#533: Culture Drives Innovation - Dan Murphys

Today, a conversation unfolds with Diana Sinclair, who holds the role of Senior Loyalty Manager at Dan Murphys. With over 15 years of experience in client and agency domains, Diana has cultivated expertise in CX, CRM, Loyalty, and Direct Marketing.

As a strategic leader, Diana prioritizes a ‘customer first’ ethos, enabling her to spearhead innovation and transformative initiatives. Presently, she assumes the helm of the My Dan’s loyalty program at Dan Murphy’s.

The upcoming discussion with Diana delves into the evolving landscape of points within loyalty programs and the pivotal role of culture in fostering innovation.

Hosted by Carly Neubauer

Show Notes:

1) ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Diana Sinclair

2) ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dan Murphys

3) ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠My Dan’s Membership

Audio Transcript

Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m Paula Thomas, the Founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and also now Loyalty TV. Today’s episode is hosted by Carly Neubauer, Co-founder and Director of Elevate Loyalty and Pay2Elevate, an Australian based company specializing in loyalty and incentive services, global rewards, and digital payment technology.

If you work in loyalty marketing, you can watch our latest video interviews every Thursday on www.loyalty.tv. And of course, you can also listen to Let’s Talk Loyalty every Tuesday, every Wednesday, and every Thursday to learn the latest ideas from loyalty experts around the world. 

This show is brought to you by Comarch, a multi-country leader in customer engagement tools that help you forge meaningful connections and boost profits, leveraging over 10 years of experience in utilizing AI technology. From immersive loyalty programs to captivating marketing campaigns, Comarch helps you deliver personalized experiences across every touchpoint, gather valuable insights, understand customer behavior and watch your brand recognition soar.

Comarch, where innovation meets customer satisfaction. To learn more, visit comarch.com.

Carly: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. My name is Carly Neubauer, and I’m the Co-founder and Director of Elevate Loyalty, a loyalty and incentive services company specializing in global rewards and digital payment technology. 

Today, I’m talking to Diana Sinclair, Senior Loyalty Manager at Dan Murphy’s. Diana has over 15 years experience working in both client and agency environments, spanning across CX, CRM, loyalty and direct marketing. Diana is a strategic leader with a customer first approach, which has allowed her to drive innovation and change. And today she currently leads the My Dan’s loyalty program for Dan Murphy’s.

I hope you enjoy the discussion with Diana, where we talk about the future of points in loyalty programs, where there is one, and how culture drives innovation.

Hello, Diana, and welcome. 

Diana: Thank you, Carly. Thanks for having me. 

Carly: Thank you so much for your time today and joining us to share not only your impressive background, but also insights into one of the most well known loyalty programs in Australia. You have some notable stats in your program with 8 million members, over 5 million of them being active, plus reporting a member spend being double that of a non member. So I’m really looking forward to hearing more today, and thank you again for joining me. 

As we all know, we start with one very important question on Let’s Talk Loyalty. So which is your favorite loyalty program? 

Diana: So, to start with that question off the bat, I’d have to say it is a very, one everyone would know, which is the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program. I, of course, it’s a fan favorite, but I would say it’s very near and dear to my heart because of the smart tiering and points mechanics they use. It’s got quite a superior CX experience and definitely that app first mindset. And alongside its strong partnerships model, it really does make for like a powerful program from a commercialization aspect. So I think all those little things that banded together makes it very strong. I would say I definitely use the app for repeat usage, stickiness and engagement. So I’m sure they would see that with their engagement metrics as well. 

Carly: Oh, this is so cool. You’re really looking at it from a loyalty expert perspective here and reflecting on those loyalty principles, not just as a consumer and one you love, you’re really looking at the loyalty side of things. So that’s a great start to this conversation. That’s awesome. 

And so let’s move on to you though, as well. First, before we kick into your current program, I’d love to hear about your background and your story. Do you want to tell us a bit about how you found yourself in the loyalty industry? 

