Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.
Paula: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
Paula: So welcome to episode 26 of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: I am absolutely thrilled to be marking the actual end of my first six months as a broadcaster, if I was to use the term.
Paula: And I do remember back to originally planning this many months ago.
Paula: I really didn’t know if I would ever get here.
Paula: So first of all, I wanted to say thanks to all of the listeners for the incredible support I’ve had over the last six months.
Paula: And in today’s episode, we are talking with a loyalty veteran from down in Australia, a gentleman by the name of Phil Hawkins.
Paula: And Phil has an extraordinary career in coalition loyalty.
Paula: Now, many of you will be familiar with coalition programs in your own markets.
Paula: I personally have not done a huge amount of work on the coalition side, but there’s incredible learnings, I believe, to be got from flybys in Australia.
Paula: And Phil has admitted that he has left flybys actually twice already, but clearly has a real love of the brand because he’s gone back and he’s working there again as head of loyalty operations.
Paula: So for today, let me welcome Phil Hawkins to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Phil: Thanks, Paula.
Phil: Lovely to be with you, and great to have the opportunity to talk loyalty with you.
Phil: That’s my favorite topic.
Paula: Fantastic, great.
Paula: Well, mine too as well, so we have that in common.
Paula: So first of all, for listeners who are not familiar with flybys, I know it dates back to 1994.
Paula: And the other thing I loved is, I believe it is Australia’s most popular loyalty program.
Paula: So tell us a bit about where it came from and when you got involved.
Phil: Thanks, Paula.
Phil: Yeah, I was involved with the program right back at its very inception.
Phil: And it’s interesting to note that 25 years ago, loyalty programs really weren’t a thing in Australia.
Phil: It was a foreign concept.
Phil: Even back then, the nascent frequent flyer programs were really just the place where actually frequent flyers went to, as opposed to tying up credit cards and things like that.
Phil: And so, we capitalized on what we saw as frequent flyer envy.
Phil: Because, yeah, when we did some focus groups, we were speaking to the people who maybe were living next door to folk who were able to take advantage of the benefits of frequent flyer programs.
Phil: And so, the concept of a frequent buyer program or a program that would reward you for the drudgery of your everyday shopping, this really struck a chord with Australian households.
Phil: And we were called flybuys because when we launched, the only reward was flights.
Phil: Now, over the last 25 years, we stand here now in 2020, and there were 1,000 reward choices.
Paula: Wow.
Phil: But back then, you could see the real emotional attraction to flights, and therefore, the program named flybuys was coined.
Phil: It was launched in 1994.
Phil: We weren’t really sure how it would go, and I think we’d had hopes of several 100,000 Australian households.
Phil: We recruited a million households in the first week.
Phil: And if we move to today, there are 6.6 million households.
Phil: That’s about two-thirds of Australian households that are active with the flybuys program.
Paula: That’s an incredible statistic, Phil.
Paula: And actually, I’d love to get into the definition after this, maybe of how you define active, maybe over what time frame.
Paula: But also, I know just in terms of your own favorite loyalty statistic, which I always do like to ask early in the show, you had a general statistic, I think, which was very good for us as listeners who maybe don’t know the Australian market.
Paula: Tell us about your favorite loyalty statistic there down in Australia.
Phil: Yeah, so my favorite statistic is that just under 90%, so 89% of Australians over 18 are in a loyalty program.
Phil: And on average, each of those folk holds 4.3 memberships of programs.
Phil: When you look at the fact that we started from pretty well ground zero 25 years ago, I suppose it shows that Australians have adopted loyalty programs that would be comparable with more mature markets that probably had a head start on Australia many years ago.
Paula: Fantastic.
Paula: So can I get some insight then, Phil, in terms of that amazing launch?
Paula: So to recruit a million people in a week is truly extraordinary.
Paula: Was it done by direct mail?
Paula: Was it a TV campaign?
Paula: Was it a through-the-line campaign?
