#487: Loyalty Research and Insights from Brazil

Today’s conversation is designed to showcase some lessons and learnings from Brazil.

My guest is Tatyane Macêdo, Head of Communications at a loyalty consulting company called Valuenet, based in Sao Paulo, Brazil.

She is also the Editor-in-chief of Tudo Sobre Incentivos, which they describe as the main educational content platform on Loyalty and incentives in Brazil.

Tatyane reached out to us to share some research they conducted with a sample of consumers in Brazil, and conducted in partnership with ABEMF, which is essentially the South American Loyalty Association.

The research is in its third year and was designed to get a better understanding of the perceptions of these consumers around the various loyalty programs they are members of – what they like and dislike, as well as some ideas on how Brazilian loyalty programs can serve them even more.

If you’re interested in Brazil as a market for your business, please listen to learn some insights from this conversation.

Show notes:

1) Tatyane Macêdo

2) Valuenet

3) Tudo Sobre Incentivos⁠


Audio Transcript

Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.

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Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. As many of you know, we usually have a short show on Tuesdays. However, this month is slightly different as we’re busy creating a new podcast series for Tuesdays, but it’s not launching until February. So, in the meantime, we’re publishing some additional interviews, which I hope you enjoy.

Today is a conversation to showcase some lessons and learnings from Brazil. My guest is Taty Macedo, Head of Communications at a loyalty consulting company called Valuenet, based in Sao Paulo. She’s also the Editor-in-Chief of the main educational content platform on loyalty and incentives in Brazil.

Taty reached out to us to share some research they conducted with a sample of consumers and conducted in partnership with ABEMF, which is essentially the South American Loyalty Association. The research is in its third year and was designed to get a better understanding of the perceptions of these consumers across the various loyalty programs they’re members of, what they like and dislike, as well as some ideas on how Brazilian loyalty programs can serve them even better. If you’re interested in Brazil as a market for your business, I’m sure you’ll enjoy learning some insights from Taty in this conversation. 

So, Taty Macedo, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty. 

Tatyane: Thank you. I’m very happy to be here. 

Paula: Great. Great. We certainly on this show have not done nearly enough work despite trying our best all about loyalty in South America. It’s a market that I find fascinating, particularly having visited Brazil very briefly for the first time last year. So I was delighted when you reached out, I know you’re doing some incredible work there to support the whole country specifically of Brazil for loyalty professionals to get a sense of what’s going on. So that’s the purpose of our conversation today. 

So Taty, before we get into talking about your loyalty research with Brazilian consumers, as you know, we always start this conversation with a very fixed question, just to help us understand what you as a loyalty professional tend to admire and enjoy or appreciate. So let me kick off with that one, exactly. So tell me Taty. What is your favorite loyalty program in Brazil? 

Tatyane: I have to say for me, it’s all about integration. Not only earn and burn, you know, what I love is when the loyalty program managed to include all the rules and the benefit within the company business strategy.

Let me explain. I love when I don’t want to look for a way to earn points or to get a discounts in the small prints or look in the FAQ. So what I think is the consumer shouldn’t have to look in the small prints, the consumer, the most important thing is when I access the website or the app and I’m immediately dazzled by the loyalty strategy. It’s supposed to be effortless and completely integrated with my experience as a consumer. So there are three programs that I can talk about with authority because I know their intention. I mean, I know the intention of the strategy. 

First I want to say Burger King. The name of program here in Brazil is Clube BK. It’s called Burger King. BK Club. 

Paula: Oh, nice. At least. Yeah. 

Tatyane: At least here in Brazil, if you know Burger King, you know, BK Clube is when you use the app, the same app, when you get information, how to buy products or about the company is the same place where you, when you get access to the information about your points, how to get points, how to get discounts and what you have to do to earn a free offer. So it’s all linked. We don’t have to, you don’t have to look for in another place. You don’t have to open another website or ask for help. 

Paula: Got it. 

Tatyane: It’s installing. 

Paula: Okay. 

