Paula: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m Paula Thomas, the Founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and also now Loyalty TV. Today’s episode is hosted by Amanda Cromhaut, the Founder of Truth, an international loyalty consultancy, and the Author of the book, Blind Loyalty, 101 Loyalty Concepts Radically Simplified.
If you work in loyalty marketing, you can watch our latest video interviews every Thursday, Wednesday, and Friday on www.loyalty.tv. And of course, you can also listen to Let’s Talk Loyalty every Tuesday, every Wednesday, and every Thursday to learn the latest ideas from loyalty experts around the world.
Amanda: Hello, I’m Amanda Cromhout, CEO and Founder of Truth. And today I have the absolute pleasure of talking to Mateboho Malope. She is the Managing Executive of Group Loyalty and Product Operating Model for Vodacom Group across Africa. Vodacom is the 30 years old and actually has an addressable customer base of 500 million customers.
Their loyalty program VodaBucks is four years old and pioneers behavioral goal setting, driving engagement for an inclusive model for all of its customers. VodaBucks, however, isn’t just in South Africa, recently launched in Tanzania and is scaling across the African continent.
Vodacom is also a fintech platform. Its biggest well known brand is M-PESA across Africa, with an absolute remarkable 51 million customers and 340 billion US dollars in transactions per annum. And finally, in my interview with Matabeho, she talks about how Vodacom is transitioning from a telco to a technology company, and which therefore has driven their decision to build their loyalty platform in house rather than an outsourced solution. They have really put skin in the game. To summarize, for the Vodacom group, VodaBucks, their loyalty and rewards platform amplifies value for their customers. It drives incrementality for the enterprise and consolidates customer value.
So Mateboho, welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty. It’s such a pleasure to have you.
Mateboho: Hey Amanda, thank you so much for having me. It’s an absolute delight to be joining you today. Thank you.
Amanda: Thank you. Thank you for joining us. We have had a Vodacom on Let’s Talk Loyalty before. It was quite a while ago. It was in November, 2020 when George Mendes came on, came on the show. So goodness me, it’s almost four years. So we’ve got lots and lots to talk about with your fabulous brand and fabulous program.
So, but as you know, we have a very special first question, so let’s kick off with that. So Mateboho, what is your favorite loyalty program?
Mateboho: Wow. Yeah. It’s always very funny how, you know, you know, this question is going to come, but every time when it pops up, you’re like, okay, wait, which one is it going to be?
So as you know, I really have my usual favorites, which is Discovery Vitality and eBucks. But today I really want to just You know, zoom differently into another recent favorite of mine. Funny enough, it’s been around for years. But I have recently been enjoying my clicks benefits where I get to use my points to pay for my shopping, which really gives me that feel good factor.
I mean, for those who don’t know, Clicks is one of South Africa’s leading health and beauty retailer, and it offers very for my new convenience. So they have a coalition model where you can accumulate points across, you know, various partner network. So typically when I do my fuel fill up, that’s when I have my lazy aiming of accumulating, you know, Clicks points, because by virtue of just producing my Clicks cut, I get to accumulate points. So it’s really been quite a nice spoil just redeeming my clicks points on pilot trees and stuff like that.
Amanda: It’s great. You mentioned Clicks because they’ve been mentioned before with In chapter 100 of Blind Loyalty, I recorded from Paula’s show, from Let’s Talk Loyalty, all of the favorite programs. And Clicks certainly was mentioned a couple of times. So that’s another, another Clicks for Clicks. So well done, Mateboho.
Mateboho: Absolutely. And great value for money, to be honest. I think that one point is worth 10 cents. So it’s really quite a compelling proposition. So, so yeah.
Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. And as we know from the Truth and Brand Map loyalty white paper in South Africa for many years, they’ve been top of the pile of most used loyalty program. They were pipped at the post this year by Checkers Extra Savings, but marginally so. So they really are very, very robust and well respected South African loyalty program.
Mateboho: Absolutely.
Amanda:I have the honor and privilege of knowing you and have known you for many years, and I know lots about you, but I’m not too sure everybody listening to let’s talk loyalty has the same privilege. So, so let’s, let’s get everybody up to speed. So obviously in your current role, you’re managing executive group loyalty and product operating model for Vodacom. Now, first of all, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll talk about you and then we’ll talk a little bit about Vodacom. So please talk us through your career. Cause you’ve got some very illustrious loyalty brands behind your name. So please share that with us.
Mateboho: Thanks, Ms. Amanda. So as you know, just indicated earlier that I am the Managing Executive, you know, at Vodacom group, and I oversee the group loyalty and product operating model. And my role essentially is responsible for delivering on Vodacom’s ambition of connecting customers for a better future whilst enabling a digital society. I’m sure you will appreciate that in Africa. It’s not all customers who have seamless connectivity. So it really is part of our heartbeat to unlock that digital inclusivity for our customers. And of course, you know, in my role, I do that through a universal and versatile loyalty platform that is ultimately the value driver for our customers.
