From Treats to Trust: Insights from Pets at Home (#678)

Charlie: Hello, Maddie, and welcome to the podcast.

Charlie: I’m so excited that you’re joining us today.

Charlie: It is one of my favorite programs, and one of my Pugs’ favorite programs that we’re going to be learning all about today.

Maddie: Good to hear that your Pug is a member of the Pets Club.

Maddie: I’m really happy to be here and talk Royalty.

Charlie: Please tell us about Pets Club.

Charlie: What is the program?

Charlie: How does it work?

Charlie: What do people get?

Charlie: And how does it sort of fit into the Pets at Home experience?

Maddie: It’s over 10 years old.

Maddie: It’s got just over 8 million members.

Maddie: We want the club to be helping you be the best human for your pet.

Maddie: We see Pets Club and the Pets Club app as the front door to that experience.

Maddie: We’ve done a lot of digital transformation to get the platform and the tools, and it’s now about how we use those to bring your pet care experience to life.

Maddie: Every time you spend with us, we give money to both local charities of your choice, and then we give to national charities as well.

Maddie: We know that the club members are significantly more valuable to us.

Paula: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Paula: Today’s episode is hosted by Charlie Hills, Chief Strategy Officer of MandoConnect, a UK-based agency that uses smart data to create brilliant partnerships and rewards that really work.

SPEAKER_4: Enjoy.

Charlie: Hello, and welcome to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

Charlie: As Paula mentioned, I’m Charlie Hills, the Chief Strategy Officer for MandoConnect.

Charlie: In this episode, I’m delighted to interview Maddie Shaw, the Marketing Director of Pets at Home.

Charlie: Maddie and her team develop and deliver the Pets Club Programme for Pets at Home, the UK’s leading pet care business, providing the best products, services, and advice to guide owners through their pet care journey.

Charlie: Today, we’re going to be learning all about her favourite book, highlights and key learnings from the programme she’s worked on, and of course, all about the ever brilliant Pets Club.

Charlie: I really hope you enjoy our conversation today.

Charlie: So hello, Maddie, and welcome to the podcast.

Charlie: I’m so excited that you’re joining us today.

Charlie: It is one of my favorite programs, and one of my Pugs’ favorite programs that we’re gonna be learning all about today.

Charlie: So welcome to the show.

Maddie: Well, thank you, and good to hear that your Pug is a member of the Pets Club.

Maddie: I’m really happy to be here and talk loyalty.

Charlie: Oh, it’s great.

Charlie: And I think our listeners are gonna love this one.

Charlie: And hopefully we’ll cover off lots of cute animal stories, as well as some very serious loyalty marketing topics.

Charlie: But before we get into all the brilliant news about the program and what you’ve been up to, I’m gonna start off with Paula’s favorite question actually.

Charlie: So I’d love to know sort of what’s your favorite book about life, leadership, loyalty, or what would you like to share with our listeners today?

Maddie: Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this actually.

Maddie: I’m an avid reader.

Maddie: I read all sorts of books about business and leadership.

Maddie: And actually, it’s a little bit of a strange one that I think is my favorite.

Maddie: And it’s a book called Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed.

Maddie: And I think it was because a lot of leadership books or books about how to succeed in business focus on the things you should do, like the positive things.

Maddie: And actually, this book focuses on failure and when things go wrong.

Maddie: So there’s some really shocking statistics in there where it compares the airline industry and the medical industry and their response and attitude to failure.

Maddie: And therefore, how many mistakes are made.

Maddie: And there’s a really shocking statistic that says, in the US, the number of medical mistakes that lead to death is like a jumbo jet falling out of the sky every 16 minutes, which is bonkers.

Maddie: And basically saying a lot of that is down to the way in the airline industry with the use of the black box.

Maddie: They really interrogate what went wrong, they learn from it and they improve.

Maddie: And that ability to question, to allow a safe space for people to question things that went wrong and understand why really means that they improve and get better.

Maddie: Whereas in the medical industry, often it’s challenging to question all authority, the amazing surgeons and their ego and the way they’re painted as saviors.

Maddie: So it really encourages people to create safe environments for us to challenge and learn from our mistakes.

Maddie: And that’s the foundation of future success.

Maddie: And I think both in my personal life and my work life, it’s just been such a key learning for me to keep moving forward.

Maddie: Oh, that’s brilliant.

Charlie: Yeah, we’ve not had that one before.

Charlie: So listen out, everyone, and go check it out.

Charlie: That’s quite a hot topic at the moment, isn’t it?

Charlie: How to fail.

Charlie: We’re certainly seeing that actually in a lot of the loyalty programs as well that we work with, that real experimentation culture.

Charlie: And actually, before you had to get everything right.

Charlie: Whereas I’ve really observed some of the brands that we’re working with, going, we don’t know if this is going to work, but we’re going to give it a go and then learning from that failure.

