My RYOBI: Building Loyalty That Lasts with Data, Personalisation & Progress Over Perfection (#755)

Paula: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Paula: Today’s episode is hosted by Carly Neubauer, Managing Director of Elevate Loyalty, a loyalty experiences company specializing in designing, implementing and managing B2C and B2B loyalty programs.

Paula: She’s also the Managing Director of Loyalty Economics, a global community and content site focused on turning loyalty into profitability.

Paula: Enjoy.

Carly: Hello, and welcome to Lets Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Carly: Today, I am speaking with Locky Wright, who is a Senior Leader in Loyalty, CRM and Customer Strategy, with a track record across some of Australia’s biggest consumer brands.

Carly: Most recently, RYOBI Power Tools, My RYOBI.

Carly: He’s known for transforming customer experiences through data-driven personalization, life-cycle design and innovative loyalty programs.

Carly: Please enjoy my conversation with Locky.

Carly: Hey, Locky, so great to have you here today.

Carly: Really big welcome to you.

Locky: Thank you, thank you for having me.

Carly: So as we do on every episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty, let’s start with your favorite book, please.

Locky: Yeah, definitely.

Locky: So to be honest, Carly, I found it a little hard to find time for reading over the last couple of years.

Locky: So we’ve got a 20 month old child, which is limited by ability to get time in to dive into some books.

Locky: So I find myself doing a lot of short learning, a lot of podcasts, a lot of articles.

Locky: So TLDR is one distribution or publication that I lean on a lot and take a lot in and then balance that with podcasts.

Locky: However, looking back on the books prior to around two years ago, This Is Marketing by Seth Gottem is a big one.

Locky: And it really came at a great time in my life.

Locky: When I first read that is when I was transitioning from more of a traditional marketing role, then into a loyalty, more specific loyalty CRM function.

Locky: And it really challenged the role of traditional marketing and moving it to more of a human-centered design.

Locky: So it shifted my thought process, it challenged some of those traditional thoughts.

Locky: It really put the customer at the end and really looking focused more around what are you solving for and what are you helping and having that empathy around the customer.

Locky: So it really challenged my thinking around marketing as I transitioned from a more traditional marketing role into a more dedicated loyalty and CRM position.

Carly: This is a great one and I think there’s a pretty great outtake from that book of the smallest viable audience.

Carly: And that’s quite relevant in loyalty, I think.

Locky: Yeah, definitely.

Locky: And I think that is you’ve got to find that pocket of customers that have that affinity with the brand and have the greatest likelihood of having that affinity and really grow from there.

Locky: So it kind of goes, it kind of, as I mentioned earlier, really challenges that traditional marketing approach of more as Merrier.

Locky: So just getting awareness, driving, screaming, having that spamming approach and being more focused and targeted and really identify who has a greater propensity to be a Loyalist and a high-value customer with you.

Carly: Yeah, great stuff.

Carly: And I imagine that would have been very useful in the design of your My RYOBI program.

Carly: With 100%.

Carly: Which we will get.

Locky: Definitely.

Carly: So the next question we always ask all our guests, is favorite loyalty program, which one is yours?

Locky: Yeah.

Locky: So I’ve got a couple, but I think one that resonates with me most is the Velocity Frequent Fly program.

Locky: I had the benefit of working closely with Velocity when I was at Hertz.

Locky: And I got to see how they worked, how they utilized customer data, and really how they balance aspiration with everyday earning.

Locky: So they balance that aspiration of wanting to travel, but able to fulfill that day-to-day need of watching your points rise.

Locky: And how they are able to do that, and how they utilize data to achieve that is quite impressive.

Locky: And I love how they’ve continued to build that partnership ecosystem, which enables their customers to really build on those points on a day-to-day basis, and also provide opportunities around how customers utilize their points as well.

Locky: So I think they’ve just built from the ground quite a simplistic and easy-to-understand program that has enabled customers to have an affinity with that, as they’re able to understand the perks and the benefits of that program from a day-to-day, but then also layer up from an aspirational standpoint.

Carly: Fabius, and I think we have heard that chosen as what the favorite for multiple times, but for such good reasons as well.

Carly: Such good reasons, especially when you come from a loyalty perspective as to why it’s so popular and why you love it, not just, I love travel, that’s great.

Locky: Yeah, exactly right.

Carly: Yeah, good stuff.

Carly: So you did touch on your background.

