Panera Bread is a US bakery chain of over 2,000 cafes and it operates one of the restaurant industry’s largest loyalty programmes.
In early 2020, it dramatically changed the loyalty industry with a disruptive subscription proposition, offering unlimited coffee for just $8.99 a month.
Guided by a clear insight on customer needs from it’s member base, it has earned respect around the world for creating a whole new business model, leveraging the power of subscription psychology to delight its members.
In this fascinating discussion, I’m joined by Meenakshi Nagarajan, SVP, Recurring Revenue and Loyalty at Panera Bread, who shares some of the challenges that they overcame to create this incredible success story, as well as its latest strategy – partnering with other like-minded brands to drive further disruption and ultimately, extraordinary growth from this paid loyalty proposition.
2) Panera Bread Subscription Loyalty – Press Release – February 2020
3) Panera Bread
Speaker 1 (0s):
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Hello and welcome to episode 169 of let’s talk loyalty, where I’m excited to be chatting with a truly disruptive brand in the loyalty industry.
Many of you will be aware of the incredible interest created when Panera bread launched one of the first loyalty subscription programs using a subscription model for unlimited coffee. Now, for anyone listening, who’s not familiar with the brand Panera bread is an American chain of bakeries and cafes with over 2000 locations throughout the country. And I also found out it also has one of America’s largest loyalty program memberships.
I’m joined today by Meenakshi Nagarajan, Senior Vice President of recurring revenue and loyalty at Panera Bread, so I hope you enjoy our conversation all about subscription style loyalty.
So first and foremost, welcome to “Let’s Talk Loyalty”.
Thank you, Paula. Thank you for having me. It is a, it’s an honor to be a part of this conversation, which really digs deeper into loyalty. And it’s, it’s a field that I’m clearly very interested in you, a lot of great examples of something that the community can learn from.
Oh, I’m delighted. I think what we, what we discovered when actually actually just talking before between us was a shared love of learning and there seems to be, you know, very much a hunger from everyone. I think they did our level. We just really want to do good work and there isn’t enough information out there. So definitely I know the audience is going to be super excited to hear all about Panera bread. Speaker 2 (3m 12s): Yeah. Likewise, I’m, I’m excited to get into this discussion and, you know, share some of the, the great brands that I’ve been part of and really talk through where we’re going next, because I do think that’s a fast evolving place and you know, and it’s, and it’s crossing over industries very, very rapidly. Speaker 1 (3m 35s): Yeah, for sure. And you know, what I liked about what you talked about before with payment actually is you used the word disruptive and definitely what Panera bread is doing is disruptive. So I think I’ve mentioned subscription loyalty to, you know, practically everyone I’ve spoken to on this show. And I think Panera bread is very much the industry leader, so I’ll be dying to get into all of that. But listen, before we start talking about all the exciting work you’re doing, tell me your favorite loyalty statistic, please. Okay. Speaker 2 (4m 6s): Yeah. The favorite loyalty statistic, you know, it, it stood out to me once when, when we think about growing brands, when we think about really thinking, how do we bring more customers into whether it’s restaurants, whether it’s CPG, we always focus on who’s the new customer that we’re going to go acquire, but there was a study that was done, I think by Bain group. And it’s been repeated a few times that talks about just a small 5% increase in customer retention actually can add your overall profitability by up to 50 to 70%. And you know, and that to me is very powerful and really goes into the heart of why loyalty exists and how you think about structuring programs, which is not just focused on getting new customers in. And I think that’s really important, but also giving another, the reason for your existing customers or someone who’s given you. One, try to come back again. How do you engage with that? So that that small increase in retention actually has really big, substantial profitability business impact. And it’s important to keep that in mind. Speaker 1 (5m 16s): Yeah. It’s the perfect one to open Whitman actually, I think, you know, maybe senior management haven’t had the same level of exposure to loyalty statistics as those of us, obviously who love to talk about it like we do. And, and you’re absolutely right. Bain did that research. And when we released this show, actually I will just have released an episode as well from bane and from the man himself, Fred Reichheld and he used a great term. And actually, and I know you’re going to love us. He basically, he quoted Tony Shay. I don’t know if he ever came across the, the former CEO of Zappos. Yes. Yeah. And what apparently Tony used to say Minakshi, and it’s exactly the point that you’re making, he basically that, you know, the cost of acquiring new customers, if you have to spend money to acquire them is like a tax for not retaining your customers in the first place. And I mean, what, what incredible clarity, you know, it’s just exactly what you’re saying. Yeah. Speaker 2 (6m 