Charlie: So maybe it’s starting to trickle through.

Charlie: That’s very cool.

Charlie: What about your favorite loyalty programs?

Charlie: Obviously, I know you’re a bit of a loyalty nut, and you’ve got Pets Club, but which ones do you like?

Charlie: Which ones stand out for you?

Maddie: It’s really interesting.

Maddie: I was thinking about this.

Maddie: I think as a loyalty professional, we have a really in-depth knowledge of loyalty schemes, don’t we?

Maddie: So, I really admire Sephora.

Maddie: I think they do a brilliant job of creating a community, sort of getting hold of a passion that their consumers have, creating that community, building experience and real emotional connection.

Maddie: So I think they’re amazing.

Maddie: And I used to work for Boots, so I’m bound to say the Advantage card.

Maddie: I think that’s evolved through the years.

Maddie: And I still, even though I don’t work there anymore, use my Advantage card regularly, because I think the way that you build up points for something that’s totally designed to be a treat and something that you gift yourself and it feels completely free of charge, is like a really good reward.

Maddie: And it keeps me saving those points up.

Maddie: And having worked there, I know there are a lot of fanatical Boots Advantage card point collectors.

Maddie: But when I think about me as a consumer, I think actually my favorite one is a really simple one, and that’s Costa.

Maddie: So I think it’s a really simple scheme, and it’s really clear how you earn the rewards.

Maddie: The rewards are frequent, meaningful, and expected.

Maddie: So you know when they’re coming, you know exactly what you need to achieve them, and you get a free gift at the end of it.

Maddie: And I think they’ve built on that and started to personalise some of their other recommendations and offers to help me shop in a different way.

Maddie: And I guess the reason it’s one of my favourites is it actually works.

Maddie: Like the whole piece around the commitment bias, I’ve already saved up those three Costa beans.

Maddie: That means next time when I’ve got an option to go to Starbucks or Costa or Nero, thinking, oh, but those beans are there waiting for me, I need to go for the next one.

Maddie: And I think that means I’m almost locked in every time I’m considering a coffee.

Maddie: So super simple, easy to engage with, and really rewarding in terms of the regularity and the certainty that I’m going to get that reward.

Charlie: Yeah, I mean, those three programs come up a lot actually when we talk to our guests, because they’re so brilliant.

Charlie: You know, for Beauty Insider for content, community is absolutely amazing.

Charlie: Doing some really clever things with AI as well at the moment, which I really like because I’m a bit of a geek when it comes to tech.

Charlie: I also used to work at Boots and I love the ad card.

Charlie: And even though they went from four points in the pound to three points in the pound, everyone’s let them get away with it because you get 10 percent off your own brand stuff.

Charlie: But it is, it’s a lovely, lovely program.

Charlie: And I love the way it sort of, it taught the British population how to use loyalty programs is the one I always really feel.

Charlie: And that save it up and get something treat.

Charlie: When we’re off there, we’ll have to talk about what your last treat was.

Charlie: I’m curious actually.

Charlie: I got myself some lip balm, which ended up just sticking my hair to my face for ages.

Charlie: But I’d be interested to see what you got.

Charlie: And then, yeah, that Costa program.

Charlie: My favorite thing about it is it’s twice as good if you use your own mug.

Charlie: And I think that’s one of those lovely, kind of clever little examples where it makes commercial sense, but it’s also really good for the planet as well.

Charlie: Yeah, I love that program.

Charlie: My personal theory on the coffee shops as well is because they’re always so close together, it does actually lock you in.

Charlie: Whereas in other sectors where you have to travel further like petrol, it’s much harder to get that locked in behavior.

Charlie: But you can normally see a Starbucks, not too far away from a Costa and it does the same thing for me.

Charlie: It makes me walk too.

Charlie: So yeah, very, very cool examples.

Charlie: What about your background in loyalty marketing?

Charlie: What do you enjoy about it?

Charlie: What are the differences between being at boots and pets at home?

Charlie: Tell our readers a bit about your history.

Maddie: Yeah.

Maddie: Well, I’ve been in marketing all my career.

Maddie: I actually did my degree in advertising and marketing.

Maddie: So I was one of those strange people who actually knew what they wanted to do when they grew up.

Charlie: Very rare, very rare on this show.

Charlie: It’s normally accountants or all sorts of people that come into loyalty program.

Charlie: So brilliant that you knew straight from the off.

Maddie: Yeah.

Maddie: And actually, my first job was in CRM and Loyalty in a really small company.

Maddie: And what I loved about it was exactly, I think what you referenced that accountants, etc.

Maddie: come into it.

Maddie: I love the fact that you can be a scientific marketer in Loyalty and CRM.

Maddie: It’s data, analytics, getting under the trends and the insight.

Maddie: And that really appeals to the fact that when I was very little, probably about five, I wanted to be a scientist.