Diana: Yeah I would have to say it’s definitely not been a straightforward journey. So I’ve got you know, over 15 years experience, but it’s across, you know, customer marketing field. So customer experience, CRM, what we used to call direct marketing and loyalty. So, I’m personally a Sydney girl, born and bred, and I you know, started client side at companies like 3Mobile, which is no longer here in Australia, and then Vodafone in CRM Marketing, and then I got quite bamboozled by agency side and going to them when I was working on campaigns with them.

So I took the leap into that world and became a suit and then also a CX planner for quite a few agencies. So I got to work on great, blue chip clientele like Telstra and MMI, Mercedes Benz. I’m an IAG. So I got to work across campaigns insight strategy.  But I think that really allowed me to establish a great ways of working leadership style. And also got me to Melbourne, 10 years ago. So, but of course, people that are listening and might be in the agency game I thought enough late night working. And I wanted to take the reins back and work back on client side so I could drive strategic change for the business instead of my clients. So it led me back to client side, so notably T2 Tea, and then the last five years has actually been at Dan Murphy’s in the fields of loyalty specifically.

Carly: Yeah, I’m sure anyone from the agency side can understand that the attraction to that move. Absolutely. 

Diana: Yeah. 

Carly: Oh, awesome. So can you talk to us a little bit about some of those memorable moments and key takeaways, especially from the early roles? 

Diana: I think key moments career wise would be like. You know, launching a major campaign, a log site, a client or unearthing some amazing insights, customer insights, that’s really led to winning a great strategy and, you know, we’ve landed winning an Effie as well or being able to drive significant incremental value for Dan’s business. Those statue ripped off at the beginning. And I would say more recently being asked to speak at the annual conference for the Australian Loyalty Association last year was definitely some great key moment.

But I would say personally, like my most memorable moments beyond that have not, haven’t been company focused, but more the people I’ve worked with, like great culture embeds a high performance team. I’ve really learned that, you know, memorable moments from working with people, working with teams, working in a great culture, you know, that aligns to your values. That’s a memorable moment for me. 

Carly: And it’s interesting you touched on this because I think when we think of Dan Murphy’s as a loyalty program, we’re thinking of the industry and the numbers and the stats, but what you really talk to as well as the internal culture that is so appealing to this business and the program.

Diana: Yes, definitely. I would completely 100 percent agree with that. We definitely have a high performance team and a great culture at Dan’s. And we’re all there supportive for each other. So, definitely it really makes a big difference. You come to work like over 50 percent of your working, like of your week. So, you know, you need to be really happy and really inspired to go to work. 

Carly: What do you think they do and you do as a leader that really drives that? 

Diana: I think we’ve got, I’m personally have an authentic and empathetic leadership style, which I am very passionate about because I, you know, being brutally honest, if you said those words 10 years ago, even five years ago, it wasn’t seen favorable in the business, you know, especially as a woman, like, It was to show no emotion and almost be a robot, you know, at work. So, by being that authentic self, you’re able to influence and empower teens rather than tell them what to do or be pictorial. We’ve got quite a lot of that type of leadership within our business. So I think that really makes us all tick. 

Carly: This is awesome. What about some of the challenges you may have faced? So anything in particular that on the flip side?

Diana: Yes.

Carly: May have made it a little bit more challenging and hard to move forward. 

Diana: In terms of Key challenges, I think the challenging landscape of the CRM loyalty world, you know, back in the day there were direct marketing roles where your focus was to send out campaigns, you know, straight to like a letterbox or an email was a nice second.

I think it’s challenging to see the landscape that sometimes loyalty and CRM roles are now expanded to include tech, strategy, marketing, data, social, and like everything in between. So sometimes companies are looking for a unicorn and you can’t be that. It’s instead of going, gosh, I can’t fit this role, or I can’t, you know, am I still do I need to learn new skills? I think it’s focused, you know, I’m more around strategic loyalty, customer perceptions, feelings, rather than the tech side, but I build up my team. So what I lack, you can actually see that as a superpower within yourself, and then strengthen up other areas of the business. You can’t be everything in terms of the loyalty and CRM landscape.

