Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
The 2023 Consumer Trends Index shares attitudes and desires from over 10,000 consumers on topics such as purchase behavior, preferred marketing channels, privacy and data, as well as what drives loyalty with their favorite brands. You can get your complimentary copy of this report along with access to several free webinars by visiting meetmarigold.com.
Marigold is the home of Cheetah Loyalty, delivering world-class MarTech solutions and industry expertise designed to help marketers of all sizes grow the relationships that grow their business. Learn more at meetmarigold.com.
Hello and welcome to episode 366 of Let’s Talk Loyalty. Today I’m delighted to be chatting with Jamshed Mughal, the Global Vice President of Strategy and Services for Cheetah Digital, part of the Marigold Group. Jamshed has a background working for some of the biggest technology companies in the world, so I was excited to hear his global perspective and advice on how brands can increasingly achieve loyalty as an outcome with their customers, whether or not they have a structured loyalty program.
Jamshed believes in the idea of data enrichment as a key concept, which creates opportunities to dramatically improve the experience for your customers, and that’s regardless of how much or how little marketing technology previously existed in your business. He also reminds us of the differences between zero party data and first party data.
And the value and importance of capturing both of these for your business. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Jamshed Mughal from Cheetah Digital by Marigold.
So Jamshed , welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Jamshed: Thank you for having me, Paula. Lovely to be here.
Paula: Great. I know you’re, you’re coming from a slightly chaotic, transport system in the UK so I really appreciate you getting to do this, in person with me.
Jamshed: No problem. No worries. Yeah, navigating the strikes is always fun.
Paula: Oh my goodness. Yes. Well, listen, you know, Cheetah Digital has been on this show a couple of times, and you are doing some extraordinary work there, which sounds incredibly exciting. And what I really want to get into is your perspective in terms of what you are hearing from all of the clients you’ve got around the world.
So we’re going to have a super interesting conversation about a couple of different topics and trends that you are seeing. But before we get into all of that Jamshed, as you know, we always start this show trying to get an understanding about personal preferences and what, loyalty industry professionals admire about the industry or different programs.
So let’s start by me asking you Jamshed what is your favorite loyalty program?
Jamshed: Well, so I’ve, I’ve thought about a few different answers here. And really thinking about kind of how they impact my life. And so for example, I got a cat for the first time in my life about a year ago, and now I have three.
Paula: Wow.
Jamshed: So the, the Pets at Home loyalty program has been actually incredibly useful. You know they provide a timely, timely vouchers and coupons so the things we need like litter and food. And they’re always welcome, right.
Paula: Totally.
Jamshed: And just handy tips for, for a new pet owner is, is actually really has been really useful, right?
Paula: Yeah. Yeah.
Jamshed: And then they’ve actually recently updated and improved the usability of their app, and I just love the use of engaging experiences. But I’m happy then to share my personal data through because I know yeah, I’ll get value at the end of it.
Paula: Yeah. Wow.
Jamshed: That, that’s, that’s been a, a, a great experience.
Paula: Wow. Well, I’m also a cat mom, I will say so, totally in the zone. I don’t think we have pets at home here in the UAE and maybe that’s an opportunity for them. We of course, have pet stores, but none that have I suppose, really convinced me that they’re you know, genuinely interested in my beloved pets because I think something that we’ve all seen whether it’s through Covid or, or for other reasons, pets are definitely family now.
They might have been kind of left outside in the, you know, in the gardens, you know, when years gone by. But, now I think we take it very seriously. So I have two, you have three, so yeah. Congratulations. That’s super exciting.
Jamshed: Yeah, no, thank you. They’re, they’re a handful. You know, one for each of one of my children. So I’ve got three boys and three cats. So I thought I’d gotta keep that balanced as well.
Paula: Oh my goodness. A very busy household Jamshed. So, so listen to me, first and foremost, I can see your two and a half years, with Cheetah Digital, an incredible product and platform, and always one that I feel is super innovative in terms of your approach to, to running loyalty programs and more importantly, driving loyalty outcomes.
But just, you know, you’ve come from an incredible pedigree at the same time of other big tech companies. So tell us what tempted you to join the Cheetah Digital team in the UK?
