Qantas Loyalty: Redefining Member Rewards & Recognition (#761)

PAULA: Hello, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a podcast for loyalty marketing professionals.

PAULA: My name is Paula Thomas, and I’m the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

PAULA: And I’m delighted to be making a one-off return appearance to co-host this very special episode.

PAULA: Qantas Loyalty is a loyalty business that I mentioned by name in the very first episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty back in 2019.

PAULA: And that’s because many years ago at a loyalty conference in the UK, somebody mentioned that Qantas Loyalty Division was making more revenue for the group than all its international flights combined.

PAULA: It blew my mind.

PAULA: And it was at that moment I realized that loyalty can be a business in its own right and not just a marketing tool to drive retention.

PAULA: So when Andrew Glance, the CEO of Qantas Loyalty, recently celebrated the announcement of the largest changes to earning and retaining status in the program’s nearly 40 year history, I knew we had to have him personally on the show.

PAULA: And I’m thrilled he agreed.

PAULA: I’m also delighted to be able to co-host the episode with our Asia Pacific host Carly Neubauer.

PAULA: Carly Neubauer, who’s the Managing Director of Elevate Loyalty, a loyalty experiences company specializing in designing, implementing and managing loyalty in both B2C and B2B programs.

PAULA: Carly’s also the Managing Director of Loyalty Economics, a global community and content site focused on turning loyalty into profitability.

PAULA: Throughout our conversation today, you’ll hear Andrew sharing the details of the changes that Qantas Loyalty has just announced, along with some of the thinking that led to those changes, and of course some of the results they’ve already achieved.

PAULA: I’m particularly impressed by some of the numbers included in their 2025 annual report, such as 222 billion points earned and 185 billion points redeemed, delivering an underlying EBIT of 556 million dollars.

PAULA: I hope you enjoy Carly and I in conversation with Andrew Glance, CEO of Qantas Loyalty.

PAULA: So, Andrew Glance, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

ANDREW GLANCE: Thanks for having me, Paula.

PAULA: Amazing.

PAULA: I think I alluded in my formal introduction, Andrew.

PAULA: This is a real pinch me moment.

PAULA: You’ve really been part as a brand of my origin story and really being inspired by the power of loyalty to really be a business, not just, I suppose, a behavioral change program.

PAULA: So on behalf of the audience, a huge welcome.

PAULA: And we have a huge amount to talk about today.

PAULA: I’m delighted, of course, to be joined by Carly Neubauer as well.

PAULA: But as you know, we always start this show with one question, which is just for us to get a sense of who you are as a leader.

PAULA: So we love to ask about a book about life leadership or loyalty that inspired you to become the CEO that you are today.

PAULA: So kick us off and tell us any favorite book that you could recommend for our audience.

ANDREW GLANCE: Well, this is a great question, because I’m probably not the best with regards to my rich history of novels.

ANDREW GLANCE: Most of my reading is actually the AFR and the Australian, and probably more recently, or over the last four weeks, a lot of reading with regards to the situation in the Middle East.

ANDREW GLANCE: But I think the last book I did read was a book by the name of The Subtle Art of Not Giving A, I won’t say the last word because it’s quite rude.

ANDREW GLANCE: That very much gives you the, I suppose, framing with regards to accepting the things that you cannot change, because there’s many things in life we cannot change.

ANDREW GLANCE: The courage to know the things that we can, but most importantly, the wisdom to know the difference.

ANDREW GLANCE: So that’s probably what I’m best positioned for that.

PAULA: Yeah.

PAULA: It’s The Whole Principle of Surrender, Andrew, and I absolutely love it.

PAULA: I have read the book and again, we’ll put in the show notes for people who are curious as to why you won’t say that word.

PAULA: But it really is very inspirational.

PAULA: And good to know that even in your role, that you’re very clear that there are things that are just going to happen.

PAULA: So we just get to get on and certainly based here in the Middle East, we’re getting on with business as usual.

PAULA: So I’m going to let Carly now get a bit of a sense about who you are, Andrew.

PAULA: So can’t wait to hear all of this.

CARLY NEUBAUER: So great to see you, Andrew.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Thanks for joining the show.

ANDREW GLANCE: Thanks for having me.

CARLY NEUBAUER: The other question we always ask is a favorite loyalty program.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Now, I’m going to have to state the obvious, you can’t say your own.

CARLY NEUBAUER: So tell us a favorite loyalty program of yours.

ANDREW GLANCE: I’m going to cheat.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think number one, outside of QFF, it has to be a core.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, a core obviously provides our members with the ability to earn points reciprocally across both QFF and a core.

