Zeta Global: Turning Loyalty Data into a Growth Engine (#781)

PAULA: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.

PAULA: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

PAULA: Today’s episode is hosted by Bridget Blaise-Shamai, former president of the AA Advantage Program, the award-winning Travel Awards Program of American Airlines.

PAULA: Bridget is a global C-suite executive and is currently advising VC-backed startups in loyalty, travel and payments.

PAULA: Enjoy.

BRIDGET: Welcome everyone to this edition of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

BRIDGET: I am delighted to be hosting Georgia Gkolfinopoulou and Chad White with Zeta Global.

BRIDGET: With offices around the world, Zeta Global is a U.S.-based marketing technology company partnering with its clients to create, maintain, and monetize customer relationships.

BRIDGET: In November 2025, Zeta Global acquired Marigold’s Enterprise Software Business, including Marigold Loyalty.

BRIDGET: The acquisition combines Marigold’s enterprise loyalty capabilities with Zeta’s AI and data-driven platform.

BRIDGET: Today, we’re diving into a new study conducted by Forrester Consulting on behalf of Zeta Global, titled The Underutilized Superpower Hidden in Loyalty Data.

BRIDGET: The study underscores that brands are sitting on lots of zero and first-party customer data, but are still not realizing the full value of these assets.

BRIDGET: Chad and Georgia will definitely walk you through the reasons behind the gaps and recommend solutions on how to turn these gaps into monetizable opportunities.

BRIDGET: Our goal today is to provide you with how to turn your underutilized loyalty data into a high-performing superpower, delivering loftier value through higher customer engagement, purchase frequency, retention, and customer lifetime value.

BRIDGET: Enjoy, and let’s get started.

BRIDGET: Welcome, Georgia, and Chad to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty to TV.

BRIDGET: I’m so delighted to have you with us as our guest today.

CHAD: Thanks.

CHAD: Great to be here.

GEORGIA: Thanks, Bridget.

GEORGIA: We’re very happy to be here.

BRIDGET: Let’s get at it.

BRIDGET: One of the things we would like to do as a part of our podcast with our guests is let our listeners know a little more about them.

BRIDGET: We have a few questions that we’d like to share with you out the gate here.

BRIDGET: The first one is, tell our listener about a non-fiction book that has really influenced your thinking around customer loyalty or leadership, or something even broader in the terms of business, that has really influenced where you have achieved in your career.

GEORGIA: When I was in university, it was suggested to me that I had to absolutely read Start With Why by Simon Sinek.

GEORGIA: I think this is a book that follows me to this day.

GEORGIA: It has been super impactful for me because it really reminds me that the stronger leaders and subsequently strong organizations are built on purpose, and purpose is something that I’m always after and is always on my mind as I grow in my career, not only performance.

GEORGIA: So I think for anyone who hasn’t read this book, it’s a great reminder that it’s super important to know what you stand for and being able to communicate that clearly.

GEORGIA: By doing that, you can bring people with you on the same journey on a growth journey, which I always think is quite fascinating.

GEORGIA: It has really influenced how I think about leadership, alignment, and of course, the way I shape my long-term thinking.

BRIDGET: I applaud you and share with you how important that book is, and a lot of what Simon does, he has spent a lot of times at American Airlines working with the company, with executives, and really agree with you on the importance of knowing your personal why and your corporate why.

BRIDGET: So thank you for sharing that.

BRIDGET: Chad, what do you have?

CHAD: Yeah.

CHAD: So I had a lot of options behind me, behind the blur of my background.

CHAD: But top of mind for me is Atul Gawande’s book, The Checklist Manifesto, it just so happens.

CHAD: So my wife is a physician at Boston Medical Center and they just had commencement for the next graduation of doctors.

CHAD: She was on stage right behind Atul Gawande, who was delivering one of the commencement addresses.

CHAD: It was really amazing.

CHAD: The book is essentially all about how things are complicated, even for really smart people.

CHAD: And so doctors have checklists, pilots have checklists, lots of really competent people have checklists because it is a way of making sure that you’re doing all the things.

CHAD: It’s not a slight against your intelligence or anything else.

CHAD: And I really love the book.

CHAD: It inspired my own book to a certain degree, Email Marketing Rules.

CHAD: But I think in this age when everything is getting more and more complicated, having a good checklist to make sure you’re doing the essential things and not missing something because you’re in a hurry or distracted or whatever it is, is really vital.

BRIDGET: Thank you for that.

BRIDGET: I think that’s a really important point to hone in on, that there is a lot of value in the checklist, the process, the procedure.

BRIDGET: That even in a world where you’re encouraged to be flexible and agile and open to a lot of things, there is a lot to be said about structure and the importance of a checklist within structure.

BRIDGET: So thank you.

BRIDGET: And what a terrific story about your wife and commencement.

BRIDGET: That’s just so terrific.

BRIDGET: Thank you for that.

CHAD: She was geeking out big time.

BRIDGET: Yeah, I would too.

BRIDGET: I would too.