Jamshed: Yeah, thank you for asking actually. And it’s a, it’s a great question. And, and I have to actually tell people internally this story as well, to sort of help them understand you know, why the company’s so great and the vision’s so great especially now that we’re Marigold.
And, and that story is really being able to take what we do from a, a, a data enrichment and data capture perspective through engagement, through our messaging tools, all the way through to loyalty and retention. And being able to tell that entire story end to end is so valuable.
And, and, and then being able to take that story to customers and tell it end to end and be able to connect all of their, customer touch points, relate them back to their marketing technology stack. And, and, and just figure out you know, not just try and solve one problem but try and solve the end-to-end customer experience problem of which loyalty is integral.
And, you know, loyalty doesn’t necessarily have to equate to a loyalty program. You know, and there’s a lot of loyalty being the outcome that a lot of brands need and want.
Paula: Yeah, yeah.
Jamshed: So you can take some of the tactics that have been deployed over time, in loyalty programs and bring them into your marketing, your marketing approach, and execute them and still achieve loyalty as an outcome.
Right? And so it’s been really interesting to be able to, you know be able to tell that story of loyalty to customers that don’t have a program, don’t want a program. And for those that do have a program, unifying that story of, loyalty and marketing, right? So that they’re not operating those things in silos.
So it’s, you know, I get quite excited and passionate about that. And, and being able to enrich data all the way through as well. There’s a huge reason why, you know, Cheetah Digital was, was really important to me cause I I kind of understood the vision that they’re, you know, we’ve been pushing for.
And being able to execute on that vision has been a pleasure, right. And seeing our customers have great success. So that, that’s, that’s why, that’s why I’m here and that’s why I’m staying.
Paula: Amazing, amazing. And actually, I feel quite relieved as you explained that Jamshed, because I do think we have a lot of, challenges as loyalty industry professionals, and I think one of those is that siloed approach that you are alluding to, like the fact that loyalty programs have often existed independently.
And quite isolated and of course reporting into the chief marketing officer, but they’re kind of seen as very separate. And I think maybe historically that was because of the marketing technology stack that was in place. Maybe the CRM system was bought at a different time. Maybe, you know, a long time before, for example, loyalty program was conceived.
But I’m guessing that CMOs are feeling the disconnect. And I’m guessing their customers are telling them actually, because there’s no doubt it exists. And what I’m guessing is the fact that you’re going and having that coherent conversation, I’m guessing that’s very impressive to them, that they’re not hearing you say you need a loyalty program because that’s not what they need.
Jamshed: Yeah, exactly. Right. So, you know, technology vendors, loyalty vendors will be pushing that story, right, because they wanna sell their product. However, you know, from a a customer standpoint, that’s not always the right thing to do. And it can actually have a negative impact, on, on your customer base.
So, you know, for, for Marigold being and, and, and Cheetah having this portfolio of products that allows us to sort of take the best of each com, you know, take, take components of each platform and bring those together to create the right experience for the customer just makes my job a lot easier, right? When we are thinking about outcomes before the customer’s customer.
Paula: Yeah. Yeah, of course. And I do love this term that you used Jamshed, should you used it last time we met as well. This idea of data enrichment, it feels like a very, I suppose first of all, accessible and thankfully logical approach to, you know, driving that, you know, outcome as you’re talking about.
So I’d love to just hear you explain exactly what do you mean by data enrichment when you’re having these conversations with marketers.
Jamshed: Absolutely. So if we think about, you know, the first party data cus… customer data that, we, we have to give, right? Whether it’s for an e-commerce transaction or a loyalty program, sign up, etcetera.
And then, then there’s transactional data, right? So that’s all kind of first party data that we have. And, you know, we can make some smart decisions, around personalization with just that data, right? However, if I’m telling you explicitly, and this is kind of our definition of or, and Forrester’s definition of zero party data, I’m explicitly then telling you on top of all that first party data that you know, I have preferences for, you know, colors or products or brands, or you know music artists or sports, entertainment, what, whatever it is, I’m telling you explicitly what I am interested in, and therefore you can use that to create authentic, personalized experiences, and ex inform those experiences, through, you know omnichannel brand interactions, create, you know, customer insights.
