#118: Secrets to Loyalty Success with Collinson's Priyanka Lakhani

PAULA: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.

PAULA: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from Loyalty Specialists around the world.

PAULA: This episode is brought to you by Collinson.

PAULA: The pandemic has introduced major disruption to our lives and spending habits, and these shifts are having a distinct impact on customers’ loyalty to your brand.

PAULA: As experts in customer engagement and loyalty, Collinson can help you to harness your data for deeper customer understanding, and adapt your customer strategy to successfully navigate uncertainty, so that your loyalty program will continue to drive engagement and deliver new revenue streams.

PAULA: Make every interaction count.

PAULA: Visit collinsongroup.com to learn more.

PAULA: For today’s interview, I was delighted to be joined in studio by Priyanka Lakhani, Director for South Asia and Commercial Director for Middle East and Africa with Collinson.

PAULA: Priyanka and I had met a number of years ago when Collinson’s global loyalty agency was known as ICLP.

PAULA: In 2018, ICLP rebranded to Collinson following the consolidation of the company’s loyalty, travel experiences, insurance and assistance businesses.

PAULA: And today, Collinson has 17 offices operating across 13 countries worldwide.

PAULA: In this discussion, Priyanka shared some incredible insights of loyalty being done extremely well.

PAULA: Some challenges we have running programs in the Middle East, as well as some fantastic suggestions for loyalty managers worldwide on the next big ideas for our industry.

PAULA: Some of these are just beginning to emerge, and others are already being used by brave brands to differentiate themselves and try something new in this pandemic and post-pandemic world.

PAULA: So without further ado, I’d like to welcome Priyanka Lakhani to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: So, Priyanka, please tell me, what is your favorite loyalty statistic?

PRIYANKA: So, it’s funny, right?

PRIYANKA: Because being in the loyalty industry, you always have people asking me two types of questions.

PRIYANKA: One is that, does loyalty work?

PAULA: Okay, brilliant.

PRIYANKA: And the second is about, which is your favorite loyalty program?

PRIYANKA: And which one is the most successful, right?

PRIYANKA: Yeah.

PRIYANKA: So, I think I’ll try and address it in those two ways.

PRIYANKA: I think there’s enough stats out there to tell, you know, loyalty works.

PRIYANKA: If you look at Amazon, you look at Starbucks, you look at Tesco, they all talk about how members spend four times more, three times more, sometimes even nine times more.

PAULA: Right?

PRIYANKA: So, I think there’s enough stat out there to show that loyalty does work when done correctly.

PRIYANKA: But I think one stat that really caught my interest recently was the one in Harvard Business Review that talked about that the loyalty leaders grow revenue two and a half times faster than their counterparts.

PAULA: Oh, lovely.

PRIYANKA: And I think this is quite significant, given that they’re currently the race that’s on in terms of owning the customer experience and that being the ultimate battleground.

PRIYANKA: So, it’s not just about saying that I’ve got loyalty right.

PRIYANKA: Well, but how soon have you got it right, right?

PRIYANKA: So, I think that’s very critical as well.

PRIYANKA: So, to those who are still wondering and thinking about should I do a loyalty program, that would mean why please start to look at.

PRIYANKA: And for those who are talking about which is the best program out there and which is the one that really drives, and what do you think success means?

PRIYANKA: And I think this is where I put on a bit more of a diagnostic mindset, right?

PRIYANKA: And I don’t think there is one program that’s right for all.

PRIYANKA: You’ve got to see it from a point of view.

PRIYANKA: Is the program right for the customer, and then is it right for the business?

PRIYANKA: And that balance is what I define as a successful program.

PRIYANKA: So, I would look at what is the penetration of the program in terms of the brand’s turnover.

PRIYANKA: And the second thing we look at often is what is the breakage of the program.

PRIYANKA: Now, breakage is a key stat that always people think about breakage and they think liability.

PRIYANKA: Oh, but that’s really for my finance guys.

PRIYANKA: Why do I need to look at it, right?

PRIYANKA: But I think it’s critical for a loyalty marketeer to ensure that their breakage is not too high.

PRIYANKA: Because if it is too high, what it reflects is that your program isn’t really being used by your members, right?

PRIYANKA: And that sort of defeats the purpose of the future potential and so on that it can have.

PRIYANKA: So these are the two key ones, I would say, that I look at.

PAULA: Brilliant, brilliant.

PAULA: And I love the perspective you have, Priyanka, and I was looking at your own website, actually.

PAULA: So, you know, incredible, in fact, a billion dollars worth of revenue, 1,400 bank clients, 90 plus airlines, 20 plus hotel groups, and 400 million plus consumers.

PAULA: So, a bit of perspective there.

PAULA: That’s amazing.

PRIYANKA: Yeah.

PRIYANKA: I mean, I consider myself very fortunate that I’ve had the opportunity to spend two decades of my career with Collinson, working with these leading brands in the region, helping them achieve their goals in terms of building their best, most profitable, their relationships with their most profitable customers.

PRIYANKA: Sure.

PRIYANKA: So, I feel very fortunate.

PRIYANKA: And I think what sets Collinson apart is, as you’ve highlighted, it’s not just about designing programs and running programs for our clients, but we ourselves run and operate the world’s largest lounge program called Priority Pass.

PAULA: Okay, sure.

PRIYANKA: And that’s probably the reason you also see that we have direct relationships with our customers as well.

PRIYANKA: So, we’re very well entrenched in the travel sector, and we understand that quite intimately because we are a travel business in that aspect.

PAULA: Yeah.

PRIYANKA: But what really adds value to our customers is that in doing so, we understand our mass affluent and affluent traveler segment really well.

PAULA: Yeah.

PRIYANKA: Which to any brand, whether you look at a retail brand or a financial services or the others, your ultimate most profitable customer is that same customer.

PAULA: Of course.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And I’d love to just pick up on the breakage point, Priyanka, because I do think it’s one of the ones that I think throughout most of my career I really struggled with.

PAULA: And there is the debate where the loyalty people are often driving, you know, the engagement, the redemption, the usage, with the very clear vision of the added value, whereas the finance people are kind of going, well, hang on a second, that’s a very expensive strategy.

PAULA: So what would you say would be, you know, a good breakage?

PAULA: So I know you do lots in airlines, I know you do lots in retail, but like if you were brought in with your diagnostic hat on to assess, let’s say the performance of a programme you’re not looking at, at what point would the alarm bells go off, would you say, you know, just in terms of percentage of usage?

PAULA: Put me on the spot now.

PAULA: And just off the top of your head, you know?

