Telstra Plus: Moving Beyond Points to Create Emotional Loyalty and Customer Value (#799)

Paula: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Paula: If you work in loyalty marketing, join us every week to hear the latest ideas and insights for loyalty marketing specialists around the world.

Carly: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Carly: My name is Carly Neubauer.

Carly: I’m the Managing Director of Elevate Loyalty and Loyalty Economics.

Carly: My guest today is Tomas Warden, Group Owner of Digital Customer Success at Telstra, leading us through engagement, loyalty, mobile commerce, communications, and AI-powered experiences across MyTelstra and Telstra Plus.

Carly: If you work in loyalty marketing, join us every week to hear the latest ideas and insights from other loyalty experts around the world.

Carly: Hi, Tomas.

Carly: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Carly: Great to have you here.

Tomas: Hi, Carly.

Tomas: Thanks for having me.

Carly: So as we do on all of our episodes, before we kick off and talk about you and Telstra Plus, I’d love to ask you two of our standard questions.

Carly: The first one of which is your favorite non-fiction or business loyalty book.

Carly: Tell us a little bit about what you like to read.

Tomas: Yeah.

Tomas: This one is not necessarily a loyalty book.

Tomas: It’s probably more in the business sphere.

Tomas: And I say read, but to be honest, I’ve probably listened to it more as an audio book than the actual book itself.

Tomas: But it’s diary of a CEO by Stephen Bartlett.

Tomas: I think it’s full of nuggets for both your personal life, your professional life, and I think even elements of loyalty come into there.

Tomas: One of my favorite chapters is all around not sweating the small stuff.

Tomas: Sorry, sweating the small stuff and how important that is, and how that can impact people’s perceptions and how they feel and their comfort levels.

Tomas: So I think there’s a lot of lessons.

Tomas: And in particular, I love that it doesn’t really flow.

Tomas: It flows as a book that you could listen to altogether, but you can also take yourself back to some of those chapters and really immerse yourself in the moment and maybe the lessons you got at the time.

Tomas: So yeah, a nugget of joy every time I listen to it.

Carly: Such a great choice.

Carly: And you’re right, you can read it sort of back to front, front to back, or the little pieces at a time that you enjoy.

Carly: And such a good call at sweat the small stuff, not the standard comment around not sweating it.

Carly: It’s really, really great choice.

Carly: Great choice and good recommendation.

Carly: So the next question we like to ask all guests, is it your favorite loyalty program?

Carly: You’re an expert in loyalty, so tell us what you like to participate in if you’re a consumer and a member.

Tomas: Yeah, I mean, this is a really hard one because I think, being in loyalty and even before working in loyalty, I’m a fan of the programs, I’m a fan of getting benefits and value.

Tomas: But at the moment, I’ve probably got two.

Tomas: One’s kind of like traditional loyalty and one’s, I think loyalty but more loyalty mechanics, and they both travel.

Tomas: But the first one is Mario Bonvoy.

Tomas: And I’m actually probably a recent member of that program, to be honest, but I feel that one thing they’re doing really well is the consistency of benefits.

Tomas: And you can offer things as a part of a membership, but if you don’t deliver on them, then they quickly become things that become the memory that you don’t really want as a loyalty program.

Tomas: So it becomes letting people down, not delivering on that promise, and that can be worse.

Tomas: So I think Mario Bonvoy are really living up to that.

Tomas: They’re kind of setting their standard on their tiers and then living up to that value and that experience.

Tomas: And then probably the other close follow is American Express, Finehose, Tales and Resorts.

Tomas: And again, this is in the travel space, but it’s a similar thing, right?

Tomas: They’re promising something, and then consistently delivering on that promise.

Tomas: You feel value, you feel an emotional connection.

Tomas: And I suppose it is easier in travel because it’s already an emotional topic, if you like, in something that’s memorable, but it kind of works both ways.

Tomas: If you don’t deliver on that promise, then it can quickly become something painful.

Tomas: So yeah, they’re both programs that I’m really enjoying at the moment.

Carly: Nice.

Carly: And good advice.

Carly: We love to ask this question about life and loyalty, and I feel like you’ve covered that already.

Carly: It’s like stick to your promises and deliver on your promises, and great advice for loyalty and life in itself, right?

Tomas: Exactly.

