Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.
Paula: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
Paula: You So, welcome to episode 19 of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: Delighted to be here with you today on January 23rd.
Paula: We’re past the, apparently, the toughest day of the year, which is the third Monday in January.
Paula: So, I’m certainly very excited about the year ahead, and lots of fun and games going on in my world of loyalty.
Paula: And today, what I’m doing is chatting to somebody I’ve done a little bit of work with now over the last two years.
Paula: So, Nick Chambers is Director at Mobile Loyalty Technologies Ltd.
Paula: He is based in the UK, but does work across Europe and, in fact, globally.
Paula: And Nick reached out to me a couple of years ago with a very exciting idea with regards to me joining an organization that he was relaunching, which goes by the name of the Customer Strategy Network.
Paula: Now, I have to say, at the time, I wasn’t familiar with the network, and what I wanted to do was bring Nick onto the show today to talk exactly about why he relaunched it, exactly what is the entire vision around the network.
Paula: And I suppose the reason I found it so exciting and I was so delighted to be invited on board was because I know what it was like to be working independently as a loyalty consultant on a loyalty project where I didn’t have all the answers.
Paula: And what I found is networks like this particular one we’re going to talk about today has an incredible amount of expertise available on both a flexible and a freelance basis.
Paula: So it’s a really exciting idea.
Paula: And if you do ever need some extra help on projects, this is the kind of thing that you might want to look into.
Paula: So before we get into too much detail, I want to first of all welcome Nick Chambers to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Nick: Hi, Paula, I’d like to thank you for welcoming me on your podcast.
Nick: Great.
Nick: As you know, this is the first time that I had done a podcast.
Nick: So treat me gently.
Paula: Very much.
Nick: But I’m very much looking forward to answering your questions today.
Paula: Great, Nick.
Paula: And I love the term that you used before the call.
Paula: You are a podcast virgin, as you said.
Paula: And as I mentioned, in fact, everyone I’ve had on the show is exactly the same.
Paula: So I really appreciate you taking the kind of time today.
Paula: I know it’s 7 a.m.
Paula: in the UK when we’re recording.
Paula: But I do think there’s an awful lot of value that we can have in this conversation that will be super interesting to the audience.
Paula: So before we get into the organization itself and the stuff we do together, you do have a very impressive background in loyalty as well as payments.
Paula: There’s a couple of brands I picked up from your profile, such as Barclaycard, such as Shell, and even a program called Green Rewards.
Paula: So rather than me try and do justice to your career, Nick, why don’t you just give us a background in terms of how did you get involved in loyalty and tell us about your own consulting and employment career in the loyalty industry?
Nick: Yeah, yes, of course.
Nick: I mean, it’s interesting, Paula.
Nick: I mean, I like to think of myself as an independent loyalty practitioner, really, rather than a consultant.
Nick: You know, given my background and my experience, it’s those experiences that I’ve had in delivering and implementing programs that has given me a different perspective, I suppose, than what you might consider around a consultant.
Nick: You know, I’ve been working with clients across a range of industry sectors for the past 10 years, including retail, hospitality, manufacturing, transportation, and financial services.
Nick: And as an independent practitioner, while clients value my objectivity in finding solutions to their specific customer management needs, it is important for myself to have a specialism.
Nick: You know, as you say, my focus has been around payments and loyalty, and their conversions across the mobile channel.
Nick: And really, to differentiate oneself in what is increasingly a crowded market of consultants and consultancies.
Paula: And I like that differentiation, Nick, actually.
Paula: I hadn’t really picked up on the subtlety before, but you’re right.
Paula: Everyone that we work with, we are practitioners.
Paula: So there’s a lot of operational expertise in what we do.
Paula: So I’ll be looking forward to getting into all of that.
Nick: Yes, and as you mentioned around some of my career highlights, I’ve worked client side with organizations such as Shell on their SMART coalition program, with clients like Barclaycard, with the Home Retail Group, looking at the B2B channel for their products and services.
Nick: But I’ve also worked agency side for people like Carlson Marketing and Nectar.
Nick: And then also in the startup world, I was working out in the US for a social enterprise that was looking to really help brands with their CSR credentials.
Nick: And so really had quite a nice mix in terms of enterprise, clients, startups and agencies.