Maddie: So that fact, that data, that analytical mindset both partnered with creativity and human connection.

Maddie: And I think the best Loyalty programs and the best CRM programs pair those beautifully.

Maddie: So yes, it’s about mining the data, understanding your consumers and how to meet that need propositionally, but also doing that in a way that really connects a brand and a human level, and really uses that creative.

Maddie: And I think, you know, there are so many sort of incremental gains you can get in the Loyalty and CRM space by just tweaking little things and experimenting.

Maddie: And I think that’s just an amazing opportunity to pair those two skills.

Maddie: And I think the opportunity we have nowadays with the tools and the data available to us, I mean, you just touched upon AI, which I think is just completely changing the way that we can address some of these customer needs or create fun and excitement into journeys.

Maddie: This is a really exciting time to be working in Loyalty.

Maddie: In a way, a little bit scary, I’d say, as well, because I think with all that opportunity comes great responsibility.

Maddie: And I think it’s making us question ourselves as Loyalty Marketers in terms of how all these new tools, technologies can enable, but how we use them in a way that’s really responsible and sustainable.

Charlie: Yeah.

Charlie: I think that’s a really interesting point, actually, because a couple of years ago, people used to ask me, and I always find it such an easy question to answer, you know, could I just see what the technology can do, or should I try and identify the customer need and then get the tech to fit?

Charlie: It was always such an easy thing, you know, what does the business need?

Charlie: What does the customer need?

Charlie: And then do it that way around and see what the technology can deliver against it.

Charlie: But I think AIs really change that now, actually.

Charlie: I think you almost need to have a slightly different mindset, go, well, what could it do?

Charlie: What is the art of the possible?

Charlie: And then sort of play it back, because I do feel like we’re in a bit of a changing time, actually, and we’re going to start creating some new needs that we don’t know that even exists.

Charlie: Yeah, quite terrifying.

Charlie: The Pug would have very strong opinions, obviously, on this topic.

Charlie: What about the program as well?

Charlie: Because obviously we in Britain, we love the brand, we love the program.

Charlie: You’ve changed it up, obviously, fairly recently, but we’ve got an international audience here.

Charlie: So it would be brilliant to sort of get the basics.

Charlie: Like, please tell us about Pets Club.

Charlie: What is the program?

Charlie: How does it work?

Charlie: What do people get?

Charlie: And how does it sort of fit into the Pets at Home experience?

Maddie: Okay, so I’ll start with the basics.

Maddie: So it’s called the Pets Club.

Maddie: It’s still affectionately known by its old name as well, and we’re trying very hard, which was the VIP Club, the very important Pet Club.

Maddie: And the reason we changed the name fairly recently was when we rebranded the business, we wanted to make sure that the Pets Club really reflected our whole proposition.

Maddie: So we have retail stores, we also have vets and grooming services, and then a whole plethora of digital capabilities.

Maddie: So the rebrand was in line with the business rebrand, and to bring it more to be the front door to the Pets experience.

Maddie: So it’s over 10 years old, it’s got 8 million members, well, just over 8 million members.

Maddie: And I’d say it’s probably got three parts to it in Maine.

Maddie: So first of all, it’s a way for us to reward loyalty through offers and discounts.

Maddie: So you will get personalised rewards or your pug.

Maddie: Doug, is it?

Charlie: Almost.

Charlie: I wish she was called Doug.

Charlie: That would be very cool.

Charlie: That might be the name of my next pug.

Charlie: Although I kind of want to get one called LaLloyd.

Charlie: I just think it would be really funny in the dog park to have to call out LaLloyd or possibly Blade.

Charlie: Another really great name for a pug.

Charlie: No, she’s called Edna.

Maddie: Edna, I apologise.

Charlie: I don’t know where I got Doug the pug from.

Maddie: Edna, as part of the club, would get tailored offers based on her breed, her life stage.

Maddie: And actually, I guess that is a bit of a unique part of the club.

Maddie: The pet is the club member.

Maddie: So offers rewards, a way of giving a value exchange and the reward for your loyalty.

Maddie: We have also just launched Pets Club Prices.

Maddie: So our version of Club Card Prices, and that was based on a big piece of consumer research that we did around what’s really resounding well from that value exchange, and feeling like our best prices for our most loyal customers and was really well received.

Maddie: So it’s a way to access our best prices.

Maddie: I guess the next part is more around, to your point, the love of the nation’s love of pets.

Maddie: So we have, over half of the households in the UK have a pet.

Maddie: We’re very passionate about them, and more and more they’re being seen as part of the family, almost humanizing the pet.

Maddie: And actually what we found is a lot of consumers find it very difficult.

Maddie: Like pet ownership is hard.

Maddie: We like to call it the glorious chaos.

Maddie: There’s loads of fun and joy, but there’s also loads of messes on the carpet, and chewed toys, and missing pets.

Maddie: And so we want the club to be helping you be the best human for your pet.