So, I mean, my Vodacom journey, it started about, I’ll say about almost eight years ago. It’s really been that while in Vodacom South Africa, where I launched the Vodacom Rules program, which was at the time, first of its kind in the South African telco industry, and the success of which really led to Vodacom’s ambition of scaling their model across the, the, the, the group markets, which is now my current role.
But prior to joining Vodacom, I’d say I’ve really held various positions across different industries spending from the energy sector, FMCG, financial services, and of course telco being, you know, Vodacom. But prior to Vodacom, I was the CFO of Mobile Money at MTN South Africa, where I overlooked or oversaw the entire partner relations portfolio and I started off the actually in the finance department funny enough because I wasn’t initially in loyalty but then my career progressed.
And then I, I, I, when I left MTN South Africa, I was overseeing that Mobile Money and the partnership that they had at a time with TymeBank. Which had subsequently posed that went and launched their own bank. So I used to work with those that team.
And then after Discovery, I mean, I, I assumed the role of a divisional manager at Discovery Vitality, overseeing that entire commercial portfolio on boarding partners, designing the bullet proposition that we know today. One of the highlights really during my stay there was the launch of Active Rewards and Discovery Purple. And for those who are in South Africa, you would know that Active rewards is still you know, the main highlight in as far as how Discovery is managing to engage its customers on a daily basis today.
And in prior to that, I think I was, I had some roles, like one of them, I was a country finance manager at General Electrics. As I said, my career really started off in finance before I moved into you know, the marketing and the strategy role. And I was also a finance manager at Nestle South Africa, where I really oversaw the entire reporting portfolio, including accounts payable and accounts receivable.
So really my career has really been, I would say it’s almost like a diverse portfolio where I was mainly driven by my passion to not only report on numbers, but to craft innovative and transformative strategies. That first is that, you know, user centricity, but equally inform how customers behave in order to have an impact in the business. And I think that’s how I then transitioned from finance to pursue more of a loyalty obsessed career that gives me access to impact the broader business model.
Amanda: Thank you. I actually can’t believe it’s eight years at Vodacom. I remember the day you walked into Vodacom when I was running a workshop for your predecessors.
Mateboho: Yes. Yes.
Amanda: Wow. But what’s amazing there is the breadth, you know, you’re not just, not just a telco loyalty expert, you know, you’ve got telco FMCG wellness with the Vitality brand utilities and so forth. So yeah. Yeah. And I always praise career paths like that because you can, can’t help, but pick up such experience that helps every role as you build on it. So thank you for sharing that. And I actually tapped into your knowledge from Telco for chapter 74 of Blind Loyalty where you’re the contributor to that chapter. So worth a read as well.
So, so you’ve touched on Vodacom as a business, but I think, I mean, Vodafone globally is obviously very well known and it’s an obvious derivative of that Vodacom. So talk us through if you can, about the Vodacom business, where, which geographical area does it cover? Tell us a little bit more about this Vodacom brand.
Mateboho: Sure. Thanks, Ms. Amanda. I mean, Vodacom is a leading and purpose led African connectivity company, and it’s also, you know, a digital and financial services, as you know, typically in the South African context, we have what we call Vodapay. But then across the African markets, we have our mobile money you know, known as M-PESA.
And we just recently celebrated our 30th anniversary, you know, speak of which how time flies. It’s been 30 years since Vodacom has been operating in the South African market. And then from a group point of view, I think when you include markets like SafariCom, Vodacom Group in its entirety, we serve over 200 million customers which spends across, you know, the consumer business model, our enterprise segments as well as our FinTech model.
However, from our roots in South Africa, as you know, the group has its own business, which includes, you know, operations in the DRC, Egypt, Ethiopia, Kenya, Lesotho, Mozambique, and Tanzania. So across all the eight markets, we really have in excess of 500 million addressable base. That’s essentially how you know, the depth and breadth of the business across all African markets. And as you rightfully mentioned, I mean, Vodacom is majority owned by Vodafone which holds majority stake across the group.
Amanda: That’s incredible numbers. You know, 500 million addressable base. Like that’s just remarkable in such a young company. I know you say it’s 30 years old, so that sounds like an old company, but actually for companies, it’s not that old.
You know, if you think about it’s old enough to be utterly respected and established. And I remember when it was launched actually. So it’s lovely to hear you say that, but you know, the actual loyalty program, what we’re going to come on to now is a lot younger. I think a 30 year old loyalty program is seemingly old, but half a billion addressable base across the African continent, that’s remarkable. Remarkable.