12s): Yes, absolutely. And, and I love that, that you spoke to Fred, I’ll be, I’ll be curious to get into that because I, I think he was the one who created the whole net promoter score idea, too. It all comes down to that customer engagement customer experience and in today’s world. Right. It’s more about when, when it’s so hard to break through and someone’s actually given you a try, like, how do you make sure that you bring them back in total cost of retention has to be a strategic one. And really that is the crux of why companies invest in loyalty programs and drive that engagement. Yeah. Speaker 1 (6m 49s): And your background is absolutely perfect as well. I think coming from a digital background and particularly your time with Domino’s. So tell us a bit about your career and actually over the last, maybe 10 or 12 years. Speaker 2 (7m 3s): Yeah. I’m happy to, you know, after I started my career more in terms of data and strategic consulting, I went into a business school and then I wanted to switch into brand marketing. And because what appeals to me is, is really how do you take a customer insights and take something which could be a commodity and really drive that engagement with, with customers. And it’s very much about unlocking insights and driving value from that. And that’s what a brand is. So, you know, and, and I went into, it started off with, in the CPG world. I spent few years at gentleman’s in PepsiCo, but then I switched to the restaurant world. They had to takes another level of brand experience and hospitality. And there’s so much to learn from, and to your point, I spent about six years at Domino’s and, and I’ve been with Panera for, for seven months or so. And prior to that, I had a brief stint at Sweetgreen, so different scaled restaurants, but at the end of the day, it’s all about hospitality and really being true to what you’re offering and what your brand promise is. Yeah, Speaker 1 (8m 14s): For sure. And again, sweet pea green is a gorgeous brand. Domino’s is just so incredibly impressive. And actually just for listeners, and I’m sure you have this very regularly. And I remember reading the Dominos describes itself as a technology company, which is incredible. When you think about, as you said, we consider it as a hospitality business, but digital and everything you were doing, you were a director of digital in there and actually, am I right? Speaker 2 (8m 43s): Yes, I did. I spent about five and a half years. I held a few different positions, everything from brand positioning, product innovation, but I also spent a year or more kind of leading all of our digital marketing efforts there. And, and it is really about thinking about what Domino’s offers, right. It’s first and foremost, it’s convenience and digital was a way to disrupt. That was a way to think about taking convenience to that at most need. And what better way to do that then using technology? Speaker 1 (9m 13s): Yeah, absolutely. So tell us then what was it, the tempted you to Panera bread was that this disruptive innovation of subscription, Speaker 2 (9m 22s): Abs you know, when I will say when, when the naira launched its loyalty program, I was at Domino’s and, and we looked at it with envy because they did such a great job in terms of being a pioneer in launching our loyalty program. And, you know, in this world of where there are so many different ways to go as to what a loyalty program is and what a brand is. I think Panera has had a very clear point of view, and we’ve been a pioneer both in terms of talking about fresh, clean ingredients, talking about technology, talking about loyalty program as a, as a program talking, you know, and having an app, which, which makes it more convenient to me, brings a lot of what I have done at different places into one big package, which I really believe in, you know, it’s, it’s at a scale where we are able to make a big difference. You know, I, I believe we are one Panera to drive a healthier, happier world. That’s the purpose that drives me and motivates me and, you know, and on a, do your first point of wanting to learn and continue to challenge ourselves. I think at Panera, we’re trying to do things, but just disruptive. It is about finding things that hasn’t been done before. It is about writing our own playbook. So it’s a challenge where you continue to learn and figure it out. And I’m excited to be a part of that. Speaker 1 (10m 47s): Well, I just have so much admiration for, for you for taking on that challenge and, and for the whole company, obviously, as you said, like when we do have these conversations now about subscription loyalty, everyone’s pointing to Panera bread and to also, you know, press a Mojay in, in the UK, which I know is the sister company and also espresso house. So in Scandinavia, so clearly the strategy, you know, for you guys has, has worked well enough to, to translate across multiple markets. But literally when this started, I mean, can you share the story? I know it was before your time, but you know, where did this idea of subscription come from for Panera bread? Speaker 2 (11m 30s): Yeah. So the idea of subscription comes from something more, more basic. Honestly, I think it’s really thinking about what can we do to drive absolute value? You know, coffee is, for instance, we have premium coffee and, and we had stats and dumps of how much customers end up spending on. Yeah. And you know, and how do we, how do we, how are we able to offer something that could be disruptive value