Nick: And really that, you know, allows me to talk around being a practitioner.
Nick: And that’s really how I look to position myself within the market.
Paula: Brilliant, brilliant.
Paula: So I know our main kind of agenda today then Nick, is to talk about the Customer Strategy Network.
Paula: So tell us about, you know, when was it relaunched and why was it relaunched?
Paula: And exactly what is the Customer Strategy Network designed to do?
Nick: Okay, I mean, the Customer Strategy Network has really been in existence for a number of years.
Nick: It was launched by two industry luminaries, Bill Hanifin and Mike Atkin.
Nick: I think you might be aware that Bill still runs the Wise Marketeer publication.
Nick: And really, it was originally set up as an organization for independent consultants to share global best practice.
Nick: You know, looking at trends and ideas around loyalty marketing services and how they could be, you know, what could be taken from different areas of the world and applied in territory.
Nick: Now, I took on responsibility for the running of CSN about a year ago now.
Nick: And it was really my intention to change the CSN model, you know, to make it far more commercial in its approach to working with both brands and technology vendors.
Nick: You know, I saw all that latent talent within the network, rather than just sharing the experience, is really to be brought to bear on helping clients solve their industry challenges.
Paula: Absolutely.
Paula: And I know when you contacted me about it, Nick, what I had also got as a shared experience was knowing that there was a real kind of hunger for expertise, and that’s across loyalty programs at every level.
Paula: So whether they’re, you know, a smaller scale program or all the way up to enterprise programs, you know, in any sector, be it banking, be it airlines, there’s always this appetite for an independent perspective, and I think for new ideas.
Paula: So I do, that’s what appealed to me actually was this whole idea around global best practice and what can you do when you don’t know what to do?
Paula: You know, I think we’ve all been in a situation where you’re running a loyalty program maybe for two, three, five years, and you suddenly go, do you know what, first of all, I don’t know if it’s working as well as it should, or secondly, I feel it needs to be relaunched or refreshed.
Paula: And where do you start when you’ve been running something and you do want to get an insight from maybe a different part of the world?
Nick: No, exactly, Paula.
Nick: I mean, what’s important is that all the members are going back to this point about being practitioners.
Nick: We’ve all been in that situation as that loyalty manager, as that program manager, looking at the key performance indicators of our existing program and wondering how we can change the mechanics within our programs to hit our commercial targets.
Nick: And really, what I’ve seen is some of the consultancies don’t have that level of experience within their staffing.
Nick: Basically, as you know, Paula, we’ve all had the start scars from failures, as well as the accolades from successes.
Nick: And that is really what we bring to bear on a client problem.
Nick: I find that this really affords us greater insights into those issues faced by our clients.
Nick: And really, and I think this is the key point, it gives us an ability to speak truth to power from a position of real world experience.
Nick: We’ve seen the challenges, we’ve seen some of the solutions, or we can access them through our network.
Nick: And I really think we can add value, or we do add value to solving our client problems.
Paula: Absolutely.
Paula: And I’ll get you to talk through a bit of the geographical expertise in a second, Nick.
Paula: But yeah, I like that point you made, and it is certainly something I’ve come across where, particularly, I suppose, again, big enterprise clients looking maybe for the first time, particularly at building a new loyalty program, it can be very reassuring to go to a big consulting firm that has a global reputation for management consulting expertise.
Paula: But very often, a year later or two years later, they will find that there is a lack of practical expertise in running the programs, because these consultancies very much are brought in to structure things, to put a framework around them, maybe to get board level approval.
Paula: But then when it comes to, well, actually, how do we do that?
Paula: They might not have the level of ongoing experience running as a practitioner.
Paula: So I think that’s a key point and one that comes up continually.
Paula: So tell us a bit about then the individual.
Paula: I think there’s 14 of us in total, Nick, am I right?
Nick: Yes, yes, that’s right.
Nick: There are 14.
Nick: Hopefully, there’s going to be 15 by the end of this week, as we bring on Kunal, who’s based over in India.
Nick: I mean, as you say, we are a true global organization, as well as yourself in Dubai.
Nick: We have representation in Central and Eastern Europe.
Nick: We have Ilana in the Russian Federation and Nicole, who works out of Munich in Germany.
Nick: We have a number of representatives in North America.
