Best of the Back Catalogue: The British Airways Club (#760)

PAULA: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.

PAULA: So today, I am delighted to be recording quite a different version of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: As you know, I’m passionate about global voices of loyalty and across every different type of sector.

PAULA: So, we’ve talked about telco loyalty, we’ve talked about lots of different verticals.

PAULA: But today, actually, we’re going back to a real core passion of mine, and some areas actually that I’ve spent a lot of time professionally in, and that’s the world of airline loyalty.

PAULA: So, I myself worked with British Airways for about five years out here in the Middle East, and particularly always loved watching the work of the Executive Club.

PAULA: So today, I am absolutely thrilled that I’m going to be chatting to Niall Rooney, who is the Manager for Loyalty at British Airways, and essentially is responsible for the Executive Club and all of the loyalty activity within British Airways.

PAULA: So, it’s going to be a super exciting conversation, and as well as the listeners on Let’s Talk Loyalty, we’re actually going to be working with a partner website as well, which is simpleflying.com.

PAULA: So, if anyone hasn’t seen that website, it’s absolutely phenomenal if you’re interested in airline news, up-to-date information, and that again is a global website with a really fascinating insight into what’s happening day-to-day in this fabulously exciting industry.

PAULA: So, we’re going to get into a conversation about this.

PAULA: So, I’m going to start first of all by welcoming Niall Rooney to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

NIALL ROONEY : Good morning.

NIALL ROONEY : How are you?

PAULA: It’s great to talk to you, Niall.

PAULA: How are you doing?

NIALL ROONEY : Not bad at all.

NIALL ROONEY : Thanks.

PAULA: Great.

PAULA: Great.

PAULA: Now, my listeners are going to think I’m biased first of all, Niall, because I had somebody else from Dublin last week on the show.

PAULA: So, pure coincidence.

PAULA: And I will definitely say we’re trying to be very global.

PAULA: And yet I still feel so happy when I have a fellow Irishman on the line.

PAULA: So that’s brilliant.

PAULA: So in terms of your credentials, actually, Niall, I know you’ve done, I think, about 12 years in the airline industry overall with a number of different airlines and seven years now with British Airways.

PAULA: Am I right?

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, that’s correct.

NIALL ROONEY : So I started, I suppose, born and raised in Dublin, as you know, and the accent will give it away.

NIALL ROONEY : But I then moved to France when I was 18 and lived there for six years, went to uni there, and then moved to the UK then, and started my career in airline, so worked in Ryanair for three and a half years, then moved up to Leeds, worked for Jet 2, then came back down south, and I’ve been working for, started with BMI actually, and then when BMI was acquired, I moved over to BA and have been there since.

PAULA: Amazing, amazing.

PAULA: And yes, I’m being such, such diverse airlines to work for.

PAULA: And again, from our home city, Ryanair is a very different style of airline.

PAULA: I can’t imagine them ever doing anything at the loyalty space, but we’ll wait and see.

PAULA: I know they’ve got various things going on, but British Airways certainly, when I worked with the airline, had the tagline of the world’s favorite airline.

PAULA: I know that’s not used as part of the branding anymore, but certainly for me, on a personal level, it’s still something that I really admire.

PAULA: And I think the whole loyalty industry really, dates back to airline loyalty because the stakes were so high.

PAULA: So when we get into talking about this, I think, as you know, I tend to start with the loyalty statistic because I want listeners, and that’s both on the aviation side and just within the loyalty industry.

PAULA: I love to get a sense of what is it about loyalty that really impresses you, Niall?

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, and I suppose it’s worth pointing that I’m quite new to the loyalty area.

NIALL ROONEY : So I started this role in March.

PAULA: Okay.

NIALL ROONEY : And previous to that, my background was commercial.

NIALL ROONEY : So I worked in sales and marketing in Ryanair initially, then moved on to ancillaries.

NIALL ROONEY : I was doing ancillaries for several years through a couple of airlines, and then moved into revenue management in BA.

NIALL ROONEY : And then I meet over to the customer directorate, which is very different.

