#215: Loyalty Insights from Asia - Speak Like a CEO

Today’s episode of “Let’s Talk Loyalty”, features LinkedIn loyalty guru and independent loyalty consultant, Henry Christian.

Henry has many years of experience guiding brands and managing loyalty programmes throughout Asia and talked with us about some of the valuable lessons he has learned over the years.

He shared his insights on the importance of speaking like a CEO, leveraging customer data and how A/B testing can prove valuable instead of making assumptions for members versus nonmembers.

Henry shared strategies for membership retention and acquisition and we also found out a surprising ‘favourite loyalty programme’ that has never been mentioned before!

Henry also shared a very important principle that loyalty is not a program, it is an outcome to expect from your customers.

Show Notes:

1) Henry Christian, Independent Consultant with HC Loyalty Advisory on LinkedIn

2) LinkedIn Loyalty Post – Speak Like a CEO

Audio Transcript

#215: Loyalty Insights from Asia - Speak Like a CEO (42m)

Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m your host, Paula Thomas. And if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.

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00:00:23

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Paula Thomas

00:01:31

Hello, and welcome to episode 215 of Let’s Talk Loyalty. My guest today is a loyalty expert that I met through LinkedIn and who’s consistently thoughtful posts have proven very compelling to me. Henry Christian is now an independent loyalty consultant with more than 13 years experience running coalition programs in Asia, firstly in his home country of Indonesia. And more recently in Singapore, Henry recently posted about the mistakes that we as loyalty managers typically make. He also gave some recommendations on how to think like a CEO.

Paula Thomas

00:02:14

And I thought that that was absolutely brilliant advice for every one of us. When we want our loyalty investments, firstly, to earn the returns we need internally. And of course also the respect and the adoption they deserve externally Henry also gave the most surprising answer so far to my question on what his favorite loyalty program is. So without further ado, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Henry Christian So Henry Christian joining me today from Singapore. Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

Henry Christian

00:02:54

Thank you, Paula. Happy to be here.

Paula Thomas

00:02:56

It’s been a long time Henry. We’ve been chatting on LinkedIn exchanging ideas and yeah, it’s an absolute joy to have you on the show. I’m really, really pleased.

Henry Christian

00:03:05

Absolutely. It’s my joy to be, to be our guest today as well.

Paula Thomas

00:03:11

I would think I would describe you Henry as somebody who’s probably the most prolific contributor and thought leader that I see on LinkedIn. So actually I just want to acknowledge that. So if anybody hasn’t come across your work or already followed you on LinkedIn, I would just definitely encourage them to so well done on that, that I will be asking you about it because I think it’s a, it’s a very interesting personal branding strategy. I wouldn’t know you if it wasn’t for your incredible contributions. So with that all set, let’s get straight into for somebody with your, I think 13 years of senior loyalty expertise, I’m dying to hear, particularly in an Asian context, you’re based there in Singapore.

Paula Thomas

00:03:54

What is your favorite loyalty program? Henry?

Henry Christian

00:03:58

That’s a really tough one, right? And I had to really crack my brain thinking about my favorite. As a lot of practitioners, I really have a high status of what I would deem as the great loyalty program. And, and I’m going to gave an answer that that might be slightly controversial. And, and, and it’s not a lot of the program. So I, it, the pre the questions as in what makes me loyal program or otherwise to something, a brand or a platform. And I’m going to say it’s red for those people who might not know what Reddit is.

Henry Christian

00:04:38

Reddit is a network of communities where you can join a community based on your hobbies, based on your interests, cooking car, fixing music, football, and, and, and you go to that company, then why I say read it because it’s so wonderful. You join a community where, where all the users of that community, the other members of that community share the same problem, the same goals that you have, you joined, you joined that community and, and you try to help people with their questions. If that problem is by entering the polls and interesting points that usually allows the progress, go give a ready, pass these things, what they call karma, which is I love it because, because for every good, good, good questions that you, you, you, you, you, you gave, and when all the members voted, you add more karma.

Henry Christian

00:05:39

The more karma you earn, the higher state, this that you get in that community. And you earn special badges that they give you the privileges. And, and, you know, if you, if you are a top contributor with a lot of badges, obviously whatever you say, whatever, but if that committee carries more weight and that’s the reasons why I left Reddit, and I think the whole concept of community is really a key trend. Many brands are trying to emulate even within their own loyalty program.

