the limit, yes.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: And I did see that there are just a couple of categories, which I’m guessing is for legal reasons.

PAULA: But again, just so that we can learn from your expertise.

PAULA: So things like pharmacy and financial exchange.

PAULA: And I think supermarkets are not categories for for earning or in guest burning.

PAULA: But everything else, so all the fashion, all the fine dining you mentioned, everything else within the mall has this opportunity.

CHAYYA: Yes, that’s correct.

CHAYYA: We wanted to keep the essentials out of it, because these are something that people come in for anyways, which is your supermarket, your pharmacy spends.

CHAYYA: So these categorize as your essential spends.

CHAYYA: And we want to in order to to incentivize our customers to be, you know, sort of more focused on spending in other sort of areas, whether it’s apparel, electronics, F&B.

CHAYYA: So we’ve kept the spend.

CHAYYA: Otherwise, the budgets, as you can imagine, you know, can go a bit off.

PAULA: Totally.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah.

PAULA: Well, it’s hard to fund everything.

PAULA: So again, it’s good to see the business side coming through.

PAULA: And again, Chayya, I know from your experience, you know, looking at all the different malls and again, Dubai Mall just to understand, you know, what’s going to work and long term as well, because what we can never do obviously as loyalty professionals is, you know, build a beautiful loyalty program.

PAULA: We can’t ever take it back.

PAULA: So I think, you know, you’re obviously committed to it for the long term.

PAULA: So that makes perfect sense.

CHAYYA: Yes, absolutely.

CHAYYA: I think and again, you know, my favorite quote when I tell my clients that the launch of a loyalty program is the beginning of many changes.

CHAYYA: So, you know, when we are implementing a program, when we’re designing a program, we pretend like this is it, and then this is launched, and then that’s that.

PAULA: You’re right.

CHAYYA: But you know, in my experience, it’s been the beginning of many changes because sitting in a room, we can only assess so much.

CHAYYA: But the customers start to tell us differently.

CHAYYA: So it’s something, it’s like anything else.

CHAYYA: It has to evolve with time, as we learn and we have to progress.

CHAYYA: So, you know, we were in Belgrade two weeks ago, my team and I were in Belgrade two weeks ago, and we sat with the team and we’ve carved out a roadmap for what the next six months, and at least the next year should look like, from what we’re learning.

CHAYYA: And that’s not to say that this is set in stone, but it gives us an idea and direction as to where we’re headed.

PAULA: Yes, exactly.

PAULA: And Vanessa, for you, I mean, again, you know, marketing manager for such an extraordinary property.

PAULA: You’ve got a lot of tools again, and I’m sure challenges trying to manage all of the, above the line, below the line and everything else, but it sounds like the loyalty program is the single most powerful tool that you have available to you.

VANESA: Absolutely, Paula.

VANESA: It’s one of the competitive advantages that we have, that it’s so precious.

VANESA: I mean, the whole pressure on the marketing in the first operating years of the mall is quite high, as you can imagine.

VANESA: What we are facing is how to drive footfall constantly on a daily basis, on a weekly basis and monthly basis, and how to drive spend.

VANESA: So the loyalty actually is the right tool for all of this, for all, absolutely.

VANESA: So design like this and with the amazing support that we have such an international expertise that we are really privileged to have with Chayya and the team, is really making the difference, because we can actually feel it in a short run, not just in a long run that we are about to experience.

PAULA: Of course, yeah, yeah.

PAULA: Now, I always felt as well, you know, like when it’s on TV and everybody’s super excited, you know, and I’m sure Chayya, you’ve seen the same, then everybody’s thrilled about the loyalty program, but then they get distracted with something else, or as you said, Vanesa, there’s a shorter term priority for something else in the marketing team.

PAULA: So to keep that long-term focus, I’m really happy to hear that you’ve got that long-term plan ahead.

CHAYYA: Yeah, and I think one of the things that now, because we’re going to come up to be a year, which will soon tell you our, hopefully we’ll do another interview to tell you what we’re planning for that.

CHAYYA: So I think it’s one of the things that we are constantly looking at is what the data is telling us now.

CHAYYA: So, you know, and again, really, really create, curate personalized experiences for our members and the top members.

CHAYYA: And I’m very proud to say, Paula, that I don’t know if another program that saw redemption of points in its first week.

PAULA: Yes.

CHAYYA: I remember seeing the report and really having a dance in my room.

CHAYYA: Yeah.

CHAYYA: Oh my God.

CHAYYA: We have three old members in the first week.

CHAYYA: And I’m like, wow.

CHAYYA: Oh my God.

CHAYYA: I had to literally go back and check if the transactions were legit.

CHAYYA: Because I couldn’t believe it.

PAULA: Yeah.

CHAYYA: So, you know, some of the real good stuff we’ve seen come out of it.

PAULA: Well, I mean, you know, literally the earning, you know, that speed to redemption piece.