So, so let’s move into rewards loyalty and rewards. That’s what we’re really here to talk about today. So the VodaBucks brand is your rewards program. I’m personally very, very fond of it, but it’s almost four years old. And last time we chatted, you said you had 26 million members who are engaging 60 million of which actively engaging monthly. That’s, these are also gargantuan numbers, so I think what we need to understand from you as a starting point is how does VodaBucks actually work? What is the customer experience?
Mateboho: Okay. Thanks for that question, Ms. Amanda, but I think it would be nice also just, you know, reflect prior to the journey of VodaBucks, as you rightfully, you know, pointed out that Vodacom, you know, being a 30 year old company, prior to VodaBucks, we have a legacy proposition at the time and which was running for about 12 years when I joined back then, and Vodacom then had to reimagine, you know, it’s lots of programming in August, then of 2020, that’s when we introduced this voter backs proposition, which we, we really see as a single and inclusive value proposition that was intended.
Not only to reward and appreciate our loyal customers, but to also build a more relational connection with all our customers. So just talking about then how it works. It really allows customers to end the points through the things that they already do. I think that’s really one of the key things that I really I see almost like as that point that we speak about of lazy earning customers are earning for the things that they already do. We know that they were going to engage the network, whether in the form of, you know, mobile spend or their contract that they’ve taken it with us or their fixed services that they’ve taken with us. That’s essentially the core of the value proposition rewarding customers for the things they already do.
But then in terms of what it is that they can really you know, earn or accumulate their points on, I’ve spoken to it already, it’s recharges. It could be settlement of your bill. And then in addition to the lazy earning component, what we introduced was the whole notion of personalized behavioral goals that allows us to really be deliberate about that ambition of saying we want to move from being transactional, but a little bit more relational with you.
And that’s how the behavioral goals have unlocked the ability for customers to accumulate beyond their spend. I mean, as you know, in the South African context, majority of our customers could barely accumulate, you know, fast enough for them to have more points. So one of the things we were deliberate about was how are we going to run a program that puts those that cannot who do not have the highest propensity to earn.
You put them at the top of the pyramid by virtue of their engagement on the platform. And that has really allowed us to then have this inclusive model where every customer could unlock points by virtue of how they engage with the network beyond their spend. So whether a customer is on the network for X number of days, they could unlock bonus points or whether they are consuming other services beyond just mobile offerings that we have that will unlock more you know, opportunities for them to earn even just watching content like one of the challenges Intel because that we have a lot of products and to socialize those products. You really need, you know, at time and loyalty is really such a platform that allows us to socialize awareness on self service channels or other products that we’ve launched and that way customers can accelerate the earning.
And then beyond ending, then there was you know, as I said, we’ve reimagined our really proposition, we came in with a history that saw, you know, the high is the amount of liability in our books. And then one of the challenges was to say, how are you going to launch a program that will be highly engaging, but very driven for customers whilst we are really in tune with the movement of these points in our balance sheet.
And that’s how we introduced the concept of banking way for points that have been accumulated. The customers have to either bank or accept them so that they can been be eligible for redemption. And what this feature really did, not only did it obviously help us to drive active engagement with our customers, but it elevated awareness for those customers who are lazy, you know, earnest and then suddenly the awareness was there to say, Oh, I have these points that can bend them. And in ones of bend them, we see that the conversion from pessimism bent their points relative to those that redeem them, it’s definitely over 80%. Which really did the job that we wanted to solve for really elevate awareness for customers to use their points as opposed to us expiring them.
And of course the last lead to the proposition is then once the points have been banked, the customers can redeem their points on a range of categories, some of which includes some cool stuff like donating their points towards impactful and life changing charitable organization of which Blind Loyalty is one.
And the recent changes that the guys have included where things like converting their points into our voter pay wallet, which allows not only, you know, customers getting tangible cash for their points, but equally integrating our business model as an ecosystem. And, and, and over and above these, I mean, customers can spoil themselves with a range of fashion, household essentials, electronics, and so much more. So that’s essentially really the model, you know, earn bank to spend.
Amanda: Yes. And I remember when you introduced, when you launched your program and you, you introduced the concept of banking. I don’t know of another program immediately that was doing that, you know, the debate was, is it adding another hurdle versus deeper engagements? And I think you’ve, you’ve proven it’s driving deeper engagement, which, you know, I, I, and, and also commercially how it can, can make sense to you as a program operator as well. So from a customer point of view and from you as a business.