Henry Christian

00:06:20

They can actually build a sense of community because in itself it can become a, a super powerful flywheel to drive business to the organization.

Paula Thomas

00:06:34

Totally. And I love that commercial perspective, Henry, because at the end of the day, there’s a lot of mistakes that people make in loyalty. And actually we’re going to talk a lot about them today, but I think, you know, the biggest mistake is not having the commercial mindset of why are we investing in all of this incredible work? And it’s wonderful to wants to, you know, exchange value of course, with your customers exactly. As you have alluded to with Reddit. But I I’m really I’m impressed with the insight Henry because I made a very, you know, I suppose, significance decision. And, you know, when social media became a part of my life, that started to feel overwhelming, which I think we have all experienced.

Paula Thomas

00:07:18

So for me, you know, maybe 15 years ago, I mean, I can’t remember the timing, but at that time, what I decided was I would only engage with one personal social media platform. And I chose Facebook because that’s where my friends and family were. And I chose LinkedIn of course, for my professional life. So I often say I’m the only marketeer in the world. I think that’s not on Instagram, first of all, but it’s amazing that Reddit doesn’t get the visibility or the respect that you’ve just explained Henry. I just think that’s extraordinary.

Henry Christian

00:07:52

Absolutely. And just like new polo in the last 16 months, I’ve Jackie said many of my social media presence. I’m no longer on Facebook. I’m not on Instagram. I’m not even, I’m not even on, I actually just left WhatsApp. I moved to Sally grab where it is just like it was a car, I guess, a processor controversies around that. And I chose, I kept linking just like you and, and, and read it that’s about, and why I chose ready? Why not do we read it because I get to choose the community that I want to be a part of Facebook where you can get rather overwhelming with the algorithm and the newsfeeds.

Henry Christian

00:08:41

And I think a lot of papers within the about it, th th th the whole Genesis about, about Reddit is that the choice is given to the user, right? What you want to be a part of. And, and because there is a upvote downvote functions on Reddit familiar, I, I like, I like Facebook, right? If, if, if a certain responses is clearly controversial and if we see a lot of down volts, right. And you will get heated. And, and, and, and he’s kind of like, I don’t feel that the platform is toxic because I have the power people have the power to put information out there to curate it and to the power of the people.

Henry Christian

00:09:37

Right. You know, the more appropriate news information I display.

Paula Thomas

00:09:45

Yeah, yeah. Up weighted. Yes. And forgive my ignorance Henry. But I do think there’s a lot of us that just are not experienced with reddish. Is it a place where brands can go and build their own community? Or is it purely individuals, consultants, you know, human beings, you know, with the, the, at the essence, is there brand activity, is there anything commercial happening there or not?

Henry Christian

00:10:10

Well, I think that I’ve seen apps being surf around that’s, that’s the decks. Then I, I also know that prolific Redditors who I mentioned, Who actually sold their account. Yeah. Yeah. And then they fuck it. The good handsome sum of money for me, right. At do goat and Sandy to a two to eight dread. Right. Of course they want to appear on the farm as a brand and

Paula Thomas

00:10:45

As being sold, actually.

Henry Christian

00:10:48

No, not that’s ethical, that’s a topic, But, but, but, but that’s the way. And I think for every brand who cares about their customer sentiment, they should spend a lot of time doing social, listening on Reddit, because that’s where, you know, filter discussions happen totally out the sentiment that you can pick up on.

Paula Thomas

00:11:12

Totally. Yeah. But I also think what you’re alluding to Henry is a very big trench, which I think I’m using the term correctly of cancel culture, both opting out jettisoning, and that’s everything like you’ve said, social media platforms, we share that already opting out of loyalty programs that I’m not really impressed with is for sure. And an increasing trend. So I think, and I don’t think it’s a COVID thing. I was just checking with myself if, if it was triggered by that, but I just think we’re all so busy and our priorities are getting clearer maybe as we just get older, more experienced. But I suppose that emphasizes, I guess, the importance of adding value to your customer, your user, or whoever it is that you seek to serve Henry.

Paula Thomas

00:12:02

So thank you for that conversation as a final one on social media, before we move on Henry, a lot of people have said to me that maybe, you know, Let’s Talk Loyalty should be focusing on Twitter. And I would just love, I suppose, especially with the Elon Musk, just this week, in fact, announcing a big stake, he acquired, joined the board. Do you think Twitter is important for loyalty professionals?

