#318: Maxol Shares Loyalty Insights as European Convenience Retailer of the Year

PAULA: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.

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PAULA: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty, which is very close to my heart for several reasons.

PAULA: Firstly, my guest today shares the history and insights of building customer loyalty with Maxol, one of Ireland’s leading fuel, coffee, car wash, and convenience store brands in Ireland.

PAULA: Maxol has been operating at the heart of Irish communities for 102 years.

PAULA: And as you’ll hear, the business has an exciting history of creating innovative loyalty models and mechanics for many years.

PAULA: The group is now a fourth-generation family-owned business, a market leader, and it was celebrated and recognized for excellence internationally this year when it was named the European Convenience Retailer of the Year by industry body NACS.

PAULA: As well as its Irishness and its awards, Maxol are working closely with some great friends and a former client of mine, a loyalty technology company called Liquid Barcodes, who specialize in building loyalty programs in the convenience retail sector.

PAULA: So it’s really exciting for me to see their latest award-winning loyalty projects.

PAULA: Joining me for this conversation is CEO of Maxol, Brian Donaldson.

PAULA: I really hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

PAULA: So, Brian Donaldson, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

BRIAN: Thank you very much, indeed, Paula.

BRIAN: Been looking forward to this.

PAULA: Likewise, absolutely.

PAULA: The story of what Maxol is doing in loyalty is incredibly inspiring, Brian.

PAULA: So I know it’s still early days, but I’m super impressed with the approach that you’ve taken with your whole loyalty proposition.

PAULA: So we will have plenty of questions and stuff to chat about today.

PAULA: But before we get into the Maxol story, please do tell me, as you know, I always love to know your favorite loyalty program.

BRIAN: Yeah.

BRIAN: Look, when you live in a household with two girls, you’re sort of directed towards a certain area of loyalty.

BRIAN: I think the most favorite one we have in our household is Boots Advantage Card.

BRIAN: And again, I think it comes down to the fact that you get really good value when you stay loyal with boots.

BRIAN: You get four points for every pine that you span, so you’re getting a 4% discount.

BRIAN: That’s big value when you’re buying cosmetics and health care products.

BRIAN: I also like the way that they use social media for these special promotions where at times if you span 50 pints in certain products, they’ll give you a thousand points, which is another 10 pints, which you can use to buy another product.

BRIAN: I just like the style of communication.

BRIAN: It’s very simple.

BRIAN: I think that’s what I like about it.

BRIAN: It’s not overly complicated.

BRIAN: You know what the value is.

BRIAN: It’s very straightforward to redeem those points and also one thing I would say is whether you shop online or whether you actually shop in person and physical stores, the customer service is also good.

BRIAN: So that’s how we sort of view it.

BRIAN: So I’d have to say, Boots Advantage Card is probably number one in our household, but recently would have been followed by another, which would be Tesco Club Card.

BRIAN: I think they’ve been quite ingenious in terms of how they have adapted their loyalty scheme, where they give better value to their members.

BRIAN: And we’re going into a very difficult time in the economy, not only in the UK, but also in Ireland.

BRIAN: So people want to seek out that value.

BRIAN: And I think that’s where loyalty schemes, particularly loyalty online and where you can instantly see that value, people will be attracted towards it.

BRIAN: And particularly if you go in store, you can buy this item for 10 pounds, but if you’re a club card member, you’ll get it for six.

BRIAN: Me, that’s going to accelerate more people to shop within Tesco.

BRIAN: And also I think people appreciate the fact that they genuinely are getting value.

BRIAN: And I’ve been a long time in this business.

BRIAN: Loyalty becomes more important when you get into difficult economic times.

BRIAN: Whenever our economy is booming, people are less focused in terms of discounts and rewards.

BRIAN: So the timing of our own loyalty scheme is absolutely perfect.

BRIAN: Because one of the things that we want to be doing over the next 12 months is how we get better value to the Maxol loyalty customers.

BRIAN: And we’ve been studying lots of loyalty over the years, and we’ve done lots of loyalty over the years ourselves as technology has evolved.

BRIAN: And our view, and we’ve already started to trial this, is give discounts within the convenience range of goods that we have within our stores.

BRIAN: From our biscuits range, to our bread range, to our fresh and chilled range, to our take-home meal solutions.

BRIAN: And the acceleration in redemptions is phenomenal.

BRIAN: You know, the percentages are well over 800%.

BRIAN: So that tells me people are really looking for value.

PAULA: They really are.

PAULA: My goodness, there’s so many points to pick up on Brian.

PAULA: Really, it is going to be, I think, a masterclass in loyalty just having this conversation because you’ve done so much study on it.

PAULA: And again, as you said, you’ve been doing it, practicing it, and I know you’ve been researching globally within the industry.

PAULA: We talked before we came on air about the fact that Ireland particularly has an exceptional reputation in terms of particularly convenience retail.

PAULA: And as somebody from Dublin myself, who spent many years working with Liquid Barcodes as well, I just think it’s extraordinary to see Ireland really punching above its weight.

PAULA: And I loved your perspective on that.

PAULA: I’ll ask you to talk about that maybe in a second.

PAULA: But just before we move on from the two favorite case studies that you mentioned there, Brian, for me, Boots, as you said, they do everything so well.

PAULA: But particularly for me, what stands out is the experience at the point of sale.

PAULA: And I know what’s something that you’ve applied as well in the Maxol Loyalty program and strategy.

PAULA: And I think anyone who’s ever been in a Boots store has of course been, first of all, impressed with the fact that it’s always something that the guys just seem to believe in.

PAULA: They actually do kind of recommend the Advantage program.

PAULA: And as soon as you have a reward that’s available to use, they’ll offer it and apply it instantly.

PAULA: So closing the loop is an exceptional experience with Boots and we’ve had them on the show.

PAULA: So we’ll make sure to link to that in the show notes in case anybody wants.

PAULA: And then of course Club Card from Tesco.

PAULA: As you said, it’s another masterclass.

PAULA: We haven’t yet had them on Let’s Talk Loyalty, but really great to see that they’ve inspired you along the journey.

PAULA: So let’s just get into, I suppose, first of all, Ireland and its convenience industry, Brian, because that’s just a starting point for, I suppose, the standard of what you’ve had to build in order not just to be the best now in the Irish market, but the best going forward, because it’s a very ambitious country.