BRIDGET: Okay, so building upon this, tell our listeners, please, a bit about your own personal, professional journeys and how you got where you are today.

BRIDGET: You want to start with this, Chad?

CHAD: Sure.

CHAD: So I’m the GVP of CRM Strategy at Zeta Global.

CHAD: I’ve been in the email marketing and digital marketing space now for 20 years.

CHAD: But my previous path was that I was a journalist.

CHAD: I’m a Masters in Journalism from NYU.

CHAD: And I think many people fell into email marketing a little bit.

CHAD: But it’s been a really fantastic journey.

CHAD: I’ve primarily worked on the strategy side at agencies and within large email service providers such as Responses, Exact Target, Oracle, and Salesforce.

CHAD: And it’s really just been fantastic.

CHAD: There’s always a new story.

CHAD: And that’s been largely my role is to understand the new story, how things are changing, and to help communicate that to marketers so that they can do a better job of adapting.

CHAD: And I think in particular, in this age right now, there’s just so much change.

CHAD: People are really paddling pretty hard to stay up to date and current.

BRIDGET: Yeah, you really hold in on something really important is that content.

BRIDGET: And it’s going to be enabled across a lot of channels.

BRIDGET: Email is still very relevant, but really keeping up with relevance through the content is really clutch.

BRIDGET: And I love that that’s a big part of what you’re doing.

BRIDGET: Georgia, tell us about you.

GEORGIA: Yeah, so a funny story, actually.

GEORGIA: My bachelor’s was in journalism as well and media.

GEORGIA: So I think I share this passion with Chad.

GEORGIA: But for the last 10 years, I have been involved.

GEORGIA: I want to say into all things marketing from social media to paid, to email marketing, CRM.

GEORGIA: And over the last four years, I’m focusing mostly on the strategic use of technology to improve customer experience on channel CRM programs.

GEORGIA: And of course, a particular emphasis on loyalty program design and how brands can build more connected, relevant customer relationships and how brands can use technology and, per Chad’s point, actually tell the story to their customers to create this long term engagement, which is a very interesting field.

GEORGIA: I think we’re in a very interesting point in time for a lot of experimentation and a lot of newness and innovation.

GEORGIA: So quite enjoyable.

BRIDGET: Yeah.

BRIDGET: And to think how much more empowered we are with the capabilities that are in market and are only going to get better.

BRIDGET: It is really a thrilling time to be involved with all of that.

BRIDGET: So thank you both for that.

BRIDGET: OK.

BRIDGET: One last traditional question.

BRIDGET: What is, what are your favorite loyalty programs?

CHAD: I was going to say that I know my wife’s favorite program is JetBlue.

CHAD: She loves the JetBlue loyalty program.

CHAD: I’ll be a little bit a little bit non-traditional and say Nintendos.

CHAD: I think they have a very interesting program where they have a variety of awards that you can get.

CHAD: And they’re not always traditional discounts and things like that.

CHAD: In fact, they rarely are, which is, I think, nice.

BRIDGET: You feel good engagement with Nintendo?

CHAD: Yeah.

CHAD: My family is kind of a Nintendo family.

BRIDGET: Okay.

BRIDGET: And Georgia, how about you?

GEORGIA: I think if I could pick just one, because I have many favorites, obviously, and I’d go with ASOS because they have recently, well, not recently, but over the last couple of years, they have been constantly revamping their program.

GEORGIA: And I think they’ve done a magnificent job at following an approach that feels super modern, it’s very practical, and it’s very customer first.

GEORGIA: And you can go through the tiers very seamlessly.

GEORGIA: They’re very realistic and attainable.

GEORGIA: Like you don’t have to spend crazy amount of money to just feel like you’re doing something with the rewards.

GEORGIA: And one thing that I actually really, really enjoy is the fact that you can have opportunities for brand participation, whether that’s surveys around the program and the products or actual products and items that are about to get launched.

GEORGIA: So as you go through the tiers, you have more exclusive access to brand participation opportunities and experiences, but also real life events and higher discounts on your birthday.

GEORGIA: I think it just tells a very nice story around the value exchange, the fact that customers can give input on upcoming drops, and also in return, they get this feeling of exclusivity and they can explore the brand based on storytelling, curiosity, and so on.

GEORGIA: I also think that it’s done in a way that looks very relevant, and it’s done with taste, and it has an editorial feel, which it’s very curated to the audiences of the platform.

GEORGIA: So I have really been following the journey, and it’s a very interesting way there.

GEORGIA: They’re leveraging also different channels.

GEORGIA: So for marketeers out there, definitely have a look at Asus because they have a very good dominant channel approach.

BRIDGET: Well, thank you for that very thoughtful response.

BRIDGET: I mean, two things that strike me as I listen to you.

BRIDGET: One is, I think it’s really important that brands engage with customers beyond always a commercial initiative, right, and how you are engaged with surveys is a great example.

BRIDGET: Second, I can tell how you’re engaged just by how you describe it.

BRIDGET: So well done.

