ENOC (UAE Fuel Programme) Grows With Travel, Subscriptions and Co-Brand Propositions (#673)

SURYAVEER: We were oil and gas program, and we were actually running out of gas at the time because there were no cars on the street.

SURYAVEER: You cannot just remain an unborn, you have to mean something more.

SURYAVEER: So we said, let’s look at the ecosystem in totality, create something that brings the whole proposition to life.

SURYAVEER: The non-fuel side of the business has actually seen a considerable correction.

SURYAVEER: As a product does not have much of a differentiation, whether it’s us or our competitors.

SURYAVEER: Today, as a YES Rewards member, you can actually pay by your coffee subscriptions on the phone directly.

JOANNA: On the YES Rewards app?

SURYAVEER: On the app itself.

SURYAVEER: YES Travel and Leisure was again a step coming in from the fact that today we want to be more than just a fuel rewards program.

SURYAVEER: We want to allow our members the option of fucking flights, hotels, all of it creating a much larger ecosystem.

SURYAVEER: Now, guess what?

SURYAVEER: You can fuel, fly, you can fly, fuel, and you also earn airline miles and all of that for any of your airlines.

SURYAVEER: You’re not stuck with collecting planes to fly a particular airline.

PAULA: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

PAULA: If you work in loyalty marketing, join us every week to hear the latest ideas and insights for loyalty marketing specialists around the world.

PAULA: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

PAULA: It’s Paula Thomas here, and today I’m delighted to welcome a new guest host, someone who’s been on the show a few times as one of our expert guests, given her loyalty consulting work with our partners in Comarch.

PAULA: So, Joanna Witsch is today hosting one of Comarch’s most loyal clients, Emirates National Oil Company, also known as ENOC.

PAULA: Her guest is Suryaveer Singh, who is the head of Loyalty, CRM and Data at ENOC, and more often is simply known as Suryaveer.

PAULA: Suryaveer was previously on the show as my guest back in 2021.

PAULA: And since then, the YES Rewards program has grown dramatically.

PAULA: The Loyalty program now has over a million members and includes a co-branded credit card, a subscription tier and also now a consumer travel proposition called YES Travel and Leisure, in order to evolve into a comprehensive lifestyle program, way beyond the simple fuel concept originally launched.

PAULA: I hope you enjoyed this conversation between Joanna Witsch from Comarch and Suryaveer Singh from ENOC.

JOANNA: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

JOANNA: I’m free to introduce you to my guest today and that’s Suryaveer Singh, who is leading the YES Rewards Loyalty program here in the UAE.

JOANNA: Hello Suryaveer, thank you for joining me for today’s episode.

SURYAVEER: Thank you for having me Joanna, good to see you.

JOANNA: Thank you, thank you for accepting the challenge with me and joining on the hot seat, although if I’m honest, not sure which of the cities is hotter today.

SURYAVEER: Always a pleasure, it’s always great to talk about loyalty and the things that we do.

JOANNA: Perfect, and before we talk more about loyalty and about all the good and bad and the ugly, hopefully not so much about the ugly, Paula has introduced that great habit of trying to find out a bit more about this loyalty specialists a bit behind the scenes.

JOANNA: Therefore, I would love to ask you, what’s your favorite non-fiction book, sorry, which you would like to share with me and the audience today?

SURYAVEER: Good question, non-fiction book.

SURYAVEER: Well, one of my recent reads has been a book called The Psychology of Money.

SURYAVEER: It’s by Morgan Hussle.

SURYAVEER: It is a very, very interesting read on the way, all of us, whether finance people, non-financial people actually look at money.

SURYAVEER: And it’s interesting about how, you know, when we think about finances, whether it’s personal, commercial, business, you have whatever you talk about, you know, we all look at Excel sheets and things like that.

SURYAVEER: We do.

SURYAVEER: We do, right?

SURYAVEER: But in reality, most of our financial decisions are literally made on a dinner table.

SURYAVEER: And the fact that how we think about our finances and, you know, whether even if it’s a business, it’s a very interesting read on the things that we should look at, the factors we need to consider, and how so many decisions, even in our personal lives, shape our financial decisions that we make, whether wrong or right.

JOANNA: Yes, absolutely.

JOANNA: Perfect.

JOANNA: We will make sure to link that book because it sounds very interesting.

JOANNA: And I’m sure the audience also is going to find that interesting.

JOANNA: So I’m sure the team will link it into the episode.

JOANNA: Cool.

JOANNA: Suryaveer, I remember you’ve been on the show, I think around four years ago together with Paula.