NIALL ROONEY : I suppose beforehand, it was all about generating revenue.

NIALL ROONEY : And then the customer directorate, it was about spending it on the customer experience.

NIALL ROONEY : I managed ground experience.

NIALL ROONEY : A lot of that was to do with lounges, which are obviously a key attribute, which is appreciated by our loyal customers.

NIALL ROONEY : Because it’s not just those flying in premium cabins, but also those with gold and silver cards within BA.

NIALL ROONEY : So I suppose that I had to change my mindset a lot.

NIALL ROONEY : And then I moved from ground experience into loyalty, which is still within the customer directorate, but it also has a huge commercial focus.

NIALL ROONEY : I won’t give the stats within BA, but you can imagine a large proportion of our customers are members.

NIALL ROONEY : And the revenue that comes from that proportion overindexes in comparison to the volume, because they tend to spend more, which is a key KPI of ours, of course.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: And I love that, Niall, because at the end of the day, we are all in business.

PAULA: And again, nobody, we can’t obviously talk about detailed figures, but at the end of the day, I’ve always loved about loyalty, that it is about really having the right relationships with the right people and making sure that they feel that.

PAULA: So yes, Ancillaries is very commercial and we all love that in terms of earning, but actually let’s have that mindset of giving back and looking after them.

PAULA: So it’s probably a much nicer place to be for you on the airline side.

PAULA: Is that how it feels?

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, absolutely.

NIALL ROONEY : I mean, I’ll be perfectly honest, when I was in Ancillaries, the first thing I saw was, oh, I can’t believe you give these things away to gold and silver card holders.

NIALL ROONEY : Do you know how much I could sell it for?

NIALL ROONEY : But now, obviously, I’m in the other camp, but you still have to demonstrate that return.

NIALL ROONEY : And as you say, it’s a business.

NIALL ROONEY : So, if we want to…

NIALL ROONEY : Anything we give away in brackets is, or in quotes, is…

NIALL ROONEY : We have to demonstrate a return on it.

NIALL ROONEY : And loyalty does do that.

NIALL ROONEY : It’s quite easy to demonstrate a correlation between the investment made and then the return that you receive.

NIALL ROONEY : But there is a requirement of belief there as well, that if you treat customer as well, and if you give them benefits, et cetera, that they will be loyal.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: I’d love to ask Niall specifically about, I suppose, trends in loyalty.

PAULA: So the kind of things that are happening, again, you’ve got years of experience.

PAULA: I’m sure there’s massive evolution over that period of time.

PAULA: So what kind of trends are you seeing at the moment in airline loyalty?

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, I suppose we did a piece of work recently with an innovation agency called Happen, looking at some of the things we should be doing or something we should be moving towards.

NIALL ROONEY : And I suppose it’s quite well known within British Airways and in other airlines what other airlines are doing.

NIALL ROONEY : It comes to front of mind.

NIALL ROONEY : What we did with the agency and the reason for going out to the agency was to look at what else is out there and what could we then pull into our programme or for future developments.

NIALL ROONEY : And I think there’s a few key trends and there’s a few people who I think are doing this really well.

NIALL ROONEY : And I’d say more of it’s outside of the airline industry rather than inside.

NIALL ROONEY : So I think one trend is simplicity.

NIALL ROONEY : The airline programmes have been around a long time and they have developed complexity over that time.

NIALL ROONEY : So it’s not particularly straightforward.

NIALL ROONEY : So I think we can learn from others.

NIALL ROONEY : Boots, for example, is very straightforward in terms of how you earn, but that’s been around quite a while.

NIALL ROONEY : But I think it’s simplicity is one of its strengths.

NIALL ROONEY : Not that I go there that often, but Sephora is quite a simple tier structure with three tiers.

NIALL ROONEY : I think the lifestyle integration is really good as well.

NIALL ROONEY : And I think this is where we have a real strength.

NIALL ROONEY : So it’s not just about your flying and your travels, but also integrating your lifestyle into it.