BRIDGET: Thank you very much.

BRIDGET: Our conversation day centers around a newly published study conducted by Forrester Consulting on behalf of Zeta titled, The Underutilized Superpower Hidden in Loyalty Data, where we are provided with a lot of data from over 300 customer loyalty and marketing decision-makers and practitioners representing a broad set of industries, including travel, retail, food and beverage, and financial services.

BRIDGET: So let’s set the table with some of the key data points that came out of this, and I must underscore to our listeners, it’s a very rich set of data in this report.

BRIDGET: It is certainly going to be worth your reading.

BRIDGET: But here’s some high-level ones that I want to share.

BRIDGET: Of course, Georgia and Chad will give us their views on this and the so what of all this.

BRIDGET: The first one is the current world of loyalty programs within marketing strategy.

BRIDGET: And the question is, how important is this in terms of the customer engagement?

BRIDGET: And 88 percent cited loyalty programs as the primary or the secondary driver of customer engagement.

BRIDGET: That’s very interesting to me.

BRIDGET: Well, 11 percent said not so much.

BRIDGET: So Chad, what do you think about that?

BRIDGET: You know, 88 percent cited loyalty programs as the primary or secondary driver of customer engagement.

CHAD: Yeah, honestly, based on some of the other responses, that seems a little bit of a rosy assessment.

CHAD: Maybe this is a little bit aspirational, or they know that it’s supposed to be really important.

CHAD: So it’s great to see that interest, and like they know it’s supposed to be critical.

CHAD: But honestly, some of the other data points don’t really back up that enthusiasm to quite that level.

BRIDGET: Wow.

BRIDGET: Well, thank you for that just very candid reaction to this.

BRIDGET: So the next data point I want to cover off here is, within the loyalty program, first-party and zero-party data, respectively, are collected by about three-quarters of the respondents, and about two-thirds of the respondents for zero-party.

BRIDGET: Reaction to that.

CHAD: I think that’s a huge opportunity.

CHAD: Those numbers should both be 100 percent.

CHAD: So I think that’s where I start to see that gap of enthusiasm versus what they’re actually doing.

CHAD: I was, for me, this is the number in this whole report that is the biggest, haha, each of those numbers should be 100 percent.

CHAD: I mean, absolutely, first-party data should be 100 percent, but also zero-party.

CHAD: You should be asking questions and doing polls and doing quizzes and getting to know each of your loyalty members by asking them questions.

CHAD: So yeah, for me, this is like the number that everybody should really be examining themselves over.

CHAD: Those numbers should be each 100 percent.

BRIDGET: So as I read the report, in my mind, I’m like, well, what about the one minus?

BRIDGET: So a quarter are not collecting first-party, right?

BRIDGET: And a third are not collecting zero-party.

BRIDGET: So to your point, and that’s what struck me is, what about those who are not?

BRIDGET: That’s a pretty decent chunk that are not.

BRIDGET: The extent of loyalty data integration with other customer data sources.

BRIDGET: About a third said fully integrated.

BRIDGET: Forty-five percent partially integrated.

BRIDGET: So what does that get this to about three-quarters again?

BRIDGET: And the balance said minimally are not integrated at all.

GEORGIA: I think, Bridget, this is something that, you know, the more someone gets to work with many clients from across different industries, it is not so rare.

GEORGIA: Like we know especially, you know, big brands, enterprise brands are currently in a position of, you know, they have many different systems.

GEORGIA: Those systems sometimes are fragmented.

GEORGIA: They are silent.

GEORGIA: And of course, you know, for this ideal loyalty customer experience to exist, it means that it’s one team, one operational system, one governance system, right?

GEORGIA: And this does not always exist.

GEORGIA: So by nature, when you have the loyalty program be treated as a separate program to your CRM program or the different customer activations or campaigns that they’re running, you would have as a result the difficulty of handoffs between data and data integrations.

GEORGIA: And of course, you know, sometimes there are other, sort of, reasons as to why it might be difficult.

GEORGIA: You might have, like, costs that might be high or implementation complexity, integration complexity between one platform to another.

GEORGIA: And so I think, you know, this can somewhat respond as to why we see those data points there.

GEORGIA: And I think what we will see in the future, a lot of brands right now start to understand that, you know, if we want to offer this holistic customer experience, we almost owed to have a holistic approach organizationally.

GEORGIA: So I think in the future, we will see a lot more the loyalty team be very deeply integrated within, you know, the marketing CRM teams.

GEORGIA: And then this team, this super team together will also have ownership of top funnel activities and there will be a better understanding of who is who.

GEORGIA: So that, you know, everyone can synchronize the customer experience, which, you know, today evidently is slightly asynchronous to what are we trying to achieve with the loyalty program versus with our CRM program, versus with our overall campaign calendar for the year.

BRIDGET: So as I think about what I know you believe in on having holistic end-to-end experience for your customers, I find your explanation all that was quite end-to-end and thorough.

BRIDGET: So I think that’s a real treat for our listeners to hear something so well articulated on something so important in creating value for the enterprise.