PAULA: So I’m quite sure you’ve got a plan to stay ahead of everybody.

PAULA: Yeah?

BRIAN: Yeah.

BRIAN: Look, we’re 102 years in business, we’re a family business.

BRIAN: So we always tend to take a more medium to longer term view in terms of investments.

BRIAN: And we’ve been on, probably in the last 10 years, we’ve made significant change in pivoting our business.

BRIAN: Traditionally, we would have been seen as a quality fuel retailer.

BRIAN: And what we have pivoted is now being seen as a quality forecourt convenience retailer with a big focus on coffee, fresh food, and also introducing food franchises.

BRIAN: And fuel is becoming more secondary in terms of what we mean for our customers.

BRIAN: And I suppose, look, we’re trying to prepare ourselves for the day whenever internal combustion engine vehicles are banned.

BRIAN: All new cars within Europe and the UK and Ireland for ICE, petrol or diesels are banned from 2030.

BRIAN: Hybrids are going to be banned from 2035.

BRIAN: So we have to start replacing that lost income from fuel.

BRIAN: And that’s why we have been investing very heavily in terms of our own Maxol shop concept in the Republic of Ireland.

BRIAN: And we judge our success by how we perform in global convenience awards programs.

BRIAN: And this year we were absolutely blown away whenever we won European retailer of the year by NACS, National Association of Convenience Stores in the States.

BRIAN: And for the team, that was an amazing accolade.

BRIAN: And it was a tremendous pat on the back.

BRIAN: But that’s nice, but our results have actually shown that what we have invested in has worked.

BRIAN: And we’re probably only at the early stages of where we would like to go to.

BRIAN: Two weeks ago, we held our first annual in-person staff event, where we launched our new strategic plan up to 2027.

BRIAN: And that was really sort of building on the good foundations that we’ve already put into our business.

BRIAN: And there’s a big focus now looking at how we continue to improve our coffee offering, how we continue to improve our food service offering, how we actually can introduce more products into our stores, how we can encourage more local producers to come into the supply chain.

BRIAN: Because I’m a great believer, we’re a family business, we work with families, we serve families, our businesses are run by families.

BRIAN: We should be supporting the domestic economy.

BRIAN: And particularly when you’re going into such a difficult economic times, even more there’s a need to do that.

BRIAN: And in conjunction with Champion Green, which is supporting locally, it was a campaign set up about two years ago.

BRIAN: We hope to be bringing in a number of new suppliers and giving them exclusive space within our stores in the South of Ireland to sell their products.

BRIAN: And again, it’s another way of creating a point of difference.

BRIAN: Because as you said earlier, the standard not only by us in terms of Maxol, but the standard by our competitors, is phenomenal.

BRIAN: And we are no longer competing just in the forecourt convenience sector.

BRIAN: We’re competing with those symbol brands on the high street and those without fuel.

BRIAN: We’re competing with the quick service restaurants.

BRIAN: We’re competing with the costas of this world in terms of their standalone coffee hubs and so forth.

BRIAN: So the bar is indeed extremely high.

BRIAN: And that’s why we have to be best in class.

BRIAN: And to do that, it takes a lot of investment.

BRIAN: It takes the right people with the right skills, but also you need to have a point of difference.

BRIAN: And one of the things we have been trying to do, and I think you mentioned this in terms of the complete circle in terms of boots, in terms of that experience and how their staff are so well trained and how they believe in what they’re doing.

BRIAN: We put a phenomenal amount of time and effort into that as well.

BRIAN: But we work hand in glove with them in terms of giving them the right tools and the training.

BRIAN: And we make all of that upfront investment in terms of technology.

BRIAN: And we run regular webinars in terms of things that are being launched.

BRIAN: And we create the point of sale in conjunction with their guidance and advice too.

BRIAN: So my view over the next two years, economic times are going to probably change consumer behaviors again, and we have to be able to adapt to those.

BRIAN: And as mentioned earlier, that’s why I think Tesco Club Karn are going to remain very relevant, certainly within the big shop sector.

BRIAN: That’s how we can take the learnings from what they’re doing to encourage people to stay local, support local, if we can give them that value back.

BRIAN: So look, I think like anything in life, people can see it as a challenge.

BRIAN: Personally, we see it as an opportunity because in the last five years, as a family business, we’ve invested over 100 million euros on the island of Ireland in upgrading our assets and the experience, the look and feel.

BRIAN: One of the big areas we really have focused in is washrooms or seating areas, also in terms of lighting.

BRIAN: But also before we get on to what we’ve been doing with our new loyalty app is technology.

BRIAN: We’ve all come through 30 months of having to deal with the pandemic.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: If we hadn’t have made that investment before the pandemic came in in March 2020, it would have been very challenging for us to run our business.

BRIAN: Because we’d made that investment, we were able to stay in touch real time with all of our retailers.

BRIAN: We were able to track everything that was happening within our business.

BRIAN: And then we were able to make hopefully informed decisions to support our retailers through those very tough times.

BRIAN: So technology is a big part of what we’re going to do going forward and hence why we launched our own loyalty app.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Well, we’ll certainly get into that story now, but it would be remiss if I didn’t congratulate you.

PAULA: First of all, on the 102 years, I mean, there’s people listening to this show all over the world, Brian, and that’s just a remarkable achievement.

PAULA: So you’ll probably hold that record, I think, for a long time.

PAULA: So that’s incredible.

PAULA: And I know you’ve been there a long time as well, Brian.

PAULA: So I think that says a lot for the family and for the brand.

PAULA: So that’s incredibly exciting to see.

PAULA: And then of course, the NACS award.

PAULA: As I said, I mean, I know how hotly contested it is because NACS literally has a whole continent to choose from.

PAULA: I think from memory, there’s only three or four awards given in the whole continent every year.

PAULA: So for Maxol to get that, again, it’s absolutely extraordinary.

PAULA: So times of celebration, as you said, in the midst of lots of other chaos going on, but the focus on loyalty, I think, does come through.

PAULA: And it becomes extremely important.

PAULA: And I’m pretty sure your loyalty initiatives will be up for some awards as well.

PAULA: So we’ll talk about that another time.