Carly: Tell us a bit about how did you end up in the role here and what was your journey?

Locky: I started out in airline marketing and worked in quite small teams.

Locky: So worked across the board, had the hands in a lot of jars.

Locky: So looked after brand, tactical, destination marketing, CRM, very much in its infancy back then.

Locky: And then basically built an understanding and appreciation for customer data.

Locky: At that point in time, to help expand my skill set, I identified an opportunity to become more well rounded by complementing my skill sets by moving into a dedicated loyalty role.

Locky: And that’s when I moved to Hertz Gold Plus Rewards, where I managed that loyalty program across Asia Pacific.

Locky: And I’ve ever since then really had a strong affinity to loyalty in the CRM space, as you try and balance really customer data, the commercial strategy and then psychology as well.

Locky: And it’s really trying to lead into all of those elements that gives a lot of enjoyment, a lot of excitement.

Locky: And then from there, I’ve really built my career at a stint at Spotlight Retail Group, and then moved to Tektronic Industries, which is a parent company, which RYOBI sits under there.

Locky: So since joined the business, I’ve stood up a loyalty program and built capability in that space, and a program called My RYOBI, which we’ll touch on no doubt later.

Carly: Yes, definitely.

Carly: I love that you’ve summarized a few of the really key points that most loyalty professionals absolutely love, this blend of the data and the data side of things, but also psychology and how you bring that all together.

Carly: And then obviously with your previous reference around the marketing as well.

Locky: Definitely.

Locky: And I think it’s, yes, you get to see the short term wins, but it’s the long term build that you’re working on.

Locky: So it’s that long term relationship.

Locky: We know that loyalty isn’t necessarily built overnight.

Locky: So how do you go about building out that engagement across the customer lifetime to build that loyalty because it takes time.

Locky: So being able to balance and understand each of those aspects around the commercial strategy, the customer data and the psychology and the role that that plays in, the longevity of building a loyalty is a lot of fun.

Locky: And I get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

Carly: Sure.

Carly: And I think that can be sometimes maybe misleading as we want to see some instant results and some short wins to feel good, especially around a bunch of a program.

Carly: How do you sustain that knowing that it is a long term play?

Locky: It is a really interesting position.

Locky: It is a constant balance.

Locky: You want to be able to get the wins on the board and show the commercial return of that to maintain momentum of the program within the business.

Locky: But you need to be focused around the longer term goals.

Locky: So it’s always that balance of what are you trying to deliver to maintain the customer value, but also the commercial value at that standpoint.

Locky: So it’s this constant tug of war, but no doubt it is really important in those early phases that you are delivering commercial returns to show to the business that yes, it is self-funded and it does have the longevity.

Locky: And you’re not just, whilst you might be even generating top line growth, but you’re not diminishing bottom line growth at that same time.

Locky: So yeah, it’s an ongoing conversation that’s always being had.

Carly: Yes, yes, I can imagine.

Carly: And that one in particular around, you’ve mentioned before your internal stakeholders.

Carly: And I know we have chatted about this, that how did you take them on the journey?

Carly: Let’s start talking about My RYOBI and your program.

Carly: And how you took your internal team on that journey as well.

Carly: So describe the program first, shall we?

Locky: Yeah, so it’s quite different.

Locky: So at RYOBI, we produce the products and develop the products and we sell our products through Bunnings.

Locky: So what we require customers to do is come on, create an account with My RYOBI on the RYOBI website, go into Bunnings, purchase their tool, come back on to the website, register that product, upload the relevant details.

Locky: From there, with that information, we’re enabled to then provide relevant details to that customer to ensure that they have the best product experience possible.

Locky: So we’re looking at things like how-to tips, product maintenance tips to ensure that they get the longevity and the best of that product, whether it’s day one or day 2000.

Locky: So we’re there to support the customer through that journey.

Locky: In addition to that, we make recommendations around accessories to ensure that they’re once again getting that best product experience, but then also helping that customer along their DIY journey.

Locky: So if they’re looking to take on that next project, we’re able to then recommend product tips that might enable them to achieve that.

Carly: Nice.

Paula: What would be the journey like?

Carly: And obviously I could go onto the site technically and just sign up shortly, right?

Carly: So what’s the difference between just signing up online versus I’ve bought one of the products and now I’ve signed up and I’m registering that?

Locky: Yeah.

Locky: So there’s a fair bit of difference.

Locky: So if you do sign up and register, if you do just sign up and create an account, you still get a large number of features and benefits.

