Canningvale: Building More Valuable Loyalty (#808)

Paula: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Paula: If you work in loyalty marketing, join us every week to hear the latest ideas and insights for loyalty marketing specialists around the world.

Carly: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Carly: My name is Carly Neubauer.

Carly: I’m the managing director of Elevate Loyalty and Loyalty Economics.

Carly: My guest today is Roz Travers-Hucker, head of marketing at Canningvale Australia and a long-term accomplished loyalty professional.

Carly: If you work in loyalty marketing, join us every week to hear the latest ideas and insights from other loyalty experts from all around the world.

Carly: Hello and welcome, Roz, to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Carly: So great to be chatting with you today.

Roz: Thank you for having me.

Carly: So what we do for every episode is kick off with two key questions.

Carly: The first one being, tell us about your favorite book, Business Loyalty or other.

Carly: What do you like to read?

Carly: What’s your favorite book?

Roz: I think I’ll share my favorite business book, which is FYI for your improvement.

Roz: It’s basically an encyclopedia of professional development.

Roz: My CEO gave it to me about 15 years ago, and it’s really helpful for myself in my own work and managing a big team.

Roz: Everything’s spelled out really clearly with all of the different skills that you need in business basically, and it breaks everything down really simply.

Roz: It’s like a business skills for dummies, super practical.

Roz: It’s about $100 on Amazon.

Roz: Everyone who I’ve lent the book to absolutely loves it.

Carly: Sounds like the best guide ever and the best $100 you can ever spend by the sounds of it.

Roz: Absolutely.

Carly: Awesome.

Roz: Thank you.

Carly: That will definitely go on the Let’s Talk Loyalty book list.

Carly: We’d love to have a really solid list of books to recommend to all of our listeners and viewers.

Carly: Let’s move on to the next big question though.

Carly: Being a loyalty professional yourself, which one is your favorite loyalty progo to engage with?

Roz: Yeah, that would have to be the MyDance membership for sure.

Roz: I think from a customer point of view, the value is so obvious as soon as you sign up.

Roz: Then from a loyalty professional’s point of view, I think they’re nailing the personalization.

Roz: They really seem to know me and my household’s drinking habits.

Roz: They can see that we’re moving from a Barossa Shiraz in the winter, to a Margaret River Chardonnay in the summer, and then year-round, we’re bourbon drinkers.

Roz: They’re really good at putting some new releases right in the palm of my hand through all of their columns.

Roz: I really do think that they know me and I think it’s doing a great job of being helpful without, you know, I think sometimes, you know, we laugh about it being too creepy, too helpful.

Roz: I think they’re balancing that really well.

Carly: Fantastic.

Carly: And for anyone who may not know, this is the Dan Murphy’s Loyalty Program, and it can be a tricky space when you’re dealing in liquor and loyalty.

Carly: So they seem to be doing a really, really great job, especially understanding you, but as you said, without being too creepy, there’s a line, of course.

Roz: Yeah, definitely.

Roz: I think if you go into the store as well, like the team have a really good handle on it, like you can see the program across all of the channels.

Roz: It’s really obvious.

Roz: You can tell that they’ve done a great job of embedding it across all of their channels and their whole business as well.

Carly: Yes, congrats.

Carly: They have.

Carly: They’ve spent a fair bit of time with that.

Carly: Now, before we start talking about your loyalty experience and the program you’re currently running, let’s say a big shout out and congratulations.

Carly: You’ve recently won quite a special award.

Roz: Thank you.

Roz: Yes, it’s very exciting for us.

Roz: So the award is Canstar’s Most Satisfied Customers in Bath Towers 2026.

Roz: For our friends overseas, Canstar is a comparison site that’s really highly regarded in Australia.

Roz: So this is a very strong endorsement.

Roz: So Canningvale, we’re a family owned business in textiles and our core message is that we bring quality and comfort to every home for over 45 years.

Roz: And we’re celebrating our 49th birthday in a month’s time, which is quite exciting.

Roz: Very good.

Roz: Yeah, it’s really exciting for the team because I think we’re an underdog of the industry.