Tomas: Yeah, for sure.

Carly: So for those who may not know Telstra as a business or Telstra Plus, can you give us a bit of an overview around the business?

Carly: And from memory, I think we now have conversations, you’ve been there for almost two decades, so you have a very good knowledge of the business, and also Telstra Plus is a program.

Tomas: Yeah, for sure.

Tomas: I’ve been here for 17 years.

Tomas: So it’s, you know, someone would call, something would call me a lifer, but yeah, committed to the brand and I love working for Telstra.

Tomas: But yeah, Telstra is Australia’s leading telecommunications company.

Tomas: So started off as the postmaster general and evolved into the company that we are today.

Tomas: So really we’re known for the country’s biggest mobile network and best mobile network, kind of beautiful home internet and service that we provide to our customers and really providing support to everyone everywhere.

Tomas: So we’re really known as that, you know, that brand that’s covering or trying to cover almost everyone in Australia and give them service.

Tomas: So really important Australian brand.

Tomas: And then Telstra Plus is our loyalty program.

Tomas: And so it’s actually been around for just over six years now.

Tomas: I think is the kind of number we’re working to.

Tomas: It has had previous lives as a program called Telstra Thanks, which was really, I suppose more focused on the rewards program.

Tomas: But Telstra Plus is our current full loyalty program, which is a points and tier based program where you earn 10 points per dollar spent on your telco products.

Tomas: And also growing number of partnerships as well, where you can earn points outside of Telstra.

Tomas: But we also have a kind of growing experience element to the program as well, which also kind of dates back to the origins of that original program where we give customers access to pre-sales for exclusive events.

Tomas: We also give them discounted movie tickets to 95% of Australian cinemas.

Tomas: And so really trying to give customers experiences beyond points and then ladder that up to, you know, how you feel about Telstra overall.

Carly: That’s a great program.

Carly: And for those who may not realize, it was 6 million members.

Tomas: Yeah, that’s right.

Tomas: Over 6 million members and around 81% of them are engaged in the program.

Tomas: And that could be using the benefits, checking their points balance, redeeming their points.

Tomas: And so, yeah, really active and engaged base of members.

Carly: Absolutely.

Carly: And that’s like 22% of our Australian population.

Carly: So it’s a very decent, decent size you’re talking about here.

Carly: And that’s why it’s really exciting to be talking to you about this program, where it’s come from, where it is now, but also where it’s going.

Carly: And I love that you talk around the travel piece, because I’d love to get into that a little bit later around why people would associate their telecom with travel and how you’re bringing that into play.

Carly: But first, there was a great piece of comment that you made in one of the conversations we’ve had previously around moments that determine where a customer stays.

Carly: And I really, really like this.

Carly: And it’s such a great proposition, because you’re not just talking just conventional points programs.

Carly: So do you want to expand on that a little bit?

Tomas: Yeah, for sure.

Tomas: And I think Telco and kind of subscription businesses or even utility businesses are in a different, I think, state from a loyalty perspective.

Tomas: They’re really not trying to get that next purchase or maybe trying to get customers to increase their basket size.

Tomas: Although, you know, all of those things are great, but really what they’re trying to do is make sure that customers see value and kind of decide to stay, commit to holding on.

Tomas: There’s not as many moments that you kind of need to convince it as kind of a decision.

Tomas: You need to make sure that they just feel comfortable and want to stay in a same value in your brand.

Tomas: And so really, you know, the mechanics of a loyalty program work, but they can’t just sit as transactions alone.

Tomas: They need to be really kind of embedded into moments that that customer is experiencing either in their outside life or at Telstra or at Telco themselves.

Tomas: And so it’s really about moving beyond the fact that a customer is using our services every day and how do we show up more than just that usage of the service.

Tomas: So kind of, you know, if we’re in millions of customers’ hands connecting them every day, how do we show up differently and how do we show up more?

Tomas: And then how does that influence their loyalty for our brand and for Telstra overall?

Carly: This is really important because I think, especially when you mentioned, you know, being with the business for 17 years, you will personally have seen such a change across the business.

Carly: And going from the Thanks program, where it was more largely transactional, let’s say, to the current format.

Carly: What do you think has changed the business’s approach to the loyalty program?

Carly: What’s changed your thinking towards it?

