Inside Decathlon Membership: Loyalty Insights with Pablo Sardina (#675)

PAULA: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

PAULA: Today’s episode is hosted by Charlie Hills, Chief Strategy Officer of MandoConnect, a UK based agency that uses smart data to create brilliant partnerships and rewards that really work.

PAULA: Enjoy.

CHARLIE: Hello, and welcome to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

CHARLIE: As Paula mentioned, I’m Charlie Hills, the Chief Strategy Officer for MandoConnect.

CHARLIE: In this episode, I’m delighted to interview Pablo, the Global Loyalty Senior Project Manager for Decathlon Membership.

CHARLIE: Pablo is a growth and CX expert in sports retail focused on loyalty and relational models.

CHARLIE: He’s spent the last seven years dedicated to drive digital products business value by delivering the optimal marketing strategy, including consumer insights gathering, go-to-market strategies, campaigns and activation planning.

CHARLIE: Today, we’re going to be learning all about his favorite books, the highlights and key learnings from the programs he’s worked on, and all about Decathlon Membership.

CHARLIE: I really hope you enjoy our conversation today.

CHARLIE: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

CHARLIE: I’m so excited to have you here today.

CHARLIE: It’s one of my favorite programs, and such a brilliant story.

CHARLIE: Welcome to the show.

PABLO: Thank you very much, Charlie.

PABLO: I’m really glad to be here today with you guys.

CHARLIE: Everyone’s going to love it.

CHARLIE: So before we get into the details of your brilliant program, I think a really, really good opener for us is to find out, well, we’re almost building a collection and a library amongst all our guests.

CHARLIE: What’s your favorite business or nonfiction book, Pablo?

PABLO: Yeah, so I would say that The Lean Start Up by Eric Rice.

PABLO: This was really inspiring, the first time that I read it.

PABLO: Indeed, I came back a few times when I needed during my career.

PABLO: And here finally is just to highlight the build, measure, and learn, let’s say, methodology that he’s putting all together into a new framework, back into the moment when he launched this methodology.

PABLO: So I think that is even applicable to life, right?

PABLO: Because at the very end, everything needs to be iterating, everything needs to be measured, and then afterwards, everything for that measurement, you will need to build your product with that measurement and learning that you are getting.

PABLO: So I think that it’s really insightful, that book, and I really highly recommended that one for any of the listeners that we have today.

CHARLIE: That’s brilliant.

CHARLIE: I don’t think we’ve had that one before, so that’s a brilliant one to add to our library of recommendations.

CHARLIE: And nice that it stayed with you and you can apply it in life and business.

CHARLIE: Which leads us really nicely on to the question about life, Pablo.

CHARLIE: Tell us a little bit about your loyalty background.

CHARLIE: How have you ended up in this brilliant, brilliant role?

PABLO: Yeah.

PABLO: So first of all, I really love loyalty programs.

PABLO: So even my wife is telling me all the time, oh man, you’re always trying to score points, you’re always trying to reach and redeem, and then afterwards take advantage of the different rewards that we can.

PABLO: So I’m a loyalty lover, let’s say, in that sense.

PABLO: And I had discovered in the very beginning of my career, I just went to college starting into a big four in Deloitte.

PABLO: I started in 2016 and I started as a marketing strategy consultancy.

PABLO: So in this case, the first touch that I have, because our department was really focused on customer strategy, we were helping our clients to really leverage on data, leverage on the customer behavior, understand really good the customer in order to boost their strategies.

PABLO: And one of those projects that we led was for a gas retail sector company, and it was to implement a new loyalty program.

PABLO: So at the very beginning of my career, I just get in touch with this one.

PABLO: And that makes to my, let’s say, love for the loyalty itself, I think that it was a perfect match in that sense.

CHARLIE: That’s a really nice way in actually.

CHARLIE: It’s one of my favorite things when we meet all the different guests.

CHARLIE: Everyone comes into loyalty from such interesting and complementary backgrounds.

CHARLIE: I’ve not had anyone come in from consultancy for a while, so that’s really kind of cool.

CHARLIE: That’s a nice way in.

CHARLIE: We’ve also kind of financed people recently.

CHARLIE: And IT and kind of digital people kind of almost jumping across into consumer loyalty.

CHARLIE: So nice to have that broad perspective to see you start your career.

CHARLIE: That’s give you a really good insight into trends.

CHARLIE: And if you’re a bit of a loyalty lover, I’m guessing you’re keeping an eye on the whole industry.

CHARLIE: What are the big sort of top friends that you’re seeing coming through?

CHARLIE: What are you watching?

PABLO: So I would say that the main one is personalization.

PABLO: This is the main trend that I will highlight.

PABLO: But also, I would go also into that gamification that is always in the spot.