Henry Christian

00:12:27

I, from an individual perspective or from a brand perspective

Paula Thomas

00:12:31

Either, or actually I’m interested in both?

Henry Christian

00:12:34

Well, I think, I think I’m on theorize. Well actually just gone through queer desk just a few months ago, but if we do believe it, but, but the reasons why I’m on Twitter, it’s purely purely because people creators on Twitter who are prolific creators have a lot of followers. They have these think copywriting skills and the way that they convey the message is very critical. And it’s something that every law, the market is sending them because do it, there has to be limitations, right.

Henry Christian

00:13:17

Me too. I love it. So how do you deliver a message through your, and In, in, in, in, in, in the most Crips way possible. And I think that’s that, that’s something that I learned and that’s the reason why I’m on Twitter. I want to see that how they actually frame their message clearly to the readers.

Paula Thomas

00:13:41

Yes. And that is a very efficient use of the reader’s time as well. So I think that is the whole purpose and why it has been so successful. The only reason I stopped on Twitter myself was because again, it was overwhelming and, you know, I just didn’t have the time, but I do think I’ll head back there. So listen, Henry, I want to get into, and a bit about what you’ve learned over the years. And for listeners, I will say, I know you’ve worked on a fabulous program in Singapore. You might talk us through these, but just in summary, a coalition program that I believe 90% of households in Singapore and would have, you know, engaged with Singapore, I guess like Ireland, where I’m from is a relatively small country.

Paula Thomas

00:14:27

But before that, obviously you also worked at a program in Indonesia, which I found out today is the fourth biggest country in the world by population. So you have, you know, I suppose, expertise at scale also in Indonesia. And I often think can read that I don’t do enough about loyalty in Asia. So it is a real honor, I suppose, just to kind of get your insights in terms of what you’ve learned and watch again, I suppose what I noticed particularly was a recent post. You did, and it actually does feel universal. So in some ways I also found it very reassuring that, you know, we all talk about Asia and we w we wonder what it’s like.

Paula Thomas

00:15:06

And so, yeah, I think your learnings are universal. So what I want to and maybe get into is, first of all, you positioned this post on LinkedIn, which of course were linked to, or anybody can reach out to me, of course, or hopefully yourself on LinkedIn Henry to make sure that they can get access to the full details of what you promoted, but you wrote a post and you basically said that people are struggling to prove the return on investment of their loyalty program, because we don’t Speak Like the CEO. So I think that’s a wonderful starting point. And what I love is you identified five common mistakes and five recommendations.

Paula Thomas

00:15:47

So I love all of these, particularly because I’ve been the one probably making these mistakes over the years. So maybe when you talk about Henry, what do you think maybe the first, most common mistake that loyalty managers make and what you can suggest? So any of the ones I know we have five, we don’t have to talk through them all today, but just, what do you really find frustrating when you see it happening?

Henry Christian 
00:16:12
Sean, and, and, and of course, you know, I, this is not me preaching from the said, shall not make those mistakes. And these are the real mistakes that I myself had made in the past. Right? I mean, any, any, any this, whatever, we, we will be able to put our hands up yesterday. Yeah. That was me <inaudible> And I thought that it’s good to get the words, all that, so that at firing law, the practitioners can learn from my mistakes. I think before we meet, we go into, into the post, I think number one, mistakes that I’ve S I, that I see law loyalty managers <inaudible> do today is they try to be smart, too smart, instead of trying to be clear. 

Henry Christian

00:17:05

So let me give you an example, crafting buck in crafting marketing messages, law, marketers loves to use jargons nurse to Les to sound smart, right? Yeah. Right. But very often it ends up confusing the members, the customers, and that’s that’s, that’s not good. Right?

Paula Thomas

00:17:27

This is customer communication, specifically Henry. Okay. External. Okay.

Henry Christian

00:17:31

Yeah. Right. It could be that that’s, that’s important. The clarity, it’s the point for them because, you know, we, we love, we, we think that let, let’s let use last week, wasn’t it, the social media was flooded with the meme from the Oscars will Smith gave a, a big slap Chris wall. Right. And every brands jumped on it. The question is, do you need to jump on it? Right. And I think, and I think that’s a lot of the practitioners who, who, who post the key in building relationship with the customer is trying to understand that you don’t always have to be on, we don’t always have to be slot.

