Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and also Loyalty TV. If you work in loyalty marketing, you can watch our video interviews every Thursday on www. loyalty. tv. And of course, you can listen to our podcasts, every Tuesday, every Wednesday, and every Thursday to learn the latest ideas from loyalty experts around the world. Today’s episode is part of The Wiser Loyalty series, which is hosted by our partners, The Wise Marketer Group. The Wise Marketer Group is a media, education and advisory services company providing resources for loyalty marketers through The Wise marketer digital publication and The Loyalty Academy program that offers the certified loyalty marketing professional or CLMP designation. I hope you enjoy this weekly podcast, The Wiser Loyalty Series brought to you by Let’s Talk Loyalty and The Wise marketer Group.
Aaron: Hi everyone. You’re back again with our loyalty Smee’s, uh, and executive faculty members from the Loyalty Academy, Myself, Aaron Dauphinee. I’m the CMO of The Wise Marketer Group and my colleague, our CEO of The Wise Marketer Group, Bill Hanifin. Bill, how are you today this week? Doing well. Doing
Bill: great. How
Aaron: are you? I’m also doing well.
Thanks for asking. Perfect. Let’s dive in quick so we can dive into the content because I think this is going to be an interesting, interesting back and forth volley, I think, because the way that we’ll talk about how we tackle today’s episode and for those who are joining us for the first time, you know, we tackle perspectives and constructs from our little academy curriculum for the Certifiability Marketing Professional Designation.
CMP designation that we have through the academy and every month we cover a core course. And this month we are covering the little team member communications course, which is our course, 110 and and really what we’re looking at is, um, you know, when we, we talk about, uh, the weekly episodes, we’re honing in on constructs or ideas or topics, whichever term you want to use, um, that we have some expertise in because of the curriculum, but then also applying our practical knowledge and industry experience.
As well, to, uh, to talk about some of the advantages and that’s what we’re going to talk about this week is specifically is advantages in communicating with customers that have become members of your loyalty programs. So, um, Bill, what are your thoughts from from last week? And then maybe dive into this 1,
Bill: it’s just a quick sidebar and mixed metaphors.
You know, we were just talking about how we both want to join the U. S. Open tennis, Washington tennis. So we’re talking about volleying the topic back and forth. But when you started talking about tackling, You know, American football started last night and I got to say, I did my, I did my best to avoid it.
100%. So, um, yeah, so we’re, we’ll stay on the volleying and the, the back and forth of, of, of racket sports for this, but, um, no, you know what to be. To be fair, we talked about AI last week. And so that is admittedly a shiny ball sort of a topic. And we focused on some use cases for artificial intelligence, loyalty, marketing, communication.
So that was a really great topic. There’s so much to that, and I thought we hit some, some high points. There’s pretty good. But I thought this week, we could go back and hit the ball back to the other side of the court. There you go and highlight a couple areas of advantage to communications through loyalty program have over just about any other part of your marketing mix.
So, they’re very specific things we can do through marketing, communications and loyalty programs and. I think there are 4 different areas, so why don’t you grab the 1st 1? Sure.
Aaron: Yeah, I like this idea, Bill. And I think, um, I think it really didn’t get down quickly to the 4 areas of clear advantage. And of course, there’s, there’s more than that that we talk about in the course curriculum, but, but I think there’s more that we can kind of keep to the timelines that we have here in terms of this podcast episode.
So, and when I think about it quickly, if I just highlight in a word, what those 4 advantages are for each of them, it’s permission. It’s knowledge, it’s insight and its purpose. Those are the 4 advantages that come from having a loyalty program and being able to communicate to members through that loyalty program.
Um, and so maybe I’ll open with starting with the 1st 1, which is, uh, permission. So, uh, you know, with a loyalty program, um, your customers are signing up to be a member and and now they have. Into your program, and they are agreeing to some form of communication from you. Like, that’s really the point of having a loyalty program in the 1st place.
They have given you their consent to, um, modify or to, um, moderate and take a look at their activities and behaviors to track them and measure them. And, of course, to have conversations with the brand as a result, that’s the point of them raising their hand and certainly with the rising depths of. Of data privacy requirements that we’re seeing brands in certain regions definitely need to adhere to some level more of sophistication or leveling up in the degree in which they’re able to communicate or the substances and the channels of which they communicate when they provide customers with choice.
And and by that, what I mean is. Um, just because you have a program and ask them for permission to have a conversation. Now, we’re seeing the next level to say, well, what would you like to have a conversation on? That’s what I’m talking about. Leveling up or segmenting or putting some sophistication into the choice in terms of how they’ll interact with the brand and brands will say, hey, that’s that’s not good.
I actually think it is because the customer is already talking to you about how they wish to interact with you. They’re giving you some breadcrumbs along the way of permission in terms of the types of conversations that they want to have with you and where you can have relevant interactions with them.
So, you know, it’s, it’s, this is a good thing, uh, but a loads program by design inherently fundamentally at the end of the day, it gives you the permission to have this dialogue and to interact.
Bill: That’s something. So build on the idea of gaining access to. To the to the information that customers have. Um, being able to create some relevant moments in those communications is the idea of knowledge.