Paula: I would just love…
Paula: And again, I know the communications mix in 2020 will be very different, but just to get that kind of cut through, can you tell us a bit about how you managed to achieve that?
Phil: Yeah, look, I think that probably the biggest success factor was signing up as partners into the program, a lot of household names, such as Cold Supermarkets, Shell.
Phil: We had department stores signed up.
Phil: We had financial services signed up.
Phil: And I remember very clearly the Sunday night when our media launch began.
Phil: And we took out a total ad break that basically had, I think, four advertisements in a row, all for fly-bys featuring different partners.
Phil: And I think that the breadth of the coalition from day one, I think Australian households were saying, hey, everybody’s, a lot of the places where I shop every day, they’re in fly-bys, I got to be in it.
Phil: The second part of that was with two of our biggest partners, you could go into store and sign up immediately.
Phil: And I remember back in those days that for one of the brands at the department store, there were queues coming that were leading right out of the building for people wanting to join up.
Phil: So there was a great deal of excitement.
Phil: The other thing I remember from back then was our card manufacturer actually ran out of plastic briefly and so for about a week and a half, we had to send out strong cardboard cards.
Paula: Oh my goodness.
Phil: Which was a nice problem to have.
Phil: But they were heady days.
Paula: Mildly embarrassing.
Paula: But as you said, a high quality problem.
Paula: And just again, on an operational note, I’ve worked on a number of loyalty programs, some that have been brought to market very quickly, and some that have actually taken a very considered approach.
Paula: So you’ve mentioned focus groups, for example, which I really believe in, in order to really nail the value proposition.
Paula: But do you have a sense of how much planning time went into flybys before it actually launched?
Phil: Yes, I do.
Phil: So there was probably about 18 months from the initial conception through to the execution.
Phil: And I think the thing, particularly, I remember in the last few months, you were desperate to keep it as confidential as you could so that you would maximize the effectiveness of your launch.
Phil: And so that led to a lot of nervous excitement leading up to the launch date.
Paula: Wow, brilliant.
Paula: And I know myself from partner negotiations, Phil, it really does take time to get the right brands on board.
Paula: So yes, I can imagine 18 months just bringing everyone on that journey.
Paula: And yes, the combination of exciting people and keeping them confidential as well.
Paula: So a very delicate balance.
Paula: Brilliant.
Paula: So tell us about the partnerships then, because you mentioned a load of household brands, such as Shell, back in 94.
Paula: And it is still a phenomenally, I suppose, broad coalition program.
Paula: So tell us about the coalition partners that are currently involved in flybys.
Phil: Yeah, sure.
Phil: So there are 23 partners.
Phil: And I suppose it’s a key to any successful coalition program that there is a broad range of what you consider everyday shopping.
Phil: So Coles Group, which is a 50% owner of flybys, brings Coles Supermarkets, a very prominent Australian supermarket chain.
Phil: Coles Express, which is the fuel outlet.
Phil: And two different liquor brands.
Phil: Then Wesfarmers, the other 50% owner, brings Target and Kmart, brands that are known across the world, to the program.
Phil: We also have a strong relationship with the Velocity Frequent Flyer Program.
Phil: That’s the Frequent Flyer Program of Virgin Australia.
Phil: So one of the most popular reward types is transferring your points to Velocity Points, so that appeals.
Phil: We have strong financial services partners through Coles Credit Cards, through Coles Insurance, and also National Australia Bank.
Phil: We have a proprietary travel business called Flybuys Travel, through which you can earn points from your travel, but also use your points to travel.
Paula: Okay.
Phil: We have eBay as a partner in the program, which is also popular with a number of members.
Phil: So across that spread, it’s not unusual as part of your retail journey to be asked, have you got Flybuys at Point of Sale?
Phil: And so with any coalition program, it’s a little bit different now in a digital world, but it has been true throughout the 25 years that you’re competing for space in a purse or wallet, and clearly a card that has a lot of use in a lot of places is more likely to find a prominent place in your purse or wallet.
Paula: Okay.
