Paula Thomas (5s):
Welcome to “Let’s Talk Loyalty”, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals.
I’m your host, Paula Thomas and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
This episode is brought to you by Collinson, worldwide leaders in loyalty, creating and orchestrating loyalty initiatives and programs for some of the world’s biggest brands in travel retail and financial services.
Doing it globally for over 30 years. w
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Paula Thomas (51s):
Welcome to episode 181 of Let’s Talk Loyalty and I can’t believe that the first month of 2022 is already almost over.
Today’s show feels like the beginning of a return to normality with the return of the loyalty industry awards scheduled to take place in person again, this summer in June, 2022,.
Today’s interview is a chance to hear from Annich McIntosh, the creator of the newly renamed “International Loyalty Awards”, and Annich is going to tell us all about why you should enter this prestigious event to showcase all of your amazing work over the last two years.
Paula Thomas (1m 42s):
So Annich, welcome back to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Annich McIntosh (1m 46s):
Nice to see you.
Paula Thomas (1m 46s):
Nice to see you too. Yes, exactly. Where are you joining us from today?
Annich McIntosh (1m 53s):
Well, today I’m in France because of Brexit. I felt it was important that we should have a European office as well as our UK office. So I split my time between the two now.
Paula Thomas (2m 7s):
Oh my goodness. Truly getting international and
Annich McIntosh (2m 9s):
Asia. Absolutely. Well, I mean, we weren’t, we Paula, I mean, we were all rushing all over the world and it’s, it’s different for everybody now, but hopefully, hopefully we’re at the start of doing it all over again, which would be great.
Paula Thomas (2m 29s):
Certainly feels like at an age. So I’m super excited to talk to you today. And we’re here to talk about the International Loyalty Awards, which is why I’m amused, that you’re not in the UK where you normally are. And, but before we get into talking about your fabulous event happening this year, tell us, first of all, you know, my opening question, what is your favorite loyalty program?
Annich McIntosh (2m 53s):
You’re asking me this several months too early, because this year more than ever before we, as you know, we’ve been running the wards, they used to be called the law to magazine awards. Now the international law to your words, to reflect the fact that we are truly global. And I always, every year, I can’t wait to see what entries are going to come in. And every year I’m surprised, but this year, I think more than ever before, because there’s been such a major change in the way people are considering what, what, what customer loyalty is not simply what it is, but what it should be doing for the customer and what the customer demands, the customer’s changed without.
Annich McIntosh (3m 43s):
So, because of all those things, please, please come in June to international law awards, billing escape this year on the river. So we’ll be sipping up cocktails, looking out over the river Tams and the beautiful skyline and LAN is the time to discuss your failures. And what is my favorite program?
Paula Thomas (4m 8s):
I think we might need to do another podcast when I come to London. If that sounds like a plan,
Annich McIntosh (4m 13s):
Sounds like a brilliant title.
Paula Thomas (4m 16s):
Okay. So we’ll let you off the hook on picking a program. I think the most exciting thing about your awards this year, a niche is the fact that it’s going to cover two full years of loyalty initiatives. So it’s kind of double the workload. So probably a bit daunting for all of the judges behind the scenes. But as you said, the whole loyalty industry has changed. I’ve often said actually on this show, but I feel like there’s a whole new level of respect for loyalty professionals. And we all know when there’s fewer customers around that, it feels like senior management just pay much more attention. So, so how does it feel that you’re going to be looking at initiatives over all of 20 and all of 2021 now
Annich McIntosh (5m 1s):
Very exciting actually, because writing for loyalty magazine, what I know is the amount of work that’s been going on behind the scenes from, at the start of the pandemic, the messages I was hearing was that people were completely reevaluating their program. They were fixing their systems. They, they were addressing the fact that privacy was becoming important. People were going offline in lots of different ways. From WhatsApp, we chat through to hiding their domains. There were lots of things we already knew about how the customer was changing, but since then, and you know, you and I both know this.