PABLO: That could be really, really close to that personalization approach.

PABLO: And also, for sure, AI is one of the things that I think that we should be more aware about in the upcoming months.

PABLO: If we need to go a bit more detail, the part of personalization, I would split it in two, make different the way.

PABLO: So first of all, personalization could be adapting content depending on the customer profile.

PABLO: So this is one of the things.

PABLO: And it can be by offering different products, by experience-oriented, even depending on the relation that the customer is having with the company.

PABLO: So here, for sure, the data is the key.

PABLO: And the second point for personalization, I would say that is the timing also on the channel that you are using for contacting your customers.

PABLO: So in that sense, those two factors for personalization, I think, that are really relevant and also are going to help to find afterwards the sweet spot between annoying your customer with a lot of contacts and also maintaining them in the top of mind.

PABLO: That is what we want in order to engage with them.

PABLO: So at the very end, I would say that personalization is the one that I would say that is the most highlightable.

PABLO: And then afterwards, to keep an eye for short ramification and AI.

CHARLIE: And are there any programs that you are looking at at the moment going, oh my god, I wish I could do that?

CHARLIE: Because I think those three work so closely together.

CHARLIE: I think Before a Beauty Insider is probably one of the ones that I’ve been watching recently and just thinking, oh my goodness, the way they’re bringing that all together is really kind of best in class.

CHARLIE: They’ve brought some brilliant examples within the program.

CHARLIE: Anyone you’re looking at, anyone you’re thinking, oh, they’ve got it, or is it more the theoretical stuff that you’re enjoying?

PABLO: So the part of it is more theoretical because I’m really data-oriented in that approach.

PABLO: So I really love theory and what it’s about and what is around AD testing and so on.

PABLO: I really link to the Lean Start Up that I was before pitching.

PABLO: But in terms of communication, for example, I really enjoy how Duolingo is currently doing their experience in the application.

PABLO: So it is not really loyalty, I would say, but it’s engagement at the very end.

PABLO: That is one of the things that we should highlight also.

PABLO: In terms of loyalty and what we are looking for.

PABLO: So the way that they are engaging with the customers, once they are landing in the app, the onboarding is amazing, really easy to do.

PABLO: Then after, it is like a no-brainer that onboarding, honestly.

PABLO: Then afterwards, you go into the level that you’re supposed to be there, and you are really easily going milestone by milestone, getting badges and so on.

PABLO: So I think that we have a lot of learning stuff on the pure players as Duolingo, because sometimes retailers and going, let’s say, further on our experience in terms of loyalty is really difficult because we are not pure players and we need to know it.

PABLO: But at least we can have them as a reference, I think.

PABLO: So yeah, I would say that that one could be one of the examples that I’m looking at.

CHARLIE: Yeah, I think that’s a brilliant example.

CHARLIE: It came up actually at the Loyalty Summit in Stockholm quite a lot, because I think people were thinking about gamification initially as games that people were going to play and slightly gamified experiences.

CHARLIE: Then a lot of people were actually talking about what could we learn from proper gaming platforms, but also the engagement process like Duolingo.

CHARLIE: Everyone was really talking about the streaks.

CHARLIE: That was the thing.

CHARLIE: They were like, how do we actually bring streaks into loyalty?

CHARLIE: A couple of programs stood up on stage and said they were actually looking at it now.

CHARLIE: So I’m really looking forward to seeing that explode in loyalty over the next 12 to 24 months.

CHARLIE: It always takes us a while to follow in.

CHARLIE: What about your program?

CHARLIE: We’ve talked about trends and we’ve talked about your background and getting into it, but it’s such a cool program and it’s been through such a period of change recently.

CHARLIE: I’m sure our listeners would love to hear about the value proposition, about how the mechanic works.

CHARLIE: So tell us all about it.

CHARLIE: Not everyone will probably know it as well.

PABLO: That’s a good one, Charlie.

PABLO: So the first thing is that we go with the motto of Decathlon.

PABLO: Here the motto of Decathlon is move the people through the wonders of sports.

PABLO: And we from the membership program, we are as a team, I mean, we are one of the levers for that, move the people through the wonders of sports.

PABLO: And we have as a mission of the membership program to cultivate customer relationships and loyalty and trying to do it at a scale.

PABLO: And afterwards, what we want to do with that is to empower our members to fully embrace the wonders of the sports that we were talking about after.

PABLO: We want to do that in order to push the customers to maintain an active and a healthy lifestyle and for sure having fun at the same time.

PABLO: So we are trying to put that mission that we have as a project, as a team, into a product, into an experience to the customer.

PABLO: So that is what it is all about.

PABLO: It is like a kind of our beacon of light when we need to look at something in terms of value proposition and going more into the meat, our main value proposition, it is linked to the main goal of the program.