Paula: Very good point.
Paula: And in terms of going digital for Flybuys, Phil, are you still issuing plastic cards or what’s the transition to digital been like?
Phil: Yes.
Phil: Yeah, it’s a really good question, Paula.
Phil: Yes, there is a transition to digital.
Phil: And, you know, for example, you’ve downloaded the Flybuys app, then you’ll have the barcode there.
Phil: We are transitioning at the moment away from a dependency on the plastic card because one of our most popular rewards is what we call Flybuys dollars, which is essentially exchanging your points so that you can get dollars off at a lot of the prominent retail brands.
Phil: And as things stand today, that does have a dependency on the magnetic strip on the credit card.
Phil: So for those members that want to use that reward type, at the moment, they need to have the card.
Phil: But we are working, I think, probably like most programs are, on transitioning through to a fully digital experience.
Paula: Wonderful, wonderful.
Paula: And now what I’d love to get into is a talk I know you gave at the Australian Loyalty Association.
Paula: So our friends there, I think you gave the talk actually a couple years ago.
Paula: But you talked about five lessons of loyalty from a loyalty veteran.
Paula: So given your extensive experience, and I don’t want to age either of us, but what I love is that you’ve seen, I suppose, every aspect of the life cycle of loyalty, because I think we talked before the show about, you know, brands do get super excited when you are on TV and you are, you know, at a, you know, let’s say a sexy point in the journey, and it’s something new and exciting to talk about.
Paula: But also, in my experience, you know, programs do go through dips over the years, and I know Flybuys has had its ups and downs, but you’ve learned a lot along the way.
Paula: So give us your five key lessons then about particularly coalition loyalty or loyalty in general.
Phil: Yeah, the first one is about loyalty in general.
Phil: And I remember at the conference, I made a bit of a stir because my first slide basically said don’t have a loyalty program.
Phil: So the theme is, the theme is, you know, question whether you need a program and what is your program’s reason for being.
Phil: And over those 25 years, I have seen the examples that you sit back and think, why did you bother?
Phil: And, you know, I think from my experience with Flybuys, I’ve learned that you don’t enter into these things lightly.
Phil: They take a lot of planning.
Phil: They require substantial investment.
Phil: And when you see a program launched that really doesn’t get the basics right and is not invested in properly, then it becomes brand damaging.
Phil: And, you know, I thought of one program launched probably about five years ago.
Phil: I will keep it anonymous.
Phil: But it was an Australian apparel retailer.
Phil: And, you know, I joined all of these programs, and I did have some affinity with the band.
Phil: I was surprised that they didn’t ask me any profiling questions at the start, and I thought, well, maybe that had come later.
Phil: And I started to get a stream of emails, perhaps two or three a week.
Phil: You know, the first one, I think, was for 20% off kids’ clothing.
Phil: My daughters are 27 and 29, so this didn’t mean much to me.
Phil: And what continued from that point was a stream of emails with random offers.
Phil: About one in five to one in ten were of any interest, and no attempt to understand me or from my purchase history.
Phil: And it just looked like a mailing list.
Phil: And I thought, to set this up, this wouldn’t have been cheap, but why bother?
Phil: So my reference point there is don’t go into these programs, particularly single retailer programs, as a kind of me too, or my competitors have one.
Phil: I also recall one of my workplaces, like I suppose a lot of us have, I probably had about five different places where I could choose to get my coffee.
Phil: And I remember my coffee shop of choice was the only one that didn’t have a loyalty card.
Phil: And that was all about the proprietor who had great coffee, but more than that, he knew my order.
Phil: He always welcomed me warmly.
Phil: When I walked in, he would.
Phil: That’s where the loyalty device, get eight coffees, get the night free, that was a lesser consideration.
Phil: So that was another interesting reflection.
Paula: Wonderful.
Paula: So I love that, Phil.
Paula: It is about feeling recognized and whether that’s because the owner happens to be there or because you’ve gone to the effort to capture the date and do it properly.