PRIYANKA: I mean, as you’ve rightly said, Paula, I think the breakage stats do vary from industry to industry, right?

PRIYANKA: If you look at retail, and in particular, you look at supermarket retail, you would expect the breakage to be super low.

PRIYANKA: And the reason I would say that is because it’s an everyday need product.

PRIYANKA: And there’s no reason for your members to earn points and miles or rewards and not be able to use them, right?

PRIYANKA: So if you’re not in the north of 60, 70, 80 plus, then there is definitely something wrong with the program.

PRIYANKA: But when you look at more travel-based programs, those are slightly different.

PRIYANKA: Because travel, while I may have accumulated my points or my miles during my flights and everything, there may not be a need for an imminent travel.

PRIYANKA: Or there may not be an availability.

PRIYANKA: There’s a limitation in terms of inventory and the others as well, which drives some of the things.

PRIYANKA: So the targets there, we probably don’t look at in as aggressive a way as you would look at some of the mass retail industries or financial services even, and for that matter, right?

PRIYANKA: And that’s where we’re seeing a big segue, because all programs are beginning to realize that if my members are not using, one of the most reasons why they join the program, that that’s a challenge.

PRIYANKA: That means my ability to be able to influence, my ability to be able to drive the two and a half times faster revenue, my ability to test and learn and do all of those other things that successful loyalty programs bring with them will be fairly limited.

PRIYANKA: So a growing trend that we’re seeing is a lot of brands embracing of redemptions outside of their ecosystem.

PRIYANKA: So you do see in a lot of the airline programs, for example, and I’ll quote Etihad Guest more as the one that we have recently onboarded onto our redemption platforms, where you can redeem your Etihad Guest miles for a number of different merchandise.

PRIYANKA: And I think that in a recent interview that Kim had as well with you, she talked about how they had onboarded.

PRIYANKA: Redemptions is being one of the key tactics they used to drive engagement during the pandemic.

PRIYANKA: So it’s been a real asset to these programs where they have leveraged it to drive obviously a lower breakage.

PRIYANKA: They’ve used it to drive engagement during the down period, but they have also ensured that they’re using it to drive more emotional loyalty.

PAULA: And you know what that really reminds me of Priyanka, and it’s a point I make a lot of the time on the show, but it is around the integrity of the program.

PAULA: So, you know, for Eddie had guessed to say, okay, you might not be able to travel for who knows how long or want to.

PAULA: But here’s another way that we can add value because you’ve earned it.

PAULA: So let’s give it back.

PAULA: So to me, there is a huge discrepancy, probably historically, hopefully, everybody is kind of catching up as you’ve said, but this whole idea of we want these people to be loyal to us, but, you know, at what point do we realize we have to be loyal back to them?

PAULA: So that’s a beautiful example.

PRIYANKA: Yeah, exactly.

PRIYANKA: And, you know, when you look at some of these redemption opportunities, and if you really look at those initiatives, to try and drive it as a real asset to your program.

PRIYANKA: So as an example, you know, I mean, in one of our stores, you had the Sony PlayStation that was launched, right?

PRIYANKA: And it was available only on e-commerce site.

PRIYANKA: It wasn’t even available in store yet.

PRIYANKA: And we made it available on some of our redemption platforms, which meant those brands were able to go to their customers and really created a happy message about, you know, here’s your chance to use your points to get you something that others don’t have or can’t get until they actually use this thing.

PRIYANKA: So I think it’s how you leverage these assets to try and drive all of those other objectives that you have out of your loyalty program.

PAULA: You know what’s very clever about that strategy, Priyanka, as well, because, and I don’t know, you know, how it all works operationally, but I can imagine if I was the PlayStation brand owner, what would I want?

PAULA: Yes, of course, to get into stores where people are waiting for it, but what about the media and the marketing value of having a beautiful brand like Etty had, telling everybody how, you know, exclusive you can get that product in the store.

PAULA: So I love that kind of benefit for the brand and for the product as well.

PRIYANKA: Absolutely.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah, wow.

PRIYANKA: Yeah, and it allows you to take them, you know, so if you look at a banking and a finance program, right, I mean, very few of us really get excited about a bank.

PAULA: I’m afraid so.

PRIYANKA: Yeah, it’s a very functional need that it fulfills in everything.

PRIYANKA: So I think, particularly in financial services programs, leveraging this kind of a brand value that helps you create the aspirational aspect, which you wouldn’t be able to create just by using your brand, right?

PRIYANKA: So I think that those are, you know, they are great assets to tap into.

PAULA: Lovely, lovely, yeah.

PAULA: And you mentioned emotional loyalty, Priyanka, and again, that’s something that comes up on the show a lot of the time.

PAULA: Are you hearing a lot of brands ready for that, as you said, aspirational or emotional aspect and moving beyond the functional stuff we’ve been doing in the past?

PRIYANKA: Yeah, I think most brands are getting to that point where, you know, it’s been a long debated topic.

PRIYANKA: So I don’t think it’s a new one.

PRIYANKA: And if you go back to really, really back when loyalty existed, but in a very different way where you went to your grocer because you knew the person and, you know, he knew you.

PRIYANKA: And when you were shopping there, he would talk about, you know, how’s the family and how’s your kids and how your things and stuff, right?

PRIYANKA: That got replaced with this mass farm of loyalty.

PRIYANKA: Yes.

PRIYANKA: So it is, you know, and brands have tried to obviously tackle it through personalization, through, you know, almost to the segment of one, two, or hyper-personalization, should I say, and everything.

PRIYANKA: But there’s still that portion in terms of the humanization of it all, right?

PRIYANKA: And how do you combine and bring that element into it?

PRIYANKA: And I think that’s critical to that emotional loyalty.

PRIYANKA: And as we all know, the next set of consumers who are coming into the fray, right now, the millennials and the Gen Z and the others, are more about the experience and more about that emotion that you strike than just the functional relationship you have.

PRIYANKA: Absolutely.

PRIYANKA: So my view on emotional loyalty is there are some brands that I’ve seen that who often think emotional loyalty means associating with the cause, and that’s where it starts and stops.

PRIYANKA: Or they think emotional loyalty is that, selecting a select few customers and doing something personal for them.

PRIYANKA: Whereas I believe emotional loyalty is a little bit more than that.

PRIYANKA: It is really bringing it in your day to day and into every way that you speak about the program.

PRIYANKA: So something very functional, very basic, can be made emotional if you really apply it in the right way.

PRIYANKA: An example I’d like to quote is a bank, a leading brand here in the Middle East.