PABLO: Because at the end, at the very beginning, what we want to give is another splitted experiences in different locations.

PABLO: But we wanted to at the same time give the enough flexibility to the countries and to the markets in order to fit the value proposition with the customer needs.

PABLO: Because we know that we can have, let’s say, imagine that we cascade a value proposition from United, the team that I belong to, into the markets.

PABLO: That for sure is not going to work because we need that local flavor that is going to, for sure, being able to connect with the customers in different markets.

PABLO: So that is the first point.

PABLO: Our value proposition is a global one.

PABLO: So we deliver a digital product from a United perspective, and we act as enablers for the markets in order to comply with the needs that different customers have in the market.

PABLO: Then afterwards, we do it through three different pillars in this case.

PABLO: So the first one is that customers can collect points.

PABLO: So our program is based on points, and they can do it by purchasing, sharing a video, and also by doing social interactions and, for example, moving.

PABLO: So it depends also on the country, as I was saying before, to really implement more and more the features that we are enabling.

PABLO: But in the case of the moving one, it is a really interesting one because we are connecting that lifestyle that we were talking about before into the program at the same time.

PABLO: So that is how, at the very beginning, that first part, that first pillar is working.

PABLO: That is the earning part.

CHARLIE: It’s really nice to see that flexibility as well and that opportunity for the markets to take ownership of how they execute it within their own marketing framework.

CHARLIE: That’s really important, isn’t it?

CHARLIE: Rather than a centrally dictated, this is how you do it, one size fits all approach.

CHARLIE: That’s the first pillar, what’s two and three?

PABLO: Exactly.

PABLO: That flexibility also isn’t just for the collection of the points, but also for the rewards, so for the burning side of things.

PABLO: Here, all the countries, we are saying that they need to have their own voucher scheme.

PABLO: The voucher scheme means that when you are earning points, you can exchange it by money.

PABLO: That is the first one.

PABLO: When we are asking to the customers, most of the markets and all of the markets, in 85, 90 percent of the times, they want discounts.

PABLO: They want benefits in order to make that afterwards into the purchase.

PABLO: So that is the first thing that we will include into the rewards.

PABLO: But we do not want to stop there.

PABLO: We want to go further.

PABLO: We want to offer, and little by little, the countries are including partner offers.

PABLO: So partners, when we talk about partners, it’s always linked to the world of sports.

PABLO: So it could be free tickets for a paddle tournament that they are having in the Premier Paddle.

PABLO: Even we can talk about a lucky draw for some entrance, for some tickets again, for the Champions League or Europa League that currently is our partner within Decathlon.

PABLO: So we are trying to offer, not just to stick on the transactional and normal transactional program, but going a bit beyond and going more into experiential mode and going more into the engagement zone, let’s say.

PABLO: Because we know that the entry part, the entry level could be discounts, but then afterwards, there is something else.

PABLO: And then afterwards, you need to develop your customer in a different way.

PABLO: So that is one of the streams, and one of the, let’s say, drivers that we are trying to boost more, that is the partners.

CHARLIE: Nice.

CHARLIE: That’s great to see it in both sides, actually, in that earn and burn, and then creating that virtuous circle.

CHARLIE: Because presumably, the more they do, the more they move, the more they get inspired, the more they keep going.

CHARLIE: So that’s brilliant to see.

PABLO: Indeed.

PABLO: And the third one, it would be, and we really like to separate it, and it’s our kind of way of gamificating the experience, because we have the challenges.

PABLO: And when we talk about challenges, is that every time that you can connect your, first of all, you can connect your device with the Decathlon Hub, that means that afterwards, you are going to collect the points with that, okay?

PABLO: So that is a moving side of things that we were talking about.

PABLO: But also, we have the challenges that are popping up from time to time, those challenges.

PABLO: Imagine that, for example, it is happening in the London Marathon, that it was really previously done, I think that it was the 27th of April, right?

PABLO: So 27th of April, so here, the UK market on Decathlon, they can think about a plan, a specific plan, based on challenges, and thanks to the membership, they can win some points, and afterwards, those points would be converted into something else in order to be prepared for that London Marathon.

PABLO: So at the very end, that third pillar is really focused on engaging with customers and knowing them better.

PABLO: Because as far as the customer is enrolling the challenge and is finalizing the challenge, we already know that that customer is really eager, let’s say, to run in this case.

PABLO: So we are getting at the very end more data from that customer, and we can afterwards personalize more of the experience.

PABLO: So it’s like a kind of virtual circle that we are trying to build within the program in order to also, at the very end, boost our business.

PABLO: That is what we want.

CHARLIE: That’s really nice.

CHARLIE: And to see that insight coming through as well, I think that’s increasingly what my guests are talking about.