ANDREW GLANCE: So that’s a great program of which I’m a member of and our members absolutely love it as two of your core members.

ANDREW GLANCE: This is where I may cheat.

ANDREW GLANCE: Our QBR program, which is Qantas Business Rewards, it is a part of the QFF family and importantly provides near 650,000 small businesses the opportunity to participate in the program and importantly be both rewarded and recognized for their small business and everyday behavior.

CARLY NEUBAUER: That’s fantastic.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Now, we definitely had a core on the show before and they’re a brilliant, brilliant program.

CARLY NEUBAUER: You’ve found a loophole to still call out technically a Qantas program, but I love it and it’s a fair call.

CARLY NEUBAUER: It’s a total fair call.

CARLY NEUBAUER: What we’d love to understand and before we talk about some of the latest game changing updates and the latest updates to Qantas Frequent Flyer, tell us about your journey and your experience.

CARLY NEUBAUER: How did you find yourself here and find yourself, you’ve got a serious journey as the CEO of Qantas Frequent Flyer?

ANDREW GLANCE: Yeah, it’s a great question and I’ve been extremely fortunate.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, I’m an accountant by trade.

ANDREW GLANCE: That’s something that sometimes I joke around with regards to, I don’t like to admit it, but it’s certainly something that I’m very proud of because that’s provided me with the foundations that I have today in terms of understanding business.

ANDREW GLANCE: I quite quickly moved through the accounting trade side of things and found myself in a number of different industries from engineering through to publications and media more broadly.

ANDREW GLANCE: It was about 21 years ago that I was called by a recruiter regarding an opportunity at Qantas.

ANDREW GLANCE: I took that opportunity on a contract basis, and from there I’ve worked through the organization.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think for me, I’ve been extremely lucky that I’ve had many roles from within the group, starting from within finance and moving through transformation change to commercial to now CEO.

ANDREW GLANCE: But importantly, the depth of experience through many different parts of the business, from in-flight services to catering to ops control through to network, finance transformation, tech crew, cabin crew, and now loyalty.

ANDREW GLANCE: So I’ve been very fortunate, and it was probably around probably 10 to 12 years ago, whilst I was in catering that I sort of reached that junction from moving from sort of a strict finance discipline into commercial and change and my appetite for this side of the business grew from there.

ANDREW GLANCE: So I’ve been in loyalty for about 10 years.

ANDREW GLANCE: I’ve been a CEO for the last two, and I feel very fortunate.

ANDREW GLANCE: It’s a fantastic business, an extremely strong brand and obviously a big part of the Qantas group, but importantly, the team that runs and leads and basically makes the loyalty program what it is.

ANDREW GLANCE: They’re an amazing team, so I’m very lucky.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Absolutely, and obviously, your depth of knowledge of so many areas within the business that you can now bring to the Qantas Frequent Fire Loyalty area must really, really help and support bringing the different divisions of the business all intertwining.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think it’s a really important point, Carly.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think one of the things that we as an organization do extremely well is understand what that integrated value across the business looks like from a Jetstar, Qantas and Loyalty perspective.

ANDREW GLANCE: It’s important that you understand the different threads throughout the business.

ANDREW GLANCE: But importantly, aviation is a very complex business.

ANDREW GLANCE: And certainly, the knowledge that I’ve gained over the last 21 to 22 years certainly helps me navigate my way through the journey because it is a journey, so to speak.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Definitely.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Yeah, so I just fully plays Paula.

PAULA: Yeah, no, I just wanted to, I suppose, comment on that finance background as well, Andrew, because I’ve always felt that that’s a language I don’t really speak.

PAULA: And I think it’s what our audience really is, is craving to, I suppose, also understand that financial mindset to prove the ROI of loyalty.

PAULA: So when I think about loyalty within the airline business, my own background in British Airways and Emirates, I always remember discussions with revenue management.

PAULA: And again, you’re perfectly equipped to have those conversations in terms of important details like seat inventory, for example.

PAULA: So super impressive background and yeah, really impressive.

PAULA: I think 18 and a half years in total in Qantas from what I saw.

ANDREW GLANCE: Yeah, I think actually that might be slightly, slightly out of date because I’ve actually probably been here probably closer to 21 and a half because I did about 12 to 18 months of contracting and actually when I first come into the group.

ANDREW GLANCE: Yeah.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean on a contract and my view was to do the 12 month contract.

ANDREW GLANCE: I was in a great location because I was actually in the city at the time.

ANDREW GLANCE: So I thought this is great.

