How ButcherBox Built an Award-Winning Loyalty Program (#773)

PAULA: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

PAULA: Today’s episode is part of the Wiser Loyalty podcast series and is hosted by Bill Hanifin, Chief Executive Officer of Wise Marketer Group.

PAULA: Wise Marketer Group is an education, advisory and research and media service company, providing resources for loyalty marketers through three business offerings.

PAULA: A global leader in loyalty education through the Loyalty Academy platform, which offers the certified loyalty marketing professional or CLMP designation.

PAULA: A trusted advisor through its advisory and research services supporting loyalty brands.

PAULA: And a leading source of news, information and insights through the Wise Marketer digital publication.

PAULA: I hope you enjoyed this episode brought to you by Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV in partnership with Wise Marketer Group.

BILL HANIFIN: Welcome, everyone.

BILL HANIFIN: I’m Bill Hanifin, and we’re here at the Wiser Loyalty Podcast, which is a series produced in partnership with Let’s Talk Loyalty and the Wise Marketer.

BILL HANIFIN: And we bring you interviews with C-level executives that are transforming strategy and the practical marketing strategies to generate real results.

BILL HANIFIN: So our guest today is Reba Hatcher, whose chief commercial officer at ButcherBox.

BILL HANIFIN: Reba, how are you?

BILL HANIFIN: Good.

REBA HATCHER: Good.

REBA HATCHER: How are you doing, Bill?

BILL HANIFIN: We’re doing great.

BILL HANIFIN: So the best thing about having a neat, polished interview is that nobody knows the journey that we both took to get here.

BILL HANIFIN: But I’m very appreciative that you’re here and thanks for giving us some of your time.

REBA HATCHER: Of course.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, happy to.

REBA HATCHER: Always excited to talk about loyalty.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah, it’s good.

BILL HANIFIN: And ButcherBox.

BILL HANIFIN: ButcherBox is such a great story.

BILL HANIFIN: So I understand a few things to share, and you’re going to fill in the blanks, and then we’ll talk through some different things.

BILL HANIFIN: But ButcherBox was launched in 2015, to my understanding, and it set out to do something deceptively simple, but incredibly powerful, and that is to deliver high-quality, humanely raised meat and seafood directly to consumers.

BILL HANIFIN: And people that were tired of compromising.

BILL HANIFIN: Now they were tired of compromising at the grocery store.

BILL HANIFIN: They wanted something a notch better.

BILL HANIFIN: And so here you are a decade later, as a company that has really become one of the central options of the American grocery shopping experience.

BILL HANIFIN: Your people are thinking about, where do I get my protein?

BILL HANIFIN: I want it to be quality.

BILL HANIFIN: And so there you are, ready to serve.

BILL HANIFIN: And the commitment to customer loyalty is core to your brand.

BILL HANIFIN: And I know you launched something called Sizzle Society about 18 months ago.

BILL HANIFIN: It’s registered some pretty amazing results.

BILL HANIFIN: I’ll let you share more, but I’ll just tease it out that there’s like a 200% ROI.

BILL HANIFIN: There’s near universal opt-in, just a great experience.

BILL HANIFIN: There’s some neat things like the chef’s table dinner series that we want to talk about.

BILL HANIFIN: So a lot of things involved is it’s not your typical loyalty program, right?

BILL HANIFIN: Not by a long shot.

BILL HANIFIN: So the question I’m hoping that we can really explore is what does loyalty look like for a brand, whose business is one, subscription-based, and also built around reliability and quality?

BILL HANIFIN: So you’ve been with ButcherBox just about from the beginning, the early days, I’ll let you tell your story.

BILL HANIFIN: You’ve led the development of the Sizzle Society from the concept to launch, and you bring a really rare combination of customer obsession, of commercial rigor, and an instinct for what makes subscribers stay, and that is a difficult task.

BILL HANIFIN: So in this conversation, we’re going to dig into how you designed the program, what your key objectives were, what you had in mind, how you managed to map a loyalty program designed to a subscription business, and have those rhythms match up.

BILL HANIFIN: We’re also going to talk about how you’ve gone beyond the transactional level and are doing much more from an experiential standpoint, which is absolutely fascinating to me when I think about that you’ve got to direct your consumer business.

BILL HANIFIN: Although now with some stores, we’ll talk about that too.

BILL HANIFIN: You’ve probably watched a few Let’s Talk Loyalty podcasts, I would think, and so you probably know that Carla loves to ask people about what they like to read.

BILL HANIFIN: She’ll ask, what’s your favorite or most recently read non-fiction book?

BILL HANIFIN: I was wondering if you had one that you could share.

REBA HATCHER: Yes, it’s Walk Through Fire by Sheila Johnson, is my most favorite that I’ve read recently.

REBA HATCHER: I read it in the last six months.

REBA HATCHER: It’s by the co-founder of BET Television Networks, and also founded an amazing five-star resort down in Middleburg, Virginia that I got to go visit.

REBA HATCHER: Really awesome book talking about trials and tribulations and being able to start something that was brand new to market.

REBA HATCHER: I think a lot about the tenacity it takes to do something that is new and go through that and build it and see it to fruition.

REBA HATCHER: Great book, highly recommend.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s interesting.

BILL HANIFIN: We’ll make sure and put it in the show notes so people could find it.

BILL HANIFIN: But thanks.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s a good one.

BILL HANIFIN: Tell us a little bit about the origin story.

BILL HANIFIN: You’ve been here at ButcherBox since the very beginning.

BILL HANIFIN: Maybe if there’s some people out there that are just discovering the brand, give us some background on what ButcherBox is all about and why it’s resonated so strongly with the subscriber model.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah.

REBA HATCHER: ButcherBox started back in 2015.

REBA HATCHER: Back in 2015, there were not a lot of food subscription businesses.

REBA HATCHER: There were probably two main ones that come to everyone’s mind.

REBA HATCHER: Then there was us and we were the only ones selling Frozen, and we were the only ones selling it in this just for meat and seafood way.

REBA HATCHER: But when we started, our CEO had actually kind of stumbled upon this need that existed.

REBA HATCHER: He was looking for a high quality grass-fed beef, and he bought a cow share, and then he was like, I got to split up this cow share, because for those who are familiar with living in Massachusetts, especially if you live close to the city, there’s not a lot of room to be storing a cow share.