in a way that, that makes it a no-brainer makes it so approachable and coffees a habitual thing, right? Some people want coffee to do an exam to start their day. And how do you combine the something which is a small habit? And Panera is able to bring a unique offering. It’s not just copyrighted coffee usually goes with great pairing of food. And we have an incredible area of variety of food. And that’s something that our guests could have their daily habit of coffee, but along with the food offering that we have. So it’s thinking about that guests ritual, and we have so many guests who are coming in and really thinking about how can we package it up. That makes a lot of sense, you know, for, for our guests, but as well as for our franchisees and our company, that’s where the idea of subscription came about. And clearly at 8 99 a month, you know, you can’t beat the value, right? If you come in every single day, it’s almost like 30 cents. So then he sends a cup of premium coffee, but we also see that it makes, it does make Panera top of mind. It does help them come into our, our cafes or, you know, or through our digital ordering, be able to pick up any other food pairing that makes that occasion a more substantial and insignificant one. Speaker 1 (13m 21s): And I think what, what really strikes me as genius actually, man, actually is the positioning of Panera bread is, is beautiful because it is around being a bakery. So I suppose it’s very clear to your customers that they can come for lunch and they can come for, you know, all those beautiful baked goods. So I guess to build the association with coffee and then obviously the temptation to come and stay for lunch, have the cross all, I mean, it’s actually almost a repositioning exercise in my mind at the same time, the way you’ve done it. Speaker 2 (13m 54s): Yeah. Yes. You know, bread, as we, we say bread is our superpower, our lovely, you know, we it’s freshly baked in our, in our cafes. And you know, when, to your point, when you think about the coffee is a, is a daily habit and you come in and now you pick a bagel with it or you get a sweet treat if it is an afternoon coffee, right. Like, and, and we’re able to provide all of that very uniquely than anyone else. So it’s really utilizing what we already have and making this engagement with our guests through the subscription and much tighter one. Speaker 1 (14m 32s): Okay. Yeah, yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. And for listeners who might not have done quite as much geeking out about me as me about the program, I’m just going to quote a couple of statistics, men actually, that came out. And I think quite soon after you launched the proposition and it was CNBC who, among others, I know USA today and all the big publicity channels, we’re super excited about this. And again, because it’s so innovative, but just for listeners and the visits, for example, increased from four on average to about 10 per month. So obviously just driving the footfall more than double the food sales increased. So 70% of your subscribers and increase their purchase of foods. And then the renewal rates were quoted up between 90 to 95%. So I think that just demonstrates the value point that you made and just the overall proposition just totally landed for people. Speaker 2 (15m 29s): Yeah. And subscriptions agenda are about creating that virtuous cycle, right? You make this value so incredibly easy to understand. And, and with that simplicity, our guests come in more to evoke that. And each time they do that, there’s more opportunity for them to buy other Panetta products, do it, which is what is about that, that attachment sales as we call it. And it’s also an increased frequency right there, whether it’s traffic, it’s attachment sales and it’s, it’s that it disruptive value in, in the offering itself of coffee and those three work so well together. And that is what is the unlock of the subscription. Speaker 1 (16m 13s): Yeah. And do you think there was a lot of concern by the, you know, I suppose whoever had to put the initial P and L together, as I said with nobody to look to for inspiration, I cannot imagine how the numbers were, were being worked out. But again, when people talk to me about, you know, whether or not they should, you know, launch a subscription program, their big concern is always around dilution. And again, the, the press release that you guys issued in the beginning. What I loved was it shares the insight, which you actually already alluded to them. And actually, which was this idea that there’s a lot of guilt associated with, you know, expensive coffee. And the average American was being quoted at spending. I think it was $1,100 a year on coffee. So, you know, take a subscription package, save yourself a thousand dollars a year. But obviously that’s a thousand dollars that perhaps Panera bread could have been expecting. So I can imagine between all of the various em decision makers, there must have been a massive amount of debate just to kind of get it right in the beginning. Yeah. Speaker 2 (17m 17s): Yeah. And you’re very astute to have observed that. It is, you know, why, when you think about it now, and you look at the results, it feels like, of course we should be doing it. However, there is a notion of understanding the customer behavior and who is the one who’s coming into our subscription program. How do we continue to grow that? And how do we bring us stakeholders along the journey for us? It’s, you know, it’s