ANDREW GLANCE: I’m in the city working for Qantas on a contract and I didn’t have any real burning appetite to come to mascot.

ANDREW GLANCE: But the move to mascot was the move that I made and 20 odd years later, I’m still here.

PAULA: Amazing.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Well, it goes to show you never know where your journey is going to lead.

CARLY NEUBAUER: If you thought 12 months and 20 years, here we go.

ANDREW GLANCE: Exactly right.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Before we talk about Qantas itself, Qantas Fire Supplier and the program and some of these key, key updates, can you give our audience, let’s say, for example, they may not be familiar with the program, a little quick snapshot of the program, but then also what has led to some of these key massive updates that we’ve just been hearing about?

ANDREW GLANCE: Sure.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think just important to sort of, I suppose, frame it up front by, there are two very distinct parts to the Loyalty program.

ANDREW GLANCE: We have a consumer product, which is the Qantas Frequent Flyer program, of which many of our members would know today, which has around sort of 18.3 million members.

ANDREW GLANCE: We also have a small business program, which is for IE commercial, which is called Qantas Business Rewards.

ANDREW GLANCE: QBR today has around about 650, a thousand small businesses registered within the program.

ANDREW GLANCE: With regards to the program more broadly, the most simplest way to think of the program is in two parts, both reward and recognition.

ANDREW GLANCE: The reward is very much built around our members’ behaviour and the ways in which they engage with the Frequent Flyer program.

ANDREW GLANCE: And we talk a lot to the 600, 700 plus program partners that we have today.

ANDREW GLANCE: So we provide countless ways in which members can basically engage in the program and ultimately we were rewarded for that engagement being it from financial services to travel to retail and beyond.

ANDREW GLANCE: And importantly, that’s a big part of the value proposition in terms of being rewarded for your everyday behaviour.

ANDREW GLANCE: From there, that also extends into the redemption side and the ability to ultimately redeem your points.

ANDREW GLANCE: Again, we have a very diverse program with regards to providing our members with the value around redemption.

ANDREW GLANCE: A big part of it is obviously flying and flight redemptions.

ANDREW GLANCE: The book ends there being that you can obviously use your points for classic flight rewards right through to Classic Plus.

ANDREW GLANCE: That’s applicable to our Qantas, Jetstar and our partner network, which includes 30 airlines.

ANDREW GLANCE: We provide enormous depth in terms of redemption across Qantas, Jetstar and partner airlines.

ANDREW GLANCE: That’s very much around what we term the reward side of the program.

ANDREW GLANCE: A very important aspect of the program is also recognition.

ANDREW GLANCE: Recognition is recognizing new field loyalty.

ANDREW GLANCE: That’s ultimately underpinned the psyche of the program.

ANDREW GLANCE: Recognition is all built around your flying behavior and saying thank you, we’re going to recognize you for your loyalty to Qantas.

ANDREW GLANCE: That has been for many years, we are now 39 years old.

ANDREW GLANCE: For a big part of that, we’ve had a very clear separation between reward and recognition and recognition has primarily been for your flying behavior.

ANDREW GLANCE: The changes that we’ve announced as a part of our half-year results, very much opened the door with regards to providing more meaningful ways for our members to earn recognition on the ground.

ANDREW GLANCE: So this is about driving loyalty beyond the air, but also across the broader loyalty program and giving our members greater utility and importantly recognition for their overarching program loyalty.

CARLY NEUBAUER: And what instigated the change?

CARLY NEUBAUER: We’ve got some fantastic edits and updates and game-changing elements of the program, but why?

CARLY NEUBAUER: Tell us about the why, what instigated this to come about?

ANDREW GLANCE: It’s also a great question.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, one of the things that I think, having a program of 18.3 million members, it really keeps you on your toes and you need to make sure that you are very much listening to the members.

ANDREW GLANCE: We do an enormous amount of research to better understand what’s working and what’s not.

ANDREW GLANCE: And importantly, a lot of the work that we’ve done over the last two years has been really doubling down.

ANDREW GLANCE: And addressing some of those member pain points.

ANDREW GLANCE: You would have seen Classic Plus.

ANDREW GLANCE: Classic Plus was launched about 18 months ago, thereabouts providing members with great availability across the Qantas network, both international and domestic.

ANDREW GLANCE: And that was ultimately born through the single largest pain point through our program, that being availability.

ANDREW GLANCE: So we spent a lot of time better understanding the member need and importantly build the program around that.

ANDREW GLANCE: And Classic Plus very much addressed that single pain point.