Tatyane: It’s all right there. And I also want to talk about Ipiranga. It’s a major field distributor here in Brazil. The clients are gas stations, so it’s a B2B loyalty program. 

Paula: Okay. 

Tatyane: The program is called Ipiranga top. But basically they build relationship with the sellers and what they do is they enable and sometimes they mentor them in a way that they can provide a great service and experience for the customer. So this is very interesting because when you play, when you plan a loyalty program, have to be accountable. You have to pay attention to the whole ecosystem. Now more than ever, we have to be customer centric. 

And finally, another strategy that is very interesting for me, and it’s all about integration is Atlantica Hotels and it’s a hotel managed chain. And right now, if you look for Atlantica, the first thing you’re going to find is Let’s. Let’s is the name of the loyalty program. This is show how much loyalty is important to them. And this is show how much loyalty is taken seriously here in Brazil. 

Paula: Amazing. Yeah.

Tatyane: So have a big company. And the first thing that consumers see is the loyalty program. So, to summarize, when you think about planning a new loyalty program, plan the whole thing. But think about the whole ecosystem, think about integration. 

Paula: I love it. Yes. Well, very well and very clearly stated Taty. So thank you for those three great examples. Certainly Burger King is not one that we’ve either, I think had mentioned before as a favorite loyalty program. Nor have we had them on the show, so hopefully someone from Burger King around the world will hear this discussion and and might get in contact with us so we could have them as a guest on the show as well. Cause I think that would be super interesting. So well done to Burger King and their BK Clube. 

And yeah it’s a, it’s wonderful to hear you using a word like dazzled, you know, that’s a very strong word and that’s how loyalty should feel. As a consumer, I think we want to be dazzled and, you know, we’re now in 2024. So we’re coming into a new year, I suppose, new ambition for a lot of loyalty program owners. So might as well set the high benchmark and sounds like that’s exactly what you’re doing in Brazil. 

Tatyane: Exactly. We have the same here in Brazil that we have, our consumers are very demanding. They are doing, they are right now, they are empowered with information, they are empowered with a knowledge about how the loyalty programs work. So if you want to earn the attention, you have to be creative. 

Paula: Got it.

Tatyane: You have to really dazzle them. 

Paula: Okay, amazing. So listen, we’re going to talk about the research that you guys have conducted. But of course, I think it’d be useful to introduce, I suppose, your own personal career in terms of how you got into loyalty and also the two brands that you’re going to be representing today in terms of both the agency, of course, and the content creation website that you do manage and lead in order to be of service to Brazilian loyalty professionals. So would you mind giving us all of the introductions, Taty, so that we know a little bit about you and your companies? 

Tatyane: Of course. My background is in communication. I used to work in TV. I used to work in radio, but in the last eight years, I’ve been working with marketing and loyalty. I work, I’m Head of Marketing at this company called Valuenet. This company is in the market for about 20 years and they specialize in planning and strategize, and providing technology for loyalty programs for companies that wants to build a loyalty program. 

But what we thought about like eight years ago was we see there are people want to know about loyalty. People want to learn. And there wasn’t a place for people to get information. So we built this site, this website, we call it Tudos Sobre Incentivos. It’s all about incentives. And our purpose in, with this website is totally educational. So we do, we provide eBooks, we do surveys with consumers. We also do podcasts sometimes. And it’s it’s the main our main concern is to educate the market so the market can grow faster. And with more information as possible.

Paula: Amazing.

Tatyane: I’m also totally in love about consumer behavior and behavior economics. So I find myself in this area and yeah. Right now I’m very passionate about loyalty.

Paula: It’s hard to leave, isn’t it? Once you get into it. 

Tatyane: Yeah, exactly. 

Paula: Yeah, me too. Wonderful. So, so fantastic. From a value net perspective, I really love your tagline actually. So loyalty as a business strategy. I think that is. super clear. And I’m sure as head of communications, you were you know, in some way responsible for that. So I think that’s a lesson that a lot of us could take to a lot of our brands, actually, and a lot of our clients. So that’s really nice. 