Roz: So what Canstar told us is we’ve had quite a few surveys of their database saying they love Canningvale.

Roz: Once you try Canningvale, you’ll never try another brand.

Roz: But we just never had that brand awareness to really get us to make the shortlist for the award.

Roz: So this is the first time we’ve made the shortlist and we’ve taken out the award as well.

Roz: I think the big thing that’s really had the impact on us winning that award is for the last 12 months, we’ve been laser focused on customer acquisition.

Roz: And to do that, we’ve really worked on our brand awareness, our top of funnel campaigns, and then working on converting those new site businesses to leads through loyalty and CRM, and then converting those leads to first time buyers as well.

Roz: Plus, 50 years of textiles knowledge as well to make sure the product is five stars.

Carly: That’s so great.

Carly: And yeah, like I’ve said, a big congratulations, especially so early in your participation in the award, but then to take it out and win as well.

Carly: That’s really, really fantastic.

Roz: Yeah, the team’s ecstatic.

Carly: Good stuff.

Carly: So before we start talking more around the current program and the Canningvale program, how did you land in the loyalty world?

Carly: Tell us about your experience in the lead-up because it’s great to chat with you today, Roz.

Carly: You’ve got such a fantastic loyalty experience and have run some really big programs prior to this one.

Carly: So let’s go back a couple and tell us about what you’ve done, where you’ve been and some of the ins and outs of those.

Carly: Yeah, sure.

Roz: I spent the first few years of my career really trying on lots of different things.

Roz: I had work experience in charities, banking, restaurants, as many things as I could get my teeth into, which was really exciting.

Roz: And then I got my first proper job at Caterpillar Machinery and I was parking my little bomb of a car next to a massive bulldozer.

Roz: And that was really exciting for my first real job, working with such an amazing brand.

Roz: But I think working in a big conservative company, it made me realize that I really wanted to try something that’s a bit more fast paced, a bit more agile.

Roz: Something where I can have more of an impact on that brand as well.

Roz: And back in the day when I was at Caterpillar, it was a three month turnaround to get some artwork signed off by global head office.

Roz: I was like, no, this is…

Carly: Not as fast paced as you’re hoping for.

Roz: I just like to speed things up just a little bit, Carly.

Roz: And so I had a few different roles sort of moving to that faster paced, which I really enjoyed.

Roz: But I think the one that really changed everything for me and really gave me that taste of loyalty was working at Best Friends Group.

Roz: So for our friends in the USA, it’s basically like a pet smart.

Roz: And then in the UK, it’s like a pets at home.

Roz: So big box retail, pet industry with complimentary services as well.

Roz: What was great about that is it was owned by Andrew Muir, who used to own The Good Guys, which is a really sophisticated white goods, I guess, business in Australia.

Roz: And so for a startup in the pet industry, we had amazing disciplines around data, loyalty, technology, reporting, everything.

Roz: For a startup, it was very sophisticated.

Roz: And we were doing things in 2011 that some brands today are getting quite excited to do for the first time.

Roz: So I think for us, it was a really great business.

Roz: And the numbers showed that as well.

Roz: We had basically double digit growth at EBITDA year on year for eight, nine years.

Roz: It was incredible.

Roz: And then COVID happened and it grew exponentially from there.

Roz: So with the Loyalty Program at Best Friends, it really was the foundation of everything that we did.

Roz: So it was across every department.

Roz: Everyone knew the importance.

Roz: Everyone was pushing on how can we evolve this?

Roz: How can we use this as a real driver to grow the business?

Roz: And it was really important for us as well.

Roz: So yeah, to have such a big part of my career focused on the Loyalty Program and then everything else really revolving around that has really set me up for success, I think.

Carly: Absolutely.

Carly: Tell us some of the key outtakes from that one, because as you said, it set you up and it was so well structured.

Carly: What were some of the best things that you saw working in that program?

Roz: Yeah, I think because we tracked, I think it was about 90, 95 percent of transactions right across the entire business.

Roz: The data that we had to then make a business case or different decisions on, what is our customer offer?

Roz: How are we going to get new customers?

Roz: That really, I think, gave us the confidence to make those decisions and then chase such incredible growth year on year.

