SHEIKE Society & the Art of Customer-Centric Loyalty with Mel Grafton (#715)

Mel: We don’t kind of start with the product or the promotion or the channel.

Mel: We always start our discussions with, what do we want her to feel?

Mel: What is the value to her?

Mel: Like we do, we talk about our customer in that way.

Mel: And that does lend itself to really different kind of conversations.

Mel: So it’s not just a discount here and a discount there.

Mel: Obviously there are discounts.

Mel: It’s a loyalty program.

Mel: People want to be rewarded in that way.

Mel: But it was about how do we design a program, but enhance profitability.

Mel: When we launched SHEIKE Society, we had an intimate party with our customers to celebrate the launch.

Mel: And it was amazing because this is a moment that we as a brand got to celebrate with our customers.

Mel: Our customers got to celebrate with us.

Mel: Our customers were talking to each other like at the end of the event.

Mel: You felt like you were best friends with everybody in that group.

Mel: A brand has done A, B and C, but they haven’t done X, Y and Z.

Mel: And you’ve got experience in X, Y and Z.

Mel: You go, OK, like I know I can add value here.

Mel: So that is something that drives me.

Mel: I’m feeling that I’m going to be able to bring value to a company.

Paula: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Paula: Today’s episode is hosted by Carly Neubauer, managing director of Elevate Loyalty, an Australian-based company specializing in loyalty and incentive services.

Paula: Carly is also the managing director of One Tap Group, a UK-based company providing loyalty payment services.

Paula: Enjoy!

Carly: Today, I’m speaking with Mel Grafton, head of digital and CRM at SHEIKE, who have recently launched their first ever loyalty program.

Carly: A women’s fashion brand in Australia, they have launched SHEIKE Society.

Carly: Previously leading e-com digital customer and loyalty roles at companies such as Oriton, Saba, Estee Lauder, Mel led the charge to bring loyalty to SHEIKE.

Carly: Please enjoy our conversation.

Carly: Hi Mel, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Carly: Welcome, I’m very excited to have you here.

Mel: Thank you so much Carly, me too.

Carly: Now, as you know, the first couple of questions we ask all of our guests, we ask firstly, your favorite loyalty business or non-fiction book?

Mel: You know what, I actually have only in recent times read one non-fiction book.

Mel: So this is very quick and easy to answer.

Carly: At least we know which one we’re talking about.

Carly: Fantastic.

Carly: Very easy.

Mel: So look, it would be The Five Dysfunctions of a Team.

Mel: Look, I can’t even say that I read it.

Mel: I audio booked that one.

Mel: I thought it was really great about it.

Mel: It is, although it’s like quite a simplistic fable about the workplace, it did really get the message across quite easy in an accessible way.

Mel: And it really made me think about my own leadership style and also the importance of healthy debate in coming to decisions.

Carly: Wow.

Carly: Okay.

Carly: Any examples, anything you can share with us?

Mel: Well, I mean, when we did the entire SHEIKE Society program, I think the biggest part of debate came up in the commercial considerations.

Mel: And when we were going through that part, so many, many healthy debate there between me and the finance team.

Carly: Well, that’s excellent that you had this book to lean on.

Carly: That’s awesome.

Carly: Great.

Carly: Great, great, great.

Carly: Okay.

Carly: Now, next question, of course, we ask all our guests, is favorite loyalty program?

Mel: Well, Sheik, of course.

Carly: Of course, outside of your own, of course, yes.

Mel: Outside of Sheik, Qantas, hands down Qantas.

Mel: So, I have been collecting points for the last couple of years.

Mel: I actually had close to a million points.

Mel: Wow.

Mel: At the end of last year.

Mel: And I decided to go to Europe.

Mel: And so I used all of my points to fly business and first class.

Mel: Now, this is something that in normal real life, there is no way I would have been able to afford to travel business and first class.

Mel: So, to be able to do that to go to Europe was, that in itself was amazing.

Mel: So, there was such value in that.

Mel: But then the actual experience of flying that way, I mean, Carly, I felt like a superstar.