Henry Christian

00:18:16

You need to be clear in community, in having communications with the customer. I think that’s

Paula Thomas

00:18:21

Relevant.

Henry Christian

00:18:23

And then of course, coming back to your questions in, in the, the most common mistake that I see a costumer, a lot of the managers do in building, improving their lot, the ROI it’s it’s it’s dish. Right. And I learned it the hot way when, when my boss one day told me that look, Henry, if you want your loyalty program to be taken seriously, then you need to start treating these as your business. It’s not a marketing pool, it’s a program, it’s a business. So you, you prove it that, that, that, that it is a business.

Henry Christian

00:19:07

Right. And, and, and, and I, I think, I think my most favorite, I think the Mo my most favorite part where I like to correct that with a lot of the managers. So they like to say that, well, 80% of, of mine, and you see this, even on the financial reports, right. Where people say that 80% of our sales come from our members, I want that to mean, what does that mean? Right. It just simply means that you have the information of 80% transactions that happen, happens on your brain, right.

Henry Christian

00:19:50

Perspective, who is funding this,

Paula Thomas

00:19:52

Right.

Henry Christian

00:19:54

Why should I do it? And this is controversial. And I I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been on the receiving end of this crisis problems. One very particular tough seat. Oh, that’s that the manager. Right. And she asked me this question, as you say that, look, if, if 80% of your members, well, already shopping with me before your program, why aren’t you? And I give them points now, because it’s just eroding my business and it’s absolutely spot on questions. Right. And I think I can’t be nice or that I say, no, you know, you’re right. And so, so I think instead of just shouting, like, oh, I’ve got, I’ve got 80%, I’ve captured 80% of the transactions are there.

Henry Christian

00:20:37

You’d do a be good. If the loyalty manager can actually show that, is this 80%, do you actually capture your market share? Right. Because I think the end of it, and that you want to be able to call that a, to, to capture more market share. Right? Yes. And, and I think you need to actually prove it. It’s not just about converting your non-members to be members. I think it’s about once they become a member, now that I have the all Dabo, can I market to you more effectively? Which means that will I be able to optimize my marketing dollars because of the policy by Dumont? No. You speak to spend a lot on, out of home or both boast aligned marketing, because I know you, I can put some on messages, like accept the patients and on paper, they should bring down my marketing costs.

Henry Christian

00:21:29

Right. And cost optimization is one number. If I know you and, and, and I can then also like my office, but you better, I believe you should come to me more often, or you should find more with me. And that’s why I capture more, more if y’all shop Walden. Right. Yeah. And so it’s not just about the absolute numbers that I capture X percent of the sales, but you need to think from a business perspective, will you actually grow the business? Right. And I think that’s what every CEO wants to know. What’s the funding for

Paula Thomas

00:22:07

Yes. Yes. You’re absolutely right. And correlation is not the same as causality. And I think that is the, the ultimate challenge that we all face, just because as we know, the loyalty members are spending more, for example, doesn’t mean they’re spending more because of the loyalty investment. So it’s very hard to prove you use the term in the post of the self-selection bias. And that is exactly it. And I again have made this mistake and I see this mistake where we compare, for example, the members basket size versus the non-members basket size, or the frequency of our members versus the frequency of non-members.

Paula Thomas

00:22:49

Whereas we know, of course, if I’m going to visit regularly to a particular store, of course, I’m going to sign up. So that’s a very difficult thing again, to sit in front of a CEO and say again, I caused those extra visits or that higher basket size. So, so on those two particular points, I guess, Henry, you know, what would you recommend that loyalty managers do? And so that they don’t fall into this situation where they’re claiming something that actually they cannot take responsibility or take the credit for, you know?

Henry Christian

00:23:22

Yeah, absolutely. The easiest way to do an AB testing, right. To observe the customer’s behavior pre-launch and post-launch right. Rather wants to, like I say, once you become a member to actually shop one more time to pick up one more items. Right. Then course the challenge is that, how do I know your pre log? The Behavior, right? Like on February. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That, that, that’s how you do it. There is no easy way to do it right there. Okay,

Paula Thomas

00:23:59

Good. I didn’t miss a memo or anything on the solution.