And I don’t speak any Portuguese. So you’ll have to forgive me in terms of the content website that you guys do support and create and own. But of course, what we’ll do is make sure to link to that in the show notes. So anybody listening to this podcast, who wants to get a sense of the Brazilian market, of course, can use like me, I suppose, the help of Google translate, but at least they’ll have the right website to go to with all of the amazing content that you’re creating. So it’s always lovely to meet somebody who believes actually in content and as a marketing strategy.

Tatyane: Exactly. We really do believe. And when we talk about loyalty as a business strategy is something that we came up because we were looking for a way to talk to the brands to talk to the big companies and say, in order to, we deliver a great experience, a great loyalty experience for the consumer, we have to involve a lot of, we have to involve all the areas, all the main areas in a company. You have to think strategically. The main the business core is important. It’s not, let’s not create a loyalty program just because my competitor has one. Let’s create a loyalty program because we understand the consumer, because we understand what we want as a company. And then we can think strategically in a loyalty for a long term experience.

Paula: Exactly. Yes. It’s not all about points or prizes. It is about relationships.

Tatyane: Exactly.

Paula: And profitable behavior from the customers themselves. So, so nice positioning, nice framing. So let’s get into the research then, Taty. Again, I know that Brazil hadn’t had any, I suppose, market research before you guys decided to take the lead. So maybe you take us back to the beginning, the initial idea. I know you work with the Brazilian Loyalty Association on that as well. So I’d love to just get the origin story for the research that we’re gonna talk through today and how the the Brazilian Loyalty Association works, just even at a basic level to give us a sense of who’s involved with creating this content.

Tatyane: We have. It was about four years ago before the pandemic. We had the our first research, it was only us. And we wanted to understand that there’s a lot of, I think the consumer wants this, I think the consumers think about this and we are not so sure. We’re not sure we have to interview people, have to talk to people to really understand.

In the first two editions of the research, we did as a TASI, we called All About Incentives. We, we were frequently called TASI. And when the third edition last year we started a conversation with our bank is the main association as you said, and there, we were very open about the idea where that we bring together this survey.

So we went, we joined forces and it was amazing to work together. They’re very nice to work with and we have the same objective. We have the same goals because they wants to do the market grow. So as we, so why not join forces? So right now. Right now we did this last edition together. It was a great opportunity for the market itself.

Paula: Indeed. Absolutely. And again, just for anybody who is very interested in the loyalty market in Brazil again, we’ll make sure to link to the Brazilian Loyalty Association. The acronym is A-B-E-M-F. So I’ll try and pronounce the Portuguese version, Associação Brasileira das Empresas do Mercado de, no, I’m not even going to, I’m butchering it. So you’ll have to forgive me, but A-B-E-M-F. We all say ABEMF. 

Tatyane: We all say ABEMF. We all say ABEMF. 

Paula: Okay. Perfect. Great. Well, yeah, lots of great people I know there. And I know they do some great conferences and stuff. So, so very exciting to see, as you said, that commitment on both sides to growing loyalty in Brazil overall. So, so talk us through the research itself, Taty, then how many people did you survey and how did you survey them? 

Tatyane: It was more than 2000 Brazilians. We did the survey online and we asked almost 30 questions and we use some kind of attention tool to really understand if they are paying attention in the answers.

So every five questions, we do another question, really obviously questions like what’s the presence right now. And I think it’s the right way. If you’re doing a survey online survey, you’ll have to do this kind of thing. So you can be sure that people are really answering the question properly. 

Paula: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thinking through. 

Tatyane: Yeah. We presented this survey in September in the conference, but in the whole August, we collect these answers. And there’s a lot of great information that we all think we know I don’t think, you know. Sorry, I think there’s this information that the Brazil struggles with economics.

So if Brazil struggles with economics, our consumers only would care about earn and burn strategies like, oh, they want benefits, they want cash back, they want bounce back, they want discount. This is not a true information. When they look in the survey, you see that people they care about ESG strategy.