Maddie: So how do we give you all the tools, the advice, the content, the offers even to make your life with your pet as enjoyable as possible.

Maddie: So the second part of the scheme is around personalized journeys, advice, experiences and content that allow you to live a brilliant, happy life.

Maddie: In amongst the glorious chaos.

Maddie: So journeys tailored to you with content and experiences that are relevant to your pet and your life stage.

Maddie: And then the third part is the community element.

Maddie: So you talked about Sephora.

Maddie: We definitely look upon them as inspiration on how you create a community around a shared love and passion.

Maddie: And I’d say this is probably the part of the club that’s got more to do.

Maddie: But trying to bring those pet owners together, there’s tons of research to show that pet ownership actually creates human bond.

Maddie: You’re far more likely to start a conversation in a park with a stranger if you have a pet.

Maddie: And we know how important pet companionship was through COVID.

Maddie: So trying to create that community, that connection, that real feel of I’m a member of a club with other people who share my same passion and experience.

Maddie: And so things like our Lifelines program, which offers donations every time you shop to a charity in your locality that you have chosen, which means you can really feel your community and the pets in your community benefit from your loyalty within the business.

Maddie: Or things like we organize member events, like free tickets to Good Wolf, which is an amazing dog event, which I would very much recommend if you love any form of four-legged friend.

Maddie: And things like Winter Walkers, where we organize the lovely Claire Boulding to take our club members and all their pets on a walk around the local park.

Maddie: So definitely that community spirit and element is a big part of the club that we’re developing.

Maddie: Yeah.

Charlie: And I’ve really seen that.

Charlie: So I’ve been a member now for five years and I’ve really seen that grow, actually, since I kind of first started and we started off in sort of puppy club and then kind of came through.

Charlie: So yeah, it’s a really nice component to the program actually.

Charlie: And it’s another one of those areas in loyalty that’s growing up.

Charlie: It was really, really a hot topic 10, 15 years ago, then it kind of died off and actually now that power of digital tech is bringing it back in.

Charlie: So it’s a brilliant program.

Charlie: One of my favorite things about it is really silly.

Charlie: I love it that when you open the tailwags at you, I always think that’s really cute.

Charlie: It always makes me smile as I’m picking it up.

Charlie: And I think those little moments of joy within the program are really key.

Charlie: I know there’s so much in it, but if you had to pick two things that you think set it apart or one or two things that you think really set it apart from the rest, what would you call out?

Charlie: What do you think are the standout things?

Maddie: Yeah, so I think actually I’ve touched upon one of them and you did from the Puppy Club.

Maddie: So I think the way that we, I guess, tailored a club to you as an individual through your life.

Maddie: So our ambition is to be with you for the life of your pet whenever you need us and to offer proactive help, advice, content, experience, and that really enhances that ownership journey.

Maddie: And I think that ability to use all the data that we have, you know, we’ve been in business for 30 years, the club’s been going 10 years, we have vets, groomers, we have health data on your pet, purchase data on you, and more and more we’re collecting data about what your pet loves so that we can really personalize.

Maddie: And I think that ability to tailor those journeys and be really useful to the customer beyond the offers and discounts, which are still a key part of the club, that’s where we get most of our positive feedback, where we’ve helped someone proactively with the content we’re able to provide through the data that they share with us, and we’re able to be useful and helpful in their pet owning life.

Charlie: Yeah, I hadn’t thought about it actually, because that’s being able to pull that whole architecture together, the amount of insight you would have on the pets, especially if they’re registered with the vets as well.

Charlie: So you have you’ve got everything from life stage to operations to illness to size to weight to everything.

Charlie: Gosh, that’s what a lot of our listeners, we think, wow, I wish they had that on their audience and they’ve got nothing even close, you know.

Charlie: They’ll be lucky if they’ve got an active email address.

Maddie: Yeah, and to be fair, you know, I think that poses a challenge as well, you know, and I’m sure multiple businesses have experienced this where you have different parts of the business where they have their own data sets and connect in that data.

Maddie: And again, you know, it’s health data on your pets, sensitive data.

Maddie: So again, using that purposefully and responsibly so that it actually adds value to the consumer and doesn’t feel too, too scary in terms of that data being utilised is really important to us.

Maddie: So I’d say that’s number one.

Maddie: And then I touched upon the other.

Maddie: I think pets, I’ve worked in a lot of purposeful businesses.

Maddie: I’d say pets is that to the extreme.

Maddie: Like understandably, we have puppies running around the office.

Maddie: Over 90% of our colleagues have pets of their own.

Maddie: We say we put pets first and we really do.

Maddie: Our foundation is the largest grant giver to pet charities in the UK and the lifelines, which means every time you spend with us, we give money to both local charities of your choice and then we give to national charities as well.

Maddie: Just means that, a bit like your Costa example, we’re doing something that’s good for the business, but we also feel like we’re giving back into the community.