Annich McIntosh (5m 48s):
Cause as well as being loyal to professionals, we are customers. Yes, we have changed. We were not the same customers that went into the COVID pandemic over two years ago. We’re different. We, we shop differently. We don’t think twice about going online to buy something and getting it delivered the next day. We no longer have that desire to spend our Saturday afternoons in the high street. You know, we w why would, why would anyone do that? Interestingly, we’re not travelling. So, so hotels have, and airlines have had to completely rethink their loyalty programs.
Annich McIntosh (6m 30s):
Everyone has had to do it. And this isn’t, this isn’t on this no longer about structural change that is taking place. Although that did take place in the first year, it’s about a complete reevaluation of who the customer was. And that, that is what I’m expecting to see. I know that this is going to happen. It’s a change from transactional loyalty through to emotional loyalty that I was writing about for the last or awards two years ago, but now has actually taken place and, and firms saying, I mean, Andy Kaleena, Oracle said to me, that looking at what a customer has bought is way too late.
Annich McIntosh (7m 20s):
You it’s even too late. If you’re looking up what they’re browsing for, you’ve got to anticipate what they’re going to buy and track them from then. And because of the Google cookie law, which is going to be coming in and all the other privacy things, the only way you can track your customers is with permission. And how do you get permission? You engage with the customer through a lot of initiative, and I’m saying initiative rather than program because old fashioned loyalty programs are going to have to change because we’ve changed.
Annich McIntosh (8m 1s):
I mean, how many people have actually earned many air miles, for example, by flying in the last 10 years. So they’re not doing that business. Travel has taken a big hit and probably will never survive. So to quote another person, Chris Hartley of GHA the hotel dependent hotel group, he was saying to me that he has completely redesigned his loyalty programme because there are no more business travellers. And he doesn’t expect the business traveller to come back in any great numbers because companies have changed the way that they’re running their businesses.
Annich McIntosh (8m 45s):
So his loyalty program now addresses the leisure traveller and is likely to do so for the foreseeable future. Now that’s a massive change in, it used to be all about the top 5% of customers. And it really isn’t anymore. It’s about the long tail Chuck carrot of currency. Lance is always talking about the long tail and you can see his points. It’s a different world. And I, I don’t really, I mean, I never know what interests are going to come in. I’m always fascinated to see what those entries are going to be, but yeah, more than ever.
Annich McIntosh (9m 27s):
It’s, it’s, it’s a greenfield site for loyalty. Totally.
Paula Thomas (9m 31s):
I agree. And there’s, a couple of things I’ll pick on and watch, you said an H thank you for all of that. The first thing actually to pick up on is emotional loyalty, because it’s such a common term. Now, I would say in the work that I do, but I fully credit you personally for bringing my attention to it. So at the loyalty surgery in 2019, you run a brilliant event. You know, we were all there, great numbers learnt a loss, and you were talking back then about emotional loyalty. And I hadn’t seen the shift and I, wasn’t probably in a strategy role at the time, but you’re absolutely right. Everybody’s wondering how do I create emotional loyalty?
Paula Thomas (10m 14s):
So no doubt when the judges start to look at the entries now for the International Loyalty Awards, we’ll all be looking for, how are these brands creating those incredible changes in their initiatives and in their programs. So definitely want to acknowledge you and your expertise and insight on that particular one. And yeah, no, definitely true. I remember the moment in each, you know, whether there’s sometimes like a light bulb goes off and they go, oh yeah, totally got that. So there you go. So you did that for me. And, and then the other point that I love as well is I know one of your big changes this year is about loyalty initiatives.
Paula Thomas (10m 54s):
And it’s something that I’ve to suppose I’ve taken a very broad view with this show. Like I didn’t call the podcast, let’s talk about loyalty programs. Like I’m not interested in, you know, again, limiting our conversations to points, prizes games, or whatever else the traditional mechanics might be. But anything that makes me feel loyal is actually something that I want to talk about. So I did a show, for example, talking about the power of podcasting to create a feeling of loyalty because the human voice creates that experience. So I love that. For example, your broadening as well to loyalty initiatives for the awards this year.
