Flight Centre’s World360 Rewards: Loyalty and Profitability Insights with James Kavanagh (#757)

Paula: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Paula: Today’s episode is hosted by Carly Neubauer, managing director of Elevate Loyalty, a loyalty experiences company, specializing in designing, implementing and managing B2C and B2B loyalty programs.

Paula: She’s also the managing director of Loyalty Economics, a global community and content site focused on turning loyalty into profitability.

Paula: Enjoy.

Carly: Hi, and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Carly: Today I have the privilege of interviewing and speaking with James Kavanagh, who is the Global Leisure CEO for the Flight Centre Travel Group, one of the world’s largest travel agency groups.

Carly: With 29 years of experience in the travel industry, James oversees a thriving leisure operation that has been meticulously reshaped and transformed to thrive in the post-pandemic travel industry.

Carly: Leading this division globally, the team has capitalized on robust, recognizable brands that are on track for unprecedented scale and profitability across eight global markets including Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, UK, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, and most recently Singapore.

Carly: Under James’ leadership, World 360 Rewards was recently launched to the Australian market in late November 2025 as the Travel Loyalty Program by Flight Centre Travel Group, creating and making journeys that are more rewarding every step of the way because travel is the point.

Carly: Please enjoy this episode.

Carly: James, a big welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Carly: Very, very happy to have you join us to discuss such an exciting new program in market.

Carly: And let’s be honest, this is not just any program launch.

Carly: So a very big welcome to you.

James: Thank you very much for having me.

James: It’s a pleasure to be here.

Carly: Now, before we start discussing World 360, which I love the name, by the way, we ask every guest two important questions.

Carly: So we’ll kick off with those.

Carly: Firstly, please tell us about your favorite business book.

James: Well, I’ve listened to the podcast many times and I’ve actually taken lots of tips from various other guests.

James: So I think it’s a great segment and a great question.

James: But one that I’ve taken a lot of inspiration from is a book, but it’s called Legacy by James Kerr.

James: And it’s a story about the all blacks, New Zealand rugby team, which really tells a story about how it can teach us about the business of life.

James: And effectively it digs into about 15 kind of key principles that the all blacks team, and if you know the all blacks, they’ve continued success over many, many decades.

James: And it talks about the principles that they live by.

James: And there’s actually so many in there, I’d highly recommend it, but I constantly draw inspiration, particularly there’s probably two that really stand out for me all the time, particularly in the role that I’m in now, and also speaking to a lot of leaders.

James: And that is, if anybody wants to hear a bit more, but it’s a great reminder of the role that you’re in.

James: You never truly own that role, and you’re just a custodian of the role.

James: And your job as a leader or as a human is always to leave it in a better place than you found it.

James: So it’s actually some great messages in there, but that’s one of my favourites.

Carly: We as hosts genuinely love this part of the hosting gig because we get to have such a great catalogue of books that we recommended and then genuinely read.

Carly: And since we chatted earlier, I love this.

Carly: And one example that really stood out in this book and your recommendation is how the leaders would sweep the sheds.

Carly: So tell us about that.

Carly: They sweep the sheds after the match, why?

James: Yeah, look, I think it’s one around, it’s kind of leave your ego at the door.

James: And it’s a lot of respect that actually is cultivated from those players as to, you’re not too big to do any job.

James: And I think it’s just that great reminder.

James: So there are many, many lessons in there, but I’ve got, I just take so much out of it personally.

Carly: I love it.

Carly: And no one is too important to serve the group.

Carly: So it’s great.

Carly: Now another big one.

Carly: And obviously with your experience in loyalty, I’m very keen to hear.

Carly: Your favorite loyalty program.

James: So I’ve talked about this.

James: I’ve thought about this a lot because I think about it in my role.

James: I’m exposed to so many.

James: And if you think about being in travel, I’m a huge fan of the airline programs and particularly how they have transformed and evolved over many decades has been quite incredible to watch.

James: I can’t call out a favorite, of course, in my particular position.

James: But what I will share is actually something, a moment that really stood out for me recently.

James: And my daughter lives in Germany.

James: She flies back to Australia quite often.

James: And she’s 18 years of age.

James: And she really just reinforced the power of recognition because she’s just reached silver status with one of the airlines.

James: And she was blown away when they recognized her and said to her, welcome back, and they asked for her order off the economy menu to make sure that they could just save it for her.