Also, I think like, another challenge is because of this changing landscape. Like, make sure you just continue to adapt and learn as you evolve, you would know, you know, no, no points in tiering and NFTs and like, you know, now, like all around data and just constantly having to keep up I don’t see that as a challenge. Some people could. I see it as like such a great way to innovate. And if you don’t innovate, you’ll die. So you’ve, I think it’s great to jump on that train and, you know, go with it and see where you can optimize your loyalty program. But some people could see that as a challenge. 

Carly: Sure. I guess there’s definitely no shortage of things to learn to adapt to in the loyalty landscape. We are very fast paced and ever evolving at this point in time. That’s for sure. 

Diana: Yeah. 

Carly: Anything particular that you love about the industry, any of those things that stand out to you personally? 

Diana: Well, probably like I said, like I actually love the continual movement in this space. You know, keeping up with it and the fact that we have a freedom to fail kind of methodology. So, you know, for us, we’ll take on that innovation. You know, just a little trial that we’re willing to do that and that continual innovation is, you know, part of an optimization, but you get a better program out of it. 

Carly: This is really cool. Talk to us a bit more about that freedom to fail, because that’s not always going to be a popular idea in a business. I imagine. 

Diana: No. I think we’re having that freedom to fail fast, fail nimble, fail quick, pick yourself back up and go again. That’s definitely like that agile methodology, so which we have within the wider business network. So we’re able to continually focus on like test and learn incremental and we need this, like, the worst thing is to go and do a complete overhaul of your program, go launch it, set and forget, and then go, oh, two years later, you know, like pick it back up again.

It should be that continual hence why last year I talked about at the conference, like an optimization strategy of your one percenters to get you to that new innovation space. But I would say, like the freedom to fail, it needs to be established within your business that you are able to work that way in that agile way and also freedom to fail is not seen as a negative thing. It’s actually seen as a positive thing. 

Carly: Great way to learn, obviously. If you’re failing, you’re learning. 

Diana: Yes. 

Carly: And I love your quote, innovate or die. So, absolutely. And it’s true in loyalty you know, programs that get a bit stagnant there’s always this space for evolution. What about some lessons that you’ve learned, career and or loyalty? So some of the most important lessons that you can talk to us about today? 

Diana: I think in terms of the important lessons is that, you know, still going on about that freedom to fail that I didn’t have that mindset approach at Dan Murphy’s, yes, but in previous workplaces, no. And that probably led to stagnation.

So it’s very interesting that you say that because I can see programs in that type of form of stagnation or even CRM programs, like someone might have set up a retention program, and then they haven’t touched it for, you know, one year or something, or they’re not continuously learning, and you see the same emails, like, from the company, like, so I think I was scared.

I was, and so how do you have more, you know, I’ve learned that being scared is not a bad thing, which has led to that authentic and empathetic leadership style and really embracing it. So, I would say that’s a really important lesson. But yeah, that, that freedom to fail is definitely what I’ve learned over my career. 

Carly: What changed for you? How did you get there? Was it the cult, was it the culture or was it you? 

Diana: I think it was me. I’ve probably, I think you may, maybe in your 20s, you’re not there yet, but as you might get to your early 30s, you might be just like, stuff it. Like, enough is enough. Like, I’m ready. Maybe you’re ready to take a, maybe you’re ready to look how would I say, maybe give yourself the self worth and put yourself on a podium. So I think you’ve gotta just like back yourself. 

And I think like loyalty can be a bit of a lonely space sometimes, like, I love the Australian Loyalty Association because they set up, you know, ways that we can connect, but otherwise loyalty feels sometimes like, you know, I’m not able to just reach out to a peer and talk about that space. So, again, this pod, podcast, you know, listen to this podcast and maybe talk to your, you know, loyalty friends or reach out to someone in the network that, you know, via LinkedIn, you might want to just connect with. Because I think, I think that’s great as well. 

Paula: Just before we continue today’s discussion, I want to ask you to sign up to the Let’s Talk Loyalty email newsletter. Our email newsletter is by far the best way for us to keep you up to date with all of the latest incredible loyalty stories we’re sharing each week. It’s also the easiest place for you to find our show notes with links to everything mentioned in all of the episodes. 

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Carly: So that does lead me on to my next question. Some advice that you would give to someone starting out in loyalty. And I think that you’ve probably started to answer that with. 