Paula: Okay. Good. Yeah. 

Tatyane: We have when you ask, for example what would make you choose this brand? And of course, the people, they say the quality of the products, of course, the people, they say free shipping and of course they want to have a great experience online and the brick and mortar stores, but the 20 percent, more than 20 percent said, I want to trust the company.I want, they have a ESG good strategy. 

And when you ask what makes you leave a brand and try another, more than 30 percent said, I will leave a company that I don’t trust. I will leave a company that don’t have a lot of ESG strategy. And even in the working class, even in the middle class.

Paula: Okay, interesting.

Tatyane: This thought that we have many people have, then people with the low income is only thinking about, how to get a discount is not necessarily right. Of course. I will be lying if I say that loyalty program is not important for people to get by in, in your economic. 

Paula: Yes, I was going to ask that, yeah. 

Tatyane: It is, it’s very important. It’s very important, but they, but I have to say that our consumers are very complex. Yes. Yes. They want to have its count. But they also care about experience. They also care about ESG. So we are very demanding here in Brazil.

Paula: I can hear it. So yeah. 

Tatyane: We’re very picky. Yeah. Yeah. And I was going to specifically ask you that Taty, because again, we featured a lot of research from different markets around the world on the show. And, you know, almost everywhere, in fact, be it the UK, be it South Africa, be it actually anywhere, there is a really increasing role, I would even say for loyalty programs to help balance the monthly household budget. So I’m not surprised at all to hear that in Brazil, which as you’ve said is economically challenged in many ways that loyalty programs have an incredibly strong role to play in Brazil with the consumers equally as they do in other markets.

So will you give our audience a sense Taty of the number of memberships versus the population? Because it’s it’s quite impressive to see actually how many, and I’m guessing this particular data came directly, of course, from the members of ABEMF. You know, in terms of the program owners, because this is, I suppose, the overall scale of the Brazilian loyalty market. But would you mind to share that? Because I thought that was super fascinating. 

Tatyane: It is. It is incredible. In 2023 Brazil reached over 300 million registrations in loyalty program out of a population of about 200 million people. 

Paula: Amazing.

Tatyane: It’s crazy. 

Paula: It is. 

Tatyane: It’s crazy good. It’s crazy good. 

Paula: Totally. 

Tatyane: It’s a 5 billion market. 

Paula: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Great. Yeah. No, I was going to ask, do you have any sense of memberships per person? Because obviously with a population of over 200 million I don’t have a sense of whether, you know, 20 million of them are engaged in loyalty because they’re in that demographic or 100 million. Do you have any sense of how many memberships per person or is that still something you’re looking to explore?

Tatyane: So, what our survey shows, and that 80 percent of the Brazilians join a loyalty program and almost 54 percent they are, they join at least three programs. They’re active in at least three  programs. And almost 20 percent they are active in almost five programs.

There’s one incredible number also that people that are engaged in loyalty programs here in Brazil, they look for information or how to redeem. They look in the app of the loyalty program at least once a week. And there’s the group that see the loyalty program a day, once a day, four times a week. So they’re very, when they are active, they are very engaged in the loyalty program.

Paula: Yes, for sure. Brilliant. So what else did you learn, Taty, in terms of, for example, if we talk about, you know, things like cashback, of course, are very popular around the world. How did it rank for you? And what other kind of rewards would people say they were looking for? You know, what was popular on the on the rewarding side to drive loyal behavior? 

Tatyane: It’s very interesting because they said cashback appeared to us as a main tool. I frequently say they are loyalty tools like cashback points, et cetera. So, cashback is the main one, but people also love to earning points.

But when you ask about what the answer you is, it’s experience. Experience is very important. So, but one thing that is very interesting when you rank this information, free shipping is the number one, free shipping. When you think what the factor that makes you most happy in a loyalty program is, and people say free shipping, 51 percent of them said, and faster shipping will appear also in the answers.