James: That was Qatar Airways that she was flying with.

James: And they basically said, we want to just make sure that we have your order in case we run out.

James: So when she arrived, she goes, oh my god, I feel so important.

James: I’m never flying any of your airline again.

James: And it’s just really, it’s a great lesson on the power of recognition and how you can do that in many programs, regardless of whether you have status or not.

James: But recognition is so important when it comes to customer engagement.

Carly: Especially early in her flight career as well, let’s be honest.

Carly: I mean, if she if she sticks to that, that’s it’s a long term member they have right there.

Carly: Very, very loyal.

Carly: Yeah.

Carly: So for you personally, James, and many call you JK, let’s set the scene around your career, your path and what led you to Flight Centre and World 360.

James: So the Express version, because it spans I’m in the travel industry for, I actually started studying about 30 years ago this year back in Dublin.

James: And I’ve been very fortunate to have a wonderful career in travel through multiple countries as well as multiple role types.

James: So it’s very much a grassroot story where I started on the front line selling travel, and then progressed through three different global travel companies.

James: And then I joined the Flight Centre Travel Group about 22 years ago in Sydney.

James: And then I progressed through general management, country management, and then became the Managing Director of the Australian Division.

James: And that was about eight weeks before the pandemic kicked off.

James: So great time to start a new role, possibly a great business experience.

James: And then for the last three years, I’ve been the CEO of the Leisure Travel Division.

Carly: What we do need to do for anyone who may not be as familiar with World 360, can you give us a short rundown?

Carly: Tell us about the program itself, because this is a bit of a game changer.

Carly: So it’s an exciting time to chat with you and only been in market for a number of months.

Carly: So tell us about the program and what does it do?

Carly: How does it function?

James: Yeah, so the World 360 Rewards program, it’s borne from the Flight Centre Travel Group.

James: And many people, for your global listeners, may or may not know the brand itself.

James: But Flight Centre, as a company, was founded in 1982.

James: But our actual CEO, who’s still the founder of the company many, many years later, he actually went to London in 1973 and started Top Deck Travel.

James: And since then, fast forward many, many decades, the company itself, the group, is now basically in 26 countries.

James: And effectively, we’re about a $25 billion travel business today.

James: Most people in Australia will be familiar with the Flight Centre brand, but they may not be aware that there’s actually over 30 different brands across the group.

James: And so when we looked at this, World 360 Rewards, it’s a new loyalty program that we’ve designed, that it started in three brands, just launched on November the 26th.

James: And the summary of it is that it’s a, if you think about joining, it’s free to join.

James: We also have a paid membership tier as well.

James: But in essence, we have points as a currency.

James: And when many loyalty programs look at having travel as part of a reward offering, travel is everything we do.

James: So travel is really the point of this program.

James: And there’s many ways for our customers to earn.

James: So they can earn through earning and redeem, they can earn across every single travel product that they book with us.

James: And that means over 500 airlines, a million hotels, 300 tests and different tours and so on.

James: So it’s quite an extensive loyalty program where you can earn and redeem across all travel and all channels that you book within.

James: A few other points to call out is that we have a points earning marketplace so that customer and we also have a number of strategic partners that makes it really easy to earn points every day.

James: And the summary of this is that it’s actually our company purpose is to open up the world for those who want to see and World 360 Rewards was born out of actually making travel more accessible and opening up the world through rewards.

Carly: And something you just mentioned a little bit ago.

Carly: What is it?

Carly: Travel is the point.

Carly: Such a brilliant tagline.

Carly: You’ve got to call that out.

James: Yes.

James: So and look, it’s a bit of a play on it, but travel is the point with the S on the end.

Carly: Yeah.

James: And that’s because we want to make sure that, you know, travel rewards can somewhat sometimes be challenging to access.

James: So when we look at it, the entire reward system is about travel experiences.

James: And sometimes in travel rewards, it can take a long time to accumulate the opportunity to get that reward and experience.

James: So the way we’ve designed the program, it’s not a status program, it’s a very accessible program.

James: And that means that you can basically pay partial pay with points, etc.

James: But we’ve designed a unique reward store.

James: And that reward store means that you can access points, something as simple as an experience at Dreamworld or Movieworld, one of the theme parks here in Australia, right the way through to a bucket list experience like the Grand Prix or the Super Bowl or a fashion show.