PRIYANKA: And I remember my relationship manager calling me up a few weeks before my birthday and proactively telling me about that you’ve got X number of miles sitting into your account.

PRIYANKA: And we’ve got fantastic ways in which you can use it.

PRIYANKA: You can use for shopping at Harvey Nichols, you can use it for redemption for these restaurant vouchers.

PRIYANKA: So if there’s anything that you feel that we can do to help you out and everything, I’ll be able to organize that for you, or for you to just log on to our website and be able to claim your redemption.

PRIYANKA: So I think just the timing, the relevance of it and everything, I think that creates, it’s a very simple incentive initiative that most programs have.

PRIYANKA: But it’s just how you’ve utilized it to recognize that, okay, these are the brands she shops at, because you can see my financial data, knowing that I have so many points and you can actually make a good redemption out of it.

PRIYANKA: So, I think it’s just that personalization, that humanization of it as well, that you could do is really brings that emotional loyalty to its surface.

PAULA: And so many people, Priyanka, say they talk about relevance, and very rarely do I hear such a clear example of somebody.

PAULA: And we know obviously it’s not possible to call every single customer.

PAULA: So great that you have that relationship manager.

PAULA: But to go the extra mile, and I think creating awareness of your entitlement is also something I’ve not heard before.

PAULA: And it reminded me, I just made a note here, it happened in my local supermarket.

PAULA: So it’s not a big brand here in the Middle East.

PAULA: But again, I’m quoting my husband’s loyalty number all of the time, wondering what will we ever get anything.

PAULA: And again, too busy to ever go and do the homework and check myself.

PAULA: But then a couple of months ago, somebody at the till said, by the way, are you aware you’re entitled to a reward?

PAULA: So this is how you go about doing it.

PAULA: So I think a lot of loyalty programs miss that handholding step.

PAULA: So you know that, and I’m sure somebody’s mapped it out in a framework, but clearly, you’ve experienced it, and I’m sure you’re telling all of your clients.

PAULA: But that first redemption is the real moment of truth that you kind of have to bring through.

PRIYANKA: Yeah, absolutely.

PRIYANKA: I mean, even for brands like, for example, when we talk about Visa or MasterCard, right?

PRIYANKA: They don’t have the direct relationship with the consumers.

PRIYANKA: And I think hopefully they have this opportunity.

PRIYANKA: So I’ll quote another example, which was, I was at Harvey Nichols and debating between two pairs of shoes, which one to take, which one wouldn’t.

PRIYANKA: The sales lady was obviously wasn’t quite helpful.

PRIYANKA: She was like, oh, the both look fantastic.

PRIYANKA: Take the both, you know?

PRIYANKA: And I was getting to the point, I’m like, I really do like them more than I do want to take them both.

PRIYANKA: But I had set my mind that, okay, my budget is for one, so I’m going to take one.

PRIYANKA: I went to the cashier and I was about, you know, filing my bill, and I was using my Visa card, so when I swiped it and everything, they said, you know, you have X number of rewards available, if you should you want to redeem.

PRIYANKA: And lo and behold, the second issue was sold, you know?

PRIYANKA: But it’s really bringing it to the forefront where, at the time and at the moment of the experience as well.

PRIYANKA: So I think it’s awareness.

PRIYANKA: Yes.

PRIYANKA: It’s awareness of what your entitlements are, and then it’s how do you make that and how easily do you make them available as well, right?

PAULA: Sure, yeah.

PRIYANKA: Another area that I do think that often brands miss is that they leave a lot of this communication to the very end.

PRIYANKA: So your miles of points are almost about to expire.

PRIYANKA: And then two weeks before that, you get a communication saying, by the way, if you don’t use it up in two weeks, they’re gone.

PRIYANKA: Oh my God, it’s horrifying because it creates so much of stress, you know?

PRIYANKA: Because all of a sudden you feel like you’ve done all this hard work, and all of a sudden you’re thinking caps are on and you’re thinking, okay, how am I going to use this, and where do I use it, and what’s the best value?

PRIYANKA: And I just feel it’s such a negative experience.

PRIYANKA: You’re totally right.

PRIYANKA: So I think that there are lots of opportunities in the simple aspects of the program, even before you do the bigger initiatives to really drive value and be relevant and really connect with your consumers.

PAULA: Totally.

PAULA: And also what I love what you just talked about there is that person at the point of sale was clearly very well trained.

PAULA: So, and I’ve often said on the show, I really resist loyalty programs if they’re badly executed.

PAULA: So I might see them and professionally be interested in joining, but unless somebody in a store can articulate why I should join, I kind of feel like they don’t deserve my loyalty.

PAULA: I’m like, that loyalty manager who built this program obviously haven’t trained them very well.

PAULA: So I love the visa example.

PAULA: That’s amazing.

PRIYANKA: Thank you.

PAULA: Great, cool.

PAULA: And because we are both in the Middle East, and again, you’ve already mentioned two decades with the Collinson Group under its various brand names.

PAULA: What would you say the Middle East does well?

PAULA: And again, you’ve got lots of airline clients, you’ve got lots of retail clients.

PAULA: I’d love just to showcase, because lots of my listeners are actually in the United States, so they wouldn’t know how loyalty works in this part of the world.

PAULA: So I’d love to give you a perspective.

PAULA: You’ve worked with so many of the programs here.

PRIYANKA: So Middle East has been quite different compared to some of the other markets.

PRIYANKA: And I say that because in many markets, you’ll see normally a prevalent coalition currency, right?

PRIYANKA: So you will see, for example, if you go to UK, you have Nectar, you go to Canada, you’ve got Airmilds.

PRIYANKA: So you’ve got different variations of these coalition programs.

PRIYANKA: But while there are some softer, lighter versions of those such programs in this particular region, if you look at the programs here, each one of them is quite sizable.

PRIYANKA: And it’s usually run and operated by a very large business holding in a group, right?

PRIYANKA: So they are into multiple industries and into multiple verticals.

PRIYANKA: So you would take one program that is actually a retail program as well, but it also needs to be an FNB program.

PRIYANKA: It also needs to be an entertainment program.

PRIYANKA: It also needs to be a shopping mall program, right?

PRIYANKA: So you’ve got that unique aspect to loyalty in this part of the world that probably isn’t as big in the other parts.

PRIYANKA: And I think in some ways, it’s allowed clients and brands to really leapfrog into that bringing that really high-value proposition to the consumer, where they can paint a very good story to say that you earn at these places, you can redeem at these places, and you can do all of these things, right?