PAULA: But so listen, let’s get into the history of the thinking of loyalty, Brian.

PAULA: Again, you’ve been with Maxol for a long time.

PAULA: So what kind of loyalty initiatives have you run over the years?

BRIAN: Yeah, look, I joined the way back in the late 80s.

BRIAN: I’m not going to give you the specific year.

BRIAN: I came straight into this business as a graduate trainee who had done, who really wanted to be a charter accountant.

BRIAN: But anyway, I didn’t finish my exams to do that.

BRIAN: But really, our business has always been in loyalty in some form.

BRIAN: What are the initial projects we worked on?

BRIAN: And people on listening to this podcast might recall the days of the catalog promotions.

BRIAN: Of course.

BRIAN: Four courts or the fuel sector was was renowned for how do they build a loyalty, whether that was coin schemes for World Cups or card schemes.

BRIAN: I can remember working on a very first one towards the end of the late 80s called Maxol Magnet, where it was a paper based stamp scheme.

BRIAN: So I think if you spent five pounds on fuel, you got a stamp.

BRIAN: And if when you collected a certain number of stamps and filled a card, you could redeem that then for a gift in terms of what was there.

BRIAN: It initially started off with maybe a choice of no more than five to six items.

BRIAN: And those gifts would have been held actually on site.

BRIAN: It then moved into much bigger operations where we actually set up a redemption facility, where we then moved to a very large catalog and it presented the theme of choices for people.

BRIAN: And everyone tried to do everybody else.

BRIAN: So we had the most choice of gifts.

BRIAN: And again, it was still a stamp-based promotion and we outsourced it.

BRIAN: Another company managed the redemptions and so forth.

BRIAN: And that would have run right through until the mid 1990s, which would have been your traditional paper-based loyalty schemes.

BRIAN: Everyone will know the challenges of security, frauds and…

PAULA: Everything, yeah.

BRIAN: And also how you manage your redemption liability, your contingent liability, which you’ve got to provide for it because you actually don’t know what the cost is going to be until you actually close it down.

BRIAN: So we’ve had a lot of experience in terms of dealing with promotions.

BRIAN: Probably one of the most exciting ones we did was an initial trial with Marks and Spencer’s in Ireland way back in 1997, 1998.

BRIAN: When we were looking at closing down our paper-based promotion, we gave the option for our customers to take their full cards into Marks and Spencer’s stores and redeem those for a Marks and Spencer voucher for two pounds.

PAULA: Okay, wow.

BRIAN: It was such a success with Marks and Spencer’s.

BRIAN: They then agreed to become a partner with us in our next promotion, which was the first electronic promotion in Ireland.

BRIAN: So it actually moved away from stamps to electronic points.

PAULA: Wow.

BRIAN: And it was a standalone terminal, which linked into our PAWS system.

BRIAN: So we had much better security.

BRIAN: It was live and we were able to track it.

BRIAN: And what we did was there was three offers.

BRIAN: We partnered with Marks and Spencer.

BRIAN: We partnered with Argus and also we offered fuel back.

BRIAN: So this is where you could take your points and redeem those for a discount of Maxol fuel.

BRIAN: Yeah.

BRIAN: I have to say they were pretty equal in terms of redemptions.

BRIAN: Because I think if you can appeal to more people in terms of the choice of redemption, that’s a good thing.

BRIAN: Yeah.

BRIAN: But it worked extremely well.

BRIAN: And it put us away up there in terms of like, when you’re working with companies like Marks and Spencer’s and Argus, Yeah.

BRIAN: you know, it adds a lot of value to the promotion.

BRIAN: And also gives the customer fantastic choice without having to run a warehouse or even having to hold the codes and all of that hassle.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: You know, so it moved away from gift-based to value-based.

BRIAN: And our customers loved that.

BRIAN: But to be quite honest with you, we then got to a certain point where customers in the south of Ireland because of the Celtic tiger became less interested.

BRIAN: This goes back to my earlier point.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: Loyalty is important at a certain time, depending on the economy and where household budgets are.

BRIAN: So it started to tailor off and we then decided we’ll look, it’s tailoring off in the south.

BRIAN: And what we do as a business, we normally try to do in the island of Ireland, even though there are two different jurisdictions and different currencies and different VAT rates and everything.

BRIAN: We then closed it down on the island of Ireland, I think early 2002, 2003.

BRIAN: And we then didn’t go back into any national loyalty promotion until what we’re going to talk about now.

BRIAN: So we’ve had a long history and a long experience in understanding how loyalty can grow your sales.

BRIAN: But I think it’s important that people understand there is a big cost in running loyalty.

BRIAN: And it’s making sure that that cost is more than covered by the growth that you’re seeing through your business, through the users of those schemes.

BRIAN: And we’re a family business.

BRIAN: We’re very much P&L focused.

BRIAN: We measure and monitor everything.

BRIAN: And when things start to change, there’s no point continuing with the program unless it’s going to have value and benefit to the business.

BRIAN: And at that point in time, we didn’t think it was, and that’s why we withdrew from it.

BRIAN: But certainly, as I’ve said, we’re going into very different economic times.

BRIAN: And I think loyalty has been growing in importance certainly in the last two to three years again.

BRIAN: I think if there hadn’t been COVID, we probably would have launched our loyalty scheme much sooner rather than April this year.

BRIAN: And again, we’ve only launched it in the South of Ireland until we sort out some issues in the North of Ireland.

BRIAN: So that’s a little bit of our pedigree in terms of marketing.

BRIAN: We used to have a very large, well, not a very large, we used to have five or six dedicated people just managing and overseeing some of those large catalog electronic points-based promotions because you still need to be able to control it and you still need to be able to make sure the messaging is right and you’re running your special offers and how you’re keeping in touch with your customers.

BRIAN: And in those days, social media was nowhere near where it is today.

BRIAN: You had been using hard sheets, you had been using television, you had been using radio.

BRIAN: So even the forms of how you communicate for promotions is going to be very different today.

PAULA: And very expensive.

BRIAN: Very expensive.

PAULA: Well, I’m so glad you managed to find a clever and incredibly impressive way, actually beyond the need for the warehouse because that’s everybody’s worst nightmare, I think, in terms of the overhead required.

PAULA: And I think we’ve all witnessed it.