Locky: So you’re still getting things like new product notifications.

Locky: So you’ll be the first to know when products hit the store, you’ll get some promotions and some incentives, but also provide you with the ability to enter competitions as well.

Locky: But by having the ability to register your product and when you go on and add it to your virtual toolkit, we’re able to say, well, Carly has potentially a drill.

Locky: We’re able to then give Carly when she registers that tool, we’re able to give her some tips around how to construct the drill.

Locky: Then once she’s had it for a while, we’re able to then give some maintenance tips off the back of it.

Locky: But then we will stay able to make those recommendations around what goes best with that drill?

Locky: What drill bits do you need?

Locky: So what’s the right product and what’s the right accessories for you, Carly, to get the best, to enable you to deliver the project that you’re looking to do?

Locky: And then in addition, like I mentioned slightly earlier, we’re able to then make recommendations.

Locky: So we can say, Carly, if you’re purchasing a drill, maybe that next product for you is a saw.

Locky: That’s going to enable to take your project game up to the next level.

Locky: And that will then enable you to expand that toolkit, achieve more and take on that next level of the project that you might be looking to take on.

Carly: Okay.

Carly: What are your biggest challenges?

Carly: How does that work day to day?

Locky: Yeah, so one of our challenges, and I think a lot of loyalty programs are facing this on a day to day basis is, well, how do you continue to scale?

Locky: How do we know what customers want?

Locky: The feedback that we’re getting around our program is positive.

Locky: So we’re confident that the exchange and the value exchange is appropriate, and the customers are seeing that.

Locky: But how do you continue to make the right communication to as many customers as possible?

Locky: So how do we break down those barriers?

Locky: How do we get the right information?

Locky: And how do we understand our customers even further and create more relationships with those potential and existing customers to ensure that we’re able to help them through the journey?

Locky: So, yeah, it’s really how you continue to then scale that program.

Locky: We’ve got an audience at the moment, but how do we extend that?

Locky: How do we make sure that we’re getting to every RYOBI owner in Australia and able to give them that enhanced product experience that we know our existing My RYOBI customers have?

Carly: Another one we have talked about previously, and I’d love you to discuss a bit further, is organisational silos and bringing internal stakeholders on the journey.

Locky: Yeah, it’s a big one.

Locky: I looked back at when I started out my career, as we tried to really build and matured around CRM, and moving from loyalty and CRM is just an email-based initiative.

Locky: You do is just serve emails.

Locky: You get that out.

Locky: That’s how you’re going to build loyalty.

Locky: Trying to break down and educate, it’s more than just that, it’s far more.

Locky: So really starting out early around education of what you’re trying to do, trying to do the importance of it, really then building relationships across the business.

Locky: So you’ve got champions within different functions, that when you’re walking to a room, you’ve got people that will then support the cause, but really going back to the education and really bringing people together to build the understanding of why you need it and why it’s important.

Locky: If you have, and we talk about it constantly, loyalty program is one lever within a graded loyalty strategy.

Locky: Loyalty, as we spoke about, isn’t just built overnight, but it can be lost overnight.

Locky: So you can build loyalty not just through a program, but through lots of different touch points.

Locky: You think about every moment that a customer has with a business, that’s a moment of opportunity.

Locky: And we know, I think we both know Adam Posner, who talks about loyalty and those moments, and they’re really important.

Locky: So it’s giving them an understanding of what their role plays within loyalty itself and how that contributes to it, because it is a business-wide approach.

Locky: It’s just not one function that goes, yep, you’re loyalty, you’re driving loyalty.

Locky: It’s far more than that.

Locky: And we’re all responsible for driving it.

Carly: I love your point around obviously long-term loyalty, but you can lose it so quickly as well.

Carly: And I think that’s something that we’re probably all remember on a daily, need to remember on a daily basis how quickly it can be lost.

Carly: Do you have any examples, either current or previous of mistakes where it didn’t go right?

Locky: Yeah, yeah.

Locky: And I looked back early on in my career in the aviation space.

Locky: So when you had to make cancellations for circumstances outside of your control and trying to have that conversation with customers that had a really important event that they needed to get to.

Locky: And it is that balance of, well, safety takes priority.

Locky: That’s what we need to do, that in educating customers, having those conversations, but then being able to win them back with the way that you engage them.

Locky: Yes, it’s outside of our control, but we’re putting you at the forefront of the decision making.