To actually make those experiences even more relevant in the future and then use that data to build rich segments to activate the data that you’ve collected, so you’re only enhancing those relationships longer term. So the collection of sociographic demographic behavior and psychographic data is what I mean by data enrichment.
Using all those data points to take customer’s profile and enrich it beyond just the need to know information. The first party data. And, and, and, you know, enhancing it with the zero party data that, you wouldn’t normally get. Without, you know, without consent and permission, which is kind of what, you know, and, and not, not just do that to do acquisition. You can do that throughout the whole customer life cycle. And you can do it in, in, in a, in a, in a quiz, in a survey, and, and so many other mechanics. But you can also do it in, you know, iteratively right in smaller chunks. So just maybe a yes no.
You know, just, through people clicking certain content and pulling information that way as well. So, it just, it just supercharges your personalization, right?
Paula: Totally. Yeah.
Jamshed: And if you can supercharge your personalization you can then create the right outcomes, be more relevant, drive ultimately sales, right?
I mean everything, I always joke with customers, when I run workshops with them about their objectives and I always say that, sales is a given. Don’t need to go over that one. Increasing revenues are given. Yeah. What else is important to you? Right.
Paula: And what do they say? Actually, I’m super curious because I’ve been really impressed with your LinkedIn profile that you have been, you know, literally out, you know, preaching to the, the CMOs, and I use that word very sincerely because I think the audience listening to this show, you know, are very aware of the powered importance of what I call, I love this term, progressive profiling. Which is what you’ve just alluded to.
Jamshed: Yeah.
Paula: You can tell I love jargons. So data enrichment is my new one from you. So, so I do think this audience is very clear on yes, we’ve got our transactional data that’s operational.
That’s totally fine. Zero party data, I think we’ve all been asking for, for an awful long time, sometimes does sit in different databases to your point, but what, what kind of reaction are you getting from chief marketing officers in terms of their perspective of this customer re relationship priority?
Jamshed: Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting and it, and it varies, you know, some don’t value it as much. Right. Because they’re still in a very much a batch and blast, kind of one size fits all in prey mindset. But there are a growing number that are kind of appreciating the value of micro-segmentation, hyper-personalization.
But I think what they struggle with is understanding how to operationalize that.
Paula: Okay.
Jamshed: And, and then also resourcing for that, right? How do they evolve their teams, from, you know, managing these sort of sales oriented campaigns to having always on customer life cycle. Attached kind of programs running that are continuously drip feeding, right?
So it’s not just, a spike in sales, every month or every week when you send the newsletter out. It’s a continuous feeding of, of sales kind of across, across the business. So, you know, and, and, and they’re struggling to kind of make that shift from this, you know, campaigns oriented approach to sort of journeys and always on approach.
And I think that’s, that’s the biggest barrier for, for them to understand. So that’s kind of what we’ve been focusing on and helping customers kind of overcome.
Paula: I can imagine that feeling like, yes, it’s a good idea and I can totally imagine worrying about the implications on resources, and I suppose first of all, educating the marketing team or the loyalty team, whatever may be in place in order to make that shift.
Do you find that they do tend to need to either increase the team size? Or I, I, I’m guessing they definitely need to upskill. What, what type of approach do you recommend to, I suppose, put their mind at rest with that kind of shift?
Jamshed: Yeah, so, you know, I guess we’re in a, a, a great position because not, we also provide the, the strategy and services for our customers.
So we’re able to sort of augment the customer team temporarily as they help make that shift. So that and, and through that process, we’re able to enable them. Right. So you know, the goal of, you know, me and my team is to help customers get more value out of their technology investment. Right.
And and, and in doing so, you know, we can, we can take some of the load off initially and show them how it should be done. And then, enable them so that they can do it themselves longer term.
Paula: Oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Cause we all want self-serve, but it’s quite terrifying at the same time.
