Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
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Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV. Today’s episode features a brand we’ve been wanting on the show for ages. The LEGO Group is the company behind the world’s beloved LEGO Bricks, the world famous toy brand that has been sparking imaginations and inspiring the builders of tomorrow since 1932. The company remains proudly family owned and is headquartered in Denmark with regional hubs, as well as multiple manufacturing facilities around the world. Creating play based experiences that are sold in over 130 countries.
Joining us today to share the story of LEGO’s strategy is Aaron Mitchell, LEGO’s Global Vice President of Membership and Personalization, who explains how LEGO is increasing its focus on membership and community in order to connect with customers and inspire them. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
So Aaron Mitchell, welcome back to Let’s Talk Loyalty and most importantly, welcome to Loyalty TV.
Aaron: Thank you, Paula. It’s amazing to be back here and I cannot believe it’s three and a half years since the last time we spoke. A lot has changed since then.
Paula: Well, it’s actually hard to keep up with you, Aaron. I think you have just the most iconic career in the loyalty profession. And I’m going to straight up encourage everyone listening to this show to make sure that they link in with you because honestly, the work you’re doing is is truly extraordinary. So thank you for your time today. I know you’re busy building teams, building propositions, and there’s an awful lot going on in this latest role, and just one that I’ve been dying to get the backstory and I suppose all of the insights from you, Aaron, in terms of what you’re doing with LEGO.
So it’s going to be an incredible discussion. So let’s get straight into it. As you know, our opening question is always one that we look to loyalty experts to get a sense of what they admire. Of course, excluding your own program or anything you’ve ever worked on, but kick us off with telling us Aaron Mitchell, what is your current favorite loyalty program, please?
Aaron: I love when you say excluding what I’ve worked on because I’m very proud of the things that we’ve done. But being in my adoptive home of Denmark, I have to choose a Danish brand and it’s called Joe in the Juice. I’ve been a huge fan of them for a very long time since I first started traveling here in 10 years ago.
And they have just revamped their app. And what I really like about the Loyalty Program and the app is it’s convenient firstly. So I can choose any location in the city where I can pick up my order. I can customize my order. I can choose to add different things, collect it wherever I want, but also get rewarded, which is great. So I get points, which I can redeem. I get bundle offers.
I also get great tech support. So When I first started using the app, I started having challenges with payment. So I measured them quite quickly and very soon they came back and solved the challenge for me. So I felt very supported. So you get to know some of the first things who would have thought that a juice bar would actually open up a drive through and they’ve just recently opened a drive through on the bigger island of shell and where Copenhagen is, and I was the first to know.
And I also got to try their new protein shakes before others. And there’s a lot of gamification. So, it’s a brand I love. I love smoothies and healthy eating and it just offers me the things I need.
Paula: Amazing. Well, thank you for bringing a both a Scandinavian and of course, specifically a Danish example, Aaron.
We definitely don’t get enough of variety in answers to that question because so many of us, of course, love global iconic brands. Joe and the Juice has opened up here in Dubai recently I haven’t yet had a chance to go and check it out. But I think I said to you off air that I did write an article about them a long time ago.
So I just have these wonderful memories of just incredible respect for, you know, the founder seems to be very much, as you said, digitally savvy, innovative. And even I remember and I’m, you know, don’t quote me exactly, but when they do I suppose hire the the people, you know, obviously baristas to do coffee and obviously the juice makers, like they hold auditions, you know, it’s just like, it’s not just a, you know, a day job or whatever, and you come in it, you really have to have the personality to go with it. So it’s a truly an iconic brand and wonderful to see more success coming out of Scandinavia.
Aaron: Yeah, and their in store experience is amazing. Great music, great atmosphere, and they’re able to blend digital and physical seamlessly, so it works.
Paula: A hundred percent. And I, my other memory is that you could do a tip in the app for the staff member who served you, which I thought was cool because sometimes you mightn’t get to do it at the till or, you know, the moment might pass you by. So again, it was just very thoughtful. So a brilliant example to kick us off, Aaron, and I would expect nothing less.
