Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m your host Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV. Our guest is Fred Dumoulin, Strategic advisor to the Collinson Group, focused on driving the loyalty market in France in partnership with Salesforce. Fred and his colleagues recently completed some comprehensive research with loyalty program managers in France. And he joins us today to share some of those insights and how he believes they compare to members of programs in international markets.
We also discussed the loyalty maturity assessment tool, which is a free online tool available for anyone listening who wants to get some confidential insights on how your loyalty program compares to others. So I think you will find that fascinating. I hope you enjoy our conversation with Fred Dumoulin, courtesy of the Collinson Group.
So Fred, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and to Loyalty TV.
Fred: Hello, Paula. How are you doing?
Paula: I’m doing super well, Fred. I know you are a new addition into the Collinson Group extended family. Joining us today to give us some amazing insights from where you’re based in France. So, exciting times ahead. Is this your first time on a podcast or have you done this before?
Fred: No, I’ve done that before. I have to admit.
Paula: So very good.
Fred: First time with you.
Paula: First time with us. Absolutely great. And hopefully plenty more. So let’s get straight in Fred. As on this show, we have a tradition where we always like to kick off the show to get an understanding of what you admire either in your personal life or your professional life, but in the world of loyalty. And of course, nothing that the Collinson Group is working on. So something outside of that. So please do tell our global audience, what is your favorite loyalty program? Or I think you’ve got too many programs. Yeah.
Fred: I mean, I had to choose. I, it was very hard for me to choose one, but I think based on my previous experiences, based also on what I’m currently living in or where I’m currently living in. So the first one is Singapore Airlines. I think the Kris Flyer program has amazed me on various on various ways. So first of all, is the engagement with the client is also the way they are committed by informing by sharing the insight of the airlines to the path to the to all the travelers. All the program as well is very enlightening on many aspects. You have the cheering things you have different ways to redeem to earn you have a gazillion possibility to also play with your points, but also get perks, etc, which you know Singaporeans love that and I think that’s the way they are caring for their, for the audience or for the travelers is amazing. The way they do it is very smooth. You can feel that there is no one pushing you to consume on everything. So I love the, this program.
The second one was something that I discover also recently on the world, especially when, since I come back, I came back from from the from Asia to to European world is a Lidl. The loyalty program is extremely impressive with the gamification, with the way they’re also explaining you and the different promotion, but also what they do, how they are committed on different different perspectives and how you can play easily with the loyalty program. And I also experience in the store, how the people are really involved into the loyalty program, as they always ask you, are you a member? Have you think about that? Et cetera. So very impressive.
Paula: Amazing. Totally agree, Fred. And I think of the two, of course, they’re both wonderful examples. We actually have had Kris Flyer on the show once before, but out of the Australian market. So, we still hope to get the the head office to team out of Singapore to to join us someday because so many people say that Kris Flyer is their favorite. So clearly they’re doing an awful lot. Right. And I haven’t spent any time in that market, so I’m very curious about it.
But also the Lidl example, I think the reason I like that one particularly is because I guess loyalty in the grocery sector, is actually super well established in many brands, but Lidl and indeed others like them at the same kind of sector of the market. They’ve always resisted it literally until about three years ago. So, and I remember actually sitting in a loyalty conference. And I don’t know which brand it was. I’m not sure if it was exactly Lidl, but it was a commercial guy going, we’ll never do a loyalty program. It makes no sense. So it must be surprising. Huh?
Fred: At the end of the day, it’s always true. Never say never. Right. So.
Paula: Exactly. Exactly. Never say never, Fred. So with those two wonderful examples, you’ve hinted at some of the international experience you have, Fred. So would you mind taking us back to just give us an oversight in terms of your career and then you can talk us through what you’re doing currently with Collinson.
Fred: Yeah, sure. So I think nowadays I am called as a veteran from the tourism industry. So I don’t know at 45 years old. Yeah, it might be a veteran right now, but no, very interestingly speaking, I spent 20 years of my time of my travel experience working for a large hotel chain across the world, which gave me the opportunity to travel the world.
So from the Middle East to the Asia Pacific region coming back as well into the world, in to France that I tried to transact and to transit into the more technological world where I shifted to different brands like API, like also mobility industry and as well as still in touch with the distribution, landscape and tourism industry.