Mel: They’re like, you know, I walked in, come on through Ms.

Mel: Grafton and let me show you to your seat, Ms.

Mel: Grafton.

Mel: And do you want a champagne before we get off, Ms.

Mel: Grafton?

Mel: And I was like, yes to all of this.

Carly: Absolutely, you do, yes.

Mel: I mean, why not?

Mel: Like, I was in for the whole experience.

Mel: I was, I had a shower mid-flight.

Mel: I had someone turn down my bed.

Mel: Like, it was incredible.

Mel: And it was an experience that I never have had otherwise.

Mel: So that to me hands down the best loyalty reward.

Carly: Well, I love that because we always talk in loyalty around creating the experiences that have that emotional connection and something that you will always remember, clearly.

Mel: I actually don’t think I could go back now though.

Mel: That’s the problem.

Mel: So it has been…

Carly: Yeah, how are you going flying economy now these days?

Mel: Well, actually I’m about to buy a new place.

Mel: So I will have no money for holidays whatsoever.

Mel: So I need to put my points up again to have any chance.

Carly: Nice, nice, nice.

Carly: Well, it’s a perfect example of how loyalty can work in your favor.

Carly: Collect all those points, accumulate that, and then have the most beautiful experience.

Carly: Why not?

Mel: Yeah, that’s it.

Carly: Good.

Carly: So talk to us about how you ended up at SHEIKE Society.

Carly: We’ll get there.

Carly: But what was your journey?

Carly: How did you start out in this space?

Mel: Goodness.

Mel: I mean, my background, I’ve been in the fashion e-com customer space for 20 years now.

Mel: And it all started, you know, I did my Bachelor of Business in Queensland, and then I flew to London, and that was when I got my first kind of proper job.

Mel: I was working in Mark Homes.

Mel: I was there for a few years, came back to Oz, and that’s when I started working at Ozstar, which is very much like, well, Foxtel.

Mel: Foxtel, yeah.

Mel: Yep.

Mel: And Luxotica, so your OPSM, your Sunglass Hut.

Mel: So I was working in those companies, in marketing, subscriber, community management roles.

Mel: After that, I went into beauty, and I have to say, I was like, being surrounded by makeup all day, every day was amazing.

Mel: So I was working at Estatal Order.

Mel: There, I was the online manager, and then I moved to Saba and Oriton, both really big Australian fashion brands.

Mel: You know, I guess for anyone listening internationally, Oriton is known for the mesh evening bags.

Mel: So there, I was head of e-comm and client services.

Mel: So everything digital from website, performance to SEM, SEO, CRM, affiliates, all of everything digital.

Mel: And after Oriton, I moved to Seafolly, and I was there for a number of years.

Mel: Again, another much loved Australian brand this time in Swinware.

Mel: But I was leading e-comm and customer.

Mel: And part of that role was really leading the insights and roadmap as well.

Mel: So I was working with their loyalty program, and then I joined SHEIKE.

Mel: And as you know, I’ve been there for over a year now, and we have just launched SHEIKE Society.

Carly: I love this.

Carly: Okay, so you’ve worked with some super big brands.

Carly: No doubt about that.

Carly: You know, the e-com space, you know, digital, you know, customer.

Carly: So you joined SHEIKE.

Carly: And why did you think, hey, they need a loyalty program?

Carly: Because it’s one of, there are not that many retailers left in Australia, especially in women’s fashion that do not have some sort of formal program.

Mel: That’s true.

Mel: That’s you’re absolutely right.

Mel: And when I joined SHEIKE, you know, loyalty was one of those initiatives that the business had already been talking about.

Mel: It wasn’t a new concept.

Mel: It’s just that there had been other things that had taken precedence and it just hadn’t got off the ground yet.

Mel: Me coming from Seafolly and they had a really amazing loyalty program called Beach Club.

Mel: You know, I learnt firsthand just the power that you can have with loyalty.

Mel: I don’t know if this is necessarily the same stat now, but back then, loyalty purchases were 70% of their B2C business.