CHAD: Bridget, if I could just add something real quick, I think it’s not a coincidence that the numbers on the extent of Loyalty Data Integration almost exactly line up with the percents of brands that are collecting zero and first-party data.

CHAD: So I think it’s very clear that this is causation.

BRIDGET: Right.

BRIDGET: Exactly.

CHAD: That gap causes them not to collect data.

CHAD: So it’s nice to have the numbers line up so cleanly.

BRIDGET: Good shout out.

BRIDGET: Thank you for that.

BRIDGET: The last one, at least for now on the data points, is confidence and ability to extract actionable insights from loyalty data.

BRIDGET: Sixty-two percent are confident to very confident, with the balance somewhat to not at all confident.

BRIDGET: So interesting numbers here.

CHAD: I think this speaks more to just that fragmentation that Georgia was talking about.

CHAD: Because you need to be able to put the loyalty data together with what you’re seeing in terms of activity and other channels to get that 360-degree view of that loyalty member, that person, so often today, as Georgia eluded, we’re seeing slivers of our customers isolated in channels, and that doesn’t serve them well.

CHAD: So I think that’s what’s going on here as well.

BRIDGET: I think it’s important that the callouts that you all have made about organizational design, governance of the data, and then it goes on matters around how the data is ultimately integrated.

BRIDGET: So that’s really great, and I think that sets the table really well as we kind of move through our conversation.

BRIDGET: So based on these data points, what are the most salient learnings for our listeners?

CHAD: Yeah, so I think that the biggest learnings here is that program architecture, MarTech stack architecture seems to be what’s really holding people back.

CHAD: We’ve seen already, we’ve sort of highlighted that story, that lack of data integration is causing, seems to be very causal to them not collecting data.

CHAD: So that very clearly is holding them back, but we also see that like on the execution side as well.

CHAD: If you can’t bring all that together, then it’s really hard to action it.

CHAD: Also, to analyze it, right?

CHAD: So I think there’s a few things that need to be happening.

CHAD: I think there’s like, there’s three big things.

CHAD: I think one is aggregating all of your customer data across channels in one place, whether that’s in a CDP or whatever it might be, having it all in one place, you can get that 360 degree view.

CHAD: The second thing is advanced analytics, making sure that you’re actually getting insights out of the data.

CHAD: I think so often we talk about data as though that’s the endpoint, and it’s not.

CHAD: You need to look deeper, you need to see patterns, you need to extrapolate, you need to see lookalikes and understand affinities.

CHAD: There’s a whole lot that can happen to get from just a bunch of data, which everybody is swimming in data.

CHAD: Everybody is just drowning in data.

CHAD: That’s not what you need.

CHAD: Really what you want are clear, actionable insights and advanced analytics is how you get there, but you have to aggregate all the data first.

CHAD: Then the final step, step three, is having omni-channel orchestration.

CHAD: You can action that data, action those insights across various channels, including loyalty.

CHAD: I think that is one of the big takeaways, is that most brands or many brands don’t have all three of those things set up, and that is really hampering their abilities to really extract the most out of their loyalty program.

BRIDGET: Yeah, I think you raised a great point here.

BRIDGET: Data is the raw material, right?

BRIDGET: The finished good is more like the insights that comes from the advanced analytics.

BRIDGET: I think that’s really an important callout.

BRIDGET: I think it comes back to why is the value not being realized through a lot of the structural issues within the company, right?

BRIDGET: And so it’s there for the taking.

BRIDGET: It’s just a matter of thinking about it differently inside the company.

BRIDGET: And so I think what I would like to talk about is now, the Forrester study is very helpful in framing the status of respondents leveraging or not their loyalty data.

BRIDGET: With 100% respondents, 100% experiencing barriers that limit the effective use of loyalty data.

BRIDGET: Now, as someone who’s been in the space for a while, I can’t say that I’m shocked.

BRIDGET: I feel like we’ve been here, and why aren’t we busting through it?

BRIDGET: Is there more to add on top of what you’ve already said, or what are the barriers, and what is preventing the companies from breaking through?

GEORGIA: I can start with that.

GEORGIA: I was thinking about this while I was reading the Forrester report myself, and I think sometimes it’s simply a force of habit.

GEORGIA: And what I mean by that, a transactional model is so much easier to manage and use it to target people, right?

GEORGIA: Because it’s immediate, it’s quite measurable.

GEORGIA: How much money did we produce from this that much?

GEORGIA: But what it does is that it usually focuses on isolated interactions, rather than the cumulative value the customers can have.

GEORGIA: So, you know, this way, brands really get stuck into, what did the customer do for us today, like short-term thinking versus how can we deepen this relationship over time?

GEORGIA: Today, we have Georgia that her customer lifetime value is $100.

GEORGIA: How can we make another 100 from her in the next month?

GEORGIA: Not how can we get her to be a $1,000 customer lifetime value, right?

GEORGIA: So, I think this is where, you know, a lot of brands are facing issues and where a lot of transformation programs do not succeed.