NIALL ROONEY : So the credit cards that we have in several different countries are very, very powerful.

NIALL ROONEY : The fact that in your daily life, you can earn avios and that can then contribute to you coming back to BA is very, very powerful.

NIALL ROONEY : And also we have the e-store where you can earn avios.

NIALL ROONEY : So I bought, I spent 100 quid in Gap at the weekend and they had an offer of 20 avios per pound, which is incredible because that’s almost 2,000 avios.

NIALL ROONEY : And I mean, that can be 10 pounds, two times 10 pounds if you knock it off a short haul, two short haul flights.

NIALL ROONEY : So that’s really, really powerful.

NIALL ROONEY : It’s like 20 pounds back for 100 pounds that you’re going to spend anyway.

NIALL ROONEY : So I think we do that really well.

NIALL ROONEY : Surprise and delight, we’re getting a lot better at.

NIALL ROONEY : We have, so we integrate with the crew, for example.

PAULA: Okay.

NIALL ROONEY : So that they can welcome, so they have the information about members on board and they can welcome back, whether it be gold card holders, silver card holders, et cetera.

NIALL ROONEY : I think someone who’s doing that really well outside is Pret A Manger, where they often surprise and delight with free coffee if you’re a regular.

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PAULA: So Niall, one of my favourite questions again, just from an education perspective for listeners is really to get, you know, a key statistic in terms of what you love about loyalty or what’s going on in loyalty that you’ve learned.

PAULA: So tell me, what is your favourite loyalty statistic?

NIALL ROONEY : Yes, so it’s a really good question.

NIALL ROONEY : I have a lot to think about as well as a lot of figures out there.

NIALL ROONEY : There is an Idea Works company do a report every year.

NIALL ROONEY : They do a few reports on ancillary revenue and loyalty, but they do an annual reward seat availability survey, where they look at the availability of reward seats.

NIALL ROONEY : And we’re very proud this year, because the BA had the highest increase of reward availability.

NIALL ROONEY : It increased by 17.9 points to 80%, which is fantastic progress.

NIALL ROONEY : So, and it’s testament to all the work that’s been happening over the last couple of years.

NIALL ROONEY : Because everyone says it in all kinds of programs.

NIALL ROONEY : It’s relatively easy to accumulate points and avios in our case.

NIALL ROONEY : But people want to be able to spend them.

NIALL ROONEY : And we’ve increased the ways that people can spend them.

NIALL ROONEY : So we’ve increased a lot of availability, and it’s good that the report has shown that.

NIALL ROONEY : And again, that’s investment.

NIALL ROONEY : You know, we have a great relationship with our Revenue Management Department.

NIALL ROONEY : Because they are true believers in loyalty.

NIALL ROONEY : They see when people fly with us continuously, and then they get the reward, the reward flights that they deserve, that they then come back for more.

NIALL ROONEY : And that’s really, really powerful.

PAULA: Yeah.

NIALL ROONEY : And a lot of our focus in the short to medium term is increasing availability.

NIALL ROONEY : So, and increasing the ways that you can pay for other products using Abios as well.

NIALL ROONEY : So, for example, when we launched Buy On Board on short haul, we opened the opportunity for people to pay with Abios as well as with their credit card.

NIALL ROONEY : So, it gives people options.

NIALL ROONEY : I mentioned earlier on a short haul flight, you can, for 1,000 Abios, you can knock 10 pounds off your flight.

NIALL ROONEY : Now, some of the purists out there, the hobbyists, will know that that’s really good value per Abios.

PAULA: Okay.

NIALL ROONEY : And we have Reward Flight Saver, which is a product which for usually around 35 pound and 9,000 Abios on a short haul flight, you’re able to get a short haul flight.

NIALL ROONEY : But we’ve increased the opportunities there.

NIALL ROONEY : So we’ve increased the amount of Abios, but brought the price down to one pound.

NIALL ROONEY : Again, the purists would see that the best value per Abios is to take the 35 pound option.

NIALL ROONEY : But we’ve given the option to people because people have healthy balances and they’re happy to save 34 pound and pay one pound and pay a bit more Abios.