CHARLIE: And actually what the industry is talking about is the loyalty program’s ability to give you that kind of insight in a genuine way, because then you can reward that behavior.

CHARLIE: Yeah, the London Marathon was hot this year, so I don’t think the times were as good as they were hoping.

CHARLIE: There were lots of people cooking as they were charging about the city.

CHARLIE: So that’s very cool.

CHARLIE: Yeah, that must have been quite amazing.

CHARLIE: I wonder how many people took part.

CHARLIE: You’ll have to follow up listeners with questions and come to Pablo via LinkedIn and stuff, so that you could ask him how many people actually took part and how the Decathlon or not showed that.

CHARLIE: I mean, it’s such a brilliant program, and those are three really, really great pillars and really nice to see that breadth.

CHARLIE: I’m sure running a program of this size across this many markets comes with some challenges though.

CHARLIE: It’s probably not all easy, not all easy going, much like running the London Marathon.

CHARLIE: What are the biggest challenges you faced?

CHARLIE: And how have you overcome those?

PABLO: Well, I think that the biggest one was to really be scalable because at the very end, you need to make something, you need to build a value proposition, a product that is able to scale to among different countries with different customer behaviors, with different also objectives even inside because potentially the UK wants to go into more acquisition mode.

PABLO: But we know that France, the penetration of Decathlon in France is really high because for sure we are French.

PABLO: So at the very end, it is not the same to go to approach to one market to another.

PABLO: So I would say that the challenge of really preparing a scalable go-to-market of the product was the biggest one.

PABLO: So here, a couple of stuff that I can share, it was key for us to make a proper stakeholder mapping.

PABLO: So first of all, who was going to be our main, let’s say, point of contact of the different markets, understanding their needs.

PABLO: In this case, it was the loyalty leaders and the loyalty managers in the markets.

PABLO: So this was one of the keys to understand their needs, understand how they were going to use the program, what were their objectives.

PABLO: And here, for example, in Hungary and UK, which were the very first two markets that we landed in a couple of years ago, we got a lot of learning from those requirements.

PABLO: So that stakeholder mapping was key, and also the preparation of the material in an scalable way.

PABLO: Understandable, that was a fitting with all the organizations, and that for sure was going to be, let’s say, could be replicable and also enriched while we were deploying the markets.

PABLO: Because again, this is dynamic.

PABLO: We were just learning since the very moment that we were, since the very first moment that we were like deploying one of the countries.

PABLO: So that, let’s say, challenge of making the material also scalable and dynamic was really tough.

PABLO: But we made it 40, more than 40 countries until today in two years and a half.

PABLO: So I would say that, yeah, it was a challenge, but at the end, the suffer during those months was paid off, I think.

CHARLIE: I bet.

CHARLIE: And I imagine you saw a very different kind of picture in UK versus Hungary.

CHARLIE: Amanda, we’ve just published our Understanding Loyalty in Europe study, and they’re two very different markets.

CHARLIE: I’m guessing they’re very different in the Decathlon mindset as well as a Loyalty market mindset.

CHARLIE: That must have been great to start with too, but to get to 40 in under two years, I think that might be one of the fastest rollouts I’ve seen.

CHARLIE: I can only imagine there’s probably not been much sleeping.

PABLO: Not at all.

PABLO: And even on top of the scalability of the materials, one of the things that we were doing also was preparing the, helping the countries to really prepare the business for the landing of a Loyalty program.

PABLO: Because it is not always easy and most of the people that potentially is listening to the knows it, but there is a piano behind.

PABLO: There is a liability of the points behind.

PABLO: There is something that potentially your stakeholders are not knowing, so you need to prepare those stakeholders in order to get used to this kind of new stuff that they are going to treat.

PABLO: So we also prepare some material, we also prepare some training sessions and also some training videos in order to make them, to make and to ensure that we were going with a product, but afterwards that the impact was going to be the correct one.

PABLO: Because if business-wise the countries were not ready, that was going to be for sure a good rollout of the program.

CHARLIE: It touches so many teams, doesn’t it?

CHARLIE: Even in just that description, you’ve talked about finance, you’ve talked about IT, marketing, operations.

CHARLIE: It really does touch the whole team.

CHARLIE: So yeah, I don’t envy you that.

CHARLIE: 40 markets in two years.

CHARLIE: Wow.

CHARLIE: I’m guessing that came with a lot of lessons.

CHARLIE: But what were your sort of one or two most important lessons?

PABLO: So I think that the lessons, and maybe I’m being a bit repetitive, but that the things are and the situations can change while you are advancing in a certain project.

PABLO: So that you need to have that flexibility in order to fight out of those situations.

PABLO: And you do not need to be afraid to really see and to really make a retrospective and to look at what you can improve.