So let’s get into your backstory. As you said, it’s been three and a half years and you are on the show under a totally different guise and not dissimilar in terms of, I suppose, the loyalty intentions and strategy equally iconic. But for people who haven’t heard that particular episode yet, Aaron, please do tell us what have you done in your loyalty career to get into this incredible role with LEGO?
Aaron: Gosh, where to start? I’ve been very privileged to work. And help iconic brands grow started off with gap, the American clothing retailer, and again, a very great purpose, express your personal style and how do you build loyalty and experiences around that.
And then at IKEA, I mean, an amazing purpose which you will never be done with, which was to create a better everyday life for the many people. And I was very privileged to work both at a country level and a global level really to design a loyalty proposition and program that helps people bring their ideas for their home to life. And under the time I was there, we grew from 100 million to when I left, like it was an incredible 184 million, which is mind blowing.
And at the same time, we also launched a membership proposition for small business owners. And again, how could we help small business owners do business their way? So there was a lot of opportunities to solve problems, create value and be very in more present in people’s everyday lives, whether it’s at home or in work.
And then I went to another iconic brand, Ford Motor Company. And I had the wonderful privilege of working for Elena Ford, who was the great, great granddaughter of Henry Ford. So again, family heritage and another great purpose. How can we give people the freedom to move and pursue their dreams? And of course, building out experiences and loyalty around that. And the small transformation of moving to electrified vehicles, connected mobility and a lot of how we could support and engage with people of, What are their fears and worries about moving from a diesel or petrol vehicle to an electric vehicle? Range anxiety, charging challenges, a dashboard that looks like a computer system. So there’s many different ways that we looked at how we could solve problems and really about giving people that freedom to move. So wonderful purpose there as well.
And then LEGO came along and approached me and said, would I be interested and to talk to them about their loyalty program and their ambitions. And of course, LEGO is straight back to my childhood. I had flashbacks to all of the LEGO bricks that I used to like leave all over the floor or the sets that I built. And again, a wonderful purpose to inspire the builders of tomorrow, which I love because there’s no age limit and anyone can be a builder of tomorrow.
And then the other part is to be a global force for learning through play. And that also is an incredible purpose. So there’s not many times you get the opportunity to help iconic brands in terms of shaping their loyalty proposition and really finding new ways to connect with members and consumers and customers.
And throughout my career, the sort of guiding principles, you could say that helped me. Decide the brands I want to work with and to do the things I do. It’s always about a purposeful brand. So is the brand’s purpose really clear? And that gives you amazing opportunities to design a loyalty proposition as the best expression of the brand. And it helps to bring it in a much more personal and intimate way with each member.
Then how can we create value? It’s always about creating value. I’ve been in many conversations and I’m sure other people listening to this in similar loyalty roles, you always have to have that balance of creativity and commercial ality.
And many times you get people saying, I just need to sell this product. I need to sell more. Well, then it’s more about encouraging to say, well, what value are we creating for the users so that they would choose our products more often? So it’s all about how do we create value for the member. How do we enable them to access that value and then make it rewarding and really redefining what rewarding means because it’s not just about points. It could be many different things. So that’s always guided me in the brands I choose to work with and how I help the organization see the value of what membership can offer.
And of course, it’s always about showing the contribution to the business. You know, we know members buy more, visit more often. We can drive incremental value. There’s a lot of great things we need to prove through data. But also many members are great advocates of the brand and fans of the brand. So there’s always the brand value, business value as well.
Paula: Absolutely. I couldn’t have said it better myself, Aaron. You know, there is always that balance you know, between, as you said, what does the consumer need and what does the business need? And neither one can dominate. They both have to succeed and thrive. And I hear that coming through every time I speak with you. So it’s always honestly so inspiring to see how you do that.
And one of the reasons I wanted this conversation today was about, post that I had seen about LEGO, and I’m sure most of the people listening or watching to this show are very familiar with the extraordinary turnaround that LEGO has had.
You know, the brand I know is still a family business, which is a wonderful context, I suppose, for you. You know, it’s been, I think, around since 1932, if I’m not mistaken, with my research. So in business a very long time, but certainly did go through, I suppose, a lot of challenges back.