Tomas: Yeah, I think there’s a few different things.

Tomas: In the business itself has evolved.

Tomas: We were, during our previous strategies, we really simplified our business and moved to no-locking contracts.

Tomas: And so, unlike other telcos across Australia and across the world where you might be contracted for that particular service, all of our services are month to month, like a subscription.

Tomas: And so, loyalty becomes a really important lever because if a customer is not locked in, like a typical telco maybe a long time ago, then kind of that need and want to stay becomes really important.

Tomas: So, loyalty was born in Telstra, this kind of new Telstra Plus was born in a similar time at the company.

Tomas: And so, it was seen as a real strategic lever.

Tomas: And the program’s been going great, growing to the membership we were talking about before.

Tomas: But I think where we’re starting to see it evolve is that kind of just having points isn’t necessarily enough.

Tomas: Just having rewards isn’t necessarily enough to really get customers to see value, enough to influence them on how they feel and enough to influence them on maybe decisions that they might have to make.

Tomas: I think probably one of the other interesting observations is where Telstra Plus sits within our company.

Tomas: And so, it actually sits as a part of the digital business, which is where I’m from.

Tomas: And so, that’s different to a lot of programs.

Tomas: And I think that really stems from our view that kind of digital is a really key layer and key way into the program.

Tomas: And so, having it sit close to digital and having it sit close to the customer means that all of the other parts of the business can still leverage it, but it really unlocks the kind of speed and velocity to deliver experiences.

Carly: This is such a great point actually, because as we’ve said, you are the digital customer success and the group owner of this area of the business.

Carly: It’s a unique place for loyalty to sit traditionally.

Carly: What does that mean inside of Telco?

Carly: What is success then?

Carly: How did it end up in the digital space?

Carly: And I love the fact that you mentioned that it does then give everyone access to the loyalty program in itself.

Tomas: Yeah, I mean, it’s sitting in success, I think, is it’s, you know, now that it’s here is kind of in my view, why don’t all loyalty programs sit in this place?

Tomas: Because I mean, in customer success, we’re all about kind of making customers’ lives easier, solving their customer service issues and really making their, I suppose, their time at Telstra successful, if that makes sense.

Tomas: And so loyalty is kind of something that then is earned, right?

Tomas: And so how the customer experience shows up and how digital innovation shows up really then contributes back into the feeling of loyalty overall.

Tomas: It’s more than the program.

Tomas: And as I said, the points in the office, it comes down to, if you’re not creating a great customer experience, then how can you kind of build loyalty on top of that?

Tomas: So I think that really adds a unique perspective.

Tomas: I think the other part is the technology angle.

Tomas: And we’re seeing this a lot with AI.

Tomas: Every presentation or every conversation tends to gravitate to AI, but it’s a real thing, right?

Tomas: And so being able to leverage that technology that is already being leveraged to deliver great customer experiences, then becomes something that you lay a loyalty on to deliver something even more surprising to a customer and something that not only meets their expectations, but exceeds it.

Carly: Are you able to share with us a little bit around how you measure?

Carly: This is a really interesting one, especially because of the size of the Telstra network and the Telstra business, and then you overlay the program.

Carly: I mean, we could say, as much as no customers are in a locked-in contract, it is one of the largest networks in the country, so there’s this.

Carly: And also, switching can still be a bit of a pain for customers and even if you’re not locked in, you’re still going to go through the hassle of actually switching.

Carly: How do you measure people starting for loyalty versus, it was probably just easier to stay?

Tomas: Yeah, I think there’s obviously multiple things that are influencing how a customer feels about a brand.

Tomas: Like you say, there’s the network, the brand itself.

Tomas: There’s loyalty to all different elements of a company.

Tomas: And so what we really do look at is our core metric is what we call a retention differential.

Tomas: And that’s really looking at exactly what you said, those customers that are in our program, engaging in our program, and how does that retention differ from those other cohorts of customers?

Tomas: And then what we really try and do is drill into, what are the actual levers that are making that differential stand out?

Tomas: So is it them participating in our more rewards-based programs like discounts of movie tickets or presales, or is it more them really engaging in the points engine?

Tomas: And then how does that kind of differ?

Tomas: It is a delicate art, I think, and a science to really lay that down.

Tomas: And I don’t think you could ever get it black and white, this customer stayed because of this one single thing.