James: So it’s so expansive in terms of reward accessibility.

James: And that means that it doesn’t matter what stage of life you’re at, what budget, luxury, true to any type of consumer is able to access rewards.

Carly: This is so powerful.

Carly: The earn and redeem mechanism that can be while travelling and literally in the air and overseas and global experiences, but also localised as well.

Carly: I think that to your point, it makes it really accessible for everyday users, families, et cetera, when they can redeem their points for things that are in their local vicinity, as well as the exciting big experiences.

James: Yeah, 100%.

James: And look, I think that’s the part I love about it where obviously learning and understanding how accessible it is, it’s really complimentary to a lot of the travel programmes that exist today.

James: So, and we talk a lot about this triple dip mechanism.

James: So it’s not, while people might think, oh, well, I’m already a member of X Loyalty programme, airline programme.

James: Well, essentially, the benefit for a consumer is, well, how good, because you also get points by booking with us and you get points with your preferred airline programme or a hotel programme, whatever that might be.

James: And if you’re also paying a credit card, well, then you get to triple dip, which means that the…

James: It’s fantastic…

James: .

James: unlocked travel rewards is just so accessible.

Carly: And who doesn’t love that?

Carly: That’s absolutely…

Carly: And it addresses the partnerships in your channel partners, I imagine, where you’re not coming out as competitive, you’re not launching as this big competitive programme.

Carly: You are complimentary and which consumer or member wouldn’t love the ability to triple dip.

Carly: That’s fabulous.

James: Yeah.

James: And it’s actually…

James: I’m glad you said that because what I love about this is a lot of our travel partners and while we’ve got retail, financial, health care partners and so on, but a lot of our travel partners, and we’ve got quite an extensive number of preferred suppliers and partnerships in play, it allows our travel partners to be able to put accelerators.

James: So if they’re launching a new route or there is something that they want to create awareness around, our travel partners are putting three times bonus points on certain product offers.

James: So it’s really a points frenzy.

James: Like when you look at it and for customers to realize that they can actually get all these accelerators.

James: And we’ve seen great examples already with some customers.

James: One particular example that we had of a customer that was considering a cruise and they weren’t sure whether to choose us, but effectively when they saw the points accelerator on their cruise family holiday, they just, it was an old rainer and they booked on the spot.

Carly: Nice.

Carly: And you love those perfect family case study examples.

Carly: They’re brilliant.

Carly: Now, James JK, we need to make sure to call out, one thing I do think is really special here, you said this is not a status style program, but you do have a premium benefits tier.

Carly: But it’s still a really accessible price point for the value you’ve created into this premium benefits tier.

Carly: So let’s talk about that.

James: Yeah.

James: Look, it’s interesting.

James: I’ll touch on the status to begin with, because many programs have got status and they work exceptionally well.

James: But in the design of this program, we specifically wanted to go the opposite.

James: And the reason for that is we wanted to make sure that travel was accessible.

James: But also Australia, we’re quite an egalitarian company.

James: It’s actually one of our core values and philosophies.

James: And that means it’s access to all.

James: Australia is quite an egalitarian country, as you know.

James: So we made the choice in the design of this to actually have a program where we could have so many features that were accessible to as many of the population as possible.

James: However, we also decided then to do a subscription paid tier.

James: And effectively, it’s $249, but it immediately unlocks $600 worth of value.

James: So for consumers that subscribe to that, it effectively gives them a reward straight away that pays for itself.

James: So they can easily access a traveler award.

James: But it’s so much more than that.

James: It gives the ability for travelers who may not have status or access to be able to get into lounges.

James: So they can access free lounges.

James: They get a lot of disruption management services and a whole range of different benefits that come with it that really actually provides extensive value.

James: So we think with something like that, it gives access to money can’t buy offers.

James: And it’s a really nice plus up for those that are wanting something more.

Carly: Now, I know that we’ve kind of cut, we’ve discussed now the way the program operates and there’s some brilliant features and we’ll continue to talk through that.

Carly: One thing I’d love to go back to with you is for such a sizeable program, you have got such a huge team which we should talk to as well.

Carly: I’m sure I’m not the only one who’d be interested to know.

Carly: How does it start?

Carly: If you go back to the beginning, are you sitting around a boardroom and someone says, hey, let’s launch the biggest program the world has ever seen, or were you out for a run and you have this idea and go, actually, let’s do this.