REBA HATCHER: So he split up this cow share, and one of his friends said, wow, it would be great if this could get delivered to my house.

REBA HATCHER: And he said, hmm, that’s interesting.

REBA HATCHER: And so he had begun this journey because his wife has an autoimmune disease.

REBA HATCHER: And so that was the reason he was looking for the product.

REBA HATCHER: But what came about was that many people were actually looking for this product.

REBA HATCHER: And so ButcherBox actually launched on a Kickstarter, if you can believe it, most successful food Kickstarter ever, which is pretty awesome.

REBA HATCHER: But around the same time, so within the same week or so, there was a Consumer Reports magazine that was published that actually had why you should eat grass-fed beef.

REBA HATCHER: And so there was this perfect synergy and timing in the market of it was coming into people’s zeitgeist and paleo and keto were coming to the forefront.

REBA HATCHER: Influencers, before we called them influencers, we’re talking about how to eat healthy.

REBA HATCHER: This was really early in the stage of what that looked like.

REBA HATCHER: And so for ButcherBox coming into the market at that time, I think it was the perfect timing, but also a great product market set because the product is really high quality.

REBA HATCHER: And so after that point, I think it’s kind of all history, but it’s amazing what can start when you really just look at what consumers need.

REBA HATCHER: And we created this kind of amazing thing called the custom box where you can just get six cuts in your box for one price, and that wasn’t being done before.

REBA HATCHER: And so I think what resonated with people was that they were tired of going to the grocery store and being tricked by a lot of the labels or feeling like they didn’t know the price or feeling like everything was like nickel and dimed.

REBA HATCHER: And I think that ButcherBox made it incredibly simple for people to be able to choose a high-quality option and have it come right to their door.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s one of the challenges of trying to eat well, I think, is reading the labels and understanding what the different terms mean.

BILL HANIFIN: So, you know, when you go to your website, there’s a lot of information there and it becomes really a lot more clear about what’s the right thing for me or what would I really like to buy and then maybe being able to balance like what you really want versus price points and things like that.

BILL HANIFIN: So, helping the consumers is key, isn’t it?

REBA HATCHER: Yes, it is.

REBA HATCHER: It’s huge and one of our core pillars is providing consumers, you know, peace of mind.

REBA HATCHER: Because ultimately we want them to have that feeling that we gave them something that they can’t get somewhere else.

REBA HATCHER: And to date, that’s not something that I would say is still very easy to do.

REBA HATCHER: I would say it’s become a lot easier in the 10 years since we launched, which is great and that’s our goal is to push the industry to be better and do better.

REBA HATCHER: We don’t want to be the only ones doing this work.

REBA HATCHER: We’d love for someday to not need to exist, which is crazy for a company to say, but for us it really does matter that people are able to get these high quality products and that it’s easy to decipher.

BILL HANIFIN: Interesting.

BILL HANIFIN: Interesting.

BILL HANIFIN: You know, I’ve heard founder stories from a number of people and yours is not unusual in the sense that many times the founders have a, like a, something they encounter in life that’s a personal issue that they want to seek a solution for.

BILL HANIFIN: And so that leads to a business idea.

BILL HANIFIN: And that’s kind of what happened here, which is, it’s an amazing story, right?

BILL HANIFIN: Which that to me translates so organically into passion.

BILL HANIFIN: Like that’s why everybody can be super passionate about working with the mission that you’re on.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, I think the other thing that helps a lot of that passion is around how we were, you know, started and funded, right?

REBA HATCHER: So we started on a Kickstarter, which is, for those who don’t know, is a crowdsourcing platform.

REBA HATCHER: And so people were just interested.

REBA HATCHER: They were like, yeah, I’ll give $200 to get a t-shirt for this thing that doesn’t exist.

REBA HATCHER: And I think we raised almost $300,000 in 30 days, which is pretty insane for a company that was really just trying to solve a problem within his community.

REBA HATCHER: And so ButcherBox actually has been self-funded since day one, and so we have no outside capital.

REBA HATCHER: I think that does allow us to double down on the passion.

REBA HATCHER: I think you see it with our employees.

REBA HATCHER: Each employee owns a part of the company, so everyone has equity in the mission.

REBA HATCHER: And it means that the people that we answer to most are our customers and ourselves as employees, which I think creates a really interesting and fun dynamic where we do get to do business different and do the meat and seafood industry different.

REBA HATCHER: And so we’re following that thread all the way through from the product that we’re serving and doing it differently, all the way to kind of our business model.

BILL HANIFIN: It’s incredible.

BILL HANIFIN: I mean, that’s unusual in this day and age, right?

BILL HANIFIN: Just to resist the, keep the investors and the investment bankers and the private equity people at the door.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s a conscious decision.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, it’s very hard, because especially in meat and seafood, the margins aren’t very high.

REBA HATCHER: And so it would, in theory, be very tempting to take outside dollars, but it does mean we have a specific focus on making sure the lifetime value of our customers has the right level of payback for the company and the right level of value is being created for them, because that’s the only way we’re getting funded, is if we create the value for our customers, which I think has made it that our customers do receive so much out of us, and we’re always constantly thinking about that, because we have to, and because we want to.

BILL HANIFIN: It impacts decision making.

BILL HANIFIN: Just think about the control and the autonomy that you have versus having to continually consult outside sources.

BILL HANIFIN: And I was just wondering, we haven’t really talked about this too much, but the growth that you’re looking at, is it around educating people about the importance of higher quality proteins?

BILL HANIFIN: Is it about convenience and delivery?

BILL HANIFIN: Is it about Christ?

BILL HANIFIN: Where do you think is this exposing the idea to more people or changing product mixes?

BILL HANIFIN: I can come up with a lot more, but where’s the growth in the future in a macro sense?

REBA HATCHER: I think it’s making it easier and easier to get the product.

REBA HATCHER: I think a lot of people are interested in getting grass-fed beef and getting organic chicken, but they just don’t know we exist.

REBA HATCHER: While we’ve been in 2.1 million households so far in our 10 years, which is amazing, we’ve served over a billion and a half better meals on people’s tables and so that’s awesome.

REBA HATCHER: And all of that being said, there are still many other households that haven’t been able to access ButcherBox, whether it’s like, we are a subscription business, so we are asking you a pretty high cost for a trial.