ANDREW GLANCE: Moving on to recognition, equally, we found that the way in which the program was designed, as you would recall, you have the Qantas Frequent Fly program within the Frequent Fly program, you also had Points Club and Points Club Plus, along with GreenTier.

ANDREW GLANCE: We found that that was creating a fair bit of confusion with our members and probably more importantly, new members with regards to confusion in terms of programs within programs.

ANDREW GLANCE: So that was very much one of the reasons.

ANDREW GLANCE: Also, we also, through those particular programs, had a deep understanding with regards to our members seeking the ability to be recognized for their on-the-ground behaviour.

ANDREW GLANCE: As a part of that research, we launched a trial toward the back end of last year.

ANDREW GLANCE: That was an opportunity for our members to register for the opportunity to earn status on the ground over a four-week period in terms of registration.

ANDREW GLANCE: That then provided them the opportunity to engage in on-the-ground activities to ultimately receive recognition through status.

ANDREW GLANCE: That was our single largest campaign in history with regards to registrations for status.

ANDREW GLANCE: That gave us the proof points in knowing that our members wanted to be recognized for beyond the air.

ANDREW GLANCE: That really was the driving force for the changes that we announced as a part of the half.

ANDREW GLANCE: So a lot of what we do is very much anchored around the member.

ANDREW GLANCE: Importantly, making sure that we are meeting the member in the moment that matters the most to them.

ANDREW GLANCE: But importantly, providing them with what they want from the program that we are.

PAULA: Amazing.

PAULA: I’m a huge fan of simplification, Andrew.

PAULA: Honestly, it’s one of those things.

PAULA: I actually did a whole episode on it once because I really think we’re all just like overwhelmed with life and anything that’s simple and compelling and of course relevant, which you know, something like traveling on Qantas, of course, is always going to be.

PAULA: So brilliant to hear all of the simplification.

PAULA: Again, I’m a frequent flyer here in the Middle East and I love the on the ground opportunities.

PAULA: So definitely as a frequent flyer or would like to be even more frequent flyer, the opportunity to earn when I’m not on an aircraft is absolutely extraordinary.

PAULA: I want to go back to a word you used, Andrew, and it was probably my favorite part of when we were prepping for this call.

PAULA: You talked about this idea of the word thread and that there are multiple categories for people in Australia, particularly, of course, your home market, to engage across the Qantas business.

PAULA: So the whole group you mentioned, Jetstar, will you just talk to us about the power and importance of that mindset as a loyalty leader?

PAULA: Because I think it’s something that, again, our audience, no matter where they are, can really tap into that concept that there is an opportunity, I guess, for what I would think of as cross-sell.

PAULA: So I’d love you just to explain that in terms of how you think of it internally.

ANDREW GLANCE: Yeah, I think for us, again, given the size of the program that we have, it is important that you are providing value to all members.

ANDREW GLANCE: That becomes more difficult as the program grows.

ANDREW GLANCE: Importantly, when you’re spreading across multiple demographics and trying to making sure that you are meeting the members of different audiences and different age brackets.

ANDREW GLANCE: We are constantly working through ways in which we can provide that reward and recognition to all audience.

ANDREW GLANCE: The dual brand strategy works extremely well for us with regards to both Qantas and Jetstar.

ANDREW GLANCE: Jetstar is proving to be a very powerful asset in terms of the opportunity that we provide to our members.

ANDREW GLANCE: You have obviously an audience that are very much rusted onto Qantas and they very much love flying with Qantas.

ANDREW GLANCE: Their aspiration is to get that Classic Plus flight reward.

ANDREW GLANCE: But equally, we also have a much younger audience, much more price conscious audience that are seeking similar opportunities through i.e.

ANDREW GLANCE: Jetstar.

ANDREW GLANCE: So, through the announcement of the ability to redeem most of the East Coast on Jetstar for a Classic flight reward at $5,000, that’s opened up an enormous opportunity for our members in terms of engaging.

ANDREW GLANCE: But I think more importantly, we talk a lot to the 600 to 700 partners across the program.

ANDREW GLANCE: Very simplistically, when looking at the ways in which members can earn points, we are providing countless ways in which members can earn points in their everyday way.

ANDREW GLANCE: Be it shopping at Woolworths, through filling up at BP, to taking out Red Energy, to taking out a credit card or home loan share trading.

ANDREW GLANCE: The important part for us is making sure that when we think about program and program design and importantly partners, that we are signing partners that very much meet those members in that moment that matters the most to them.

ANDREW GLANCE: Diversification is critical for us.

ANDREW GLANCE: Diversification, ensuring that members are getting value and value where they need it.

PAULA: Amazing.