Nick: We have Mike Capizzi, who some people might know as also the Dean of the Loyalty Academy.
Nick: So again, we have an access to a preeminent loyalty training organization, which he runs.
Nick: We have good representation in Southeast Asia.
Nick: We have Sean in Singapore.
Nick: And we have South Africa with Dion and Australasia with Simon, who’s ex-Emir based out of Auckland and New Zealand.
Nick: And we have Adam, who works out of Melbourne in Australia.
Nick: So we do cover anything and everything.
Nick: With India, we do cover all the territories.
Nick: And what is interesting is when we coalesce and work together on projects, it’s some of the same issues that are faced in terms of customer management within these different geographical regions.
Nick: They’re slightly nuanced in terms of looking at the financial services sector and how that’s impacting the Southeast Asian markets, against what’s happening in Europe.
Nick: But still, there’s a common thread in terms of the glue that fits the customer piece against the changing technology piece.
Nick: And I think that’s really the space that the CSN plays in.
Paula: Absolutely.
Paula: And definitely, I did count actually there on our website, there’s actually 10 countries in total that people are based in.
Paula: So definitely, there’s market perspectives globally, which is super exciting.
Paula: And as you know, the podcast, Nick, particularly, I’m using the tagline Global Voices of Loyalty.
Paula: And you are the third member of our organization that’s come on as a guest on the show.
Paula: As you know, Mike Atkin was on as the loyalty guru, and Dion there a couple of weeks ago as well.
Paula: So very much it’s my goal that everyone within this organization can have an extraordinary opportunity to talk about their markets and their perspectives, because I definitely believe it’s helping educate all of us in terms of what’s happening around the world in loyalty.
Nick: Just on that point, Paula, what’s interesting is when you talk to Dion, he talks also about his own business practice.
Nick: I mean, I think that’s a key point about CSN is we do coalesce as independent practitioners around this global brand, but we’re also specialists within our in-market operations.
Nick: We all have our own businesses, as you introduced me.
Nick: I’m the Director of Mobile Loyalty Technologies.
Nick: Dion has his business.
Nick: Mike Atkin has his business.
Nick: And really, we work as individual, independent consultants, and then we come together at a more enterprise level in terms of solving client problems.
Nick: I mean, I’m working with Mike Atkin on a program at the moment in Portugal, but we both also work independently ourselves.
Nick: And I think that’s a nice balance to have.
Paula: Amazing.
Paula: And I know, I suppose, what we’ve realized is across all of that variety, there’s probably three main areas that we have found have been common issues or requirements around the world.
Paula: And I’d love to just talk through those three particularly, because I know for people listening, they possibly have one or more of these that they might be aware that there are ideas and expertise around.
Paula: So the three I thought might be useful to talk through today is, first of all, platform advice around if somebody does need a new loyalty technology, where do they start to go for advice on getting the right platform, or even a short list of the right platforms.
Paula: Secondly, with GDPR from a legislation perspective in Europe, there’s obviously some ideas and some solutions that we’ve got within privacy.
Paula: And then I think the third area that’s coming up is a lot of people around the world do go through, I suppose, a life cycle with their loyalty program, where they want to maybe sit down at one stage and go, well, is my loyalty program effective?
Paula: So can you just maybe talk us through those three particular areas and maybe how we would approach those type of issues?
Nick: Yes, although, I mean, each one is, you probably could have a podcast on each one individually.
Nick: So let me touch upon them at a very high level, in terms of my experience and the experience of the Customer Strategy Network.
Nick: So if we talk around the platform advice, I mean, I really think there’s a growing recognition amongst our clients of the benefits of moving to platform solutions, rather than fully customized builds.
Nick: You know, from data lakes to CDPs to engagement layers, there’s this understanding that organizations and vendors have built great platforms specifically tailored to organizations of different sizes.
Nick: However, I think the challenge is the levels of customization, specific bespoke elements for individual clients.
Nick: But also how the end-to-end system architecture for these platforms can be fitted together and focused, highly focused on the commercial challenges.
Nick: I mean, these are always the considerations that we find.
Nick: So as well as finding the right platform for the right needs, it’s also finding that level of customization that are specific to allow differentiation in terms of the value proposition, but also to fit within the operating model and the budget of individual clients.