JOANNA: That must have been a couple of months, I think, launching the loyalty program, the YES Rewards program.

JOANNA: So perhaps it would be great if you can shortly introduce yourself to other audience, to those who don’t know you yet, if there are any, and remind others, you know, what’s your background and who Suryaveer is in terms of loyalty.

SURYAVEER: Well, I think that show with Paula was my first ever podcast and I think I was very, very nervous.

JOANNA: Like we all are.

SURYAVEER: Well, I moved to Dubai in 2013 and that was my first job in the loyalty space.

JOANNA: 12 years ago, nice.

SURYAVEER: 12 years ago, yeah, it’s been a while now.

SURYAVEER: I initially started my career not as a loyalty professional.

SURYAVEER: I worked in banking, advertising.

JOANNA: Ah, since you love to think financial and numbers.

JOANNA: Now I understand.

SURYAVEER: Well, it’s been a very interesting journey because, well, post my MBA, you know, it was this whole thing of we all wanted to work in banks and then we moved.

SURYAVEER: I realized that I also had an interest in the more marketing side of things.

SURYAVEER: I worked with Ogilvy, which was a great learning into building brands and then with MetLife on the marketing side.

SURYAVEER: Loyalty, I would say, happened by chance.

SURYAVEER: If you ask me why I was hired into a loyalty team, honestly, even I don’t know.

SURYAVEER: It’s a question for my boss then.

SURYAVEER: But I instantly fell in love with what I was doing.

SURYAVEER: And I think that’s when I realized that this is my calling.

SURYAVEER: I got hired by the Emirates National Oil Company in 2017 in October.

SURYAVEER: And that was the time they were looking at building their rewards program.

SURYAVEER: And that’s where the journey at ENOC, I mean, it’s the short for the Emirates National Oil Company.

SURYAVEER: We are a fuel conglomerate here in the UAE.

SURYAVEER: That’s how it started.

SURYAVEER: We were one of the first few fuel rewards programs.

JOANNA: The first one in the UAE actually, right, was in it.

SURYAVEER: Us and one of our competitors out in Abu Dhabi, John Sunafta.

SURYAVEER: I mean, we were all sort of…

SURYAVEER: I think it was a realization at the time that fuel is no more…

SURYAVEER: It was getting unregulated in the sense that a lot of the organizations had realized that we need to look at driving fuel and non-fuel revenue.

SURYAVEER: There was this whole advent of customer data acquisition.

SURYAVEER: I mean, what was happening then in Europe or probably in America is the fact that companies like American Express and all of them who’ve been, let’s say, pioneers in the loyalty space, they were present in the UAE, but customer data in the oil sector per se was not, you know, it was either, you know, okay, why do we really need it?

SURYAVEER: Do we need to invest in, you know, building that kind of infrastructure?

SURYAVEER: So yeah, back in 2017, you know, ENOC had made that decision that we need to kind of revamp the way we work in terms of customer data, and that’s where this whole journey started.

SURYAVEER: YES Rewards was launched in the end of 2020.

JOANNA: Yeah, difficult times, right?

JOANNA: The implementation must have started in the middle of the pandemic, right?

SURYAVEER: It was right in the middle of the pandemic, no cars, and I’ve said this in a podcast some time back, you know, I said we were oil and gas program and we were actually running out of gas at the time because there were no cars on the street.

JOANNA: Of course.

SURYAVEER: So yes, it was challenging.

SURYAVEER: But again, you know, we were lucky that we were in Dubai.

SURYAVEER: We were back on the streets pretty much at the end of 2021.

JOANNA: That’s true.

SURYAVEER: So yeah, it’s been a very, very interesting journey since then.

JOANNA: Bumpy, right?

JOANNA: But to start with, but you did very well.

JOANNA: That’s amazing.

JOANNA: And I guess that brings me also to the next question, Suryaveer, since you started to mention about the journey.

JOANNA: And I know for the last four years now, in this case, there were lots of changes.

JOANNA: I mean, you started thinking about, from my perspective, you’re thinking like a bit of a, you know, cozy spot where you’re thinking about, it’s an earn and burn kind of a loyalty program for fuel stations, including also the convenience store, Zoom, right?

JOANNA: And the other brands, which are part of the group.

JOANNA: But then you decided to move on very quickly, right?

JOANNA: I mean, I remember from that podcast, which you had that with Paula, you mentioned about you don’t want this program to be just transactional one, right?

JOANNA: You want this to be much more for the customer to have for much of a better experience.

JOANNA: And I guess from what I’m seeing also as a client of ENOC, as a member of the YES Rewards, I’m really seeing that happening, right?