Locky: So then really starting to rationale with those customers and even then bringing back, and not necessarily early on, but looking back then at things like win back campaigns.

Locky: Well, how do you win back those customers that you lose?

Locky: How do you identify triggers for loss?

Locky: And then how do you then instigate initiatives that automate the goal about winning back those customers to ensure, yep, they have an understanding.

Locky: Yes, it wasn’t the greatest experience, but this is what they’re doing to win me back.

Locky: Yes, I’ll give them another go.

Locky: Let’s give it another try.

Locky: And I think that is a big one.

Locky: I think we can all talk about that.

Locky: We’ve been at businesses whereby we’ve had moments where customers have lost their loyalty over an incident and very frustrated through the experience, but it’s how you then go back, winning back that customer.

Locky: And you can actually end up building that loyalty off the back of it even further.

Locky: You can actually come out of it on top of it.

Locky: It doesn’t always have to be negative, but it’s the mindset that you go into it with.

Carly: Definitely.

Carly: And I think there’s a lot of great case studies and examples around the ability to win back, but that additional level of loyalty once done, when done right.

Carly: And that can be quite powerful when done correctly as well.

Locky: Yeah, exactly right.

Locky: Exactly right.

Locky: And I think that is that test and learning of finding out that sweet spot of what does that look like?

Locky: What is the right position in that instance?

Locky: And it’s something that you constantly work on to identify, to improve on, to get the positive outcome for both customer and their business.

Carly: There’s a really great quote you mentioned in a previous conversation around progression over perfection.

Carly: Tell us about that.

Locky: Yeah, it’s a really interesting one.

Locky: Probably one that probably challenged me early on in my career, whereby you wanted things to be perfect.

Locky: You wanted to be the ideal.

Locky: But at the cost of that, you then had longer time on development, you had longer times to get it live, or even some instances lost momentum and it didn’t get live.

Locky: And not necessarily talking about just programs, but initiatives in their own right.

Locky: And really balancing then, well, how do you get something out to start learning?

Locky: So if you get something live, how do you start learning from that?

Locky: So you can continue to optimize and improve.

Locky: And we spoke about different terms Carly, but MVP, a minimal viable product.

Locky: And getting it in, and you speak about balancing the short term for the long term as well, Carly, but having something out there in market that yes, is still to a good quality actually helps understand and deliver long term games.

Locky: And I’ve found it especially important when you’ve had questions from stakeholders across the business around certain components of what you’re trying to sell in or get over the line and certain things of like a proof of concept is really helpful to help bring in some data and use some insight around, well, yes, what you’re actually seeing rather than what’s potentially being put forward.

Locky: So it’s unbiased insight and unbiased information that helps gain progress and helps you achieve your long term goals.

Locky: So it’s definitely something I’ve looked on and utilized around having that mindset of progress over perfection and looking at things like proof of concepts as well.

Carly: This is great.

Carly: And as you said, because in the loyalty space, I mean, there are times when loyalty programs could be developed, let’s say, and never go live or take an exceptionally long time for a range of reasons.

Carly: And there’s a lot of danger in that.

Carly: So at least being live, starting to get into market and starting to learn.

Locky: Exactly right, exactly right.

Locky: And those learnings are paramount in terms of how you continue to improve and develop on not only the business but the customer experience as well.

Locky: And then it helps you also, if you can show early wins, it can then help you go in and then push them all down the track.

Locky: Look at what we’ve delivered.

Locky: We’ve got another idea.

Locky: Let’s try this.

Locky: And then you’re more likely to go, oh yeah, let’s give it a go.

Locky: We’re going to contain it to a smaller group, but at least then we’re getting some information and some validation around what we’ve proposed and what we’ve suggest.

Locky: And we’re able to then use that moving forward.

Carly: Definitely.

Carly: And let’s be honest, loyalty is not set and forget.

Carly: We’re always evolving.

Carly: It needs to continue to grow.

Carly: So important to be a market to start getting those learnings and growth path.

Locky: Yeah, that’s right.

Locky: It’s one of my bug bears that phrase set and forget, Carly.

Locky: Because it assumes that you’ve got a perfect.

Locky: And that’s not necessarily the case.

Locky: You’ve never got a perfect.

Locky: If you think you’ve got something perfect, you’re leaving yourself open.

Locky: There’s always developments going on.

Locky: And that’s one of the reasons why I love the loyalty space is the speed at which there’s progress.