Mel: It was huge.

Mel: So the impact that it had, you know, I was hooked.

Mel: I knew what it could bring to the company.

Mel: And so when, you know, the conversations about loyalty were happening at SHEIKE, I was like, right, I’m going to make this happen.

Mel: So I did.

Mel: I made it my mission to make it happen.

Mel: And obviously that is when I met yourself.

Carly: I’m very lucky.

Mel: Yes.

Mel: Thank you.

Carly: Yep.

Mel: And we did, you know, that discovery piece and what does that look like?

Mel: Lots of stakeholder interviews.

Mel: What does loyalty look like to SHEIKE?

Mel: What do we think this could mean for our business?

Mel: So we did that piece.

Mel: We looked at all the different data.

Mel: What’s happening internationally?

Mel: What’s happening locally?

Mel: We understood our tech capabilities as well.

Mel: You know, we have a POS system.

Mel: You know, how does that work with online?

Mel: What tech have we got?

Mel: You know, and then most importantly, we looked at everything that the customer had been telling us.

Mel: So we did lots and lots and lots of re…

Mel: We labored this point because we wanted to make sure what we were developing and doing was exactly what she wanted.

Mel: You know, we looked at customer surveys, not just recent ones, but we went back years.

Mel: Like, what is she telling us?

Mel: What does she want?

Mel: What does she value?

Mel: What motivates her?

Mel: What would be important to her?

Mel: And then we looked at developing a program and we developed a program.

Mel: So it was really just very much about our SHEIKE customer and giving her exactly what she wanted.

Mel: And then we launched it and SHEIKE Society, I think, was probably one of the coolest loyalty launches.

Mel: I mean, I might be slightly biased here, but, you know, no, it was cool.

Mel: Almost as cool as I’ve seen you.

Mel: The whole concept was SHEIKE Society rewards unlocked.

Mel: And so we had this huge, huge, huge gold key created.

Mel: And we had a model go through the streets of Sydney and like use this big key trying to unlock everything.

Mel: It was such a fun, we had so much fun with it.

Mel: It was like a real teaser campaign.

Mel: And so, you know, the whole process from, you know, those initial conversations to having this launch happen.

Mel: That was nine months and I was involved in every single step of it.

Mel: So I feel like I have 100% earned my loyalty stripes.

Carly: Oh, yeah, gosh, yes.

Carly: And I think there’s been a number of comments around around the speed at which you and the team and Sheik as a business were able to go from sort of zero to fully fledged in market with tech, the whole lot that in itself was massive.

Carly: And this is no question.

Carly: One thing I really love about you and your team is that you refer to her, she, always referring to that customer and putting that persona first and foremost through every single decision.

Mel: It’s true, actually, every decision, you know, we don’t kind of start with the product or the promotion or the channel.

Mel: We always start our discussions with what do we want her to feel?

Mel: What is the value to her?

Mel: Like we do, we talk about our customer in that way, and that does lend itself to really different kind of conversations, to be honest.

Mel: Like the KPIs kind of shift when you’re looking at things a bit more holistically, different teams have different input.

Mel: You’re looking at customer data that’s more trended, not just right this minute.

Mel: So absolutely, we definitely think about it that way.

Carly: Yes, that’s one thing that I think makes this work so well so far.

Carly: So you have a very clear tiered program in place for SHEIKE Society, but talk to us a little bit about one or two of the challenges that you may have faced while bringing this to life.

Mel: Honestly, that is a great question.

Mel: Look, I think, you know, for retail businesses in general, it’s falling into the discount trap.

Mel: And the challenge is being able to drive profits, but navigate those promo tactics and, you know, not fall into that trap of just doing discounts, discounts, discounts.

Mel: So for us specifically with SHEIKE Society, it was all around structuring things to have value.

Mel: So it’s not just a discount here and a discount there.

Mel: Obviously, there are discounts.

Mel: It’s a loyalty program.

Mel: People want to be rewarded in that way.