Jamshed: Yeah, exactly. And especially if there’s a gap in skill set and not just a, you know, a, a technical or functional one but a strategic one. Right. If you haven’t got the, the mindset for personalization at scale then you will struggle, right? Because all you know is kind of batch and blast. Let’s just throw everything into this newsletter and, and hope for the best.
And then, you know, using, having a different approach and different mindset, just takes a lot, right? It takes a lot of shift.
Paula: Totally.
Jamshed: Culturally, operationally, to, to, to make that change. And you know deliver more valuable communications that are relevant as well so.
Paula: Well, it makes sense because for me, you know, the more you say batch and blast, the more embarrassed I am about thinking about things that I have done in the past.
And, you know, dare I say it, perhaps still do because I don’t necessarily have the right technology expertise, guidance, who knows what, but yes, it, it, it does make perfect sense. And I like the hand holding, that’s going on there.
Tell us about some of the sectors that you focus on, because I know there’s some in particular that you and I share as, as a passion, I suppose, because there’s the, there’s the usual suspects and we all know the sub-sectors that are you know, very mature, let’s say, but there’s others that are less mature and really just starting to explore.
So tell us about some of the, the, the various different ones that you are working on.
Jamshed: Sure. You know, I’ve, I’ve had the pleasure to work on, you know, multiple industries in my, in my, in my career. But the ones that we are kind of currently focused on, are, are retailers. QSRs, so quick serve restaurants.
You know, there’s actually some in the finance space as well, media and publishing. And so media publishing and, and CPG are two areas that, you know have historically kind of you know, done the batch and blast thing. But are now pivoting and, and on a journey to figuring out like what does loyalty mean to them.
You know, particularly the CPG, you know, they’ve got, it’s quite complex for them, right? So with CPGs, the, the challenge of not having B2C and, and commerce and the commerce is done via affiliates like Amazon and, and high street retailers, CPGs have got this unique opportunity to develop propositions to drive sort of cross brand and product loyalty.
And so, you know, we’re working with a, a bunch of different CPGs globally. Some are kind of starting with a data enrichment process, right? So enriching their data, first of all. So understanding the customer before trying to make a decision about what loyalty looks like. Others have kind of done that step and are moving now into creating lot cross brand loyalty programs, but then, you know, using tactics like receipt scanning to I, you know, so people can identify their products being purchased and then reward customers accordingly. Another, another customer of ours launched a sustainability based or themed loyalty program in the UK. So, which is really interesting, right?
Paula: Totally.
Jamshed: So it rewards customers, for consuming content and, you know, learning more about sustainability for how the, those products and brands actually deliver sustainability and how they keep their promise to sustainability and at the same time are able to reward their customers.
And you know, keep them loyal to products through delivering coupons and vouchers. And that’s something that they you know, couponing and vouchering is not new. Right? But the way to deliver it and the way to engage customers and, and, have a value exchange with them is evolving.
Paula: Yeah. And, and CPG is the one I was referring to in terms of the, the shared passion. Because in fact, I was even talking recently with some of our audience we had a, a live session and I was asking you know what kind of problems are you facing as loyalty professionals? And one specifically, it wasn’t FMCG but it was a, a manufacturing brand that has this exact problem actually in the electronic space where they’re selling through high street retailers.
And his exact question was, you know, how do I build loyalty when I don’t have the direct relationship? So I think there is, you know, again, a huge evolution going back to what airlines faced 40 years ago, you know, having to go through the intermediaries of travel agencies back in those days. They invented this whole loyalty space of course, in order to address this problem.
And at the time, I’m guessing there wasn’t a direct sales agenda because obviously e-commerce wouldn’t have existed, but of course that became a benefit as well. So I guess what I’m wondering is in terms of FMCG you know, they’re probably never really going to have the same sales agenda, but I guess they can support their intermediaries by building that brand allegiance, building that, education piece.
So to me, what Unilever is doing sounds absolutely incredible in the UK.
Jamshed: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the, the what I, what I try and talk to our CPG customers about is the value of the data that they, they’re able to then collect and then use in with their partnerships? Right. So with their affiliates, with their retailers.
And, and have this, you know, the idea of a, a clean room where they can share the data, you know so the, the sometimes we don’t know. They don’t always have the attribution of the sale and the permissions of the data. So, you know, the concept of clean rooms is really interesting as well.