Tomas: But I think all of those influencing factors come together.

Tomas: And then really you can then figure out, okay, well, how do I do more of that particular item to that particular cohort of customers, give them more visibility?

Tomas: And so I think all of that comes together.

Tomas: But truly, I think, and it should be for a lot of loyalty programs, that retention is your main, your core metric you should be looking at to drive whether what you’re doing is working or not.

Tomas: But I suppose it can’t be the only metric, obviously.

Tomas: Commercials are really important.

Tomas: The other kind of ancillary benefits that come from the program.

Tomas: But yeah, looking at the whole picture is really important.

Carly: You mentioned your ancillary benefits.

Carly: And I love to ask you more, because I know there’s a bit of a really great growth path for the partnerships and things you’re bringing in.

Carly: How do you define this for a customer or a member?

Carly: Because sometimes in loyalty, one of the best ways to structure this is, what would they give up by leaving?

Carly: So if they’re going to exit and they’re going to leave the program, what sort of benefits, rewards, partnerships are they going to start to give up?

Carly: This can be a really important differentiator and obviously a retention tool.

Tomas: Yes.

Tomas: I think you really need to be giving customers benefits that they aren’t getting anywhere else.

Tomas: This is really difficult in a time where there’s lots of other, not only loyalty programs, but just experiences that customers can gain access to.

Tomas: Being able to offer someone something different that really does speak to them and give them a benefit is really important.

Tomas: And so that could be access to the movie tickets, or it could be access to travel discounts or other areas that are more experiential.

Tomas: But I think the key thingy there is it needs to be something that someone else can’t copy, something that does feel different and feels unique to your program, and something that is exclusive to Telstra Plus.

Tomas: And so that doesn’t necessarily mean that it can’t be the exact same offering, but it needs to have that different layer or that extra element that’s added on top.

Carly: Yeah, for sure.

Carly: And we talked about this a bit earlier, but also you’ve mentioned it again around, how do we communicate and how do we bring the customers along the journey when they’re thinking around your partnerships and the ones you’re bringing in?

Carly: So it might be really logical for someone to go airline, lounge pass, how do we get them to think around Telco and travel?

Carly: And why would that be a logical fit?

Tomas: Yeah, I think there’s two things with travel.

Tomas: One, and I kind of touched on it earlier in my favorite loyalty program, is that travel is already a really emotional state, right?

Tomas: You’re kind of, you’re often going on a trip that maybe you’ve saved up for, or you’re going on a family holiday, and so you’re already excited.

Tomas: You’ve already got this kind of emotional connection to what you’re doing.

Tomas: And then, so that gives it a great place for you to start to play, right?

Tomas: Because if you deliver on your promise and you give something, then you get to add to that memory and you get to kind of, you know, resonate in that moment.

Tomas: But I think the other part is being a telco, customers are already trusting us to keep them connected when they’re overseas.

Tomas: And so that moment when they might come to ask and ask someone to just double check that their roaming is all switched on, and that when they land in Singapore that everything is going to be okay, they’re already coming to us.

Tomas: So it’s a real opportunity for us then to overlay our benefits and our program into that.

Tomas: And so it became a logical next step.

Tomas: We’ve got our partnership with Collinson where we offer smart delay for customers that might have their trip delayed and get access to a lounge.

Tomas: We offer the ability to book flights and accommodation.

Tomas: And back to that differentiator, the other part we offer with travel is our member pricing.

Tomas: So our members are getting genuinely discounted pricing and in a lot of cases, really competitive pricing where they save.

Tomas: So it’s kind of not just okay, book your travel with Telstra Plus because you can and because you’re thinking about us when you travel, but I’m actually going to get a value, I’m going to save.

Tomas: And so it becomes this really great place for us to play.

Paula: Most loyalty programs think the game is points and discounts.

Paula: That’s where most get it wrong.

Paula: Your program’s success depends on your entire team understanding how loyalty actually works.

Paula: From finance and operations to customer service and everything in between.

Paula: Loyalty Academy just refreshed its CLMP curriculum in July 2026, covering the latest in behavioral science, business models and execution frameworks.

Paula: Over 155 brands, including PepsiCo, Visa, Shell and Amazon have employees with their CLMP designation.