And I also just, one of the things you were saying there that I most want to just pull out of that discussion is, we know certainly in South Africa, that’s the, one of the biggest hurdles for engagement on a loyalty program is a statement that came through in the Truth and Blind Loyalty white paper this year and previous years that I just don’t earn enough to earn. I just don’t spend enough to earn And IE, they can’t earn the currency enough, as you’ve just said, and you are really are one of the big supporters, voter, VodaBucks program is really demonstrating one of my favorite parts of loyalty program behavior is this engagement behavioral goals rather than just transactional goals. And you’ve been doing it for years. So it’s, it’s actually great that you’ve consistently just held the line with that to serve your customer base, but also you know, drive this deeper engagements as well.
Mateboho: Yeah. And I think Amanda, this was really motivated by, you know, as saying, do we really want to hear the customer voice? Right? I mean, we will leverage channels like social media, call center you know, insights that we get in verbatims from customers where they speak. And I think it’s just as saying, how can we deliberately and consistently make sure that I’ve really proposition is inclusive. And I think the behavioral goals component enables us to, to, to keep that truth and consistently maintain that model.
Amanda: Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you for explaining. So, so four years on almost, I know we’re not quite at the fourth year birthday. How is it going? Like, what has it performing? If you had to give us an executive summary of KPI performance of the program, how is it performing?
Mateboho: Look, I must say, I mean, for, for most years, I think this was the topic that I would like deliberately, you know, avoid. Because you didn’t want to speak too soon but if I were to zoom into you know the past four years I can almost say with certainty that It’s probably been one of the most impactful tools that we’ve introduced into the ecosystem, where we are able to really drive customer engagement with an impact not only on the business side, but equally as a value driver.
And, and really what we’ve seen is consistent growth in customer engagement numbers. We’ve seen growth in number of days customers are spending on our network. And this obviously then lead to adoption of additional Vodacom products and services, leveraging that behavioral goals to that allows us not only to drive awareness on a product, but it allows us to intentionally engage customers by pushing value based offers.
So I think loyalty is really one of it is the single channel where Vodacom customers get maximum value for our core products and services, because that was the makeup of the program to say, how do we deliberately and bullishly pass value to our customers by virtue of them being loyal. So, so that has been really the impact that we’ve seen, you know, increase in custom engagements more and more adoption of our services.
But then the trajectory has also led us to where we are today. We due to the success that we’ve seen in Africa, we had to scale across all group markets because the business is yielding value beyond just, you know, us being a cost center. And then we have really managed to transition into a more inclusive business model that adds value to business in so many ways.
Amanda: I think that’s the remarkable thing here that I’m very excited about how we’re going to take this discussion now in terms of the success, the base success of your South Africa program and the ability now to scale it across the African continent.
So, from your point of view, you’re now in a group role. Congratulations. Cause I know it’s incredibly senior role in an incredibly big, successful South African business. So in your group role, like strategically, why has Vodacom done this? Why have they put you in this role? What is the, what is the strategy to behind this?
Mateboho: Well, look, I mean, I think you know, given the South African success that we’ve seen, we’ve already spoken about the business benefits as well as the customer benefits that we’ve seen and how we’ve been able to leverage loyalty to integrate or rather to drive deep integration between CVM and big data.
So, so that has probably been a biggest success to say, how do we consolidate value for our customers in leveraging our intelligence? to drive personalized experiences. So in, in the group role, I really think, I mean, the, the, the ambition for us is then to deliver a universal market and network of no stake loyalty program that will drive efficiencies for our IB markets and the bigger markets whilst really driving faster time to market.
So I think from a strategy point of view, it seeks to deliver on the ambition of scaling the last proposition by leveraging the success in essay, but the role is really there to drive, you know, strategic differentiation for the Vodacom brand across the group. That’s enabling Vodacom to compete beyond price.
I mean, I’m sure you would appreciate the complexity of you know, competition across telco across Africa and I guess across the globe that just competing on price alone isn’t it? It’s not good enough. You know, it’s a thing of yesterday. The customer is evolving, their needs are evolving the choices and the options that they have evolved. I mean, going to the days where customers used to buy like when you knew for sure that a customer will make that voice call. Today we are defending voice. And customers have access to really have, you know, voice over Wi Fi. And that is really bringing, you know, a lot of risk in terms of, you know, protecting the core. So, so, so, yeah, I think in a nutshell, our strategy is really to scale beyond Africa and standardize the program and drive differentiation across all our markets.
Amanda: And you mentioned something so critical there around how the customer is evolving, like endlessly evolving, like obviously, and thank goodness. And I think every industry faces that. So even though your role is a group role across the African continent, individuals who may not know Africa as well as us. So a lot of the listeners from Let’s Talk Loyalty may not understand that actually that means a vastly different set of countries within the African continent. Each country is so different. So which markets are you responsible for in this strategy? And, you know, we, we know that someone from Kenya, a consumer from Kenya may have vastly different requirements than someone from Tanzania for argument’s sake.