GEORGIA: It’s because, you know, the structure is the rewards still remain transactional only.

GEORGIA: And, you know, to overcome that, of course, there are many, many different ways that a brand can do that.

GEORGIA: But I think, you know, it’s again, this holistic approach of customer relationships versus a standalone marketing activity.

GEORGIA: And you need the team’s alignment around the share outcomes, business outcomes.

GEORGIA: You need to understand what data is useful for the team.

GEORGIA: And amplify this data.

GEORGIA: Measure the back of any campaign related to your loyalty program, rewards, redemption, important metrics and so on.

GEORGIA: And then, you know, start having almost a mindset shift from short term activity to longer term value.

GEORGIA: And which means, of course, that this way that you can start designing experiences that are personal, that are useful, utilities is a very, very important factor of successful loyalty programs.

GEORGIA: And of course, consistent across different touch points, because I think a lot of times, marketeers might forget that a loyalty program is probably one of the most consistent things in any customer experience because you can experience it online, offline, in store, with stuff in store, in many different places.

GEORGIA: So, this is a great opportunity for a brand to make their customers see the relationship with the brand, the whole relationship, rather than a series of disconnected transactions or campaigns or some activations that happen throughout the year.

GEORGIA: Yeah.

BRIDGET: So I think, again, a lot of great points being shared here.

BRIDGET: It takes courage and confidence on doing something that is going to consume time and resources, that you feel good and confident in the outcome.

BRIDGET: And that really is the way to move from transaction to transformational experiences with your customers.

BRIDGET: So I think that’s really important.

BRIDGET: The one thing I do want to just zero in on, before we think about what could all the solutions look like is measurement.

BRIDGET: And oftentimes, you’re going to hear all about, oh, the outcomes I want to have.

BRIDGET: But is it possible that the upper funnel behaviors that are associated with that outcomes are not getting enough attention by the brands in terms of their pursuit of customer loyalty?

CHAD: Yeah, I wanted to backtrack just for a minute.

CHAD: I love what Georgia was saying about the organizational challenges.

CHAD: And certainly, it’s very easy for me to say, oh, get a CDP and get advanced analytics and omni-channel orchestration, that easier said than done, right?

CHAD: Not the simplest thing to do.

CHAD: But I do think that the organizational realignment is the more challenging of the two things, between the technology and the change management.

CHAD: I think the change management is the bigger thing.

CHAD: I think there’s a lot of entrenched need and positioning, and people getting defensive.

CHAD: And you see that show up in the analytics.

CHAD: You see that show up in any conversation about attribution.

CHAD: And you see it also like sometimes in some gamesmanship, you know, across channels where in many cases, you know, you’ll, or oftentimes you’ll see one channel essentially cannibalizing another channel.

CHAD: And then it’s like, oh, look, that channel is not doing so well.

CHAD: Maybe we should take some of their budget because we’re doing so well.

CHAD: And that’s why the need to centralize, the need to understand what is happening at the customer level and not at the channel level is so critical because you could just find out that you’re just moving, moving money around across channels, but not actually getting greater share of that customer’s wallet, which as Georgia said, is like, is the point.

CHAD: So that’s why it’s really critical.

CHAD: And so I wanted to just, you know, put a fine point on that.

CHAD: Now, so definitely in our report, it was very, I thought it was very interesting.

CHAD: And I’d love to know what Georgia thinks as well.

CHAD: I thought it was very interesting that the metrics that folks said that they were the most focused on were really sort of North Star metrics.

CHAD: Like I was very happy to see that.

CHAD: You know, so the customer lifetime value and retention and loyalty, like really high at the tippy top.

CHAD: I thought that was great because that was not what I was expecting to see quite honestly.

CHAD: But then the question became, since they were focusing quite a bit less on some of these sort of like feeder metrics, I think we started to have doubts about whether or not they were really seeing the whole picture.

CHAD: And I think what I would argue is that you need both.

CHAD: You need both categories.

CHAD: You need to make sure you have that North Star, but you need to make sure you’re paying attention to those like those leading metrics to make sure that you’re continuing to drive towards that North Star.

CHAD: So you need both.

CHAD: In the same way that when we talk about attribution, I know I very much discourage people from single touch attribution, whether it’s first or last.

CHAD: I always say, don’t do that.

CHAD: That doesn’t make any sense.

CHAD: So like consumers don’t function that way now.

CHAD: You really need multi-touch attribution.

CHAD: But I have to always remind myself, but yes, absolutely still look at first and last.

CHAD: So you understand which channels are playing a role early and late in that interaction.

CHAD: So I think I would say the exact same thing here is that you need both camps.

CHAD: You need the North Star, absolutely.

CHAD: That helps make sure that you’re not doing, having gamesmanship between channels or cannibalizing channels.

CHAD: But you also need those other metrics to make sure that you’re actually building towards your North Star in a healthy way.

BRIDGET: That’s right.

BRIDGET: Well said.