Henry Christian

00:24:02

No, no, no, no. She’s like, I don’t think that there’s one answer to that. I like to sing that for a fun e-commerce there might be easier to do that because you might not sign up as a, as a member and you check on that again, but sometimes I get to retain your email address. Right.

Paula Thomas

00:24:23

So it’s done identifier for sure.

Henry Christian

00:24:26

To that you use the same email address they use as the, on guests that you sign up for a membership, right? Yeah. Then they can compare pre and post log to behavior. The challenge is insurmountable when it comes to the offline seat. Right. Because I don’t know who, I don’t know. Right. So what I’ve got is to do a cohort analysis. Right. And I learned this from my data. So for example, these might be faithful for people who sign up in April with one member’s behavior April.

Henry Christian

00:25:06

Right. And use that as the benchmark. Right. And then all the deaf people who set up the April, how do they spend in may, in June and July and using the non-members spent in April as my, as, as, as the basis. Right. But I think that’s the best, that’s the best, The best thing you can do, I’ve done. I’ve, I’ve tried, I’ve experimented where I’ve pulled off the onboarding journey. Of course, I, the first time we, we, we actually collected information from, from, from new the site off that list to say that, oh, so, you know, before you become a member, how much do you use to spend with us?

Henry Christian

00:25:51

Of course, all the class information. So you have to think that with a pinch of salt. So these are the two methods that, that, that I’ve done before.

Paula Thomas

00:26:02

Interesting. I like the methods and yeah, there’s at least a pivotal point. There’s something to refer back to. And again, with data analysis, colleagues, your expertise, I know you were an auditor actually in your previous career. Totally funny. And, and I I’m happy for you because I don’t think auditing is nearly as much fun as it’s marketing, But it’s definitely the right kind of left brain training that a CEO can respect. And at least you can acknowledge. And maybe that’s part of the problem, Henry. I do think what we have done in the past is probably, as we said, talk through these, you know, five things that we’re claiming in the business case, and then not able to defend them.

Paula Thomas

00:26:48

So I think at least if you go into the CEO or whoever it is at the C-suite level that you’re reporting into, I acknowledge there’s no perfect methods to measure. At least then you’re being very honest, but explain the methodology, which is the next best thing. So I think that’s probably an important distinction I hadn’t thought about before Henry. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I really like it.

Henry Christian

00:27:11

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and Jonathan Beck, every, every mock with this who come to the scene, you know, th they know how to do Google on now, because for example, right. They know how to do performance marketing, right. To say that, please learn about profit and loss PNL skills as well, because I think it’s an important skill. And, and, and you’re right. One thing that, that I I’ve, I’ve benefited tremendously because of, of, of my accounting background. Right. Because at the end of the day, you walk into a business, the business rods on P and L.

Henry Christian

00:27:55

Right. So it’s a good skill to have.

Paula Thomas

00:27:59

Yes. Yeah. The other one that you alluded to there, Henry was around, you know, new members and being something that’s often claimed. And that, of course doesn’t mean a huge amount. What really matters is sheriff Wallace in your category. So business, you know, new to the business customers. And is that something that you have any suggestions on measuring? Because again, it’s one thing not to have data on our own customers, but often we certainly don’t have, you know, data, you know, customers of our competitors. So what’s the best approach in terms of identifying, you know, people who are new to the business that your loyalty initiative has supported.

Henry Christian

00:28:40

So we will, in my previous job, we work very closely with excellent market researchers and, and, and these actually pawned off our OKR, like we have to defend a monthly share, right? I mean, that’s few OKR OKR, but one of the most important one is to defend monthly shares. Right. Objective key results, KPI. I’m just trying to sound cool about it. I, I saw that you look visibly impressed that I achieved my objective.

Henry Christian

00:29:25

So, yeah. I think to depend on market share is important because number one, they are in the pocket

Paula Thomas

00:29:36

Program. Is this

Henry Christian

00:29:37

Correct? Correct. Yeah.

Paula Thomas

00:29:38

Great. Remind me the name of this one that you were the general manager,

Henry Christian

00:29:42

Correct. The name of the program is Plus program And the name of the company and the link. Yeah.