Mateboho: Absolutely. And thanks for that question because I think for me, even just if you zoom into the African continent, I think South Africa, we probably you know, they’re the most highly indexed country when it comes to loyalty and the number of programs that a customer is using. I mean, we have about, I think, 9.4 programs that one person is engaging in South Africa. For other markets, and please correct me. I hope 9.4 programs is the right number because I’m speaking to the owner of that research. So, so in other African markets, though, loyalty is highly under indexed.
So just to take you through, you know, to answer a question around which markets are we are we running outside of South Africa, of course, we have Tanzania, the DRC, we have Mozambique and Lesotho, and then to include our other partner markets, we have Safaricom Ethiopia, Safaricom, PLC, and Nairobi. As well as for a Vodacom Egypt. So, so that’s really the depth of the coverage that we have. And as you’ve indicated, the dynamics are very different. Whilst in South Africa, we have a highly banked, you know, population with, I would say relatively high access to a smartphone. In the DRC, for instance, you have probably over 90%, if not 99 percent of the customers engaging on USSD.
And similar to set up, it’s not because, you know, it’s not from the lack of a smartphone access. It’s just the behavior that has been deeply entrenched in the customer in that they prefer, you know, us as a channel over the app. So designing propositions for such vast differences requires, you know, the depth and the breadth of understanding for that specific local market and for their behaviors.
The fact that in Kenya, Mobile Money, you know, M-PESA is a bank. In South Africa there’s very low penetration on Mobile Money services, I would say largely in comparison to other countries. So those are really just the, the dynamics between the differences between the markets that we are serving. Although we’re all in Africa, but vastly different.
Amanda: Exactly. I mean, this goes back forever. I, many years ago, like 20 plus years ago, I was the area marketing manager for British Airways on the international airline side for Africa, Middle East, India. And I remember the African discussions were the most fascinating because we literally just had 20 countries within the continent and every single one was different.
So, to hear you 20 plus 30 years later, say exactly the same thing. It’s magical. And it’s a cultural, it’s a cultural dream. It’s wonderful. It’s just, but it’s complex for running marketing activities. So, but timing wise you’ve just launched Tanzania in July, congratulations.
Mateboho: Yes, yes, yes. My goodness. It’s been a task and a half. Thank you so much. This really great learnings that we’ve equally learned, you know, as a group and again, also around, how do you navigate the different markets? Because whilst, you know, preparing for Tanzania in parallel, you have to then prepare for LSU to markets.
And whilst Tanzania is hosting on premises due to regulatory reasons, you have LSU to hosting on cloud, and then you have DRC also on a completely different instance. So it has been absolutely a phenomenal journey in terms of just learnings and you know how distinctly different one market is from the other, given that we were also coming with the South African context as the baseline for our evolution beyond SA.
Amanda: Yeah, fabulous. Well, I’m really, really pleased for you. It’s great to see the expansion actually, you know, as we’re speaking, like rolling out, it’s fantastic. So, but I mean, you’ve mentioned it before when you started to introduce Vodacom as an organization, that it’s not just about rewards. It’s not just about airtime and data. It’s so much more. There’s, there’s, you know, you’re in the fintech markets. There’s so much more to this. So talk to us a little bit about that. Cause I think as the average consumer, we forget that we, we assume that, okay, I use Vodacom because I need airtime or data. So talk us through that and how it, pulls together with rewards.
Mateboho: Absolutely. And thanks for that, Miss Amanda, because I think that’s absolutely spot on. So whilst our core is really around, you know, connecting people through our network services. However our model cuts across, you know, three lines of business. We have our consumer business model, which really serves the normal consumer with services, mobile services, largely and fixed.
And then we have our enterprise model that obviously is more into our business solutions and then more B2B. And then the last league of our model is that of a FinTech. So essentially, if you really say, outside of South Africa, I mean, we do have Vodapay in South Africa, but across the rest of the African markets, we have M-PESA, which is essentially a Mobile Money solution.
So for those probably who are not close to M-PESA, I would say really in short, M-PESA is Africa’s most successful Mobile Money services. And it’s the region’s largest FinTech platform. It is the preferred way, you know, for customers across the continent. Both for the banked and unbanked really due to its safety and unmatched convenience across the continent.
People use it as a form of either sending money or withdrawing money or paying for their utilities. So it is part of you know, our customers lifestyle. It also provides even services, you know, beyond just Mobile Money itself to include your insurance and for us in a space, it will be more in the form of, you know, device financing or, overdraft for your SMEs. So there’s really, it’s a, it’s a diverse mix of business solutions that enables not only an end consumer, but also our enterprise clients as well.