BRIDGET: I mean, you’ve got your North Star.

BRIDGET: You have your strategy.

BRIDGET: You know where you’re going.

BRIDGET: But the underlying tactics to get there need to be cared for comparably and the measurement towards achieving the tactics is important too.

BRIDGET: And then, the second point that I think you articulate so well, I’ve observed many business units creating their KPIs and squashing them and they’re excited about it.

BRIDGET: Yet the company doesn’t make their KPIs.

BRIDGET: And so that’s where you got to have this reflection that you’ve been talking about here.

BRIDGET: Money is being moved around, it’s not being amplified, it’s not working as hard as it can.

BRIDGET: And I think sometimes when you don’t have common metrics, which then can drive some alignment and even like throw compensation in the mix to really get folks excited, you may end up with a bunch of sub-KPIs being met, but overall underperformance at the company level.

BRIDGET: So all really important points for our listeners today.

GEORGIA: Yeah, I think to be honest, the only thing that I would add here is that a lot of times what we forget, both as technology vendors, but also brands, is that a loyalty program is not a standalone tactic in the grand scheme of things within an organization.

GEORGIA: Like brands that actually do loyalty well, put loyalty in the center of everything.

GEORGIA: And because now we have also a shift in the market towards more community-driven programs, more brand participation experiences.

GEORGIA: Those experiences might live in different channels.

GEORGIA: They might appear in channels for purely engagement purposes and it’s really, really hard to measure the brand affinity that happens on the back of those campaigns, which maybe the end goal is to actually convince someone that this loyalty program is so, so relevant to them and they should subscribe.

GEORGIA: But the way to do that is, I don’t know, through storytelling on TikTok or through educational content on YouTube.

GEORGIA: But this does not mean that all of these activities should sit away from the Northstar KPIs of a loyalty program.

GEORGIA: So I think that, again, it’s just all of these conversation around attribution and who does what, and which business unit is winning.

GEORGIA: But I think the moment you put loyalty as an ecosystem right at the center, maybe the conversation becomes a bit easier.

GEORGIA: If you know that all the paths and all the customer experience should, of course, lead to the number one metric, make revenue, make money, but then also the engagement with the brand, also the engagement with the Loyalty program, definitely it clears up a lot of confusion between different channels, different metrics.

GEORGIA: Are we doing a good job versus we are not hitting our KPIs?

GEORGIA: So this would be my addition here.

GEORGIA: Customers today are in many different places.

GEORGIA: And at some point, it might be, I wouldn’t say impossible, but very hard to pinpoint exactly the moment Chad, for example, became a fan of Nintendo.

GEORGIA: You know that he’s there and he’s shopping and he’s interacting, but in many different places because it’s a household.

GEORGIA: So I just want to say that this exists today.

GEORGIA: And despite it being a bit hard to get measured, it shouldn’t sit very far away from the core loyalty strategy and the customer experience strategy that brands are building.

BRIDGET: Completely agree with that.

BRIDGET: Thank you.

BRIDGET: Thank you for that additional point.

BRIDGET: Okay, so now we have set the table.

BRIDGET: And let’s start painting the picture of the art of the possible.

BRIDGET: Customer loyalty programs are the foundational element of modern customer strategy, serving as the engine of engagement and the critical source of customer insight.

BRIDGET: So how does a company absolutely situate itself to reach its potential?

BRIDGET: What would be your overarching thoughts to our listeners today on this very question?

GEORGIA: You know, I think Bridget and to all the marketeers who are listening today, having a loyalty program for the sake of having a loyalty program or making a big investment in a loyalty platform because, you know, it’s an overall business objective and we need to do that because we see the competition doing that and cannot yield the results if you don’t have very clear outcomes, if you don’t have a very clear model that explains the return on the investment that each brand will make to achieve those KPIs, to ensure that by the end of year one, they have these results.

GEORGIA: Year two, we have these results doubled.

GEORGIA: You know what I mean?

GEORGIA: You need a very clear picture of what you need to do as a brand, of what you need to deliver as a Loyalty Manager or CRM Executive or Marketing Manager to be able to build a program that can really help drive engagement and revenue.

GEORGIA: Of course, technology is means to an end.

GEORGIA: There are a multitude of platforms that can deliver many different things.

GEORGIA: But the core of success, I want to say, when we look at Loyalty Programs is audience understanding.

GEORGIA: By understanding your audience, understanding the behaviors these audiences exhibit, by also understanding what’s relevant to these audiences, right?

BRIDGET: That’s right.

GEORGIA: Exactly.

GEORGIA: Because maybe for me as a marketeer, a points-based system is very relevant because it’s easy to handle, it’s somewhat fixed and I can set it and forget about it.

GEORGIA: But my audience might not want anything related to points.

GEORGIA: So I think understanding audience is factor number one, but also factor number two, which is really, really important before I hand over to Chad for his contribution too, is a Loyalty Program is meant to be a living and breathing organism within any brand.

GEORGIA: It’s not something that we built today and then we forget about it whether it’s doing well or not.