Maddie: Definitely when we’ve done research and asked people about the parts of the club that they love the most, it’s their ability to both be the best human for their pet, but also help the pets of the UK with every shop.

Charlie: Well, I think that’s really lovely.

Charlie: Actually, it’s often one of the case studies that we use actually because it’s a really great way of integrating charitable donation into the experience in a really relevant way.

Charlie: I love the way you can choose the local charities.

Charlie: I think that’s brilliant.

Charlie: Running a program of this size and scale and longevity, and then changing the name, a very controversial move at that stage in the life stage.

Charlie: There must have been some real highs and lows of running that program.

Charlie: Are there any highs and then some lows you’re able to share as well?

Charlie: I feel comfortable asking about the lows now, seeing as you opened with that book example.

Charlie: Where have you guys failed as well as where have you succeeded?

Maddie: Well, I might start with the lows because obviously I am a Black Box Thinker.

Maddie: I think very recently we’ve gone through a lot of changes of business.

Maddie: We rebranded the business and we’ve also replatformed all of our digital assets.

Maddie: So it has been very exciting, a little bit scary.

Maddie: But I think the size and scale of the change has had a knock-on effect to our consumer experience.

Maddie: So I’d say for the last 12 months actually, thankfully we’re now out of that period.

Maddie: There’s been a lot of disruption for customers and I think that impacted their experience of the brand.

Maddie: I’m sorry to say we’ve lost some customers.

Maddie: I think when you’ve got a very well established program, you’ve got a lot of goodwill and brand love from your consumers, then unintended consequences of the business change mean you’ve let them down.

Maddie: I think has been devastating for us as a business.

Maddie: So we’re in a big program to win back those customers that we lost because there are plenty of places that they can choose to spend their pet pound.

Maddie: Some of those customers have been lost and have established new habitual buying behaviors with other providers.

Maddie: So that means we’re having to be quite disruptive in order to win those customers back and actually using the club as a vehicle to do that, has also been some of the highs.

Maddie: So as a result of that disruption, we launched a new churn program which used some very snazzy data science models to actually predict when people were going to churn as well as address those who had already churned.

Maddie: So we could anticipate when people were becoming less engaged with us through their interactions with all of our channels, including our marketing, and then be able to say, right, we need to up weight how we engage with this customer to make sure either we win them back or they don’t lapse.

Maddie: So we’ve had some great results, but it came out of the fact that we disrupt that.

Maddie: And I think that’s one of my major learnings.

Maddie: A loyalty program isn’t the thing that creates loyalty.

Maddie: It’s expected, it’s a part of a package, but in reality, it can’t make up for a poor customer experience.

Maddie: And I think that’s been a major learning and a major low.

Maddie: And I think that means that in reality, your loyalty improves every single touch point.

Maddie: So being able to have your colleagues engaged in the promise you’re making with your loyalty club, every touch point building to that optimum experience is so important.

Maddie: So both a high and a low, I guess.

Charlie: That’s a great answer, though.

Charlie: And I think really honest, and I think that’s where loyalty kind of comes in.

Charlie: You know, churn is such a hot topic.

Charlie: It’s interesting.

Charlie: I think you’re the first sort of retail guest I’ve had on that’s actually talked about churn.

Charlie: And it tends to be more in the subscription businesses or telecommunications where actually we talk about churn.

Charlie: But that’s a really interesting way of thinking of retail.

Charlie: I suppose a lot of pet purchases are very habitual, aren’t they?

Charlie: It’s not like a human being eats exactly the same thing every day, 365 days of the year.

Charlie: But most pets do, don’t they?

Charlie: And I actually have really seen subscription kind of coming in through your product portfolio.

Charlie: So interesting.

Charlie: And then really nice to see how the club then plays to that and that importance of that frontline colleague involvement as well.

Charlie: What about the overall importance of the program in your company?

Charlie: Because obviously, as you said, you’ve been through this huge period of change.

Charlie: Where does the loyalty program sit as part of that ecosystem?

Charlie: How important is it?

Maddie: Yeah, I’d say, well, the way we talk about it is that it’s the front door to the experience of pets.

Maddie: And that’s definitely the ambition.

Maddie: So I’d say, hugely important.

Maddie: We put a lot of investment, a lot of time and a lot of effort behind it.

Maddie: And I think partly because it works for us.

Maddie: We know that the club members are significantly more valuable to us, particularly as they engage more and interact more with the business.

Maddie: But I think also because the competition is so high, it’s becoming expected and understood so well by customers.

Maddie: And actually, I’d say very savvily using their loyalty schemes to make sure they all get in the best value.

Maddie: And I think that’s great because that keeps us on our toes.

Maddie: And so I’d say it’s very much at the heart of the business, very well loved by colleagues as well as customers, but definitely a recognition that there’s far more for us to do.