But you know, these brands if they build up this data around their customers, it becomes a valuable asset that they can then use in negotiations with these people as well. Because if they can then target, or, or introduce the buy now button for that particular rate retailer into their comms is gonna be really interesting to them, right?
Because, you know, other CPGs don’t ultimately care where a customer buys from as long as they’re buying their product. Right? I think that’s a key goal. So then it, we, we, we, we shift it, right? Because initially that, it’s the Amazons or the, or the, supermarket that is in more control there with the, with the, with the CPG brand by having this valuable data asset, the power, the shifting, power changes.
Paula: Totally. Wow. That’s quite exciting.
Jamshed: I think so. I’m, I’m hoping the customers can see that vision as well. And yeah, can get on board.
Paula: My sense is it might take time, Jamshed because it feels, still very new even for me. And I’m talking about innovation and loyalty, you know, day in, day out.
So, so I’m guessing that you are having to take them on the journey. And I know GDPR is something that you guys are of course, you know, first and foremost has to be you know, done in a very reassuring way because when none of us can afford to, to really think about these kind of conversations without up that upfront conversations.
So do you find they’re still nervous about you know, the whole data compliance piece? This clean room idea is one I’ve heard. But a lot of people immediately from a legal perspective back away in my experience. But it sounds like you’re finding ways to do it that they’re comfortable with.
Jamshed: Yeah. So actually, you know, it’s actually back to the, the journey and the journey that we, we, we are taking customers on is, is through data enrichment initially.
Right? So building up the data, right? Having a, a solid foundation in data is, a great way and, and by collecting data the correctly and with the right consent, we’re overcoming some of those legal kind of concerns. Right?
And, and then it’s kind of then figuring out, right, okay, how do we navigate those legal, orders with the clean rooms, right?
So we’ve got this concept of clean rooms and the idea is great. And, and this is also I guess not massively new because the idea, when DMPs were still around, was to, you know, be able to share all this data and, and, and do that. And then obviously GDVR came along and, yeah, DMPs disappeared.
But the concept still exists, right? And it’s now just trying to figure out, how we navigate those legal orders. But there’s definitely ways to do it.
Paula: And just for people who are not familiar with the jargon, because I’m, I’m guessing that’s DMP is data management platform, am I right?
Jamshed: That’s right. Yeah.
Paula: Okay. Okay. Just because our, our audience is global, so it might be called something else in the US or Australia or something. So, so super good to hear. Yeah, so, so that makes perfect sense. And the final piece on that particular case that you talked about, Jamshed, is did you save some form of reward for people consuming content?
Jamshed: Yeah, so you can, essentially collect points for consuming content.
Paula: Amazing. Yeah, yeah.
Jamshed: Yeah, and then, you can then convert those points into to coupons and vouchers.
Paula: Super.
Jamshed: To useful products.
Paula: Yeah. And and I really, again, I suppose as a content creator, find that very inspiring. And brands like Boots, for example, I’ve had on the show as well, who’ve talked about actually investing in content as a loyalty driver.
But what I’m hearing that you are talking about is, you know, make incentivizing it and when there is that upside in terms of they’re learning about the sustainable piece. So I think you mentioned the words brand promise. So actually what you’re doing is you’re incentivizing people to then also become more loyal in, in terms of the emotional loyalty, dare I say it.
Jamshed: Absolutely.
Paula: That feels very different. And one of the questions I get all the time is, we know this transactional loyalty and emotional loyalty is two distinct objectives, but how do we do the emotional loyalty piece? So would I be right in saying that, that’s one solution that you advocate in terms of achieving that?
Jamshed: Oh, a hundred percent. Right. So, you know, the brand has so many opportunities to tell their story and connect with their customers. And it’s, so it’s not always about a transaction. You know, so it could be through partnerships and sponsorships and you know it could be the, the, the brand advocate that they, the, the customer’s really interested in or the story that they’re telling. But we know that, you know, for, for this new generation, that charity sustainability, all these themes are really important. So it’s important to tap into those now. And to bring this new generation along and not just target, you know, the older generation who are used to loyalty programs.