Paula: I think that’s a brilliant lesson.
Paula: So yes, I can imagine, don’t have a loyalty program from a loyalty veteran.
Paula: Maybe slightly controversial.
Paula: Okay.
Paula: So what’s your next lesson then?
Phil: So I think loyalty is a two-way street.
Phil: I was at a presentation many years ago, I think it was a person from Hilton Honors Program back in the day.
Phil: And I remember that I wrote it down because he said it’s not about them being loyal to us, it’s about us being loyal to them.
Paula: Genius.
Phil: And that’s reinforced with me that we owe it to our customers and to our loyalty program members to be respectful, appreciative, and honest in our dealings with them.
Phil: At Flybuys, we try to challenge what we do with the weasel test.
Phil: What I mean by that is, don’t be like our offers, and our dealings with customers have to be straightforward, valuable, attractive, and most importantly, without anything hidden in the fine print or catches or gotchas, we need to be someone who says thank you, not a pushy salesperson who can’t be trusted.
Paula: Love it.
Phil: I’ve always detested the word loyalty schemes, because I think schemes are for scheming and for schemers.
Phil: And so I think that’s, it’s not rocket science, it’s nothing technical, but just being genuine and respectful of your loyalty program members.
Paula: Love it.
Paula: Love it.
Paula: And to your point, actually, Phil, I mentioned to you, I did go on to the Flybuys website in preparation for this conversation, and that’s exactly the feeling that I got.
Paula: It’s clear, it’s simple, and I instantly felt this is something that I want to be a part of.
Paula: It’s very much, this is the value proposition.
Paula: This is what we want to do for you.
Paula: And I can see the amount of effort that has gone in to making the customer feel of value.
Paula: So very well done.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: Brilliant.
Paula: So that’s brilliant.
Paula: So that’s the second lesson, the two-way street and us being loyal to our members.
Paula: What’s your third lesson for us?
Phil: Well, the third one was, it’s not all about the points, or is it all about the points?
Phil: And I know we were talking beforehand around, you know, one of my strange loyalty stats was the number of times I’ve read over the years that points programs are dead, including probably one in the last few months.
Phil: And, you know, I think there are both sides to the coin.
Phil: Clearly, points have been incredibly enduring as a motivational currency that works.
Phil: And, you know, I really, and I’m probably a bit biased, I really don’t see signs of that changing.
Phil: We get reminders every day around how much that engages with Australian households.
Phil: But, you know, if I think about what flybuys means to Australian households these days, certainly the collecting points and getting a benefit is there.
Phil: But it’s the convenience that flybuys can play a part in and making shopping easier.
Phil: So one of my favourite campaigns that we run, and look, it’s not extraordinary, I know other programs do this, but every Tuesday we send an email to engaged flybuys members and it is called Your Weekly Specials, and this is for Coles Supermarkets.
Phil: And Coles is like most grocery retailers, they have hundreds of products on special every week.
Phil: All we do is put in front of their customers, here’s 12 things that we know you buy, just letting you know they’re on special.
Phil: Now there are no special bonus points on them, it’s just helpful.
Phil: And we know that that strikes a chord with a lot of those members, and it’s a go-to point every week.
Phil: And that’s a great example where the program’s just helpful to your life.
Phil: So I think that’s…
Phil: And there are other examples where it is not just all about the points.
Phil: And so my summary is, it’s not all about the points, but it is about the points.
Paula: I love that.
Paula: But can I ask you one thing?
Paula: Because I know in the past, for example, a lot of clients would have debates with us, I suppose, as their loyalty team, to say, well, look, if those customers were already going to buy those products, why would you put them on special?
Paula: Why would you bring their attention to it?
Paula: Should it not be around driving behavior change?
Paula: Should you not be trying to cross-sell them something?
Paula: I mean, do coals have a view around that?
Paula: And I love the helpful mindset.
Paula: But how do they reconcile that or justify that internally?
Phil: I’ll be careful not to speak for coals.