REBA HATCHER: We’ve rolled out a referral program where you can now try our box for $20 just for the shipping and handling, so that’s pretty great.

REBA HATCHER: And so I think for us it’s expanding the ways in which people can first try it because we know and believe in our products so much that as soon as you try it, we know that you will love exactly what we’re doing here.

REBA HATCHER: And so whether that’s going into physical retailers like Target and Costco or whether that’s offering and expanding our referral program, whether that’s offering different plans and sizes of boxes, all of those things, I think we are on to something and people love the product and we see that in our retention rates.

REBA HATCHER: We just need to get more and more people to try the product.

BILL HANIFIN: Got it right.

BILL HANIFIN: So ultimate confidence in what you’re doing, just getting the message out there in the hands of more people.

BILL HANIFIN: So you mentioned Target and Costco, that’s a significant development that’s just happened recently, isn’t it, that you’ve taken this original online only DTC model.

BILL HANIFIN: Now you’ve got some co-locations.

BILL HANIFIN: So tell me about that, how that transpired and how it’s working.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, great question.

REBA HATCHER: So we launched in Target in January, we launched in Costco in February.

REBA HATCHER: Target, we’re in every Target that sells meat and seafood, and we’re in Costco’s in the Pacific Northwest.

REBA HATCHER: So for us, when I first started the commercial department, one of the things when you ask about expansion, I said, if we’re going to get people to try it, we have to meet the other people where they are.

REBA HATCHER: So about 40% of people are never going to buy food online.

REBA HATCHER: They’re just not.

REBA HATCHER: And we know that from lots and lots of data over 10 years, the number has come down obviously a lot since COVID because people got a little bit more used to it.

REBA HATCHER: But still, we still see a large component of people who aren’t just gonna eat meat and seafood online.

REBA HATCHER: And so we said, we need to be where the people are.

REBA HATCHER: I love to use a little mermaid quote there.

REBA HATCHER: And so we need to meet them where they are, and they’re at the grocery store.

REBA HATCHER: They’re still going 2.1 times a week, even if they’re ButcherBox consumers, because they have plenty of other things to buy.

REBA HATCHER: And so we’re all about solving a problem, right?

REBA HATCHER: Back to how we started.

REBA HATCHER: So back then, it was giving people access to grass-fed beef.

REBA HATCHER: That was online.

REBA HATCHER: And then for this one, it’s 80% of people don’t know what they’re having for dinner at 4 p.m.

REBA HATCHER: So we call it the 4 p.m.

REBA HATCHER: problem.

REBA HATCHER: And that’s why we’re going into retailers, because that problem is something butcherbox.com is never gonna solve.

REBA HATCHER: We’re never gonna be at your door in the next 30 minutes from our own channels.

REBA HATCHER: And so we said, why don’t we go to the retailers where people do stop by on their way home from work and meet them at the retailers where we know our customers are already shopping, so we can at least better serve them and hopefully meet more people.

REBA HATCHER: And we’ve seen that come to fruition and have been very excited by the traction that we’ve seen in stores.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s great.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s great.

BILL HANIFIN: So you’re solving for that issue of immediacy.

BILL HANIFIN: Is for those 40% that kind of resist buying proteins online, is it a little bit of just touching feeling?

BILL HANIFIN: They just want to have it in their hand and look at it and make sure they know what they’re getting?

BILL HANIFIN: Or what are the other considerations that people have?

REBA HATCHER: Absolutely.

REBA HATCHER: You know, I always go back to like, what are the habits we’re trying to change or break or where are we going?

REBA HATCHER: Right.

REBA HATCHER: So people for 100 years have been touching the meat and seafood they’ve been eating in some way, shape or form.

REBA HATCHER: That’s just like how it’s been.

REBA HATCHER: And so, you know, it’s going to take a lot of time for people to like feel OK with buying it online.

REBA HATCHER: I do believe that, you know, once people go into a store and then they try and then they have that trust aspect built, then they might go to our online subscription service.

REBA HATCHER: And so it’s again back to that trial.

REBA HATCHER: But yeah, a lot of it is, especially with meat and seafood, they want to touch it.

REBA HATCHER: The same with like, especially with poultry, people want to see it.

REBA HATCHER: They want to see the coloring in the pack.

REBA HATCHER: They don’t know a lot about what it means to have frozen.

REBA HATCHER: Although a lot of people actually end up just freezing their meat anyway when they buy it at the grocery store because so much is sold on sale.

REBA HATCHER: So we know that this dynamic exists and we’ve talked a lot about how with frozen, at some point, people will realize it’s better for us to freeze it than for you to freeze it at home, right?

REBA HATCHER: We have a whole process that allows for it to be properly frozen and still be at peak freshness when you defrost it.

REBA HATCHER: That being said, we just know that it is a hurdle and so we try to work through that with people but we also know that it’s a large tide to turn, a habit that people have been doing for so long.

BILL HANIFIN: It is, and I wonder if there isn’t, I know that’s irrational.

BILL HANIFIN: Consumer behavior, we’ve been studying it for a long time and how people make purchase decisions is maybe one of the most challenging problems to solve.

BILL HANIFIN: But there are a lot of intangible, very subjective things that go through people’s minds.

BILL HANIFIN: It happens at the last minute, like you’re about to use your hand on something and you change your mind for some reason that’s unknown to a researcher, or won’t show up in a survey.

BILL HANIFIN: But I wonder if there’s a little bit of this, like we’re all trying to eat healthy and some people may have the perception like, well, grass-fed beef is not for me because it’s expensive.

BILL HANIFIN: Or it’s sort of like this gap, and I don’t know if it’s an irrational gap, right?

BILL HANIFIN: But have you done any research or looked into that, about how people perceive different levels of product?

BILL HANIFIN: And I would think like the big huge accomplisher would be if you close that gap and just say, hey, grass-fed beef is for everyone.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, we do a lot of work around that.

REBA HATCHER: Something that we rolled out in the last year or so is this thing called the savings receipt.

REBA HATCHER: Because even for people who do sign up for ButcherBox, they still experience this gap that you’re talking about, that like healthy food is expensive, right?

REBA HATCHER: I think that there are many places that have furthered that concept and why people think that.

REBA HATCHER: I think it is based in a lot of reality at grocery stores right now.

REBA HATCHER: Unfortunately, all food is expensive right now, healthy or not.