And I guess it’s probably accurate to say, if you have opt in, if you have permission, you have knowledge, or you can generate some knowledge. If you don’t, you have anonymity. So it’s, it’s. You know, a lot of things you try to stay away from sort of a binary approach to it, but I think it’s very much that way.
Right? If you have opt in, you can build knowledge and. I think these days we know one of the one of the prime, um, criticisms or suspicions that consumers have of loyalty programs is that we’re collecting the brands are collecting. Information and data about them without specifying their purpose. So, they’re, they’re amassing knowledge, they’re amassing data, but they’re not really clear about what they’re going to do with it.
So, you know, the, the nature of the loyalty program is that we do collect a lot of information. Um, gosh, we, we pile it up and I think 1, we’ve shown that we can Excel at collection. We haven’t shown that we can Excel it. And using it in a really smart way all the time, but to me, you know, 1 of the 1 of the things that I think that we should really think about is.
Is making it really clear and maybe improving the whole give and take value proposition with our consumers. If we make it really clear to them about what we’re going to collect and why we’re collecting it, what we plan to do with it. Because you know what? Honestly, I think most consumers, if you are very clear with them and said.
We’re asking you for these 4 fields of information and you might wonder why. You know, some people, I think, would be afraid, like, oh, if you start talking to them, they’re going to opt out right away. Well, no, on the other hand, I think they might be suspicious and not opt in. But if you actually tell them the reason we’re collecting these things is, it’ll help us serve you better.
It’ll help us understand your, your core interest. You know, uh, where you are, as in a life stage, um, just just what your day to day life, what kind of things could really help you out time convenience money, you know, what’s most important to you. So I think that transparency is is really important. So if you want to build knowledge.
Yeah, it’s going to be data fueled, but how do you do it in an elegant way where you keep customers really close to you and you feel like that value proposition is balanced? I’d say is that that that disclosure of what you’re going to collect and what you plan to do with it.
Aaron: Yeah, I would just to add on that really quickly in terms of adding knowledge is 1 thing for them to hear it from you in terms of your speak of of here’s how we’ll utilize the data.
I’ve seen some successful brands utilize customer testimonials in this fact, where they’ve. Uh, literally walked the customer through. Here’s why we’re collecting these four fields using the example that you put into play, uh, four fields of information. Here’s how we did it with Bill. And here’s the result of the offer that are the content that we sent to Bill.
Here’s Bill’s response. Oh, here from Bill and Bill has a testimonial. Now that comes a slippery slope of it has to be genuine and actually from customers in terms of, of actually effectiveness. Because you don’t want to have it corporatized and just made up as, as foe. It needs to be authentic for sure.
But that then leads us into this idea of knowledge of moving into insights, right? And so, uh, for me, I think that’s the, the third advantage that you get, uh, with having a loyalty program and being able to communicate through your loyalty program. Um, because it’s one thing to have a lot of data and information on someone, but there needs to be some level of, of let’s call it rigor in place.
Uh, when you’re utilizing this information, uh, to get to a point where you’re understanding, All of the behavioral tendencies of your member as it relates to your brand. And so, um, you know, that goes beyond just the collection of basic information and, and transactional to actually being, um, uh, mindful and, and somewhat, um, having some gray matter synapses come into play to say, Hey, what’s the observational truth that we can utilize with this data to, to the point that you made about being knowledgeable.
Now it’s, now it’s actioning it through, through insight. And for anyone in our loyalty industry. You know, this is a bit of an obvious Eddie moment. We’re not shocking you with it, with this particular one, because that’s, this is why we do it, right? Like, this is, this is the point of today’s episode is, you know, to offer, I think, to brands that maybe don’t have a customer program that are listing.
Um, and, and I’m switching here, uh, my language intentionally to say customer program versus ultimate program, uh, because I’m not suggesting that. Every brand must have a formalized traditional loyalty program offering like the constructs of loyalty supersede and can come into customer solutions and customer programs.
But what I am suggesting is that the tenants of loyalty of the loyalty marketing discipline part of me do need to be utilized to have strong, sticky impact to get to your best customers. And so this really requires an ability or method of collecting data that can be utilized effectively. And in a timely relevance, or pardon me, and in a timely way to get to create relevance.
And so, um, I mean, this doesn’t mean you need all the data under the sun necessarily, I would say, but it does mean you need to have systems and methods in place to capture, to analyze, interpret, and then formulate in either in response or proactively content and offers that rise up for members, uh, what the, uh, That the brand is actually recognizing them and recognizes their needs and is providing relevancy in the relationship.
So, you know, a quick example here is that comes to mind is Burger King, which has done a masterful job of app based promotions. I mean, it’s been combined with mass media to drive people to the apps adoption and use, but they have utilized the foundations of loyalty discipline and how they’re driving consumer behavior changes, but they don’t have a formalized.
Point space discount program. So this is what I’m talking about from when I say customer program, and there’s a number of examples, but my favorite one real quick is is in Mexico. The app has been utilized to locate cars using GPS, obviously, and through the delivery mechanism, which is very common in Mexico on motorbikes.