PAULA: And I do remember the days of catalogs and fuel stations in Ireland, of course, as a child as well.

PAULA: So I really didn’t realize it had to have that level of operation to make that work.

PAULA: So thank God you moved past.

PAULA: And I suppose just for people listening, Brian, I think what’s important to acknowledge as well in terms of those partnerships with Marks & Spencer and Argus is the incredible amount of respect that those two retailers have.

PAULA: So, I mean, I worked in loyalty, for example, Telefonica, back in the kind of, coming into the big crash, as we all know, 2008, 2009.

PAULA: But we always had that same approach of, let’s pick partners where there’s a halo effect, where everybody’s truly benefiting.

PAULA: And as you said, Maxol is so well known in the Irish market, but to be positioned with the best of the UK in terms of Marks and Spencers and Argus, I mean, there’s just immense credibility.

PAULA: And to get that operational and again, eliminate all the other overheads, that sounds like it should have been a case study, way before Let’s Talk Loyalty existed.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: But there were super people to work with.

BRIAN: They were very professional from the start until you actually wrapped up the promotions.

PAULA: Sure.

BRIAN: And we built a lot of friendship there.

BRIAN: That’s what business is.

BRIAN: You have to decide what’s right for your business at the right time.

BRIAN: And you have to be prepared to make that investment.

BRIAN: But you need the right partner.

BRIAN: And really, since then, we’ve done other smaller loyalty schemes where we’ve ran hotel weekend breaks as well.

BRIAN: Where we would have worked with some of the larger chains on the island of Ireland and if customers purchased or had a certain amount of spend, but that’s not just on fuel, but also on other items.

BRIAN: And I think that’s where it’s shifting the dial.

BRIAN: In terms of all of those promotions that I spoke about there, they were purely linked to fuel.

BRIAN: Where we’ve moved to now are much more focused in terms of what you spend in store.

PAULA: Yes.

BRIAN: And of course, what you spend on the forecourt.

BRIAN: But the big focus now is how we can encourage people to shop more with us in store.

BRIAN: And when you think about it, at best, if you are buying fuel, you might visit one of our sites twice a week for fuel.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: But what we’re finding within in-store, people might visit us twice a day.

BRIAN: Get that coffee or to get that breakfast or to get that lunch.

BRIAN: Or if you’re in good neighborhood locations, because of the range and choice that we now have within our store, there’s ready-made solutions to take home.

BRIAN: Yeah.

BRIAN: So that’s why we want to build on the good work that we’ve done.

BRIAN: To try to increase that from maybe an average of two to three or four.

BRIAN: And so effectively, we become the complete center of the community.

BRIAN: You know, whenever we were repositioning our business and we did a full brand all the way back in 2011 with an agency called New World in Dublin.

BRIAN: And Pat Kinsley is the owner, the director, the creative director there.

BRIAN: He told us some pretty harsh things about our business, you know, and my view is if that’s what customers are telling you, that’s what we have to work upon.

BRIAN: And that’s where we were perceived.

BRIAN: We were being described.

BRIAN: How would you describe Maxol as a brand of motor car and a Volkswagen?

BRIAN: Most people might be quite happy with a Volkswagen.

BRIAN: Very reliable.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: Very, very reliable, very trusted.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: But not terribly exciting.

BRIAN: We had to add a bit of excitement into the brand, the look and feel.

BRIAN: And that’s what started us on this journey.

BRIAN: And that happened in 2011.

BRIAN: We then launched our first new design, new concept in 2012, and it’s just evolved from there.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: So there are so many different aspects of what you need to be doing, particularly when you’re trying to drive a retail brand and a retail business ahead.

BRIAN: But it still fundamentally, Paula, comes back to the locations that you have and the space that you have.

BRIAN: If you don’t have the right locations, no matter what you do, it’s going to be a struggle.

BRIAN: And we spent a lot of time and effort, a lot of science, in terms of trying to pick the right sites.

BRIAN: Because really in the last 10 years, we probably have acquired over 25 new properties.

BRIAN: We would have invested in over 85 of our existing sites.

BRIAN: So it’s been a massive investment going back into reposition where we want to be.

BRIAN: And again, that goes back to us trying to prepare for the day when maybe fuel sales post 2030 or by 2035 may only be 50% or 40% of what they are today.

BRIAN: So all of these things combined will help to support the business in the future.

BRIAN: And loyalty, we believe, now is the right time to be really investing, to really be connecting, not just in terms of loyalty, but for services, also how you communicate and tell your story.

BRIAN: That’s why we’re starting this journey, which we will start to ramp up quite significantly over the next three to four years.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: Well, we’ll definitely get into talking about the proposition now in a minute, Brian, but just to pick up on the few things that landed there.

PAULA: I always think that loyalty has to follow getting the basics right.

PAULA: So I love the fact that you did the brand audit and you got the honest feedback and you were brave enough to hear what mightn’t have been easy to hear.

PAULA: At the end of the day, it really takes, I suppose, a brave brand to sit down and go, OK, yes, whatever.

PAULA: I’m sure there was plenty you were doing right at the time, but clearly there was a lot of room for improvement.

PAULA: And what was striking me as you were talking about the focus on obviously being the center of the community and a place where people can obviously spend more frequently is even the value proposition obviously had to change.

PAULA: Because, again, in my youth, we would not have gone to the local petrol station, as we would call it, to buy anything unless we literally were kind of stuck.

PAULA: Because I think my parents would have thought it’s probably overpriced.

PAULA: And definitely the washrooms wouldn’t have been great.

PAULA: It definitely wasn’t a destination unless you were kind of desperate.

PAULA: So you’ve had to reinvent, as you said, to make it a beautiful place to shop and somewhere people actually want to go and pick up a nice meal or a bottle of wine.

PAULA: Or I know you have a range of gin you mentioned as well before, which is my beverage of choice.

PAULA: So there’s a lot of work gone into fixing the basics.

BRIAN: Yeah, very much so.

BRIAN: Like in the early days, you might even remember the old movie in terms of the Christmas holidays with Chevy Chase.

BRIAN: Oh my God, we might even have to stop here and get a sandwich.

BRIAN: But those days are long gone.

BRIAN: Today, the consumer’s perception of modern day forecourt conveniences is at a high bar.