Annich McIntosh (11m 33s):
Well, it’s not really just this year to be honest, Paula 2019. I mean, I’ve been, I’ve been conscious for probably over the whole 10 years that we’ve been running the awards that it’s a moving feast, customer loyalty, and, and that customers see things in lots of different ways. One example of this is incentives and coupons, you know? Yeah. We all get them in the supermarket. If you spend 40 euros in the next week, we’ll give you two pounds to two euros, 50 off rightly, and you look at this and think this is money.
Annich McIntosh (12m 14s):
This is, this is, this is actually cash that you’re handing me as long as I do my next shot with you. Now that’s not loyalty. That’s an incentive, it’s a bribe, but it is used within the context of that communication you have with the customer because hopefully you have already engaged with a customer and you’ve asked them to belong to your loyalty programs. And now, because they’re belonging to your loyalty programs, you are now incentivizing them within that relationship begins to come together. So, so I think it’s wrong for, you know, the high minded in loyalty to say, oh, you know, w w we don’t want anything to do with short-term law to initiatives or coupons or, or bribes or anything like that.
Annich McIntosh (13m 6s):
We’re not interested. Wow. You’re missing a trick here because customers love them. And, you know, you, you might poopoo free, you know, cheap casseroles or glasses, but if that’s bringing the customers in, then that gives you the opportunity to engage with them better. I mean, you could say the same in airlines. It’s, it’s like airline lounges. Now an airline lounge could be seen to be a bribe. It works, it’s a bride that works. I don’t knock it. You know, I th and I think it’s great the way some of the best winners from two years ago had this ability to use unusual things like maybe games or, or just something funny just to engage with the customer.
Annich McIntosh (13m 60s):
And it’s all about that customer engagement, tone, how to do that.
Paula Thomas (14m 4s):
Yeah. You’re absolutely right. Yeah. More creativity.
Annich McIntosh (14m 8s):
Yeah. Yes. I’m not a purist. I’m not. And I think anyone who is, is going to get left behind erase
Paula Thomas (14m 15s):
You’re absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. And I love the fact that you mentioned a niche that it is 10 years. So obviously a started by you through your loyalty magazine, and it wasn’t branded the loyalty magazine awards initially for most of the 10 years, or it was okay. So we had, I suppose, nine years of the Loyalty Magazine awards, and now obviously your rebrand to the International Loyalty Award. So I guess you already had a lot of international interest, but I think this, I suppose, just cements that concept, that anyone, whether they’re in, you know, you know, the most parts of the world, it doesn’t matter where you are. You know, this is the awards where you can get, I suppose, education information, inspiration, and recognition for all of the incredible initiatives.
Annich McIntosh (15m 2s):
That’s right. Well, well, it was when we started looking at the data this year, when, when we said we, we took the decision that the time was right, and we should run the awards this year in 2020, they were virtual, which was great, but we all missed getting together and celebrating in one place. And I’m so looking forward to doing that in June, but we looked at the data and we looked at where the entries had come from, and we looked at where the audience had come from. And I think on your last podcast, you were speaking to Eileen McGuinness.
Annich McIntosh (15m 44s):
Now it’s Eileen and Marion who are helping with strategy and are, you know, taking over some of the running of the International Loyalty Awards. And they said, Annich, you’re global, you’re international. And so why not make me sort of state the fact that you’re international with the change of the name, and it was a no brainer really. And, you know, we’re simply reflecting what we were already, which is international.
Paula Thomas (16m 20s):
So definitely I think the new name is very inclusive and east, you know, coming from a small place like Ireland, you’re right. I know Eileen and Marin very well and very excited about their awards. And there’s so much as well happening in April, but the international awards, like I always feel like, you know, the is, can get very, let’s say US centric or, you know, we can become very inward focused sometimes in our home markets and the same can happen here where I live now in Dubai. So I love the fact that it is being positioned internationally. And again, as a former judge for your awards, that was actually what was the most appealing part to me was to, to see the global thinking.