REBA HATCHER: And so there is actually an interesting space right now where like all food is so expensive that like the healthy food isn’t marginally that much more in a lot of cases.

REBA HATCHER: But all that being said, so we rolled out this savings receipt and the savings receipt helps our customers look through.

REBA HATCHER: So we know that someone buying the base box is not getting the full value out of ButcherBox.

REBA HATCHER: So we do what we call deals.

REBA HATCHER: And so it’s a very, well, what we call deals, everyone calls them deals, but we do a daily set of deals.

REBA HATCHER: And so it’s not like a weekly thing.

REBA HATCHER: We’re changing it three to four times a week.

REBA HATCHER: And we’re offering them all sorts of things.

REBA HATCHER: We’re offering, you know, whether it’s like what we call a ground beef blast, where you’re getting 10 packs of ground beef for a discounted price, or you’re getting the kids’ table bundle, as we call it, with chicken nuggets and strips and cod bites.

REBA HATCHER: We’re putting that on sale.

REBA HATCHER: So we’re doing both the combination of, I think, great merchandising, but also great pricing together to drive people to see that value.

REBA HATCHER: And then we do the savings receipt where we show them how much are you saving by adding all of these products against how much it would have cost you.

REBA HATCHER: So you have to do the math for people, as we call it, right?

REBA HATCHER: Like they’re doing some of the math, but it’s complicated because they’re going to look at all these stores and compare it and these products you can’t find everywhere.

REBA HATCHER: So some of the benefit to some customers is the fact that they can get it at one shop, right?

REBA HATCHER: Like for them, they’re like, I’d rather pay for this because I’m going to store X and store Y and store A just to kind of get what I need, whereas I can go to ButcherBox where we pretty much always have 110 items on sale.

REBA HATCHER: And so that’s a pretty great maximizer for a lot of customers to not have to go to all of these stores.

REBA HATCHER: So I think the savings receipt has done pretty well in being able to do the math for people, but also show them all of the things they’re getting in one place, which can’t be discounted.

BILL HANIFIN: You know, when I was listening to you talk and I thought, so you’re doing the math for people, which is smart, and then you’re building credibility in the math.

BILL HANIFIN: Because it’s one thing to put a number at the bottom of a receipt, you’ve probably seen that at a grocery store.

BILL HANIFIN: And I’m sort of, you know, quizzically looking at that, like, did I really save that money or did I not save that money?

BILL HANIFIN: I’m not sure if it’s real.

BILL HANIFIN: But you’re solving for it in a way that you’re building credibility into those numbers for people so they get it.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, I think they get it, and I think we’re figuring out newer ways of bringing that to the forefront.

REBA HATCHER: Like, how much are you saving by pound?

REBA HATCHER: Is it how much you’re saving on your total receipt?

REBA HATCHER: And just figuring out the different parts back to consumer psychology on what’s going to move the needle the most.

REBA HATCHER: But also, we always try to keep in mind back to that peace of mind that we don’t want to burden them with too much information because they know part of the reason that they come to us is to feel ease.

REBA HATCHER: And so we try to make that as digestible as possible.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah, that’s good.

BILL HANIFIN: So tell me a little bit about the Sizzle Society.

BILL HANIFIN: In fact, tell me a lot about the Sizzle Society.

BILL HANIFIN: The interesting thing about it is you’ve got a subscription business and then you have a loyalty program layered on top of that.

BILL HANIFIN: So what was the thought process when you created it?

BILL HANIFIN: What were the key objectives you were trying to solve for?

BILL HANIFIN: And you mentioned consumer behavior.

BILL HANIFIN: What behaviors were you specifically trying to vote to be?

PAULA: Let’s take a quick loyalty insight break.

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REBA HATCHER: Absolutely.

REBA HATCHER: So for us, I love that you asked about the nature of having a subscription business already, and then launching a loyalty program.

REBA HATCHER: For us, we believe that we were actually doing a lot of these loyalty-based behaviors in one-off manner.

REBA HATCHER: So when we went about this, we were like, well, we’re doing this thing over there where we’re helping this group of people, we’re doing this thing over here where we’re giving high-end support, we’re doing this thing over here where we’re giving them this perk, and we’re like, why don’t we just create a loyalty program that has a nice neat wrapper and banner and make it very clear for consumers?

REBA HATCHER: Because again, one of our things is transparency.

REBA HATCHER: So why don’t we make it as transparent as possible?

REBA HATCHER: So we had done enough of those pilots to understand generally what made people excited, what didn’t really move the needle.

REBA HATCHER: But when we went into it, the first thing we had to do was stop looking at our consumers as a monolith, which I think is very important for anyone looking to start a loyalty program or looking to 2X their loyalty program is that we were looking at all of our customers the same way.

REBA HATCHER: And so we went on this segmentation journey actually for a year before we even started talking about Sizzle Society.

REBA HATCHER: And so we broke them down into their different segments.

REBA HATCHER: We learned a lot about their demographics and we really went deep on who our customers were and tried to put them into groups so that when we went to go build the loyalty program, Sizzle Society, now an award-winning loyalty program, thank you, Modern Retail, we went about it in a way that we were like, okay, now we know the behaviors that moved the needle.

REBA HATCHER: So we created Sizzle Society.

REBA HATCHER: It has three different tiers.

REBA HATCHER: The first tier is the sous chef, then we have the head chef, then we have the executive chef, and then we have the exclusive chef’s table, but I’ll focus on the first three levels.

REBA HATCHER: So when you come into ButcherBox as a subscriber, you’re automatically opted in.

REBA HATCHER: So for us, it was important that because people aren’t paying for it, we’re not going to hide the ball, make you opt in.

REBA HATCHER: It’s like, we know we’re giving you a program that only provides benefit from you.

REBA HATCHER: It takes nothing from the customer at all.

REBA HATCHER: So we’re like, why don’t we just opt people in?

REBA HATCHER: We think that that is like the good thing to do and not make it this game more than we’re chasing people opting in and then not focusing on actual program value.

REBA HATCHER: So I would say that that was the first big step that we made in creating the program.

REBA HATCHER: And then we rolled out what our tiers and perks would be, but that came a lot out of our voice in the customer program where we listened to our customers.

REBA HATCHER: On video, we did video diary studies with them, we did surveys, we looked at other loyalty programs, we put it out into the world that we were a soon-to-be award-winning program.