PAULA: And I did see in your annual report as well, the redemption rates are absolutely extraordinary.

PAULA: I think I alluded to it in my opening section, but 83% of the hundreds of billions of points that are earned are also being redeemed.

PAULA: So that sounds like something that’s absolutely extraordinary.

ANDREW GLANCE: Look, it is.

ANDREW GLANCE: And I mean, we’re extremely pleased with that.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, a big part of that has been the introduction of Classic Plus.

ANDREW GLANCE: And just a reminder to the audience, that Classic Plus is the ability to redeem up to near 20 million seats on the Qantas network, being at Qantas International and Domestic.

ANDREW GLANCE: It doesn’t include Jetstar and doesn’t include partner airlines, but we’ve seen a significant drive toward redemption.

ANDREW GLANCE: And there is still redemption strength in Classic Flight Rewards.

ANDREW GLANCE: And that is very much for those that are wanting to get the best price point subject to availability.

ANDREW GLANCE: But Classic Plus has opened up a completely new audience, and an audience that previously may not have been as engaged and now re-engaging.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, importantly, the most pleasing part of Classic Flight Rewards, or Classic Plus, I should say, has been a spread of redemptions.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, we’re seeing really strong spread of redemption across the entire calendar.

ANDREW GLANCE: We’re seeing Classic Plus redemptions in peak periods.

ANDREW GLANCE: We’re seeing Classic Plus redemptions in peak destinations, including US and Europe.

ANDREW GLANCE: And importantly, we’re seeing a lot of family travel, and family travel in premium cabins.

ANDREW GLANCE: So for us, we couldn’t be happier.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, Classic Plus has certainly proven to be a game-changer for us in terms of providing the ultimate availability to our members.

PAULA: Amazing.

PAULA: Yeah, I think it had been a pain point, and it really seems like you’re addressing it.

PAULA: So well done.

ANDREW GLANCE: Thanks, Paula.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think the pain point around availability, again, look, I think at the end of the day, you’re never complete in terms of the journey, so we still have a journey to run.

ANDREW GLANCE: But Classic Plus has addressed a big part of the pain point around availability.

ANDREW GLANCE: The feedback that we’ve received with regards to the changes that we announced off the back of the half around recognition has been phenomenal.

ANDREW GLANCE: Feedback from members, feedback from the broader loyalty audience.

ANDREW GLANCE: So we’re certainly quite hopeful that in the months ahead, that the program will really, I suppose, elevate in terms of strength and value through these changes.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Can I go back to one thing you said very quickly earlier around program design?

CARLY NEUBAUER: I think it would be easy for people to assume you’re an airline loyalty program.

CARLY NEUBAUER: It’s a really obvious structure.

CARLY NEUBAUER: You fly, you earn.

CARLY NEUBAUER: This is really simple and straightforward and we do love simplicity and loyalty.

CARLY NEUBAUER: However, can you talk to us a little bit about program design?

CARLY NEUBAUER: Because it’s actually quite intricate behind the scenes to not only design the program originally and then make these changes and then to your point earlier being previously in finance, making sure it still makes money.

ANDREW GLANCE: Wow, that is an extremely-

CARLY NEUBAUER: There’s a lot there.

ANDREW GLANCE: There’s an enormous amount there.

ANDREW GLANCE: You’ve probably gone to the heart of the complexity of loyalty programs.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, it’s a great point.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, program design is very much around looking at ways in which you can create the customer value proposition in the most meaningful way for our members whilst ensuring that there are the right economics to surround that.

ANDREW GLANCE: So that can be from reward redemptions across Qantas Partner and Jetstar Metal.

ANDREW GLANCE: It can be across reward rates for non-flight redemptions.

ANDREW GLANCE: It can also then move into earn rates for on-the-ground partners.

ANDREW GLANCE: Then more broadly, how we use the recognition part of the program through tiers.

ANDREW GLANCE: Importantly, the benefits that you get through tiers and program design.

ANDREW GLANCE: At the heart of program design were the changes that we made off the back of the half in terms of rethinking recognition.

ANDREW GLANCE: But it’s a great point.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, loyalty is probably for most, not known as a very complex program.

ANDREW GLANCE: A program of our size is an extremely complex program.

ANDREW GLANCE: You are constantly working with regards to the balance to ensure that you are absolutely number one meeting the members’ needs.

ANDREW GLANCE: If you’re not providing that value, members will go elsewhere.

ANDREW GLANCE: It’s as simple as that.

ANDREW GLANCE: You need to be very much front of mind in terms of making sure that the value is there and the members are getting that value.