Paula Thomas (17m 0s):
And I remember for example, entries coming in from places like Turkey and places like India. And I hadn’t realized the extraordinary expertise that was coming in from those parts of the world, because I just wasn’t aware and, you know, didn’t get to do nearly enough reading of the magazine as I wanted to. So yeah, so super exciting times to have that, that breadth and that inclusivity coming through this year, even more
Annich McIntosh (17m 24s):
That’s right. And, and the ideas from, from other countries, and also the reasoning behind the idea I’m new, you mentioned Turkey, Texel, that’s extraordinary work every year. You know, how, how can we innovate year after year after year? And, and again, you mentioned India, we have interests from Australia. We have from South Africa. I mean, I could go on the middle east all over the world. And each one brings a new elements to the conversation around loyalty. And it’s absolutely fascinating to see how it’s developing and developing slightly different in every market.
Annich McIntosh (18m 10s):
I mean, of course, us, it’s a very different market. I mean, you’d expect it to be similar to Europe, but it really isn’t. And I’ve just made a big mistake there because I said Europe and Europe is going in a slightly different direction. And I find that absolutely fascinating. Absolutely.
Paula Thomas (18m 31s):
Absolutely. And you know, just the most important thing I think today in niche is to, yes, first of all, reassure everyone that they’re more than welcome actively, obviously encouraged to put their entries through and put the other, I think really important point is that there’s only a couple of weeks left between when this show was going out and when actually the entries close. So February 14th is your deadline for entries. So maybe just talk through exactly, maybe a niche, what is involved for people who are listening and thinking we did incredible work in 2020 or in 2021, or hopefully in both. So what should they be thinking about in terms of entering this year’s awards?
Annich McIntosh (19m 12s):
Okay. The most important thing is go to www.internationalloyaltyawards.com and download the call entries booklet, because that contains everything you need to know and read it carefully. And then when you, when it comes to writing the entry, what I always recommend is start with your title, then write the short paragraph summary, then do your, your short version of your entry.
Annich McIntosh (19m 52s):
And then when you’ve done all of those things, writing the full entry will be a doddle because you’ll have already worked out what it is you want to say, then the entry. So you’re putting the most important things fast. The judges have a lot of work to do as you know, Paula. And first of all, most of them will read the paragraph that comes at the top, which is the, you know, the quick summary, if they’re interested, they’ll then read that the 200-word summary, then, then, then they’ll go. Yeah. But you know, it has to be in that order and you don’t want to lose something buried in the main entry that the judges maybe won’t notice.
Annich McIntosh (20m 38s):
So do it in that order, let us know that you’re entering and what categories you’re entering because it was good to do that. Where that to support you tell nice to answer your questions and, and then get on and do it. And we can’t win if you don’t enter. And there is a huge amount of kudos with winning an international loyalty award, a huge oh,
Paula Thomas (21m 7s):
Career enhancing for sure whether it’s now or in another 10 years time. Dare I say us, the fact that you’ve been recognized, you know, on the global stage is something that will always be something that you can be super proud of. Obviously, the event itself is a whole other social location. What it is about careers. I think in terms of putting you on the global loyalty industry map,
Annich McIntosh (21m 30s):
Both careers and about brands. And I remember feeling super proud saying spree and on every checkout counter, there was the winner of the Loyalty Magazine awards number, what year it was now. But, you know, because they weren’t that proud, they put it on a pill and that’s, that’s what it means for a brand to win is, is a big deal.
Paula Thomas (21m 60s):
It is. Yeah. And I like what you said as well, Annich, about letting you know that they’re entering because you obviously don’t actually judge anymore. You have your whole panel lined up and they’re extraordinary experts in their fields. But I think what you’re there to do, if I’m right, is you’re there to make sure that the people entering get the best possible advice so that they can put it in a way that the judges can easily, first of all, shortlist and secondly, go, yes, that is a winning piece of work and needs to be articulated in a way that the judges get it.
Annich McIntosh (22m 32s):
That’s such a good point, Paula and you’re absolutely right. In fact, I’ve never judged. I sit on the judging panel. I do give my opinion. Although I have to say the judges rarely take any notes, but I am that to pass too, because I’ve read every entry and I understand the entries, I understand where the people are coming from, and yes, we are so there to help. We want to get the best out of every entry. So, so, so yes, Annie and I, I’m very aware that anybody doing this who doesn’t have English as a language is, might struggle a bit.