REBA HATCHER: We wanted to be the program that could stand next to an Ulta, which is the category one in, which was one of the most amazing things for us because we’re a small company by the nature of who else is out there.

REBA HATCHER: And so for us, when we built those kind of three tiers, we knew that we wanted to give people a reason to want to move up into each tier.

REBA HATCHER: And I would say that that’s the number one behavior.

REBA HATCHER: So each of those tiers is based on the number of orders someone has in a year.

REBA HATCHER: And so for us, we wanted to move the frequency of people ordering.

REBA HATCHER: The amount that they’re ordering does hit them in the way that they get the points based on the amount they order.

REBA HATCHER: So I think when we created it, it was a two-tiered system of like, ones based on your orders and ones based on the amount you spend.

REBA HATCHER: We knew frequency matters the most, especially when it comes to a food business, because we know if you’re going through your box, you’re gonna stay a loyal member.

REBA HATCHER: The bigger box, obviously we enjoy and we love our members who spend a lot with us, but we know that consistency and frequency is really what’s going to drive the lifetime value and make us feel like we’re a staple in your household.

REBA HATCHER: And whether that’s a couple that only needs $100 of food a month, or that’s another family, that’s like we need $500, for us it’s the consistency and the repetitive nature of it.

BILL HANIFIN: It’s, yeah, it’s that exactly, right?

BILL HANIFIN: You want to have that share of mind with people.

BILL HANIFIN: Automatically, when they’re thinking about the grocery list and where they’re going to go shopping, because people split their basket now today anyway, to a large degree.

BILL HANIFIN: So, you know, you’ve heard the comment like, oh, so-and-so grocery has better meats, you know, and better, but now the whole idea is like, you just automatically butcher boxes in that slot, right?

BILL HANIFIN: And that’s what they’re thinking about.

REBA HATCHER: Correct.

REBA HATCHER: That’s exactly what we want.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah.

BILL HANIFIN: So, so you were smart.

BILL HANIFIN: You did all the work.

BILL HANIFIN: Because my question, I was going to ask you, like, it’s a pretty courageous thing to opt everybody in.

BILL HANIFIN: I mean, a lot of people, if you went to the, you know, and just into the echo chamber of all the lousy marketers, somebody said, oh, be careful with that, you know, but you did the work, and you obviously gave people the chance to opt out, but just about everybody stuck, didn’t they?

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, I think we just checked because we’re moving loyalty platforms, and so we just checked how many opt-outs.

REBA HATCHER: I think we’ve had less than 200, and we have 420,000 members.

REBA HATCHER: So, Incredible.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, it’s pretty wild to see that.

REBA HATCHER: It means that, you know, all of our hypotheses were right, and I would say the way that we gained confidence in being able to make such a large decision, because to your point, a lot of loyalty marketers out there would tell you like, oh, like, that’s dangerous.

REBA HATCHER: You’re going to have all these people with these points accruing.

REBA HATCHER: And, you know, we did a lot of financial modeling around what it would mean for everyone to have points and how to have the balance and how to carry that.

REBA HATCHER: And that took a lot of partnership between myself, the finance department, the marketing department.

REBA HATCHER: We all had to lock hands and say that this is the most important thing for us to do because one of our core values is being customer obsessed.

REBA HATCHER: And so the most customer obsessed thing to do is to not make it hard to opt in to a program that only gives value, to not make people question, like, why do I have to opt in?

REBA HATCHER: Like, what is the catch here?

REBA HATCHER: There is no catch.

REBA HATCHER: And that’s what they’ve seen.

REBA HATCHER: And so I think that, you know, that transparency, and for us, it’s easy when you have core values that you consistently follow every day.

REBA HATCHER: It’s like, great, you’re customer obsessed?

REBA HATCHER: Okay, then that’s what that means.

REBA HATCHER: And it means sticking to that.

REBA HATCHER: And I think we’ve proven that time and again, when things get hard, or they’re difficult decisions, or it’s expensive, we just kind of fall back to our core values and make sure that those lead the way.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah.

BILL HANIFIN: And when you deliver value authentically, and it’s really tangible and easy to understand from the customer, I mean, it’s a gift more than it is like a burden.

BILL HANIFIN: Like, and you take that, no wonder you take the decision away from them, because they see the opportunity, they see the value, and, oh, and they gave it to me, I’m opted in.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, like the first day you become a subscriber, it’s like, welcome to the Loyalty program, like, you’re a sous chef, like, we’re so excited to start cooking with you, we’re so excited to see what you cook.

REBA HATCHER: We want to know about what’s going on, how’s it going, what can we be doing better?

REBA HATCHER: And here are some perks that go along with that.

REBA HATCHER: We have sizzle perks, which are discounts from some of our favorite brands in the space.

REBA HATCHER: Primal Kitchen’s a big favorite in that space, but we just kind of give them discounts at different places, and they’re like, I get this for free, and it’s like, yeah.

REBA HATCHER: Like, we’re probably done.

REBA HATCHER: There’s no catch, there’s no thing.

REBA HATCHER: And I think that it does provide a lot of equity into what we say, it shows up in what we do.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah, partnerships are powerful, aren’t they?

BILL HANIFIN: And so you have like a group of key partnerships that you have blended into the program, where they’re adding additional value?

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, we have about 12 to 14 right now.

REBA HATCHER: I know we were just launching a couple this past week.

REBA HATCHER: And so yeah, we are able to give discounts anywhere from 10% to 30% off of different brands.

REBA HATCHER: They can link right to the website.

REBA HATCHER: Most of them we’re not making like any sort of money off of, or we’re making very small, like five cents, which is like not the reason we do it.

REBA HATCHER: We do it so that people kind of get the most value out of what they’re experiencing.

REBA HATCHER: And I think the funniest part about building out the sizzle park for that, these are all brands that me and my team use.

REBA HATCHER: Like people are like, how did you come up with the brands?

REBA HATCHER: It was like, well, these are the brands that we think are most authentic to the ButcherBox experience, whether it’s like Noble, which is a workout apparel company, or whether it’s like Primal Kitchen, which has no preservatives in their food, and is free from all the things that we say our meat and seafood are free from.

REBA HATCHER: And so it’s all of these brands that match the space that we’re in, that they’re cultivating this health aspect, and they’re building a healthier you.