Paula Thomas

00:29:54

Okay. Fantastic. And that’s a coalition. Yeah,

Henry Christian 
00:29:57
Correct. Because we have a, we went to number one for <inaudible> and obviously we fencing market share is key. Yeah. So, we work with that, as well, make sure that, that, that the element <inaudible> right. We ideally, we want to see our market share goals as well. Right. I think, I think that that’s really important because yes, it’s important to convert mocking customers to be members, but I think it’s also important to bring in new because that’s what, that’s what, that’s what 

Paula Thomas

00:30:42

Of course. And, you know, I sometimes think there’s opportunities with credit card partners to identify that data as well. I know you also worked with American express for example, on a co-brand cards. And I think you were the program manager for them, but do you see this kind of information becoming available in consultation with them with credit card companies at the moment? Or do you think that’s something that we could explore more in the future as an industry?

Henry Christian

00:31:11

Aye. Aye. Aye. Unless you have a cool brand credit caught relationships with a, with, with a financial institutions, with a payment company, you D they con share information at that individual level

Paula Thomas

00:31:28

Market share level.

Henry Christian

00:31:30

Yes. They can do that. But then we have to make a few assumptions that, that, that, how, what is the market share that company has? For example,

Paula Thomas

00:31:42

We need to know all of the credit cards,

Henry Christian

00:31:46

What can you do that? Right. And then, and then of course, you know, you’re making a big assumption that they don’t switch credit cards. Right. And because payment is payment, right? Yes, yes. Do we use them? Do we work with them? Yes. We work with them as well. Maybe got reports and to save that, okay, look, this is three span, but this is your market share. Right. And therefore we were like, okay. Yeah. So we can, we can, we can get more. And that will allow us to set reasonable target through actually grow, I would want to share.

Paula Thomas

00:32:19

Okay. Okay. And then the last one is, as I suppose, the mistake that, again, we’ve all committed is really just to, you know, measure the total members and be quoting, you know, numbers. And I liked your comments that accumulating Deadwood is not serving anybody. So, so what’s the recommendation there in terms of quoting membership.

Henry Christian

00:32:43

Yeah. And I think you’ve been, you’ve been, you’ve been in this, I mean, I, at least you’ve seen a websites. Right. We’ve got X million members. Right. And like go away. Right. And it’s like, it’s not, it’s not, like I said, it’s not, it’s not the size of the membership based. Right. But how active they are. And, and, and even if I want to challenge the, I won’t push the envelope, it’s not just how active they are. How well do you know these customers? Right. Because we have knowing the wall off trying to win more data points of the customers so that hopefully we can, we can serve them better.

Henry Christian

00:33:25

Right. So, so, so, so for us, we actually set the target beyond then just excellent. We also want to know how many, so we set, we have a pyramid. There is like, you know, ideally we should have, let’s say about five data points of the customers right. Beyond the name, age and stop. Right. So we looked up all these data points out. So in foreign slots to be able to set that’s better. Right. So we make that, we make that our OKR KPI to say that that try to grow the number of members that we’ve at least five data points.

Paula Thomas

00:34:09

Okay. Yeah, of course. So, yeah. So I guess it’s the balance of quality as well as quantity then, and not an oversimplified, you know, they’ve engaged the depth of the knowledge and understanding is extremely important. And I’ve used the term before, which I really, like, I learned a few years ago about progressive profiling. And I really liked that because that, to me was a really nice idea as a consumer, is that, you know, somebody wants to progressingly understand me more and more of course, with the commercial intention, but as long as I’m benefiting and obviously happy to share that data, I think it makes an awful lot of sense.

Paula Thomas

00:34:49

So I think it is the balance, as we said, quantity and quality, but also it’s, it’s also reminding me to circle back to your Reddit conversation about, you know, just the real, the quality of the relationship beyond data, like beyond transactional, the emotional quality almost, you know, so to build in the community, I guess, within the loyalty program, in a way that’s of huge value to that community and maybe connecting them to each other as well. Henry, I think there’s a lot of value in making sure that people feel part of something bigger than themselves. And I think that’s something, it sounds like you did very successfully, certainly in Singapore with 90% of household penetration.

Henry Christian

00:35:32

Yeah. I, I love what you mentioned the key with that book, right? Yeah. I see many loyalty programs having multiple tiers. Right. And I know it’s another topic for another day, but it’s one of those things that, that, that, that continues to fascinate fascinate pay. Right. People saying that, you know, oh, if I feel kiss means the higher, the Thea, I’ll just keep extra books and the extra point extra punctures. Right. But that doesn’t work. And, and, and I think one of the best privileges of, of, of a higher tier membership program is the ability for the members to build network with the other fellow members.