Paula: In fact, over 1300 professionals in more than 60 countries are practicing their loyalty teachings.

Paula: Loyalty Academy helps you close the knowledge gap and gives you and your team the framework that separates programs that thrive from programs that disappoint.

Paula: Visit loyaltyacademy.org/contact to customize a private CLMP training program for your organization.

Paula: That’s loyaltyacademy.org/contact.

Carly: I love the topic of emotional loyalty, and this is definitely along with AI, which we can never forget, but a pretty hot topic in 2026 so far.

Carly: What do you think, even personally and professionally, difference when we talk about emotional loyalty versus just a really valuable ecosystem that, hey, I’m getting a lot of benefit here and I’m quite liking this and I’m enjoying it.

Carly: What’s the tipping point to make it actually an emotional connection?

Carly: I liked your analogy around being involved in someone’s holiday, where it is something really valuable to them.

Carly: But generally speaking, on an everyday basis, how can we actually create emotional loyalty in your opinion?

Tomas: Yeah, I think it does come down to the moment in which that value is actually exchanged.

Tomas: And so like we talked about travel, and so it does have to…

Tomas: I don’t think you can build an emotional engagement by someone, maybe, I don’t know, earning some points on their groceries.

Tomas: But it’s not necessarily, if we take that example, it’s not necessarily the groceries, it’s the kind of the thing that’s going to come after it.

Tomas: What am I saving those points for?

Tomas: It could be, I know I’m saving those points for Christmas, and so I’m thinking about Christmas, and I’m thinking about that extra cash that I’m going to have available.

Tomas: So I think it all, when those moments happen, needs to take that kind of typical transactional reward or saving money or something, but it kind of needs to somehow tie back to that emotional connection.

Tomas: And we’ve talked about travel because that’s the easy one, but it can be just about, I don’t know, being able to save up and be able to splurge it and spend on family and buy things for family that you might not have been able to afford and being able to collect points gives you the ability to do that.

Carly: I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there because there’s quite a number of guests we’ve had that refer to that item that members and customers will use their points to redeem and they remember that item.

Carly: So I think a lot of us do, I still do.

Carly: You know which items are around your house or holidays or experiences that you’ve used your points on.

Carly: And it does actually really stay as a tally in your head.

Carly: I think that’s where we can really see this happening, right?

Tomas: Yeah, for sure.

Tomas: And I think it also comes down to, we see in customer behaviors that one of the products we just introduced is the ability for you to redeem your points to save on your actual Telstra bill.

Tomas: So a really kind of tangible thing, especially with rising cost of living, it’s really important to give customers real tangible value.

Tomas: But the interesting behavior is that we don’t see customers clearing out their point balance.

Tomas: They leave some points.

Tomas: And my personal opinion, we’re still doing some research into the exact drivers on this.

Tomas: But if we take back what we were just talking about, that part of that is driven by the fact that they do want to save some of their points to buy that special thing or that thing that they’ve been thinking about saving up for, or maybe treat someone because at the end of the day, the points have been earned and they want to make sure that they’re getting both ends of the value, true actual value, and something more emotional or something that they feel a little bit more connected to.

Carly: And they’re kind of free almost, in your head, in your mental past.

Carly: Exactly.

Carly: Your points balance there.

Carly: I want a little bit of a treat to myself because it’s kind of a free item.

Carly: Now one that we obviously have to talk about is AI in your loyalty program, that there’s no question.

Carly: Can you give us any real examples or talk just a little bit about how Telstra Plus is using AI in your loyalty program and where that’s looking for you guys?

Tomas: Yeah, and I think there’s probably like the today view and we’ve been, in my view anyway, frontiers on kind of using AI and machine learning and all the different incarnations of how you use data to deliver better experiences.

Tomas: And probably the biggest one is in how we use it for recommendations and how we use it for making sure that we get the right products in front of customers.

Tomas: So customers are saving up their points and a big part of our program is being able to redeem those points on something you want or you value.

Tomas: But if there’s hundreds of things, how do we get the right things in front of those customers so that they then decide that today is the moment they’re going to splurge and redeem.

Tomas: And so one of our biggest success stories is our recommendation engine that we built in house that runs on multiple different models and uses lots of behavioral insights to really recommend that right product at the right time.