So, this shows that after the pandemic, we have these accelerate digitalized here in Brazil and lots of people that wouldn’t buy online starts to buy online and then logistic, oh, sorry, free shipping is became the, one of the main tools that are offered, and they’re really engaged with this.

What is interesting about Brazilian consumers also as they, yes they want to they look for loyalty programs to save money, but they also are available to spend more, to invest in a premium loyalty program, in a paid program, almost 20 almost 19 percent of our interviewers, they said, oh, I pay for a loyalty program. That’s okay, but they have to offer me benefits. I want something more. I want a better experience. I want to see this product first. I want free shipping and I want faster shipping.

Tatyane: So I have to be more important for you than the other consumers. So they are willing to pay for loyalty program without any, any problem.

Paula: Which is always great news. I think our challenge, which I think you’ve alluded to is of course, getting a value proposition that makes sense both to the business and the consumer as well. So, the idea of subscription based loyalty is something I think we all love but not everybody can do it in the same way that some of the giants do.

Of course, Amazon is the most famous for the free shipping, and I’m guessing because your panel was an online panel that of course, then it was e-commerce particularly in terms of the focus for this research. And I’m sure at some point you might try and do it in, in, you know, kind of bricks and mortar retailers as well over time, just to get a sense of what drives their loyalty, because actually, you know, there’s so much in it. But it’s wonderful to keep learning. 

So in my experience, and I think I can see this coming through in your research as well, loyalty is seen as less of a driver for this kind of e-commerce shopper. And because it might be just as you said, getting the basics, getting the free shipping, faster shipping, that’s driving the actual purchase behavior. But again, different verticals, different responses. So would you say that there was anything that really kind of struck you as surprising or something that you weren’t expecting even in terms of their benefits, it was great for me, for example, to see the, I suppose, you know, globally consistent research conclusion about, you know, wanting miles and points for airline tickets.

And I remember actually at the conference, The Loyalty and Awards Conference, I went to one of the speakers made the point that you know, the actual loyalty currencies are sometimes more stable than the Brazilian currency, which I remember being amazed by. So people really do kind of value loyalty points cause it’s something they can spend. And of course aspire to. 

But overall, Taty, in, in the research, was there anything that, that you weren’t expecting that came through that you thought was really important, particularly for the industry to, to pay more attention to? 

Tatyane: Sure. There’s something here. But before I want to get data right. 75, almost 75 percent of our parties, members of loyalty programs, they access the program once a week. But if you look for people, that look in the loyalty program daily, this number is 26 percent daily. And three times a week is 24%. I just want to get this fact right.

Paula: Sure.

Tatyane: One thing that makes me I thought it was very interesting in this research is how many people want to aspirational benefits. Not only traveling is very important, of course but the hotel industry is very important to consumers and to when we have an interesting question in the end of the survey is what loyalty can do for you? 

Because, you know, in the behavior economics, you know, that we can change behavior using loyalty strategy. So, and we asked what more loyalty can do for you and they said, Oh, I want they teach me how to be organized to travel. I want they to teach me how to be more healthy. I want loyalty to teach me how to contribute with the environment. So this, I thought it was very interesting. So it’s, come together with the information that we know that it’s not about only about points, rewards and benefits. People want more. 

Paula: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They want to live their best lives. And I was going to pick up on that question actually specifically, cause I think it was one of my favorite from what you shared with me and of course, for anyone listening, because we don’t speak Portuguese. Although I’m sure you’ll share the full version of the research in Portuguese. We also have, I suppose, a couple of pages of just summaries of the key learnings which is in English. So we’ll make sure to to link to that in the show notes. And of course, if anybody wants to even reach out to me to request that as well, I’ll make sure to send it over.

But I even liked the fact that a lot of them were saying that they would love their loyalty program to teach them how to develop their own financial planning so that they can achieve their dreams. Because actually, yes, all the aspiration of travel is all well and good, but sometimes it’s unrealistic if you don’t have, you know, the basic kind of education for your family or whatever. So definitely they see a lot in terms of what the loyalty program can do for them. 

