Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m Paula Thomas, the Founder of Let’s Talk Loyalty. Today’s show is hosted by my colleague Amanda Cromhout, the Founder of Truth and International Loyalty Consultancy firm based in Cape Town, South Africa. If you work in loyalty marketing, make sure to join Let’s Talk Loyalty every Tuesday, every Wednesday, and every Thursday to learn the latest ideas from loyalty experts around the world.
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Amanda: Hi, I’m Amanda Cromhout from Truth. And today I have absolute honor and privilege to be interviewing who Fionna Ronnie, who is Head of Customer and Loyalty at The Foschini Group in South Africa. Whilst The Foschini Group is based in South Africa, it actually spans five continents, 26 countries, has 4,300 outlets and has 34 leading retail brands in its stable.
The Foschini Group is fondly known as TFG. And TFG’s motto is to inspire our customers to live their best lives. Fionna describes TFG as having an arsenal of business offerings, and her career has always been working with data-driven organizations. Now she’s at The Foschini Group, she leads the customer team who are the lifeblood of TFG Rewards.
TFG Rewards is arguably the largest loyalty program in its home market with 30 million members. It’s offering spans three pillars. Firstly, to swipe and save, secondly to swipe and win, and thirdly, personalized discount vouchers. And these vouchers come from intelligent decisioning, segmentation approach, crafting the next best offer against billions and billions of data points to offer eight specialized offers per member.
Fionna encourages her team to be playful, allowing them to find new, innovative solutions for the TFG Rewards members across new channels, proof of concept, gamification, and actually attracting a younger customer like no other loyalty program in South Africa.
So today, I’m especially excited to welcome a special friend in the loyalty industry and a real leader in the South African loyalty industry. We have Fionna Ronnie from The Foschini Group.
Fionna, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Fionna: Thank you, Amanda. I’m so excited to be here today.
Amanda: Yeah, it’s really a special, special interview I think, for a lot of people because there’s a program we’re going to talk about today that is a hidden gem.
It is about the South African loyalty industry, but the hidden gem is that this program is big, it is powerful, and doing some really phenomenal things and I can’t wait for Fionna to share that with us. So Fionna, I think you’re a fan of Let’s Talk Loyalty. So you probably know what the first question is, but what is your favorite loyalty program?
Fionna: Amanda, other than TFG Rewards, I have to start with that first.
Amanda: Of course, of course.
Fionna: I think, I think you’re no stranger to Shirley Palmer talking about Vida. And I have to say, I’m absolutely a huge fan of Vida. So myself, I have a few Vida, little stores within our building and the ability to use an app that work fundamentally well, in terms of customer satisfaction and journey for me it’s been a delight. You know, when I talk about customer service and customer experience, being able to just order my coffee as I drive into the basement, and by the time I reach my office, the coffee is warm ready. The staff that have the absolute I would say, you know, disposition and mannerism in, in holding the true Vida flag day after day in you know, and just the way they engage, the way that they show up for me it’s been really, really a delight. So I think, definitely Vida.
Amanda: Amazing. And I think for the global audience, Vida E Caffe is a coffee brand that serves, I think, amazing coffee. I’m not a coffee drinker, but everyone tells me it is and delightful food to go with it. But, your colleague Shirley came on one of, a webinar we held in South Africa where she talked about exactly that the service ethos and the way the whole customer experience comes together shows that loyalty is so much more than the rands and cents or the dollars that you collect through the loyalty program.
It’s the whole experience, which I think is incredibly powerful that a lot of people forget about when they’re design loyalty programs. So I’m sure the Vida team will be thoroughly excited to hear your vote of confidence.
So I think before we talk about the TFG Rewards program, which is the the item on the agenda today, I need us to give some context to the The Foschini Group because the The Foschini Group, from my understanding, and I’ve had the privilege of working with your team for many years, but the The Foschini Group is so much bigger than people really understand.
I mean, 34 leading brands, 4,300 outlets, 26 countries, and five continents is, other stats that I pulled, which I didn’t know that having even worked for you for quite a while. So please, can you share us, share more about The Foschini Group. What, you know, what, what kind of retail sectors you cover. And let, let’s, let our global audience really understand this enormous retail group.