REBA HATCHER: And so we believe that that starts with everything on your plate to what you wear at the gym, to all of these things.

REBA HATCHER: We try to just expand it in a way where we’re providing that same quality, but yeah, they’re all brands that we try a bunch first before we’re even remotely going to offer the perk there.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah, that’s really good.

BILL HANIFIN: I’m getting more excited the more I listen.

BILL HANIFIN: And so you’re doing a really nice job too.

BILL HANIFIN: I noticed when I looked at the program, balancing the transactional bit, the points and the currency based on spend and experiences that you build in.

BILL HANIFIN: And some of that is teardrobin, I think.

BILL HANIFIN: But one of them that jumped off the page of me was this, you have something called Bacon for Life in the program, which you can explain.

BILL HANIFIN: And then there’s a perk swap that’s available if you’re at the executive chef level, right?

BILL HANIFIN: Where you can manipulate that or change that to meet your liking.

BILL HANIFIN: So tell me about that.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, so Bacon for Life is one of those perks, if you will, that existed long before our loyalty program.

REBA HATCHER: Actually, it was in the first year of ButcherBox, so predates my even eight years of being here.

REBA HATCHER: We offered Bacon for Life.

REBA HATCHER: It actually came out of a mistake, which is pretty funny.

REBA HATCHER: So the original promotion was that you would get Bacon in your first box.

REBA HATCHER: Great.

REBA HATCHER: We at the time had built a, we were built on a custom technology platform.

REBA HATCHER: And so we thought we were offering it to everyone in their first box.

REBA HATCHER: And we were, we confirmed that.

REBA HATCHER: But we were also offering it to them in every box.

REBA HATCHER: So we said, why don’t we just call it a program and call it Bacon for Life?

REBA HATCHER: And now we’ve made it, it’s everywhere now.

REBA HATCHER: Now, every one of our competitors has a version of it.

REBA HATCHER: And it’s pretty funny to watch what came from a mistake.

REBA HATCHER: And now is the main way in which we help retain folks.

REBA HATCHER: And so Bacon for Life is very popular.

REBA HATCHER: We’ve moved to more four-year programs so we can offer more expensive products.

REBA HATCHER: So ribeyes for a year, which is pretty great, chicken breasts for a year.

REBA HATCHER: And so we’ve really expanded what that looks like.

REBA HATCHER: And then if you’re an executive chef, what we found is that over time, when we did that research over what perks would people most want, especially at that top tier, they were like, yeah, I love bacon, but I’ve been a member for 10 years, and I’d like to just swap it out.

REBA HATCHER: And they’re like, oh, yeah, we never thought about that.

REBA HATCHER: Sounds good.

REBA HATCHER: Why don’t we just offer that as a perk?

REBA HATCHER: And so now it’s perk.

REBA HATCHER: So for us, it goes back to this nature of if you talk to your customers and you just ask them what they want, they’ll tell you things that there was no reason we weren’t allowing it before.

REBA HATCHER: It had never really occurred to us that, yes, if you’re a member for 10 years, maybe you don’t need the same thing in every box and you’d like to switch it out.

REBA HATCHER: So that’s been a really great perk that customers have loved.

BILL HANIFIN: And what are your options here?

BILL HANIFIN: We’re kind of, I mean, hard to see anything better than bacon for life or what might have been.

REBA HATCHER: So if you’re on a four-year program, you can switch between like chicken nuggets for a year, you can get salmon for a year, you can get chicken breasts, yeah, you can get chicken breasts, you can get rib eyes.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, there’s a lot of different options.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah, it’s really cool.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah.

REBA HATCHER: So it’s a good one, especially if you switch like once a year and you have just different things going on, it’s a really great way to do that or you buy one of our other deals and you load up on it that way, and then you get this.

REBA HATCHER: So there’s a lot of gameplay, as we say, with some of our best customers who are doing basically a super Mario Kart version of ButcherBox, and then there’s everyone else who’s just trying to shop for their family.

BILL HANIFIN: I love it.

BILL HANIFIN: You’ve taken the experience as a whole new level with this thing called the Chef’s Table Dinner Series.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s an amazing thing.

BILL HANIFIN: It sounds like you have exclusive no agenda dinners for top tier of the membership, the top 1 percent or so.

BILL HANIFIN: Tell me about how that works, how it came about and the impact it’s having.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah.

REBA HATCHER: So when we first rolled out our loyalty program, so I mentioned the three tiers, so Sous Chef, Head Chef, Executive Chef.

REBA HATCHER: We knew we wanted to get closer to our customers in person, especially with the rise.

REBA HATCHER: One, being a DSC company, we weren’t seeing enough of them.

REBA HATCHER: We want to see them in real life.

REBA HATCHER: We want to talk to you, see what your day is like, what is meal time look like.

REBA HATCHER: We do a lot of surveys and a lot of video diaries, but nothing beats meeting people in person.

REBA HATCHER: We created Chef’s Table as a way to thank our top customers.

REBA HATCHER: Last year, we went to 10 cities.

REBA HATCHER: This year, I think we’re going to 16, which is incredible.

REBA HATCHER: We go around to these cities and we host dinners at restaurants, and we serve ButcherBox with them, and then we talk to them about how their meal time is going.

REBA HATCHER: But really, it’s just to thank them.

REBA HATCHER: What we found is that we’ve gotten a lot of great insight that we’re doing a lot of things right, which is great, but we always tell them, we’re not here to hear what we’re doing right.

REBA HATCHER: We’re here to hear what we can be doing better.

REBA HATCHER: We heard a lot about Oregon meats, and so we have something in the works right now.

REBA HATCHER: I would say that was the number one most asked for thing across every city.

REBA HATCHER: Some things varied by city, like in LA, we had more of our health-based folks who were like, hey, I live near an Arawan and a Whole Foods, but I choose ButcherBox because it always has everything I need, and it’s the one-stop shop or whatever.

REBA HATCHER: We learned a lot about different cities, but what we learned most is that our customers do love the service that they get from ButcherBox.

REBA HATCHER: We’re playing around with what that looks like in coming years, to make sure we’re meeting just tons of members on the road and hearing their experiences.

REBA HATCHER: But it’s been really fun to get to see people in person and get new ideas for where we can be going next.