And recently I also joined as a strategic advisor Collinson Group, which is again, very recognized and well recognized across the world through priority paths, but also different products. And now I’m also giving my current remit is also helping them to develop the French market. So, very exciting time, especially on the loyalty landscape.
Paula: Indeed. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you for that. And it is funny to be called a veteran at such a young age because that’s how I feel as well. So, so, wonderful experience. And I guess what what often happens, Fred, and certainly in my experience, cause I have been an expat. Then repatriated and then expatriated myself as well.
Tell me coming back into the French market what have you noticed in terms of the the nuances be it cultural or, just all of the those subtle cues that are important when we’re thinking about building loyalty propositions specifically in that country.
Fred: I mean, it’s very surprising, right? I always wanted to leave France to not be seen as a French in my own comfort zone, et cetera. I wanted to be seen as a foreigner living overseas. And when you come back, this is exactly what I discovered with my Korean friends or Singaporean friends or Emirati friends is when you come back, you speak the language, you are, you have the mindset, but you also realize that being exposed overseas, you tend to potentially not daily anymore with all the things going on around you.
So it’s a very weird feeling. I love France. Definitely. I mean, a lot of things I missed and I’m still, I will still miss if if if, when I’m traveling, but at the end, the key differences are the interaction that you can see within the people, how they consume loyalty, how they see the world overseas, where they are too much sometime narrow on their own problems, and they forgot to see that we have a beautiful country.
I mean, look at what’s just happened with the Olympics, right? And it’s not finished because there is the other side of the, I mean, the other parts of the Olympics. But I think we have been broadcasted to the world as a fantastic country, amazing to to do things and wonders across across the United Nation. Right. So very impressive on this aspect. So yeah.
Paula: Incredible. Yeah. And again, kudos to anyone and everyone involved with the Olympics. I do know a couple of people indirectly who were involved and did get to, to travel there. Clearly it showcased particularly Paris in such an exceptional way. And when I think about actually our industry and loyalty, of course, we tend to talk about programs and propositions as we just did with Kris Flyer, of course, and Lidl.
But sometimes just showcasing something that is iconic creates that sense, I guess, of emotional loyalty. And probably domestically, I’d say, I’m sure everybody’s feeling very proud to be French, given what we’ve just seen.
Fred: I mean, Yeah, French has been renown as extremely proud, right? I mean, everywhere you travel, they will always say, Oh, you’re a bit snobbish, etc. You are typically French, right? So, but it’s true that at the end of the day, it’s also very interesting to see how without naming it, without pushing for something, you are just broadcasting your emotion, you are just broadcasting your different cultural aspects, your social showcase, your cuisine, your how you are extremely good on organizing something.
That at the end of the day, you can start to become loyal to France, for example. Right. So, and I think we have seen so many Americans coming to France. We have seen so many culture as well coming and to support their athletes. But it’s also really similar to the athlete when they train for a long time to perform at their best.
During the whole event, especially for the race. But I think this is the same thing on the loyalty aspect is, how committed you are, how you want to also involve the different cultural aspect when you want to make sure that you are not rewarding at once, at one instant, it’s a long term relationship. It’s something that you want to reward for the effort, for the long commitment, for your engagement, not solely for yourself. But also to the others. But I would say compared to what I’ve discovered in Asia Pacific, the way the Western world is consuming loyalty is completely different, right? It’s very more individualistic in the Western world rather than the Asian world or some other countries.
It’s a different things, especially when companies wants to build their loyalty program, they always need to think about who would be the audience and not only seeing that from their own insights, but also put their shoes into different cultural aspect. Because at the end of the day, I remember in my carrier discussing several time with the European headquarter of the company I work with and yeah.
Sometimes we struggle to make them understand the differences between what they think is the right way and what it’s natural to to some extent in the other side of the world. And yeah, talking about religion, for example, is one key aspect, right? So, but the way we also addressing the situation right now in some other countries are welcome more than some others, right?
So, it’s a, it’s also a very interesting way to think about collectivism versus individualism. And also the trends on the power of distance, the Yarki, because in some countries it’s extremely Yarkical. So by trying to put everyone at the same level, doesn’t work. So this is why the cheering is very appreciated in some market versus some others.
Paula: Yeah.
Fred: Like, yeah, there is a power difference. Like if you take India or Mexico, the Philippines, right? It’s the yorkical structure, even Korea, when you have the yorkical structure are prevalent, right? So it’s very important for them to be recognized on the elite level. hearing to have access to the premium services, et cetera.