Roz: So like for us, we had our main loyalty program, which was just the VIP Pet Care Club, nice and simple.

Roz: But then we also had a paid pet membership program as well called Complete Care.

Roz: So like as an example of how we’ve used the VIP Pet Care Club to help grow the business and acquire new customers, we were doing surveys all the time.

Roz: We had incredible transactional data, but then also amazing qualitative data as well.

Roz: So we really knew what was important to the customers.

Roz: Most people watching will know of the dog toy brand, Kong.

Roz: That’s definitely a big toy brand in Australia as well.

Roz: And so what we found is that most of our customers who are dog owners, the main thing that they cared about was, apart from pet health and wellness, was that fun interaction with their pet as well.

Roz: So knowing this, knowing our customers, we worked really closely with Kong to have the biggest range of Kong toys in any pet store in Australia and with the VIP Pet Care Club membership, they got 10% off Kong every day.

Roz: So being able to get the data, use the insight, pick the right partner, add a bit of supplier funding as well, that really helps the store growth and acquisition of new customers.

Carly: This is brilliant.

Carly: Alibi, you’ve come through from the data and transaction insight point of view, then also the partner ecosystem because you’re right, the partners that we embed into our loyalty programs can be so important as well.

Carly: Then of course, what are the VRPs getting out of this?

Carly: The fact that you understood them to know exactly what would be the most valuable to those members.

Roz: Yeah, absolutely.

Roz: I think also then following on from that, because you’ve got the business case, you’ve got the data, and then you’ve got a line in the sand of when we executed that program and put the comms out, then we can measure the impact on, what does that mean for customer frequency?

Roz: How many more customers are buying comms toys?

Roz: You can really see with those key loyalty metrics, I mean, basically RFM, what is the step change that we’ve gotten from that?

Roz: Then once we’ve nailed comms, what’s next?

Carly: Nice.

Carly: From here, where did you go next?

Roz: Then at Best Friends, we thought, well, our main loyalty program is working so well, but how can we really get more of our Best Friends customers to use our services, specifically our vet clinics?

Roz: That brings us to the juiciest one, Carly.

Roz: So then we created Complete Care.

Roz: And so Complete Care is a paid pet wellness program.

Roz: It was about $500 a year per pet.

Roz: And this was a really ambitious program.

Roz: So the vision for the program was to get more people to engage in our services and have them sticky to our vet.

Roz: So a lot of people shop around for food, general merchandise, grooming salons, even their vet clinics.

Roz: And so the idea behind Complete Care was to really maximize that share of wallet with our business.

Roz: And so we thought, well, what are going to be all of the things that a pet parent will want from Complete Care?

Roz: And there are similar programs out there in Australia and around the world.

Roz: And so setting this up, I think, it was very ambitious and potentially too generous.

Carly: I was wondering where the juicy part was coming in.

Roz: Yes.

Roz: So I think, I think, you know, a lot of people, you know, you tell them that you work in loyalty and they say, oh, that sounds really fun.

Roz: I think this is a pretty good example of loyalty is actually really hard.

Roz: Very satisfying, you know, when you get the results that you want.

Roz: But, you know, when you, when you care about margin, profit.

Carly: So simple business things that we should care about.

Carly: Margin, profit, you know.

Roz: Running a great program is actually really hard.

Roz: So with, with Complete Care, we gave 20 percent off everything store-wide, free unlimited vet consultations, 20 percent off all services as well, free puppy preschool.

Roz: And the view from the business was these were our best customers.

Roz: And internally, we were running the numbers and, you know, everything seemed right, like it was, it was great.

Roz: We’ve got that $500 a year to cover all of those different things.

Roz: But as we grew and we signed up more members, it became obvious that we really needed to call in some experts to get those loyalty economics super clear, so that we really understood what was happening with the profitability of the program.

Roz: The other challenge that we had with Complete Care is that staffing for vets is really hard.

Roz: So it’s notoriously hard.

Roz: So even with the right program, the ops side of it was very challenging.

Roz: And when you’ve got someone who’s paid $500 for a program, for free, unlimited consultations, they want those consultations.