JOANNA: You started very early with some gamification kind of features with collecting the stamps and stuff.

JOANNA: But there is much more you have done.

JOANNA: So it would be great if you can mention more about how things have shaped since.

SURYAVEER: Yes, I mean, I guess that’s been something that we had sort of ensarged right from the get go.

SURYAVEER: So when we started out, I remember back in 2020, we said, yeah, it is an earn and burn.

SURYAVEER: And I think that is fundamental to our program because in our industry, you don’t have discounts that you can give.

SURYAVEER: It’s a commodity, petrol is a commodity.

SURYAVEER: And can we start discounting that?

SURYAVEER: No.

SURYAVEER: So points was our currency when we kicked off.

SURYAVEER: One of the key objectives of the group was to drive the non-fuel business as well, because while you’ve got a set margin on fuel, non-fuel is where you’ve got your margins.

SURYAVEER: And I think even from a customer standpoint, I think non-fuel becomes a big driver.

JOANNA: Of course.

SURYAVEER: Because, yes, you’re coming to an Emirates National Oil Company gas station, or let’s say one of our forecourts.

SURYAVEER: But the fact that you can now go out and, you know, get your morning coffee or, you know, your breakfast or whatever, or get your car washed in one of our brands and things like that.

SURYAVEER: So we said, you know, let’s look at the ecosystem in totality and create something that brings the whole proposition to life, A, from an earn and burn perspective, and then graduate to becoming something more.

SURYAVEER: So, you know, without getting your fundamentals right, trying to do too much was some, you know, we were very, very cautious about that.

JOANNA: I’m sure.

SURYAVEER: At the time, there was that bit of pressure to say, all right, where is this program going to evolve?

SURYAVEER: You know, what is it that you’re going to stand for?

SURYAVEER: One thing, and that was, I think, more like a personal goal to me as well, said that you cannot just remain an on and on.

SURYAVEER: You have to mean something more.

SURYAVEER: And guess what?

SURYAVEER: The city of Dubai, you’ve got so many different programs.

SURYAVEER: So can you cut through the clutter or get everybody on board and become a more lifestyle sort of program?

JOANNA: Yeah.

SURYAVEER: Right.

SURYAVEER: And that was something that was in the back of our minds right from get go.

SURYAVEER: Internally, we wanted to kind of, of course, start financially making money for the program because otherwise what would happen is there is no way for you to do these exciting things when all you do is rake up expenses and costs.

JOANNA: And then your budget for the enhancements and anything you want to do is very minimal, right?

SURYAVEER: And I think the moment you start self-funding the program, I think from an organization perspective as well, you know, you realize that there is more support from finance because in many, you know, in many loyalty talk shows I’ve heard is, oh, how do you get finance on board?

SURYAVEER: And I think the best way to get finance on board, and there’s actually only one way to get finance on board, is to make money.

JOANNA: Correct.

SURYAVEER: Right.

SURYAVEER: And I mean, you know, there is the other side of it to reduce costs, but cost reduction is not or may not always be healthy.

SURYAVEER: You know, there are times it’s essential.

JOANNA: And anyway, how much can you even cut, right?

JOANNA: I mean, you’ve been anyway having just very, I would say, MVP size of a team, right?

JOANNA: In comparison to many other loyalty teams.

JOANNA: I’ve been even a part of, right?

JOANNA: So, I mean, how much more could you cast on?

JOANNA: Exactly.

SURYAVEER: We have four people.

SURYAVEER: It’s a very lean team.

SURYAVEER: And again, you know, I truly believe if you structure it correctly, you can create a pretty large scale program without having to bear unnecessary costs that many programs end up, you know, on boarding, just trying to scale up too fast.

SURYAVEER: Yes.

SURYAVEER: So again, Joanna, I’m coming back to the question that you said, how did we…

SURYAVEER: So the first thing we did was to, of course, start with an earn and burn, get that customer acquisition.

SURYAVEER: There was a challenge again, you know, with technology.

SURYAVEER: And I mean, you come from a tech background just like me as well.

SURYAVEER: Technology is always a challenge.

SURYAVEER: I mean, it works for us, but at the same time, it’s not always easygoing.

SURYAVEER: Yeah.

SURYAVEER: After that, we sort of commercialized the program with, when we launched our first co-branded credit card.

SURYAVEER: It was the first fuel card in the market.

SURYAVEER: I’m not very sure there is, if there is another at the moment.

JOANNA: I’m also not sure actually, we’ll have to check it out.

JOANNA: But I was also thinking about this yesterday.