And are real used to the sort of transactional part of the loyalty program. And so, by, you know, developing strategies around emotional loyalty is going to capture the hearts of the you know, the newer generations.
Paula: Amazing. And tell me then other sectors I know at QSR you mentioned quick service restaurants, and I know they have to remain nameless for now, but huge success globally in terms of operationalizing some, some concepts for, for quick service restaurants.
So what kind of trends are you seeing in that space?
Jamshed: So with those guys, it’s, you know, it is so much more about the transaction and in-store experience and, and making life easier, right.
Paula: Okay. Yeah, removing the friction.
Jamshed: Removing the friction, from the process so connecting payment cards, so the whole process, the whole transaction is done in one hit.
You’re not having to scan a loyalty card and then pay separately. It’s all done in one here. You know integrating delivery and you know, mobile collection all that kind of stuff is important as well. So just making the whole experience seamless, frictionless, is kind of seems to be the, the gold, right.
You know, not, some people just wanna go through the drive-through and pick their food up. Some people want it delivered. You know, so it’s just making sure that your, your, your loyalty engagement and your app is kind of connected to all these partners and that the process processes seamless so it doesn’t differ from one partner to another. So that, that the backend gets complex, you know, but it’s, you know, if it drives the right outcome, it’s worth the effort.
Paula: For sure. And I know some of your clients are global, Jamshed. Would you say like what parts of the world do you think are, I suppose more aligned with this thinking and, and the reason I’m asking is very selfish actually.
For me, payment linked loyalty is the one that I keep hearing about from the industry, are not seeing as a consumer like I really want that you know, frictionless experience where I pay and I get my points. Like, so, so where is that coming out in, like, which markets are, are embracing it, would you say?
Jamshed: Well, I’m, I’m, as a consumer, I’m definitely using it. Right. I’m finding it definitely, appearing more and more in, in the UK. And from my understanding of what we’re doing with our global customers is that the, the US obviously are keen on adopting that type of approach as well. And I believe our Middle East customers have integrated that functionality into their, apps as well.
Paula: Amazing.
Jamshed: So it’s, it’s really interesting when we talk about global, because obviously, you know, people assume the UK and US are ahead of the curve. But there is a lot of the BRIC markets that have really have made some leaps because they, what they haven’t done is created a legacy. So they’ve gone from not having anything to having all the new stuff straight outta the bat.
So they don’t, didn’t have to worry about navigating legacy and, and some of the legacy has actually held some of the more advanced markets back. Right.
Paula: Totally. Yes.
Jamshed: So I find that really interesting. So some of the Asian markets, middle East markets, Africa, and so on are able to leverage more of the newer technology faster because they don’t have the legacy.
Paula: I’ve certainly heard of that when I talk to a couple of clients in Africa as well, Jamshed, so, and, BRIC from memory is Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Am I right with remembering my geography?
Jamshed: Yes.
Paula: Good. Okay. Because honestly, I’m such a wordy, I’m so geeky about it. So uses me when I talk to somebody who uses a word and I’m like, do I know what that means? Super cool, but no, I, I definitely agree and again, it’s some industries are, are sometimes ham hampered as well. So again, we’ve already touched on, you know travel and hospitality.
So coming from an airline background, I know what it’s like when you’re trying to make changes and you’ve got massive infrastructure that’s been there for 30 or 40 years. So it is in many ways more exciting to be working in markets that are doing that whole leapfrog in, and literally going straight in with the, those incredible concepts.
And one of my favorite examples, actually, I remember writing an article about it, which I’ll put in the show notes just in case anybody’s interested, but it’s a quick service restaurant so it’ll be close to your heart. But it was KFC in China and I really loved the fact that they really built their, their app as almost a super app in its own right.
Like all of these concepts that you’re talking about, it had the payments, it had the deliveries, it had the gamification. It had actually incredible stuff where I believe you could change the music in the restaurant with a jukebox functionality.
Jamshed: Amazing.