Carly: How does this start at the very beginning as an idea and then talk through the design and how it came to life?

James: Yeah, great.

James: Well, it really came about actually in the post-pandemic phase of travel recovering.

James: I mentioned I started in the role about three years ago, and we were looking at a whole range of things to actually say, what does our company look like in three, five, seven years?

James: And out of that came, as you can imagine, so many different ideas.

James: But one of them was around actually the strength of our offering as a group.

James: And we operate a portfolio of brands, which is quite diverse, but we never really figured out how to unlock the full potential of the group.

James: So in doing so, we were looking for new engines of growth that we could actually see that would accelerate our business in ways, but would also give our customers reasons to choose us more.

James: Travel is a highly competitive marketplace, so we wanted to make sure that we could look for new revenue streams.

James: We also wanted to find ways to connect with new partners, reach new customers.

James: But most importantly, then, it’s actually how do we give our customers more that actually says that gets them traveling more.

James: So we had multiple meetings around a range of different initiatives.

James: And I will shout out to Ellipsis, a company that we’ve used that has really helped and shaped our program.

James: They’ve been on this journey with us for so long.

James: The inter from day one, actually, since we decided to go on the journey.

James: I will say it has been a journey because a lot of people, we are a travel business and we don’t have expertise in core loyalty, which is an industry in itself.

James: But we wanted to make sure that we were building something that would be a commercial loyalty business and that we could actually stand up and actually develop solutions that would set us apart.

James: Unlocking the full potential of the group was one of the core drivers in this space.

James: And we actually had to really drill into, well, what are those core problems that we’re trying to solve right now?

James: So if you think coming out at a pandemic, travel was just taking off and accelerating at a rate of knots.

James: But we were thinking about, well, what happens when it starts to plateau and growth starts to stabilize?

James: So the next frontier was, well, what can we do to accelerate growth?

James: And that was the concept of, well, what about if we bring in a loyalty program?

James: Now, we did have a loyalty program many years ago, and we didn’t do a great job with it at the time.

James: It was probably wasn’t designed very well.

James: So you can imagine there was a lot of fears launching a loyalty program because when people don’t necessarily know the mechanics of designing a lot of program, they just remember the scars of when it went wrong.

James: So the biggest journey was taking, and we had to take a lot of people on a journey around education, around the full potential and what is unlocks.

James: And you mentioned around, did I actually pick up the idea on a run?

James: Well, every Saturday morning, I listen to Let’s Talk Loyalty.

James: And that is when I’m running around a neighborhood.

Carly: So Let’s Talk Loyalty should take credit for your idea.

Carly: No, I’m joking.

James: You have some phenomenal people, phenomenal programs, and very lucky in the risk part.

James: When you think about what happens around, you can launch a program, but what happens if you have gamers and you have people that are going to abuse the program?

James: So it’s just getting inspiration from everywhere to design the program that’s right for us.

James: And fast forward two years, we have built a commercial loyalty business, and we’ve come on a phenomenal journey to design something that we believe is going to be a really sustainable future engine of growth.

Carly: It’s so impressive as well.

Carly: I’m glad that Let’s Talk Loyalty could be part of the journey, but I’m sure you’ve got such a strong team.

Carly: How did you get everyone in the business on board?

Carly: Because it’s one thing to say, yes, we’re going to bring this ecosystem together and loyalty is the direction we’re taking.

Carly: But and obviously sometimes our guests, we ask them how they get the C level on board.

Carly: Well, we’ve covered that because you are the C level, you’re the senior.

Carly: But how do you get the rest of the business behind this?

James: Yeah, so often with initiatives like Loyalty Strategies, I’ve often heard various marketing leaders speak about it and sometimes the strategy was born in the marketing department and they had to engage the C-suite.

James: From our loyalty programme strategy conception, it was designed with the leisure executive team.

James: So my direct team went through a series of workshops and then we designated a subgroup to work with our consulting partners and that meant that we were bringing in core expertise from a variety of different parts of the business to really work on what is going to be the solution.

James: Getting people on board is really an extensive journey and there’s multiple stakeholders involved from A, getting board funding, true to actually getting the business to understand the mechanics of loyalty, the commercial structure that sits behind it, the key business drivers that you’re aiming to uplift, the problem that you’re trying to solve.

James: But there’s a huge amount of change that has to come true.