NIALL ROONEY : So it’s basically putting options out there and to allow people to use their Abios.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: And I love, it’s actually music to my ears, Niall, because again, in years gone by, it might have been, oh yeah, we’ll give all of these rewards to people and they might never get the opportunity to use them.

PAULA: But it’s fabulous to hear that there is so much more availability.

PAULA: So that if I have, as you said, a healthy balance, there are loads of ways to use them.

PAULA: So good to hear the Revenue Management Colleagues are on board and they’ve been completely bought into the whole industry.

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, and even touching on a previous role, you could now use your Avios to pay for seating and baggage, which is fantastic.

PAULA: Super, yeah.

PAULA: And not all listeners might have heard the term Avios.

PAULA: I can’t remember how long it’s been around, but my understanding is Avios is the term used for the points currency, mainly because of the incredible number of airlines within the International Airline Group that British Airways is a part of.

PAULA: Am I right?

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, so Avios, excuse me for not explaining, it’s the currency which you collect when you book flights, when you buy products with VA.

NIALL ROONEY : But also, as I mentioned before, you use the credit card, you make purchases through the eStore.

NIALL ROONEY : That’s how you can earn Avios.

NIALL ROONEY : And then you can burn Avios, obviously, through our reward flights, and as I said, with our buy and board product on Shorthall, and also through for ancillary products now, baggage and seating.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: And I did a little bit of work with Avios in Ireland, I think I mentioned as well, Niall, and that was probably three or four years ago, when Aer Lingus became part of the International Airline Group.

PAULA: So again, fabulous to see that that brand is really getting much more recognition.

PAULA: And even what I loved at the time was, all of the other airlines around the world.

PAULA: So, you mentioned Japan, I know Iberia, and again, you’ll know better than me, there’s so many airlines that Avios are available to redeem seats on, as well as British Airways itself.

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, so there’s obviously the airlines within our group.

NIALL ROONEY : So it’s a common currency across that.

NIALL ROONEY : So you can earn Avios across the other carriers when you book directly with them.

NIALL ROONEY : But also you earn Avios and and tier points as well for your stages if you book with our One World Partners.

NIALL ROONEY : And then there’s opportunities to redeem with them as well.

NIALL ROONEY : So the breadth is really astounding.

PAULA: Yeah, I mean, in terms of global power and impact, I mean, the executive club must be one of the biggest in the world.

NIALL ROONEY : Yes, we don’t divulge the stats, but the volumes are…

NIALL ROONEY : Spectacular.

NIALL ROONEY : I suppose when you’re in a big company like this, you do see volumes and…

PAULA: Yeah.

NIALL ROONEY : And whether it be passenger volumes, scale.

NIALL ROONEY : And with that comes complexity as well.

NIALL ROONEY : We’ve got a complex operation.

NIALL ROONEY : We’ve got members all over the world.

NIALL ROONEY : It’s not just about the benefits that are attributed to that when they fly, but there’s also an operation here.

NIALL ROONEY : We’ve got fulfillment.

NIALL ROONEY : We’ve got, obviously, customers getting in contact.

NIALL ROONEY : We’re dealing with several jurisdictions.

NIALL ROONEY : Laws can change from one to another.

NIALL ROONEY : So it’s a complex operation.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: And again, I remember the mindset again in my own British Airways days is that it’s a currency.

PAULA: It’s like a bank balance, and that’s how you have to protect your customers’ assets.

PAULA: So certainly, as I can imagine, the logistics around delivering that on a global scale.

NIALL ROONEY : Oh, absolutely.

NIALL ROONEY : And as you say, it is a currency, and that then opens up to areas such as fraud, for example, which obviously we have a department internally who deals with that.

NIALL ROONEY : But it’s just, it’s valuable.

NIALL ROONEY : It’s very, very valuable.

NIALL ROONEY : So it can be used in several different ways.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: So I love that statistic then, Niall, in terms of the increase focused on redemption.