JOANNA: I think you guys were pioneers in that and you remain to be on that spot.

JOANNA: Yes, and for fuel, I mean.

SURYAVEER: I mean, and see, I’ll tell you, Dubai is a very, is a very digital country.

SURYAVEER: And I think, I don’t know of many people who have a, this is a very high, highly carded market as well.

SURYAVEER: So this decision was a pretty hard one for us as well.

SURYAVEER: You know, how do you break, how do you get into customers’ wallets or today get into customers’ phones?

SURYAVEER: Everybody’s, you know, if you’ve not got your card on a digital wallet, getting your product out is very, very difficult.

JOANNA: Absolutely.

SURYAVEER: Right.

SURYAVEER: So this was one of the things we wanted to become a card in the customer’s digital wallet to enhance usage, to enhance spends on the card.

JOANNA: Yeah.

SURYAVEER: And I mean, this is inside information, but like I can tell you, it took us almost a year because we were thinking about what the proposition should be within fuel.

SURYAVEER: And our credit card has also given us very interesting insights on where our product is actually used, you know.

SURYAVEER: I mean, logically speaking, we had assumed it’s going to be our network.

SURYAVEER: But when we actually see customer behavior, and which is very interesting, I think it probably all of us behave in this way, that once you’ve got your card in your wallet, many a times you start using it for things way beyond, let’s say fuel in our case.

SURYAVEER: And that is something that kind of gives us a lot of insight, we are happy that our customers see value in it.

SURYAVEER: And so that was the start of the journey as far as commercializing the program and going beyond our network.

SURYAVEER: That’s where it started.

JOANNA: Did the numbers satisfy you in terms of, I know you may not be able to share all the information with us in terms of actual numbers, but did it satisfy you in terms of how many people decided to go for that cobrant card?

SURYAVEER: So the first year was challenging, Joanna.

JOANNA: That was back in 2022?

SURYAVEER: 2022, end of 2022 actually, when we launched.

SURYAVEER: The first year was a challenge because again, we had never really marketed a credit card.

SURYAVEER: This was something first for the bank as well, Commercial Bank of Dubai being our partner bank.

SURYAVEER: But again, you know, once we ironed out the challenges that we faced in the beginning and all of us did, the numbers have been surprisingly good.

SURYAVEER: There’s been considerable acceptance when it comes in from our members within the program, but we also saw people who were not program members realize that here there’s a fuel card.

JOANNA: It’s interesting.

SURYAVEER: And you can get a cash back or let’s say a value back in guest points or up to 15% on our network, which is considerable, right?

SURYAVEER: Because if you’re driving here, you are fueling.

SURYAVEER: And if you can get value, why not?

JOANNA: Absolutely.

SURYAVEER: So the numbers are pretty good now.

SURYAVEER: I think we’re over 20,000 plus cards.

SURYAVEER: I, you know, again, the exact figures.

JOANNA: Out of how many members Suryaveer in the program?

JOANNA: Is it one million ish?

SURYAVEER: We are above a million members now.

SURYAVEER: I mean, more than a way we are way more than a million members now.

SURYAVEER: Again, because of our category and we’ve been helped by the category.

SURYAVEER: I mean, there’s no denying that is the fact that we see, you know, I think more than 20 to 30 percent of our customers being very active with us every month, considering the fact that Dubai being a transit city, you know, there are people in the city and then out of the city and then back in the city.

SURYAVEER: And I think since you live here as well, you probably do understand that.

SURYAVEER: So, we do see very high activity rates.

SURYAVEER: We’ve seen a considerable growth in terms of transaction values in our non-fuel business, which for us was the core objective of the program.

JOANNA: I just wanted to ask, right?

JOANNA: Because besides obviously chasing the customer lifetime value, I’m sure for you, the main KPIs is actually the cross shop, right?

JOANNA: And making people not only shop fuel where you have limited margin, but really go for other brands as well.

SURYAVEER: Yeah, absolutely right.

SURYAVEER: I mean, that was one of the, let’s call that the founding principle of why we began.

JOANNA: Of course.

SURYAVEER: So the non-fuel side of the business has actually seen a considerable growth.

SURYAVEER: And, you know, just like any other loyalty program in the beginning, you know, you have to convince people that if we move towards working with data, if we start becoming way more customer centric, if we’re able to kind of reward customers in a seamless fashion, they will see value.

SURYAVEER: And that’s exactly what, you know, we have seen over a period of time.

SURYAVEER: So the non-fuel business today, I mean, if you look at our non-fuel transactions, or let’s say the average transaction value, one of the parameters that I think every program looks at, we’re almost what, a good 20 to 30% higher than Very good.