Paula: Like super amazing, cool, fun, innovative. And I’m not saying that that’s gonna work in every market. But when we think about you know, the reality of app fatigue, which I do think many of us suffer from then I think a brand that can go yeah, we’ll, not just make it quicker and easier, but we will make it fun and we’ll totally change your experience in the store.
So it sounds like that’s the approach that you guys are taking.
Jamshed: Absolutely. And, and that actually, you know, reminds me of the, that, that, that trend of, you know, physical and digital experience coming together. So, you know, being able to, have that digital experience inside the physical stores is is definitely something that, you know, more and more of our customers are looking to enhance.
Paula: Totally.
Jamshed: Obviously, Starbucks being one of our customers are, are, you know, have been sort of leading the way there. And you know, their app connects the convenience of ordering with the fun experience of their loyalty program, right.
Paula: For sure.
Jamshed: So and they’re one of the first companies to do so. And it’s, and, and what, what’s great about them is that they continue to bring in new features like, you know, new rewards or in app gains and other campaigns. So that it’s more than just about the coffee. It’s about the whole Starbucks experience.
Paula: For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And actually when I ask my opening question, Jamshed, it’s very often the Starbucks is the one that is quoted. So, again, huge kudos to Starbucks. And the piece that I always find extra fascinating actually is also the, the cost saving that they’ve managed to build in, because they’ve got their own you know, gift carding and essentially pre purchasing.
So to, I suppose, go around the need necessarily to have a credit card, for example, on file, you can actually pay in advance you know, using the Starbucks credit and that’s a huge cost saving. So I think Starbucks is a bit of a genius when it comes to that whole sector. So definitely, again one that’s on our wishlist.
So please God, we’ll get them on the show at some point in the future.
Jamshed: We’ll, we’ll keep trying.
Paula: Amazing, amazing. So I think we’ve covered all of the big ideas, big trends, Jamshed from my perspective. Really excited to hear about the work that you’re doing. Are there any other big topics that you are thinking about or excited about for our audience before we wrap up?
Jamshed: I think another really cool innovation are the experiential rewards that we can offer as part of a loyalty program. So, you know, it’s always great to get, points and then just convert the points into, you know purchases. But that’s fine. You know, that tick a box. But another one of our customers, the North Face are, are doing some great things with incentives and, and those incentives can actually create such rich memories, right?
So they reward with experiences, right? And those experiences could be a concert or an event, cultural activities. And I think that just only will delight the participant and, and help build more brand loyalty as well.
Paula: Nice. Okay.
Jamshed: So yeah, you know, I think a hike in the, in the, in Nepal would be very memorable, right versus another accessory.
Paula: For sure. In fact, you know, even a hike in the Dubai Mountains here, we, we do have a few small ones, doesn’t compare with Nepal, but absolutely. I do find when a brand, particularly on a local level, and I don’t know what way the North Face are doing it, I mean clearly in incredible brand, incredible client for you to have.
But yeah, I think facilitating those experiences is something that people love to do because then they feel part of the North Face community. So very, very exciting. So listen, it’s been a really wonderful con conversation Jamshed. I’m guessing there are going to be people listening to the show that will want to reach out and maybe have a conversation with you.
So where is the best place for people to find you if they want to?
Jamshed: Yeah. Well, you can always find me on LinkedIn.
Paula: Okay. Yeah.
Jamshed: And then, and then through the Marigold and Cheetah Digital websites.
Paula: Super. Yeah.
Jamshed: Feel free to make content through there. And we definitely can be in touch, but yeah, happy to connect with the community on, on LinkedIn.
Paula: Fantastic. And I’ll make sure, of course, that we link to your LinkedIn on our show notes to make sure people can find you easily or of course reach out to me to make sure we can, connect everyone. So with that said, Jamshed, Mughal, Global Vice President of Strategy and Services for Cheetah Digital.
Thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Jamshed: Thanks Paula. Thanks for having me.
Paula: This show was sponsored by The Wise Marketer. The most popular source of loyalty, marketing, news, insights, and research. The Wise Marketer also offers loyalty marketing training through its Loyalty Academy, which is already certified over 500 executives in 38 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.
For more information, check out thewisemarketer.com and loyaltyacademy.org.
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