PAULA: It gives me a lot of joy to hear that the industry and the whole airline has bought into all of that.

PAULA: So tell us then, what else is happening in the executive club at the moment?

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, I suppose on the short to medium term, there’s a lot happening in the redemption space.

NIALL ROONEY : I mean, that’s a key focus area.

NIALL ROONEY : That’s what customers say that they want is, they’re able to earn avias.

NIALL ROONEY : They want to be able to burn in more and more ways.

NIALL ROONEY : And we’ve made great progress in that space recently.

NIALL ROONEY : We’ve got, in the longer term, I suppose it’s not necessarily as exciting, but there’s a lot of technology and changes going on.

NIALL ROONEY : Platform, so there’s a loyalty platform for the across the group.

NIALL ROONEY : Okay.

NIALL ROONEY : Across IAG group, which is being developed at the moment.

NIALL ROONEY : And that will open the gate then for other products that will be able to launch across carrier.

NIALL ROONEY : Then in terms of the benefits that customers and customers and members appreciate.

NIALL ROONEY : There’s a lot going on in the lounge space.

NIALL ROONEY : So that touches on my previous role, which was a lot of focus on lounge development.

NIALL ROONEY : So last week, or just this weekend, actually we opened a brand new lounge in Geneva.

PAULA: Lovely.

NIALL ROONEY : And that, they take quite a while to, between analyzing a requirement for a lounge and actually opening the front door can take 18, 20 months.

NIALL ROONEY : So I started that process, but it was great to see that it delivered.

PAULA: Yeah.

NIALL ROONEY : And this week, as you can imagine, Geneva is a huge route for us.

NIALL ROONEY : And also there’s a lot of members are on that route.

NIALL ROONEY : It’s a very high frequency route.

NIALL ROONEY : And it’s also a lovely mixture of business and leisure.

NIALL ROONEY : So it’s obviously an important financial hub, or linking two important financial hubs, but also the ski season there.

NIALL ROONEY : That’s when people like to redeem their avios.

NIALL ROONEY : And of course, after a long week on the slopes, they like to go in for a drink.

NIALL ROONEY : And the week before last, we opened a new lounge in Johannesburg as well.

NIALL ROONEY : And that’s absolutely fantastic.

NIALL ROONEY : Again, it’s another great route.

NIALL ROONEY : BA’s been flying there for years.

NIALL ROONEY : It’s a real historical link.

NIALL ROONEY : And they tend to be night flights.

NIALL ROONEY : So people like to go into the lounge, have a bite to eat, and then either have a bit more to eat on board or go straight to sleep, because it’s an overnight flight.

NIALL ROONEY : And there’s a really, really good offering down there.

PAULA: Fantastic.

NIALL ROONEY : So yeah, there’s a good bit of strategic stuff that’s going on as well.

NIALL ROONEY : Looking at the benefits that we have per tiers in the future, but it’s relatively early stages, and it’s not necessarily something we can go into a great amount of detail.

NIALL ROONEY : There’s a lot happening in the product areas.

NIALL ROONEY : So as I say, the lounges, but also on the ground in terms of meet and greet for some of our goal card holders, making sure that we’re optimized in terms of the check-in spaces.

NIALL ROONEY : We’ve changed the way we do group boarding recently as well to make it much more straightforward and to make sure that the most loyal customers are getting the priority that they deserve and they expect.

PAULA: Brilliant.

PAULA: And you’ve certainly mentioned two of my favorite countries there, Niall.

PAULA: So Switzerland and South Africa.

PAULA: My goodness, you know, it’s all so glamorous.

PAULA: We love it.

PAULA: Brilliant, brilliant.

PAULA: And to your point about obviously, you know, there is obviously so much always going on with them, a loyalty program of the scale that you manage.

PAULA: So, you know, I’d love like in 12 months time to think that we could come back and sit down again and have a similar conversation and look at all of the latest executive club developments, just because I can imagine the sheer breath of what you’re working on.

PAULA: So super exciting to stay in touch with that long term, hopefully.

NIALL ROONEY : Absolutely.