ANDREW GLANCE: But importantly, behind that, you need to run a business and you need to make sure that it is producing the returns that ultimately drive the investments.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Thank you for taking that question on because obviously, as loyalty professionals, we do love all of this and the behind the scenes and intricacies.

CARLY NEUBAUER: I appreciate that.

ANDREW GLANCE: That’s all good.

CARLY NEUBAUER: I’d also like to ask you around some sort of imminent RBA review, surcharging interchange impacts.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Well, how are you approaching that within your team and what are the considerations for Qantas Frequent Flyer?

PAULA: Can I just jump in to ask you maybe, Andrew, would you just explain that like we’ve a lot of listeners in the US, UK, for example, so they might be aware of the scale of what’s coming in Australia?

ANDREW GLANCE: Well, I mean, look, I think those in the UK would probably be closer to it in terms of reform that they saw in 2016, 2018 from memory and probably to a lesser extent in the United States.

ANDREW GLANCE: But the RBA, some months back, put a position out with regards to essentially making a number of changes to the payments landscape here in Australia.

ANDREW GLANCE: Two parts to it.

ANDREW GLANCE: Number one was to ultimately put a position forward with regards to the banning of surcharging.

ANDREW GLANCE: So there are certain merchants out there that today still very much apply a surcharge when you make a transaction.

ANDREW GLANCE: The idea here being is that the RBA, the view that they would like all forms of payment to ultimately be free, so to speak.

ANDREW GLANCE: Therefore, position being is that taking forward to ban surcharging.

ANDREW GLANCE: The second is to make further reform to interchange.

ANDREW GLANCE: Interchange is a component of credit card economics that very much feeds into the ways in which banks fund costs associated with credit cards.

ANDREW GLANCE: I won’t go into the finer details with regards to what the RBA is proposing, but it’s quite scientific in terms of caps and tiers.

ANDREW GLANCE: When they make that change, that change will basically then be something that we’ll need to work through.

ANDREW GLANCE: Just on two fronts, with regards to surcharging, I think the reality is that there is actually a cost of accepting payments.

ANDREW GLANCE: So for those merchants that do surcharge to know they will need to make a decision with regards to how they manage that cost moving forward.

ANDREW GLANCE: With regards to interchange, look from our perspective, we have very long standing relationships with our banking partners here in Australia for near 30 years.

ANDREW GLANCE: There is a very strong and aligned understanding with regards to the value that both Qantas Frequent Flyer and the banks present each other, and importantly, our shared customer and member.

ANDREW GLANCE: With that, we’ve been through this in 2017, through the financial services inquiry, and through that process, we’ve worked very closely with our partners to ensure that our members and their customers continue to enjoy the benefits that they had previously on a Qantas Pointe earning credit card.

ANDREW GLANCE: And through that process, we managed to not only maintain, but today grow the business.

ANDREW GLANCE: With that, in terms of relationships, we believe that we, alongside our backing partners, have a number of levers available to each of us to ensure that our members can continue to enjoy the benefits that they get today.

ANDREW GLANCE: So, look, it’s something that we were absolutely aware of in terms of it was coming.

ANDREW GLANCE: The question mark was with regards to the timing.

ANDREW GLANCE: What I can say and what I’ve been consistently saying is that we are absolutely ready.

ANDREW GLANCE: We are well prepared for the changes, what other changes may be.

ANDREW GLANCE: Importantly, one thing that I would never undervalue or understate is the value that we have in terms of relationship with our partners.

ANDREW GLANCE: So, I have confidence moving forward.

PAULA: Wonderful.

PAULA: Thanks for that, Andrew.

PAULA: Complicated, Carly, do you want to comment on that at all?

PAULA: I suppose you’re hearing a lot about that in the industry as well.

PAULA: By the time we release this podcast, of course, the announcements will be out there.

PAULA: So, I guess it’s another reason to have Andrew back on the show in the future to see how it all unfolds.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Very true.

PAULA: Perfect.

PAULA: Listen, Andrew, I’m going to change tack just a little bit because I love the fact, of course, that you are a publicly quoted company, that you have membership numbers, that you quote to investors in your annual report.

PAULA: I’ve just published a report coming out literally at the moment about the world’s largest loyalty programs.

PAULA: And of course, Qantas has made the cut, given that you do have 18.3 million.

PAULA: But one of the challenges we had, I suppose, when writing the report was really to, I suppose, justify the fact that we quote total membership numbers rather than active membership numbers.

PAULA: And I think all of our audience tend to wish that they had visibility and I suppose public visibility of active membership numbers.