our franchisees, it’s our, our, our head coaches or our company cafe, you know, operators need to understand that there is value that they may not be seeing on an everyday basis, right. When someone comes in and redeems their free coffee in their mind, it might feel like, well, what’s the sales associated with it. And it is about bringing it back and showcasing the economics of it on a very regular basis from an, from different staff viewpoint, from a customer level profitability, drama program, level profitability, and also from a category growth, right? Like we’re now, if you think about coffee sales in general, what does that sparring, right? Yes. To your point of, yes, it might be cannibalization, but what is this foot traffic driving? What pattern, what part of our menu is now getting a lift because of our coffee subscribers, for instance. So being able to call out different parts of the PNL and really understanding from an operator standpoint or from our franchisee standpoint, as to why this program is something they should get behind was a big part of, of our internal discussion. And it continues to be the case even today. Speaker 1 (18m 60s): And I didn’t realize it was a franchise based business because all of a sudden that means you do have thousands of decision-makers. And again, it has to be a nationwide proposition. So you actually, you know, you, you have to convince every single one to get behind the concept. Speaker 2 (19m 17s): Yes. And it is about bringing them along in the journey. Right. We did test this first in few cafes. So we have to have to make sure that the concept works. And to your point with this, hasn’t been done in restaurants at this scale. And, you know, to think about how is, how are our guests going to take to it? How is that going to affect the PNL and how much can we support? Right. Ultimately it has to be disruptive value for people to commit to their dollars, even if it feels like a no brainer when you do the math, there is, there is a barrier of somebody giving in they’re locking in their $9 for the month. Speaker 1 (19m 55s): Yeah. We certainly used to use the term. And I worked with a couple of guys that think, you know, in, in liquid barcodes. And we used to say, we called it extreme loyalty because, you know, when I’m kind of talking about loyalty, it’s one thing to have permission to market, to somebody. It’s another thing to have all of their data, you know, so you can personalize, but you know, the holy grail is, you know, I’ve got your credit card and I got this opportunity to keep charging. And so, yeah, I think that’s actually what you guys have achieved. And again, nailed the price points again and show those massive debate about, you know, that $8 99 is the $15 is a two. I mean, it’s such a big decision. Speaker 2 (20m 34s): It is, it is a big decision. And a lot of it goes down to what we talked about, understanding the usage pattern, right? Like you said, it was four before then it became 10, but just really making sure that we’re able to provide value to most customers and bringing, make it as approachable as possible. And also thinking about it, right? This is, we see it as our loyalty program. My Panera gives you access to this, to the subscription program, which is such a disruptive value. And so, as we think about overall construct of our loyalty, it is a personalized reward journey. That’s what Panera is, right. It’s not a very set on and bun or these many points and you get a set reward. It is a very personalized rewards journey. And when a subscriber comes into that, how do we make sure that we are utilizing their data, that we do get in a smart way that helps our, our coffee subscriber as much as our overall loyalty program? Yeah. Speaker 1 (21m 38s): Yeah. And another point, I’m just thinking about, again, conversations I’ve had been, actually I think one of the things that people struggle with is how prominently should we, should we show the opportunity to unsubscribe because, you know, I have paid a lot of attention and I think we have all had the experience where there’s, you know, buyer’s remorse or, you know, I forgot to cancel that and, oh, no, I’ve spent another month and I’m, I’m annoyed. So, you know, fundamentally as loyalty professionals, that would be very upsetting. But at the same time, what you don’t want it to be doing is, is, you know, making it too easy. So, so did you, do you guys have to, to think through that, or do you think the value piece just means that people are very clear in terms of staying or going? Speaker 2 (22m 24s): Yeah, I, I think it does. It’s a great discussion point and we just led here by what we want to be. Right. We want to be a transparent company. We want to make sure that it’s a, it’s a long-term relationship that you’re getting in with somebody. So yeah, it’s very easy. We are very good at reminding somebody that your, your renewal time is coming up and, and this is how much you’ve signed on. And this is when, you know, we’ve, we’ve run fuel trial offers. For instance, we make it very clear that it’s coming up, here’s your chance to renew. And if not, then it is easy enough to cancel ultimately. Yeah, I do really believe subscriptions work when they find value in it. And that comes from redemptions, right. It’s not just about, and we all do that. I mean, everybody has it. I, I think the number is somewhere around seven subscriptions. Everybody is signed onto. And a lot of times you forget about it because it’s totally just, and