PABLO: So with an open heart, let’s say, okay, we should be better here.

PABLO: We are crushing it in this moment and because we communicate it this way.

PABLO: So you need to make those retrospectives really clean and really staying in the truth, I think.

PABLO: So that is one of the one of the main lessons and also to have clear KPIs on what do you want to achieve with each of each of the rollouts.

PABLO: I think that is key because afterwards you are going to be able to face into the to look at into the mirror and to say if you have accomplished or not accomplished the objective that you have.

PABLO: So I would say that that was really helpful since the very beginning.

PABLO: And I will replicate it every time that I’m on a project, not just a Loyalty one, but in another in another situations.

PABLO: I would say that to have really clear OKRs, clear KPIs to look at a bit more frequently.

PABLO: I would say that those might be the main two takeaways that I would that I would highlight.

CHARLIE: Yeah, and nice there that if you’ve got those clear KPIs and you can celebrate the successes across the business as well, can’t you?

CHARLIE: But you can also, as you say, be really open and honest about where you haven’t hit in and figuring out why.

CHARLIE: And we’ve certainly seen that as a trend within the loyalty industry as well.

CHARLIE: People learning as much and talking much more openly about where they haven’t hit things as where they have.

CHARLIE: What about the importance of the program?

CHARLIE: You know, it’s fairly new in the world of loyalty.

CHARLIE: You know, a lot of programs have been around for 25, 30 years and yours, whilst massive, is still kind of what we probably think of as an infant.

CHARLIE: But how important is it to Decathlon?

CHARLIE: Or how important is it becoming?

PABLO: So I think that this is going to become really important because of the fact that we are in a moment that the customers are changing the way that they are purchasing.

PABLO: They are more digital, they are trying to go more into the app channels and so on.

PABLO: So that is meaning also that the behavior of the customers is changing.

PABLO: I think that we need to adapt to that and to that rhythm, because one of the things is just adapting to the channels, but also in the way of the things and the technologies advancing is really important.

PABLO: One of the key topics here is the data as well.

PABLO: So I think that for the company is going to get more and more relevant in order to know better our customers.

PABLO: So I would say that this is the core and how we are also selling this internally because you know that we as United, we need to sell it also internally somehow.

PABLO: So this is the first thing that I will highlight.

PABLO: Also for sure, we are seeing some value, some other value since the last two years.

PABLO: We saw that, for example, the program was really helpful in some of the markets.

PABLO: To really push for the next very first purchase to the customer.

PABLO: So it is not just about gathering data.

PABLO: Sometimes you cannot, let’s say, see the value behind the data, put a number, that at the end the finance guys is what they want to see.

PABLO: But afterwards, if we can say that because of the burn of the points, there is one extra purchase that is more, let’s say more understandable also by everyone and it is much more impactful.

PABLO: And the clearness of how the impact on the business is being, it’s amazing.

PABLO: So we have seen that for burning one point, we already know the very first point that the customers are making one additional purchase.

PABLO: It changed between the market, but more or less is the trend.

PABLO: So I think that even though we need to think more on a theoretical way at the very beginning, that is more, okay, it’s going to help us within the data, we are seeing more and more the impact and the value in the business.

PABLO: So I think that is going to become more and more important.

CHARLIE: Yeah, and that continued upward traction is something that a lot of programs see as well, because you’ll also, as it develops, unlock new ways to grow value.

CHARLIE: I’m now slightly scared because I’m thinking, gosh, if I start burning the points as regularly as I start shopping in Decathlon, with my two teenage boys and the amount of Decathlon kit we’ve got in the house, it’s going to get quite concerning.

CHARLIE: I’m going to need to build another shed or something along those lines.

CHARLIE: We’ve talked a bit about APIs and success factors.

CHARLIE: How do you measure them?

CHARLIE: I know you can’t share all of them, because obviously, it’s commercially sensitive.

CHARLIE: But what are the main KPIs that you have for the program?

PABLO: First of all, I would really love to divide them.

PABLO: Because at the very end, I think that is key and relevant for the different teams that are involved into the program.

PABLO: You mentioned it before, a lot of different connected teams working together, finance, even legal is there, also marketing, also the retail itself.

PABLO: So I really like to make three different groups of KPIs.

PABLO: So the first one is at customer level.

PABLO: On a customer level, we take a look at the new accounts for sure, that we are creating thanks to the Loyalty program.

PABLO: So this is one of the main KPIs.

PABLO: Also, the customer upgrade, downgrade, meaning if they are, because we have a segmentation on Decathlon, and knowing if they are behaving differently because of the membership program is one of the things that we want to really track.

PABLO: Also, the ARPU, that is the annual revenue per user that we are getting, that is really close to the customer lifetime value afterwards, depending on the time that the customer is coming.