When you can see on the other side where in the Nordics, for example, Australia, New Zealand, you don’t have this feeling, right? Everyone is equal. We see the world on the same way, et cetera, but do you need to pay attention to that, especially if you have client coming from this other side of the world or from another perspective where they will not see the same thing as on the same point of view.
Paula: Perfect. Great. And I think you’re absolutely right, Fred. And I know you’ve spent time here in Dubai as well. And certainly things like having silver and gold tiers has always been super important in terms of appealing to to the mentality in this part of the world. So that’s definitely something that I feel happens here and might be much less important, for example, if I was back in Ireland. So, so many insights there coming through.
And I know that given that you are working, I know very closely with the Salesforce team to obviously build the French market for the Collinson Group. You did some incredible research as well recently, which I know is something we really wanted to get some insights from you today.
So, so talk to us about the research, Fred who did you research and, what did you learn in terms of what is important to French consumers?
Fred: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s essential when you want to launch a new market that you get your insight and you make a research about the product, about the market that you want to address to.
And this is why we started early 2024 by launching a big survey across 1, 500 different companies in France. We had a very fair amount of respondent over, over 400. And we, first of all, we realized that the market that we are addressing is about 8 billion euro by 2028 with the cargo growth of 12.5%. So definitely we are in the blessing industry. And this is also giving a lot of a possibility to the brands as well as Collinson and in partnership with Salesforce to expand here. The first research, I think the first insight that we collected, and I think it will not be a surprise to many of the audience here is 45 percent of the clients of the respondents have been extremely careful on the CSR commitment of the loyalty program.
They want loyalty program to address this aspect. And I think this is the first time in our existence as human being that commonly across the world, we really talk about the planet. We really talk about caring for many aspects. Our new generation, the the legacy that we’ll give to the world. So I think it’s a very important point here.
The other thing, which was also surprised me as a client, as well as a professional here. Is to see the search off paying programs because we always believe that loyalty program should be free of charge. Right? But interestingly speaking, we realized that 25 percent of the program in France are paid program and 50 percent of them are hybrid.
So meaning that you believe that they are free of charge, but you have most of the time to do. transact or to buy a discount card or to be engaged with something to start to be involved into enroll, sorry, into the loyalty program. So very surprising that 75 percent of the whole program are some way and somehow a paying aspect to it. So, and it’s not only appearing on the retail aspect, but on the retail industry, it’s also on the financial services on the travel industry. So a very good insight here.
The other aspect that we also pay attention, because I think for all professional who wants to launch a loyalty program, or we are currently running a loyalty program is about the ROI. We always talk about how much new members do you gain? How many are active? What is the revenue? The extent, the incremental revenue that has been generated, et cetera. So we realized that on the travel sector, the ROI tend to be slower than in some other industry. So and especially on the financial services, it takes roughly five years to start being profitable when it tends to be only three years for the other industry.
The other aspect, because it’s something which is extremely dear to myself across when we are in the multicultural environment, when you also cross different generation, is to realize how loyalty program also addressed to this new generation.
And I think, sorry, COVID has changed everything, extremely a lot of and I think read this redisplay a lot of different cards and financial services For example the banking industry which has been always conservative in france, compared to the rest of the world, I would say Are the one investing the most on the generation x? When the other industry Tend to invest more in the into the generation z, right?
So very interesting to see the dynamic across who are the most engaged, etcetera, because we always believe that the young crowd is more ingrained into this old technology aspect, etcetera. But it tends to be on the loyalty aspect to be a bit different, I would say. So, yeah, I think it was something I wanted to share with you on this aspect.
Paula: Oh my goodness. There’s so much there, Fred. I don’t know where to start almost. And first of all, I think you’re right. The CSR piece. I think that is a really important trend. And what I find is really interesting always is how people say that. They want to behave or what they want to see from a brand sometimes doesn’t translate to how they ultimately behave.
So I know it’s early in the journey in terms of, this is brand new research coming out. I will be dying to hear in a year’s time if that’s coming through in terms of the propositions and whether the consumers do respond. Because I think we all want to think of ourselves as good people. But when there’s loyalty points and something of value, I know for me, I tend to use them for myself a little bit, maybe on the CSR side, but but I think it’s a really important. It has to be there as a pillar, I think within the proposition and the opportunity has to be available. At the same time. My experience is that the take up tends to be less than we might expect. So I think there’s a brand value to that maybe more even than the commercial value, but again, there is brand value there.