then you look at it after six months and you’re like, oh my God, what happened? We don’t want it to be that it’s about finding value. And so, and that’s what I think redemption is the best way for retention when it comes to a subscription. Love us, Speaker 1 (23m 40s): Love us. Speaker 2 (23m 41s): So how do you make sure that we, we remind you, there is a, there a free cup of coffee waiting for you and it’s a little nudge and that helps them come in and get that. W we, it’s not hidden. It’s not, we don’t make it very complicated to try and cancel if you do choose to for whatever reason. And, but at the end of the day, it just, when the guests finds value in the subscription is when Canary gets value in that. Speaker 1 (24m 7s): Totally. Yeah. And again, just reading through, I suppose, all of the, you know, price point and on what that equates to, I mean, it’s literally four cups of coffee in a month is all that you would need. So Speaker 2 (24m 20s): Yes, Speaker 1 (24m 20s): Who’s not going to have four cups of coffee. I think most of us have that. I won’t say daily, but almost certainly weekly, so very easy to wow. And I love that and I will be quoting you and actually, so redemption drives retention. So there you go, Speaker 2 (24m 37s): There you go. My contribution of a nugget for you. There Speaker 1 (24m 40s): You go, and nugget another brilliant. And so I wanted to talk about then, as you mentioned, you’re doing lots of, I suppose, trials and testing and new ideas. So today, for example, I can see a fantastic and sign up for the subscription program and it’s free till the end of December. And I know that went live at the beginning of October, so a full quarter of free coffee and which is incredibly compelling. And then I saw fabulous partnerships as well. So for example, American express card holders get six months free of your subscription program and also a partnership with them with audible. So tell us what’s going on with all of these various partnership ideas. Speaker 2 (25m 25s): Yeah, I, you know, I think it is about we’ve come to a scale with our loyalty program and really think about how do we continue to add value for our guests. You know, there are these promotional benefits, and this is something that any loyalty person, you know, when you take on a program, you’ve, you’ve tried to balance out the promotional needs with the emotional benefits and something, which is beyond just a transactional benefit. Right? So as we think of that, that’s where this idea of partnering with like-minded brands comes into play. We did this with audible was, was, had the, you know, when you have, when w how do you give them a three months of free trial on audible? They do that as a promotion to invite new guests, but our coffee subscribers or our, my Panera loyalty members, we think are a very like-minded group that will be interested based on where, who our core customer is and any kind of customer assessment that we’ve done. We believe that this would be a very qualified audience to do that trial. Cool. To how do we come together to think about adding value to both audible guests, by giving them a coffee subscription trial, and Panera guests to give them an audible trial, was this partnership came about, and, and likewise thinking about Amex, right, I’m exist is one of the best at doing that. It makes members get, get the best rewards there is, and the best benefits there are. And they have an incredible reach that they’re able to talk to guests. And, and it’s great that that’s why we had to really make sure this was a true compelling offer for our Amex desks. And hence they’re supporting it with a six month, a six month trial for them. Wow. And, you know, we want our Amex guests to try that out. So this is, it’s a way for, you know, how you get light and it has to be important in terms of how you find the right brands yeah. To balance it out with, we did this, even with Shutterfly earlier this year, where we could give, you know, you can, you can create your own mug, a personalized mug with a coffee subscription. So it’s our way of saying thank you to our loyalty guests, but also a way to continue to find value and a reason for being a loyalty member. Yeah. Speaker 1 (27m 52s): And it’s a lovely, gentle way as well. I did some partnerships myself years ago. It’s a lovely, gentle way of doing, I suppose, introductions on both sides because you know, very much, I know that if I’m the type of person that’s going to pick, you know, put a picture of my cash, for example, on a mug, which I definitely plan to do, then it definitely means I’m going to be the type of person who will do the family calendar, and I’m going to need those kinds of printing services. And it is a very gentle way to find, I guess, new ways to do things that I love to do. Speaker 2 (28m 25s): Yeah, exactly. And, and it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a coffee mug and we know our coffee subscribers would love that. And, and we did that in the summer and it was, it was very well received as well. Speaker 1 (28m 38s): Great. And again, just because we have a lot of global air listeners, Minakshi, I’d love to get a sense of the scale of the program from memory. I think you guys are certainly in, I dunno, I’m going to say like the top 10 in terms of member base, can you share the member base for, for my Panera as it stands? Speaker 2 (28m 56s): Yeah. Our, my Panera actually is one of the largest loyalty programs that’s out there and we’ve had about 