PABLO: But for us, it’s really key, the ARPU, because at the end, if you can change the ARPU, the behavior within one year of a customer, it is because you are making an impact on the membership.

PABLO: And finally, the one that we are at a customer level, it is the transaction identification rate.

PABLO: What means transaction identification rate?

PABLO: That I as a customer or you, Charlie, as a customer, go into a store and you identify yourself into the casio.

PABLO: So for this, that could be a mix between, let’s say, financial one and customer one, but it’s more close to the customer behavior, I would say.

PABLO: I think that those four are the very first group of KPI that we are trying to take a look.

CHARLIE: Nice.

CHARLIE: And it’s really nice to see that kind of that clear focus as well and that breadth of thinking about where the money is coming from.

PABLO: Yeah.

PABLO: So if we talk about the second one, the second one is more focused on Loyalty KPI.

PABLO: For sure, Loyalty KPI is, in our case, as we are a point-based system, and we have the points behind, the burn rate of the points is going to be one of them.

PABLO: So we know that a healthy burn rate is close to 45-50 percent in order not to have a lot of liability.

CHARLIE: Gosh, that’s high.

CHARLIE: Yeah.

PABLO: Yeah, exactly.

PABLO: So it is not our average, it’s what we are pointing to.

PABLO: And we are saying to the markets that that should be our, let’s say, again, beacon of light.

PABLO: Also, ready merge rate, how many customers are really using the program?

PABLO: Because at the end, if you are taking a look just at the point level, you are not taking a look at how many customers are really using it.

PABLO: So we want to really know how many users and how many customers are burning at least one point within a year.

PABLO: And then the third one might be the rewards usage.

PABLO: So because of the fact that a customer on our program is working, you redeem the points in the platform, and then afterwards you get the reward that you already are readying for, the points, and then you need to use that reward.

PABLO: So at the very end, it is behaving like a funnel.

PABLO: You win the points, then afterwards you redeem it, and then afterwards you use the reward.

PABLO: So it could be kind of a conversion funnel, loyalty way to see the things.

PABLO: So that might be the second group of KPIs for sure.

PABLO: And going into the last one, it is what we, I mean, country leaders, CIOs, financial guys want to really see the impact on.

PABLO: That is a turnover generated with the rewards that we had just given to the customer.

PABLO: The net margin of the purchases that they for sure have been using the vouchers in order to go into that engagement mode.

PABLO: And then afterwards the ROI of the program.

PABLO: So, I would say that those three are the main ones in terms of finance and together with the other two groups, I would say that at least in a really high level, and afterwards we can talk about the L2s, but in a really high level, the program could be tracked.

PABLO: That’s brilliant.

CHARLIE: And now all I know, all our listeners are now dying to hear the actuals, but don’t worry, we won’t ask you the actuals because we know, but we’re hoping it’s going well.

CHARLIE: And if you’re rolling out to 40 markets and keeping going, that’s a really good sign, listeners, that it’s really, really working.

CHARLIE: We’ve talked a lot about stakeholders.

CHARLIE: You’ve said that’s one of your key, one of your key important lessons from the program.

CHARLIE: How on earth do you communicate internally and manage all those markets and all those internal stakeholders across all those departments about what you’re doing and what the priorities are?

CHARLIE: How on earth do you even begin to do that?

PABLO: So that’s a really good one, Charlie, because in Decathlon, we have a team inside digital that is product activation.

PABLO: So I am part of that product activation team and I am a product marketing manager for the membership program.

PABLO: And each of the domains is having one product marketing manager, let’s say, and one of the aims of that role is really communicating internally about the product itself.

PABLO: In this case, it’s the loyalty program on my side.

PABLO: And here we are using different tools.

PABLO: And as we have a lot of markets, we need to be relevant while we are communicating, because at the moment if you are communicating and you are not being relevant in the time that you are boxing for that communication, the countries are not going to be interested in that.

PABLO: Since our markets as stakeholders are not going to be interested.

PABLO: So we are using one session that is called the Feature Showcase, where we are trying to push for best practices in different markets, also the new features that the countries can really leverage on the product, that this has really been helpful for the markets.

PABLO: Then we used to go also into the digital newsletters.

PABLO: So there is one newsletter shared across the company, that sometimes we are there every time that we have something relevant to share.

PABLO: So a big deployment or even a big use case that brings a lot of new customers.

PABLO: So every time that we have something to communicate in terms of successes, we are going also into that digital newsletter.

PABLO: And also one of the aims and one of the things that we are trying to have is mostly reviews with key countries.

PABLO: We have also a team that we call normally in B2B and in SaaS company, normally it is called Customer Success Manager.