Mel: But it was about how do we design a program, but enhance profitability?

Mel: Like that was a big thing.

Mel: And things that add value that might not necessarily have a tangible cost to them.

Mel: So one example is, you know, offering non-discount rewards.

Mel: We launched with this thing called Status Hold.

Mel: Now, I believe we are the only fashion retailer doing this.

Mel: Don’t take me on it, but I think we are.

Carly: I think so, too.

Mel: I lead the first in fashion in Australia.

Mel: So, you know, obviously our customers go through different life stages.

Mel: You know, they might want to pause their membership at some time.

Mel: This is something that we offer her.

Mel: We also have a partnership with a company here called Look Smart.

Mel: So, on the rare occasion that, you know, it’s not necessarily the perfect fit, maybe she needs something taken up, she can go to them and have a discounted alteration.

Mel: Again, I think that’s the first in fashion loyalty as well.

Mel: You know, we give early access to sale events, to new drops.

Mel: We have exclusive access to events that you wouldn’t be able to normally go to.

Mel: And it was really about creating that emotional connection without just relying on price.

Mel: So that’s kind of how we’re tackling that discount trap.

Mel: I think as well, it’s about creating moments, like going back to the Qantas example, that was a moment that I could never have had otherwise.

Mel: So how do you know, obviously, it’s a, it’s a loyalty program.

Mel: There’s a calendar of events and key milestones, like keeping those perks feel special, not necessarily expected, but what else on top of that?

Mel: And the conversation then stops being, I guess, that two-way, like the customer and the brand, but then how do we evolve that into a conversation?

Mel: So that community piece and really building that, when we launched SHEIKE Society, we had an intimate party with our customers to celebrate the launch.

Mel: And it was amazing because this is a moment that we, as a brand, got to celebrate with our customers.

Mel: Our customers got to celebrate with us.

Mel: Our customers were talking to each other.

Mel: Like, at the end of the event, you felt like you were best friends with everybody in that group.

Mel: It was beautiful, but that is a moment.

Mel: And that community piece is something that we’re really striving for.

Carly: Absolutely.

Carly: And a well-dressed group, obviously.

Carly: I am very well-dressed.

Carly: Obviously well-dressed.

Carly: Now, you’ve done a beautiful job with it.

Carly: And some of those key features, the high value, but lower cost to the program, so important.

Carly: From a profitability point of view, but really creating value for your member.

Carly: I think that’s so fantastic.

Carly: And as you said, status hold means a lot to women.

Carly: You know, you’ve got these members or customers, like little customers, let’s just say, shopping with you for a length of time and really loving your brand.

Carly: They don’t want to be dropped out of a program because of a change or something happening throughout their life.

Mel: Why not?

Carly: Yeah.

Carly: Fabulous.

Carly: Fabulous.

Carly: Okay, cool.

Carly: So what about business career in general?

Carly: Like, what is a driving force for you?

Mel: Good one.

Mel: You know, look, for me, I want to feel like I’m adding value.

Mel: So even when you’re starting out and you look, or, you know, looking to change jobs, or you’re reading a job description, you know, understanding, is this something that is, am I excited by this role?

Mel: Do I think I can add value here?

Mel: You know, if a brand has done AB&C, but they haven’t done X, Y and Z, and you’ve got experience in X, Y and Z, you go, okay, like, I know I can add value here.

Mel: So that is something that drives me.

Mel: I’m feeling that I’m going to be able to bring value to a company, but also I’m in a space that is constantly evolving.

Mel: There’s always new tech coming out.

Mel: There’s always something new and exciting.

Mel: So that as well, that I’m constantly learning and evolving and growing in my own experience is really important too.

Carly: Gosh, yes.

Carly: And I think that’s the thing.

Carly: You’re never going to be sitting still in this industry and in this environment, whether it’s retail, whether it’s loyalty, whichever end of the spectrum you’re looking at, you’re never sitting still and crazy to think you would.

Carly: What about any key important lessons?

Carly: What would you say are your most important lessons, even over the last year, five years?