Annich McIntosh (23m 15s):
And yes, we give as much help as we possibly can to the people writing. Okay. Is it time now to say 30, under 40 and very important so I was literally about to say, I’m a particular fan of your 30 under 40 cash degree, because it gives me an opportunity to, to think back on all of the extraordinary people that I’ve met, that I’ve been aware that what they’re doing. And sometimes I think, you know, maybe at earlier stages in our careers, we might not even think about putting ourselves forward. So I’ve certainly put a lot of effort into putting people to you for that particular one.
Annich McIntosh (23m 56s):
And so again, I’ll be obviously doing that again this year, and you just mentioned as well, then what was the second one you mentioned there in each House or company of the year. And that also comes from, people’s just sending ideas to you. Does this? I didn’t realize that. Okay. Okay. Just explain the 30, under 40. Yes. You nominate yourself or you can nominate a colleague or somebody you’ve come across. We don’t say where the nominations come from. Oh yeah. And it’s at the very start. We thought we were going to run the, this particular category with a winner, but it was obvious right from the start that that was impossible because the caliber of the nominations were so high that we couldn’t choose a winner.
Annich McIntosh (24m 44s):
So now we just have a top 30 under 40 and we upload them all. Yes we do. And it’s, you know, we call them the Lottie royalty and they really are watching the careers of these people as you see them running enterprises. Now the first ones that, that came along, they’re not running enterprises already. They’re amazing. And we’ve got such talent in the loyalty business. It makes me quite proud actually.
Paula Thomas (25m 17s):
Oh, for sure. Absolutely. And the part I always liked about that again, just the 30 under 41 is I think it’s an opportunity for maybe managers of a loyalty team to really, you know, showcase, you know, more necessarily perhaps than one, like one or more people that are doing exceptional work. And again, they might not even make the shortlist dare. I say what the fact that their manager says, I’m putting you forward for this a bit, just to recognize your work. It’s an extraordinary piece of recognition. And I think at times like this, to your point earlier in age, all of our values have changed. And we want our employees also to feel loyal to the business, to the manager.
Paula Thomas (25m 59s):
And what better way than to say, you’ve done some extraordinary work. And I want to mention, you know, in this potential global and award-winning opportunities, so lots of different ways that can be used.
Annich McIntosh (26m 9s):
Totally. Yeah, totally. And well put because yeah, it’s okay. It’s like, we’ve got the new category of employee loyalty in, in the awards, because again, in the last two years has shown up those people who, who have done exceptional things and may not ever get any true recognition for them. And this is a, this is a way of putting forward those people.
Paula Thomas (26m 38s):
Okay. So I think there’s one other category that you’ve had a lot of change in his weight as well, a niche, which is your financial services, cash agrees. So for anyone listening, who works with financial services, what’s changing in this year’s International Loyalty Awards.
Annich McIntosh (26m 54s):
The interesting thing about financial services is that lots of banks and insurance companies and other financial services firms probably do customer loyalty initiatives, but not necessarily under the umbrella of a customer loyalty program because of changes to chargebacks. And the way banks got paid brought about by the European Commission and other governments, the financials for financial services altered hugely, and lots of customer loyalty programs would ditched, but there are other things that banks have done.
Annich McIntosh (27m 39s):
For instance, somebody was telling me how many banks have written to their customers to say, look, if you’ve got any problems during, COVID do let us know we’re here to help. We’ll do all we can or just have provided a system that engages with customers well through a mobile app maybe, or there are a lot of initiatives that I think should be recognized, but they may not have been entered in the past because reading the criteria, people thought, oh, well, we’re not allowed to program. So we weren’t untied.
Annich McIntosh (28m 19s):
Well, come on banks, your entry in show us what you do to provide really good customer experience and customer engagement. And you, and the criteria now enable you to enter the international law to awards.
Paula Thomas (28m 36s):
Wonderful. So a much broader definition. And just to pick up on the point about the entries booklet, and each that you mentioned earlier, for anyone listening to this show, I’ll make sure to include that in our show notes. So it’s a wonderful document, super clear. And again, I suppose with my former judges house on what I always felt was important for entries was really for the entry to very closely reflect what your call for entries is asking for. So it almost feels like stating the obvious both. There were so many times I was reading something and going, they’re not reading that this belongs to another casual agree, or they haven’t articulated that clearly. And that’s not what this award is intended to recognize.