Tomas: And even has things built into it to check stock availability, so if we’re sending out a big email and we’re recommending certain products to customers, that we have the right amount of stock in there.

Tomas: So we’re using AI to really kind of deliver on that experience.

Tomas: And I think now that probably is just table stakes and basic use of AI.

Tomas: But it’s kind of, if you didn’t have that, then you wouldn’t be able to deliver those experiences at that scale.

Tomas: But I think where it’s kind of going to is that AI is becoming mainstream.

Tomas: It’s being adopted faster than any other kind of technological change, like mobile apps or websites.

Tomas: We think that they moved fast, but AI is, and kind of at-home AI, if you want to call it that, is moving really fast.

Tomas: In Australia, there was a Roy Morgan survey where over 55% of customers, sorry, Australians, have used it in a four-week period.

Tomas: And so that’s a massive amount of customers or people, sorry, that are adopting this technology.

Tomas: So I think the interesting thing there is that if they’re experiencing AI in a way in their own personal lives, then this growing expectation of how AI is used and how it’s used to improve value, the expectation that customers have on brands, it really goes to the next level.

Tomas: And so I think how we use the technology ourselves to make the experience better and make it easier to deliver value to customers, but then how do we find those experiences that they’re now expecting from us and deliver them for us and it’s no longer competing maybe against the next telco or the next loyalty program, but actually competing against the experience that they’re having every day.

Carly: Yeah, you’re right.

Carly: And I think this is exactly the point.

Carly: It’s becoming the baseline.

Carly: I think in the next six months, we won’t be talking about AI in any industry, anymore, because it is the baseline now that we…

Carly: It’s like expected part of our lives.

Carly: It’s just there.

Carly: It’s not a presentation topic anymore.

Carly: We just expect it to be there as a standard and as our general baseline in business and in loyalty.

Carly: Do you see, and if you can talk to us about this with Telstra Plus, how you’re using AI particularly for retention and keeping and identifying maybe moments that a customer is going to leave.

Carly: Like if I call up the call center or is there any particular, my bill increases or particular points that AI can identify that, hey, should I be looking to leave us now?

Tomas: Yeah, I think one of the things we do obviously track is kind of customer sentiment overall and how the network and how everything that’s happening for that customer on a certain day could be influencing how they feel about our brand and how they feel about Telstra.

Tomas: I think that comes back to the customer is not just loyal to the loyalty program, they’re loyal to the network, the brand, the experience, everything needs to play its part.

Tomas: We’re not necessarily listening to those signals and having the program make all of the decisions.

Tomas: There’s lots of other interventions that could happen to make sure that that customer stays or that they feel valued.

Tomas: But where the loyalty program can play a role is things like maybe those cohort of customers might get a different price on a certain item or offer a certain amount of points or really kind of where does the loyalty program need to step in and deliver that value.

Tomas: And sometimes it’s not the loyalty program’s role.

Tomas: It needs to be something more tangible.

Tomas: It needs to be something that’s tied back to those bigger influences and those bigger levers.

Tomas: So I think it’s important to track the retention and how that works and how that influences.

Tomas: But it’s not always the loyalty program’s job to intervene.

Tomas: It can be other levers.

Tomas: So yeah, I think that’s really important.

Tomas: And I think AI really just makes that, as I said, kind of with the recommendations example, AI is just making that easier and to do it scale.

Tomas: There was a long time ago that trying to do that for the amount of customers that we have or the amount of members that we have, just to do that at a personalized level wouldn’t be possible.

Tomas: And so I think AI is changing the expectations, but it’s also changing the way that we can deliver those personalized experiences that matter.

Carly: Now, one question I absolutely have to ask you, but it may be totally irrelevant, so let’s check.

Carly: Because I feel like with Telstra Plus, it has been around for such a long time in different iterations, and it’s so ingrained in the business.

Carly: When we talk about economics, proving to say you’re CFO, let’s say, to say, this is super valuable, it is not just a big cost center.

Carly: How do you communicate internally within the business around the value, the incremental value and the economics of Telstra Plus versus all of those other factors that even you just mentioned, whether it’s brand and general experience?

Tomas: It’s definitely an evolving topic, and I think there’s different ways to measure the value that the program is delivering.

Tomas: And I think the way that I look at it is focusing on two different ways.

Tomas: One is the direct value that the program is generating, and how we associate that direct value.