So, so I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that, but certainly that was my experience on the CSR side. More interesting to me is the paid program insights. And I think in software, we tend to call it like freemium. As you said, like this hybrid model where somebody might join for free and then upgrade. So it sounds like that was something that kind of surprised you as well in terms of how many hybrid models are coming through.
Fred: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we always tend to say and I think it’s, I will. I will play a bit with my crowd, right? I mean, with the French is here. I mean, we tend to be a bit stingy, I would say. And this is the thing that we don’t want to pay for something. Of course, it’s not only French, right? Limited. But we think that everything is free or we want something free, right? But I used to say, especially with my years in the hospitality that there is no free breakfast. There is never free breakfast, right?
So at the end of the day, there is always something, or it has been already embedded on the price on the business model, etc. So, but extremely surprised the surprise, right? That yeah, 25 percent of the program actually paid program. But in my professional experiences. I also realized that as soon as people are paying something or they are paying for services, they are funny.
They are definitely more committed to do things to, to be engaged with something, not necessarily because they say, Oh, I have paid. So I do this brand or this this industry holds me something, but it’s just because you feel for, I mean, you want to invest on something that you like. And I think it’s also to echo your point on the CSR.
There are brands which are launching CSR activities just to appear greener and you have as well trends or you have as well companies. We have done that for many years, but never, they have never really broadcasted what they do for that. So it’s also to the client to understand, are they purely playing the CSR engagement on the loyalty program because they want to appear greener or is it really embedded on their DNA? And they have always done that. For natural reason, right? So I think this is also a key element here to pay attention
Paula: For sure. And again, I think you referenced COVID. I think having come through that experience collectively, we’ve all become much more aware of how brands are behaving and whether there is that authenticity.
So again, as you said, it comes through in the research, but also we all know the brands that we engage with, if they are really serious about what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. So. So, yeah, I think we’re pretty savvy consumers now and yeah, everybody’s paying close attention to how these companies are behaving.
Fred: Absolutely. Right. Yeah.
Paula: And just on your point, actually, as well, Fred, I’ve just been down in Australia. I think, I’m speaking at the Australian Loyalty Association, met some of your colleagues down there as well. And the interview I was doing actually down there was with a paid program. So, I just remember one of the pieces of research and insights that I had found from McKinsey which I’m going to make sure that we link to in the show notes for this because I think you’ll find it interesting and the rest of our audience, but it supports exactly what you said.
If somebody pays for a loyalty program, actually, then the chances of them spending more and being more loyal increases by 60%. Whereas with free programs, it’s only 30%. So actually it’s almost counterintuitive, but they have done their research and they actually believe that by putting that initial high barrier, then of course, people who are joining are so much more engaged and sounds like something you believe in as well.
Fred: I mean, truly, and I think especially on this world where for a couple of years we are hearing about inflation, we are hearing about cost of living, etc. Consumers tend to get something for free, but at the end, you just prove it, right? It’s only when you pay for something, you pay for a service or you pay for a product.
It’s only when you are ready to commit through a transaction that you At the end of the day, you are more satisfied. Don’t forget that a loyalty customer is someone even more demanding, right? So it’s also something that you need to pay attention along the way, along the whole the whole life of your customers.
Paula: Yeah, for sure. I mean, We’ve been thinking about it ourselves as well, Fred. You won’t be surprised to hear that, but you know, a lot of content creators do have, a subscription or bonus content, which is only available to paying subscribers. And like that, I think what it does is it really keeps you honest in that if I’m charging somebody now to listen to something or watch something, then I have to deliver value in return every single week. Like there’s just no question. You can never be lazy, never take your foot off the gas. So I think the brand is more accountable when somebody is literally paying on a recurring basis.
Fred: Yeah. And I think it’s also important to change the perspective of everything should be free or in the meantime, starting to say that it’s only transactional.
And I think loyalty program engagement program need to change completely from and to stay away as long as possible from this transactional part is why I was mentioning to you my favorite programs because I’m not engaged with so many loyalty programs. I always choose the one which are very resonating with me with my way to consume, etc.