Mel: Yeah.

Mel: Never underestimate the value of culture and the relationship you have with your team and your boss.

Mel: I think that is something that makes you want to go to work.

Mel: It makes your team, like if you’ve got rapport with your team, with your boss, you bounce ideas off each other.

Mel: You know, work just naturally happens and flows.

Mel: So never, ever, ever underestimate that.

Mel: And that’s something that’s just it’s when it’s there, it’s magic.

Carly: Absolutely.

Carly: And brings that energy.

Carly: I mean, you’ve got it, but it really brings the energy between everybody.

Carly: I think that’s that’s one thing that stands out with you guys.

Mel: Yeah.

Mel: Yeah.

Mel: We’ve got a great team, actually.

Mel: Very, very lucky.

Carly: What’s one piece of advice you’d give to someone if they were starting out?

Carly: Because you have got such fabulous big brand experience, let’s be honest, in your e-com digital loyalty experience, what would you recommend to someone who’s starting?

Mel: Well, do you know what, even though I’ve had that experience, what I wanted to do when I was in high school and I was thinking about going to uni, I wanted to be an optometrist.

Carly: That’s weird, right?

Mel: Which was completely different, right?

Mel: I studied physics and maths.

Mel: When I went to uni, I actually started studying medical engineering, completely different.

Mel: To have then gone into marketing, advertising, e-com, I mean, e-com didn’t even exist when I went to uni, so it was a very different time.

Mel: I’ve grown up with that.

Mel: So I think the takeout here is you don’t have to have it all figured out because I sure as hell didn’t.

Mel: Very true, very true.

Mel: Hard working and be open to what happens, yeah.

Carly: Well, you’ve pointed out a very obvious truth that many of us went to uni when some of these roles and the way the industry looks now, it didn’t exist.

Carly: So you’re right, you’ve adapted your role with it over the years.

Carly: And obviously you found a really great place at the moment.

Mel: I remember when companies just first started sending e-mails out.

Mel: I actually was doing that when my dad’s first job in London.

Mel: I was creating e-mails and I shut up to think what they looked like.

Mel: I mean, they would have been hideous.

Mel: Companies didn’t have websites.

Mel: That wasn’t the norm then.

Mel: It was just such a different time.

Carly: Yeah, absolutely right.

Carly: Absolutely right.

Carly: No, that’s good.

Carly: And I think your point about starting out, keep an open mind.

Carly: Who knows what’s going to be happening in the next 10 to 20 years and what the industry is looking like.

Mel: Exactly.

Mel: Things are constantly evolving.

Mel: And with AI, everything like it’s going to be a different space.

Carly: I’m so sure.

Carly: What would you define as success?

Mel: Oh, look, that’s changed over the years.

Mel: You know, 15, 20 years ago, I thought it was the fancy title and the pay packet and the accolades.

Mel: And don’t get me wrong, those things are all great.

Mel: But I think now, and especially ever since COVID, being able to have a bit of a work-life balance.

Mel: You know, if you’ve got that, that’s success.

Mel: Having a great team, that is success.

Mel: Having a boss that’s supportive, that is success.

Mel: So my version of success has absolutely shifted over the years.

Mel: Yeah, I think, I think, yeah, if you can, if you can have a bit of autonomy and a supportive boss and a great team, like you’re onto a winner.

Carly: Yeah.

Carly: Well, your value set changes over time.

Carly: And obviously, perspective grows, it happens.

Carly: In regards, if we talk about the industry itself, so loyalty as an industry, what would you reflect on as the bigger game changes or biggest impacts that you’ve been seeing, especially across, whether it’s internationally domestic and also the different industries you’ve worked in, retail, etc.

Mel: Yeah, I’d say in recent years, it’s the explosion of all of the different loyalty apps.

Mel: So now that everybody’s got like a Shopify site or, you know, big commerce, being able to do loyalty is a lot easier.

Mel: You can very quickly download an app, connect it to your store, and be able to have a loyalty program up and running really, really quickly.