Fionna: So The Foschini Group, Amanda is a large JC listed, multi-brand, multisegment, fashion and lifestyle retailer. Our purpose is to inspire customers to live their best lives. And we sell products that basically touch every aspect of a customer’s life.
You know, this creates for us and for our customers an opportunity for, you know, to be able to inspire them daily with over 30 plus of South Africa’s most loved brands. We have an arsenal of business offerings that we take to the market every single year. And our latest is the powerhouse e-commerce platform that we’ve gone live with called Bash. So definitely TFG is a force to be reckoned with in the retail markets and industry.
Amanda:. Yeah, without question. I love your terminology there. An arsenal of business offerings. That’s amazing. So I think if talking about an arsenal of offerings, let’s move, in a moment to actually about TFG Rewards. But before we do, you are relatively new to the organization. So just to give, listeners a little bit of a sense of your loyalty background, please let us know how you got to work for The Foschini Group and your sort of career history leading up to this.
Fionna: You know, Amanda, I’ve spent about 18 plus years in the financial services sector. So very much in corporate banking, retail banking, working with data-driven organizations, you know, and, you know, the financial services industry, their data is there, everything.
So using that to harvest a lot of the insights around customers. Being customers kind of been in my DNA. And, with that I’ve spent the last, I would say, almost three years in the retail sector. And the last Europe, specifically at TFG, just focused on the TFG Rewards program.
Amanda: I think for the Let’s Talk loyalty listeners, very affectionately known in the South Africa market.
The Foschini Group we refer to as TFG. So we’ll refer to it as TFG from here on, cause your actual program is TFG Rewards. It’d be a bit of a mouthful, I think to say the The Foschini Group rewards. Yeah. So let’s keep to TFG.
So, your journey leads you, as you say, there to working predominantly, as you said, financial services organizations, but always data driven and always looking to get the customer at the center of it, which brings you plum into the role you’re doing at TFG.
So TFG Rewards in the South African context is extremely well known for many reasons, but you are winners of a few years of various awards at the South African Loyalty Awards, mainly around data-driven campaigns and personalization. So good luck for the 2023 awards that are still yet to happen. And actually, not yet announced, cause this recording is before the announcement of the winners of the International Loyalty Awards, but you were recently announced as a shortlisted player and contender at the International Loyalty Awards for Best Short-Term campaign. So I for one will certainly be listening out to see the results of that campaign as I watch for any South African brand flying the flag. So that’s enough of an introduction from me around your global and local sort of kudos for TFG Rewards.
Not only are you well known as a loyalty brand, but you have a phenomenal volume of members. And I think this is gonna take the breath away of most listeners now, but you have over 30 million members. Now in South Africa, this has to be one, if not the biggest membership base.
Fionna: That’s great.
Amanda: Tell us about… Yeah. So please tell us about TFG Rewards. Let’s put into context. What exactly is the program?
Fionna: So TFG Rewards for us in terms of our objective, it’s actually quite simple, Amanda. We want to create for our shoppers personalized rewards that make sense to them. So very, you know, drive personalization, very customer-centric experiences, making sure that customers get the value exchange from TFG for the, you know, the data that they share with us.
And fundamentally, our TFG Rewards program is underpinned by three offerings. The first being swipe and save. You know, where you are able to save on promotions from TFG that enable you to get a bigger bang for your buck, which is both online and in stores.
Then we have swipe and win where you are automatically entered into amultitude of different competitions that we have running continuously throughout the year.
And then we offer our customers personalized discount vouchers as well, giving you even more value. So vouchers that are tailored and personalized to the way you shop with us. And those three pillar pillars make up our TFG rewards offering.
Amanda: Great, thank you. It’s very succinctly put, put. So swipe and save, swipe and win, and then personalized discount vouchers. Great. Thank you. Very, very useful.
So I did rush over my question actually, when I said 30 million members. So do you know factually, I mean I should know this, but I wouldn’t want to, I’m not a betting woman, but I wouldn’t want to bet on it. But the odds would be that you are one of the biggest, if not the biggest program in the country.
Fionna: We have, we are, we are definitely the biggest program in the country right now. I mean, we’ve done all the numbers against our competitors as well. And definitely TFG is at the helm.