Tomas: Hand on heart, you can say this lever happens, and this is the output, and this was the commercial outcome that happened, and I’m going to bank that money in my plan.

Tomas: And then the other one is that indirect narrative that you can create, that has commercial mechanics attached to it, but you might not be able to hand on heart, say, I influenced that metric.

Tomas: We’re an influencer of those core elements.

Tomas: And that might be the retention differential we spoke to.

Tomas: We might not be able to claim that full sphere, but how could we claim our influence on that?

Tomas: And so I think it comes down to having a mix of both of those, having the indirect and the direct metrics that you can really bring together in a narrative.

Tomas: And I think then there’s those non-financial metrics.

Tomas: And so obviously we’re influencing at that customer experience layer.

Tomas: So what’s the differential from a customer experience layer?

Tomas: And so once you get those indirect, direct and then customer experience layers and really building that holistic narrative that grows together.

Tomas: And I don’t think I’m not going to sit here and claim that we’ve got it completely right and that I’ve got this beautiful narrative that I go up and sell every day.

Tomas: But definitely it’s I think an evolving conversation.

Tomas: Not to mention AI again, but again, that is kind of helping us to unlock the measurement and unlock and really be able to understand the levers and understand massive data sets of information to be able to quantify and really explain how those different levers, be it direct or indirect benefit, add up and then come together as a kind of full value story.

Carly: Thank you.

Carly: Like I said, it can be a tricky one that you’ve been around for a while.

Carly: The podcast has been around for a while.

Carly: Whether you’re still having those same justifying conversations or whether it’s now around how we’re measuring and how we’re really showing it.

Carly: Yeah.

Tomas: And I don’t think it ever comes down to justify why you exist, which is great, great not to go into those conversations.

Tomas: But there’s always conversations that pop up where someone really wants to understand.

Tomas: How does the, and so I think that’s probably the good thing.

Tomas: It generally comes from place of wanting to understand the value that we deliver, not necessarily challenging the value that we deliver, which is a great space to be in.

Carly: Yes, definitely.

Carly: You’re a tiered program.

Carly: What are some of the ways you can motivate and get your members moving through the tiers?

Carly: And the reason I asked this one, because it was, you know, tiered programs can be quite common in the loyalty industry.

Carly: However, this is tied to, I have to also be part of, you know, telco product from you, and is there only a certain level of telco I can use from one provider?

Carly: So how else can you move your members through the tiers?

Tomas: Yeah, I think ultimately with our program, it is about having more services with Telstra and having all of your services to get to that level to be, say, a gold member in our program.

Tomas: And that is the primary way that kind of customers get to the gold tier.

Tomas: We have experimented in the past with, you know, maybe selecting one of our premium plans might accelerate you to that tier.

Tomas: It’s not something we have in the program at the moment, but we’ve definitely experimented in that place.

Tomas: But I think tiers are an interesting thing.

Tomas: They’re both tangible and non-tangible in a way, because customers feel special about being, say, a gold member, but it’s not necessarily that they need to every day feel some form of difference and some form of value that comes in.

Tomas: That recognition and that emotional attachment to being a gold member is actually really valuable, not just in our program, but programs across the world kind of use that as an emotional thing, not necessarily just a 100% hard linked tangible thing.

Tomas: And so I think it is an interesting space and something we’ve kind of definitely looked at and are always looking to evolve around how do you recognize customers that maybe, to your point, have all of their telco services that they have available to them to buy, and then maybe are still, say, a silver member, but maybe have the aspiration to become gold.

Tomas: But I think coming with that is also how we make sure that at the end of the day, whether you’re silver, whether you’re gold, whether you’re a member, whether you’re a business tier, you are still a Telstra Plus customer or member, and then you’re also part of Telstra.

Tomas: It’s a really interesting one where we need to make sure that we don’t differentiate our tiers too far, then a customer doesn’t feel like they’re still getting the premium service that Telstra is here to provide them.

Tomas: Being able to differentiate, but I don’t think take it too far and rely on some of the more emotional elements to kind of do that role.

Carly: Yeah, absolutely.

Carly: I think you’re right.

Carly: That distinction between business and program, and they still need to feel loved from the business, even if, let’s say, you’re in the bronze tier, you still love the core business and you’ll still get the Telco services and quality that they would expect.