Phil: But, yes, it’s super convenient for the customer.
Phil: Yes, I take your point.
Phil: It’s something they are buying.
Phil: They might not necessarily be buying it from coals every week.
Phil: And if this is another form of encouragement to get them to turn left to coals rather than right to competitors, then this serves its purpose.
Phil: And we know that, yes, it’s popular with our Flybuys members, but it works well for coals.
Paula: Okay, I love it.
Paula: And I guess it is a proof point then.
Paula: So it comes back to your previous point around it is the mindset.
Paula: If you’re going to be genuinely helpful, then let’s give the customers exactly what they want to buy.
Paula: So I think it makes perfect sense.
Paula: Brilliant.
Paula: What then is your next lesson in learning for us, Phil?
Phil: Yeah, this is a little bit more of a scary one.
Phil: And it comes under the banner of if you have your customers’ information, don’t lose it.
Phil: So this is around security.
Phil: And so I think one of the biggest shifts I’ve noticed over the last four or five years is so much focus on keeping the data and contact information, et cetera, that we hold for fly-by’s members on trust, that we keep that secure.
Phil: You know, I think over 25 years, you build up such an element of trust, but we know that that could disappear in a moment if the wrong thing happened, and we lost that trust.
Phil: I think a program like fly-by’s, it would be a mortal blow.
Phil: And so just the efforts we’ve put into ticking all the boxes that you can tick.
Phil: And I think related issues are loyalty fraud, and programs like fly-by’s, this is something we have to watch like all large programs do.
Phil: And so that’s a topic we’ve watched.
Phil: And closely related with that is program design.
Phil: I think when you have such a coverage across Australian households, they are very good at pressure testing your promotions and campaigns.
Phil: And if they’re not perfectly designed, there are millions of beta testers out there who are going to find a way around.
Phil: I think an associated topic with that is data privacy.
Phil: We’ve looked from a distance at GDPR, and the relevant regulator in Australia last year basically conducted two studies, one into digital platforms, and one specifically on loyalty programs.
Phil: That is helpful for us because it focuses on us on things like being very open and transparent with our members about data use, making sure that all the consents that need to be in place are there, and that our Fibos members are aware and are very clear about how our program works.
Paula: Fantastic.
Paula: And just on another logistical point, you mentioned you’re obviously on the digital transformation journey.
Paula: In terms of your customers being able to update their data or withdraw consent, is that at a point of being self-managed?
Paula: Can they log in to your program and do that at this point?
Paula: Or is it customer call center-managed?
Phil: No, they can do that online.
Phil: But I think, like most programs, we need to watch this very carefully that these things aren’t unintentionally hidden or aren’t obvious or that there are clear paths to members feeling comfortable and choosing their consents carefully.
Phil: So it’s certainly something that we can improve on.
Phil: And I think that mirrors the changing expectations of consumers.
Paula: For sure, for sure.
Paula: But I love picking up on words, Phil, and I really like that you used the words mortal blow.
Paula: And I have seen one program, which again, shall remain nameless at this point, but a hotel brand in Ireland, which had a massive database.
Paula: And it was the end of the company when they did have a major violation of data.
Paula: So yes, I don’t think it can ever be underestimated.
Paula: Even if the financial penalties of GDPR don’t exist, for example, in Australia, it is the trust piece that we are lucky enough to have access to.
Paula: So good to hear you take it so seriously.
Paula: And I think you have one final lesson for us then in terms of your illustrious career.
Phil: I do.
Phil: And that’s about rewards.
Phil: And I think, gosh, thinking back to the conference, I think my headline was, there’s something to be said for toasters.
Paula: Interesting.
Phil: And my main point here is, you know, the 1,000 reward choices in Flybuys, what I love about our program is that we let our members choose how they wish to be rewarded.
Phil: And, you know, the range of rewards goes right from, you know, transactional cash off right through to emotional aspirational.
Phil: And I’ve always had that sense that that’s a strength of the program and that we basically create that marketplace.