PAULA: I think we talked about it before.

PAULA: There’s very few programs managed to get that, you know, moment of truth so quickly.

PAULA: So Redemption’s in your first week.

PAULA: I can understand why you’re absolutely thrilled with that.

CHAYYA: Yes.

CHAYYA: And I was having a chat with the next colleague yesterday, and we were working on another program, and he mentioned Redemption.

CHAYYA: So I said, no, no, no, let’s put breakage at 40% for next year.

CHAYYA: And he said, really?

CHAYYA: Do you think?

CHAYYA: I don’t think.

CHAYYA: He said, I don’t think it’s going to be that hard.

CHAYYA: He was trying to say to me that Redemption takes time.

CHAYYA: So I explained to him my experience of Galerija Belgrade, and I said, you know, what’s making a difference?

CHAYYA: We’ve got a very high redemption rate at Galerija Belgrade.

CHAYYA: And what’s making a difference is we have the tenants on board.

CHAYYA: The choice you give to the customers, the breadth that they have available to go and use their points, it excites them.

CHAYYA: Unlike a restaurant program where it’s only earn and burn in the same location.

CHAYYA: Today, customers want choice.

CHAYYA: You want to create an all-is-own ecosystem.

CHAYYA: And that’s what we’re looking to achieve with Galerija Belgrade.

CHAYYA: And by having a multitude of tenants on board who are accepting our points, gives our members the chance to go redeem much faster.

PAULA: Yeah, absolutely.

PAULA: And I know you have some fantastic background information that you’ve shared with me.

PAULA: So there might be an opportunity, hopefully, to share maybe a version of that with listeners, if they’re interested, Chayya.

PAULA: So that’s something that we might talk about off air and see if people want to reach out to you.

PAULA: Because I do think that between yourself and Vanesa, there’s some extraordinary learning.

PAULA: So the more that we can share, I think it would be super useful.

CHAYYA: It would be a pleasure.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: So I think that’s all of my questions now, just to get, you know, as you said, the first round to look at Galerija Belgrade.

PAULA: Vanesa, I didn’t know how to pronounce it because, forgive me, I didn’t get as far as checking, but I was going to guess, is it my boygrad?

PAULA: Or how do you pronounce the program name in Serbian?

VANESA: The program name is Moj Belgrade.

PAULA: OK, you say it so beautifully.

PAULA: My goodness.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: So listen, was there anything else that you ladies wanted to share before we wrap up?

CHAYYA: I think from my side, Paula, I think it’s a great opportunity.

CHAYYA: What we’ve created with Galerija Belgrade is so unique.

CHAYYA: And I just want to thank Vanesa for the opportunity and yourself for the opportunity, because I’m very, very passionate about loyalty and truly believe in the success of the programs.

CHAYYA: So, you know, and I’m really pleased that we could have this opportunity to bring out all the good work that the MOL team is doing along with Vanessa.

CHAYYA: And some of the stuff that we’ve done is quite unique to the MOL and really excited to be able to share that with people.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: And if people want to reach you, Chayya, I’ll obviously make sure we have links to Quick Brown Fox Consulting and obviously your LinkedIn profile.

PAULA: But if people want to connect with you, is LinkedIn the best place to find you?

CHAYYA: Sure.

CHAYYA: Yeah, absolutely.

PAULA: OK, so that’s fantastic.

PAULA: And Vanessa, any parting thoughts or comments from your side?

VANESA: I have to tease you just a little bit.

VANESA: We are about to host our very first member event that we are actually really looking forward to in a premium restaurant in Belgrade.

VANESA: So this is something that is going live next week.

VANESA: So we are also very, very passionate about the program because we understand the benefit of it.

VANESA: And so being privileged to work with Chayya, I think we are about to put Galerija where it belongs in the market as a market leader.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: And with its global profile, and I know you guys have a branding agency, I think in London, you have Chayya, obviously based here in Dubai, your technology out of India.

PAULA: And Vanessa, you’re pulling it all together then based out of Belgrade.

PAULA: It’s extraordinary.

VANESA: Yes, it really is.

VANESA: It really is.

VANESA: It’s super interesting.

PAULA: Wow.

PAULA: It’s a truly global loyalty success story.

PAULA: So I’m really, really excited for both of you.

PAULA: As I said, I’ve been hearing little bits along the way.

PAULA: So it’s been a long-held dream of mine to be able to get the inside story.

PAULA: So I’m really inspired, really excited.

PAULA: So on that note, I want to say, Vanesa Jovanovic, Marketing Manager of Galerija Belgrade, and Chayya Bassi, Co-Founder of Quick Brown Fox Consulting and Chief Loyalty Consultant, thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketeer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news insights and research.

PAULA: The Wise Marketeer also offers loyalty marketing training through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 170 executives in 20 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: For more information, check out thewisemarketeer.com and loyaltyacademy.org.

PAULA: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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