PRIYANKA: But I think the opportunity still exists in terms of that while you’ve got intrinsically a coalition style, which is the benefits of having multiple sectors into it, and the insights and the data that tell you what your customers are doing with you, I think there’s a real opportunity for these brands to really look at how do I get a far better and a more rounded view of my customers beyond just what they do with me, right?

PRIYANKA: And that’s a unique problem to them because in other markets and regions, if there was a brand who wanted to do that, okay, I’m a retailer, I’ll go and, you know, And join hands with, partner with somebody who is not conflicting to my thing, right?

PRIYANKA: So it was easier, and then I would get a more rounded view and stuff.

PRIYANKA: Here, I think there’s real challenge, because who do I go to who is non-conflicting?

PAULA: Totally.

PRIYANKA: And I think this is where linking things to your financial services, or having card link to rewards is probably a good way to tackle that particular problem.

PRIYANKA: Where, yes, you have behaviors in this thing, but getting your customers to give them the opportunity to link their membership with a credit card or your co-brand card, so that you can actually see everything else beyond as well that they do with that thing.

PRIYANKA: It’s probably a nice way for these brands to learn deeper.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah.

PRIYANKA: And I think contrary to several years ago, where collecting data and understanding data and how do we mine data was a challenge.

PRIYANKA: Today, we’ve moved, we’ve taken big leapfrogged into that stage where data is now easily available.

PRIYANKA: We have technology that’s easily available.

PRIYANKA: And a recent McKinsey study was just showing that 75% of the consumers have changed their behaviors in the past year due to the pandemic, but it has allowed brands to really understand them quite quickly because they were either geared up or already gearing up towards that transformation.

PRIYANKA: So given all of these things, you’ve already got the tools there, which means that making, using not just your data, but the beyond your industry data is really the critical aspect in terms of the next battle and the next asset that you need to create and build.

PAULA: We haired it here first, huh?

PAULA: No, it’s absolutely true.

PAULA: And I did one research study last week in terms of an interview, and I’m doing a very big one also today, in fact recording, and the whole concept around share of wallet, exactly what you’re talking about, Priyanka.

PAULA: That’s exactly what I think loyalty programs around the world need to understand.

PAULA: And just again, for listeners who mightn’t be familiar with the groups here, I’m trying to think, I think there’s at least what, three or four big kind of programs, as you said, that are within a holding company, that offer the breadth and depth of potential.

PAULA: But I do also think there’s still a bit of a brand challenge for them, whereas they might lead with, you know, some incredible retail brands, but actually the loyalty brand hasn’t been communicated to the extent perhaps.

PAULA: So I do think that that’s an opportunity as well.

PRIYANKA: Yeah, indeed.

PRIYANKA: I think the loyalty brand is, you know, for a lot of these companies, they’re different independent brands, whether it’s retail, whether it’s automotive, and the others obviously do their job in terms of what they’ve been doing for a number of years.

PRIYANKA: The loyalty program is the only thing that has brought all of it together, and the ability for the group to be able to position, to say, this is everything that I offer to you, right?

PRIYANKA: And we’ve seen some successful initiatives that people have taken.

PRIYANKA: So I think the fact that they have, many of them have chosen to give their loyalty programs a different brand to their group brand has really helped, you know, because it allows it to give it an identity and allows it to disassociate with one particular brand within the group.

PRIYANKA: But I think in terms of really leveraging it and doing the last while in terms of the communications, in terms of the prominence, in terms of paid the ownership, in terms of the marketing of that brand, and everything it encompasses has been fairly limited.

PRIYANKA: So I think there’s certainly a big opportunity there for brands to really, really leverage their programs to create that fantastic story that they have to say to their consumers.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah.

PAULA: And you reminded me as well, and it’s just something I feel, I suppose, very passionate about having discovered the power of podcasting.

PAULA: I really believe that a big opportunity for all programs is not even just the brand piece of the loyalty program, but the style of communication.

PAULA: Like, I again had a show on here recently, and it’s a beauty brand, and they have a podcast in Australia.

PAULA: And I was blown away by that.

PAULA: I was like, that’s a very innovative way for a loyalty program, or even for the brand, actually, it’s not just within the loyalty program.

PAULA: So I think you’re absolutely right.

PAULA: The brands here, they’ve created that cohesive piece, and now there’s a big opportunity to explain it.

PRIYANKA: To really market it, to really take it to the United, to explain what it means, what are the benefits.

PRIYANKA: And to, and in some ways also to bring that relevance, right?

PRIYANKA: So to the topic that we were discussing earlier, with a lot of these programs, they’ve become a lot more about mass communication.

PRIYANKA: So you’re hearing about everything and anything, that level of personalization still hasn’t come to the point where, you know me intimately, you’re talking to me on a one-to-one level.

PRIYANKA: And I think that’s a real opportunity with them to be truly intrinsic to everything that gets communicated to the group.

PRIYANKA: I think they still work in silos.

PRIYANKA: So you will receive a communication from one of the partner brands, which will have no association to anything to do with the loyalty program.

PRIYANKA: And so I think keeping loyalty at the center of the organization, at the center of all your decision making, and the center of all your customer relationship is quite critical if you really want to see it as a full asset.

PRIYANKA: And I do think people understate loyalty sometimes.

PRIYANKA: You know what I mean?

PAULA: Every time.

PRIYANKA: If you look at airline programs in the US the assets that they have created with their frequent flyer programs, to the extent where 80% of the points in the miles that are earned in the program are funded by partners.

PRIYANKA: To the extent where these programs are far more profitable sometimes than the actual airline itself.

PRIYANKA: We’ve seen it in the case of Qantas, right?

PRIYANKA: And we’ve seen the recent use of where people have used those assets truly to take out mortgages and stuff, right?

PRIYANKA: So in terms of fully evaluating it and seeing what it is the true book value of those programs.

PRIYANKA: And that’s the potential you have.

PRIYANKA: And that’s the reason if I think the other industries have got a lot to learn from FFPs, that if you do not make it in the front and the center of your business, that’s the opportunity you’re losing.

PRIYANKA: It’s not just that one single relationship.

PRIYANKA: It’s the two assets that your business has.

PRIYANKA: You’re not leveraging that completely.

PAULA: Well, I can see how your clients must love hearing this, Priyanka, because I think as loyalty professionals, we all feel it.

PAULA: We’re perhaps frustrated and maybe don’t articulate it sufficiently powerfully as you’ve just done.

PAULA: And it’s the first time I’ve heard that incredible statistic of 80% in the US, for example, of an FFP might come from partner points.

PAULA: And if we can explain that again, in this region or anywhere we’re doing business as loyalty professionals, that just shows we’re probably just tip of the iceberg at the moment.