Phil: You know, watch very carefully how members are rewarding themselves.
Phil: But just work hard to make sure that’s always engaging.
Paula: And can you share with us which particular categories?
Paula: I think you mentioned velocity already earlier as a program you can transfer your Flybuys points over to.
Paula: What other would you say are the most redeemed rewards?
Phil: Yeah, so Flybuys dollars are very popular.
Phil: And, you know, it’s funny, Paula, but we get several reminders about the diversity of Australian households that are taking awards.
Phil: Yes, at one end, you can really pamper yourself and high-end merchandise and things like that.
Phil: But at Christmas time, it’s not unusual to pick up on social media, you know, struggling households saying, thank you, Flybuys.
Phil: Because of the points I’ve earned, I can afford to have my family around for Christmas dinner, or I can afford to get presents for the kids.
Phil: And so when you’ve got that diversity of membership, they are such solid points that this is not just about a perk that’s adding to the rest of the perks in my life.
Phil: We see people in Struggle Street, and the most outstanding example was we saw on social media, someone say, I had run out of cash, but I remembered I had some flyby dollars stored on my card.
Phil: That doesn’t happen often, but that was a true story.
Phil: So that’s the other side of the coin to thinking about why you have breadths in reward offerings.
Paula: Well, I mean, you said at the beginning of the show, Phil, that you have a love of loyalty.
Paula: I hear it coming through right there.
Paula: That’s a gorgeous story.
Paula: Talk about making a difference for people.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: Yeah.
Phil: So that was quite remarkable.
Paula: Wonderful.
Paula: Wonderful.
Paula: So I love your five lessons.
Paula: I definitely want everyone to really, you know, tune in to everything you’ve captured there for us.
Paula: Just on a practical note, you did mention, you know, the active definition.
Paula: How do you actually just manage activity levels?
Paula: I know your points don’t expire, am I right?
Phil: Your points expire if you don’t use your card for 12 months.
Phil: And so, and basically, you know, we think that that’s a reasonable program rule to have when you’re talking about such everyday items, such as going to, you know, going to the supermarket.
Phil: And really from that perspective, points expiry is not an issue for our members.
Phil: So that’s interesting, because in that unlikely event, not only do we expire your points, we close your membership.
Paula: Okay.
Phil: So…
Phil: Yeah.
Phil: Now, I think, you know, I think there’s actually, this might sound weird, there’s a benefit to that member, because what essentially that mirrors is their right to be forgotten.
Phil: Now, compared with other programs in Australia, where, yes, they have expiry rules, but the membership figures they quote are almost on an ever-joined basis.
Phil: And, you know, I’m certain that some of those programs, their membership numbers include folk who are dormant, if not actually deceased.
Phil: So by definition, I can talk about active members on a 12-month basis.
Phil: Because if they’re not active in 12 months, they’re not in our program.
Paula: Great.
Phil: So when I talk about 8.8 million members within 6.6 million households, you know, two-thirds of Australian households, they are folk that are using the card at least once a year.
Phil: Now, I’m sure you’re going to say, yeah, but you’d like them to use it more than once a year.
Phil: And so naturally, we look at engagement metrics across a range of factors.
Phil: But yeah, some of my loyalty colleagues in Australia know that when there’s a census of, well, how big is your program versus your program versus your program, you end up with a lot of oranges and apples as far as comparison process.
Paula: Yeah, wonderful.
Paula: Wonderful.
Paula: So I guess the final couple of things.
Paula: First of all, we talked all fair just about coronavirus because it’s so topical at the moment and heartbreaking pretty much, I think, for everyone.
Paula: But tell me, you did mention there has been some impact from coronavirus in Australia from your perspective, particularly, I think, with coal.
Paula: So maybe just tell us a bit about what’s going on there.
Phil: So what we’ve seen in the last, it’s really only the last maybe 7 to 10 days, is probably a lot of what you could call panic buying or at least people stocking up on, you know, what you call, I suppose, dry grocery items.
