Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m Paula Thomas, the Founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and also now Loyalty TV.
Today’s episode is hosted by Carly Neubauer, Co-founder and Director of Elevate Loyalty and Pay2Elevate, an Australian based company specializing in loyalty and incentive services, global rewards, and digital payment technology.
If you work in loyalty marketing, you can watch our latest video interviews every Thursday on www.loyalty.tv. And of course, you can also listen to Let’s Talk Loyalty every Tuesday, every Wednesday, and every Thursday to learn the latest ideas from loyalty experts around the world.
This show is brought to you by Comarch, a multi-country leader in customer engagement tools that help you forge meaningful connections and boost profits, leveraging over 10 years of experience in utilizing AI technology. From immersive loyalty programs to captivating marketing campaigns, Comarch helps you deliver personalized experiences across every touchpoint, gather valuable insights, understand customer behavior and watch your brand recognition soar.
Comarch, where innovation meets customer satisfaction. To learn more, visit comarch.com.
Carly: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. My name is Carly Neubauer and I’m the Co-founder and Director of Elevate Loyalty and Pay to Elevate, an incentives and loyalty services company specializing in global rewards and digital payment technology. Today, I’m talking to Ria Peters, loyalty product manager at Genesis Energy in New Zealand, the recent winner of the Asia Pacific Loyalty Awards for Best Overall Loyalty Program across Telco, energy and utilities.
Thank you for joining me, Ria. And I’m looking forward to discussing not only PowerShout, but also your loyalty career journey. Welcome.
Ria: Thanks so much for having me, Carly. I’m excited to have a chat today.
Carly: Fantastic. So as you probably know, we always start with the very famous question, which is your favorite loyalty program? Talk to us about that.
Ria: I’d love to talk about something a bit more unique or uncommon, but I’m going to be a little bit tried and true. So my favorite loyalty program is actually with my banking provider ASB here in New Zealand. And I think the thing that I, there’s a couple of things that I really like about that program.
Number one would be that it’s really easy to incorporate into my life. From, you know, how I actually use my credit card to gain points, to redeeming it. I have so much variability and flexibility. They have lots of partner outlets and options which I find really useful. And I think one thing that really gets me with any good loyalty program is just the emotional connection that you, that, that it fosters. So, which might sound weird coming from a bank’s loyalty program.
But for me, like I recently used some, my loyalty points at a, the equivalent of like bunnings might attend here in New Zealand and whenever I look at my garden, my back garden, I kind of connect that with, hey, I use my loyalty points to redeem you know, all of this awesome stuff that I has gone into yeah, planting my back garden. And so I think that’s a really awesome emotional connection that I have now through that loyalty program. Like I said, sounds a bit lame.
Carly: No.
Ria: But I think ultimately, I think ultimately a good loyalty program is, is simple and easy to weave into, into your life. a customer’s kind of everyday life. And yeah, creates that emotional connection. And ASB does that for me all the time. Cause I’m definitely a shopaholic as well. So, you know, that’s very easy to weave into my life.
Carly: This is sort of the ultimate that I think a lot of loyalty programs would be aiming for is that emotional connection. So your example, your example is fabulous around bringing that into what you look at and can see in your daily life as well. And it reminds you of your banking program. Anything else you’ve used your points for or anything else that you have around your home?
Ria: So I’ve also used it on different like artwork at home as well. So that’s a nice, again, when you kind of, you know, a house isn’t a home until you’ve furnished it and made it your own. And so I think that’s another really good example of yeah, creating that emotional connection. And then I also use it to fund some of my hobbies and things as well. So, yeah, it’s a, it’s a great way to create that emotional connection for sure.
Carly: Absolutely. And what, tell us a little bit about the spend and earn thresholds.
Ria: Oh, good question. So the way that it works is there’s different kinds of different kinds of credit cards that you can have. So if you have the more basic kind, you earn one true reward dollar which is the currency they have for every $150 that you spend or if you have a platinum credit card, you get $1 sorry, one true reward for every a hundred dollars that you spend.
But I know there was a little bit of controversy a little while ago that ASB were looking to change those thresholds that was sometime last year, I think, and they got some really strong customer feedback about the change and then quickly reverted it back.
Carly: Yeah, that’s always a challenge if you’re changing the currency dynamic for sure. So thank you for telling us about your favorite program and why. That’s such a great example using the emotional connection and that strong loyalty connection to your everyday life as well.
Let’s talk a bit about you and your background and some of your early days. How did you find yourself in this loyalty world?