PRIYANKA: Exactly.

PAULA: Yeah.

PRIYANKA: You know, I mean, another thing in issue that is again, what looking into is that something we did with Emirates.

PRIYANKA: So in the last year, obviously with the pandemic again, as most airlines are, you know, Emirates had the challenge in terms of people are not flying and customers are not flying.

PRIYANKA: And if they’re not flying, they’re not earning.

PRIYANKA: And if they’re not earning miles, then obviously it puts a lot of things at risk for a brand, right?

PRIYANKA: It’s their future revenue potential.

PRIYANKA: Besides the customer engagement as well during that period, right?

PRIYANKA: So why would the co-brands pay what they pay to the airlines if the customers are not flying and they’re not engaging?

PRIYANKA: So you really have a need to protect both from a business and commercial reason point of view, but also from your customer’s point of view.

PRIYANKA: So with that in mind, you know, they launched, we helped them launch an earn wall with almost 50 brands on boarded onto it twice.

PRIYANKA: So yes, you’re not flying, but that doesn’t mean we’re not living, right?

PRIYANKA: So let’s make it, you know, let’s earn skyward miles for all your shopping that you do, whether it’s in H&M, there’s got Bloomingdale’s, and we’ve got stores in the UK, the US, and now more recently in the UAE, we’ve onboarded about another 50 brands onto it.

PRIYANKA: So I think that’s an excellent opportunity again for brands to really look at ways in which they can drive and further this engagement, because all of this goes to add up to the value of your program, to the consumer, and to the values.

PAULA: And in that example, Priyanka and the Emirates Mall, is that for offline retail, for example, in H&M or online?

PAULA: Is it an affiliate model or is it the offline?

PRIYANKA: So the model we’ve onboarded for them right now is the affiliate model because it allows us to get these brands onboarded quite quickly, and it gives full flexibility to the members to go and shop for whatever they like.

PRIYANKA: It’s not restricted to certain merchandise or anything, so you just go online and you shop.

PRIYANKA: And I think given again the recent pandemic, you can already see that online behaviors have improved significantly.

PRIYANKA: I mean, it has done for the e-commerce industry what it couldn’t do for 10 years.

PRIYANKA: That’s really what…

PAULA: Overnight success, 10 years and an overnight success.

PRIYANKA: Exactly, and I don’t think these learned behaviors are going to change.

PRIYANKA: Most of these behaviors are gonna stick on.

PRIYANKA: We’ve changed fundamentally in the way we order groceries.

PRIYANKA: It’s changed fundamentally in the way we shop, right?

PRIYANKA: So I think that’s going to stay on.

PRIYANKA: So I think it’s a step in the right direction with less operational challenges than you would have to do if you are talking about in-store partnership and custom partnerships for each and every one of them.

PAULA: Because I’ve done that, and that is extremely time-consuming.

PRIYANKA: 50 brands without the affiliate model onboarding, that would probably be a good 10 years to get them live up and running with everything working, right?

PRIYANKA: But in this model, it’s allowed them to do this in a matter of three months.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Oh my goodness.

PAULA: Okay.

PAULA: Well, I’ll definitely go and check that one out.

PAULA: And my other favorite one that Emirates have done as well, Priyanka, because I was just reviewing the show I did with Emirates with Dr.

PAULA: Najeeb last year.

PAULA: And I really love how the Skywards currency is fully integrated in the core booking engine.

PAULA: So as long as I identify myself and log in, I can either do the cash plus miles, which again, I’m sure all the US carriers have probably had for a very long time.

PAULA: But I think it’s the first time I’ve actually been able to see immediate value to make a part payment.

PAULA: And that journey is just incredible.

PRIYANKA: And it speaks highly of exactly why, that you’re coming back to a whole point around breakage, right?

PAULA: Yeah.

PRIYANKA: Why is it, if you look at leading brands, if you look at leading programs, they are interested in redemption.

PRIYANKA: They’re interested in the moment of truth, because they have realized the value that it generates when you do that.

PRIYANKA: And having this fully incorporated addresses a number of challenges, right?

PRIYANKA: One is about awareness.

PRIYANKA: So even if customers weren’t aware that they could do all of these other redemptions, but if you are in your booking path, and you are booking a ticket, and it asks you the question there at the right time, right?

PAULA: Yes.

PRIYANKA: So it brings that awareness as well.

PRIYANKA: And then obviously, the redemption, that is the desired behavior that we need.

PRIYANKA: And making it as available and as accessible, because it is the hard-earned currency, that members are working very hard to work towards.

PRIYANKA: Dividing a bit from the currency side of it, I think one of the other things that is quite important as well, and gets questioned a lot, is the role the benefits play, that our members in the programs, is everybody a points junkie, and is everybody in this program for that?

PRIYANKA: Should we do points, or should we do benefits, and which one is more important than the other?

PRIYANKA: It’s again a key thing, and I think again, some programs have done that really well.

PRIYANKA: As we were talking about the Minelians, and the experience economy that is coming about, right?

PRIYANKA: It is all about the experience I have at the brand.

PRIYANKA: So while points, rewards, incentives are very important, it is equally important in terms of what relevance are you giving to them in terms of benefits.

PRIYANKA: So I’ve had conversations with, say, airlines in some instances, where they’ve said, on this particular sector, we have a lot of passengers who are really interested in the excess baggage, and that being a key benefit.

PAULA: Of course.

PRIYANKA: But at the same time, it’s benefits like upgrades, being the most desired.

PRIYANKA: I’ve had friends in social environments and everything.

PRIYANKA: They’ve talked about, it always starts about, I’ve got so many miles and this is what I’m going to do, and I got my free flight, tickets and everything.

PRIYANKA: And when you speak to them about, okay, what got you to really change your behavior?

PRIYANKA: What got you to really do something different that you may not have driven and it was not need based?

PRIYANKA: And one of my friends was an investment banker.

PRIYANKA: He said, I actually take flights from Dubai to Delhi just so that I have enough status miles so that I can keep my platinum tier.

PRIYANKA: So he’s like, well, it’s the benefits that obviously the platinum tier gives you, but it’s the fact that if I book a business class ticket, and if there’s a seat available in first, they will actually upgrade me to first.

PRIYANKA: And that to me is a fantastic experience, right?

PRIYANKA: So it’s all these little things that you can do in a program to really drive that behavior.

PRIYANKA: And really the point I guess I’m driving home is that it’s not about one or the other.

PRIYANKA: It is about how do you use your different assets in the right combinations to create that relevance, right?

PRIYANKA: So how do you use your third-party redemptions in a way that you create that loyalty?