I think it was kind of the 90s. And certainly a quick Google will show anybody the kind of incredible turnaround that LEGO has achieved. And I think in the context of, you know, obviously an increasingly digital world and to pick up even on your own point, Aaron, you know, you are, you know, probably a typical perhaps, you know, grown up LEGO player with all of the nostalgia that you did play as a child.
But LEGOs in so many more markets now. So it’s quite incredible to see what’s been done with digital. and to bring in women who want to to build with LEGO, as you alluded to the power of play, even in the corporate world.
Aaron: Yes.
Paula: I’ve read that Google uses LEGO, for example, as part of its kind of brainstorming. So there is just so much goodness in LEGO in terms of what LEGO is doing right now.
And for me, the key is actually, you know, to go back briefly to your Ikea time, the idea of community and membership is obviously such a powerful strategy. Where was LEGO when they contacted you, Aaron, had they already kind of said, do you know what we do need to have these members and create that business?
Give us maybe the backstory before you joined, because you’re, I know you’ve done loads already and relaunched. So give us maybe the history of of loyalty in LEGO.
Aaron: Yeah, very good question. So as you say, you know, the LEGO Group has a very rich history. In Billund where the company formed, you can still go and see the original workshop where the founder started working on toys and ideas. And it is very much, you go there, you feel it’s the heart and soul of the brand.
And what I have really noticed when I started meeting with people at the LEGO Group is everyone’s so passionate about the brand and of course life changes world’s change and in a sense of many different factors, but the LEGO Group has always been very true to its purpose about inspiring builders of tomorrow, and being a global force for learning through play, just the world around has been changing.
And so when I first was meeting with them last year they had a very clear sort of, vision, which is building direct and long lasting relationships. And they were very open and honest with me to say, They had a loyalty program, but it was very much within the LEGO retail part of the business.
And it was a very transactional led program, very traditional earn and burn. And it was called LEGO VIP, which I, in my interview, I remember saying, well, that’s interesting VIP because, you know, we want to be a global force for learning through play for everyone. Why wouldn’t we call it VIB, very important builders instead or something like that?
So what I sensed was a commitment from the family and from top management that we really want to build direct and long lasting relationships. Because we have such a purposeful brand, we’re beloved and trusted by so many people around the world, but you still have so many other brands and so many other ways, fighting for people’s mental availability for their time.
And everything else having that direct and long lasting relationship is really about us helping people be the tomorrow which, you know, could be anyone and learning through play. And that’s where it really excited me about the journey ahead and that they kind of had a vision, but they needed somebody like me or somebody else to help kind of, show the way to the organization.
And it is a little bit like IKEA, where an amazing heritage, amazing history and really great sort of roots within the brand and the heritage but building that direct and long lasting relationship wasn’t something they’d kind of cracked the code with yet. So it was a wonderful opportunity when I met with them.
And as I said, there’s not many times in your career, you get the opportunity to help an iconic brands that you grew up with transform. And so last year we relaunched our membership program and it became LEGO Insiders. And it’s quite a nice way of describing the membership program because from being a VIP, it’s actually, you’re on the inside.
By being a member, you get access and belonging to this amazing world where you can play, build, and be creative. So through Insiders membership you get access to this whole world. You get additional content, you get special content, you get rewards, we do Insiders days we introduced a new feature where even if you didn’t buy direct from LEGO branded channels, you could still register your product or purchase and still get points. So again, it’s trying to give more value to our members.
And also I think it was November, end of November, beginning of December last year, we also launched our LEGO Insiders Club for kids. Of course, being a brand that is loved by so many people it’s also really important for us and for our long term success to continually engage with children because again it is this global force for learning through play. It is about inspiring the builders of tomorrow and you know, there’s a so much we can offer parents and families around play and learning. It’s not just a brick or a LEGO set. It’s imagination, creativity and ending with that is both physical and digital experiences. We have a play zone, which is part of our website.