SURYAVEER: What non-members would be.

JOANNA: Yeah, that’s really good.

SURYAVEER: Exactly.

SURYAVEER: And so that is, I mean, sort of, I wouldn’t say convince the business, but that has now got the business asking us to support them with more data insights.

SURYAVEER: And from an organizational standpoint, it has resulted in everybody looking at the program for insights, for offers, for creating, you know, a lot of organizations or let’s say even us back in the day would look at discounts and things like that.

SURYAVEER: Today we’ve realized, you know what, instead of spraying and praying, let’s give value to our consumers, let those offers that matter be there for them.

JOANNA: Absolutely.

SURYAVEER: Because they are loyal to us and over a period of time we’ve seen, you know, they engage with us far more.

JOANNA: That’s what it is, yeah.

JOANNA: Now that’s an amazing story, Suryaveer.

JOANNA: And I’m seeing this also for myself, right?

JOANNA: You know, for the loyalty programs I’m using, that whenever I’m going to shop or even fill my car, right?

JOANNA: I would rather go there where the value is.

JOANNA: So very well done.

JOANNA: But I also know, Suryaveer, it’s not the end of all the things that you guys have accomplished over the last couple of years.

JOANNA: And I believe there was a very recent announcement on some more changes and even kind of wider proposition to the members.

JOANNA: Could you please share with us?

JOANNA: What did you guys launch recently?

SURYAVEER: So I think there were two things that we’ve gone ahead with.

SURYAVEER: One of the big things was launching subscriptions.

SURYAVEER: Today, as a YES Rewards member, you can actually pay by your coffee subscriptions on the phone directly.

JOANNA: On the YES Rewards app?

SURYAVEER: On the app itself and whether it is your morning coffee or let’s say a monthly, quarterly and even let’s say a six-month subscription, you can pick it up on your phone.

SURYAVEER: Our partners, the likes of Nest Cafe, Starbucks, run all their 4 plus ones, 10 plus ones and all of that with us now.

JOANNA: Fabulous.

SURYAVEER: Which again has been a big, big change.

SURYAVEER: And I think it’s, let’s say, it’s a testament to the fact that I wouldn’t really say just our YES Rewards program, but it’s a testament to the fact that if data and rewards in a program are used well, everybody is on board, including the customer, if that value, if they see value in it, right.

SURYAVEER: The other big thing that, the big news that we’ve been talking about, and I think by now, you know, some of our members would have already seen it, and probably, I guess, you’re aware of it as well, is the launch of YES Travel and Leisure.

SURYAVEER: YES Travel and Leisure was again a step coming in from the fact that today we want to be more than just a fuel rewards program.

SURYAVEER: We want to allow our members the option of booking flights, hotels, all of it, creating a much larger ecosystem, a from a program perspective and also from a revenue perspective.

SURYAVEER: Because again, UAE, you’ve got such a large expat population and a very, very travel, let’s say travel centric loyalty, local population, right?

SURYAVEER: And we wanted to sort of ride that wave as well.

SURYAVEER: And travel excites all of us.

JOANNA: Of course, it is, right?

JOANNA: We all dream about our holidays, at least a little staycation, you know, for the weekend, a longer weekend.

SURYAVEER: I mean, the amount I’ve heard of the word staycation in UAE, I don’t think I’ve heard that anywhere outside.

JOANNA: Me neither.

SURYAVEER: And so we said, you know what, if we’re able to create a proposition where you can earn and burn your points for, you know, your flights or a hotel and let that be across airlines, it could be across hotel brands and anywhere in the world.

SURYAVEER: I think it allows your consumers to kind of see a lot more value.

SURYAVEER: Of course, one of the big key things we want to focus on is keeping the prices relevant.

SURYAVEER: You don’t want to out, you know, be something, a platform, which is way too expensive for your members.

SURYAVEER: So that is something that we have very, very clear about.

SURYAVEER: We want to be as competitive as anybody else.

JOANNA: booking.com becomes not too happy about that.

SURYAVEER: I mean, I will.

JOANNA: And many others, but good job.

SURYAVEER: I would say our consumers again, you know, at the end of the day, there may be some deals that you would get with competitors as well.

JOANNA: Of course, right.

SURYAVEER: But it is interesting to see how we’ve, you know, created a little niche in terms of the travel side.

SURYAVEER: We’ve got a new little logo coming out.

JOANNA: I’ve seen that, yeah.

SURYAVEER: Exactly.

SURYAVEER: And it’s refreshing.