PRIYANKA: How do you use your benefits in a way where some are obviously structured and announced and as part of the packaging stuff, but equally some are as at the time of need, rather than all packaged up, you know?

PRIYANKA: And it’s really working your program in that sense.

PRIYANKA: Another key trend that I see coming up is also the concept of subscription programs because I think it leads really well to about the benefits.

PRIYANKA: Is the increased desire for people to pay a premium to get that added benefit.

PRIYANKA: And I think there are very few programs that have really tapped on both the commercial potential, but also your ability to strike the real right chord with your consumers, right?

PRIYANKA: And so with subscription programs, I mean, in some instances, we’ve seen that they have the potential to generate almost second highest revenue just next to your co-brands.

PRIYANKA: That’s the potential that they have.

PRIYANKA: And I think many have not fully tapped it yet.

PRIYANKA: I think Amazon is a great example of it.

PRIYANKA: Amazon Prime has done fantastically well in terms of tapping that subscription model, and many are following suit now.

PRIYANKA: But I think the legacy programs have still not quite gotten there yet.

PRIYANKA: So that’s again another trend.

PRIYANKA: I think they should be really looking at.

PAULA: Yeah, you’re absolutely right.

PAULA: That’s probably one of the ones I’m most passionate about, because I’m doing a lot of writing about programs.

PAULA: And my favorite example I had was Panera Bread, which is a cafe chain in the US with like two and a half thousand stores.

PAULA: And they have 800,000 people subscribing to Unlimited Coffee for $9 a month.

PAULA: And certainly for me as well, even last week, I was speaking at a loyalty event, I think, as you know, and I said, look, exactly the same point.

PAULA: Subscription is the next big thing.

PAULA: And a lot of eyebrows went up in the room.

PAULA: But for me, it’s absolutely on brand for a pandemic.

PAULA: For uncertainty, it’s actually when customers really feel, I just want to know that I’ve got that decision made, whether it’s washing my car or whatever.

PAULA: But then, and I know the airlines are absolutely going the same way, but I really think it’s, as you said, a huge big opportunity for everybody.

PRIYANKA: Yeah, and I think that if you take subscription programs to the next level as well, they bring that element of excitement where you can see a lot of the subscription programs are about that you will get a goodie bag, but what will be in the goodie bag is not known, right?

PRIYANKA: And it is the excitement of not knowing, that surprise, that people are also willing to commit to.

PRIYANKA: So it’s using the elements of that as well to try and drive that whole picture.

PRIYANKA: I think one of the areas that we were talking to a few brands about was how we leverage Collinson assets.

PRIYANKA: So Collinson has got a lounge network, and how we’ve used our lounge network as one of the key benefits, along with some of the new products that we’ve launched called ID Sentry or ID Protection.

PRIYANKA: So what ID Protection is, is basically it monitors your identity in the dark web.

PRIYANKA: And I think any program that has got significant customer data should be looking at this.

PRIYANKA: Because your benefits are not just experience-related benefits that what you do with the airline, but it’s about ensuring and telling your customers as well that your data is super protected.

PRIYANKA: We even heard about how many programs who have been attacked.

PRIYANKA: Marriott, for example, was a big one.

PRIYANKA: And once those programs attacked, all that data gets sold into the dark web.

PRIYANKA: So what the ID Sentry product does is it monitors your data on the dark web.

PRIYANKA: And if that is found into the dark web, then it notifies you.

PRIYANKA: So we work with a number of aggregators who are the strongest in terms of dark web monitoring, and we put it together into a singular platform.

PRIYANKA: So again, it’s one of the very highly desired benefit for a brand to be able to go to the consumers and say that you are sharing so much with me, you are telling me so much about yourself, not just what you do with me, but also beyond.

PRIYANKA: And I’m giving you confidence that your data is well taken care of.

PRIYANKA: Not only will it not be misused, but I’m also giving you tools and privileges that can help you track how your identity is exposed, if at all.

PRIYANKA: While I do everything on my end, we do know that people do leave things exposed and everything is on your phone and so on.

PRIYANKA: So some of the leading brands are talking to us about how we can bring the Collinson assets around ID protection, around Lounge, and create some subscription models for them, where they bring into the table a few of their benefits.

PRIYANKA: And bringing some of the surprise elements that we talked about, bringing some of the most desired, that when I am platinum or when I’m gold, one of the most desired is that the rate at which I earn miles double up, right?

PRIYANKA: So it’s how do we create a combination of this to create those really powerful packages, subscription packages that people really want to subscribe to.

PAULA: And are you hearing interest from all sectors, all verticals like retail as well as the travel and hospitality that you’re so well established in?

PRIYANKA: Definitely with the travel and hospitality because they have been the leading edge in terms of loyalty programs, right?

PRIYANKA: So they have been able to really think four steps ahead in terms of how to be relevant.

PRIYANKA: And it is a sector that has been more challenged in that sense.

PRIYANKA: The retail brands are sort of in your face on an everyday basis.

PRIYANKA: Most of them are in some shape or form, but travel struggles in that sense that they have to create that everyday purpose for you.

PRIYANKA: So they have really used their partnerships to drive those things.

PRIYANKA: So they are more interested in how can we take it to the next level and bring more value to our consumers on an everyday basis as well, both on the day of travel, before travel, and outside of travel, after travel as well.

PRIYANKA: So how do we conquer that complete experience for them?

PRIYANKA: And that’s where I think these subscription programs can be quite useful, but I do see equally a value in retail as well, to be able to offer those kind of benefits to your most valuable customers, as we were talking about, that your most valuable customers are probably the most frequent travelers as well.

PRIYANKA: So a number of these benefits are equally relevant to them too.

PAULA: Absolutely, my goodness.

PAULA: Yeah, no, that’s definitely a huge topic and super exciting.

PAULA: And again, as a consumer, I want those solutions, you know, and they just haven’t come through in the vast majority of cases as yet.

PAULA: So plenty more.

PAULA: And just on the dark web stuff as well, Priyanka, do you think loyalty managers in general are aware?

PAULA: Because I wasn’t, if I’m honest.

PAULA: So the last loyalty conference I got to was pre-COVID, and one of the speakers was exactly talking about this.

PAULA: And I probably wasn’t even aware of the concept of the dark web, you know, an internet that normal consumers are probably not even aware exists.

PAULA: So are you finding loyalty managers are aware that this kind of trading of data happens at such scale?

PRIYANKA: So I think GDPR and the rules around GDPR has made a lot of data, data security, data ownership become the center topics for a number of loyalty managers, loyalty directors, or people, just marketeers, or generally anybody who deals with data, right?