Maddie: I think as a big business, we sometimes look at small digital startups and we’re so jealous about the pace and the risk appetite that they’re willing to have, to your point, to test and learn and get it wrong and move on.

Maddie: So we’re definitely a big part of our focus going forward is about how we become bolder and perhaps less careful around our club so that we can really innovate and test new things.

Charlie: Nice.

Charlie: And is that one of the most important lessons you’ve learned so far in the programme?

Charlie: Are there any others that sort of stand out to you over this last couple of years you’ve been through?

Maddie: Yeah, I guess one of them actually, and we were talking about this and you referenced it, how AI is changing or will change the way we approach things.

Maddie: We’ve always had a saying, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Maddie: And I do think we’ve been guilty in the past of seeing something as a loyalty professional we think is sexy or exciting or we’d love to test.

Maddie: And then without really understanding what value it drives for the consumer and making some sometimes quite costly mistakes.

Maddie: So I think there’s a bit of balancing to your point.

Maddie: I do think AI throws up a different question around it because I think it presents opportunities we’ve never even thought of.

Maddie: But I always go back to something the marketing director once said at Boots when I first worked there, which was that Boots did a customer experience survey in 1908 and asked people what they wanted from a brand.

Maddie: And when we do the same survey hundreds of years later, the answers are all the same.

Maddie: It’s just the way we solve that problem for customer.

Maddie: So great value, great experience, good available product and range.

Maddie: So I think a big bit for me is always focus on what value are you adding to the customer and what problem are you solving?

Maddie: And that seems so basic.

Maddie: But there are so many times where we’ve almost had to stop ourselves mid flow because we lost that.

Maddie: Because as professionals, we’ve got excited about something that in a career is great to test as a career, as a progression, but actually we forget the customer in it.

Maddie: So always remember the customer and make sure that you’re adding value or solving a problem for them in whatever way you can.

Charlie: Well, one of the things Edna wanted me to tell you was that if you could just start offering fresh cheese at the start of the program, that would be absolutely brilliant.

Charlie: So if on arrival, every time she comes to the store, she’d be recognized as a pet member and provided with some cheddar, that would be an absolutely excellent, excellent innovation to the program.

Charlie: She has very strong opinions on what else she should be getting.

Maddie: I shall write that down.

Charlie: Cheese platter on arrival for all pubs.

Charlie: I’ll message you when we’re coming to our local wooden store.

Maddie: Thank you.

Charlie: Other than cheese, what other success factors do you actually look at as a business for the program?

Charlie: You obviously talked about scale over 8 million members.

Charlie: That’s amazing.

Charlie: But what other KPIs do you work to?

Maddie: Yeah.

Maddie: Our main focus as a business is share of wallet.

Maddie: So if you think about the pet industry, so we are competing both pet specialists, of which there are very few and we are the biggest.

Maddie: But actually our main threat comes from more convenient providers.

Maddie: So at the beginning of a pet’s life, we are first choice because you have loads of questions, there’s loads of needs, we’re specialists, we’ve got a massive range.

Maddie: So actually, it’s really helpful to come to us when you are first a pet owner.

Maddie: But then as you progress, you can become more comfortable, your convenience plays a much bigger part.

Maddie: So actually, you can get dog food at the local supermarket, or you’re already on Amazon and you can drag and drop into the basket.

Maddie: So I think it’s really important for us that we gain that share of wallet.

Maddie: Over 50 percent of the pet owners in the UK shop with us at some point in time, but infrequently because with that special purchase, that special trip or that special click, we’re purely not as convenient.

Maddie: So a big thing for us is share of wallet.

Maddie: We know that the Loyalty Club increases your share of wallet with us because you’re incentivized to shop more.

Maddie: So membership is the main measure because we know that impacts that share of wallet and customer lifetime value.

Maddie: So we’ll focus on membership and we’ll focus on the balance of our membership.

Maddie: So are we properly representing the Pet owning population of the UK?

Maddie: Then the next measure really is once we’ve got you into our platform, our ecosystem, how do we make sure that you’re engaged in as many of the areas as possible?

Maddie: So vets, grooming, retail, because when you are a customer of all three, you are far stickier, so you stay longer with us, particularly if you think about the vets.

Maddie: You know, it’s not, it’s a major decision.

Maddie: You don’t want to change that too often, particularly when your pet is familiar with your vet, because that can sometimes be a little bit dramatic.

Maddie: So making sure that they’re engaged.

Maddie: So we measure how much cross engagement there is across our services.

Maddie: And then the third measure is channel engagement.

Maddie: So again, how many of our customers interact in store on the site and in the app, and making sure that we optimize for that.

Maddie: And then obviously, as CRM marketers, we have tons of KPIs beneath that that basically contribute.

Maddie: So whether that’s average transaction value, frequency of visit is really key to us again, because of that share of wallet, but they all ladder up to the core membership and lifetime value ones.