SURYAVEER: It’s also fun internally to start looking at communication, which is a little more travel centric and creating again, you know, what I talked about is a more enjoyable ecosystem for members as well.

JOANNA: I agree, right?

JOANNA: I mean, this is where, you know, when you think about the fuel retail loyalty program, you don’t think about this like something exciting.

JOANNA: It’s like something I have to do.

JOANNA: I have to refill my car.

JOANNA: I have to wash my car.

JOANNA: But then, yeah, when you adapt to it, that lifestyle side of things, as you say, right?

JOANNA: There is this exciting extension.

JOANNA: You know, you start to think about that program in a completely different way.

JOANNA: And I can also imagine that would drive people more to, oh, maybe I should even go for that co-brand card because then, you know, I’m collecting more points.

JOANNA: I can pay with those points later on for my holidays, right?

JOANNA: You know, even I was thinking yesterday myself, then, you know, I’m having that Frequent Flyer miles is a program connected to my co-brand card where the value I’m getting, it’s actually very little.

JOANNA: Like after one year, I’m unable even to get, you know, my flight, perhaps only some discount or something.

JOANNA: And then I’m thinking, why actually not to go for the co-brand card, which helps you earn points, which, and then you end up having your fuel for free, perhaps, or in this case, you’re getting, you know, even value for, for your holidays, for the hotel, for the flight.

JOANNA: So I think this really connects really beautifully together.

SURYAVEER: Absolutely, Joanna.

SURYAVEER: I completely, I mean, I think, so there are two kinds of programs, right?

SURYAVEER: One is where you, you partner with, let’s say a travel provider on an airline and you have a points exchange or let’s say a points exchange.

SURYAVEER: Like many, you know, and I think we would do that as well with certain partners or a card that allows you to earn.

SURYAVEER: But if you look at what the actual ratios you earn or what you need to achieve to be able to get that upgrade or hotel night free or whatever you’re looking at, you know, it’s, it takes a while.

SURYAVEER: And there are customers who are more, let’s say brand centric.

SURYAVEER: And then there are customers who are more value centric and who realize that at the end of the day, this gives me more value.

SURYAVEER: And which is one of the reasons we said, okay, when we’re looking at travel and leisure, A, let’s insure great prices.

SURYAVEER: But secondly, pass that back because of course, we make money on it as well.

JOANNA: It’s a commercial proposition for us.

SURYAVEER: But we said, guess what?

SURYAVEER: Let’s almost pass about close to 50% back to the customer.

JOANNA: This is amazing.

SURYAVEER: Yeah, because at the end of the day, you want that consumer or our member to feel rewarded and saying, you know, there has to be a reason why you use YES versus anybody else.

JOANNA: Anything else, yeah, or collect any other whatever miles or points and so on.

SURYAVEER: So we’ve tried to, I mean, we’re being very, very clear on this that, you know, because on the fuel side, as you said, there is only as many points you can earn, right?

SURYAVEER: Because you have a car which has a size of a certain gas tank, which you can fuel maybe four times a year or four times a month, I’m sorry.

SURYAVEER: And that allows you to earn only a certain number of points.

JOANNA: Correct.

SURYAVEER: But now, guess what?

SURYAVEER: You can fuel, fly, you can fly, fuel, and you also earn airline miles and all of that for any of your airlines.

SURYAVEER: So it doesn’t matter, you know, you’re not stuck with the choice that I am collecting points to fly a particular airline, right?

SURYAVEER: Because again, today, you know, you may be, if you live in Poland, you are using that, I don’t know if you use Lot or Emirates or whichever, correct, whichever airline of your choice.

SURYAVEER: But at the same time, we have such a large population that is flying east.

SURYAVEER: So we’ve sort of opened up that option for members.

SURYAVEER: You can earn miles from your bookings, YES Rewards points from your bookings, you can earn points from the co-branded credit card as you mentioned, and you would earn points for a Frequent Flyer program if you’re part of any.

SURYAVEER: So there is a pretty holistic ecosystem now and a strong reason for you to come on board.

JOANNA: Absolutely, absolutely.

JOANNA: Your competitors should shake now.

JOANNA: I’m sure they do if they are listening.

SURYAVEER: I mean, I guess, you know what, at the end of the day, a competition is healthy and I think within all of us…

JOANNA: And it’s good to have, right?

JOANNA: It’s always for us, you know, a reason to do more and look at things in a different way.

SURYAVEER: I mean, it keeps us on our toes as well.

SURYAVEER: And it allows us to sort of also, you know, learn from what’s happening outside.