Ria: That’s a great question, Carly. So ultimately, it came down to different strategic initiatives like, you know, we have this product set, which markets can we enter? Or it would be maybe the inverse of that, where it’s like, we’re trying to enter this market, what products should we enter that market with? Or we’re looking at adjacent markets, like a new product line what do you think we should explore and kind of everything in between which was really interesting to me. And unfortunately, so that was a global company that had a very small presence in New Zealand. And unfortunately I was the last person standing in the New Zealand office. So, you know, I had the opportunity to relocate, but it didn’t quite work out. Just you know, from a timing and a life perspective, as you know, sometimes it does. And so I I, explored my next opportunity and that ended up at Genesis, which was really exciting. I had never been part of the energy industry before.
So kind of, again, adjacent for me from visionary science to the energy industry, which is not something that I foresaw myself becoming enamored with, being honest. But I started in the corporate strategy team there and again, kind of behaved a bit more like an internal consultant. So again looking at, you know, different adjacent markets that Genesis might want to enter from both a wholesale perspective.
So, in New Zealand, you know, we looked at LNG, for example, so liquefied natural gas, that’s something that’s really big in Australia. And we were looking at maybe should we import that kind of stuff for energy security supply. And carbon capture and storage, like lots of really cool technologies. And then on the retail side, you know, dealing with customers, do we into broadband? Do we into insurance and that kind of stuff.
But what’s really what I found in that role was that, you know, I learned a lot about the energy industry and the energy market, but I didn’t actually know much about Genesis itself. And so I moved into the retail team and I was, um, part of the strategy team and within the retail business unit and so there I learned about customers for the first time, which was, really exciting and really, I think sparked something in me. And so I really loved the idea of, you know, we’re delivering something for customers and energy, you know, energy, I believe has kind of come to the point where it’s a basic human rights especially in lots of countries around the world. And so there, you know, there is a really interesting dynamic at play, at play when you’re in a retail market trying to make a profit, but then also you’ve got yeah, the, the fact that it’s a fundamental kind of human right at play, which I thought was really interesting.
And then, of course, I was also introduced to our loyalty program, Power Shout which we will talk about more shortly, I’m sure.
And so getting, getting a view on, you know, retail a retail utilities market and my introduction to customers and learning about the different kinds of things that we do as an energy retailer. So I had been in strategy for, you know, quite some time up to that point. And it kind of had a bit of self reflection and was kind of like, you know what, I do love strategy, but I think it’s time for me to actually deliver something for someone instead of just, you know, telling other people, Hey, well, you should do this thing.
So, I was really fortunate to get a position at Genesis, which is where I am now as a product manager which is really cool. So a really cool, unique blend between strategy, but you know, delivering things for customers, which is the direction that I really wanted to go.
And so, going right back to your initial question I, like I said, I ended up in loyalty kind of by accident. So the product, one of the products that I manage is Genesis’s, residential customer loyalty program called Power Shout which is really phenomenal. And so it’s a program that gives customers free hours of power. So we’re the way that Genesis positions their free hours of power is more as a currency. So lots and in common with existing loyalty programs. But unlike other free power offerings in the New Zealand market we offer our customers, you know, lots of flexibility. So by, by changing, by merging kind of the free power offering into a currency we’ve given our customers lots of flexibility, which they really, they really like. And it’s so interesting to see how our customers use their free hours of power. So yeah, that’s kind of how I ended up here.
Carly: This is really good. And I like that you’ve come from the strategy mindset and the role, obviously the strategic direction. Now you’ve moved yourself across and it’s the delivery mode and that relationship with the customer and talking to the product, but also how that resonates.
So what I’d like you to do now is give us a bit of an idea of Power Shoutl itself. What are the metrics? How does it work? Because this is a really, it’s an excellent program. It is award winning and congratulations, of course. And it’s obviously something that when I met you, I can, I know how passionate you are about it as well because of what it really does for the customers. So take us through Power Shout, how it works. And then also what does it really give back to your customers?
Ria: So Power Shout is our loyalty platform that gives our residential customers the freedom to enjoy their free power however and whenever they like. It’s a currency based system where customers can bank their free hours and then book them on their own terms whenever they like.
And that gives our customers flexibility and choice which is a real differentiator within the New Zealand market. So there are lots of free power offerings in the New Zealand market, but they are very you know, they’re set in stone when it comes to like a customer. So it might be, you know, one free hour of power, but at an off peak time, or it could be, you know, three hours a day, but six times that they have to do it. So, which will work well for us for lots of customers. But I think what our customer base really value is the flexibility that they can use it, you know, all on one really, really cold winter’s day or maybe on Christmas when they’re cooking up a storm. And so we have lots of really awesome customer stories about how they use their Power Shouts.