BRIAN: And Ireland has been very good at that.

BRIAN: And I think one of the key reasons for that is in population size, it’s relatively small.

BRIAN: And therefore volumes and forecourts are relatively small as well, compared to our counterparts in England or Europe, where you’ve got these large populations.

BRIAN: So we’ve always had to duck and dive and we’ve always had to find new ways of generating income.

BRIAN: And that’s where I think we got into convenience and food service much earlier.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: So there’s been a need to do it.

BRIAN: But also, I think even in terms of our culture and the psyche of the Irish people, we like to travel.

BRIAN: We’d like to go to different parts of the world.

BRIAN: And, you know, a good friend of mine, Henry Armour, out of NACS, always said, Brian, the future is already out there.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: It’s just not, you know, you need to go and find it.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: And then you can bring it back to your particular country.

BRIAN: And he’s absolutely right.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: You know, the precursor to what we have done now with Liquid Barcodes, followed a visit that I went to Hong Kong and Shanghai with a study group from NACS.

BRIAN: And I met Matt there from Liquid Barcodes.

BRIAN: And we’ve seen firsthand by Circle K and Hong Kong, the rally of their loyalty app and their program that they were running in Hong Kong.

BRIAN: It’s a very different market to Ireland, just even the density of the population.

BRIAN: And where they are in technology is way ahead of perhaps even where we are as a population in Ireland.

BRIAN: But that sowed the seed in my mind that we really had to get into it.

BRIAN: Some very key learnings where you’ve got to keep control of the promotion yourself.

BRIAN: You’ve got to stay very close to the communications.

BRIAN: You’ve got to decide when you want to run your special offers, what those special offers will be.

BRIAN: And it’s just having the right information, real time, to tell you what’s working, what’s not working.

BRIAN: And actually just seeing firsthand when we went around a good number of the Circle K stores, you could see the people using it.

BRIAN: And the thing that surprised me the most, maybe it shouldn’t have surprised me the most, was how important gamification was in Hong Kong.

BRIAN: People like to go in for a draw, people like to enter a competition to see what they can win.

BRIAN: And that was a big part of what they were doing.

BRIAN: But I think the surprising statistic for me was in Hong Kong, I think the price of milk is set by the government.

BRIAN: So therefore you can’t play tunes with it.

BRIAN: But they were able to run a promotion on milk, or would support the sales of milk.

BRIAN: And they held the highest market share for milk sales in Hong Kong.

BRIAN: And I’m sitting going, oh my goodness, how did you do that?

BRIAN: And that was just how they used their loyalty promotion.

BRIAN: To encourage people to visit their stores.

BRIAN: And to maybe give rewards in a slightly different way.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: You’ve reminded me I need to get Circle K from Hong Kong onto the show.

PAULA: Absolutely, Brian.

PAULA: I did write a couple of articles about all of their incredible work with Liquid Barcodes.

PAULA: I’m not sure if you know, I was the Chief Content Officer for three years.

PAULA: So I also have this incredible joy of looking at best use cases around the world.

PAULA: So again, we’ll link in the show notes to some of just the articles about that.

PAULA: And I love that approach, Brian, because I think Henry’s absolutely right.

PAULA: There are brilliant ideas out there.

PAULA: And of course, you can’t lift and shift them, but you can plant a seed and go, oh, gamification has a role to play.

PAULA: And how does that translate to an Irish consumer?

PAULA: So it’s going to be a completely different experience.

PAULA: But when I look at the Maxol proposition and the app you’ve built, I can see the elements and the learnings coming through, tailored to your customer base.

PAULA: So maybe you tell us a bit now about the Maxol app, Brian.

PAULA: What did you build?

PAULA: What did you prioritize?

PAULA: Because I know, first of all, the strategy is very holistic.

PAULA: And to me, that’s what I love.

PAULA: So the fuel pay proposition and the loyalty proposition, you have so many elements.

PAULA: So I’d love to understand your thinking and the way through.

BRIAN: Yeah, we spent a lot of time doing research and looking at different markets, different offers.

BRIAN: And what we try to do is identify each of those elements in different markets and by different loyalty programs, which we think would work within our market.

BRIAN: And what we want to try to do is to give better convenience to our customer.

BRIAN: And let’s be honest, the mobile phone is the third hand.

PAULA: Totally.

BRIAN: So what we wanted to do is to put Maxol’s retail window in the palm of your hand.

BRIAN: So it just wasn’t about giving rewards and loyalty.

BRIAN: It was about how we promoted our services.

BRIAN: How could we make your decisions easier?

BRIAN: So before I talk about the loyalty aspect of it and the rewards, which are fairly similar to many other programs out there, albeit them slightly tweaked differently.

BRIAN: For us, one of the first things we wanted to do was, how do we give more convenience for people to pay for their fuel?

BRIAN: We were one of the first companies in Ireland to put in pay at pump technology.

BRIAN: Because again, we see that mission or that shopper mission very different to going in store.

BRIAN: So we invested very heavily.

BRIAN: It’s quite expensive and whenever we put it into sites, we measured is there going to be a negative downturn in shop sales?

BRIAN: If anything, shop sales went up because…

PAULA: That’s amazing.

PAULA: That was exactly my question, Brian.

PAULA: How do you align what you’ve said earlier about the focus on in-store sales with the fact that you’re letting them not go in store?

BRIAN: You’re simply clearing congestion on the forecourt.

BRIAN: Those people who want to buy fuel want to get in and out quickly.

BRIAN: They don’t want to be stuck in a long queue with people with baskets of goods and it leads to a lot of frustration.

BRIAN: In the early days, you may recall people had fuel lanes, then to grocery lanes, but people don’t really read the signage and it becomes quite chaotic.

BRIAN: And it leads to a lot of aggravation.

BRIAN: And that’s not what you want to create.

BRIAN: So we decided we would trial it on about 10 locations.

BRIAN: So we paid all islands and we measured the shop sales.

BRIAN: Our fuel sales went up and our shop sales went up.

PAULA: Fantastic.

BRIAN: And then we then started to roll it out on an all-Ireland basis.

PAULA: Wow.

BRIAN: And that showed us that there really is a clear, different mission in the eyes of those wanting to buy fuel or car wash.

BRIAN: That’s what led us to pay a pump technology.