NIALL ROONEY : It could be like a little end of year review we could have.

PAULA: There you go.

PAULA: We’re just we’re just talk loyalty all the time.

PAULA: Brilliant.

PAULA: And I’d love to just talk about a few other areas, Niall.

PAULA: And what do you think, I suppose, are the unique selling points?

PAULA: I loved what you said again earlier about going out and looking at other industries, for example, and the airline industry, by its very nature, is super competitive.

PAULA: So clearly a lot of focus goes on, you know, how could the Executive Club be, you know, a unique loyalty program that people really want to be a member of?

PAULA: So tell us a bit about your USPs.

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, I think the size of the program and that married up with the size of our network really gives a lot of debt to members, which they may not necessarily get with other carriers and the opportunities that come with that are in terms of the ability to earn ABIOS and also earn their tier points because they can do so much of their flying with us, not to be complacent because it’s extremely competitive, so we keep a constant eye on the competition, make sure that we’re delivering.

NIALL ROONEY : So I think that depth gives people the opportunity to earn those status and ABIOS, but also gives great opportunities in terms of spending as well.

NIALL ROONEY : So we get a lot of people who, week in, week out, they’re flying with us on business, and then their family holiday comes, and you’re telling your partner and kids, you’re able to show, this is the holiday we’re getting.

NIALL ROONEY : You know the way you don’t see me every couple of weeks because I’m traveling, but here’s some of the benefit that you can share with the family.

NIALL ROONEY : So the debt there really helps with that.

NIALL ROONEY : And the benefits of the program are very rich.

NIALL ROONEY : You know, if you get to silver status, for example, which requires 600 tier points, you have access to our business class lounges whenever you fly, regardless of what cabin you’re flying in.

NIALL ROONEY : So that regular loyalty is really rewarded.

NIALL ROONEY : And then if you get to gold status, which is 1500 tier points, which is a big jump from silver.

NIALL ROONEY : Don’t get me wrong.

PAULA: That’s why it’s called gold.

NIALL ROONEY : And we have in Heathrow, we have what we call the first lounge, which is reserved exclusively for gold card holders.

NIALL ROONEY : And to access that, we have the first wing, which is a dedicated check-in and security area for gold card holders.

NIALL ROONEY : And it leads directly into the lounge in T5.

NIALL ROONEY : And that’s an amazing time saver for gold card holders.

NIALL ROONEY : Because some really value, well, of course, most people value their time, but they really value their time.

NIALL ROONEY : And that really gives them an opportunity to go straight through and not have to waste time walking around the terminal.

NIALL ROONEY : So the product there is really excellent.

NIALL ROONEY : And then I suppose when they’re then going to the boarding gate, your loyalty is rewarded in terms of the priority you have when boarding the aircraft.

NIALL ROONEY : And again, that is a slick operation that we have.

NIALL ROONEY : It could be more consistent.

NIALL ROONEY : You know, we can get our hands around it in Heathrow.

NIALL ROONEY : And sometimes down route, it’s not necessarily, you don’t have the space for it.

NIALL ROONEY : And so it’s not as easy to deliver.

NIALL ROONEY : But a huge, huge amount of work is there, has been done there to make it as consistent as possible.

NIALL ROONEY : So they’re really, really, I think in terms of the program, it’s very rich.

NIALL ROONEY : And then in terms of the product you then have access to, which may make up your whole executive club experience.

NIALL ROONEY : I think it’s a rich program.

PAULA: Brilliant.

PAULA: And one, just on a practical note, Niall, do you still issue physical plastic cards to all your members, or is it all digital, or what way are you approaching that?

NIALL ROONEY : Yes, we deliver cards and bag tags to gold, silver and bronze card holders.

NIALL ROONEY : We are looking at it.

NIALL ROONEY : We haven’t released anything yet, but we are looking at it to see if we, because you can just use your app, for example, and your executive club status is on your boarding pass, whether that be a physical boarding pass or on your phone.

NIALL ROONEY : So it is something we’re reviewing, but no news on that yet.