Diana: I have, I have. 

Carly: But I’ll let you continue, please.

Diana: Keep on answering the question before you get to it. Yeah, exactly that. I was, I know, especially, my team who are young and ambitious and really want to connect definitely please like reach out to fellow loyalty people on LinkedIn. Also reach out to maybe, you know, a mentor or two. It’s very important to have a mentor in this industry that, you know, has got your back, will give you great, strong advice from time to time.

Yeah, I think also another piece of advice besides looking after yourself is to be that strong advocate of loyalty in your own business. So, you know, keep your eyes out on the marketplaces, both here in Australia, like understand the trends, what’s working, what’s not you know, like, what about NFTs? And we were all talking about that, but, you know, I think like just you know, having that authoritative. Way to speak about loyalty within your own business is quite strong and we’ll set you up as being that loyalty expert. 

Carly: Absolutely. And it’s interesting and can be challenging if you’re the key or only loyalty member within the business, but then explain and showcase the value to the rest of the key stakeholders as well. And what about the customer? Customer needs, member needs, behavior, et cetera. How would you approach that if someone was starting out in loyalty and they were early days? 

Diana: That’s a good question. Got me on the spot, but that’s okay. Let’s go. So I think when you’re starting out in loyalty, customer needs, member needs, please don’t think you know who your customer is. So, you know, please you know, work on insights, work on qualitative and quantitative data in order to get insights, understand what your member actually needs. Based on that, then, you know, also look into research, look into reports, understand what their needs are, how does your loyalty program stack up against it?

And then, you know, have you got a feedback loop? So if you’re asking for customer feedback in the beginning, at what point are you asking how the loyalty program Or whatever you’re doing is going, is that monthly? Is that weekly? Like, what’s that feedback loop with your customers? How are they feeling about your product? How are they feeling about the experience? Like, if it’s in store, we it’s great that Dan Murphy does have very strong insights around that. So we get consistent like monthly and quarterly updates on that so we can see how the customer is tracking and their thoughts and their feelings towards us as a brand.

Carly: Oh, that’s great. And also, I guess that sort of level of information starts to build out. Well, what we will talk about shortly, a very successful program. Within your program and the business, how do you define success? How is it measured and what are those parameters for you?

Diana: Yeah. So I’ve got here, that and I had to write these ones down, so I did have to think about it. So, how we define success is your customer lifetime value as a direct result of the program. Also, As you would know, like, a positive P&L statement, so where the program costs and resources aren’t outweighed by how much you’re making. Like, what is the loyalty program making in terms of incremental uplift? So we’re very strong at looking at that as an always on approach. 

And then you’ve got, besides obviously those sales metrics, we’ve got engagement and sentiment metrics. So, you know, how, what’s the stickiness to the brand? What’s the stickiness to the program? And then obviously, like you said, you know, what’s the participation with the loyalty program? So what is what we deem the scanning rate, the scanning of the card? What’s the, how many active members do we have in the program? So yeah, we’ve got, you know, in terms of that, our active members are at an all time high. So 5.2 million out of 8 million. And our scan rate is circa around 80%. So, you know, obviously that’s a really, they’re world class metrics. I would call them, which is great to say. 

Carly: Yeah, there’s no doubt. I think a lot of people would aspire to have their program reporting those levels of stats. So really can big congratulations to you as well. 

Diana: Thanks. Yeah. 

Carly: Job well done. Let me ask the flip side, of course. What sort of challenge are you facing then? Because obviously those stats are phenomenal. No question, but how do you then look at your, the industry you’re in and some of the key challenges of your program? 

Diana: Yeah. And we are facing a big challenge. I think I said it at the conference. So, our generational, the up and coming younger generation and it’s no surprise that their influence on alcohol consumption is around moderation.

So, you know, they, as they come up, you know, fast into the drinking population, but when I said, when I say, I call them generation Z and millennials, so we call them mill Zeds but they’re fast becoming, you know, half our drinking population with a moderation towards that. So you know, It’s good to look at macro trends and, you know, what is your up and coming macro trends around your products that yourself and that influence things.