And of course, you know, if you just look around how many customers are using M-PESA, you know, across the continent, we have over 51 million customers who are making over 300,000 – 314 billion US dollars in transaction per year through M-PESA, just ,M-PESA. So it is really a hub that is facilitating all inflows and outflows. And then with that, you can imagine the depth off data, actionable data insights that you can get out of that. So I really think that’s essentially what the group has to offer.
And then coming back to your question around how does all of this then connect, you know, to loyalty. So with the evolution from what we’ve done in South Africa, we have then X, you know, enhanced our proposition to move away from just the consumer model. But then we now saying how do we enable our fintech proposition?
Because within an M-PESA ecosystem, not only do you have the consumer, you know who generally does the normal transactional banking, if I may call it, but you also have the merchants in that ecosystem that facilitating acceptance of M-PESA that is a, and then equally you have what we call agents who are activating, you know, access and movement of cash on the ground. I mean, if you think of random rural areas, you will always have an agent that is able to either do a cash in or a cash out. So our loyalty platform will then also be evolving to facilitate, you know, bespoke proposition for our merchant network as well as our agents. And then if you move away from the fintech space, then we will obviously be expanding to include our enterprise model, where we’re going to be offering our B2B proposition, B2B to C and B2B to E. So it’s a full suite of loyalty offering that cuts across all lines of business.
And then we’ve taken it a step back. I guess I’m a sucker for pain. We even said once we have this platform and it’s running nothing prevents us to really be the first, probably the first telco in Africa, almost for certain that who will render loyalty as a service.
So we, we’re going beyond just being loyalty player for Vodacom itself, but then we’re going to tap into an opportunity to unlock loyalty proposition across the African continent, since I did say earlier on that it’s highly under indexed. So, so it’s really, you know, it goes, It goes beyond just running a loyalty program for the business, but saying, how do we enable you know, loyalty offering by sharing our knowledge and expertise and render it as a service through our enterprise model to activate loyalty beyond just South Africa is, you know, a single country that is known for, for being highly advanced when it comes to our loyalty proposition. So it’s really a very fascinating model. And I’m looking forward to it, but yeah, lots of complexity.
Amanda: I’ve been listening in silence to your last piece, particularly around M-PESA, because I obviously know M-PESA, I’ve traveled around Africa and always been highly impressed, but to actually hear those words come out of your mouth, 51 million customers and 340 billion dollars per annum in transactions, that is absolutely remarkable.
I think there’s a lot of people listening to Let’s Talk Loyalty around the world who are thinking, wow. We don’t work for an organization that generates that kind of turnover or transactions. It’s incredibly impactful. So, and I love that, you know, the actionable insights that come from that is just another layer of this not complexity, another layer of this ecosystem that Vodacom as a group has created.
Mateboho: Exactly. And I think hence the whole concept of Vodapax as a service, right? I mean, it’s It can really scale. And I think in a nutshell, that’s really how we have evolved what they’ve done in South Africa. And when you talk about scaling, you know, across the group, I really think it’s a fascinating ambition. And we are eagerly looking forward to seeing it through. It’s not going to be over yet, probably yes. But yeah, it’s really quite an exciting opportunity ahead.
Amanda: Wonderful. So let’s just, let’s take a moment to reflect. I think for the listeners of Let’s Talk Loyalty, it’s always really great to hear some of the sort of pain points and learning points that we the operators such as yourself, you know, has gone through. So what would you say are the biggest learnings you can take out of this? You’ve been in the hot seat for many years.
Mateboho: Look, I mean, I would say very different dynamics though, if I were to compare it with South Africa, I mean, when I came in, I had my own concept of introducing this whole behavioral goals and everybody felt like, Hey, we not like you know, a health provider like Discovery.
You don’t have behaviors. I’m going to send people to the gym, you know, and we had to transition the mindset and say, Hey, the virtue of customers spending 10 days with you on the network as opposed to 20 days. It’s because they’re somewhere. So that’s the behavior of the change. So that was the data. I mean, it’s back then, but I think now we’ve really come to a state of maturity where the organization is well socialized to, you know the value that loyalty brings and how it can drive customer behavior. I’m finding now this time, I mean, outside of, you know, the normal stuff that we all know that you need to lobby in the right stakeholders.
The biggest learning I would say is navigating cultural complexities brought by a diverse and virtual setup that I’m working in. I mean, just to, to, to give a sense, I mean, I always say that it’s probably, yeah, except Qantas who have over 600 headcounts. I’ve had that in Dubai where we had to connect. I haven’t really had, you know, head of teams that says we have loads of compliments, you know, stuff compliment.
I mean, for us in South Africa, there’s just three people, including myself, and the rest, it’s probably over 200 people we’re delivering through our markets, you know, across the continent. So really, you know, navigating and embracing, you know, the cultural differences across all of these markets, that is probably the biggest challenge because normally do you have to be mindful of small things you overlook around time zones. But also there’s religion, you know, mindfulness around that.