Tomas: Exactly, yeah.

Carly: What about yourself?

Carly: Do you have a really high points balance yourself?

Carly: Are you cranking through the Telstra Plus points yourself?

Carly: And what’s the last thing you’ve redeemed in the program?

Tomas: I actually just redeemed all of my points until I actually did some transfers from one of our new partners.

Tomas: But I did redeem all of my points recently for a Ninja Crispy, which is an air fryer.

Tomas: And anyone listening to this is going to chuckle because I feel like every opportunity I get, I speak about this.

Tomas: But I think it just comes down to something that like, I redeemed my points because I saw value in something.

Tomas: And then I’m literally using it every day.

Tomas: And I think about that, I, you know, to your point, the points were free.

Tomas: I got this wonderful piece of, you know.

Tomas: I know exactly.

Tomas: Yeah.

Carly: Every meal now can feel special.

Carly: And that emotional connection is right there.

Tomas: Yeah, exactly.

Tomas: Yeah.

Carly: That’s fantastic.

Carly: That’s fantastic.

Carly: So let’s do a little bit of industry thoughts from yourself.

Carly: You’re a loyalty expert.

Carly: You’ve been in Telstra for a number of years.

Carly: What are some of the game changes that you see coming?

Carly: Any predictions or thoughts on our industry as a whole?

Tomas: I think there is this growing change from that the transactions can’t exist on their own.

Tomas: I think everyone’s kind of talking about that.

Tomas: It’s been kind of an emerging thing.

Tomas: The transactions like the earning of points, the redemption, the reward all are really important.

Tomas: But if they don’t tie back to a moment or tie back at the right time, then they start to kind of erode their value and just become an expectation and something that kind of I just assume that I’m going to get.

Tomas: And so therefore, the benefit of that to the program or to the business starts to erode.

Tomas: So I think that’s only going to get stronger.

Tomas: I think that expectation of customers of what they want and how they want the loyalty program and the brands to show up differently for them in those moments.

Tomas: I think that’s probably one of the ones for me.

Tomas: I think, you know, you mentioned Loyalty Expert, but I kind of have only really been doing loyalty in its proper form for the last few years.

Tomas: It kind of my core, a digital innovation kind of customer service expert, I would say, is probably my closer thing.

Tomas: And I think that’s the other change.

Tomas: It’s all blending together, right?

Tomas: A really important thing is a great customer experience builds loyalty and then a loyalty program gets to build on top of that great customer experience.

Tomas: So at the core, making that brilliant customer experience really matters first before you can start to play and bring in true loyalty mechanics.

Tomas: So that’s probably the other place.

Tomas: And then the third thing would be technology.

Tomas: I think we’ve spoken about AI, but that’s not really the only technology innovation that’s happening.

Tomas: Customers are comparing the experiences they have every day to the next brand and to the next experience that they have.

Tomas: And so you’ve got lots of companies across the world really stepping up the experiences that they deliver to customers, whether that’s a mobile app or an in-person digital experience or AI.

Tomas: And so how you keep up with that innovation and that technology is really critical to evolving a program.

Tomas: And luckily, that’s a big passion of mine.

Tomas: I’m a self-confessed nerd.

Tomas: I love technology, love gadgets and experiences that add value to being able to play in that space and bring that to life for loyalty and customer service is really exciting.

Carly: I love your views on that.

Carly: I totally agree.

Carly: And this is an interesting part around AI, accelerating the ability for programs and businesses to meet customers where they need to, but also customers comparing the comparative ability.

Carly: It’s going to be a very interesting time, that’s for sure.

Carly: And making everybody really step up their game.

Carly: That’s no doubt about it.

Carly: Thank you so much, Tomas.

Carly: I’ve really, really loved chatting with you today.

Carly: Thank you for talking about Telstra and Telstra Plus.

Carly: And also we’ll have to watch out what new partners that are coming along after the travel integration.

Tomas: Yeah, for sure.

Tomas: Thank you so much for having me.

Carly: Thank you.

Paula: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketeer Group, operating the Wise Marketeer and Loyalty Academy.

Paula: For nearly 25 years, the Wise Marketer is the industry’s longest serving publication and source for news, information and insights, which now includes its own branded industry research, insights and advice.

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