Tatyane: Exactly. It’s like closing a gap, which unfortunately we don’t have here in Brazil in our educational system. The economics part when children are in school, it’s like. How to be organized with your finance. We don’t have this yet. We hope to get there. And so they see in the loyalty program an opportunity to learn how to do this. Isn’t travel is important, hotels are important, but they said also about studies. I want to graduate. How do I organize my finance to get there? 

Paula: Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. And then future trends, Taty, I know you’ve already talked about there being an appetite actually at all levels or all demographics more correctly for maybe a subscription based program. So the concept is something that you’ve said is appealing in principle, again, as long as the value proposition is there, were there any other kind of insights again, just as we, you know, start to demote her through 2024, what do you think other trends we need to be thinking about as loyalty professionals, either in Brazil or even more broadly around the world, if you’ve seen any.

Tatyane: Yeah, this is very interesting because of course we have to pay attention to the new technology. Of course we have to use the best AI to bring some ease to the operation programs. But there are some basic things that we have to pay attention first. For example, omni channel strategy, almost 80 percent of Brazilian consumers want to have an integration experience between e-commerce and brick and mortar stores. They want this. They want some ease between e commerce and the experience in the brick and mortar, of course. 

And another thing, everybody’s talking about ESG, but we see a lot of environment stuff. The E is very used, but not everybody is thinking about the G. 

Paula: The governance. Yeah. 

Tatyane: Yeah. Because in our research this factors, this impact the purchase is all about trust. So before you can show that you’re doing an ESG strategy, people have to trust, people have to believe that you’re not greenwashing.

Paula: Yeah. So you have to build trust.

Tatyane: You have to talk to people to, to start a conversation. And when people trust you, then you can do your loyalty strategy linked with an ESG strategy. 

Paula: Yeah. And to go back to your point earlier, Taty, what I’m hearing is that Brazilian consumers are very empowered, very aware, and very high expectations. And I think like most countries now around the world over time, they’ve realized that there’s, you know, brands that may say one thing. But behave in a different way. So I think consumers are increasingly paying attention to that governance, as you said. So is this brand, you know, making environmental or social commitments but are they delivering on them? So it’s one thing to have, you know, a mission statement or, you know, big, big ideas, but then what do you do day to day or week to prove to your members or to your consumers that’s exactly what you believe in as a brand. 

I think there is an increasing responsibility on loyalty professionals to make sure that’s both being done and being communicated, because at the end of the day, there’s no point doing it unless people have a sense of appreciation when milestones are being achieved and things are being put in place. So would that be a fair summary? Would you say? 

Tatyane: Exactly. Exactly. 

Paula: Amazing. 

Tatyane: Another point is very interesting here. And I think it’s important for to, to people that are building loyalty programs in all around the world search for simplicity. I know we will do is of course, you know, we know there is, there’s a lot of things. We, we used to, to have this conversation here that we are hub of knowledge. We have to build teams that with diverse knowledge because it is complex. But the information that is getting into the audience has to be simple, has to be simple. 

So I’m always worried when I see a loyalty program that I like as a consumer and they start to building one layer, and then another layer and then another layer. I’m working in this segment and I’m not getting what they doing, then I put myself in a place of the normal in cold, normal consumer. 

Paula: Yeah. Absolutely.

Tatyane: How can they understand what we’re doing? If you’re not doing in a simple way, of 

Paula: Of course.

Tatyane: We have to deliver a simple. 

Paula: Totally.

Tatyane: Yeah. And right now. Other important thing is we’re fighting for attention. The attention of the, of the, of our audience. Is very, I is important. But everybody that has a lot of apps in their smartphones, everybody has a lot of things to do. We have families, we have something to study, we have entertainment. And loyalty is another one. So if you not able to be relevant . You’re not getting there, you’re not getting there. 

Paula: Totally. Yeah. 

Tatyane: So I think it’s important to say that companies always want loyalty, but not always they want to build relationships. And you have to build relationship first.