Charlie: Oh, that’s really interesting to see.

Charlie: I always think it’s really fascinating in a business like yours, particularly when you’ve got vets and grooming and then the retail business.

Charlie: There’s three such different experiences.

Charlie: When we go into the retail, Edna’s thrilled, she’ll bomb straight in.

Charlie: But when we’re going to the vet, I’m sort of dragging her and she’s like, feet out, doesn’t want to go and I feel a little bit the same.

Charlie: It’s a very different emotional experience, isn’t it?

Charlie: And to tie all that together into a single brand is very, very cool.

Charlie: What about the future?

Charlie: What are you looking at?

Charlie: I know you’re never sitting still.

Charlie: I mean, presumably you need to take a deep breath after what you’ve been through in the last couple of years and all that transformation and just spend six months going, right, does it work?

Charlie: Have we done it?

Charlie: But what are you looking at to the future?

Charlie: What sort of areas are you keeping an eye on?

Maddie: Yeah.

Maddie: So I think primarily for us, we’re continuing our digital transformation.

Maddie: So we are seen primarily as a store based business.

Maddie: And we think that’s more to do with the strength of our stores, really, than the weakness of our digital offering.

Maddie: I think we’ve been so well established.

Maddie: The experience in our stores is part of what makes our brand loved in the UK.

Maddie: People call us the Free Zoo in kids’ holidays.

Maddie: So we’ve got such a strong store experience.

Maddie: We want to be able to make sure that we give that experience to our customers, wherever they are, whenever they are.

Maddie: And we see Pets Club and the Pets Club app as the front door to that experience.

Maddie: So we’ve done a lot of digital transformation to get the platform and the tools.

Maddie: And it’s now about how we use those to bring your pet care life, your pet care experience to life.

Maddie: So the app will be a big focus for us developing the Pets Club app into the place for all things pet.

Maddie: So we talked about how much data we have.

Maddie: We’d love your pet health record to be on your app.

Maddie: So you can see when Edna’s next vaccination is due, you can get her last weight measurement and track how she’s progressing.

Maddie: It can alert you when Edna becomes a senior pet and her needs might be changing, so you can spot all those issues.

Maddie: At the moment, a lot of that is done via a one-way email communication.

Maddie: So we want to make it that much more two-way conversation, simple, easy to access through your app.

Maddie: And then that will also bring to life all the benefits of loyalty.

Maddie: So it has your vouchers in there, your tailored advice and content.

Maddie: So I think development of the app is almost, that’s your club card.

Maddie: It’s everything your club, and it helps you access all the great things that we have within the ecosystem at the touch of a button.

Charlie: Oh, that’s so great.

Charlie: I think that would be amazing as well.

Charlie: And I think product recommendations based on profiling is also something great because that’s what the vets do and the in-store colleagues do so well at the moment.

Charlie: You can go in and talk to them and then they can give you the recommendation.

Charlie: And it’ll be brilliant when you can get that digitally as well.

Charlie: So if we step back, I think we’ve learned a lot about Pets Club.

Charlie: And if anybody who’s listening or watching has got any more questions, Maddie is going to be available and we’ll put all her contact details in so you can follow up and ask any specifics as well.

Charlie: You might have a different pet treat that you require, an entry of cheese isn’t your pet’s thing.

Charlie: But what resources do you look at for updates on in the whole industry?

Charlie: What would you recommend to our listeners?

Charlie: Because you’re obviously always looking ahead.

Charlie: Where are the good sources?

Maddie: Yeah.

Maddie: I actually think obviously resources like this, so podcasts, I think there’s so many across the industry now, both in the wider marketing and the loyalty world.

Maddie: It’s always great.

Maddie: I think you commute like I do.

Maddie: It’s a brilliant way to feel like you’ve used your journey to the most effective way you could.

Maddie: I go to tons of conferences.

Maddie: So one of my favorites, I’m a behavioral scientist, not like it’s actually quite sad.

Maddie: So Nudge stock is a massive favorite of mine because I think that understanding human behavior and Nudge theory is definitely some of the best tests we’ve done in one-to-one communications.

Maddie: I think it really explains sometimes our, even though we know a loyalty scheme is manipulating us, we’re happy to go along with it because we also get that value exchange.

Maddie: So Nudge stock, MadFest, I think also we have two brilliant agencies who support us on loyalty and CRM, so Ogilvy and Oliver, and they bring us insight both from other clients who are happy to share, but also from the wider industry.

Maddie: I just think actually networking, it’s amazing how much you can pick up just from chatting to someone who I’ve never had anyone who I’ve reached out to in another business non-competing obviously to ask about their scheme, who hasn’t been willing to share and help, because I think to your point, we’re all loyalty nuts and we love to share what’s worked and what hasn’t.

Maddie: And actually, the thing that I found really interesting last year, I was a judge on the DMA Awards for the loyalty category.