Locky: So you could be missing out on opportunities with that set and forget mindset.

Locky: So it’s always important that you come back.

Locky: Yes, you might leave it to build some data to have a strong sample size, but it’s important that you come back to it and really assess, well, where’s this opportunity for optimizations?

Locky: How can we streamline it?

Locky: How can we drive greater growth from that?

Locky: So a set and forget mindset is not something that I favor that mindset, but yeah, continuous improvement and optimization is something that I definitely lean on.

Carly: Yeah, absolutely.

Carly: And let’s be honest, even if you hypothetically did have it perfect in the market, the landscape changes quite quickly.

Carly: So you need to always be with a growth path mindset, definitely.

Locky: Exactly right.

Locky: And it’s not even just within your own industry, it’s across the board as well.

Locky: So you’ve got to have your eyes open.

Locky: Customers expect if you’re making changes or if someone else is making changes, why can’t you make those changes?

Locky: So you’ve got to be mindful of that customer expectation and look at what is occurring in that set and forget area because often you’ll see a decline.

Locky: If you just leave it go over and over a time, you need to look at ways that you can optimize it.

Carly: I think you touched on a really good point, the industry itself because consumers and members expectations will be driven by what they’re seeing and say utilizing in even a completely different sector, but that starts to change what they’re expecting to see from you.

Carly: What are you seeing in that industry?

Carly: What do you love the most about the industry at the moment?

Locky: Yeah, it’s definitely the speed, to be honest Carly, and the rate at which there’s progress.

Locky: So between technology and AI, it’s making things a lot quicker to amplify and to gain progress.

Locky: Now, as we spoke about, there are challenges in that, in terms of balancing things like program personality, building trust and those elements, but I love the speed at which the industry is progressing.

Locky: Secondly, I love the fact that you can measure impact.

Locky: It’s really nice to be able to release something, to try something and see the knock on effect, and really see the uplift and the contribution that is driving from that.

Locky: And maybe it’s not even the positive, maybe it’s around what didn’t work, but you’re able to measure it quite quickly.

Locky: And then in addition, the continued evolution of programs.

Locky: So we’ve evolved from the traditional point-based program to a more customer-centric program.

Locky: And we speak about My RYOBI, what we’ve been looking to do around driving that enhanced product experience.

Locky: And you see that shift towards that space, and then that continued evolution around partnership ecosystems.

Locky: So how can businesses partner with businesses to provide more value to their customers and the shared customers as well?

Locky: So the nature of the industry and the fact that it continually changes keeps you on your feet.

Carly: Oh yeah, absolutely true.

Carly: And it’s only getting faster, that’s to be honest.

Locky: Yeah, exactly right.

Carly: What about your most important lesson in your career?

Carly: What would that look like?

Locky: Yeah, and I look back early on around the need to build relationships.

Locky: And we spoke about building relationships with key stakeholders around it.

Locky: But building stakeholder relationships enables you to accelerate strategy.

Locky: So being able to build those champions across the business, get buy in and to have those conversations to even when it comes to brainstorming ideas, being able to come out with the more well-rounded solution because you’ve got the open ears of the stakeholders that you’ve built those relationships with, enables you to come up with a far better product, a far more considered product, but also enables you to then step through and more likely to get approvals or feedback quicker on those thoughts and proposals because you’ve had that consideration across the business.

Locky: And that’s what I mean by it’s easy to accelerate that strategy.

Locky: And then secondly, a big one is the commercial side of it.

Locky: You need to know your numbers and you need to be focused on, well, is it driving the positive commercial return?

Locky: Because that is fundamentally key.

Locky: Whilst you are balancing customers as well, if you can’t show the commercial uplift, you’re not probably going to be able to scale it.

Locky: You’re just not going to be able to get it in the buy-in from the business, and that’s going to then prevent those challenges.

Locky: So there are two key learnings that I’ve had around those relationships and that commercial side of it, which are key to moving forward with loyalty.

Carly: But I think, let’s state the obvious, not even just loyalty in terms of stakeholder relationships and even key relationships of whoever you’re influencing in this case and knowing your numbers, it’s essential in so many, that would translate to so many careers, I imagine.

Locky: Yeah, exactly right.

Locky: Exactly right.

Carly: What about some advice you’d give someone starting out?

Carly: Firstly, should they go into loyalty?

Locky: I would definitely recommend it.

Locky: It’s such a great industry and a great space.