SURYAVEER: So having said that, we’re also looking at a number of other partnerships.

JOANNA: So there is more on your agenda.

SURYAVEER: Of course.

SURYAVEER: Some of them may be points exchanges.

SURYAVEER: There may be, you know, you will hear of that pretty soon.

SURYAVEER: You know, we’re looking at some of the bigger reward programs in the region as well.

SURYAVEER: And it all comes from the fact that you mentioned earlier, you know, fuel may not be the most, I wouldn’t say it’s not the most interesting category.

SURYAVEER: It’s a need.

JOANNA: Correct.

SURYAVEER: And giving all due respect to our brands, you know, the fact that it is something that you have to do.

SURYAVEER: But the amount of time that you spend in a gas station is small.

SURYAVEER: It’s, you know, maybe 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes at max.

SURYAVEER: So how do you engage with your consumers?

SURYAVEER: And how do you give them value beyond what we do?

SURYAVEER: And I think that’s something that we’ve been very, very focused on now.

SURYAVEER: And this whole space of partnerships, you know, travel and leisure and all of that sort of increases the overall proposition of the program.

JOANNA: I think it’s also a challenge, you know, the way, of course, the service happens here as well.

JOANNA: You know, what you mentioned, that the time, you know, for your customer at your forecourt is very limited, of course, it’s a very short time.

JOANNA: And on top, you don’t have really people interaction, right, so much.

JOANNA: I mean, yes, you have a guy who is going to refill your car or clean, if you go for the car wash, but if it’s just refueling, it’s just pay, that’s it, right?

JOANNA: Scan your, I mean, give them the OTP, pay and off you go.

JOANNA: Right?

JOANNA: So it’s very limited, unlike perhaps, you know, with any other retail where, you know, you have that interaction with the store staff who can introduce you to the program, who can tell you about the office.

JOANNA: This is something completely missing.

JOANNA: And perhaps for the audience, you know, who don’t know that, you know, we are not getting out of our cars to go into the shop and pay for the fuel, right?

JOANNA: Everything happens right there on the forecourt.

JOANNA: So this interaction is being so limited.

JOANNA: This is why, as you say, right?

JOANNA: I mean, you have to think about, what is my other way, actually, right?

JOANNA: To engage those customers, to feel valued, right?

SURYAVEER: I can’t agree more.

SURYAVEER: I cannot agree more because, again, you know, for people in the, when I say West, I mean, let’s say some parts of America, because there are some states in the US where you probably still have, you know, attendants who would help you fuel your car.

SURYAVEER: But if you look at primary, you know, if you look at majority countries in Europe and let’s say the West, you’re actually getting out of your car, if you’re going to pay for it in the C store.

SURYAVEER: So there’s that natural physical movement, or if you pay on the pump, there is that engagement with, in the convenience store.

SURYAVEER: In UAE, and I think even in the subcontinent, you don’t step out of your car.

SURYAVEER: Also, as you mentioned, I come from a retail, a retail background before this.

SURYAVEER: And there, you had an experiential, you had the advantage of an experience that you provide.

SURYAVEER: It was not just about the rewards program.

SURYAVEER: It was big on the brand as well.

SURYAVEER: You know, when you walked into a department store, you walked into, you know, let’s say a restaurant.

SURYAVEER: Rewards were one part of it, but it was the whole experience of that ecosystem.

SURYAVEER: Now, in our case again, I mean, and again, this is something we are very proud of.

SURYAVEER: If you look at the fuel stations in UAE and our convenience stores, you know, we have got, we are very digitally savvy.

SURYAVEER: We’ve got digital screens everywhere.

SURYAVEER: The whole network looks, has got this very high end sort of a look to it as well, which is unlike many gas stations in other places.

SURYAVEER: So, I mean, but that’s, as far as you can go, as far, you know, from a customer physical experience standpoint.

JOANNA: Absolutely.

JOANNA: Yes.

SURYAVEER: But yes, so, you know, we have to ensure that what is that extra bit we do to A, engage, get customer data, create value, and overall retain customer.

SURYAVEER: You know, you talked about customer lifetime value, right?

SURYAVEER: So a customer would, that lifetime figure would only exist or grow if you engage customers throughout that journey.

JOANNA: That’s it.

SURYAVEER: And, you know, one thing very interesting in our category is that petrol as a product does not have much of a differentiation, whether it’s us or our competitors.

SURYAVEER: So here’s a product of equals.

SURYAVEER: But how do you get a Joanna to come to our gas station versus somewhere else?

SURYAVEER: You know, it could be, is it a subscription?

SURYAVEER: Is it a coffee?