James: So one of the things that we did, which I mentioned before, was we actually did a senior leadership conference and we brought our top 60 senior leaders together here in Brisbane.

James: And that was part education about loyalty, part inspiration about the opportunity and part studying multiple loyalty programs.

James: So rather than spending two days in a boardroom, we actually did a field trip and studied 12 different loyalty programs across the market, across every sector from retail, travel, financial, and so on.

James: And all of those learnings brought the executive team on a journey to land at a place as to this is the right move for us.

Carly: I love that example and we have chatted before and you mentioned that really investigating other loyalty programs and major ones irrespective of the industry and really delving into that.

Carly: Did you have any disagreements?

Carly: Did people just say actually no or I like this better than that?

James: Look, we definitely had a lot of ideas and we had a lot of doubters as well.

James: And we also had lots of lessons and aha moments.

James: And so for example, one of the things that we realize is that we have a business of two and a half thousand consultants on the front line here in Australia alone.

James: And what is crucially important is that every time a customer has an experience with one of our travel experts, that they actually convey the passion behind the program and they truly understand it.

James: Because the last thing that we wanted to happen was we didn’t want our front line to go, this is a head office initiative.

James: And something is conceptualized and top down deployed, because we’re not a top down type organization.

James: It’s all about engagement, empowerment, and making sure that our people are bought into this strategy.

James: So going through the process, and we are still on the journey because if you think we just launched 26th of November, that education piece with such a comprehensive program, to make sure that our consultants are experts on the front line is key.

James: So education, I would say for any of your listeners, never underestimate the power of education.

James: And particularly as a leadership team, when you’re on the journey here, and think about your own learning journey, those who are just starting to sell the program, their learning journey is months behind.

James: So I think the key message there is a lot of patience, and but literally just the simplicity of the program is gonna be key.

James: And we did that, we learned a lot actually by going into different stores and seeing how on board various businesses that have loyalty programs are actually succeeding with it.

Carly: I’m really glad you’ve mentioned that and discussed that because that is such an important area that we talk about in Loyalty and in the episodes.

Carly: It can be a retail program as an example, but how do you really get frontline staff?

Carly: They’re buying their support, the training, the education and never really forget how important that group and that cohort is to the success of a program.

Carly: So thank you for taking us through that.

Carly: I’d love to know if you were nervous, you’re about to launch this huge program.

Carly: You’ve got everybody on board, everyone’s excited, you’ve done the education with your consultant staff, the board are on.

Carly: Are you nervous when you’re launching?

James: Well, as I said to all of my team, if you do not feel sick in the stomach and off the launch of this, we’re not going big enough.

Carly: Okay, we need to keep that as a measure.

Carly: Feel sick equals, we’ve got a good program.

James: And look, it’s a risk because at the end of the day, you can conceptualize, you can do customer focus groups, you can do all of these things, but until you reach material scale and you’re using loyalty and points as a currency of influence, the big question is how is the customer going to respond and what features and benefits of the program are truly going to land?

James: So, with that, there are so many fail points that you’re thinking about.

James: And even from day one through to day five, we spoke with a lot of experts and we met some at the Australian Loyalty Association, their conference as well.

James: We heard great talks about the actual how the program will be hacked and what to look for in day one to five.

James: And all of the things that people called out mostly happened.

James: And so I think the great thing was we had built a lot of security measures and everything in the program to pick up and detect anything that could potentially go wrong.

James: But also watching consumer behavior is really interesting as well.

James: So there was a lot of things that we were predicted to happen, which did happen as well.

James: So an example of that was we were really surprised with the cohort and the various populations.

James: So our average age is about 55 in our Flight Centre brand, for customers offline shopping in store or to our call centre.

James: But online is about 45.

James: And the biggest fastest cohort was under 30 years of age.

James: And so we saw this really interesting shift where all demographics started to engage because the program was built around gamification to connect with some demographics.

James: And you just see the responsiveness around different cohorts of Australian consumers reacting in different ways.

James: So that was quite good.

James: That was reassuring.

James: But certainly a lot of things that you pick up from various experts when they say watch out, that will happen, that will happen, true to form, they generally did.

James: So I think we were well prepared, but you can’t prepare for everything.

Carly: So true.

Carly: Great preparation, though.

Carly: I love that you’re able to say, yep, those things we were expecting to go wrong, they went wrong.