PAULA: But that’s not what the industry is doing.

PAULA: And certainly that’s not what Qantas is doing, although I know your active membership numbers are going all in an incredible direction.

PAULA: But would you mind just explaining why do you prefer to use total membership numbers, given that particularly in the industry, we know that people obviously do disengage, people unfortunately pass away.

PAULA: So it’s hard to get a total sense of who’s actively a member of your program.

PAULA: So do investors ask you about this?

PAULA: So just tell us about your thinking on the style of numbers you publish.

ANDREW GLANCE: Look, I mean, yes, I get asked the question quite a lot.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think the most simplistic answer to this is that headline growth is extremely important.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, the 18.3 to 19 to 19.5 is extremely important, and headline growth will always be a primary driver for us.

ANDREW GLANCE: Importantly, to also acknowledge that the 18.3 million members that we quote, are not just Australian domicile, they are also overseas.

ANDREW GLANCE: So, that’s a sort of, I suppose, an overlay to put into that.

ANDREW GLANCE: The reason that we don’t like to quote the absolute number of active members is because every single loyalty program defines an active member in a very different way.

ANDREW GLANCE: From retail, through to shopping, through to airlines, through to trade, everyone has a different definition of active.

ANDREW GLANCE: Someone might turn active as, i.e.

ANDREW GLANCE: you engage with me within the last week, the last month, the last year, the last two years.

ANDREW GLANCE: So for us, we felt that it’s probably not the right measure because to be measured against our peers or industry more broadly, you’re not comparing apples with apples in terms of the absolute.

ANDREW GLANCE: More importantly for us, and this has been very consistent with my messaging, is that the most important number that we should be referring to is not only the headline number but more importantly, the increase in active or engaged members.

ANDREW GLANCE: That really is the secret source.

ANDREW GLANCE: That’s what demonstrates the power of the program, but most importantly demonstrates the value that we as a program are presenting to our members.

ANDREW GLANCE: So we’re not certainly, I mean, I’m certainly extremely proud of our active member base.

ANDREW GLANCE: And again, I’m even more proud that it’s growing.

ANDREW GLANCE: But importantly, you’re getting yourself into an interesting situation when you start to compare apples and pears and oranges because they are not like for like.

PAULA: Totally, and I just did discover that one.

PAULA: I tried to write a report and tried to find active membership numbers, it just wasn’t possible.

PAULA: So it is certainly consistent globally that total membership base is the default and obviously best practice.

PAULA: So thank you for taking that one.

ANDREW GLANCE: Pleasure.

CARLY NEUBAUER: To clarify as well, you mentioned that you look at the increase in active, and that’s one of the measurables internally, is that correct?

ANDREW GLANCE: Exactly right.

ANDREW GLANCE: So the increase in active members, and active being an engaged member in the program or group more broadly.

ANDREW GLANCE: So most certainly from our perspective, where our efforts, and this comes back to the strategy in the underlying, I suppose, pillars within the strategy.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, to bring a new member into the program is probably the easiest part, to bring them in and activate and engage.

ANDREW GLANCE: That’s where you win them at that moment.

ANDREW GLANCE: And once you’ve bought them in, you’ve activated and engaged, you engage through, or activate through digital and engage through the portfolio.

ANDREW GLANCE: It doesn’t stop there.

ANDREW GLANCE: So the most important part of the success of any loyalty program is making sure that bringing a member in is fantastic, but you need to make sure that that member is actually engaging in your program and they’re active.

ANDREW GLANCE: That’s why that for us is the most important measure.

PAULA: And I think if I was answering the question myself in your shoes, Andrew, I’d actually be pointing to the revenue and profitability.

PAULA: So actually how you get there is probably not what investors are fully focused on.

PAULA: It’s did you get the end result and is this a profitable business?

PAULA: So again, kudos commercially.

PAULA: It’s phenomenal.

PAULA: We know how you get there.

PAULA: So yeah, it’s an amazing story.

ANDREW GLANCE: Thank you.

CARLY NEUBAUER: There are a few questions we’d still like to ask a little bit in a different style, but one particularly I always love to find out from seasoned professionals and experts in loyalty, is industry trends and your opinion.

CARLY NEUBAUER: What are your thoughts generally, and I don’t mean specific to Qantas, Rupert Flyer around the loyalty industry?

CARLY NEUBAUER: We can sometimes say the good, the bad, the ugly.

CARLY NEUBAUER: We don’t need to be that harsh, but just more, what are you loving to see?

CARLY NEUBAUER: What do you think needs improvement or general views on the industry as a whole?