Amanda: At the helm. I love that. Great. So as I mentioned, you’ve been shortlisted for the International Loyalty Awards and some of the accolades you’ve picked up in the South African loyalty ward has always been around the use of data and insights retrieved through the loyalty program. And I think you opened up the description of TFG Rewards around personalized benefits and as a value exchange for the data your customers give you. So what do you do with that data?
Fionna: Well, it’s, I would say it’s almost twofold in terms of creating propositions to our customers and, and, and leveraging through personalization. You know, that’s the one aspect that I spoke to you about.
The other is making sure we, we use that data to come up with intelligent decisioning where we kind of segment our customer data and understand what the next best offers are so that we can entice our customers with, with offers that make sense to them.
Amanda: And how strategic, so that’s, that’s completely ties back to your, one of your three, if not a couple of the pillars that you mentioned as the value proposition for the members.
So outside of the value proposition, which is great, obviously if the, if the offer’s personalized, I’m gonna come back, it’s gonna make sense, it’s gonna really help me feel that the multitude of your different brands understand me. And you can obviously gather. Such richness across the different brands that I can shop in. As you said, you know, different offerings across lifestyle and so forth. But strategically within the business, how does the business use the data you gather apart from obviously giving benefits back to the customer?
Fionna: That’s what the customer team comes to play. And I just wanna pause there for bit around the customer team. The customer team are the lifeblood of the TFG Rewards Program. So whilst the TFG Rewards Program has a team that is focused on the execution and the strategy of the program, the customer team itself, supports and underpins everything that we do strategically.
So coming up with insights that are combination of internal data and external data, painting the customer landscape and future trajectory of where we should be, thinking about and moving to is the role of the customer team. And working together with our brands, we’re able to take that data and create a narrative that is underpin and supported by our rewards program.
We also have within the the customer team, a CRM team that looks at direct marketing and executing all of the campaigns for our brands. And together with the, and the data, the insights, the analytics, you know, we provide strategic direction to our brands on what, what, you know, should be moving the dial within their businesses and on their way forward.
Amanda: You’re touching straight into one of my favorite subjects. I think if you’ve ever listened to any of the podcasts, I’ve had the pleasure of working in the past. You’ll know that I love how strategic use of data in customer is used in customer-centered retailing.
So given you have, I remember many conversations with the phenomenal retailers as in the professional humans who work in your business, who drive these amazing brands with very clear value propositions, and then suddenly there’s this complexity of this centralized data gives you a different view of the world, different push towards priorities.
So given that and given traditionally in retailing, the brand or the product is king. Now we’re coming along with, is customer king, not versus product, but hand in hand with products. So how do you best work with your retail brands given you have so many of them in the organization?
Fionna: You know, Amanda, when I first joined retail, I, I, there was a time where, you know, I struggle to almost settle within the retail environment. Cause coming from a financial services industry with the customer is traditionally just the focal point. Retail’s all about product, right?
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah.
Fionna: So this context switching for me was a, was a great, it was a great learning curve, but then spending the last few years just, understanding the retail business, spending the last year within TFG, working with our brands to put this customer at the center of everything we did, we, and do we refocus the organization and the brands to look at the customer lifecycle. And leveraging our data as an asset and created a better understanding of the customer journey in and lifecycle within the organization.
Giving the brands a view of that I think for us was a starting point around refocusing our, our, our organization’s efforts to customer at the center of everything we do. And then taking it from there onward into our brand strategy.
Amanda: So you, okay, so you actually worked centrally with the, your customer life cycle generated out of your central organization and brought it to life within, I guess, the separate brands that you, you service and lead within the organization for them to really see the value it can bring.
Fionna: A hundred percent. I think, you know, we with having 30 plus brands, Amanda, having a customer lifecycle and understanding of a customer experience, customer lifecycle, customer journey would have to be tailored per brand.
And that’s the beauty of the data we harvest from our Rewards program. Being able to understand our customer best, to use our data as the lifeblood of the organization and to strategically channel the business in that direction. For us, it’s been the focus for the last year.
Amanda: Fionna, you’ve given me such amazing soundbites here. Data is the lifeblood of the organization. I love it. Fantastic. Thank you.