Carly: Were there any that didn’t?

James: Well, I’ll share with you one, sorry, there is one that I thought I’d call out, is that we did quite an extensive pre-mortem in advance of this.

James: And that was literally, what are all the things that could actually, if we were to completely fire holes in this, what are all the areas that the program could fail?

James: And that actual preparation helped us a lot in the lead-up to life.

Carly: That’s brilliant.

Carly: And it is something that we hear a lot of big programs do, the pre-mortem.

Carly: Were there any things that you didn’t expect to go wrong or maybe just, let’s call them challenges?

Carly: Any of those that popped up that everyone went, whoa, that wasn’t the norm, that is not what we’re expecting?

James: Not necessarily major challenges, but it’s interesting when you see certain things and you’re taking the program live and then you visualize it in market and then the adaptability to change quite rapidly.

James: So I think in the lead up to it, there was a lot of feedback that we were getting from so many people because as I said, we train so many of our consultants, so many of our employees, even our board members.

James: And our board members have contacted us around because they’re a consumer and they’re also a board member.

James: And they’re talking about it.

James: So the amount of feedback channels that we had coming true about a glitch here or that doesn’t work or something in the app is not in the right place straight away.

James: And people don’t understand this part.

James: So there’s a lot of rapid learning around actually is the message getting true and what do we need to rapidly iterate.

James: So for example, we have a points earning marketplace.

James: And to go we are an app first loyalty program.

James: And to go into it, it just clearly was not visible at all.

James: So to be able to make something visible where you can see there’s a lot of huge earning potential, all of those elements and we are still we are iterating on the go constantly.

James: And we said this is version one, but set the expectation for what version three looks like and version five looks like.

James: And they’re all the things that we’re constantly thinking about because it is not a static set and forget program.

James: This is one that is going to be innovating constantly.

James: There was one in particular campaign that we ran with a variety of travel partners.

James: And I think when we crammed so much into the launch, then trying to get that message across with everything, it creates risk.

James: So it’s just simplified a message, simplified a message and stay on point.

James: So you can say it in an elevator or to a 12 year old, that they can actually convey that message.

Carly: Yeah, such a great tip as well, because it’s exciting times, though, especially when you’ve got such fabulous partners, no doubt, wanting to bring so much to the forefront, but then realising that consumers are still excited the fact that it’s here and it’s live and they’ve got to digest all of this at the same time.

James: Yes.

James: Well, we have, if you think about the breadth of our travel company, if you look at travel more broadly, one in every three travel bookings that is not booked direct in Australia, that goes through an intermediary, comes through one of our brands.

James: So some of the key challenges that we found and are still finding like any new programme is that it is so expansive and there is so much in the value proposition.

James: So simplicity is paramount.

James: So when we try to bring this programme live, we just break it into three key pillars around join, earn, travel more and what are the fundamentals that sit underneath that.

James: When you’re educating a workforce the size of ours, it’s crucially important.

James: We can see those that you get with any journey that you’re on.

James: You’ll get your early adopters.

James: You’ll get those that are obsessed with loyalty programmes straight away.

James: We’re now into the early majority and moving into the late-majority stage and phase of it.

James: And we need to try and get as many people through.

James: We know there’ll be laggards that won’t come on board.

James: But effectively, it’s that constant, constant education and simplification.

James: Starting out, we think that the reward is terrific.

James: And what we’re trying to do now is we’re obsessed with how do we make sure that we can get as many redemptions going through as quickly as possible.

James: And that consumers can actually see that they can access those rewards.

James: So education piece for us right now is paramount.

Carly: I always love to ask about metrics and if there’s any particular key ones that you’re looking at.

Carly: And it is early in the piece, so it’d be interesting to hear this.

Carly: Is redemption one of those?

Carly: Are there others specifically that you’re measuring on?

James: Yes.

James: Well, we’ve built a program with a five-year runway.

James: So, when you think about measurements, we’re looking at the journey that we need to go on.

James: And it’s not, obviously, I’m a businessman here as well, so we have to build a commercial loyalty business and the outcomes that you want are all of the core metrics that you’re looking to achieve around repeat customers, activating new customers, activating dormant customers, and also growing basket size and a range of other metrics.

James: To begin with, of course, we’re obsessed with new members and enrolments like any new program.

James: And with that, it’s the engagement piece.