Roz: And when you’re short staffed and you can’t staff the consultation, the Complete Care member gets upset.

Carly: There’s so much I want to ask you about this, Roz.

Roz: I think, yeah.

Carly: Was it valuable when you ran the numbers and when you did some analysis, what did that show?

Roz: It showed a really mixed result.

Roz: And so what the agency that helped us do was look at all of the different types of complete care members and what they were actually engaging with.

Roz: And so we could tell out of the members who were buying a lot more food than average, or using grooming a lot more than average, buying more general merchandise than average, we could see all of those different cohorts and the profitability of each one.

Roz: But I think what was most interesting is alongside this work, we surveyed the customers to find out out of everything with Complete Care, and this is along their whole journey, what did they actually value versus what are they just using?

Roz: And so for a lot of the members, the program was really about peace of mind for their pet and that relationship with the vet.

Roz: But where we were really struggling with the profitability, wasn’t with the vet side, it was with the 20% off general merchandise that was unfunded.

Roz: It was with the 20% off food, it was with 20% off grooming services as well.

Roz: So how funny that the things that were impacting profitability negatively, the members actually weren’t that fussed about.

Roz: So that puts us in a really good position knowing the numbers and knowing what members care about to then re-work the program.

Carly: That is brilliant insights because I was going to ask you, is this more the generosity piece, a bit more of a euphemism to just giving away margin, but the fact that you’ve matched what the customers really want versus what is actually profitable for the program is brilliant.

Carly: So what did you do next?

Carly: How did you action this?

Roz: Yeah, so I think because we knew what the members really wanted and they cared most about, we were able to, I guess, take those members on the journey of, we’re improving the things that members are telling us, you like the most, and then we’re making some changes to these other things.

Roz: And I think because of the data that we had, we were really confident in making those updates.

Roz: So I think something that I really wanted to flag that I found fascinating, to be honest, is that one of the things that the members said in the qualitative data, was that they really liked feeling special at the checkout.

Roz: And so in-store, I mean, how many people have a physical card, where they actually scan it, and then your loyalty profile pops up?

Roz: Hardly anyone.

Roz: Complete Care members loved showing that special sparkly navy blue card with Complete Care.

Roz: And then the reaction from the team, oh, Complete Care member, excellent.

Roz: Oh, you get 20% off that today.

Roz: Those little, I guess, moments of truth across the whole customer journey, being able to have those moments, get that feedback from the customers that, this is important to them.

Roz: This is something that helps with those, I think Adam Posner calls it moments of joylty.

Roz: But having those moments and then telling the operations team that, hey, our Complete Care members really love it when you do this.

Roz: While we’re making those big updates to the program, to give them more of what they wanted and see the value in, and then scaling back some of these other things that killing margin and aren’t that important compared to the other benefits anyway.

Roz: Being able to do that at the same time really gives you the confidence to move forward with these big wholesale changes.

Carly: Absolutely.

Carly: Thank you so much.

Carly: I love hearing about these programs that you’ve worked through, and then how to action change, because that can be super tricky making a change to a program.

Carly: It’s one thing launching and designing and managing a program.

Carly: The minute you start making changes, members will always have an opinion of some kind.

Carly: So this is really great.

Carly: Tell us about Canningvale.

Carly: That’s the business you’re in now and the program that you’re managing now.

Carly: Let’s talk about that.

Roz: Yeah, I think it’s another really great business where we’re able to embed loyalty into every touchpoint.

Roz: I think going from omni-channel retail with a few different programs to Canningvale where it’s one channel can really manage that customer experience right across everything.

Roz: It’s been really fun to be honest, being able to look at every single customer touchpoint, what are those moments of truth and how can we embed our program into that.

Roz: I think also because in my role in Canningvale, I’m head of marketing so I look after all brand and columns, retail trade, loyalty, CRM, a bit of digital.

Roz: I’ve got over thought across so many different areas.

Roz: I’ve been able to really make a point of making sure that our program is visible and embedded into every part of the customer experience, which has been great.

Carly: And that’s really powerful.