BRIAN: But also when you drive up to the car wash, you can tap your card and go.

BRIAN: You don’t need to go into the shop.

BRIAN: And the old teaching would have said, don’t do that.

BRIAN: You got to bring them in the shop for impulse.

BRIAN: For me, if you’re relying on impulse sales, you haven’t set your store up right.

BRIAN: You want people to come into your store as a destination because they know you’ve got the range.

BRIAN: It’s well-priced, good service, really nice environment.

BRIAN: They feel safe.

BRIAN: And it’s a pleasurable experience.

BRIAN: That’s where we have moved to.

BRIAN: So in talking about fuel pay, what we wanted to do on this was, again, to enable people to pay for their fuel using the app.

BRIAN: That was quite complicated in terms of setting up the back office systems, making sure that there was the right security and all of the controls that are required in that particular area.

BRIAN: So we worked very closely with Liquid Barcos, Opeo as well, and Tocheim, in making that actually happen.

BRIAN: And that is the first in Ireland.

BRIAN: So anyone who drives into our forecourt with the Loyalty app, if they’re registered, and all the car details are there, we have a little number on the pump, which they just put in, and then the pump will be authorized, and all they’ve got to do is get out of the car and put the nozzle in, and the transaction is then sorted.

BRIAN: It’s completely seamless.

BRIAN: That is starting to build quite nicely.

BRIAN: Now, one of the things we need to look at is trying to understand the profile of those customers who are using it.

BRIAN: So then we can start to target that particular demographic or gender so that we can continue to grow that.

BRIAN: What we did find, because we’ve done this quite in-depth with pay-at-pump ladies, and young mothers really like pay-at-pump technology, because kids are in the car, they’re safe, they’re there, and they’re not leaving the kids when they have to go in to pay for it or bring the kids out of the car to go in to a convenience.

BRIAN: It just wasn’t about the business customer.

BRIAN: It was very much about the ladies and young mothers with families.

BRIAN: So, Fuelpay has been a good success for us.

BRIAN: And it was difficult to get it to work, but it now works.

BRIAN: And obviously, we wouldn’t launch it until we had breast tested.

BRIAN: But three key parties in that, Opeo, Torkheim and Liquid Barcodes making that happen.

BRIAN: The other thing that people really want is Store Locator.

BRIAN: And this isn’t just for tourists coming in into Ireland, but also for people going outside of their local areas.

BRIAN: We spent a lot of time upgrading our CRM system, which links into Store Locator.

BRIAN: We’re working with a company called Yext, which makes sure that our engine optimization.

BRIAN: So we’re first up, if someone puts in fuel, car wash, coffee, food service, Maxol comes up first on that search.

BRIAN: We spent a lot of time and effort in making this happen.

PAULA: You mean on Google, Brian, is it?

BRIAN: Yes, absolutely.

PAULA: Excellent.

PAULA: OK, sorry, I didn’t pick that up.

PAULA: Search engine optimization, yeah?

BRIAN: Yeah.

BRIAN: So again, it’s a way of directing more business into your stores.

BRIAN: And also what we spent a lot of time doing is photographing all of our sites.

BRIAN: The profiles are very much the same front elevation, in-store elevations.

BRIAN: We’ve checked all of our range of services.

BRIAN: And really, you know, there’s key words there that we want to be first.

BRIAN: If someone’s looking for car wash, we want to be the first that pops up.

BRIAN: AdBlue, we want to be the first company that pops up.

BRIAN: Electrification, if you want to charge your car, we want to be the first step.

BRIAN: That’s why we’re using technology to drive more business into our stores.

BRIAN: So Store Locator does all of that, and that’s on the app.

BRIAN: The other is Engine Oil Finder.

BRIAN: We have one of the largest lubricants business on the island.

BRIAN: And albeit engine oil is a declining market, just with the performance and the quality of engines today.

BRIAN: But again, very simple.

BRIAN: You just put in your vehicle registration and it tells you what engine oil you need.

PAULA: I saw that in your YouTube video and I was so excited, Brian, because I really, you know, I’m somebody who struggles when I have a car.

PAULA: I don’t know here in Dubai, but the idea of refueling, and again, I love Ireland, but it’s always cold and rainy outside.

PAULA: So to be able to use the fuel pay, you know, from the comfort and warmth of my car is genius.

PAULA: And then I always struggled when I had to put oil in.

PAULA: And when I didn’t put the oil in, I’d be worried about it until I did.

PAULA: But I never knew.

PAULA: I used to have to go and look up the book and try and figure out.

PAULA: So I’m thrilled that you’ve fixed that ridiculous pain point.

PAULA: Like it always felt really silly.

PAULA: But if you can just put in the registration and go, tell me what to buy, I’ll buy it.

PAULA: You know, I mean, it’s just a no-brainer.

PAULA: I love it.

BRIAN: It is.

BRIAN: It just keeps it so, so simple.

BRIAN: And obviously we’re able to track all of those various services that are provided on our app.

BRIAN: So really, it was about putting the retail shop window of Maxol just in the palm of your hand.

BRIAN: So those services have been great.

BRIAN: And then we moved into the loyalty piece of it.

BRIAN: It sort of goes back to traditional thinking.

BRIAN: But one of the big differences on this particular program is you earn stars when you spend in store.

BRIAN: In Ireland, the benchmark point is five euros and above.

BRIAN: You get a star if you spend 30 euros or more in fuel, which has been easy to do since the war in Ukraine.

BRIAN: So really, stars are what, digital stars are what people earn.

BRIAN: And you earn it on your shop purchases, and you earn it in terms of off your fuel and car washing.

BRIAN: Car washing is a big part of our business in Ireland.

BRIAN: So it’s very important we reward those customers.

BRIAN: And also we work very closely with Easy Trip, who is one of the big roads, our toll road operators, where we give better value to their users.

BRIAN: And also their users don’t need to come in to our stores either.

BRIAN: Their little tag on their car is recognized at our car wash.

BRIAN: They drive up and they’re charged at the improved price level.

BRIAN: And they use the facility.

BRIAN: Another way of removing the friction, but also another way of gaining access to a new customer base and bringing them in to the Maxol community.

BRIAN: We’ve done various things like that.

BRIAN: But in terms of our loyalty program, again, we’ve tried to pick the best of what we’ve seen out there.