And so for Genesis, Power Shout is it really drives our customer loyalty. We’ve proven that on lots of different accounts. It’s also our main platform for digital engagement. So the entire program is run through our app Energy IQ. And helps our customers kind of self serve and manage their energy.
And so since the program first started in 2018, we’ve given away over 25 million hours of free power.
Carly: Wow.
Ria: Which is really fantastic. And really cool to hear it. And a number like that.
Carly: Absolutely, that’s huge. And tell us about that because you have discussed before around the fact that it’s really focused on hardship support as well.
Ria: That’s right. So there are a number of different campaigns that we do with Power Shout lots of them, largely just to stem around, you know, giving free hours of powers, free hours of power to our customers. But every holiday season, so around November, December, we do what’s called our gifting campaign, which is really phenomenal.
So basically we offer our customers some free hours of power, but we give them a choice. So we allow them to either, you know, keep their hours for themselves. Like they would normally do with any standard campaign, or they have the option to donate those hours to a customer in need. And so in New Zealand, we have a term called Energy Hardship. So they’re not able to pay for the energy, particularly in the winter time. And that often results in poor health outcomes for these individuals that you know, can’t afford to heat their homes. And maybe it, they, It also might result in, you know, damp or moldy housing. So it’s estimated over 100,000 households in New Zealand are considered to be in Energy Hardship. And so that’s really quite staggering.
And so, Our gifting campaign is one way that we look to, you know, give again, give the power pun intended to our customers you know, helping, you know, those who really need the help, particularly over winter time. So we were really blown away by our most recent campaign in December. We had almost 30,000 customers donate their hours and then Genesis topped it up to 300,000 hours. So this coming June, we’re going to have 300,000 hours of free power to give to some customers and energy hardship, which is really heartwarming and really exciting and one of the reasons that I really love managing Power Shout.
Carly: Yeah. And a huge congratulations. That’s such a meaningful, meaningful loyalty program that there is absolutely no doubt about it. Now, the other part to your program as well, that really, really stands out is your sustainability angle. Tell us a little bit about that.
Ria: Yeah, that’s right. So that’s one of the key things that kind of wakes me up in the morning and, you know, gets me out of bed and into, into my office chair. So I really love the approach that we take at Genesis and we apply that to our loyalty program, Power Shout as well. So we have a really holistic view of sustainability and, and that’s really evident with our Power Shout gifting program that I mentioned.
But we’re, we’re, really excited because this year we looked at rounding that out a little bit more and connecting with our customers again on another kind of emotional level. And so, we released our new green icon a couple of months ago, which was centered around helping our customers understand when is a good time to book their Power Shouts. And It’ll be very similar to lots of different places around the world, but in New Zealand, you know, there’s a good time to consume electricity when we have lots of renewable energy you know, lots of renewable energy like hydro and wind.
But then there’s also a less good time to consume electricity when we have, you know, gas and coal running. And so we created the green icon to help customers get an understanding of when is a good time to use electricity and when is a good time to book your Power Shout. And so we basically have in our app when a customer is booking their Power Shout, there’s a little green icon to tell them, you know, when is a good time to use your carbon.
And so that’s really exciting. And it’s something that we know that our customers really care about. And so we, to put the cherry on top for the campaign. We also partnered with trees that count. So over the campaign period, every 10 green bookings that are done by our customers will equate to one native tree being planted, which is really exciting.
So the campaign still got a couple weeks ago, but I checked it a couple of weeks ago and we’re already at four and a half thousand trees on behalf of our customers. So it’s really exciting to see the engagement that we’re getting from our customer, from our customer base. And it’s really cool to see, you know, how much they care and yeah, it’s super heartwarming.
Carly: Next thing I want to ask you about because a huge congratulations about Power Shout. It’s a phenomenal program. And as I said earlier, an award winning one at the Asia Pacific Loyalty Awards. So big congratulations to yourself and the team.
Let’s also talk about some of your opinions because I want to hear from you around. What do you think about our lovely loyalty industry? So some of the good, the bad, the not so good, what are your favorites? What do you think about where we’re heading in the loyalty industry? What are you loving? And what are you seeing that you think is outstanding, right for us?
Ria: I think the Introduction of sustainability causes and just wider lenses to loyalty programs. You know, Power Shots, obviously a really good example of that, but that’s becoming more and more common and it’s really awesome to see. So one thing that comes to mind is you know, AIA’s Vitality program. And I think that’s such a cool way to engage your customer base and something that is so much more holistic than just, you know, points and redemption. So I think introduction of those sustainability lenses and whatever shape or form that might be, they don’t all have to be, you know, planting trees because there’s so much more to sustainability than, than that. And so that’s really awesome to see in, in the market.