GEORGIA: So I think again, this mindset shifts from building something, allowing it to run for a while, review the results, reiterate, build again.

GEORGIA: Of course, these are things that when you’re thinking about making the investment on a loyalty program, you always need to have on the back of your mind an exit plan or a reiteration plan, because we all understand there are costs involved.

GEORGIA: But by having this mindset of almost like experimentation, innovation, newness and being truly agile in the way you interact with your customers through your loyalty program, it’s quite important because at the end of the day, customers are moving very, very fast, and their expectations are becoming higher and higher.

GEORGIA: The differentiation in this market is really difficult because everyone has access to great technology.

GEORGIA: I think it’s really about having a blend of those key elements, like your audience understanding, but also the ability to change and reiterate.

GEORGIA: We do have great brands actually that have done this here at Zeta with their legacy loyalty programs.

GEORGIA: They would not achieve what they wanted to.

GEORGIA: A great example is World Market.

GEORGIA: You know, they did have very large customer base, over 30 million people, right?

GEORGIA: And they had coupons and blackened discounts.

GEORGIA: We know that these things do not serve audiences today as well as they used to in the past.

GEORGIA: So they leaned on us because they wanted an enterprise-grade loyalty solution that could help them, you know, evolve very flexibly with what they were doing with their customers.

GEORGIA: So they really relaunched their program, gamified, you know, different fun experiences, punch cards, activity-based challenges, instant rewards that made the customer experience feel very, very different, very curated, engaging across multiple channels, which is also very important because as we were saying before, customers live in multiple channels, right?

GEORGIA: So they did that.

GEORGIA: They saw great, great results.

GEORGIA: And the product ratings increased because it’s another metric that they were interested into.

GEORGIA: They had a large lift in their food sales as well across different summer campaigns they were launching.

GEORGIA: And then finally, you know, they did see a 300% increase in their customer reviews and engagement and brand participation during the months that the campaigns were picking.

GEORGIA: So this is a great example and a good reminder that, you know, even if you start with something that you do not see evolving as you thought it would be or as you were expecting, there is always a chance for reiteration, opportunity for improvement.

GEORGIA: And of course, the more you get to understand what drives good sustainable behavior, both from an engagement and revenue perspective, the better you are positioned to bring this to market and allow this long-term relationship building with customers.

BRIDGET: Well, as I listen to you, it’s like your core product or service has to be relevant.

BRIDGET: Good value in terms of how customer c-value has broadened.

BRIDGET: It’s not just incentives.

BRIDGET: You know, give me exclusive access or create some gamification.

BRIDGET: The customer is like, I’ve broadened my view of this and changing consumer demand curves.

BRIDGET: And the merchant, the brand has to be on top of this if they want to stay relevant and meet their KPIs, right, of more revenue, more profitability.

BRIDGET: Okay, that’s awesome.

BRIDGET: What would you like to add to that, Chad?

CHAD: Yeah, so that’s all, of course, like what brands want to build, right?

CHAD: Like that’s like their vision.

CHAD: And I wanted to add in that like our vision is to support all of that underneath.

CHAD: And so like for instance, we feel very strongly that loyalty should be part of this omni-channel orchestration.

CHAD: So we, that is our vision for how loyalty should work.

CHAD: At the same time, you know, we want AI, because AI is at the core of everything we do as data.

CHAD: We want AI to accelerate and to enable what loyalty programs are trying to accomplish, whether that’s through faster campaign creation, or it’s through analytics, or timing, or whatever it might be.

CHAD: AI is at the heart of that, agentics speeding things along, allowing people to focus more on the strategy and a little bit less on those sort of manual tasks that you have to make sure that happen.

CHAD: And then also another thing that we value a lot here at Zeta is really being able to understand your customer, going beyond the data that you have.

CHAD: We have something that we call Zeta data here.

CHAD: A lot of information about lots of consumers, primarily in the US., that help you understand them much better, so through data augmentation.

CHAD: And also we have a lot of what we call intent data, so sort of short-term data, things that have just happened, those signals that you need to act on pretty quickly.

CHAD: We also have that as well.

CHAD: But that gives a fuller picture of your customer, because if you’re only using first-in-series party data, then you’re only seeing a small part of who that person is, because you’re only seeing the interactions with your brand.

CHAD: But they have interactions with lots of other brands that really help sort of fill in the picture, so you can understand what they’re doing and who they are as a person in a better way that allows you to make sure that you’re messaging them in a way that makes more sense, and it’s gonna resonate more strongly with them.

BRIDGET: How does that enable latent demand, kind of observing things that might prompt you to like, oh, I’m a latent demand for the consumer, how do I get in front of that with them?

CHAD: Yeah, so for instance, if we see that they are engaging in certain kinds of content, either on third-party websites or with third-party newsletters, that’s information that you could use to then personalize your messages to them and understand maybe an interest that you didn’t know that they had, because you just weren’t seeing that side of their personality.

BRIDGET: I love all of this.