Mel: So I think there’s been an absolute explosion in that over the years.

Mel: And it really helps, I guess, those smaller brands and being able to get something online very quickly.

Mel: I think one of the failures though, is that it’s harder if you’ve got an omni-channel experience.

Mel: If you have stores, if you’ve got cause, a lot of these systems don’t actually talk to one another.

Mel: They don’t integrate properly, so that customer experience can be a little bit messy.

Carly: And you went through this as well.

Carly: I mean, you know this personally and professionally through SHEIKE Society is how to bring the systems together to make sure your online and in-store experience actually works together.

Carly: And it’s not that easy all the time, right?

Mel: It is not easy.

Carly: I say that lightly.

Mel: All I can say is we have some very smart people who work for us, who can do these things out.

Mel: It is not me.

Mel: Shout out to our wonderful IT team.

Mel: Like, yeah, it’s not easy.

Carly: Yeah, but you’ve done a brilliant job to do that, though, so that that in-store experience going in to buy something, scan obviously reflects into your account profile.

Carly: Same as online.

Carly: It is really fantastic.

Carly: You’ve all done a brilliant job.

Carly: All right, let’s do good, bad and the ugly.

Carly: What’s really good?

Carly: What’s really good?

Mel: Good is best practice.

Mel: And I think best practice when it comes to loyalty is getting rid of the set and forget mentality.

Mel: Yeah, I think a lot of people do use those apps that we talk about.

Mel: They connect the app.

Mel: They set up their flows.

Mel: They’re like great loyalty tick.

Mel: It’s done.

Mel: And I think that is the absolute worst way to think about it.

Mel: You know, just get rid of that set and forget mentality.

Mel: I actually was at a talk not that long ago and somebody there said something on stage which really resonated to me.

Mel: To set and forget is to set and stagnate.

Carly: And I was like, no.

Mel: So I think, you know, best practice and the good is to continually look at what you’re doing, optimize what you’re doing, look at customer surveys, look at feedback from customer care.

Mel: What is your customer telling you?

Mel: Do you need to pivot, change, edit?

Mel: Like, what is it?

Mel: But it’s continually listening to your customers.

Carly: That’s best practice.

Carly: Definitely.

Carly: And loyalty is ever evolving.

Carly: It’s never exactly as you said, a set and forget, or you will be superseded really quickly by somebody else.

Carly: That’s for sure.

Carly: Where do you think we have some room for improvement?

Carly: So what’s not necessarily super fabulous at the moment?

Mel: I think it’s just when brands aren’t consistent.

Mel: If you’re going to, if you’re saying you’re going to do something, do it and do it consistently.

Mel: If there’s a birthday surprise, if there’s some sort of preview to a sale, if that’s what you’ve built into your program, actually do it, deliver on it.

Mel: So just be consistent.

Mel: I think when you’re not consistent, that’s when you really need to pull up the socks.

Carly: Say what you’re going to do, do what you’re going to say.

Mel: That’s it.

Carly: Say that correctly.

Paula: Simple, right?

Mel: It should be simple.

Carly: Yeah, well, very good, good, good.

Paula: What should we avoid?

Carly: So industry-wise, what kind of things should be avoided, do you think, for loyalty?

Mel: I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this, but those cookie cutter programs, you know?

Carly: You’re allowed to say that.

Mel: Your customers, you know, often I will see programs that, you know, if you hide the logo, you actually don’t know what brand that is because they all look the same, they all feel the same, they’ve all got the same.

Mel: So I think avoid that.

Mel: Think differently and customize what you’re offering to actually mean something and have value for your customer.

Carly: Yeah.

Carly: And look, I mean, you know, as we know each other, it’s a super big passion of mine is find a point of differentiation.

Carly: Doesn’t have to be huge all the time, but something that stands out.

Carly: But as you said, customize to your customer.

Carly: It’s huge and it means so much.

Carly: Okay.

Carly: If you had one more thing to talk about about SHEIKE Society, anything else that you’re super proud of, that you love the most about it, other than the big gold key, that’s very cool, by the way.