We relaunched recently A LEGO play app which again is for kids. We have an app for building instructions and alternative building instructions. So there’s a lot really that we can offer but not everyone is aware of all of these different touch points or offerings. So the direct relationship is important because it’s about bringing it together into a unified proposition and through your membership, you get access, as I said before, to this amazing world of play, learning, and creativity. Which, again, I mean, every day I kind of wake up and go, wow, what an amazing opportunity to help this, a wonderful brand continue to grow.
Paula: Yeah. Well, I mean, so much to pick up on there, Aaron. I think it would be remiss if I didn’t, first of all, I suppose, compliment you on, you know, flagging that idea that VIPs is actually not remotely aspirational for a brand like LEGO, as much as I can see where that thinking obviously would have come from in terms of obviously driving profitable behavior change, like so many loyalty programs are designed to do. But as you said, if the brand purpose is much more all encompassing, much more intended to create brand love for every single LEGO player.
And again, whether it’s digital, whether it’s physical, no matter what market segment they might be, it’s brilliant that you made it, you know, into just a you know, a word like Insiders, where people feel like they are part of something that’s super inspiring. I think that alone is a really important development, that subtle yet dramatic transformation of the brand.
Aaron: Yeah, it is. And also when we relaunched it, we also wanted to make sure we had new features so that it wasn’t just changing the name and changing, like treating it like changing of just a poster or an image. So we really wanted to make sure when we relaunched there was new features. So that’s where the product registration benefit came from.
And of course we’re not done. We’ve only just started. So now we’re really thinking about what could be new benefits, new experiences, new rewards to really help give this access and belonging.
And I really focus on those two words importantly, because access is like the men, your membership gives you access, but we should be really clear to the member what you get access to. Because a lot of brands, you know, you offer loyalty programs and the access is either just very transactional or it’s just not clear. Value is just not clear. So, I think me joining Into the LEGO Group. We still have work to do to make that value even clearer maybe that’s my inner perfectionism in me, but I think we could still do a lot more to really create clear and tangible value for our members and really help them understand like when I sign up, you get access to something quite special and amazing.
Belonging is also important because that kind of bridges from kind of just transactional or some experiences into the emotional part. I feel like I belong to something. And of course, it should always be on the terms of the member. I should choose how much belonging I would like. And in that belonging, that could be things like the Insiders Day, the events that we do. You always have a choice. But the belonging makes it feel more than just like a straightforward transactional loyalty, program.
And we call out membership quite explicitly because it is about again belonging to something. Membership gives me access and also I feel belonging with other members as well.
And as I said in my previous, interview with you about IKEA It’s the same here for the LEGO Group is we also need to reverse the loyalty equation And really think about how we can be loyal to our members I still hear a lot of brands saying we need to drive customer loyalty and all the other stuff which yes, that’s true. It’s an outcome. But to get to that, really, how can we be loyal to our members? And to our customers? Because without members and customers, we don’t have any type of program. So yes, we have relaunched last year lot more ambitious plans. And again, as I said, with a purpose and a vision like ours, never going to run out of ideas, never going to run out opportunities to create value.
Paula: Indeed. I’d come to work every day with fun, as you said, it sounds like you jump out of bed every day to come in and see what more amazing things you can create. And again, I think I said to you last time we spoke Aaron again, offline, but so much of what you’re saying is really resonating with me, even though we’re, you know, a B2B business you know, a content led business.
Like we are like really now clear as well ourselves on, you know, the power of belonging, for example, to a loyalty community to our audience, you know, and again, like you, like, I’m really thinking about how can we drive more value to our community? Because that’s really what is important. It’s not about how many more necessarily people can I get to listen, but how can I really make sure that this, you know, what we’re doing every single day, exactly like LEGO Insiders is just focused on that lovely altruistic but very real intention.
So, everything you’ve said, I’ve written so many notes around building direct and long lasting relationships. I think with so many brands that again, like the LEGO Group, traditionally we’re a manufacturing company, but now of course have become really marketing led organizations that understand the responsibility, I suppose, as much as the opportunity to be of service to an incredible community that just becomes an advocate.