Paula: And good to hear that your members and your respondents definitely said they do want the relationships. It’s not just about the cashbacks and the discounts that they do aspire to, the recognition piece and, you know, really being able to connect with the brand, as you said, with shared values, as well as just generally being, I suppose, acknowledged for the business that they bring to the programs that they patronize. Yeah. 

Tatyane: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly what they’re saying. They’re saying this to us. We have to listen. We have to pay attention and listen.

Paula: Totally. Wonderful. Well, great that you’re listening, Taty. And I’m sure everybody listening to this show is very grateful for the work that you’ve done. I know it was the third year of the research, so no doubt you’ll continue to grow year to year and bring more insights.

So that’s all of the questions I have from my side. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention for our audience around the world before we wrap up? 

Tatyane: Yeah, I want to share something that we’re doing here about KPIs. 

Paula: Okay. 

Tatyane: And something that I, that we always want to share with the companies that we work with is don’t be mistaken for, oh, my company has 10 millions of followers on social media or my loyalty program has 10 million members. But sometimes we have 10 million, 10 million members and only 1 million is active. 

Paula: Yeah, of course.

Tatyane: One million is really engaged in the program. So what is the real KPI? Was it really matter to measure? Yeah. And we are back to our statement. Their loyalty is a business strategy. We have to pay attention in the core business. 

So for example, if a company is struggling with the image and they have to build reputation again. So, the KPI for this company is advocacy, as referral is people engage in social media. And if you think about other company that, oh, I need to grow, I need to grow and I need to grow right now for this company, increasing sales would be the KPI. So, what I want to say, there’s not a magical number. There’s not a magical, what is important for your company is important for, it’s not important for others.

Paula: Yeah. Absolutely.

Tatyane: We have to stop building loyalty program just because our competitor has one, we have to build loyalty programs because we have it’s important for our audience. Our audience wants this, and it’s based on this, we have to build a loyalty program.

And to finalize, I always say something that is important to me is churn doesn’t begin when the client leaves, when the consumer leaves. Sure happens when you stop a conversation, you have to have a conversation, have to build communities to have a conversation with the audience. If you’re not talking about the things that are important to our consumers, they will leave. They don’t leave your brand. 

Paula: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. They don’t decide overnight to leave. They probably evaluate and we know they evaluate their relationship and their experience from the day they join, nevermind the day they leave. So that’s when the churn risk begins and that’s when we really need to start taking care of them and being loyal to them. So yes, I know that’s come through in a lot of research as well around the world, that it isn’t about, you know, experience members unless we have first demonstrated it to them. So I guess to use your words, it’s loyalty as a business strategy. So, so thank you for those final comments. 

So I will make sure, of course, to link to your profile. As we’ve talked about the conclusions in English and of course the Portuguese version and I want to say thank you. I know English isn’t your first language, so not the easiest for me to be quizzing you and and it’s not your native language. So really want to thank you for the work that you’ve done and through reaching out to Let’s Talk Loyalty so we can share this with our global audience. 

So Taty Macedo, Head of Marketing at Valuenet, thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty.

Tatyane: Thank you very much.

Paula: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketer Group, publisher of The Wise Marketer, the premier digital customer loyalty marketing resource for industry relevant news, insights, and research. Wise Marketer Group also offers loyalty education and training globally through its Loyalty Academy, which has certified nearly 900 marketeers and executives in 49 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals. 

For global coverage of customer engagement and loyalty, check out thewisemarketer.com and become a wiser marketeer or subscriber. Learn more about global loyalty education for individuals or corporate training programs at loyaltyacademy.org. 

Paula: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. If you’d like us to send you the latest shows each week, simply sign up for the Let’s Talk Loyalty newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com. And we’ll send our best episodes straight to your inbox. And don’t forget that you can follow Let’s Talk Loyalty on any of your favorite podcast platforms. And of course, we’d love for you to share your feedback and reviews. Thanks again for supporting the show.