Paula: Yeah, and I think that’s a really useful point, Nick, because I’ve certainly seen, you know, with my 10 years experience, and I know you’ve even more, technology options in general seem to becoming more affordable, not that they’re ever, you know, super low end, but they become more accessible with the more startups, the more agile technology platforms around the world that are merging.
Paula: So it mightn’t be the case if you’re a big bank, for example, and you need an enterprise solution, but it’s definitely more competitive, and there are more points of differentiation.
Paula: Is that what you’re saying?
Nick: Yes, I mean, to give you a specific example, I mean, let me use Salesforce as an example.
Nick: I mean, everybody knows Salesforce or heard of Salesforce.
Nick: I mean, Salesforce is a fantastic customer data platform.
Nick: I think one of the challenges around Salesforce is because it’s so customizable, the client resource isn’t there, or the level of understanding isn’t there within the client side in terms of how to leverage that customization.
Nick: I mean, the platform provides it, but it’s the understanding at the client level in terms of what that platform can do, is the challenge, is the gap.
Nick: Now, Salesforce are looking to plug that with resources that help educate clients in terms of the use of the platform and how it can be bespoke to individual needs.
Nick: But I still think there’s a missing element, and it’s a good user case for all other platforms around exactly how they’re configured to suit those specific requirements of a client, especially to deliver a customer engagement, customer management program.
Paula: Yeah, and you’re actually, it’s a genius example, Nick, because I’ve always been a fan of Salesforce.
Paula: And again, from my kind of corporate background, I’ve seen it totally customized and plugged into our own kind of operational platforms in business.
Paula: But even now, as an independent consultant, I will still and still do use Salesforce.
Paula: And I think I pay like $10 a month or something for it.
Paula: So it’s super affordable.
Paula: I don’t need any customization for it for my needs, but it absolutely deals with all levels of access that certainly would have been available 20 years ago.
Nick: Exactly, Paula.
Nick: But I do think, and this is where the CSN comes in, is making sure that that platform and the configuration of that platform is specific to the customer management needs and organizational and operating model needs of the business.
Nick: That’s no small task to take a platform and make it sing for a client, especially delivering against commercial targets.
Paula: Exactly.
Nick: And I think that’s the key point around platforms, is they’re great, but they need to be leveraged for the best use of a client and their needs.
Paula: And I know, again, the way I’ve experienced inquiries from companies looking to either identify a platform for the first time or replace one.
Paula: So very often, based on their relationship with me, they might reach out and ask for an informal recommendation.
Paula: But certainly within the CSN, what we do have is a formal, I suppose, professional benchmarking solution of over 65 platforms.
Paula: So I know there is a very detailed and customized report available, which is super affordable if somebody does want to go, well, tell me all of the platforms available around the world that may be able to meet my brief.
Paula: So that’s definitely something I know that we’ve had a lot of interest in.
Paula: And I think a lot of people listening might be interested, if not now, maybe in a couple of years’ time.
Nick: No, definitely.
Nick: And as you say, Paula, it’s that fit between what we need as a client and the platforms that are out there.
Nick: I mean, we’re working on a project at the moment with an organization that are looking for a couponing platform.
Nick: Now, there are some fantastic couponing platforms available.
Nick: But which one fits intimately with the client needs, given their legacy systems, given their operating model, given their commercial targets, given their budgetary constraints, is a consideration in itself.
Nick: And I think that’s what this benchmarking service gives comfort to clients, knowing that the platform is fit against their multitude of variables in terms of what they’re looking for.
Paula: And I know what you’ve done in that particular example, Nick, has been fantastic.
Paula: So again, nobody wants to issue an RFP to 65 companies, because that would be a life’s work probably.
Paula: But what you’ve been able to do is say, OK, we understand the client needs.
Paula: We know those 65 platforms.
Paula: We can give you a short list of the top three or four, because we’ve done the benchmarking.
Paula: And then you can go to RFP or whatever process you want, but to shortlist from the most suitable platforms based on a very experienced set of understanding of what’s available out in the industry.
Nick: And that’s exactly it, Paula.
Nick: That CSN service is essentially to make that process more efficient.
Paula: Brilliant.
Paula: Brilliant.
Paula: Okay, so that’s the platform piece, Nick.