Aaron: You’re absolutely right. And I think it’s, I said this always before for me, whenever looking at loyalty programs or your proposition or your offering, it should always be the best representation of the brand. It should always start with your vision and purpose of your brand. And then what is the unique role that a membership proposition can play?
Cause quite often we can write a proposition that’s kind of generic and could just be served by the brand. So then it’s easy for the business to say, well, why do we need this then? Because we would offer this for everyone. So I think it is about the direct, the long lasting, the relationship, but I’d add an extra dimension that membership can, or loyalty programs can really do, which is personalization because you have a direct relationship.
And that’s kind of our next mission, you could say, is we relaunched Insiders. We’ve got some good new benefits and features. We’re continuously working on our rewards and our experiences. We really want to drive more personalization at scale. And really understanding different members needs wants and in dreams.
And also, if you put it through the world of the LEGO Group, you know, people play differently and people, some people are creators, some people are builders, some people are play. And there’s many people who don’t always know the width of our portfolio. Some people might buy a LEGO set as a gift. Some people might buy it for themselves. So we really want to work on how we can get to know more about you. What is the value we can offer you? And of course, if we offer you value there’s business value in return, but somebody buying, say, our botanics range for the first time, which I have said I’m a big fan of, we built lots of that at home over Christmas and also the art which I love the Japanese wave one that you can build, and that’s about creativity and expression.
But many people buy that just based on one individual product. So how do we then help you to discover more of what we can offer and more of your interests and passion points? And this is kind of what I see a lot now in the trends within loyalty and within CRM because they’re so into integrally linked that a lot of it is about redefining value.
And I’ve seen not to mention any brands names, but I’ve seen some brands kind of relaunching their loyalty program with actually reducing the value for members or changing the terms and conditions. And of course there’s always business reasons for it. And there’s always tough choices to make.
However, what is that long term impact on the perception of the member on your program? And I also saw some brands now gamifying spend. So they’re kind of introducing spend challenges. And again, back to the sort of responsible spending and responsibility, how does that kind of align with your core values as a brand?
So I think that’s kind of what I’m seeing is a lot of value being redefined more members becoming a little bit skeptical about certain loyalty programs, either subscription models, or if you’re gamifying me to spend more. But what I do see, and that’s what we’re really trying to do at the LEGO Group, is to drive more of that personalization.
Paula: Yeah.
Aaron: One, I saw an example, which was going to be my other favorite loyalty program, which I thought was a great one is Sephora have recently relaunched into My Sephora and what I really like about that is the my, and it’s just, it’s a slight change. And of course, they’ve updated the proposition and there’s different benefits and features. But for me, what it signals is My Sephora is about me. And I think that’s really the sweet spot for membership programs and loyalty propositions in the future. Where is the human and the member at the center of that?
Paula: Totally. Totally, Aaron. And there’s just a million ideas going off in my head, but again, Sephora is one that we often look to we haven’t yet had them on the show. Please God, we will at some stage we’re actively inviting them. But you’re absolutely right. There are so many elements to the proposition, certainly for LEGO, as you’ve talked about, even back to IKEA, absolutely within Sephora, my favorite piece.
And it goes back to what you said when you were with that with us on that previous interview is that the brand doesn’t necessarily have, you know, all the answers in terms of what’s possible, for example to use the LEGO example, like the degree of imagination is literally you know, off the charts.
It’s impossible to imagine all of the possible ideas and joy that can be created and built. So what better than to bring your Insiders together to inspire each other in the same way that members of My Sephora again we’ll talk about, you know, beautiful looks of makeup to inspire each other. So the brand doesn’t have to be, you know, the font of all knowledge. And again, you said it with IKEA, there’s millions of different ways to design your home or your office. And let people talk to each other and discuss exactly what they need. Like, it’s just a virtuous circle. I feel that you’ve created once you facilitate that, that community.
Aaron: I agree. I think for me, it’s a lot about driving participation. And as I said earlier it’s always for the member to decide how much they want to participate within. Cause you could say one of the challenges when I first joined the LEGO Group and even at IKEA is trying to understand the delicate balance between a formal membership program and then fandom and communities.