I think the other thing that I’m also really in awe of is more visibility to customers on how their data is actually being used. So I think in a lot of industries, you know, customers are really unaware of how much data exchange is actually happening and what data is being, you know, taken from them. And so something that comes to mind is really the Woolworths sort of Everyday Rewards. And so I see that well, I’m reminded of that every time I go into the app and see, you know, my personalized boosts, I think they call it. And it’s very apparent to me that that is predicated on the you know, my shopping data. But I think that’s, I think I’m just very mindful that It’s a really good way to front up to the customer and, you know, we, how they use that data to benefit the customers. I, and I think it’s so much more transparent than lots of other industries.
And so I think that’s really cool to see. And I don’t know if that’s something that maybe only I kind of notice, or if you’re in the know, you kind of notice maybe the average consumer doesn’t, but I think it’s something really to be commended. And I think there are still it’s something that’s really prevalent and the loyalty industry, I think, is that transparency of data.
Carly: And one thing we’ve discussed before when we have met is your views and thoughts around segmenting and how we approach that from a loyalty perspective, and especially in a range of different programs. I’d love to share with you more around this as well, and areas we might need to improve when it comes to segmenting the market and the demographic.
Ria: Yeah, I think In terms of key watch outs for our industry, something that I’m increasingly mindful of is unintended consequences of, I guess, demographic driven customer segmentation. And so what I mean by that is, you know, you’re looking at potentially what, what your company perceives to be a high value customer. And that’s maybe based on spend, maybe it’s based on, you know, the, where they live. And, you know, a couple of other demographic kind of based data points.
I just worry that over time, depending on the way that you’ve structured your data and your segmentation model, that you’re basically going to end up with, you know, some very wealthy customers that get all of your very rich rewards. And then your lesser well off customers who probably can’t afford to spend so much with, or, or can’t afford to spend so much with you. And then they end up getting, you know, a second not as a rich offering. Now I say all of this with a little grain of salt. Like it really depends on the industry that your loyalty program is marketed in.
You know, something that is inherently spend based, like, I think we spoke about different makeup brands and, you know, obviously that has to be spend based and I can understand that, but I’m really coming from maybe a slightly more cautious industry like energy that has to think really practically about these things because energy is a fundamental human right.
I think there’s a real reputational risk there, especially for companies who play in industries where customers wellbeing is really impacted energy being one of them. Even, you know, the supermarkets and things like that to a certain extent, and maybe even banking, right. But I think more FMCG related companies, you can probably get away with those kinds of spend based tiers.
I just think in general, engagement based rewards isn’t something to sniff at either, and that’s something that everyone can participate in, regardless of, you know, how much they’re spending with you. Yeah, that’s something to keep in mind, I think, just for, for the industry in general.
Carly: Do you have a view on how you would approach, because I love your idea around let’s start focusing on engagement based rewards, tiers, earning, whatever that may look like. Any thoughts on how you would approach that?
Ria: Good question. I think there’s lots of opportunity for data exchange. You know, we spoke about that previously as well, right? So, customer data is a prize position, I guess, for whoever owns it. And so I think the exchange of that data, if we are increasingly trying to give customers more transparency over the data they’re providing and the use of that data, then that’s something that you could potentially actually weave into your loyalty platform, you know, hey, tell us your thoughts on ABC and, you know, here’s your reward for doing that.
And I think that’s not something that has to be done completely on its own. I think there’s a really cool balance that can be made between a spend based approach and an engagement based approach. And I think there’s some really cool ways that you can find the middle ground between the two, whether that’s, you know, having your spend based customers, kind of giving them the option to say, you know, like we do with our gifting program, right?
You know, giving them the option to say, you know, you’ve earned A, B and C, but would you like the option to give it to this kind of customer? Yeah, there’s there’s opportunity in that for sure. I don’t think it would be up to me to solve, to solve. I come up with lots of different ways, but I think there’s definitely opportunity there and we underestimate the reputational impact that these kinds of programs can have.
Carly: Yeah, that’s so true. And maybe you’re reaching back into your strategic mindset there a little bit around where we’re taking this and what we’re doing with whether it’s data and our, our rewards based programs. Where do you think the loyalty world is going to be in the next five years? What do you see coming future state?
Ria: Look, I guess my observation, or maybe it’s more of a perception of the market as a whole, is that loyalty programs tend to be for more premium brands. But I think In the future, we’ll see more challenger brands coming into the loyalty space with more sophisticated programs, kind of driven by digital technology.