PRIYANKA: It’s become into the forefront.

PRIYANKA: But the intent and the extent of it, people don’t realize, right?

PRIYANKA: So they see it from a point of view, yes, we need to do permission marketing, the data belongs to the consumer, at the end of the day, we have to do what we can.

PRIYANKA: People spend a lot, even the leading banks here, you talk to them and they send you emails about phishing attacks and so on.

PRIYANKA: And they’re creating all of these awareness, which is great.

PRIYANKA: But at the end of the day, if my daughter wants a pair of jeans from this new brand, which has just come in, or a thrift store on Instagram that has popped up, and she wants you to use my credit card, there’s only so much the bank can do in terms of controlling how they store the data and how they manage the data, right?

PRIYANKA: So I think it’s really taking it to that next step forward, saying that I understand there’s so much I can do in my environment.

PRIYANKA: I understand that I can create awareness within yourself, but at the same time, we’re going to have these impulsive spins.

PRIYANKA: So how do we take it to that next step and ensure we give you something that helps us monitor into that dark web, right?

PRIYANKA: So I think it’s really understanding that full, it’s not just saying, oh, I got the consent, and the customer is happy to talk to me, and my ID has got it in the right servers, so everything is fixed, right?

PRIYANKA: It’s really not fixed.

PAULA: No, no, and it’ll never, and if anything, I think it’ll become even more important.

PAULA: So we’ve seen it recently.

PAULA: The Irish Health Service, for example, was just hacked recently.

PAULA: Not loyalty, but this data is an unbelievable issue.

PAULA: So, yeah, that’s definitely something to keep there.

PAULA: So looking forward, I suppose, then, we’ve talked about so many ideas, which I love.

PAULA: I love the redemption store that you talked about, for example, for merchandise.

PAULA: I love the idea of subscription, and I suppose the whole partnership piece of, you know, really finding more ways for people to earn and redeem, I guess, you know, rather than just within our own ecosystem.

PAULA: What other things do you think we should be talking about?

PAULA: Or just bringing to people’s attention that might be big ideas that they can think about for the future?

PRIYANKA: I think when loyalty marketeers are thinking about their strategies and their programs, they need to think about symbiotic relationships as well.

PRIYANKA: Today, if you look at many brands, you know, industries and verticals are converging.

PRIYANKA: Where Uber, which used to be a taxi-hailing service, is now a payments company as well.

PRIYANKA: Or, you know, Careem Pay with their payments element to it.

PRIYANKA: You’ve got FinTechs who are coming in and who are then becoming.

PRIYANKA: You’ve got super apps who are coming in where the app becomes a channel for you to do everything, for your shopping, your payments, your telcos and the other.

PRIYANKA: So the industries are really, really being disrupted.

PRIYANKA: And I think it is the time for loyalty marketeers and for brands generally to be far more courageous in their thinking and to be far more brave and not resist or be hesitant in forming those symbiotic partnerships.

PRIYANKA: And sometimes even with competing brands, for the right good.

PRIYANKA: So I do think there are opportunities like that.

PRIYANKA: And unfortunately, I can’t remember an example, but at some point, maybe in the future podcast and everything, I’ll be sure to bring those to the table.

PRIYANKA: But I think that’s where the opportunities exist.

PRIYANKA: And my piece of advice to every loyalty marketeer would be is, be courageous, be out there, try out new things.

PRIYANKA: You’ve got an engaged base of members which will allow you to learn soon and everything.

PRIYANKA: So try new things, and if you have to fail, fail fast.

PRIYANKA: That’s really the message I would take to them.

PAULA: And it’s a lovely word, actually, Priyanka, and I don’t often hear loyalty professionals talking about being courageous and being brave.

PAULA: So thank you for that.

PAULA: I think it’s a lovely intention.

PAULA: And just to summarize the other point you made earlier as well, because I think for our whole community, it’s important that we see ourselves and position ourselves as front and center.

PAULA: So this is exactly what you preach all of the time.

PAULA: So there’s lots of different ways to impact customers, but if it’s coming, as you said, in a disjointed way, you’re missing half the benefit.

PAULA: So I think that that mindset of positioning yourself is really, really amazing.

PRIYANKA: Yeah.

PRIYANKA: And as we were discussing with the Enrich example, or today if you see with the Fab example, with Fab we have just on-boarded their online store, and we’ve just relaunched the entire program as well.

PRIYANKA: And what we’ve seen is just in a matter of three to six months, they’ve had as many engagements as they would normally have in a year with their program, right?

PRIYANKA: And the people who have engaged and who have redeemed, or who have really interacted with the program has really spent higher than the other, just members.

PRIYANKA: So it’s not just about members and it’s also about that whole thing.

PRIYANKA: And the reason they have been able to do this is because FAB has struck the right chord in terms of making loyalty as the center of it all.

PRIYANKA: If you see their loyalty program, it’s fully integrated into their channels, right?

PRIYANKA: So you will log on to FAB online and you will see that.

PRIYANKA: And straight away, you can see your points balance, you can see what you can do with your points.

PRIYANKA: And it’s not just limited to just your card full portfolio, if you’re opening up an account, if you’re taking out a loan, so it’s really across the entire bank services.

PRIYANKA: And it is being utilized also to promote any of those positive behaviors, which is using the mobile app, using more of the online channels, trying to drive all the important business objectives, not just the card objectives of the bank.

PRIYANKA: So I think this is really what I mean when you make loyalty at the center of your customer strategy, where it becomes integral to everything and it’s fully integrated in that sense.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And I’m sure you’ll do a case study on that as well, Priyanka, at some point.

PAULA: But for listeners who are, again, maybe not in the region, so FAB is First Abu Dhabi Bank.

PAULA: It is the biggest bank, I believe, here in the United Arab Emirates.

PAULA: And just for my own kind of anecdotal research, I know they did have lots of loyalty strategies, again, in different brands and, as you said, different parts of the business.

PAULA: But coming together under one dominant bank brand and taking that, as you said, holistic perspective of a single holistic relationship with the bank is clearly proving extraordinarily successful.

PRIYANKA: Yes, absolutely.

PAULA: Wow, wow.

PAULA: Well, there’s so much there, Priyanka.

PAULA: The other key point I love that you made was around the flexibility piece, because it comes back to my favorite value, which is around the integrity of our programs.

PAULA: And you started with that in terms of your breakage statistics.

PAULA: So as well as being courageous, I think, be flexible.

PAULA: And that positioning piece, I think, is what I’m hearing coming through.