Phil: And unfortunately, we’ve seen in the last probably 4 or 5 days, particularly a lot of panic buying of toilet paper.
Phil: And, you know, it’s almost been a social experiment to observe in terms of, well, I don’t need toilet paper, but because everyone else is seems to be buying a lot, I better buy a lot too.
Phil: So just over the last 4 days, we have sent some broad brush communications to Flyby’s members because unfortunately, Coles and its supermarket competitors in Australia have increasingly had to ration purchases.
Phil: And so that’s, I suppose, that’s one thing we can do on behalf of a significant partner in Coles Supermarkets is quickly go out to Coles customers and basically give them an update.
Phil: So that’s been, I suppose, Paul, the most visible sign over the last week or so in Australia.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: And it is.
Paula: It’s bizarre.
Paula: I think as human beings, actually, we’re not as sophisticated as we think we are.
Paula: So I can imagine.
Paula: If I saw the neighbor coming home with a car full of toilet rolls, I might suddenly think I need to go do the same.
Paula: Where I come from, when the only equivalent example would be, for example, if there’s snow, and Ireland doesn’t cope with snow very well, like Dubai when it rains, but we don’t seem to have panic buying here.
Paula: But in Ireland, if there’s anything like that, it tends to be bread.
Paula: Bizarrely.
Paula: Most of us are having a lot of bread in the house.
Paula: Anyway, yeah, it just proves that loyalty has a role to play, as you said, in terms of communications at more difficult times, which I don’t think we tend to.
Paula: But yes, you do have permission and trust to communicate to people about whatever you feel is appropriate.
Paula: So, yeah, I know from my side, Phil, I’ve learned absolutely loads.
Paula: Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about on the show today before we wrap up?
Phil: The interesting thing for me is a reflection of loyalty trends.
Phil: You know, we’ve spoken a lot about what’s happened the last 25 years.
Phil: And how we think that things are going to move in the future.
Phil: We can see a place for fly-bys to transform from a loyalty program, which will always be part of our business, into, you know, more of a sense of a data and platform company.
Phil: And what that means.
Phil: And, you know, clearly from a channel perspective, the presence we can have from a digital audience perspective.
Phil: The other thing that I think there will be a trend is what I said earlier about the points versus the convenience.
Phil: That, you know, I think some Australian households have a fear around big data, but where they can clearly see that this makes their lives easier and simpler, you know, that can be a focus.
Phil: Well, keeping points always in the background, of course.
Paula: Yeah, yeah.
Paula: No, well, we’ve said points is not dead and it’s not going to die.
Paula: But I think, you know, Phil, I do write a lot about loyalty in the convenience retail industry.
Paula: And I know I have regularly commented on programs that are delivering operational benefits to the members.
Paula: So I fundamentally believe, as you said, once you have that platform in place, let’s just make people’s lives easier.
Paula: So that’s been done by a number of brands around the world.
Paula: And it certainly sounds like Flybuys is doing an amazing job of the same.
Phil: Right.
Paula: Yeah.
Paula: Brilliant.
Paula: So listen, I first of all, before we go, just want to also compliment you working at home today with Flybuys behind you as a big sign just for listeners.
Paula: I found that very amusing that Phil is literally, he’s waving it at me now.
Paula: We’ve got Flybuys front and center on my screen.
Paula: So this is a man who has definitely drunk the Kool-Aid.
Paula: And as you can tell, he lives and breeds loyalty.
Paula: I really enjoyed our conversation, Phil.
Paula: Is there anything else you want to say before we wrap up?
Phil: No, look, thank you for the discussion.
Phil: It’s been stimulating.
Phil: And congratulations on your podcast. it’s a great thing that you’re doing.
Phil: And I look forward to hearing more of your guests in the future.
Paula: Wonderful.
Paula: Thanks a million, Phil, from Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com, and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday.
Paula: Or just head to your favorite podcast platform.
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Paula: Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews, and thanks again for supporting the show.