James: We’re looking at key metrics around what is the basket size lift between existing shoppers that aren’t a member and those who have just become a member and just looking at those differences so far.

James: Demographics are key for us.

James: And we know that this is a journey and an evolution where we’ll actually identify more behavioral metrics as to what are those behaviors showing up.

James: What’s really terrific for us with this program is that we’ve really transformed the operating model and what it allows us to do is the richness of data that we will capture now is quite extensive.

James: We’ve launched a whole range of new apps.

James: In fact, we launched four new travel apps.

James: So the download rate of those is key.

James: We’ve launched a new loyalty management system.

James: We’ve launched a new CRM system.

James: We’ve launched a whole new data marketing cloud as well.

James: And there’s so many different facets of the program that’s really built up significant capability.

James: So you can imagine with all of these new platforms, what is key is what are the most valuable metrics at different stages of our journey?

Carly: Absolutely.

James: Yeah.

James: So it is a journey we’re aware of that and it will progress through different stages around different data capture points.

James: The key is we have so much data.

James: The most important thing is, can we use that for measurable action?

James: As a travel company, most customers on average would travel about 1.6, 1.8 times a year.

James: Often the data capture point is only at that point of interaction for us as a travel company.

James: Now we have so many ways to capture a whole range of different pieces of information.

James: Through the travel app, we’re already capturing bucket list destinations.

James: And that’s through gamification, where we’re using points as an exchange to capture more data.

James: We’re also capturing insights on where might your next travel destination be if you had to choose just one.

James: And the beauty of this then, it allows us to be a lot more targeted with personalization and to provide a range of different connection points with the customer, far greater than 1.6 times a year when they are actually traveling and booking with us.

Carly: Now, there are so many things I want to ask you here, but one thing I will call out that is great from a consumer member point of view, where you mentioned a great data capture point is asking that question around bucket list.

Carly: But one thing that your app and your program does really well is short and sharp.

Carly: It’s not a long onerous survey, which sometimes we can be a little bit tempted to do in loyalty because we want to get a lot of information out of members.

Carly: World 360, quick, sharp question in and out and they’re rewarded.

Carly: It’s nice and clean.

James: Yeah.

James: Look, that’s what we’d all love a one-click on everything these days, because information, if somebody is willing to give up information in this day and age when every company is trying to capture it, you’ve got to have to make it easy and it’s got to be valuable whereby if I’m going to exchange a piece of information, I’ve got to get something in return for it.

James: Otherwise, consumers are just too sharp and they certainly won’t give it up because they know that they’ll be spammed forever with it.

James: In essence, some of the challenges and opportunities for us is, how do we make things like that joining experience super quick?

James: Then, if you’re going to capture a piece of information, keep it short enough that somebody is willing to give that insight, but then use it in a way that you can actually convey value back to the customer at a certain point of time.

James: One of the data points that we captured was, for most Australians, their bucket list destination is Northern Lights.

James: How do you use that information?

James: Well, then, you make sure that Northern Lights is accessible, understood, you’re providing insights back, and you’re conveying information back.

James: That can be true inspiration stories, or it can actually be around deals that you might put it on.

James: But it’s doing it in a way that it’s actually meaningful and not overloading the individual whereby they’re willing to give you that piece of information.

Carly: Yeah.

Carly: Now, you did also mention that the number of new systems, technology, apps, a lot has gone live in a short amount of time.

Carly: Tell us about your team, the size.

Carly: You’ve also increased a lot of new people into the business in a short amount of time as well.

James: Yeah, we have built a whole new commercial loyalty business with over 50 employees working directly for the loyalty business, who are supported by an expanded product management and engineering team, and then a significant amount of support throughout the entire business, from learning and development departments to every single part of our business.

James: Loyalty touches about 26 different systems when you think about it and the connection points, so it is significant in terms of the reach it has.

James: So getting this right has been key.

James: The forming of the team was a phenomenal journey because to create a commercial loyalty business with a culture so strong as the Flight Centre Travel Group, we went on a journey to really select a beautiful blend of people who have core travel IP, marketing IP and brought in experts and loyalty to blend a new business together.

James: The leader of this business is a guy by the name of Clinton Hearn, who’s our executive general manager, and a shout out to Clint.

James: I know you better be listening to this, Clint.

James: And he will be great to have in your show in the future as well.