And so we have a really good example of that actually in New Zealand. So we have a challenger petrol station brand called Waitomo and they have a really fantastic program. Again, digitally enabled and the loyalty program is honestly far more engaging than some of the other, you know, big main players in the market they have.
And the way, the one thing that I really appreciate about their program in particular, is that it’s based on your dollars spent. So if you spend, I can’t remember exactly if you spend like 50 dollars, then you get some rewards whereas other programs in that same bucket, do it based on like how many liters of petrol that you are buying.
And so for me, I just felt like the white homo program was a little bit more customer centric being based on the amount that you spend rather than the number of liters that you’re purchasing. Right? Because it means that they’re right there with you when it comes to, you know, the price of petrol is going up again. And again, I’m probably not an average consumer reading, reading into that a little bit more, but I think so that would kind of be one observation or hypothesis kind of, or predictions, better word, going, going into the future.
I think another one is that I also think we’ll see maybe consolidation of bigger players from different industries coming together to form what I would say is something akin to like a loyalty ecosystem. And so Everyday Rewards is a really good example of that. Like we can already see that happening. So, you know, Woolworths in New Zealand, BP, and also ASB you know, big players from different industries coming together to use a unified platform, I think is something that will potentially become more commonplace.
And I actually think that also goes hand in hand with just customer attitude and behavior. So we might see households kind of belonging to one or two different loyalty ecosystems to make sure, you know, they’re getting the best bang for their buck, I guess. And I would say that people don’t really have the headspace to kind of, you know, think or people don’t really have the head space or capacity to kind of think about these millions of loyalty programs that they’re a part of.
And so I think we might be heading towards a world where, you know, there are one or two ecosystems that an individual householders as a part of, and there might be well, at the very least in a New Zealand market context, there might be five or six ecosystems at play potentially.
Carly: This is very cool. I like where your mind’s going and how far, well, it may not be so far in the future. Let’s wait and see. But it definitely comes back to that customer centric mindset that you touched on earlier. How is it making the customer’s life easier? How is it making their life easier to engage? Redeem, whether it’s the earn and redeem, and then obviously bring it back to the emotional connection as well, exactly as we started this conversation around, how can you look out into your garden and see what you’ve redeemed your points on in your own home as well.
So before we do wrap up today as well, can you tell me, what are you most proud of throughout your loyalty journey?
Ria: Oh, what a great question. I think I’m really, really proud of my team and the journey that we’ve been on with Power Shout. I’m really proud of the things that we’re delivering for our customers. And I’m really proud of the vision that we’ve set for the program. And that was one of the first jobs that I kind of had taking on this really phenomenal program was that we had legs, but we didn’t really have a vision set for what we wanted to do with this program. And so that would be something that I’m really proud of.
It’s not only, you know, talking to customers and, and getting our ducks in a row to figure out what we wanted to deliver for them. But it was also about, you know, sitting this vision with my team and, you know, it’s already starting to pay off obviously with the awards, the Asia Pacific Loyalty Awards.
I’m really grateful that we have evolved the program in such a way that it’s, you know, getting some really awesome reconnection. Recognition that’s really well deserved. And so I’m just really proud of my team and what we’ve been able to achieve for customers. Yeah, that would be it in a nutshell, I guess.
Carly: Yeah, fantastic. And I mean, aside from the fact you won an award for it, of course the fact that the program itself addresses so many fundamental needs and in our community. Great. Hats off to you all. So congratulations to you and the team. And then very big thank you for joining me today. How can anyone connect with you? What’s the best way to connect with you, Ria?
Ria: People can connect with me on LinkedIn by all means. Just make sure you put a little message in there when you connect with me. So I know the nature of your connection and why you’re reaching out. Cause it would be awesome to yeah, to chat about loyalty.
Carly: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time today. It’s been such a pleasure having a chat with you and have a great rest of your week.
Ria: Thanks so much for having me, Carly. It’s been a pleasure.
Paula: This show is brought to you by the Australian Loyalty Association, the leading organization for loyalty networking and education in the Asia Pacific region.
Their Asia Pacific Loyalty Conference will take place on the 7th and 8th of August this year at the Gold Coast, Australia. With over 350 guests in attendance, including yours truly from Let’s Talk Loyalty. I can’t wait to meet so many loyalty experts from the Asia Pacific region in person. Register now to hear global experts discuss current trends in loyalty marketing. There will be fantastic networking opportunities, hosted drinks and dinners, appointment bookings, competitions, and great prizes to be won.
Visit australianloyaltyassociation.com to find out more.
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