ANDREW GLANCE: Look, I mean improvement, we’re focusing on what we need to focus on as a loyalty program.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think the interesting part to loyalty is that the average Australian is a member of 5.2, 5.4 loyalty program.

ANDREW GLANCE: So most certainly for us, we want to be the loyalty program of choice.

ANDREW GLANCE: So competition is very much alive and well here in Australia.

ANDREW GLANCE: We’re thinking about loyalty programs and I think for us, the overlay to that is also the, I suppose the thread so to speak around AI and technology and ways in which people are searching and discovering.

ANDREW GLANCE: It is changing every day.

ANDREW GLANCE: So for us, we just need to make sure that we are the best program we can be and again, making sure that our members are getting what they want from us, what they need from us.

CARLY NEUBAUER: I really love that as well.

CARLY NEUBAUER: Staying focused on your deliverables and your program.

CARLY NEUBAUER: But obviously, there’s so many big changes, not even including what we talked about, the RBA.

CARLY NEUBAUER: That there’s big changes and I know that AI specifically is a massive topic across, well, not just loyalty, but how it’s impacting loyalty.

CARLY NEUBAUER: For yourself, are there any particular call outs that you can talk to in life and loyalty, something that you’re most proud of?

ANDREW GLANCE: Look, I think life is all about balance.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think it’s important that you invest in yourself and your family.

ANDREW GLANCE: I mean, family are really the only constant, so you need to make sure that you are spending time with family.

ANDREW GLANCE: So I’m extremely proud of my family in terms of where my family is at.

ANDREW GLANCE: We’re all in a very good place.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think professionally, I’m extremely proud of where I’ve come from, and where I’m to, but probably more importantly, over the last two years, sitting in the seat that I’m sitting in, I feel extremely fortunate and extremely proud of what the loyalty team have delivered.

ANDREW GLANCE: Reflecting back on the last two years, we have delivered an enormous amount in a two-year period from a program perspective.

ANDREW GLANCE: Importantly, I think the relationship across the group is extremely strong.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think for me, it really is about making sure that in a personal and professional setting, you create that right balance.

ANDREW GLANCE: But from a work perspective, most certainly, I couldn’t be prouder of the team and what they’ve accomplished.

PAULA: Amazing.

PAULA: Well, listen, that’s all the formal questions, Andrew.

PAULA: From my side, of course, I’m going to make sure we link to the annual report, the most recent results, of course, in our show notes for this episode.

PAULA: I think I saw Qantas Loyalty mentioned 56 times throughout it.

PAULA: So the pride of the business in Qantas Loyalty is evident.

PAULA: And that’s, I suppose, again, what inspires me, as I like to think of myself as a commercial marketer.

PAULA: So we will make sure all of that’s in there.

PAULA: So I suppose my only final comment is, do you have any parting words, anything else you want to say before we wrap up for our audience?

ANDREW GLANCE: No, I just think thank you very much for the time.

ANDREW GLANCE: I’m always open to having these conversations.

ANDREW GLANCE: If it can create a greater sense or level of awareness around what the Qantas Freak and Fly program presents, I’m more than happy to do that.

ANDREW GLANCE: We are a very broad program that provides a lot of value.

ANDREW GLANCE: And I think when that’s understood, our members can actually get a lot of value for just that everyday behavior.

ANDREW GLANCE: So I think that’s a very important point.

ANDREW GLANCE: And I will leave you on the point that we announced a new product only two days ago, which is a new discoverability tool.

ANDREW GLANCE: Again, this comes back to addressing a pain point.

ANDREW GLANCE: This is basically providing our members with the ability to go into a search tool and basically discover the availability across our network from region to region across multiple dates and multiple cabins.

ANDREW GLANCE: The feedback today has been absolutely phenomenal.

ANDREW GLANCE: Not only from our members, but also industry commentators and leaders.

ANDREW GLANCE: I think within the first 24 hours, we had about a million searches.

ANDREW GLANCE: Wow.

ANDREW GLANCE: For me, it really is trying to again, make sure that every single day, every single week, you’re challenging yourself and the team and the business with regards to what’s possible next.

ANDREW GLANCE: Yeah, just another example of us leaning into and meeting the members around that need and another great announcement.

PAULA: Incredible.

PAULA: Well, as I said earlier, Andrew, your first time on the show, but certainly I hope it’s not the last.

PAULA: So on behalf of Carly, myself and our entire audience, thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

ANDREW GLANCE: Thanks, Paula.

ANDREW GLANCE: Thanks, Carly.

PAULA: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketeer Group, operating the Wise Marketeer and Loyalty Academy.

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