45 million overall members. Wow. And in around 2020 5 million have been on an active annual basis. Wow. Oh my goodness. And it’s the largest program that’s out there and it’s been the longest running as well. And it’s a program that we continue to do to try and find more value for our guests and improve that in a constant basis, Speaker 1 (29m 28s): Which brings me on to, I suppose the final question from my side is around what’s coming next. Can we expect to see, you know, my Panera bread is doing, I don’t know, subscriptions and other cash agrees, or I don’t know. I just, my mind would be like, oh, you know, if I was in your position, I wonder what I would be doing next. So, so what can you share with us? Speaker 2 (29m 50s): I can tell you it’s something that whatever we do is something that’s going to be unexpected because that’s, that’s what Panetta Panetta does. Right. We want to continue to innovate and really push ourselves. I think in the space of loyalty, we do, you know, it’s a strategic choice for us to think about. We also paused and thought whether we should be going into a points or tears or so on. And I, you know, we think subscriptions are the way for us to drive value for our guests and what’s coming is going to be something and, and it’s an expansion to our coffee subscription. Speaker 1 (30m 27s): Okay. Okay. Can you give me any sense on timing just to, you know, tease our listeners Speaker 2 (30m 35s): Or maybe things are being worked through? We are, we have a lot of ideas in the testing, you know, honestly I will say we take, and that’s something that I have learned is we take a very disciplined approach to do innovation, even in the subscription or loyalty programs, space, right? Just like a new product idea. You think of a concept, you put it in front of your customers and understand their appetite to try it. But we tested in a market to see what happens before we launch it. So we followed the same kind of rigorous process before we learn something, especially because of the scale and to a point, all the stakeholders that are involved, we want to make sure we’re making a vise decision that we are going through that process. So, unfortunately, I don’t have something that I can tell you now more to come, and hopefully we can connect again. Well, Speaker 1 (31m 23s): Just about to say, ah, I just want to, you know, tear it, tee us up for this time next year, because I feel like, you know, with big brands, like you guys are always be incredible news to share. It’s not like we have a conversation today and your job in loyalty has done. So, so for listeners, I’m sure there’ll be very happy to hear that we will stay connected and yeah. Maybe do something again in the future together. Speaker 2 (31m 46s): I would love that. Great. Speaker 1 (31m 49s): So listen, that’s all from my side, my next sheet, as you know, I’ve been waiting a long time just to kind of hear all of the inside scoop for a Panera bread. So were there any other points that you think are important for the audience before we wrap up? Speaker 2 (32m 5s): No, I think I will just say, we should think about loyalty as a program, but also loyalty as what we’re trying to do with our guests. And I don’t believe there is one, one way that one size that fits all and we should really be true to what our brand values are and what our customer proposition is in anything that we do with a loyalty program. It shouldn’t be because everybody is doing it because clearly it’s very, very prevalent now, but the relevance of your program matters a lot, especially today. Speaker 1 (32m 40s): Oh, brilliant. Well, listen, I couldn’t have said it better. Minakshi I think that’s exactly what people need to hear because, you know, certainly I’m guilty of going, oh, you know, let’s try subscription, but it does need to be the right program, as you said, relevant for the right audience and the right people. So yes, it’s good to take it a disciplined approach and, and learn from what you’re doing and adapt it to what the various brands needs. So, and my final thing then is if people do want to reach out to you Minakshi and for example, on LinkedIn, are you comfortable to maybe, you know, be able to, to talk to people there if they want to talk to you? Speaker 2 (33m 16s): Yeah. And absolutely happy to share, you know, this is something that I’m, that I’m learning as well. So I’m always learning something from every new conversations. I’m happy to do that. Speaker 1 (33m 28s): Oh, thank you so much. Well, listen with that, I will say Minakshi Nagarajan senior vice president of recurring revenue and loyalty at Panera bread. Thank you so much from everyone at let’s talk loyalty. Thank you. This show is sponsored by the wise market here. The world’s most popular source of loyalty marketing news insights and research. The wise marketeer also offers loyalty marketing training through its loyalty academy, which has already certified over 170 executives in 20 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals. For more information, check out the wise market, tier.com and loyalty academy.org. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of let’s talk loyalty. If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on let’s talk loyalty.com and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday, or just head to your favorite podcast platform. Find let’s talk loyalty and subscribe. Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews. And thanks again for supporting the show.