Maddie: And, oh my gosh, seeing it from the other side, because obviously as a consumer, you can see the output.

Maddie: But understanding, you know, seeing 10, 12 great case studies of people who’ve really tried something different, you know, are award-worthy and really understanding the motivation, the process, the learnings was really interesting.

Maddie: So I think if anybody gets a chance to judge on any panel like that in the loyalty world, you see so much more than you do from the outside.

Charlie: You do.

Charlie: It’s fascinating, isn’t it?

Charlie: I’ve done quite a bit of judging for the DMA and the IPM as well.

Charlie: Never managed the International Loyalty Awards.

Charlie: They’ve always got too many British judges.

Charlie: But yeah, I find it fascinating when you then see how the story all builds together and then you see the execution of it.

Charlie: It’s brilliant, actually.

Charlie: And I think that’s one of my favorite things about the podcast, actually, and why I’m still so involved in it.

Charlie: It’s taking the learnings from one sector and then applying them to another, like you were talking about churn.

Charlie: I was like, actually, that’s really interesting to see that come to life from one to the other to the other.

Charlie: So everyone check out those programs and those sources as well.

Charlie: And I agree with you completely on the conferences.

Charlie: In all of that that you’ve been doing recently, are there any sort of things that you’ve seen that you really stood out or any innovations or anything you particularly admire?

Maddie: Yeah.

Maddie: Well, it was really interesting when we were judging on the loyalty.

Maddie: I think some of the stuff, weirdly, McDonald’s and Burger King, not necessarily because, sorry, at KFC, McDonald’s and KFC, not necessarily because I am a customer of theirs, I am, but just some of the fun they are having with loyalty.

Maddie: And I think, particularly for our industry, we have permission to have so much fun.

Maddie: And I think tons of learnings in terms of how they’re making, getting your rewards, actually an experience.

Maddie: So some of the gamification that in particular KFC have been doing, I think has been just so like people spending their own time to have that experience to win, what often is a fairly small reward and actually playing multiple times.

Maddie: I think that way of delivering something and the way you deliver it, making such a difference, I thought was so interesting and definitely something we will pinch with pride.

Charlie: Yeah, that was a hot, hot topic actually, gamification and play within programs.

Charlie: People are calling it sort of Joyalty, which I’m never quite sure about when people start making up new words.

Maddie: Well, I like it.

Charlie: It’s good, right?

Charlie: But it is true.

Charlie: It’s that actually how can you make the experience of getting the thing as fun as the thing is itself and actually playing for content.

Charlie: We’re seeing a lot of it in insight acquisition as well, that little quizzes and little games you can play and actually it’s the programs doing it to learn more about their audience, they can personalize it, but people just really enjoying the game within it as well.

Charlie: So yeah, I think that’s really good.

Charlie: I think the challenges that we’re seeing in the grocery sector are kind of a slightly boring way of doing it.

Charlie: It’s just all about spend a few more things and get them.

Charlie: But I think the play stuff is really nice.

Maddie: Yeah, and I think that’s really interesting because when gamification came up, I think there is this sort of allergic reaction to it, that it’s again, it’s something we can do, but should we?

Maddie: Because really, is anyone going to sit there?

Maddie: And I think those stats just proved, yes.

Charlie: Yes, they really, really do.

Maddie: As long as you make it enjoyable and engaging enough, they will.

Maddie: And I think, if you want your club to be a community and to be enjoyable, a more like a membership rather than something purely transactional, then not necessarily exactly that execution, but I am definitely going to take away joyeulty.

Maddie: Yeah.

Maddie: Joyeulty.

Maddie: Google it.

Charlie: There’s whole reports written on it at the moment, and we did loads of conference speeches on it.

Charlie: So yeah, we’ll catch up on that later.

Charlie: Oh, look, thank you so much for today.

Charlie: I know I’ve already offered you out, but in terms of if our listeners or our audience want to get hold of you, what’s the best way of reaching out to you?

Maddie: Yeah, I think, well, I’m on LinkedIn.

Maddie: So Madeline Shaw, easy to get hold of me there, just dropped me a message and I love chatting at Loyalty.

Maddie: They may regret getting in touch, Charlie, but I’m definitely happy to swap ideas and thoughts, so that’s the best way.

Charlie: We’ll put all those contact details and also the links where you can learn more about the program in the show notes as well.

Charlie: Though all that’s left for me to say is thank you.

Charlie: That was a brilliant episode and it really is a brilliant program.

Charlie: Thank you so much for coming along today.

Maddie: Thank you.

Paula: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketeer Group, publisher of the Wise Marketeer, the premier digital customer loyalty marketing resource for industry relevant news, insights and research.

Paula: Wise Marketeer Group also offers loyalty education and training globally through its Loyalty Academy, which has certified nearly 900 marketeers and executives in 49 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

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