So, I spoke earlier around some of the, awards you’d picked up in the South African context and just knowing your organization, knowing, listening to you now about how data is used in, in TFG and you know, you mentioned within the customer division, the customer team, you have a CRM and direct marketing team. Then it obviously leads to the buzzword that everyone uses every day, personalization.
But I actually know for a fact it’s not just the buzzword in your organization. I’ve been a firsthand a recipient of the personalization as a customer, and had the privilege of, you know, working at times on understanding it.
So, so from a personalization point of view, talk me through that a little, in a little bit more detail because everybody in loyalty talks about personalization. And I think what’s critical here is actually how does it really work in TFG.
Fionna: Amanda, with regards to personalization, we take, we spend a lot of time, crafting our insights and putting them into action through intelligent decisioning. We run segmentation models that are augmented by data science, and then we come up with the next best offers that are crafted in a very specific way. And then of course, personalization comes into the ambit of that, crafting of the narrative for the customers.
And I’m gonna give you, an example. We, we, we do about a hundred and billion, 120 billion, segmentation models per customer to come up with eight specialized offers that cut across 30 brands. So there’s a lot of effort that goes into the type of personalization that’s done at TFG.
Amanda: Let me understand that correctly. So I would put, for example, I’m a customer on your database. So there’s eight specialized office being checked, data checked and across the 30 brands. But you mentioned 120 billion, is that the data points?
Fionna: There’s 120 billion data points that we actually leveraged within the models that we use to come up with the propensity of products that you’re likely to buy.
Amanda: I can’t get my head around that number. It’s amazing. That’s incredible cause, cause normally you’re not a grocery retailer, so you know, a grocery retailer, we expect to have that high frequency, high volume in the trolley, of skew data and external data and so on. But for a lifestyle fashion brand, that is absolutely incredible. You, I’m sure some data scientists are gonna be.
Fionna: Yeah. To be honest with you, when you have a mammoth organization like TFG with 30 plus brands, it’s no easy fit to come up with eight product sets. So hints the amount of effort.
Amanda: Yeah, I think on that pure number alone, and I’m just gonna say it one more time, 120 billion data points, I think you’re gonna have every data scientist in the world, phony youth to understand that in more detail. So apologies in advance. If that’s the case, you might have to write a, a, like a, a short release on how you massage 120 billion data points. Great.
So, so personalization is not just the buzzword. It really is a, a very, actionable insight and actionable strategy for TFG. And I’m delighted. Thank you for sharing that with us.
But you did mention the customer team being the lifeblood of Rewards. So organizationally, you know, every complex retailer, especially, you know, yourselves with many, many brands. There’s a lot of silos that exist and centrally, lots of silos that exist. So how have you managed to bring that together in terms of the disparate silos to bring an ecosystem together successfully?
Fionna: I would say the loyalty insights journeys at play throughout the customer life cycle at TFG. And having an integrated loyalty solution that delivers deeper insights as well as optimization across both our physical and digital channels makes it a lot easier. You know, we are able to execute our loyalty offers, to customers’ channels of choice.
And through that, we are able to deliver on our promise of creating the most remarkable omnichannel experience for them. So I would think that, you know, to answer you clearly, the TFG Rewards loyalty program is that central point of integration within our organization.
Amanda: That’s amazing to hear because I know typically when organizations start their loyalty journey that often, unfortunately, the loyalty program is lost somewhere in the depths of a marketing division.
And it needs to be exactly where you’ve just described it. You know, it needs to be the centralized point that can, A: feed the brands, feed the various operational and commercial elements of the organization. And B: take the insight to do, to do more with it so strategically the organization can benefit from it.
So I know it’s been a journey you’ve been on. It hasn’t always been like that, so it is a real pleasure for me personally as well to hear you say that, that TFG Rewards sits at the center of, of the The Foschini Group, because that’s taken some change management over years, I’m sure.
Fionna: Yes, absolutely.
Amanda: I always talk about the power of change management. I mean, I’ve had a couple of amazing interviews on Let’s Talk Loyalty, where the change management element has been the make or break off, of the success of programs and the brands that they, they, they work within.