Carly: Absolutely, yeah.

James: But Clint’s IP and understanding of customer marketing, he was the chief marketing officer for Flight Centre.

James: So Dan, bringing a bench beneath Clint with core loyalty expertise across a range of partnerships, customer experience, product management technology, et cetera, has really been the perfect marriage for us to build a business from the ground up.

Carly: So impressive.

Carly: So obviously with that amount of people, this amount of effort, what does it look like next?

Carly: What’s the future holding?

Carly: What can you tell us about for next phase?

Carly: You said this is a long-term journey.

James: Yeah.

James: Well, it really is just a beginning.

James: And that’s what we’re really excited about.

James: I mentioned that we have 30 brands across the group.

James: We’ve launched three of those brands so far.

James: So now the decision point for us is where do we continue to grow in terms of expanding our reach?

James: Because we’re a diverse portfolio brands, travel customers shop generally by need state.

James: So if you are going away on an individual girls trip, you might decide, I want a specific type of holiday and I’m going to book this with Flight Centre brand within the group.

James: But the next time you might be traveling on a luxury bucket list, one of a kind holiday with travel associates.

James: And that you might be doing with your partner and you may choose another brand.

James: But then the next trip you could be going on with your small business or medium-sized business.

James: You might be traveling for business and your need state is different.

James: So we’re looking at a range of things as to what does our business travel proposition look like and a whole range of things around growth in the future as to which brands and geographies we grow into next.

James: The partnership pipeline is expansive.

James: It’s really, really big.

James: And I think showing that it’s really complimentary because of the reach of customers, the reach of leisure and business travelers that we have access to.

James: It’s a very attractive proposition whereby we’re talking to a lot of payments companies.

James: We’re talking to a range of different everyday partners that are looking to actually partner up.

James: Because I think in this day and age, it’s really interesting.

James: I don’t think it’s brand versus brand anymore in business.

James: It’s ecosystem and partnerships and all these companies coming together to create a value proposition that you can start to value stack benefits and opportunities that increases the reason why a customer will select you as a company.

Carly: Well, there is no doubt we will be having Clint back on the show to hear a little bit more in the next six to 12 months to hear the next stages and phases because there is so much more coming for World 360.

Carly: Before we do wrap up though, let’s talk and wrap up a bit about you, JK.

Carly: What’s your style in business?

Carly: You’ve talked about so many people that you’re leading now and obviously you’re going to lead them into such a big long-term play and loyalty and commercialization here.

Carly: How do you lead a team this size?

James: A, loving it every day first and foremost and just having the opportunity because leadership is a privilege.

James: I thought and opened with the beginning of the book Legacy.

James: I think the most important thing is actually when you’re working with a team, making big moves is really important for us, but doing it in a way that we’re setting up this business, that it will survive and outlast all of us.

James: The greatest lesson in life and business is that your time here is not permanent.

James: I think when you apply that mindset to it, it’s actually whatever we do, pass it on and leave it in a better place than we found it, because travel, if you look at it, has been around and will continue for decades to come.

James: So for us to be able to build something that we can get future generations traveling, experiencing the world, that is our job as leaders to be able to actually pass this on and create new leaders for the next generation, but create a business that will outlast us all for the next 100 years and beyond.

Carly: And a really smart guy said to me a few weeks ago and we caught up that it’s choice, not chance, will change the future.

Carly: Thank you, James.

James: My personal mantra, it’s one of my favorites.

Carly: It’s a great one.

Carly: It’s a really great one.

Carly: And I do love this show for that exact reason.

Carly: We get to hear some not only fantastic insights into loyalty, but also some really smart people sharing some great intel.

Carly: So it’s fantastic.

Carly: Thank you for your time today.

James: Yeah, my pleasure.

James: And if I can shout out one last thing, grab one more second, and that is to thank you for the inspiration.

James: And also with your podcast that you did at the time with Jackie about lifeblood.

James: And so I think that was a really special podcast and I really enjoyed that and I have become a member.

James: So if more members could help out there too as well, that would be great.

James: Thank you.

Carly: Oh, brilliant.

Carly: And yes, a huge shout out to Jackie and Red Cross Lifeblood.

Carly: It’s a brilliant program.

Carly: Thank you, JK.

Carly: Really loved chatting with you today and look forward to seeing the next successes for the program.

James: Thank you for having me.

James: All the best.

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