So, obviously with that, you know, we need to tackle how do we, you know, point one was around sales, incremental value, how are we going to make year on year growth based on this. 

Carly: Where do you even start? 

Diana: I know. And it’s not just obviously it’s not a loyalty program. That’s just a huge macro trend, you know, the same as like inflation for us and no one’s like the decrease in purchasing like luxury goods or, you know, like, so it’s something to tackle long term for brands. Yeah. 

Carly: Well, there’s no doubt, I guess, impacts to the business overall and changes to whether it is inflation or the general industry changes or demographic changes. It’s still a loyalty problem to solve as well. So, always interesting to see how the loyalty programs help solve the business problems. We’ll watch this space. It’s very interesting to see how you tackle this when you’ve got a generation drinking less or in moderation, and how you maintain this as well. 

So talking about the industry and the macro changes, any particular big game changer that you’ve seen, good or bad in your career as well? And it can be program or others. Let’s talk a bit broadly as well. 

Diana: Yeah. So I will name, I’ll name names. 

Carly: I’ll name names. 

Diana: I’ll name names. I would say, look, I’m going to be basic. The influencing in tiers and samples, and you have to call out MECCA Beauty Loop as being a great example. I think they’ve just nailed it, in terms of that, and it is quite a successful program because of that, and just the FOMO of missing out on not being in your tier or your level, like, to receive that little beauty loot box, definitely has some stickiness to it, which is quite interesting.

Have to call out, like, the most one of the biggest, and you would say Woolworths Rewards and Coles, like, yes, it’s just a points program, but no, it’s not just a points program. It’s the way they use points. It’s the way they personalize and gamify points. It’s a way they also, you know, have it so easy to tap into like with your rewards wallet on your app. Everything is just so seamless and simple from a CX perspective. You know, Woolworths was launching I read today that, you know, 10 bonus points, like they’re able to boost the points and bonus points and win points. And I just think it’s a great mechanic for them. And it’s been a game changer for the industry, like you can’t deny that.

And then also harnessing the power of personalization, I think I have to do the shameless plug of my Dan’s and the one to one communications team for really nailing this and they just won actually the award at the Loyalty Association’s Gala, which is great, but the personalized, relevant comms that you’re able to see as a direct result of really speaks volumes. This is, do you remember when we used to send emails and it was a one size fits all approach to your customers? Like, so I think personalisation isn’t just personalisation, it’s tapping into the customer needs on a one to one level and provide a personalized response. So you’re able to talk to a customer directly, really. 

So I think those are the I’ve only spoken about the good though, haven’t I? Not the bad. I don’t have any bad ones. 

Carly: That’s awesome. That’s fine. 

Diana: It’s too empathetic to say I have any bad ones. So, you know. 

Carly: We have a brilliant industry. 

Diana: Yes. 

Carly: Okay, that’s okay. We don’t have to have any bad that stuff. What about where you think the loyalty industry is going to be in five years? Where are we going then? So this good, where are we taking it? What are we going to do? 

Diana: Yeah, I think even though I was talking about points, I do think there’s been a real shift in I think they will be, and this might be controversial, but I do think they might be less influential on a business. They obviously are a fixed cost to the business as well.

So why not move away from it when you’re in this kind of economic environment? I think emotional engagement is the future that we haven’t tapped into as much as well as this digital first mindset that I saved a bang on about. So a real focus of yeah, like a offering that doesn’t involve price and product.

So, you know, also I think subscription model, I think some people do it well, but I think like there’s only evolution upon evolution and innovation in that space that you can play in, right? So, we might start to see like super secret tiers or seeing some great stuff overseas with super secret tiers unlocks physical pop up store, so, and it’s, you know, then one on one personalized service, like, to like, I don’t know, I think it was bags and only for a two month window. But just like stuff like that, like money can’t buy type of access, in exclusives. I think because, you know, loyalty programs have so much been in the price, product points, you know, where’s this, you know, Emotional engagement tapping into that.