SURYAVEER: Is it the service?

SURYAVEER: Or is it the rewards program that kind of allows her to experience everything else, including the journey that they come to in ENOC?

SURYAVEER: So, yes, it’s been very, very exciting and challenging times.

SURYAVEER: I mean, but we do believe that there is a long way to go for us, especially now with the way technology is changing.

JOANNA: Indeed.

SURYAVEER: And there’s so much more.

SURYAVEER: I mean, we all get excited, but there’s so much more you can do.

JOANNA: Absolutely.

JOANNA: And since you’re talking about the technology, anything AI related, Suryaveer, I know you’ve been mentioning some of you guys are doing some trials and you want to engage more like everyone does, I think nowadays, looking to the future, there seems to be no other way.

SURYAVEER: So AI is a big buzzword.

SURYAVEER: I won’t even say a buzzword anymore, I think.

SURYAVEER: But there is a lot that is being done in terms of artificial intelligence and machine learning out at ENOC.

SURYAVEER: With specifics to the program, yes, there are things that we are building.

SURYAVEER: And we, I’m not sure, again, it’s, I would say, it’s our step into providing a better experience using technology.

SURYAVEER: Now, I mean, whether all of it, I would, you know, categorize it as artificial intelligence.

SURYAVEER: Yeah.

SURYAVEER: But, you know, we want to look at how we can enhance our customer service support.

SURYAVEER: And I am not going to say it’s bots because that is something which is done to death and they have had some sort of an experience.

SURYAVEER: But looking at, you know, a more bespoke customer experience.

SURYAVEER: And we did do a couple of tests back in the day when we were looking at, you know, segmentation.

SURYAVEER: And this is more related to, you know, offer management and segmentation and hyper-personalization with AI.

SURYAVEER: And I think the first time we did that, it was in 2023.

JOANNA: Nice, two years ago.

SURYAVEER: At the time, the technology wasn’t where it is today.

JOANNA: No, it wasn’t.

SURYAVEER: But we haven’t commercialized it, but we did get a lot of learning from it.

SURYAVEER: And it’s clearly told us what the overall potential of AI and machine learning and whatever else is coming our way.

JOANNA: Fabulous, yeah.

JOANNA: Yeah, I think, you know, many other companies here, they are still somewhat there, as you say, right?

JOANNA: You know, people are rather trying things and see what works.

JOANNA: And we know AI isn’t magic.

JOANNA: If you don’t have enough data, if you don’t have enough quality data for the specific period of time, then the outcome is also as bad as the data, right?

JOANNA: So, but there is definitely lots, lots coming in.

JOANNA: And Suryaveer, I think slowly we will have to be wrapping up for today.

JOANNA: But before we finish, I think there are a couple of things you’ve guys been awarded for very recently and recognize for the accomplishments that you have done over the last couple of years, right?

SURYAVEER: Well, it always feels nice to be recognized.

SURYAVEER: Thanks for that, Joanna.

SURYAVEER: We did get an award in 2025 at a Loyalty event back in March.

SURYAVEER: I’m bad with dates.

SURYAVEER: For our co-brand program and for Loyalty Marketing.

SURYAVEER: So it’s been a good start.

JOANNA: Yeah.

SURYAVEER: Hope for a fairly successful year 2025.

JOANNA: Exactly.

JOANNA: And let’s see what’s happening next week on the International Loyalty Awards.

JOANNA: Fingers crossed as well.

JOANNA: Going to see you there and the team as well.

JOANNA: So that’s lovely.

JOANNA: So one last question, Suryaveer.

JOANNA: Any final thoughts, anything you would like to share with the audience before we wrap up for today?

SURYAVEER: I think something that I say every time, keep it simple, keep the customer at the center of it.

SURYAVEER: And, you know, all the complex loyalty, jargon, tech, all of that is for us, but from a customer standpoint, just be relevant.

JOANNA: Yeah.

JOANNA: And I can’t agree more.

JOANNA: I think it’s very important to start small and then just grow and understand, I think also it’s important what your customers are after and follow the numbers and the data insights, what they are telling you, right?

JOANNA: Very important.

JOANNA: Perfect.

JOANNA: Thank you very much, Suryaveer.

JOANNA: Thank you for joining me today.

JOANNA: And for sharing all the amazing stories and accomplishments.

JOANNA: And thank you to the audience also for listening in for the Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

SURYAVEER: Thank you for having me, Joanna.

SURYAVEER: Always a pleasure.

JOANNA: Of course.

JOANNA: Same here.

JOANNA: Thank you.

PAULA: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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