Locky: And we speak about constant evolution, but in terms of recommendations for someone heading into loyalty, be inquisitive.

Locky: Don’t say no to anything.

Locky: Be open-minded.

Locky: Go in there, really absorb the information.

Locky: Get under the hood.

Locky: Understand it.

Locky: Don’t block yourself off that you only want to look after certain areas, because I think having a broader understanding makes you a more well-rounded loyalty expert.

Locky: And then secondly is know your numbers.

Locky: It’s a really big one.

Locky: If you want to build respect really quickly, knowing your numbers definitely helps that.

Locky: If you can walk into a room, understand the numbers, the contribution of the program, and the KPIs around it, it’s going to gain a lot more years than if you don’t know that.

Locky: So they’re two key components that I would recommend to people entering the loyalty space.

Carly: Nice, nice.

Carly: If we’re talking the industry a little bit more, where do you think we have some room to improve?

Carly: So we won’t put anyone off who’s starting in the industry.

Carly: Great advice, but where’s some areas that we should improve?

Locky: Yeah, I think we’ll see the constant improvement around the acceleration of the personalization of programs.

Locky: So I know it’s frowned upon now, but the batch and blast approach will just continue to decline.

Locky: So how can businesses continually use automation, AI to enable that?

Locky: Customers expect far more personalized experiences, and we can see that they’ve got their willingness to pay attention.

Locky: When that isn’t there, drops off very quickly.

Locky: So churn starts to rise.

Locky: So that is something that will continue to improve.

Locky: Simplicity is another big one.

Locky: So the complex programs that will require customers to jump through hoops, you’ll just lose their focus.

Locky: They’ll look elsewhere.

Locky: There’s so much noise around loyalty programs at the moment.

Locky: So simplicity is key.

Locky: So making it easy for the customer, making it really clear around what the key value exchange is, is really important.

Locky: Because as soon as that customer notices that the value exchange starts to drop off, then that’s when they’ll start to engage.

Locky: And I think that’s where, I think we’ll start to see a shift back.

Locky: I think there’s been at times where first party data has been so pivotal, especially with the dropping of cookies and the reduction in that space, that the business has become focused, so focused on building first party data, but at what cost?

Locky: And I think that balance is going to start to come back and favor more than our customers.

Locky: They are far more conscious around things like privacy and therefore understanding that key value exchange is going to be really important.

Locky: And the simplicity around getting that value is going to be key.

Carly: It was a huge one.

Carly: We’ve done a lot of talking about that through this show and generally in the industry.

Carly: In regards to your program and person, what I want to ask you before we wrap up is success.

Locky: Yeah.

Carly: Do you define a success person and program?

Locky: Yeah.

Locky: So personally, I look back and I think about the things and the initiatives, the programs, and the capability that we’ve been able to build.

Locky: But I really build and look at success, at progression, the relationships that I’ve been able to build, and that commercial accountability.

Locky: That’s been really key.

Locky: And the fact that you want to continue to build on that is something that I based myself off.

Locky: So continually inquisitive, continually driving improvement, just not of me, but the program, the team as well around us, to ensure that we’re getting the best out of ourselves and we’re continually growing personally and as a business as well.

Locky: And then as a program, it’s really driving incremental growth.

Locky: So not just looking at driving overall revenue, it’s the incremental growth that program is delivering.

Locky: And then secondly, a key one would be, well, if the program was gone, would customers miss it?

Locky: And that’s really important.

Locky: So, and that’s what success looks like.

Locky: So if you were to remove it, I’d want customers reaching out and saying, well, where has it gone?

Locky: What’s happened to it?

Locky: So that is a key success metric that I base our programs off.

Carly: That’s such a great one that we will wrap up on.

Carly: And so thank you so much for your time.

Carly: But I love that very clear, easy measurement tool.

Carly: If we remove it, if we remove it, will they complain?

Carly: It’s actually quite simple, but super powerful.

Locky: Definitely, definitely.

Locky: And one that you continually think about, because really the importance of it is your customer and effectively, if customers won’t miss it, what’s the role of the program?

Carly: That’s our outtake, I believe, Locky.

Locky: Yeah.

Locky: Thank you.

Carly: It’s been so great to chat with you professionally and around your program.

Carly: So it’s such a big thanks.

Carly: And I love our wrap up.

Carly: That’s good.

Locky: Thank you so much, Carly, for having me.

Carly: Anytime.

Paula: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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