BRIDGET: And this next question is really exciting to me.

BRIDGET: That came out of the Forrester study as well.

BRIDGET: Over the next 12 months, 92% of respondents plan to invest in their loyalty data to better leverage it.

BRIDGET: What do you think this conversation is going to be like a year from now?

BRIDGET: It’s not as hard as asking you what AI is going to be like in the next hour.

BRIDGET: When we have the reunion tour a year from now, what do you think we’re going to be talking about with 92% going to be making investments?

GEORGIA: I think this is a very interesting question.

GEORGIA: I think from the side that we’re sitting, like the vendor side, is also very interesting to us, to almost forecast what our marketeers will care about.

GEORGIA: But I think that now we’re in a position that a lot of brands understand the power of data.

GEORGIA: A lot of brands are really doing their best to activate this data, to understand more, to understand which behaviors are driving, what outcomes and so on.

GEORGIA: But I think in a year from now, I’m hopeful that the conversation will move on from investing in loyalty data to providing and proving actually what that investment is actually enabling.

GEORGIA: Because in my mind, these two things are quite different.

GEORGIA: So I think in a year, brands will almost be expected to show what their data is doing.

GEORGIA: Where is it connected?

GEORGIA: How actionable it is?

GEORGIA: Are they in a position to drive better outcomes across not only a loyalty program, but the whole funnel, as we were speaking about before?

GEORGIA: And of course, what impact does it have to the customer experience?

GEORGIA: So I think the conversations we will be having in a year from now are also going to be a lot around curation.

GEORGIA: And it’s my new favorite sort of like thinking like how can we fine-tune, curate unique customer outcomes and experiences, stronger attribution.

GEORGIA: And of course, again, I’m very hopeful that we will be talking about how loyalty can become a more central part of the overall business commercial strategy rather than a standalone marketing tactic that exists there.

GEORGIA: And you know, it drives some engagement, drives some revenue, and it’s great for a marketing theme.

GEORGIA: I’m really hopeful that we will see loyalty expanding into the different areas of the business.

BRIDGET: Awesome.

BRIDGET: I love everything you just said.

CHAD: Very clearly.

CHAD: I think brands absolutely know that their stack is holding them back.

CHAD: They know their architecture is holding them back.

CHAD: And so I think they know exactly what they need to do.

CHAD: Those three things, it’s centralizing customer data, advanced analytics, and omniscient orchestration.

CHAD: I think they all know that those are the three things they need.

CHAD: It takes time to get buy-in and to implement.

CHAD: So my hope is that a year from now, we’re really closing that gap on the percentage of brands that are collecting zero-

CHAD: and first-party data.

CHAD: We’re not going to be at 100% for both of those, although that is clearly the goal.

CHAD: But it’s so clear that architecture and MarTech, I guess, is holding brands back from doing that.

CHAD: And so I’m hoping that that technology gap starts to close so that more brands can be collecting more zero-

CHAD: and first-party data via their loyalty programs to use in their loyalty programs, but also across all of their channels in a coordinated and cohesive way that builds customer lifetime value.

CHAD: I think that’s the vision.

CHAD: I think they all know that’s where they need to get to.

CHAD: It’s just a process.

BRIDGET: This has just been a terrific conversation.

BRIDGET: I must share with you, Chad and Georgia.

BRIDGET: I’m just enjoyable, and I’ve learned a lot, and thank you.

BRIDGET: Are there any other comments or insights you’d like to share?

BRIDGET: It seems like Zeta would be a terrific partner as brands think about evolving all this to create the superpower that is customer loyalty data.

BRIDGET: Anything you have to share as we wrap up this session?

GEORGIA: One last thought that it’s around, like traditionally, a lot of brands would lean on different partners to achieve an excellent result on the loyalty program.

GEORGIA: But here at Zeta, I think what we can also offer is, we have very strong teams that can offer advice and strategic support around loyalty program design, CRM optimization.

GEORGIA: Sometimes brands might be a little bit reluctant to ask of support or to lean into their tech vendor because it’s a tech vendor.

GEORGIA: But it’s definitely worth at least exploring this avenue as well, because as we becoming more and more technocratic, I guess, in the way we approach the customer experience, you’ll have to have people in your roster of vendors who understand both technology and strategy and AI, of course, to help you really nail down what it means, a holistic omni-channel experience as Chad was saying.

GEORGIA: We’re also a partner that our brands can lean into for full support, not only technology.

CHAD: 100 percent.

BRIDGET: Well, this is my view as we close out that some brands have figured it out, some are figuring it out, but it’s going to be figured out.

BRIDGET: And in the absence of doing something, the opportunity cost to your brand is only going to grow.

BRIDGET: So my view is, it might as well be you figuring this out.

BRIDGET: So thank you both very sincerely.

BRIDGET: Okay for our listeners to have your LinkedIn and our discussion notes today?

BRIDGET: Very good.

BRIDGET: Very good.

BRIDGET: So thanks again and thanks everyone for listening to this edition of Lets Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

PAULA: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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