BILL HANIFIN: Right.

BILL HANIFIN: Then we remember we’re talking about how difficult it is to understand the mind of the consumer.

BILL HANIFIN: So the number one way is to actually sit and talk to them.

BILL HANIFIN: Right?

REBA HATCHER: Correct.

REBA HATCHER: There’s really no agenda.

REBA HATCHER: Just letting everything flow.

REBA HATCHER: I asked them, the ones that were closer to the end of the year, it’s like, how’s your holiday prep going?

REBA HATCHER: I get to hear about Aunt Susie who you don’t particularly like, I get to hear about what’s going on there, and I get to hear about your turkey, and having to order it early, and how can ButcherBox do that better?

REBA HATCHER: And so, it’s really fun to be able to bring all of that to life.

BILL HANIFIN: I love it.

BILL HANIFIN: Do you have counselors standing by to help them with holiday meal, family issues, and things like that?

REBA HATCHER: You know, we actually do what we call a turkey palooza, where we actually take questions for basically 24 hours leading up to it, and a lot of that comes to life.

REBA HATCHER: So-and-so forgot the turkey and this and that.

REBA HATCHER: But yeah, food ultimately is about gathering together, and for us, it’s practicing what we preach, is to get around that table with you and gather together.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah.

BILL HANIFIN: Now, it really is.

BILL HANIFIN: It really is.

BILL HANIFIN: So, you were talking about two pretty distinct subscriber profiles, this Convenient Seeker and the Inspiration Seeker.

BILL HANIFIN: Can you compare and contrast those, and tell me even how you came about, your knowledge of that?

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah.

REBA HATCHER: So, we were looking at a couple of different ways to look at customers.

REBA HATCHER: There’s demographics, there’s dollars, there’s what they’re adding to their cart.

REBA HATCHER: But also, there’s this emotional tie to why do you get ButcherBox.

REBA HATCHER: So, the Convenient Seeker, I would say, is someone who really is, like we’ve been talking a lot about during this talk, is people who want one-stop shop, and they’re looking for that, and they really want it to be easy.

REBA HATCHER: And then, there’s an inspiration seeker.

REBA HATCHER: I think there are people who need inspiration in the kitchen, and I would say that that has evolved over time in our own learning, that when we first started, we were like, oh, well, people, we were giving them how to cook videos, which is not a bad thing.

REBA HATCHER: A lot of customers, actually, these days, or consumers in general, don’t really want to touch their meat, which is a whole different thing.

REBA HATCHER: So, we went really deep into that, how to cook.

REBA HATCHER: But what we found is people actually need inspiration.

REBA HATCHER: They’re feeling tired, they’re feeling exhausted, they’re feeling burnt out, and at four o’clock, they don’t even know what they’re having for dinner, let alone how they’re gonna make it.

REBA HATCHER: So, that’s a very squeezed time, that if you’re trying to get dinner on the table by 5.30 with two screaming kids in the car, you’re in trouble because that’s a very tight window.

REBA HATCHER: You’re probably still finishing up work.

REBA HATCHER: You haven’t even bought what you needed.

REBA HATCHER: You don’t know what’s in your fridge because you’re on the road now that we’re going back into offices.

REBA HATCHER: We went a lot into what is happening in that moment, and so we found that what they need is inspiration sometimes.

REBA HATCHER: How can we inspire them by dinner time, inspire them to make dinners that are under 30 minutes?

REBA HATCHER: Really focusing on how we can do that as opposed to the how to cook, which is a very different path.

REBA HATCHER: I would say learning about our cost, and customers can be in both categories, but we know that a lot of customers need that inspiration, but a lot of them are also just looking for convenience in one-stop shop.

BILL HANIFIN: You know what?

BILL HANIFIN: I would say Reba, that at any age, any part of the life cycle like that, if you can provide that inspiration to break the deadlock of decision making, because there’s so many days that people, we do it all the time, we say, what do you want to do?

BILL HANIFIN: You get to that point of like, I want to do something different, but I just don’t have any ideas.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah.

BILL HANIFIN: If you can help with that, you’re going to win big time.

REBA HATCHER: That’s what we’re trying to do.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s good.

BILL HANIFIN: So tell me a couple of things.

BILL HANIFIN: Impact of the program, Sizzle Society and everything you’re doing on the business.

BILL HANIFIN: We kind of hinted at big ROI and a lot of good metrics.

BILL HANIFIN: Are there any metrics you can share with us?

REBA HATCHER: Yeah.

REBA HATCHER: So we’ve seen two times the return on investment that we made in our program, and you might ask, what was the investment that we made?

REBA HATCHER: So for us, we look at the investment in a couple of ways.

REBA HATCHER: One is obviously the points, so for us, we give basically 2% back on your spend, and so that was a big deal for us because again, as I said earlier, meat and seafood does not come with high margins, so giving 2% was like a really tight squeeze.

REBA HATCHER: A lot of relationship building and conversations between finance and our commercial team to be able to make that happen.

REBA HATCHER: So that’s a large part of what we spend there, but obviously the dinners and all of the gifts that we give people.

REBA HATCHER: So we did gifts this year at the beginning of the year where we gave out these amazing cutting boards.

REBA HATCHER: Shout out to a lot of our partners from Headley and Bennett and Last Crumb.

REBA HATCHER: Like we just have a lot of great partners who help us make this possible.

REBA HATCHER: Well, we invest a lot in the program to be able to surprise and delight people as well as the points aspect.

REBA HATCHER: So being able to see that 2X ROI in the first 18 months was pretty huge because it means that we were getting people to order more than we thought they would, getting them to put more in their boxes, getting them to be more loyal customers, because we don’t want people to leave and we know that once they started, they continue to see that value.

REBA HATCHER: And so I think even just having a wrapper that’s like Sizzle Society and we’re giving you this value reinforces the things that maybe they’re not even using all of the perks, but they’re seeing that like ButcherBox is doubling down in value and that when they need it, it will be there.

BILL HANIFIN: Right, right.

BILL HANIFIN: And the touchy subject of liability, since you do have a points currency, are you managing that through expiration or do you have like time limits or activity limits or how did that conversation go with the CFO?

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, ours are, yeah, they’re pretty interesting.

REBA HATCHER: So we do have expirations, but it’s a pretty wide range.

REBA HATCHER: So if you don’t order within six months, your points will expire.