PABLO: In our case, we call it MSM, that is Market Success Manager, because at the very end our clients are the markets.

PABLO: So we try to have really frequent and recurrent meetings with them in order to really communicate which are the new stuff that they can leverage on, which are their main concerns, gather some feedback that for us is completely key in order to prepare the next communications and the next product iterations.

PABLO: So at the very end is to really knowing well your stakeholders, knowing which material and which content is going to be relevant, and for sure preparing a really good session with them.

PABLO: Because if you are catchy with the message, if you are really clear with what you want to really achieve, what you are really pitching, and the value that it has behind, I think that that is going to be for sure relevant for them, and you are going to be helping them at the very end.

CHARLIE: That’s really nice.

CHARLIE: I interviewed IKEA Family recently, and they have this lovely concept that I’ve talked about quite a bit.

CHARLIE: I think we talked about it, because it’s dealing with pride, and they love it when one country does something really brilliant, and then another market kind of looks at it and goes, oh, actually, we’re going to do that.

CHARLIE: And sort of pops it across.

CHARLIE: Are you seeing that with your markets?

CHARLIE: Are they starting to learn from each other and talk to each other independently, or is it all still coming through these sort of central channels?

PABLO: For sure.

PABLO: And one of the things that we really like is that it’s not just the material markets in terms of loyalty that are kind of teaching the smaller countries.

PABLO: It’s also the other way around.

PABLO: So the material countries are learning from the lower, let’s say, the smaller countries.

PABLO: And the way that they are sharing the things is very interesting, even having less resources, even having less focus or less team behind.

PABLO: They are sometimes bringing some innovative ways of working that the material markets also can leverage.

PABLO: So for sure, that community is established internally and they are sharing best practices between each other.

CHARLIE: That’s brilliant.

CHARLIE: We’ve seen that actually in quite a lot of the big global programs that we get on the show.

CHARLIE: I also quite like it when you hear the cautionary tale as well.

CHARLIE: Not everyone learns from the successes.

CHARLIE: There’s a few catastrophes as well that have really kind of inspired and then no one learns fast unless something’s gone wrong.

CHARLIE: What about that broader loyalty industry?

CHARLIE: Because I know, as you said, you’re a loyalty lover.

CHARLIE: You’re always looking at programs in your own market.

CHARLIE: What kind of resources would you recommend our listeners sort of look to, to learn and to keep ahead of the latest and greatest news?

PABLO: So first of all, it can be, it can sound like really easy to do, but I have an alert in Google that that is a retail loyalty update.

PABLO: So every time that there is a retail loyalty update, I am getting a bunch of news every week that I am just reading and going around, so that I can really be, let’s say aware of what is happening into the market, not just about the trends, but also in terms of what the market is trying to move ahead and go in a better sense.

PABLO: So that may be the first one in terms of what the industry is already going.

PABLO: Then afterwards, there are some strong reports that I’ve been launched every year that I’m taking a look at.

PABLO: So for example, is the Untauble one.

PABLO: I really like it.

PABLO: Open Loyalty is also interesting.

PABLO: GoMark for sure is also grabbing some interesting stuff.

PABLO: I know that, for example, Mando is also doing some things, and I know he’ll be at the same time.

PABLO: Anyway, I think that all those big players, Gardner, also BCG, also Forbes, sometimes they are bringing some really interesting material.

PABLO: So I’m trying to not just stick into a few, but trying to really go beyond.

PABLO: Yeah, let’s try to research a bit into everything.

PABLO: And it’s really interesting because you are funding, sometimes, some things that you can replicate into your market, and that is nothing in the common, let’s say, industry players and the ones that you are trying to look at all the time.

CHARLIE: And it’s so nice how all of those reports have different focuses as well.

CHARLIE: And you’re so lucky in a global program because you’ve got the opportunity to look at all those different reports and then pick all the best bits.

CHARLIE: I had a good top tip from somebody at a conference recently, which was once every fortnight, this person who should remain nameless, uses AI to do a summary of all the big reports and then asks for recommendations from the AI for the program.

CHARLIE: Now, it’s not always a good recommendation, but it is really interesting, particularly if you ask for source material.

CHARLIE: They found some really good shortcuts by doing it that way.

CHARLIE: So it’s worth having a play.

PABLO: But then afterwards, even that is the way I think that is going to change the scope also.

PABLO: The AI, you need to know exactly how to leverage it.

PABLO: For sure, it is not going to give you always the perfect answer.

PABLO: But at the end, what you are going to do is to have an overview that is fast.

PABLO: And when there is a lot of information, I think that is a really good tool to use for sure.

CHARLIE: Yeah, we’re seeing some really interesting developments with it.

CHARLIE: It’s less good if you ask it to represent it pictorially, by the way.