And I’m very tired to see all this program always inviting you to consume, always inviting you to buy more, et cetera, which is for me, extremely strange because we talk about CSR. We talk about doing something better for the planet, but the whole model is always telling you to buy more. Consume more because you will earn more.
Why don’t we rethink this whole articulation and start to say, let’s consume better or let’s be more relevant on what we do and not only searching for points. I mean, I have several friends. They always tell me, Oh, I am just about becoming a diamond. I’m just about becoming gold. And I need to stay more in this hotel because, I am about for Tuesday and I’m getting all my perks and all my all my advantage.
But I say, listen, do you really need that to be gold? What does it change? If you are a silver and especially on the hospitality industry, I work in this industry for many years. What is the difference? You just get potentially an upgrade. You will potentially get a free drinks. Is it going to change your life? I don’t think so. Right. You can get your free, I mean, you can get your drink anywhere.
Paula: Yeah, totally. Yes, I’m guilty of being a status chaser sometimes, Fred. So, yeah, so good to remind us that actually there’s more important things in life. And often we’ve talked on this show actually about the importance of the purpose of the loyalty program in order to be loyal to the member, not always expecting them to spend more, as you said. So, that whole idea about we’re collecting data, we’re learning about them.
And great to hear from your market research actually about the different demographics that these brands are focusing on to make sure that obviously emerging generations, their needs are being listened to and addressed.
And particularly the ROI piece, Fred were you happy or how did it feel in terms of the the return on investment? The research, did it show that brands are feeling that it is driving a return when they invest in loyalty?
Fred: Yeah, I mean, again, it depends on the, it depends really off the company. Some are also thinking broadly to just simply DIY. And they are also looking at all the different touch points. I mean, like you were saying, collecting the data, learning more from the clients, being able to also create new products, really responding to the expectation of the clients. But we are also living into into a world where yeah, we want to see progress.
But the ROI could be expressed really differently. Is it financially? Is it on the marketing? Is it on the engagement or the longevity of your brands? And especially for new brands, which are starting to to appear in this world is where do they want to where do they want to be positioned.
And I was reading something very interesting recently from from an entrepreneur who started recently their business. And this person decided never to do a freebie when most of the time you also ask to do, ah, do this for me. Oh, don’t you want to be happy here for, and doing some free things, et cetera.
But she was also mentioning the difference on ROI between when she decided to do it for once in her life or once in a lifetime, something for free versus the other one. But she said, I have done, I’ve decided to do it for free at that time because I was getting a different ROI than just the financial way. Right. So it’s also interesting.
And there is something I wanted to share with you and just coming back on what you were mentioning earlier on being, I mean, I’ve been also guilty on being the perks chaser. Right. But I remember being seated in the lounge I mean, in the, at the airport of Shanghai in Singapore and waiting for for embarking the plane. And the loyalty aspect is so powerful that there was more people queuing as the priority boarding than on the natural, on the normal one. So, it’s very silly, right? And people were queuing on the gold lines where there was empty, there was an empty line on the non loyalty members. Right.
So it’s very interesting to see how the brain, the human brain is working. Sometime we are attached to our privilege, right? And especially, yeah on different aspects. So, very funny aspect.
Paula: That is so funny, Fred, actually, the only time I’ve ever seen that is the locals carrier. So, certainly coming out in Ireland from Ryan Air, there’s a lot more people, as you said, at the priority queue who have paid to stand in that queue. And then sometimes the non priority queue boards faster because there’s nobody there. It’s totally upside down.
Fred: And this is where this locus carrier have understood everything, right? They are telling you, Hey, you want to have the privilege by for it. And then you realize human being are so attached to the privilege.
Of course, we like to skip queues. I mean, I’m French. I’m not going to lie to you that I like to skip lines versus the UK. When I live in the UK, you also realize, or even in Thailand, you realize that for the Metro people are nicely queuing, waiting for the time, waiting for the other train to come in. When France, boom, everyone go. But you know, at the end of the day, it will work less efficiently. Right? So.
Paula: Totally, totally. I love the global nuances and insights, Fred. Super interesting. Your career in all of these different markets and different industries as well.
The final piece I wanted to talk to you about today then is the loyalty maturity assessment. And I know we’ve been working with some of your marketing colleagues to make sure that this an opportunity in this tool is made available on the Collinson website and for people to, I suppose, spend, I guess, five or 10 minutes and get a sense of how their program is performing compared to the industry and the market.