I also, of course, we know data, hygiene, data integrity, as reforms come into place, data security. I think with like, we obviously take it seriously, but the amount of manpower to have that securely locked down and implemented in your business is quite huge. So I think like people are acknowledging the investment needed and getting read geared up for it. So I think in five years time, it will be a big area of businesses, business units. So I think they’re the main areas. 

Carly: Well, I think we’ve heard it here first. Points are on their way out. So interesting prediction.

Diana: Oh my God!

Carly: I’m watching, I’m going to be watching this space closely. No, I see what you’re saying there. I see what you’re saying there. It’s not that they’re not as valid. It’s that emotional connection is becoming a bigger priority and will really resonate more with consumers and members as we go, so.

Diana: And I think that taps into consumer insights where Jen said to the most loneliest people out of our generations, right? So every generation of younger cohorts are craving this emotional engagement. And it’s beyond, and so they’re on their digital first mind, you know, a digital first app. That’s how they’re looking for connections. So they’re actually looking now for emotional connection with brands, emotional connection with products, with programs because of that. So I think that’s where that’s coming out of.

Carly: And the expectation that they have, even subconsciously, that they need that and want that. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. What about if we talk about the good, the bad, the ugly, but more at an inner tone of best practice or how we can improve and maybe areas to avoid that. Hey, look, that’s not looking so sharp. Let’s not go there. 

Diana: Yep. So I’ve got for the good. I’ve got some emotional engagement, obviously partnership, strong social media influence the play. Broad marketing communication, customer lifetime value and long term metrics, data ethics and first customer data acquisition, a digital first mindset and business wide ambassadorship. I thought that was a great word. 

Carly: Yeah, really. Yeah. Tell us about the social media influencer. How do we bring that into loyalty? 

Diana: I think you obviously work with your broader marketing teams because you know, you don’t own that, but you know, for your up and coming generations, are they not on TikTok and Instagram, like, three to four hours a day, so that’s where they play. So be where they play. They’re not I doubt they’re on an email, I doubt they’re on your desktop website you know, they’re in your app. So it’s more just being there, where they are and what are you gonna, how are you gonna surface up your loyalty program to them? So that’s all I will say about that. 

Carly: Okay, we’re getting some insights into some of the things that may be coming. Okay. 

Diana: No, I’m very passionate about just Influences, social media partnerships. I think, like I said, that’s a space to play in and yeah, where they’re at. But I don’t have the rhythm of how that would turn out. And I think each business would have their own kind of strategy around that. But yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s very strong. 

In terms of the bad, I had no ownership of your customer data relying a little too hard on points, the CX customer experience not at the forefront of your decision making process. And then I had as ugly that you only see. The program as immediate sales weekly uplift. You don’t see any reporting on the success of the program. You don’t have any creative agency support and you may not have opt in for marketing communication. 

Carly: That’s always a challenging one in a loyalty program. How do you generally overcome that in your program if you don’t have that marketing consent? 

Diana: Look I think. Yeah, it’s very hard. It’s hard if you don’t get it up front. Very, very hard. I don’t think it’s something we’ve actually solved. I think it’s something that we constantly, at least we have, you know, rigorous reporting and people looking at it and people seeing the real importance of it. So I think that’s the first step in the right direction.

Carly: Yeah, absolutely. 

Diana: Yeah. 

Carly: Before we do close out this fabulous discussion, let’s just go back to you a little bit and what do you feel most proud of? 

Diana: I am most proud of the My Dan’s program. I have seen It grow over the last five years that I’ve been in the business along with my loyalty peers, it’s just gone from strength to strength. And this, like this, what I talked about last year, so may not be new news, but it was around a strategy of optimization. So it, I, the analogy is like a spanner with a car rather than buying a new car, like we just optimize and optimize and we stayed true to the program CVP and framework and like, it’s remained largely unchanged since we launched it in 2015.

So we continually worked on upgrades, enhancements that drove those one percent of changes. So I’m very proud of that. I would say it’s very much like that Atomic Habits book of the 1% ers lead to real change. And like our CEO, Steve Donohue, like he speaks about that power of the program, like you know, yeah, the 8 million members and 5.2 being actively participating in the program. And I think, so our members spend almost double the amount of our non members, like in every transaction. Yeah, there’s wonders for it. Yeah. 