REBA HATCHER: But most of our customers are ordering within that time.

REBA HATCHER: So that was really just to make sure that we weren’t on the books, carrying points for like in perpetuity because that just gets really messy and not even just like financially bad, just messy accounting to be carrying these points year over year over year for people who still have accounts, especially because our subscription is so open and flexible.

REBA HATCHER: We had to have some container there.

REBA HATCHER: And so that’s the main way in which points expire.

REBA HATCHER: But for the rest of it, it really is just making sure people order.

REBA HATCHER: And we really want people to be ordering every month, every two months.

REBA HATCHER: And so that felt like the right kind of like 300, 3X where we want to be is like the guardrail there.

BILL HANIFIN: That’s probably a huge shift from the way people used to look at loyalty programs.

BILL HANIFIN: Is it now you’ve really got the engagement and the activity and the turnover?

BILL HANIFIN: And you really don’t want to see them expire, do you?

BILL HANIFIN: Because that means people are engaged with what they used to be.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, and they don’t feel great.

REBA HATCHER: So our customers don’t have to use the points.

REBA HATCHER: A lot of them will hoard them maybe for a year.

REBA HATCHER: But as long as they keep ordering, we’re like, that’s totally fine.

REBA HATCHER: We know that we are always coming out with new things in the program.

REBA HATCHER: So we know that some of our customers are betting on, they might come out with this thing and I can use a lot more points towards it.

REBA HATCHER: And so it’s funny to see the gamification that they’re creating that we didn’t even anticipate on our end would be created when we entered into this market.

REBA HATCHER: So we’re only going to grow that side, but it’s really interesting to see where their heads are at.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah, it really is.

BILL HANIFIN: So a quick question about just your operations, because one of the things we’re talking about is lately is operational excellence.

BILL HANIFIN: It’s really important to have your Marstack together, your MarTech stack and your processes and procedures and everything.

BILL HANIFIN: But can you share anything about how you’ve got this thing organized?

BILL HANIFIN: Are you doing it all yourself?

BILL HANIFIN: Are you using outside partners or how are you going to work it?

REBA HATCHER: So we have an amazing program manager.

REBA HATCHER: His name is David, who runs the day-to-day and overall strategy of the loyalty program.

REBA HATCHER: And so he runs that from the experience of the customer, as well as what are the tiers and the points.

REBA HATCHER: When it comes to the nitty-gritty operations, we are moving to a platform on Tavo in the coming days, like in the next 13 days, which is crazy.

REBA HATCHER: And so we’re moving to this platform, which I think will help a lot of the scamification.

REBA HATCHER: So everyone should stay tuned for exciting things, like if you order every protein, you’ll get extra points.

REBA HATCHER: And so we’re excited to really play around with things that we know are fun for customers and really engage them from that aspect.

REBA HATCHER: And we have an amazing CRM team that handles all of the communication pathways for our customers, so that we’re talking about our loyalty program early and often and bringing that all the way through.

REBA HATCHER: And so for us, it is really a way of being, as opposed to just a program that can exist on the side.

REBA HATCHER: And I think that’s what’s made it so successful, because it really is baked into everyone’s thoughts on how do we make this a part of the marketing?

REBA HATCHER: How do we make this a part of, like, when you get a box, like should we be throwing something in there?

REBA HATCHER: When we give you a gift, what does that look like when you’re on customer support?

REBA HATCHER: So we’re early in our journey, but we’re thinking about how do they fit into every touch point and not just like a loyalty program that’s owned by a loyalty person.

REBA HATCHER: Yeah.

BILL HANIFIN: Yeah.

BILL HANIFIN: No, that’s great.

BILL HANIFIN: Great vision.

BILL HANIFIN: So final question I want to ask you just once ahead for Sizzle Society.

BILL HANIFIN: And if you had to sit back right now and say, what would optimizing customer loyalty look like for ButcherBox and for your team?

BILL HANIFIN: What would that look like?

REBA HATCHER: Yeah, I think that optimizing customer loyalty would look like that we believe ultimately that we’re capturing all of the meat and seafood share, and we love to be aspirational here.

REBA HATCHER: But for us, it really is that you are looking somewhere else, and if you are looking somewhere else, that we’ve expanded our retail enough that we’re also there.

REBA HATCHER: So that we are everywhere that you could possibly think, and that your loyalty is rewarded across all of those channels.

REBA HATCHER: Now, that’s much easier said than done, especially when you go into someone else’s retailer.

REBA HATCHER: But we’re thinking of ways to bring that all together.

REBA HATCHER: One of the platform options we have is around receipt scanning, which we’re excited about.

REBA HATCHER: So being able to give points for people shopping in stores, because for us, the goal is really that we are your 100% meat and seafood provider.

BILL HANIFIN: Great.

BILL HANIFIN: It’s a good story.

BILL HANIFIN: So you’ve been the highlight of the day for sure, and when people get to hear this, they’re going to feel the same way, I’m sure.

BILL HANIFIN: So Reba Hatcher, Chief Commercial Officer at ButcherBox, thank you very, very much for your time.

BILL HANIFIN: Really appreciate it.

BILL HANIFIN: Great conversation, and I want to give thanks also to Let’s Talk Loyalty for making this possible, Paula Thomas and her entire team.

BILL HANIFIN: But thanks for being here.

BILL HANIFIN: I hope you’re waking the whole new crowd of ButcherBox fans.

REBA HATCHER: I hope so too.

REBA HATCHER: Reba 30, if anyone needs a code.

BILL HANIFIN: You’re writing that down.

BILL HANIFIN: All right.

BILL HANIFIN: Thanks, Reba.

BILL HANIFIN: Thanks for everything, and thanks everyone for joining us.

REBA HATCHER: Thank you.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketeer Group, operating the Wise Marketeer and Loyalty Academy.

PAULA: For nearly 25 years, the Wise Marketer is the industry’s longest-serving publication and source for news, information, and insights, which now includes its own branded industry research, insights, and advice.

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PAULA: The Loyalty Academy sets a global industry standard for loyalty education, with its Certified Loyalty Marketing Professional, or CLMP, designation, which has created a community of more than 1,200 marketing executives and professionals across more than 50 countries.

PAULA: Learn more about global loyalty education for individuals or corporate training at loyaltyacademy.org.

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