Henry Christian

00:36:17

Right. Right. I used to facilitate that you own that relationship. We can happen on your platform. That’s fine. But how do you connect them with, with, with like-minded folks and for the betterment of their lives. Right. They, you know, they’re going to be loyal to you to your platform because you help them connect with people who can help them with their problem.

Paula Thomas

00:36:43

Yes. Yes. You’re absolutely right. It’s building the tribes, understanding exactly what it is that we’re particularly interested in concerned about. I’ve often used the example that, you know, my podcasting knowledge mainly does come from groups on Facebook. Because again, this is the tribe of people who are trying to do the same kind of thing as me. So again, we all kind of listen and learn from each other, but it feels like I need to go and find the podcasters on Reddit.

Henry Christian

00:37:11

Yeah. There you go. I moved to London. I think it’s awesome. They have them, they have that membership program. Yep. So beyond that to very strong with the community building power, the, their store managers, they work with local for the fitness influencers. They build their own tribe. They called it the sweat life. Right. Like we love it. I love, I love looking out. I that’s to be three graduate. So I think that’s like, yes, you know, it’s a good workout. Right. I might need to create that attracts a sit in the bill and every locales have their own community.

Henry Christian 
00:37:55
And that’s, what’s so wonderful. And that’s how, <inaudible> the concept of a community. 

Paula Thomas

00:38:04

Totally, totally. And you’re right. Actually, because for example, I have a wonderful gym where I live. I’m very lucky in my building. And we, you know, we have become friends with other people in the gym, which bizarrely never seemed to happen before. I don’t know whether it’s just coming out of COVID going back to the gym. Just meant everybody wants it to connect a bit more, but like, I’m actually one of the people I met there as a business partner now, like totally unexpected benefits of that community is you find other things in common. So I’ll definitely explore Lulu lemon as well. Henry. So listen, I think that’s all we have time for today. I think we’ve acknowledged there are lots of mistakes that we all make in all of our work probably lives as well.

Paula Thomas

00:38:45

But I love the advice that you gave Henry. And my only final question was, you know, will you come back on the show? I know you’re moving out of consulting into a top secret new role, but I know it’s a very impressive company and you wouldn’t be going there otherwise, but hopefully you’ll come back when you join this new position and share whatever it is you decide to, to launch there.

Henry Christian

00:39:09

Absolutely. Probably like, like, like I told you, when, when you wanted me to be on your podcast, I say that’s one of the best testimony that people acknowledge is, you know, someone acknowledges my work to be a guest on your show and, and, and yeah, I will definitely enough to reset and share more the work that I will be undertaking in the new piece.

Paula Thomas

00:39:33

Yes. Yeah. Very exciting. And if people want to find you on LinkedIn, Henry has it okay for them to connect with you there?

Henry Christian

00:39:39

Sure. Love it. I mean, I love connecting with people. I still not, I’m not, not put off by my constant sharing everything I did love

Paula Thomas

00:39:49

You share wonderfully. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay. Any final comments you wanted to share today before we wrap up?

Henry Christian

00:39:57

No. I mean the, you know, everyone needs to remember that loyalty is not a program that you want to get out of the customer.

Paula Thomas

00:40:07

Yes. I love it. On that note, Henry Christian, thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty.

Henry Christian

00:40:12

Thank you, Paula.

Paula Thomas

00:40:16

This show is brought to you by the Australian Loyalty Association, the leading organization for loyalty, networking and education in Asia Pacific, their international virtual loyalty conference will take place on the 25th, August, 2020 to register now to hear global experts discuss current trends in loyalty marketing, there will be fantastic networking opportunities, questions and answers gamification at great prizes to be one, visit Australianloyaltyassociation.com to find out more.

Paula Thomas

00:41:00

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. If you’d like us to send you the latest shows each week, simply sign up for the Let’s Talk Loyalty newsletter on Let’s Talk Loyalty.com. We’ll send our best episodes straight to your inbox. And don’t forget that you can follow Let’s Talk Loyalty on any of your favorite podcast platforms. And of course we’d love for you to share your feedback and reviews. Thanks again for supporting the show.

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