PAULA: Any other closing words of wisdom you want to share with our listeners before we go?

PRIYANKA: I would say that Middle East has become the center of a lot of innovation.

PRIYANKA: We’re talking about how by 2030 we want to be, or not even then, right?

PRIYANKA: Before that, we want to have drone, the driverless cars, we want to do all of these fantastic things.

PRIYANKA: And I think the number of fintechs, the number of innovators, the entrepreneurs that are in this particular region puts us into a very unique space to do some of the leading edge things.

PRIYANKA: And I’m really looking forward to see some of these exciting initiatives coming out from both our client programs, but equally from the region altogether.

PRIYANKA: So I’m super excited about the next few decades that I think the region has to offer.

PRIYANKA: And in terms of the loyalty experiences, we are going to experience, which are going to be unlike what we’ve seen in the last two decades.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: And again, just to acknowledge your incredible employee loyalty to the Collinson Group.

PAULA: So two decades of work there.

PAULA: And it comes through, obviously, in your passion for the whole sector.

PRIYANKA: It’s funny, Paula, the thing is that, you know, I mean, a lot of people do ask me another question as well.

PRIYANKA: How did you stick with one company for two years?

PRIYANKA: I mean, two decades, and why?

PRIYANKA: And, you know, when I got into loyalty, it was almost accidental.

PAULA: Really?

PRIYANKA: Yeah.

PRIYANKA: I studied computer information systems.

PRIYANKA: And I worked in the US for a year, and my parents, who were based in the Middle East, insisted that I come out and spend some time with them before I’m lost into the adult world.

PRIYANKA: And that’s the reason I came back to Dubai in 1998.

PRIYANKA: And I took up my position with Collinson.

PRIYANKA: And loyalty was quite in its infancy then.

PRIYANKA: Collinson was just launching the first-ever loyalty program in the region, Al-Fursan, which is Saudi Arabian Airlines frequent flyer program.

PAULA: Which still exists.

PRIYANKA: Exactly.

PRIYANKA: And I was very intrigued by it because in some ways, it brought all my sort of skill sets together.

PRIYANKA: It was the first kind of marketing initiative that was truly measurable.

PAULA: Totally.

PRIYANKA: In those days, you could have people who are spending still a lot of their advertising and the PR and the others, but were not able to measure what does all of this do.

PRIYANKA: Whereas loyalty was very scientific.

PRIYANKA: You couldn’t measure it.

PRIYANKA: You did one communication, you would see the results.

PRIYANKA: You have members, you could see member versus non-member spends.

PRIYANKA: It was very…

PRIYANKA: And that excited me.

PRIYANKA: Given my background in computers and then my minors in finance and marketing, it just played to all those trends and got me very excited.

PRIYANKA: So the first decade was really launching the first ever airline program, the first ever hotel program, the first ever financial services and the retail program.

PRIYANKA: And what I really, really enjoyed was, in this region, it never came from the marketing department.

PRIYANKA: It came straight from the CEO’s office.

PAULA: Super.

PRIYANKA: So it came straight from the top where the CEO said, I want a loyalty program.

PRIYANKA: The chairman of the company was involved in what the name should be and what they think should be.

PRIYANKA: And I think that has led to the success of so many programs over here.

PRIYANKA: In many other parts of the world, you hear about programs starting and failing, but you don’t hear about that in Middle East.

PRIYANKA: I launched and I relaunched to the next level of the program.

PRIYANKA: So I think that’s really what has kept me excited.

PRIYANKA: The first decade of my career was really working with such lovely brands and doing such fantastic things.

PRIYANKA: And the second decade of the career was really Collinson Group and the way we are innovating.

PRIYANKA: Even with, many don’t know that Collinson Group covers a number of different kinds of businesses.

PRIYANKA: So loyalty is obviously to the center of our business and customer engagement is central to it.

PRIYANKA: But we’ve got a very large medical and assistance business as well.

PRIYANKA: And with the pandemic, as an example, we used that business to set up testing at the airports.

PAULA: The PCO testing, I saw that.

PRIYANKA: So now we’ve got testing at the airports in the UK.

PRIYANKA: We’ve recently launched our testing service in Dallas, Fort Worth Airport, two locations and many more coming in.

PRIYANKA: So being at that center of innovation has always just made me think that why would you leave all of this?

PAULA: It’s like a start up every few years, you’ve got something totally new to do.

PRIYANKA: There’s just so much excitement around it and everything.

PRIYANKA: And now we are at the cusp of the new age of loyalty, where we’re talking about the non-traditional programs, about creating, applying blockchain, about NFTs and the others, which is another topic in itself, which I’m sure we will take up in the meantime.

PRIYANKA: So I think that’s what really, really keeps me excited and wanting to sort of continue being in this space.

PAULA: Yeah, yeah.

PAULA: Well, we definitely share that value as well, Priyanka, because I’ve always described myself as a commercial marketeer.

PAULA: So I started in kind of direct mail and that kind of, you know, the promotional style stuff.

PAULA: But like that, I couldn’t understand the, you know, people doing the TV ads and stuff.

PAULA: I couldn’t sleep at night if I was spending that and I couldn’t say, and here’s the return.

PAULA: So we definitely share that.

PAULA: So for people who want to get in touch with you, Priyanka, is it best to look you up on LinkedIn or what’s the best place to connect with you?

PRIYANKA: So obviously, the Collinson Group website, you know, please, you know, anybody who wants to know more about Collinson and all the fantastic stuff we’ve done with our brands, please do look up and, you know, there’s an inquiry page there where you can send in your inquiries.

PRIYANKA: But at the same time, I’m very active on LinkedIn.

PRIYANKA: So should you want to connect with me directly, just as a marketeer to marketeer and wanting to chat about something, I’m more than happy to do so as well.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Well, that’s incredible.

PAULA: And we do, again, see a lot of each other’s stuff on LinkedIn.

PAULA: So I will just say, Priyanka Lakhani, Director for South Asia, Commercial Director, Middle East and Africa at the Collinson Group.

PAULA: Thank you so much.

PAULA: Let’s talk loyalty.

PRIYANKA: Thank you, Paula.

PRIYANKA: It was lovely chatting with you.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketeer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights, and research.

PAULA: The Wise Marketeer also offers loyalty marketing training through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 170 executives in 20 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: For more information, check out thewisemarketeer.com and loyaltyacademy.org.

PAULA: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com, and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday.

PAULA: Or just head to your favorite podcast platform.

PAULA: Find Let’s Talk Loyalty and subscribe.

PAULA: Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews, and thanks again for supporting the show.