Carly: I mean, it’s a big workload, number one.

Carly: It’s also really powerful, as you said, that you’ve got the loyalty passion early on.

Carly: But to now make sure that’s overlaid through every touch point, as you said, but also the entire business experience from a marketing perspective.

Roz: Yeah, definitely.

Roz: I think as well, it’s been really great to see the program grow with the business as well.

Roz: So when I started, it was basically blank canvas.

Roz: The business already believed in loyalty.

Roz: And I think with Canningvale especially, something that I really love about the business is, there’s this great spirit of generosity.

Roz: And so with the loyalty program, the mandate from the owners of the business was, this isn’t just your regular loyalty program that we want, this is an opportunity for us to demonstrate our loyalty to our customers as well, which is great.

Carly: Brilliant message.

Carly: How does it work?

Carly: What are the facets of the program itself?

Carly: So tiers, what are we getting in the program?

Carly: What’s the construct?

Roz: Yeah, it’s a three-tier program, and you earn points, and then it’s super easy to redeem those points for rewards.

Roz: It’s really generous.

Roz: You basically get 10 percent of your spend back on your next order, and it’s super easy to earn extra points along the way as well.

Roz: So we’ve been able to see really great growth in customer acquisition and the quantity of members in our very top tier as well.

Roz: We use the platform YotPro, which is a great platform just for, I guess, mid-market brands like us.

Roz: The feedback that we’re constantly getting from the YotPro guys is that we have one of the best engagement rates out of all of their programs in Australia.

Roz: And I think one of the reasons behind that is because it’s so embedded into every touch point as well.

Roz: And every leader across the business knows the program, knows how it works.

Roz: And when we’re looking at a new AI agent with the digital team, the head of digital is saying, you know, how can we make sure that this includes our program, Home Lovers Club within, you know, that new service to our customers?

Carly: You are ticking so many boxes from a loyalty professional’s perspective, right?

Carly: Simple, easy to use and engage with from the member’s point of view.

Carly: Generous, but I’m assuming you’ve done new metrics and it’s not too generous.

Carly: And it is generous to the member, but still profitable.

Carly: But then also the overlay and embedded throughout the whole business and making sure everybody’s on board, everybody’s engaged business-wise, stakeholder-wise.

Carly: That’s so important.

Roz: Yeah, absolutely.

Roz: I think being able to provide so many different departments with our loyalty data, who are our best customers, profit-wise.

Paula: Very good, very good, important.

Roz: And like, what are they buying?

Roz: How are we finding those customers as well?

Roz: It’s really been, I think, a game changer and really helped us at Canningvale, at that step change for growth as well.

Roz: I think as well, something that I’m really passionate about is just in general inside of business sharing as much as possible.

Roz: And so I think for myself as head of marketing and then Roo, who is our head of digital, we work really well together, just in general, and then also with prioritization of conversion rate optimization.

Roz: So we’re looking at the to-do list, how can we grow this business?

Roz: And I can give Roo examples of, well, if we get more people to log in to our website who are members, then I can pretty easily help you figure out what the uplift in revenue will be.

Roz: Because I already know how many people are logging in at the moment, how many people have enough points to redeem a reward.

Roz: And then for everyone who has minimum 1000 points, which is the minimum you need for a redemption, how many of those people are redeeming their points every day.

Roz: So we already have that benchmark.

Roz: So then when you go higher up the funnel with Crow, if we can increase that by 10 percent, that’s serious money.

Carly: Yeah.

Carly: And having known you for a while, Roz, I know your passion behind knowing your numbers, understanding the metrics, and as you’ve just even described, you know if one parameter changes or we put a bit more pressure here or funding behind it here, what that outcome will be.

Carly: You have mentioned before how much you think loyalty and general management are hand in hand.

Roz: Yeah, definitely.

Roz: I think it’s always exciting to see some loyalty leaders in GMF marketing and even in Maya’s case, CEO roles, very exciting.

Roz: I think for me, especially when you’ve worked on a paid loyalty program and something that’s quite complex, you really do feel like you’re managing a business within a business.