Paula: The second thing I know that lots of brands have been increasingly focused on, and they have to from a legal perspective, is the whole point around privacy.
Paula: So what kind of way would CSN respond if a brand was concerned about managing their data in an optimal fashion?
Nick: Well, I mean, we all understand from a global perspective, that individual privacy is a growing area of governmental regulation.
Nick: Again, we’re seeing that loyalty managers are requiring practical advice of what can be implemented in terms of their permission-based communication strategy with their customers and with their members in a timely and custom-effective manner.
Nick: And something, a contract strategy or a data-gathering strategy that fits with this ever-changing approach to privacy regulation.
Nick: So what we look for within the CSN is to have members that are specialists within this area, within this area of privacy.
Nick: And we have a very highly regarded industry champion, Richard Dutton, that we call upon to help support the advice around e-privacy, around GDPR in Europe, around essentially how loyalty programs should look to gather customer data, process customer data, and use that to engage with their members in a loyalty program for commercial value.
Paula: Absolutely.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: And I think, as you said, Nick, we all have a very good understanding of, and I suppose very well intentioned around managing customer data, but it’s the subtlety that worries me when I’m going out and asking for permission to market to people.
Paula: And I have found internally with clients, there’s probably very good legal support available at a general level, but because it’s so sensitive around loyalty permissions that you probably do need an expert when it comes to signing off the terms and conditions and sense checking everything that you’ve put in place.
Paula: So really good to hear that Richard’s available to kind of input on those type of projects.
Nick: But also, Paula, I think it’s going back to being a practitioner.
Nick: It’s not a legal exercise in itself.
Nick: I mean, lots of these questions that our clients are asking, there are some shades of gray.
Nick: So if I give a use case, is I’m working with a client that wants to incentivize the opt-in for marketing information from their customers.
Nick: They run a points program and they want to use points as an incentive for members to opt into their program.
Nick: And I have a conversation with Richard after we speak on this podcast to understand a legal view on that.
Nick: And where Richard is good is he can give a view around his experience of these programs, of what is capable of doing and what probably isn’t.
Nick: So it’s not a hard and fast legal ruling, it’s an interpretation using experiences from programs across the world.
Nick: And I think really that’s going back to that practitioner point, is that’s really where we try and add value.
Paula: For sure.
Paula: And certainly very reassuring, because again, with the best will in the world, everybody is trying to get the best possible quality and quantity of member data.
Paula: But there’s a line that you just can’t cross, and you do need that level of expertise sometimes just to go, you know, how far can we go with this?
Paula: So yeah, delighted to hear that Richard is supporting you on that one.
Nick: Yes, yes.
Nick: So program effectiveness.
Nick: Now this probably is the fun part.
Nick: The one that everybody is interested in terms of, you know, how their programs are.
Nick: You know, it basically comes down to the commercial performance against quarterly sales targets.
Nick: You know, I’m currently working with a European fashion outlet, a mall operator, you know, where their loyalty program is the major contributor to their growth targets.
Nick: There’s so much focus within the business on that program and its effectiveness.
Nick: So in their case, you know, any chance of success for the program is based essentially around how they optimize their legacy systems.
Nick: So how their loyalty program interfaces with, you know, their legacy point of sale technology, you know, with their customer data platform that they have.
Nick: So it’s very rare that the program, the loyalty program, encompasses all elements of their technical stack.
Nick: There’s always touch points in terms of legacy systems.
Nick: And I think this is one of the key points that’s overlooked around programs.
Nick: It’s how they can be made to be efficient, giving an existing marketing tech stack.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: And that’s one side of it, Nick.
Paula: In my experience, I suppose the other piece that companies are really excited to kind of get insights on is, you know, what kind of return on investment should we be getting in our sector, in our market, in our phase of the life cycle of our loyalty program?
Paula: Is it delivering as well as it can?
Paula: And if it’s not, why not?
Paula: And what can be done to optimize it?
Nick: I agree.
Nick: Although maybe I would have some pushback, actually, Paula, because a lot of these programs depend on the organizational structure and the operating model of the individual customer company itself.
Nick: It’s very difficult to evaluate apples with apples.
Nick: We touched upon earlier in the podcast around the vendor benchmarking service that the CSN provides.
Nick: It’s relatively easy to look at different platforms, to look at Adobe against Salesforce, against ASAP.