BRIAN: Whenever you register with us, you get your free cup of coffee, you’re going to get your birthday treat if you give us your email details and stuff like that.

BRIAN: You’re going to get a free coffee if you buy five, you get the sixth free.

BRIAN: Same in car wash, if you buy five, you get the fourth one free.

BRIAN: And then we’re introducing what we think Tesco ClubCard have done really, really smartly.

BRIAN: So whenever you come into our stores, you’re going to see all of those cards.

BRIAN: If you’re a Maxol Loyalty app, you get that packet of biscuits cheaper.

BRIAN: You get that milk cheaper.

BRIAN: You get that cereal cheaper.

BRIAN: You get that take-home meal cheaper.

BRIAN: And it’s been phenomenal.

BRIAN: The growth that we have seen.

BRIAN: So that’s a very clear indication.

BRIAN: Value is important.

BRIAN: And it means we perhaps maybe have to ease a bit of our margin, but equally, we try to get that margin shared by the supplier or the manufacturer.

BRIAN: So it’s about adapting and ensuring that we remain agile and we use the technology and our loyalty platform in which to communicate that.

BRIAN: But I think the other thing which is special in this is once you collect 10 stars within a 90-day period, you become a gold star customer.

BRIAN: So then we give you additional rewards and you’re entitled to different treats.

BRIAN: If you buy a coffee, you might get a muffin or you might get some other piece of confectionery.

BRIAN: And also, like what we’ve tried to do is to use our platform as a way to help some of the new product developments coming in and soft drinks, even coming in and confectionery.

BRIAN: So all of those products, if you are a Loyalty App customer, you come in and you buy something, you’re going to get that item free.

BRIAN: It’s a great way also for us to be a testbed for new products that are going to come through into the market.

BRIAN: And we also get exclusivity on that.

BRIAN: So nobody else can actually have the products.

BRIAN: So it’s very much work and progress, but it’s got off to a tremendous start.

BRIAN: And to be honest, we haven’t used television.

BRIAN: We haven’t used radio.

BRIAN: All we have done on this is social media and on-site activity.

BRIAN: We put a lot of time and effort into training and working very closely with our retailers and their staff to reward them.

BRIAN: If they can build and grow the number of app users within their particular area.

BRIAN: So, yeah.

BRIAN: It’s very much exciting from what we’ve achieved in a very short period of time.

BRIAN: And next year, we may well be looking at above-the-line marketing.

BRIAN: Because we really want to start telling the story of how we have changed.

BRIAN: And COVID has probably delayed that by about three years.

BRIAN: Because I’m a great believer, you don’t start shouting about something until you know that you actually have it on a nationwide basis.

BRIAN: You do not want to underperform or disappoint.

BRIAN: You want to have it right.

BRIAN: Genuinely, I think we have the best independent retailers under our brand.

BRIAN: We’ve worked very closely during some very tough times with COVID.

BRIAN: And it is a partnership.

BRIAN: It is a very healthy business relationship.

BRIAN: And they really have been the front line workers, as indeed all of the staff and retailers right across our industry have been.

BRIAN: And I think they deserve an awful lot of praise and thanks for what they did during some very, very, very difficult years.

BRIAN: But no, the program itself is exceptional.

BRIAN: It certainly exceeded what we felt that we were going to achieve at this moment in time.

BRIAN: One of the nice things we’ve been doing is how we use social media, how we use influencers to try to promote.

BRIAN: We use this guy, he’s a comedian, radio broadcaster called Keith Mullen.

BRIAN: And he’s a bit tongue in cheek.

BRIAN: And we do these sort of drive-throughs on key sites, where we build this big inflatable winner’s enclosure.

BRIAN: So you drive through and you may win a free cup of coffee, you might win a voucher or you might win something else.

BRIAN: And then we post all of this using social media.

BRIAN: And the following has grown quite dramatically.

BRIAN: Wow.

BRIAN: So we’ve used a lot of social media, digital.

BRIAN: We haven’t done anything above the line yet.

BRIAN: So what we’ve achieved with that has been very, very encouraging.

PAULA: Indeed.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: And often it is the case, Brian, where above the line is what is expected to drive the results, the engagement, the excitement.

PAULA: So really exciting to hear that social media is managing to do that.

PAULA: And obviously below the line and again, the focus on the people in store.

PAULA: So I know you take a lot of pride in, I suppose, almost having them compete as well against each other.

PAULA: I think you mentioned before, there’s a league table to see who’s signing up the most customers.

PAULA: Do you?

BRIAN: Yeah.

BRIAN: We measure this and even at our monthly board meetings, we have our top 10 and we have our bottom 10.

PAULA: Wow.

BRIAN: It’s a KPI in terms of how we measure performance.

PAULA: Yeah.

BRIAN: And thankfully, the bottom 10 are becoming a lot better.

BRIAN: And the top 10 are continuing to do extremely well.

BRIAN: But what gets measured gets done.

BRIAN: Totally.

BRIAN: And that’s always been our way.

BRIAN: So, yeah, look, you have to stay close to these things.

BRIAN: There’s no point launching it and walking away.

BRIAN: It becomes a new role, a new responsibility.

BRIAN: And it’s a new division of actually really within our marketing team.

BRIAN: Between Nikki and Ailish and Pauline and Kira, it’s a big area of focus today.

BRIAN: And we have some quite exciting plans to what we want to do with it in 23 and beyond.

BRIAN: So I think one of the first things we really want to do is we’re going to introduce some competitions, some gamification.

BRIAN: And that’s a bit of a follow on from what I learned.

BRIAN: I think it was Henry who was in charge of Circle K over in Hong Kong.

BRIAN: And I know it’s a slightly different demographic and a slightly different culture, but I do think the Irish people do like to have a bit of fun.

BRIAN: They like to see what they can win.

BRIAN: So we’re going to introduce some new competitions for some quite big, exciting prizes.

BRIAN: We certainly are going to look at our marketing, probably looking at something above the line as well.

BRIAN: And then what we really want to do is launch it in Northern Ireland.

BRIAN: There’s a big amount of work going on there really in terms of technology.

BRIAN: We need to have the right platform in which the technology sits on.

BRIAN: So again, we’re making that investment.