PAULA: Okay, great.

PAULA: Yeah, I want to watch and for our next conversation.

PAULA: Great.

PAULA: So just the last couple of questions then, I suppose.

PAULA: Just the overall emotional piece, I loved what you talked about there in terms of the family.

PAULA: And I can only imagine people who fly so extensively to bring the family on a holiday as a reward and for everyone to enjoy that together is lovely.

PAULA: And one of the things that pretty much everyone that we’ve talked to on the show has said is, you know, loyalty is moving beyond transactions.

PAULA: And with the best will in the world, you know, any points currency is purely a transaction.

PAULA: That’s the reality.

PAULA: So it really sounds like there’s a lot of focus on, you know, what are the emotional benefits of being a member with the executive club?

PAULA: So is that fair to say?

PAULA: Are you focused on the emotional side as well?

NIALL ROONEY : Oh, absolutely.

NIALL ROONEY : And I suppose I was even taken aback by how status has a link to people’s emotion.

NIALL ROONEY : You know, people are very proud of the, and rightly so, but I was surprised to what extent people are so proud of the status that they achieve.

NIALL ROONEY : It’s like we recognize it’s not easy.

NIALL ROONEY : You know, we want people to be loyal.

NIALL ROONEY : And when they do that, when they achieve that, they’re very proud to show their card, display their card on their, whether it’s on their app or it’s on their bag tag, et cetera.

NIALL ROONEY : And their expectations go with that, which is absolutely right.

NIALL ROONEY : You know, they’re loyal customers.

NIALL ROONEY : They know our products sometimes better than ourselves.

NIALL ROONEY : And yeah, they have a real emotional link.

NIALL ROONEY : Again, the program’s been around 24 years, so a lot of people have been, that can represent a big part of people’s careers.

NIALL ROONEY : And I touched on families there as well.

NIALL ROONEY : And some people, if you come from one country and, I don’t know, your parents come from another, it’s part of your identity.

NIALL ROONEY : You’re growing up traveling.

NIALL ROONEY : And a lot of that happens on BA, thankfully.

NIALL ROONEY : And that’s part of their identity.

NIALL ROONEY : We have children who are silver card holders, gold card holders.

NIALL ROONEY : So it’s absolutely incredible.

NIALL ROONEY : And it’s important that we make sure that they’re valued as part of that.

NIALL ROONEY : Because it’s what they’re gonna be traveling.

NIALL ROONEY : Once they get to the later stage in life, they’re going to be traveling as well.

NIALL ROONEY : And they have more options than ever.

NIALL ROONEY : So if we can plant the seeds of that kind of positiveness early on, it goes a long way.

PAULA: And there’s very few industries clearly that can really drive lifelong loyalty the way an airline can.

PAULA: And I had never thought about children as silver card holders.

PAULA: That must be, I can imagine the amount of thinking that that separately requires in terms of, you know, just general segmentation and an approach and mindset to really take care of their very unique needs.

NIALL ROONEY : Yes.

NIALL ROONEY : Oh, yeah, yeah.

NIALL ROONEY : No, it’s…

NIALL ROONEY : And they grow up with high expectations.

NIALL ROONEY : So we need to continuously deliver on that.

PAULA: To live up to that.

PAULA: Brilliant.

PAULA: Brilliant.

PAULA: So the last one then from my side, Niall, is really to get a sense of how you stay up to date with what’s going on in what is perhaps one of the fastest moving industries.

PAULA: Actually, that’s always what I loved about working with BA.

PAULA: You know, just how much fun it was.

PAULA: But that does mean change.

PAULA: And there’s a lot going on.

PAULA: So how do you stay up to date and educated, particularly given that you’re only, I think, now, you said six months in the loyalty industry?

NIALL ROONEY : Yeah, so I started in March, so I’m fairly new to loyalty.

NIALL ROONEY : And I suppose I consider myself relatively general, a generalist in terms of management.

NIALL ROONEY : I’ve gone from a few different things.