Nick: It’s more difficult in terms of looking at an airline program and comparing it with a different airline.
Nick: Given the operating model that that program is coming from within the organization, looking at this mall operator is how centralized they run their program against other mall operators that have a decentralized approach.
Nick: And having cost and resource within the program from an internal perspective, how that translates into a return on investment externally.
Nick: So I suppose, again, where CSN comes at this is we try and get under the hood and look from a technical perspective, from an operating perspective, and from a customer value perspective before we can evaluate a program against a competitor.
Paula: And do you find, Nick, in that example specifically that you’re working on, do you find that it’s a lack of awareness internally or simply just a lack of, I suppose, specialized expertise?
Paula: Is it the independence or the external perspective?
Paula: Where’s the requirement coming from in terms of what you’re doing for them?
Nick: Where I see with this particular client, it all relates to a propensity to risk.
Nick: They understand intimately, what is the art of the possible?
Nick: What their constraint is, is the amount of disruption that they are prepared to put into their own business to get to that optimum level.
Nick: If we came at everything with a blank sheet of paper, we would do things in so many different ways.
Nick: But we have to recognize the constraints of where we are and the disruption to where that we believe we need to get to.
Nick: And I think that’s where I see with clients is there’s not that they don’t have an understanding of what the vision is.
Nick: It’s their risk associated with getting to that vision.
Nick: Everybody wants that incremental sale.
Nick: Everybody wants to lose a customer, a customer with a high lifetime value on the way to getting to where they need to be.
Paula: Well, it sounds super exciting that you’re able to go in and help them optimize that program for them.
Nick: Yeah, yes.
Nick: And I think that program effectiveness is a very, there’s a lot of levers that come in to play around program effectiveness.
Nick: And as you said, Paula, the top line is what sales are this driving in my business?
Nick: What are the trends within my industry sector?
Nick: How am I indexing against my competitors?
Nick: But I think to get to that point, there’s quite a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of looking at the systems architecture, looking at the operating model, and looking at the value proposition, and then looking at the amount of disruption that would potentially be put onto the business in terms of changing to get to where the commercial drivers are requiring the program to be at.
Paula: Yeah, and you’re right, Nick.
Paula: I mean, disruption just is, you know, it’s just the new normal.
Paula: So I think for me, certainly, I want to be aware of what is disrupting the industry.
Paula: So at least I have half a chance of dealing with it.
Paula: So it’s great to have that level of expertise to say this is what’s coming at the industry in terms of the disruptors and the new ways of working.
Nick: Yes, and there’s some fantastic innovation coming down the track around payments and around tokenization and around card linking.
Nick: I think the challenge is how does that fit into a legacy operating model, a legacy tech stack, and a legacy value proposition?
Nick: The key is to navigate how that new ideas and new innovation can fit within an old style of working.
Nick: And again, that’s the key to what the CSN is trying to do for clients to help them navigate that change process.
Paula: Yeah, it’s certainly very complex, my goodness.
Paula: And just the last couple then, Nick, of questions that I wanted to talk to you.
Paula: Overall, just from your perspective as a practitioner, what kind of trends are you seeing either in loyalty or in the payments industry?
Nick: Well, Paula, I suppose I would say this.
Nick: The key trend I see is this convergence between payment process and the customer loyalty aspects, where the loyalty programs of the future will be a frictionless element within a payment process.
Nick: In whatever format that payment process takes place, whether it’s biometrics, whether it’s wearables, whether it’s a cryptocurrency, or whether it’s a super app like WeChat and Alipay, I see the loyalty element baked in to that process of payment.
Nick: And really, that’s where I see the future trends for loyalty.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: And again, you’re the expert, Nick, and we won’t be able to get into the full detail of it now, but for me, the most exciting part, just coming purely from either with my consumer hat on or just as a marketing expert, I guess, is where the payment mechanism can become the loyalty identifier.
Paula: And to your point about removing friction, as you know, I do a huge amount of work with inconvenience retail.
Paula: And if you can start to eliminate the need, for example, for a plastic card to swipe at the till and just make the payment mechanism automatically recognize who that customer is and track whatever recognition rewards you want to put alongside it.
Paula: I find that super compelling and super exciting.