Um, they’re able to actually deliver like bike couriers are actually able to deliver food to drivers that are stuck in heavy, heavy Mexican highway traffic, maybe not even a half of it, congestion. And so imagine it, you’re on your way home, you’re starving, you’re getting hangry. Burger King can solve your needs, right?
And so in doing this once, and I think this is the key thing in doing this twice. Once they now have the ability to predict where you might be on certain days and certain times because they know your route. They know even what it’s not just what you’re purchasing, but it’s more about when you’re purchasing and where whereabouts you’ll be purchasing.
Potentially, um, they know that you have that similar need that hunger pain to be resolved. And so now they can start to push you offers that induce you to repeat, which is the point of loyalty. So, um, and again, there’s much there’s other examples with with Burger King that they’ve come into place. But then that’s just 1 example for today that I wanted to leave with you.
The all with,
Bill: you know, Aaron, um, one, one thing more than almost anything sticks out to me that you might want to explain and justify to the consumer. And with your example, it’s proximity marketing, geolocation. You know, like, so many people think of all things, you’re going to turn my location services off and you’re probably missing out on certain things, but you don’t know, unless it’s told to you.
But that’s a great example of that truly met your need in a time of day. And in a moment when you. When you really wanted it, and, um, you know, so that that’s a great example and it might be a way to get people to say, why should I really turn those location services on? Like, you know, all you’re doing is tracking me.
No, actually, I’m going to probably. There’s a relevancy in it. There’s a lot of relevancy. You’re right. So. So it kind of relevancy kind of ties into this last one that we were thinking about, which is purpose. And, um, you know, it really gets down to the fact that you have to have a reason you a really purposeful reason when you talk to your customer, and for that matter, probably when you’re listening to them as well.
So, you know, when you think about the purpose of any loyalty program in their design, is it, you know, you’re trying to please customers and more times than not, their customers are raising their hand that are saying they want more from you. You know, they want to be known. They want some interaction. They actually want to have a relationship.
They want to establish something more than just the transactional nature that anybody could have. They want, and so they want meaningful connections. And so, you know, I think a key takeaway on the purpose idea is. If you’re going to have a communication of some sort, even for that matter, an email, a white mail, some kind of an outreach, a text message.
It should have a relevant or sort of meaningful purpose, uh, before it’s sent. And so it might go back to the top of what we talked about. If you’re going to collect the data, make sure you know what you’re going to do with it and have a purpose with it. Now, here’s the purpose. So, you know, instead of just creating more noise, and obviously there’s a lot of clutter and noise out there, the smartest thing to do probably is to be savvy about what you think is purposeful to the member.
Think about your own brand, what it means to them, uh, what kind of role you’re playing in somebody’s life and and sort of, um, filter out the communication, whether it’s a go or a no, based on whether it’s just self serving to me, the brand, or whether it’s actually something of interest to that customer that it’s going to quote, make their day, like, like, you’re working example.
So. You know, I think having purposes is wise and, um, um, and also, you know, I saw this just recently. There was a news item, um, about, um, tick tock. I think it was had shelved a program and they’re going to award people for posting more. And or, or spending minutes, I’m sorry, spending minutes in the channel.
They were going to actually award time spent in the channel. And there was such an outcry about that because it was a classic example of this is a behavior they were trying to motivate. That was great for Tik TOK, but it wasn’t necessarily good for their user base. And so, you know, it unfortunately took a regulatory body in the EU to step in and say, no, we don’t think you should do that every brand hopefully would have the self awareness and would have the idea of like, what’s our purpose and how do we do this where all parties are served?
Because at the end of the day. You as a customer, if you’re happy and you feel like there’s being purpose acknowledged, and there’s a reason for me to be part of your program, right? Makes my life better because I’m a loyalty program member, not just the same plus a bunch of noise. So that’s how I might make that distinction.
Aaron: Yeah, no, I agree. I think, um, you know, if you have, if you have knowledge, and the insight is working for you, and you’re purposeful in your mindset, you know, there’s, there’s little to no reason why your permissions. So putting all four of those together, um, should to communicate your permission to communicate shouldn’t come to an end.
So that’s just kind of my, my, uh, jovial way of tying up the four advantages that we think that, uh, local program communications have. So, um, uh, perhaps that’s where we should finish off for this week then, um, and that as always, uh, join us next week for our. Talk on loyalty member communications for the month.
Um, uh, we hope you find these interesting and useful starting points for ideation and, and other conversations. We only have so much time, so we can’t go into a ton of depth, but we just kind of skim the surface oftentimes. But, uh, hopefully they, as I said, they, they start to stimulate some, uh, elements of discussion or, or fodder back at the office or, or when you’re hanging out with other loyalty marketing professionals.
So have a great week, everyone. Join us next week and, and as always stay loyal. Thanks, Aaron. Thanks everyone for listening.
Paula: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketer Group, publisher of the Wise Marketer, the premier digital customer loyalty marketing resource for industry relevant news, insights, and research. Wise Marketer Group also offers loyalty education and training globally through its Loyalty Academy, which has certified nearly 900 marketers and executives in 49 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.
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