Mel: You know what?

Mel: I mean, okay, there’s probably two things.

Mel: So one was how we delivered the program itself, right?

Mel: So, you know, we really listened to her feedback.

Mel: We listened to what she valued and we really built a program based on that.

Mel: That I think was really fantastic.

Mel: And then of course, you know, this big celebration at the end, we had this launch with our customers, very, very customer focused.

Mel: Everything that we did in delivering SHEIKE Society was very customer focused.

Mel: So that I’m super proud of.

Mel: The second thing would be just how amazing all of the different teams came together to make it happen and to make it happen very quickly.

Mel: You know, we did this in nine months from go to woe, which is incredible.

Mel: And I think just really talks to the amazing team at SHEIKE and the the quote that always stands out to me is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Mel: And that sums up SHEIKE and SHEIKE Society completely.

Carly: Absolutely.

Carly: You would not have been able to pull that off without everybody on board.

Carly: And we’ve talked about this a lot at Let’s Talk Loyalty with different guests around the best and the most efficient loyalty programs, whether it’s delivery and execution, is the ones where everybody’s on board or all different departments value the program, value the loyalty behavior or the loyalty experience.

Carly: And those are the ones that go, whether it is IT or finance, brand, marketing, everyone’s on the journey.

Mel: Everyone’s got to be aligned.

Mel: And I think that comes back to when we initially started the conversations, we were having those discussions with all of the key stakeholders from the get go.

Mel: Everyone was involved.

Carly: Yeah, absolutely.

Carly: Absolutely.

Carly: And a group of very smart people.

Carly: Doesn’t hurt.

Mel: Very smart.

Carly: What about yourself?

Carly: What about for yourself?

Carly: What are you most proud of for you?

Mel: Oh, do you know what?

Mel: Okay, so I have actually run two full marathons and I’ve competed in a powerlifting competition.

Mel: So, I have in no way a natural athlete.

Mel: Like that is just not who I am.

Mel: But what I like in skill, I absolutely make up for in determination.

Mel: So, if I set my mind to something, you know it’s going to happen.

Carly: So, no wonder the program went live in nine months.

Mel: Yeah, so I think that’s what I’m proud of.

Carly: Absolutely.

Mel: Actual determination.

Carly: Yeah, good on you.

Carly: And congratulations, all three of those very impressive feats.

Carly: Life and loyalty, what do you know for sure?

Mel: Life never turns out the way that you think.

Mel: And loyalty, look, that comes in the way of man’s best friend.

Carly: And in this case, your dog’s your best friend.

Carly: Oh, that’s so good.

Carly: Mel, thank you so much.

Carly: You know, I’m biased, so I definitely was looking forward to seeing you and talking to you about this fabulous program.

Carly: And thank you for your time today.

Carly: Great work.

Carly: Congratulations on all of your achievements.

Carly: It’s so good.

Mel: Thank you so very much.

Mel: And thank you for being part of our journey as well.

Carly: Very, very flattered, of course.

Carly: I’m a big fan.

Carly: Thanks again.

Mel: Thank you.

Paula: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketeer Group, publisher of The Wise Marketeer, the premier digital customer loyalty marketing resource for industry relevant news, insights and research.

Paula: Wise Marketeer Group also offers loyalty, education and training globally through its Loyalty Academy, which has certified nearly 900 marketeers and executives in 49 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: For global coverage of customer engagement and loyalty, check out thewisemarketeer.com and become a wiser marketeer or subscriber.

Paula: Learn more about global loyalty education for individuals or corporate training programs at loyaltyacademy.org.

Paula: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

Paula: If you’d like us to send you the latest shows each week, simply sign up for the Let’s Talk Loyalty newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com.

Paula: And we’ll send our best episodes straight to your inbox.

Paula: And don’t forget that you can follow Let’s Talk Loyalty on any of your favorite podcast platforms.

Paula: And of course, we’d love for you to share your feedback and reviews.

Paula: Thanks again for supporting the show.