And it is a delicate balance because communities are made by people. And a lot of research we have done previously. Community people are very clear. We build communities, brands can take part, but if a brand tries to build a community, it’s seen as kind of stealth advertising was one of the quotes consumer gave us.
And so I think it is, how do we encourage participation? And this patient can come in so many different forms. So the LEGO Group, you know, participation could be come and visit our website and just explore ideas or our themes or our different steps that we have available. Also come and participate in some of our activities.
We do for families, we do like play activities, if it’s, you know, particularly in the UK, a rainy day during the summer, and you’ve got kids running around, you don’t quite know what to do, on the website for members if you log in, you get access to, like, these games and these activities to entertain the children. And that encourages participation within the family. And then what’s lovely is that the LEGO Group has kind of facilitated that participation and again, all of that content is free. You just need to be a member. So I think that’s really what I see happening a lot within the world of loyalty now is driving participation and kind of this ladder now of transactional experiences to emotional.
And it sounds a little bit maybe fluffy or hypothetical emotional loyalty, but the reality is we all make decisions based on emotions. We think we do or not. That’s for another debate, but we make most of the decisions we make are based on emotions and feelings and we post rationalism afterwards.
Paula: Yeah.
Aaron: So you always think about how people make you feel and how experiences and brands make you feel. So for me, that’s a lot around sort of four pillars, how do we make it easy for you to use your membership and to see and feel and experience the value of the sort of participation? Is it easy for you to take part as a member in certain things? And do you have a choice for recognized? And that’s where the personalization comes in. Do you really recognize where I am in my particular journey? Am I looking for a gift? Am I in a purchase journey. Am I just in a discovery journey? Am I stressed because the kids are running around like crazy? It’s raining outside and I just need to entertain them. So again, make it easy and make me feel recognized that I can get the things that I need to make my day a little bit better.
And then is it rewarding for me and I use the word rewarding not rewards because rewards, of course, is a currency and it’s very powerful, but it’s more than that. It needs to be a rewarding experience and that’s something also the LEGO Group. We’re on a mission to improve is the we have a reward center.
If you’re an Insiders member, you can log in, you can see your point, you can see your points, give you many different things. It could be like a poster, piece of art discount. Like we try to make it more variety than opposed to just the usual points equals a coupon. Of course that’s still what people want, but you know, a lot of people might want more than that.
So I think for us, it’s a lot around tapping into these trends within the world of loyalty around making it easy, driving participation, recognizing people and then making it rewarding.
Paula: Honestly, you’re absolutely, I know, totally, first of all, you know, preaching to the converted and I feel like it is a masterclass in in the mindset of membership. So absolutely, I know you have the currency, I know you have the extraordinary breadth and depth of content and we’re unfortunately very short on time today, so we won’t be able to get into any more detail, but I just want to, I suppose, compliment you on really supporting the LEGO Group through such a dramatic change opportunity. Even the, you know, again, subtle differences between the Insiders you know, as a membership and then the Insiders club.
Aaron: Yes.
Paula: To have the wonderful distinction of a place for the parents, also a place for adults as builders in their own right, which I think is brilliant. And then the Insiders club. Of course, which as you’ve said, is for the children, a safe space in a digital world, which is often, I think, a big concern for parents as to where their children are spending time digitally. So I know you’ve done extraordinary work with fortnite and and you are embracing the digital world.
I think we’ll just have to leave it there for today, Aaron and let you get on with your day. And hope that you’ll come back and share the updated story, please God in the not too distant future. I hope it’s not another three and a half years before we before we speak again.
Aaron: Yes. Let’s not leave it that long next time.
Paula: Totally.
Aaron: And thank you so much for having me today and for allowing me to share a little bit of my journey and experience. I hope it inspires and other people who also are doing amazing stuff within the world of loyalty as well.
Paula: Indeed. Absolutely. We’ll listen on that note. Aaron Mitchell, Global Vice President of Membership and Personalization for the LEGO Group. Thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty at Loyalty TV.
Aaron: Thank you, Paula.
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