Carly: Absolutely. And again, like we talked about earlier, these stats are no doubt what plenty of loyalty managers would love to see in their program as well. What about life and loyalty? What do you know for sure? 

Diana: You can also take this as part of the My Dan’s program, where I’ve learned to never forget the power of advocacy. So, and that’s what I said was about the good. One of the good metrics is that our business and you know, our leadership, like, have a day 100 percent back the program, 100, 150 percent back the program.

The store teams, the casual people on the stores, like back the program. So it’s always like, have you got a My Dan’s card? Can I look you up? Can I sign you up? You know, you’re going to get this on member offer. I’ve got an event that’s happening in you know, on Tuesday night. Do you want to buy a ticket for it? It’s only for members. So it’s, they’re continually the driving force behind the program and its success metrics. So if your business doesn’t have that support for you, I remember, gosh, and I’ll quote it now, but I don’t know if it’s, but when I was working with Telstra, you know, NPS was quite a new metric and they had NPS as a key metric for the whole, all business unit. But that really drove a significant shift in supporting customer experience. 

So, for us, we don’t have a loyalty metric for the whole business, but we are very behind a few key metrics, hence why Steve is able to publicly talk about it, like it’s in our board reports. So, yeah, if you don’t, if you don’t have that strong force you may be doomed to fail from the beginning. So, you know, I would say, oh, well, if you don’t have it, that’s okay. Like you’re able to, you know, maybe your first task as you now, like a new job, or maybe you want to reinvigorate that is to go into the business and start that advocacy of the program within the different business units. 

Carly: It’s great to hear you say that, because I’m sure there are plenty of people that have had that exact challenge by starting in a new role and without the stakeholder buy in internally, it can be very challenging to launch or evolve a program and take it to the next level and even show commercial return. That’s, it’s not always an easy, easy task. So, the idea of advocacy is a great place to start and top down approach obviously is working at dance as well. To the point, you’ve got store staff that are so engaged again not an easy feat. So very well done for the program and the business overall. 

Diana: Yes.

Carly: In regards to leadership style?

Diana: Well, I’ve, I suppose I’ve already talked about that, but, you know, define your leadership style. No, and back yourself like I said, ]you know, my type of style took me a little while to see it. Not as a weakness, but you know, as a real superpower. So I think just you know, there’s a lot of leadership style resources on the internet and even quizzes to take. Maybe your workplaces help you in defining your leadership style and then the strengths and weaknesses out of that. So I’m really glad to foster collaboration and empowerment within my team. But what works for you? And how does that then work with the business values? 

Carly: Well, some of my favorite outtakes of today as well is not only your point around knowing your own superpower and then building a team around you that have different strengths and can bring different assets to the program, to the business, but also your love to learn, innovate or die. So good. Whether it’s the motto for life and or loyalty. Fabulous. And also this freedom to fail. And again, it’s great to hear that it’s come from the business overall, but also you being an advocate. For this style as well. It’s the only way to learn freedom to fail. I love this. So a very big thank you.

Once again, how would people find you connect with you and tell us a bit about where, how, where we would find you Diana?

Diana: You can find me on LinkedIn and you can definitely connect with me. Please do. Love to have a chat. Oh, yeah. 

Carly: Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate you joining us and talking about your background. Definitely predictions for the future, which I’m exciting to watch this space and also a very successful loyalty program. So thank you. 

Diana: Thank you, Carly, so much for today. Thank you. 

Paula: This show is brought to you by the Australian Loyalty Association, the leading organization for loyalty networking and education in the Asia Pacific region. The Asia Pacific loyalty conference will take place on the 7th and 8th of August this year at the Gold Coast, Australia, with over 350 guests in attendance, including yours truly from Let’s Talk Loyalty. I can’t wait to meet so many loyalty experts from the Asia Pacific region in person.  Register now to hear global experts discuss current trends in loyalty marketing. There will be fantastic networking opportunities, hosted drinks and dinners, appointment bookings, competitions, and great prizes to be won. 

Visit AustralianLoyaltyAssociation.com to find out more. 

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