NIALL ROONEY : So I don’t know if I’ll ever be an expert on loyalty.

NIALL ROONEY : That’s going to take a while.

NIALL ROONEY : But there’s obviously a lot out there.

NIALL ROONEY : There’s a lot of podcasts.

NIALL ROONEY : There’s a lot of literature.

NIALL ROONEY : There’s a lot of forums, et cetera.

NIALL ROONEY : And I’d say really what I depend on here is the people in my team, because they’re experts in loyalty.

PAULA: Great.

NIALL ROONEY : So some very varying levels of experience.

NIALL ROONEY : So some have been in VA quite a while.

NIALL ROONEY : Some have come very recently, but from other sectors and from loyalty in other sectors as well.

NIALL ROONEY : I really, really depend on them.

NIALL ROONEY : And what I hope to bring to the, or what I try to bring to the table is then a structure in terms of getting things done, et cetera.

NIALL ROONEY : Great.

NIALL ROONEY : Just like in my last job was around lounges, I kind of had to learn about upholsteries and cushions and different materials and building processes.

NIALL ROONEY : Here, it’s about some of the underlying stuff is similar to other roles in terms of you’ve got IT challenges.

NIALL ROONEY : You need to work out how to get projects delivered.

NIALL ROONEY : That’s the same across, but there’s a definite nuance here.

NIALL ROONEY : And that really involves talking to people, looking at the forums, looking at the insights.

NIALL ROONEY : We’ve got very, very rich insights in terms of the customer analytics that we have to see.

NIALL ROONEY : And because it’s been around for years as well, we’ve got great depth in data.

NIALL ROONEY : We can see how people have changed over time.

NIALL ROONEY : And so the internal analysis is important.

NIALL ROONEY : And as I said recently, we reached out to an innovation agency to get some of that external thinking as well.

NIALL ROONEY : Because I suppose if you can be guilty sometimes of looking internally, whether that be within the company, but also within the industry.

NIALL ROONEY : That really helped to go outside.

PAULA: Yeah, and I love that.

PAULA: And again, it’s a great mindset to know that the company is so committed to loyalty that you’re going out and taking the time and investing in bringing those insights into the business.

PAULA: So yeah, I think there’s a lesson for us all.

PAULA: And as a consultant, obviously, my job is literally to make sure that I’m eyes open and listening to what’s going on.

PAULA: So I’ll definitely check out the innovation guys.

PAULA: So that’s all I wanted to cover from my side, Niall.

PAULA: Was there anything else that you wanted to mention from the Executive Club?

NIALL ROONEY : No, I think we covered off a lot there.

NIALL ROONEY : So yeah, that’s pretty comprehensive.

PAULA: Super conversation.

PAULA: Amazing.

PAULA: So yeah, I guess in closing then Niall, for me, I guess, first of all, thank you so much for your time.

PAULA: I know there’s a huge amount going on and you’re up early this morning to get this recording done with me.

PAULA: So I really appreciate that.

PAULA: And separately, I also want to just acknowledge Aaron Rice, actually, who, as you know, is the founder of Simple Flying.

PAULA: So again, a lot of people listening to this podcast are really excited about British Airways, Executive Club and everything to do with airline.

PAULA: So I just wanted to thank Aaron.

PAULA: So yeah, that’s it from me.

PAULA: And just want to say thanks a million for talking to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

NIALL ROONEY : Thank you very much.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketeer Group, operating the Wise Marketeer and Loyalty Academy.

PAULA: For nearly 25 years, the Wise Marketer is the industry’s longest serving publication and source for news, information and insights, which now includes its own branded industry research, insights and advice.

PAULA: For global coverage of customer engagement and loyalty, check out thewisemarketer.com and become a Wiser Marketer member or subscriber.

PAULA: The Loyalty Academy sets a global industry standard for loyalty education, with its Certified Loyalty Marketing Professional or CLMP designation, which has created a community of more than 1,200 marketing executives and professionals across more than 50 countries.

PAULA: Learn more about global loyalty education for individuals or corporate training at loyaltyacademy.org.

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