CHARLIE: I do thoroughly recommend that if you need a giggle on a Friday afternoon, ask it to summarize a Loyalty Report in pictures.

CHARLIE: It’s highly entertaining.

CHARLIE: Have you seen any, we’re talking a lot about what’s out there in Newstack.

CHARLIE: Have you seen any really good ideas or innovations recently, either that you’re doing or that others are doing, anything that really stands out?

PABLO: So I’m hearing more and more the concept of local.

PABLO: I really liked it because if you think about it, logically, it makes the total sense.

PABLO: Because you are concerned about the customer needs, and you are at the same time trying to be the more scalable that you can.

PABLO: So I really like this model.

PABLO: I think that the global model is a complete winner for companies because of the product scalability and also the execution flexibility that we were talking about.

PABLO: So I would really highlight, and I’m hearing more and more about this concept of global, glad to know that we already kind of implemented.

PABLO: And so that was quite fun when I read it.

PABLO: And on top of that, it may be not that innovative, but the importance of involving the markets on big projects and not just going and cascading the information, like it kind of really took down.

PABLO: I think that is in terms of managing of the success of the programs is really important.

PABLO: And I have seen that in the last nine years of career, every time that we were in like a huge project, I think that it was really important to kind of co-create, having a co-creation model together with your stakeholders.

PABLO: Because at the end, it is going to not just the results, but also the relation and the way of working.

PABLO: It is going to be more enjoyable.

PABLO: It is going to be more smooth.

PABLO: So that co-creation mode and to go together and to be together, I think that to do your stakeholders, I think that is key for the success of the, let’s say of the programs, projects or whatever we have in hand.

CHARLIE: I completely agree.

CHARLIE: Obviously, we’re really privileged to talk to lots of programs.

CHARLIE: I work in an agency where we get to work across lots of sectors.

CHARLIE: We used to call it freedom in a framework, but you get such better results, but you also get such better internal stakeholder engagement and ownership when you do it that way.

CHARLIE: I’m a big fan of, great ideas can come from anywhere and everywhere.

CHARLIE: My favorite is when one of the smaller, more innovative, perhaps a little bit riskier markets with a smaller team does something really crazy, and then the big mature loyalty markets then pick it up afterwards.

CHARLIE: I’m sure our listeners would agree.

PABLO: For sure.

PABLO: Last but not least, I think Charlie, that also aligning the project or the program that you are trying to launch, in this case, our loyalty program with the company values, it’s for sure key.

PABLO: We talked about the move the people who are doing the software sports, that is the motto.

PABLO: But then our values is also our vitality, responsibility, generosity and authenticity.

PABLO: I think that we are bringing those four values with the program.

PABLO: Really connect the values of the company, not just of the program itself, but the values of the company with what you are delivering to the customers and that they can feel it and perceive it, is one of the keys also for success, I think.

CHARLIE: Yeah, I think that’s really nice actually.

CHARLIE: As the program develops, it might be really interesting as well, although I’m sure you are, to look at the attitudinal ways you can measure and track that and then see how you’re supporting that brand perception as well.

CHARLIE: There’s a lovely quote from Tesco Clubcard about the program must always be in service of the master brand.

CHARLIE: And I think that’s a really nice kind of way of summarizing what you were talking about there.

CHARLIE: I think maybe it’s a little bit more now rather than in service of maybe it’s actually kind of support and enhance as well.

CHARLIE: It’s a really, it’s a brilliant program listeners, go check it out.

CHARLIE: So I’m sure you’re going to get some questions.

CHARLIE: I’m sure you’re probably going to get some partner requests as well as a consequence of being on here, but it’s been brilliant to learn more about the program.

CHARLIE: If our listeners or watchers would like to get in touch with you, what’s the best way?

PABLO: So I would say that LinkedIn is a really good channel.

PABLO: I think that almost all of them are going to have it.

PABLO: So perfectly you can contact me through there.

PABLO: And yeah, I think that that is the main channel that I would…

PABLO: Because if we talk about the emails, always we are having a bunch of emails all the time.

PABLO: So LinkedIn is going to be, I think, a bit more clean in that sense.

CHARLIE: I completely agree.

CHARLIE: And what we’ll do is we’ll pop your LinkedIn profile in the show notes along with the kind of program overview and all those details as well.

CHARLIE: So thank you, Pablo.

CHARLIE: That’s been a brilliant interview and so interesting to learn.

CHARLIE: It’s such an awesome program.

CHARLIE: Thank you so much for being a guest on our show.

PABLO: No, many thanks, Charlie.

PABLO: And thanks for the opportunity.

PABLO: I think that it was really good for also for Decathlon to be here.

PABLO: So thanks for the invite.

CHARLIE: Wonderful.