Fionna: I have to say from a TFG perspective, change management was initially quite difficult. But when you are able to show the true value of an investment within the organization with some amazing statistics that we’ve been able to produce in the last year, it’s an easier conversation. And I also want to just say that the team that underpins this rewards program are definitely the A team in the industry.
I mean, I, I’ve, like I said, I come from over 18 years plus in the financial services sector. And I’ve, I’ve seen, I’ve worked with lots of different people, but this team are relentless. You know, they’re the fire at the center of it all, so, yeah. Makes it easier to drive change when you have the right people.
Amanda: That’s incredible. I’m sure there’ll be shrills of excitement when they hear the podcast, so that’s, that’s very beautiful of you to say Fionna, and very generous. I’m sure the team will be ecstatic to hear that. And I, I don’t disagree with you. I mean, I get to, I have the privilege of working with amazing people every day, and I’ve always felt that about the team that you are referring to. So that’s great to hear.
So let’s, let’s move into something I always ask and it’s the piece of discussion that some brands don’t particularly enjoy, but I never want to make you feel under the spotlight. So we did chat a little bit about this before today. Can you share with the audience some of the key KPIs that you measure the rewards program against? And, as many results as you are willing to share with us?
Fionna: Amanda, when it comes to KPIs, TFG holistically, we work very closely with our brands to drive the swipe rate and turnover link to known customer. Now, the reason we do that is we’ve realized that our rewards customers are almost 1.4 times more valuable than unknown customers. So we’ve put a lot of effort into those conversion rates.
We also realized that shopper frequency over the last year has increased for almost 64% when you have a customer linked to a rewards program. And then, you know, it makes the, a measurement like our retention rate that’s setting over 60%. A lot easier to to deliver on when you’ve super and hyper focused on your swipe rates and your turnover link to your known customer. Those are kind of the results that you reap and benefit from holistically.
We’ve also seen, things like average, profit per transaction increasing by over 45% average transaction values increasing by over 47%. So I think in the last year from a rewards program perspective and a KPI perspective, we’ve made significant leaps forward.
Amanda: And I’m sure those figures you’ve just shared with me, help your journey going forward within the organization cause now you’ve got solid figures around profit and value per transaction and you mentioned also a retention rate of over 60%. So quite recently I popped a question on LinkedIn, actually for yourselves to get some benchmarks.
And I know for a fact the responses I got weren’t as high as 60%. So you can congratulate yourselves. Your retention numbers are world leading in the sense of, certainly from the benchmark results I got from industry around the world. It wasn’t just a South African benchmark. So I’m just, sorry I couldn’t get that to you in time, I think for the board meeting, but, enjoy it in any case.
You did manage earlier when we talked about change management and the teams around the journey you’ve been on, and I think now that you’ve got stats to prove the performance of the program and how it’s not only impacting these, these localized stats per customer or per transaction, but it’s able to influence the brand performance.
Life does get slightly easier from a change management point of view going forward cause now you’ve got real proof of concept, real KPIs to share with the business. It’s no longer just, hey listen, believe us, we know we’re gonna make a difference cause you are already able to prove that. So thank you for sharing those. That’s great.
So we’re almost coming to the end of our interview, which I don’t particularly want to come to an end, but what’s coming up for the Goliath of TFG Rewards? What can you share without breaking any trade secrets.
Fionna: You know, Amanda, I always encourage my team to be playful. And we’ve being playful I, you know, there’s a level of us wanting to explore new things, new ideas and new concepts. So we’ve been looking at, at new ways of supporting our customers new, you know, additional channels. We’ve introduced WhatsApp last year, July. That was a, a really, it was a huge achievement for us just to be able to introduce our customers to a channel that really matter to our industry and our South African context.
And then we’re also, you know, doing quite a number of POCs in terms of understanding our, you know, our younger generation customer type. How would they like to be engaged? A lot of organizations talk about thing, gamification, you know? So we’ve been doing a few POCs around gamifications and tapping into whether this makes sense for our business and our customer.
And then with regards to our swipe and save offers, and our swipe and win offers, as well as our personalized vouchers, you know, we’ve been really fine tuning, you know, how we take it to market. Finding alternative ways to repackage the value proposition. And, I, I think just in terms of, you know, what we’ve been doing in the last year kind of makes sense, for us as TFG.