BRIAN: Exciting plans and all of that, you know.

PAULA: Absolutely.

BRIAN: And also making sure we pick the right products in which we offer to our customers in terms of giving that value or that improved price.

BRIAN: Lots to do.

PAULA: I mean, the job will never be done, Brian.

PAULA: But what I’m hearing is, first of all, I suppose the support from your partners in industry.

PAULA: So I really loved that aspect, I guess, of convenience retail, because the manufacturers, I think, are finally waking up to the power that you have, the customer connections you have, and whether it is sampling or any of the other marketing activities they need, they actually do need partners like Maxol.

PAULA: So thrilled to hear that they’re fully on board, of course, in supporting the loyalty program.

PAULA: And it’s giving them a channel to market, I guess they’ve never really had before.

PAULA: So even that piece on its own is something again, just kind of registering in my own mind another episode I need to explore.

PAULA: And you’ve already actually answered what was going to be my next and probably final question, which was the future.

PAULA: So you’ve talked a bit about that.

PAULA: One that I’d be curious about, and you may or may not be interested in that model, but I know Liquid Barcodes does a lot with subscription as a particular approach.

PAULA: And again, I’ve interviewed Circle K with Car Wash subscription, for example, in other markets.

PAULA: And just wondering, is there any kind of thoughts you’re having about the appeal of subscription for your business?

PAULA: Or can you say or any thoughts would be would be interesting?

BRIAN: Yeah, look, I think it’s a great question.

BRIAN: Yes, we are looking at subscription.

PAULA: Okay.

BRIAN: And as I said, car washing is a big part of our business on the island, both north and south.

BRIAN: And yes, we’d be very keen to develop a subscription model.

BRIAN: And we’ve just finished and signed off our strategic plan to 2027.

BRIAN: One of the key projects that we want to be doing is rolling out a subscription model for car washing.

BRIAN: We don’t think it’s right for coffee.

PAULA: Okay.

BRIAN: We do think it is right for car wash.

BRIAN: So we’ve been doing a little bit of research, a little bit of work on all of this.

BRIAN: And yes, we will be introducing subscription on car washing, probably on a trial basis initially and then see how that works.

BRIAN: We’re very much aware of the model by Circle K, which is very good, very impressive.

BRIAN: And because most of the background work in technology is already being developed, it’s much easier to bring it into the market.

BRIAN: So yes, that would be something else we’d be keen to actually develop out.

BRIAN: Because even in terms of our car wash offer, we’ve been looking at different ways of adding more excitement, more whistles and bells, just by looking at what happens in different parts of the world.

BRIAN: And it’s amazing just by having different lighting that comes on at different times and different foams and different chemicals that are actually used.

BRIAN: But it’s about the quality of wash.

BRIAN: And any of the washes within our site, we control all of the chemicals.

BRIAN: They come in through our lubricants business.

BRIAN: And again, everything’s closely monitored real time in terms of telepathy, in terms of how we see what’s actually happening.

BRIAN: Because it all comes down to the quality and the consistency of the offer that you’re giving.

BRIAN: And it’s the same with coffee.

BRIAN: That’s why we invest in the best coffee machines.

BRIAN: That’s why we invest in the best coffee beans.

BRIAN: We actually test and sample the beans that are coming into our sites on an ad hoc basis.

BRIAN: Because it’s very important to make sure that what we are getting is what we actually have asked for.

BRIAN: So control and continuing to stay on top of the quality of the offer that we bring.

BRIAN: But genuinely, the loyalty app is our communication tool.

BRIAN: It’s how we’re going to connect to our customers.

BRIAN: It’s how we’re going to start pushing more communications to them in terms of what we’re about, what we’re doing, how we give them more value, and why we should be their destination.

BRIAN: Our positioning line is at the heart of it.

BRIAN: So we’re very much a community-driven business.

BRIAN: We don’t have a lot of sites on arterial roads, and that’s quite deliberate in our strategy.

BRIAN: We typically invest where we have large residential or whether there’s a large hinterland of light commercial.

BRIAN: So you’re always going to have a large footfall of either traffic that drives in or people can walk in.

BRIAN: And we think once you get into the next decade, that’s going to stand in our favor rather than against.

BRIAN: The other side that we’ll be doing on Loyalty is offering rewards for EV charging.

PAULA: Super, yeah.

BRIAN: On Tuesday, we opened the first dedicated EV hub in Ireland in Kinnaker in Hollywood in Northern Ireland.

BRIAN: So it’s the first that we will do and which we will launch.

BRIAN: And we’ve created a new sub-brand within our portfolio.

BRIAN: It’s now in Maxol Recharge.

BRIAN: And again, we’ve been testing this technology for well over 18 months.

BRIAN: We have our own payments platform, and it looks superb.

BRIAN: So I will send you a picture and a video of what we do on Tuesday.

PAULA: Oh, please do, Brian.

PAULA: Absolutely.

PAULA: And by the time this episode is released, absolutely, that will already have happened.

PAULA: So we’ll make sure to share the story.

PAULA: And what I definitely want to say is, I really want to have a follow up maybe this time next year, Brian, because I feel like this story is only getting started.

PAULA: And Maxol is something that’s just, you know, an incredible, iconic Irish brand, and really want to stay close to what you’re doing in the loyalty space, just to make sure that our global listeners get to hear the continuing story.

PAULA: So that’s it from my side.

PAULA: Are there any other points, Brian, that you want to make before we wrap up?

BRIAN: No, again, just to thank you for the opportunity, just to share some of our history, some of our story, and also to thank you for your very kind words.

BRIAN: You know, we’re a family organization.

BRIAN: We’re very humble and we just want to do the right thing by everyone.

BRIAN: We want to seem to be a fair retailer and we just want to continue to grow.

BRIAN: And, you know, we have plans to invest and also plans in terms of how we pivot so our business remains relevant once we get into the next decade.

PAULA: Absolutely, that’s the key.

PAULA: So with all of that said, Brian Donaldson, Chief Executive Officer at The Maxol Group, thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketeer, the world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news, insights and research.

PAULA: The Wise Marketeer also offers loyalty marketing training through its loyalty academy, which has already certified over 245 executives in 27 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: For more information, check out thewisemarketeer.com and loyaltyacademy.org.

PAULA: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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