And, and there’s things like, for instance. Now, I think with this upcoming EID you, you know, you’re not going to have your delivery team for the week and you have to respect that and you have to find ways to navigate the ecosystem. So, so I would say, yeah, that has been probably the most biggest learnings, but equally setting up a new portfolio in an environment where the operating model is evolving on the go. So this whole new group portfolio, There’s no governance around it. We are building governance as we go. So that has probably been the biggest learnings because we learn as we go, we unlearn and we relearn and then suddenly there’s governance in place. So it’s been quite fascinating, I must say.
Amanda: And I actually love what you’ve just said there that, you know, you could have responded with some technical difficulties and so on, but actually, the heart and soul of it, cultural complexity, you know, you can’t just roll out one approach. You can’t just roll out one solution or one way of doing it because you are dealing across a multi, multicultural continent. So obviously your approach, your leadership style, your team, your solutions have to be mindful of that.
So, so while I mentioned technical let’s actually go to the, to really interesting question that you’ve chatted to me a few times about actually in terms of whether to outsource your technical solution. And now I’m talking about the actual tech staff, whether you build it in house or outsource. And I know you’ve made the decision to build it in house, and I’m sure that was a very, very complex and robust decision to make. Talk us through that and the pros and cons of your decision.
Mateboho: Wow. Yeah, that’s that’s probably I guess it was the most anticipated question in all of this, given the RFP that we ran last year, June.
So look, I mean, I think just from the onset, we had a very ambitious this you know, vision of saying we are going to scale across the group. We’re going to take that which we did in South Africa and scale it. Then what we thought was that this is an open API. We can productize it and we’re good to go.
And then once we’ve done all of these promises and we socialize group CEO, then we learn, of course, that what we built in South Africa was, you know, micro services design best both exclusively for the South African market, and now we have already socialized the whole notion of saying, Hey, we’re going to launch a software solution that is going to contribute to what’s the Vodacom’s ambition of transitioning from a telco to a technology company.
And then we had to make a call, right? So we underwent that entire RFP process, but because there is this ambition of transitioning from telco to technology, we had to really put our foot into it and say, Hey, we have options. We can take an off the shelf solution, but does that make us a technology company? Are we able to really, you know, render software as a solution, which is the concept I spoke about of, you know, rendering loyalty as a service and hence forth, then the decision had to really, it was a difficult decision to be honest, where we decided that we are going to build it in house, but I think timing was just so perfect because the merge or rather Vodacom, you know, stake in Vodafone Egypt, that transaction just got finalized.
So we now knew that, you know, across the group, we have Vodafone Egypt, which really comes with a lot of experiences in terms of building Software solutions and systems in house. So they’ve done it. Their CVM is built in house. They are, you know, their Kafka, almost literally everything that we do. Their call centers, everything is run in house at Vodafone Egypt. So having them on board was really quite it brought about some optimism approach to it to say, we can do it.
And I mean, you know, talking to the pros of doing it, obviously you, you get to really, really retain IP, you know, in house, like that’s really quite an empowering I think it’s an empowering thing to have, knowing that everybody across the group, well, loyalty leads, they are aware of the platform, they are contributing towards the platforms, and hence have been quite deliberate about co creating and, you know, authentically collaborating, because that’s what we’ve done.
We’ve taken all the tickets across the markets as well as the commercial leads, put them in one room and collectively we put together the requirements and said, this is what we want. So that really gives you that asset ownership. It gives you the knowledge base. You have somewhat to a larger extent, I think you do have cost deficiencies because if I look at how much you would pay for an after the shelves off the shelf solution without that knowledge base. I’m not even spending anywhere near that. The only thing obviously that hits me is the speed. I have to pace myself because it’s a whole ecosystem, an operating model that never existed. And now we bringing it to life.
And of course other benefits is really around, you know, standardization and scalability at a group level. You do want to create a hub that standardizes experiences across the group, and I’m sure you’ve heard me talk about market and network agnostic. So essentially, you know, the ultimate I call it the ultimate ambition is for us to democratize loyalty proposition across the market. So in South Africa, we have VodaBucks.
When I go to Nairobi, I should be able to use my VodaBucks. I end in South Africa in Nairobi. That’s really the whole notion of market agnostic and having that standardized experience. I think it will be absolutely powerful and one of the other things is that we really building once to reuse multiple times. We’ve seen it in brands like Discovery Vitality, where the Discovery model has been replicated across the globe. It was really at the back of that repeatability of your software where you build it once. It’s an open API with customization. So let’s say 80 percent is standard, but 20 percent you allow markets, local market orchestration.