So I’d love if you talk a little bit about how you’re finding this, this tool, and I know it’s still very new. In fact, it’s only about six weeks old, and of course, we’ll make sure to link to it in the show notes. But would you mind just from your perspective, Fred, sharing what you think this tool can do for loyalty managers listening to this show who might want to get a sense of where their program is performing.
Fred: Yeah, I think first, this is a tremendous new product. I mean, you new opportunity for all the audience here, because for the first time, I mean, we talk about paying for you, etc. So it’s a free. It’s a free tool that all the loyalty user can definitely play with to assess the loyalty program. So it’s as you said, rightly, it’s a five minute time exercise where with all the data that we accumulated with all the experiences that we had with our clients, we had and we compute all this information to be able to offer to all the people we are going to play with the tool to assess the loyalty program rightfully.
Are they really thinking about the the way they’re addressing the clients? How do they collect the data? How do they compute this data? What do, what is the trends, et cetera. And from all this questionnaire, you will be able right at the end to get an assessment where all your program sits compared to the competition and compared to the industry.
So I think it’s a very powerful approach. And this is definitely a way for you to start rethinking because what we already realize with the people we have answered, the the tool is most of them, they’re extremely proud of the loyalty program. They always believe that the loyalty program is the best of fully right.
We make sure that when we do something, we do it right, but we also realize that when they receive the results, some of them might be surprised, right? And say Oh, I thought that my program was higher scale compared to the result is, but again, this is a purely confidential pro exercise. We are not going to share the data, et cetera, with anyone.
But I think it’s very interesting for you to play with that and to see where do you stand In the competition in the world, because as we were saying, you need to, I mean, all the loyalty expert here needs to understand this collective aspect on the cultural differences, et cetera. And one size doesn’t fit all right. So this is a, this is very simple.
Paula: Amazing. Yeah. And of course we will make sure to link to that in the show notes, as I said, to make sure anybody who does have, that interest in seeing how did they compare to their industry or to the world of loyalty. And it certainly resonates with me, Fred.
When I think back to my days running a loyalty program I started in the telecommunications industry and I always felt like I don’t really have a clue what I’m doing here. I’m doing my But I don’t know what other programs are doing. I don’t know what I should be expecting in terms of performance.
So anything that I could have gathered at that time to help me feel either good or okay, we’ve got room to improve. And then of course, there’s always the opportunity to call in some experts or some extra help if people do need it, of course in terms of taking that loyalty maturity to the next level.
But if we don’t have the data again, in the markets, which of course, if you think about the consumers and the members, they’re comparing our programs to the other programs they’re a member of. So we should also do the same.
Fred: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, again, the world is moving so fast, right? And you can see the trends across the world are moving completely differently. You will have culture which are extremely attached to the family members to share all the points more with the family. The status is definitely important. We talk about it. Tech savvy. You have culture which wants everything to be digital when you have other country culture wants to be they are not too much. They are a bit conservative culture, right? So, but how could you know everything if you don’t get supported by companies who are doing that across the world? Then, as you rightly said, no one knows everything, right? You need as well. And calling for help is not a bad thing, right? So,
Paula: It’s a sign of strength. Absolutely. And on that note, actually, I was going to ask if you’re comfortable, we’ll of course link to your profile and in the show notes as well for this episode. I’m thinking particularly the French market research that you referenced Fred could be super useful. So is it okay with you if people reach out if they want further insights on the French market?
Fred: Yeah, absolutely. I’m always here to support to help to share insights. So please feel free. I’m very delighted that you asked. Thank you so much.
Paula: Amazing. Great stuff, Fred. Well, listen, that is everything that I wanted to go through today. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention before we wrap up?
Fred: No, again, thank you so much for having me today. It was a pleasure sharing this inside with you, discussing with you and hearing you as well as an expert of loyalty. So thank you so much for your smile and your kindness to host me today.
Paula: No problem at all, Fred. We definitely haven’t done enough on the French market, so please God, you’ll come back and join us again soon.
So Fred Dumoulin, Strategic advisor to add the French market for the Collinson Group. Thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.
This show is brought to you by the Australian Loyalty Association, the leading organization for loyalty professionals in Asia Pacific. Visit their news and content hub for the latest loyalty insights from around the world. Or, why not submit your own article for publication. For more information on their loyalty services and networking opportunities, visit AustralianLoyaltyAssociation.com.
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