Roz: So when you’re working with loyalty, there’s martech partners, internal stakeholders, you’re working with trade leaders, laser-focused on margin, operations, customer service, digital finance, everything.

Roz: And I think as well, talking to other people in loyalty, I think loyalty marketers have this really great curiosity that drives them, and we’re really data-focused, right?

Roz: So I think when someone says, these are our best customers, we think, oh, how do we know?

Roz: How do we measure that?

Carly: Everyone questions it, is this correct?

Roz: What does that mean?

Roz: Exactly.

Carly: Where’s the value in this?

Roz: Yeah, for sure.

Roz: So having those skills managing a program, I think it’s a very natural step to then move into, like a head of marketing role or a GM of marketing role, or even CEO.

Carly: Yes.

Carly: I think at this stage, just about anyone listening or watching is going to love the fact that you’ve called out, not only is loyalty like running a business, it’s really hard because both of those things are true.

Carly: However, we love it.

Carly: It is fabulous and it’s such a great industry to be involved in.

Carly: There’s no question about that.

Carly: We’ve chatted a lot around low economics, metrics, getting your numbers right.

Carly: This is super essential in any loyalty program.

Carly: There’s no question about that.

Carly: However, either in your current program or previous, any examples where you think, hey, the emotional loyalty has come out strong or has been really essential in the success?

Roz: Yeah, definitely.

Roz: I think when you’re really getting into the detail of, say, a customer’s journey with your brand, and you look at all of those moments of truth, and when you’ve got the data on when people are dropping off and lapsing with their normal purchase behavior, I think it helps you paint a really good picture of, well, what are we going to do about it?

Roz: What’s the opportunity there?

Roz: And so for us at Best Friends, we were really great at acquiring new customers who had a puppy.

Roz: And then they go through puppy school, they buy their set up and then basically, as soon as they hit about 12 months old, a really large chunk of them would just start buying their food at the supermarket.

Roz: And so the opportunity for us was, well, how do we break that cycle?

Roz: How do we bring them back into store?

Roz: And what we found is promotional offers only do so much.

Roz: What really worked was re-establishing that emotional connection between the owner, the pet and the store.

Roz: And so what we did was we created puppy preschool reunions for all of our graduates.

Roz: So it was adorable.

Roz: And so what was really funny was putting together these reunions where we made almost no money on the night because everyone was too busy having fun.

Roz: You think about like a 16-week-old Great Dane puppy who’s been measured and weighed at the vet and then comes back for the reunion.

Roz: And like you can imagine the weight difference.

Roz: Like the in-store theatre was so great.

Roz: And so people come, they have a great time.

Roz: You know, most of them would buy like a little treat or something and then we get that NPS survey back from those customers who shopped.

Roz: That NPS was up to about 92 for those events.

Roz: And when we looked at the cohorts of people who hadn’t shopped for, you know, three, six, 12 months.

Roz: Once we get them to a reunion and we remind them why they loved us and why we’re different and why we’re special, the amount of people who would start shopping again was really significant.

Roz: So looking at the numbers on the date, total flop, made hardly any money.

Roz: But looking at, I guess, re-engaging those customers, huge success.

Carly: Well, it’s just been said many, many times.

Carly: This is not like an original statement for me, but loyalty is a long-term play.

Carly: Absolutely.

Carly: And you’ve really proven that there while tying in the emotional connection at the same time.

Carly: Nicely done.

Roz: Thank you.

Roz: Thank you.

Carly: So thanks, Roz.

Carly: It’s been so great to chat with you, especially across the few programs that you’ve run, including The Current.

Carly: So big congratulations to you and the team again for the recent award.

Carly: And loved having you on here today and having a great chat with you.

Roz: Thank you so much, Carly.

Roz: This has been really fun.

Roz: I’ve loved it.

Carly: Excellent.

Paula: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

Paula: If you’d like us to send you the latest shows each week, simply sign up for the Let’s Talk Loyalty newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com.

Paula: And we’ll send our best episodes straight to your inbox.

Paula: And don’t forget that you can follow Let’s Talk Loyalty on any of your favorite podcast platforms.

Paula: And of course, we’d love for you to share your feedback and reviews.