So that I think is absolutely empowering to have you know, within the group where you can have that highest level of nimbleness to just tweak your proposition because everything is all in-house. And, and you can influence, you know, your prioritization in line with your strategy. I think one of the biggest challenges that we have with our legacy, you know, platforms, which is what we had previously at Vodacom, is that, you know, commercial people have very little influence on that technology road map. Technology teams can build whatever they want to build, when they want to build it, whether it aligns to a strategic commercial. You know, it’s not just strategic ambitions or it’s something else.
But then again, all of those benefits, you know, they come with their disadvantages. Whilst you’ll be very astute in terms of your architectural design, you know from the program in line with your commercial strategy. There are challenges in that. Hey, this is a new thing. We’ve never done it. So initial delays for go live. You will feel it because you are building from scratch. To set up that operating model, I think building a loyalty probe platform. It’s one of the most complex and most expensive exercise. So there’s a lot of unknowns, you know, and uncertainties along the way. And then it will be a trial and error model.
Because we don’t need the baseline to compare against. You do though have great opportunity to explore. But you have to have appetite that you just not going to do it in three months. And of course the complicity comes in when you have to then say, Hey, I have this software solution, you think we can just plug it into local market. Then we’ve learned that, Hey, it’s not that easy. It can take you an average of eight to 10 months. To take an already built software, you know, to deeply integrate it into your local market based on the local systems that they have.
So I would say that has been probably, yeah, what I’ve been doing for the past 18 months in this role just fascinated about the different, you know, challenges that we are experiencing, but equally the learnings that comes with it and the empowerment that comes with it. Because now we know everything that we know. And we know exactly what must happen in order for us to yield the results we want to see.
Amanda: And I think they, you know, the big statement you made is this transition from a telco to a technology company and therefore doing it yourself is putting skin in the game. So your response makes complete sense, but I’m sure it hasn’t been a simple process, but for sharing that. I think it’s going to be very useful. Cause I’m sure there’s a lot of listeners.
Mateboho: I think I’m laughing because you just nailed it. I mean, within the ecosystem, we are probably the first product. So we are a prototype for the broader group to say, Hey, we in it, we’ve started it and we taking all, yeah, all the beating out of it. Like it’s, it’s quite intense, but as you said there’s so much learnings that you’ve done. I’m going to depart to our fellow colleagues and we can really get better from here.
Amanda: Well, we could talk forever, but we’ve run out of time. So, before I close off with all these fantastic insights, is there anything else you’d like to leave the listeners with for Let’s Talk Loyalty?
Mateboho: Look I think for me, it’s really the notion around, look, while building in house comes with its own challenges, the benefits you know, would, would last for quite a while and it will, it will definitely impact your ecosystem. However, I think it would be a loss if I, I, I end the call without really tapping into my, my normal positioning way. I call out on all our loyalty, expert to say, Hey, well, traditionally, loyalty has been seen as, you know, a points and rules and a cost center.
I think we, we, we can pet, you know, type ourselves in the back and say, Hey, our evolution has brought about the transition that evolved more, you know, towards loyalty, being a tool that amplifies value for customers while driving business incrementality. So hence, I call it a base management tool. I really think, you know, the trajectory that we’ve seen across the various industry where loyalty, it’s a lead driver of not, you know, only incrementality for business, but equally consolidates customer value from the various brands. I think we have really made an impact as an industry. So thank you so much for having me today.
Amanda: A wonderful conclusion, amplifying value for customers. Pulling in incrementality for the enterprise, consolidating customer value.
Thank you, Mateboho. As I said, we could have chatted forever. I’ll put in the show notes, the other Vodacom Let’s Talk Loyalty show, which is show number 63 from November, obviously attached to your LinkedIn profile as well. The other interviewers with George Mendez, but your LinkedIn profile will be there in the show notes, because I’m sure a lot of people would love to reach out and chat to you further. So thank you so much for a wonderful discussion. I could have listened all day, so I’ve really appreciated it.
Mateboho: Thanks, Ms. Amanda, for having me. And I really appreciate Let’s Talk Loyalty for allowing us an opportunity to share insights.
Paula: This show is brought to you by the Australian Loyalty Association, the leading organization for loyalty networking and education in the Asia Pacific region. Their Asia Pacific loyalty conference will take place on the 7th and 8th of August this year at the Gold Coast, Australia with over 350 guests in attendance, including yours truly from Let’s Talk Loyalty. I can’t wait to meet so many loyalty experts from the Asia Pacific region in person. Register now to hear global experts discuss current trends in loyalty marketing. There will be fantastic networking opportunities, hosted drinks and dinners, appointment bookings, competitions, and great prizes to be won.
Visit AustralianLoyaltyAssociation.com to find out more.
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