Paula Thomas (29m 18s):
So I love your booklet. And particularly as you said, when there are big changes, and I know you’ve changed every year, but particularly for financial services, if they have new initiatives, they can go in and read exactly how to match up with what the judges are looking for and have a wonderful opportunity to be recognized.
Annich McIntosh (29m 37s):
Great. That’s good. And just remember, February, February 14th is the date, the awards night gala night, put it in your diary June the 14th. Those are the two big dates that no one should forget in loyalty to.
Paula Thomas (29m 55s):
Totally well, as I said to you before we came on air, it’s already in my diary. I am certainly planning to attend the International Loyalty Awards in London on June 14th this year. So tell us, I know you’ve changed the venue as well in Asia. What’s, what’s happening with the location that’s time.
Annich McIntosh (30m 11s):
Well, because of the Jubilee and various other reasons, the tower isn’t actually available, this was a bit of a shock, but then turn around. And we found one that in some ways is even better because there’s a huge outdoor space for cocktails. So middle of the English summer, standing outside all those beautiful dresses that the ladies will be wearing and all the men who never looked better than, than in a dinner jacket, we will be drinking a cup and socializing on literally on the banks of the terms, looking out over well, the shard and oh, the whole, the whole of the River Themes landscape.
Annich McIntosh (31m 3s):
It’s a, it’s a delightful place and it’s a big area. It’s the old billing skate. So it’s a big, big, airy building, high ceilings, perfect. Actually for anyone who’s a tall, nervous, you know, huge amount of air and circulation. So we, we think it’s very exciting.
Paula Thomas (31m 24s):
And I certainly do too. And here today, as we’re recording a niche and the UK has actually even, you know, I suppose removed an awful lot of the restrictions. So again, please, God, all of that continues. I’m one of the people, thankfully who’s them really just not nervous. I feel like, you know, please, God, the whole thing has run its course. And by the time June comes around, I think there will probably almost just so much joy at being back together again in person that I think for me, I just, I just can’t imagine missing it. So super exciting again, as you said, a very historic venue, which is always what I love when I go to London, because that’s really what I associate with London being so, so beautiful.
Paula Thomas (32m 7s):
And of course, you can never fully having a few cocktails on the banks of the River Thames. So we’ll definitely be clinking our glasses together, celebrating everybody who’s here to hear, you know, exactly if they’ve won their award. So, so with that said, I think that’s everything in terms of questions from my side Annich, is there anything else that you wanted to mention that our global audience at Let’s Talk Loyalty, people need to think about in terms of the International Loyalty Awards this year?
Annich McIntosh (32m 37s):
Just get your entry written. I got mean, I can’t repeat that often enough because it’s, it’s, it’s going to be such a shame if your great work is not recognized and doesn’t get a chance to be put in front of are very hardworking, but prestigious and talented judges. And please, please write your entry and get it into us.
Paula Thomas (33m 5s):
Well, perfectly said, perfectly said, nah, we will end on that note. I will be sending out links to the International Loyalty Awards, of course, as your media partner, to our audience, listening to the show. So super easy to find you, as you said, you’re available for support. And it literally just takes a bit of time to sit down, write that entry and then hopefully celebrate all the amazing work. So yeah, not to tell you today. Yes. Wonderful. On that note, I’ll say goodbye. So thank you so much to Annich Macintosh and the International Loyalty Awards from everyone. And Let’s Talk Loyalty. Thank you.
Paula Thomas (33m 45s):
This show is sponsored by The Wise Marketer. The world’s most popular source of loyalty, marketing news insights and research. The Wise Marketer also offers loyalty marketing training through its Loyalty Academy, which has already certified over 170 executives in 20 countries as certified loyalty and marketing professionals. For more information, check out the TheWiseMarketer.com and LoyaltyAcademy.org. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on LetsTalkLoyalty.com and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday, or just head to your favourite podcast platform.
Paula Thomas (34m 36s):
Find Let’s Talk Loyalty and subscribe. Of course I’d love your feedback and reviews. And thanks again for supporting the show.
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