Paula: So definitely all the clever stuff around, as you said, biometrics and advanced technologies, but specifically something that sounds simpler, which is just why can’t we just have payment linked loyalty?
Paula: So I think you’ve got plenty of work ahead of you between all of those opportunities.
Nick: No, but Paula, payment linked loyalty exists.
Nick: I can already go into a shopping mall and link my payment card within an app and then spend in all the concessions and earn value back for those transactions in a purely frictionless manner.
Nick: I think the challenge is the disruption that that new way of working would cause to a legacy loyalty program.
Nick: Using your example of the convenience sector to migrate customers into a new way of considering loyalty and how they obtain loyalty is perhaps the key point, not the technology that would underlie in it, because that exists.
Nick: It’s the migration of customer perception is key as I see it.
Paula: And I completely agree, Nick.
Paula: And certainly some of the feedback that I’ve heard is that once customers are aware of it, they absolutely love it.
Paula: So there is quite a steep learning curve in terms of just the challenge to communicate effectively, again, particularly in that industry that we know nobody wants to invest any more time, even milliseconds at the till.
Paula: But once they’ve done the connection, once the added benefits, for example, of not having paper receipts every time I go into a store and to have all of those available digitally really does resonate with customers.
Paula: But yes, getting the technology along that journey into an already busy environment is definitely a challenge and one that certainly I can hear you’re doing a huge amount of work with.
Nick: Yes, it’s exciting times, very exciting times for the loyalty industry.
Nick: Given the amount of disruption, given the amount of innovation, it’s a great time to be a loyalty marketeer.
Paula: It sure is.
Paula: So listen, just to wrap up then, Nick, again, we’ve talked a lot about CSN.
Paula: We’re both very passionate members of that.
Paula: And again, it’s a very different style of show, specifically because I remember having the pain point of not having access to great brain power in a very niche industry.
Paula: So just, I suppose my final question really is, what does success look like for the Customer Strategy Network?
Nick: Well, for me, success for the Customer Strategy Network is to provide all the members, like yourself, Paula, with a highly compelling and sustainable value proposition for why you would want to be part of it.
Nick: I understand that independent practitioners, they have opportunities to work and coalesce in myriads of ways.
Nick: And the CSN really needs to drive value for them.
Nick: It’s to say to them, by being part of this organization, this umbrella brand, you’re going to see real value by working with your peers or by working with clients and vendors that want to utilize your experience and your skill sets.
Nick: So for me, and maybe because I’m managing the Customer Strategy Network, success is your continued support of it.
Nick: That’s how I define success.
Paula: Well, I mean, it’s certainly a shared objective, Nick.
Paula: I know we very much enjoy working together, and I think that is true.
Paula: I know it’s true, in fact, for all 14 members.
Paula: And even yesterday, for me, it’s super reassuring just to kind of go, here’s a question that I have that I don’t know how to answer for a client, and to be able to just tap into that level of expertise and instantly get a very, very well-educated and expert view on a very specific question is an extraordinary opportunity.
Paula: And I’ve said many times before, I have an insatiable appetite for learning, and I think that’s something that we all share.
Paula: So yeah, the final piece, I guess, is just if there are, you know, all of these loyalty program managers listening to this conversation between us today, Nick, where’s the best place for them to have a chat or to look at all of the various people available if they have particular questions about their own loyalty program that they want to explore with someone?
Nick: Well, I mean, I’d hopefully that they come to you, Paula, and talk to you directly, but they can contact myself or they can go to the customerstrategynetwork.com website or the profile of all the members of there and ways of connecting via LinkedIn or email or through whichever channel.
Nick: So it’s all on the website, customerstrategynetwork.com.
Paula: Brilliant, Woodlick.
Paula: I’m so happy to be able to talk to you today.
Paula: As I said, I love being a part of this network and I know there’s a huge amount of people listening who’d be super excited to know that there is a place that they can bring their most complex challenges.
Paula: So just want to say from my perspective, I’ve really enjoyed our conversation today and thanks a million for talking to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Nick: Thanks Paula, thanks for having me.
Paula: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com, and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday.
Paula: Or just head to your favorite podcast platform.
Paula: Find Let’s Talk Loyalty and subscribe.
Paula: Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews, and thanks again for supporting the show.
Paula: Thank you.
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