Amanda: And you mentioned the work you’re doing to attract the younger generation, and I think it would be a miss of me not to talk about the results we get in the annual Truth and BrandMapp Loyalty Whitepaper that we released.
We haven’t yet released 2023, but the 2022 results show that, I think you know this, that the TFG Rewards program is the most used loyalty program in the youth segment and the youth segment there is defined by 18 to 25 year olds. So whatever you’re doing is clearly working, cause if I compare your positioning versus grocery retailers and so forth, as expected a grocery retailer usage is higher than a fashion retailer’s usage.
But in terms of the younger customer, no. You are top of the pops, you’re top of the pile, in terms of most use. So clearly, you know, the ideas you’ve got, the playfulness, you’re encouraging is resulting in. And let’s see I’m sure the results will continue in the 2023 results.
So finally what I’d just like to ask, I see, you know, one of the things I did talk to you about when we prepared for today’s interviewers. You can’t just pull all of this off with sticky back plastic and systems that don’t talk to each other and just a, a great team obviously helps and is critical. And, clearly you are leading that superbly.
But talk to us a little bit around the challenge you’ve faced and the progress you’ve made in terms of the architecture behind the scenes to make all of this happen.
Fionna: Like you’ve mentioned, having systems that are, and not always talking to each other, or, or technology that’s not the latest can sometimes be an innovative progress.
But working exceptionally closely with our Infotech teams, we’ve been able to almost create an ecosystem of our technology and platforms that help us work in a very unified way. So it’s very much a hand in glove relationship with our infotech team. They’re an enabler of our rewards program and always assisting us to refine our technology stack and come up with an architecture for our customer landscape, and future proof our business is kind of where we are looking at right now.
So it hasn’t always been easy, but I think in the last year the amount of in, you know, incredible focus has made all of the different pieces come together quite nicely and, and we are able to leverage not only our relationship, but the different systems in the different business areas to create a value proposition that is world class.
Amanda: Thank you for sharing that. You referred to infotech. I think for folks who aren’t used to The Foschini Group internal language. That’s your internal IT system. IT team, right?
Fionna: IT. Yeah, yeah. Correct.
Amanda: Thank you for sharing that. Okay. So, unfortunately we can’t talk all day. Namely because of the time on the podcast, but also I’m sure you’ve got a critical list of things to rush back to.
So before we conclude, is there anything else Fionna you wish to share with the Let’s Talk Loyalty audience?
Fionna: I think the last point from me, Amanda, is that at TFG we work with our brands very closely to craft offers that make sense for our customers, offers that give back to our loyal customers.
And this is done to our reward program. So my message to anybody that’s not part of the TFG reward program, this is the time. Join the program and enjoy the benefits.
Amanda: See, we’re gonna try and get the 30 million to even higher. That’s impressive. You’re obviously recruiting. Recruiting to the last minute here. Wonderful.
So, I’d love to add to the show notes how folks who have loved this podcast can get, can reach you, should they wish to. Is your LinkedIn profile the best way to get ahold of you?
Fionna: Yes, please, Amanda. And it’s up to date, so please, if you, anybody needs to reach out, it’s the LinkedIn.
Amanda: Wonderful. I’ll add that to the show notes. So, Fionna, from me personally, I know we know each other through the privilege of working, industry in South Africa, and I know Paula, whenever she talks about the South African loyalty industry always talks about it being one of the most advanced and sophisticated loyalty industries in the world.
And to be able to speak to a leader of one of the most advanced and sophisticated loyalty programs in that market has been a real honor. So thank you very, very much.
Fionna: Thank you Amanda for the opportunity. I appreciate it.
Paula: This show is sponsored by The Loyalty People, a global strategic consultancy with a laser focus on loyalty, CRM, and customer engagement. The Loyalty People work with clients in lots of different ways, whether it’s the strategic design of your loyalty program or a full service, including loyalty, project execution.
And they can also advise you on choosing the right technology and service partners. On their website, The Loyalty People also runs a free global community for loyalty practitioners, and they also publish their own loyalty expert insights. So for more information and to subscribe, check out theloyaltypeople.global.
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