Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for Loyalty Marketing Professionals.
I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in Loyalty Marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
You So today, I’m coming to you with a different format of the show.
And the reason that I’ve decided just to change things this week is because I realized actually that we really have had some fantastic insights from seven loyalty experts over seven podcast episodes.
And I guess I was thinking that not all of you will have had a chance to listen to all seven episodes.
And therefore, it might be a good opportunity just to take a step back and to say, OK, what have we actually learned from these amazing guests?
So also what I’ve realized is my original intention was probably to have shorter shows, maybe 40 minutes, kind of felt like the right length of time.
But as I get into the conversations with these incredible people, what I’m finding is that I have too many questions to kind of really cut it too short.
So I’m definitely happy to kind of make sure that those conversations are the kind of conversations that I want to be having.
So I think it’s probably going to continue, that most episodes will be about an hour in length.
And I’d love your feedback on whether that’s working for you.
I know that podcasts and any form of audio content is being consumed in lots of different ways.
Sometimes, I guess, it’s at home when you’re cooking or cleaning or just doing normal household stuff, and for other people, it’s very much around the commute and listening to something of value when your time is otherwise perhaps not being used.
So I’d love to get your feedback if you ever have the time to maybe just drop me a quick email and let me know if the show has extra content ideas that you’re interested in, maybe other guest ideas, and I guess really particularly around how long or how short you’d like it to be.
So I think this episode will end up being a shorter one, and again, it will serve to bring everyone up to speed on the seven great ideas from the seven loyalty experts that I spoke to over the last number of weeks.
If you ever want to contact me, my email address is very simple.
It’s paula at letstalkloyalty.com, and I’m literally happy to get emails anytime from any of you guys in order to make sure that I can build something that’s most exciting for you to listen to.
So, let me just start to go back through exactly what we’ve covered over the last seven interviews.
We had two guests from my home country of Ireland, two guests from the UK, and then one each from India, from South Africa, and from here in Dubai.
And as you probably do know by now, that’s very much an intentional approach, because I often feel that in the business world, we focus so much on the United States, purely because of the size of the economy there.
And while that is absolutely fantastic, and there’s great learnings, I also think that diversity that comes from around the world is absolutely fascinating and really inspiring, and might be particularly useful if you are in a more mature market, where you want to look at what’s happening that’s maybe more disruptive than you’ve seen in your own countries.
So, first up in terms of the interviews over the last seven weeks was Sanjeev Nechani.
And Sanjeev is currently head of loyalty for a large group company in India called Raymond Limited.
And I have to confess, first of all, that I hadn’t heard of the Raymond brand, but it is exclusively operating in the Indian market.
So perhaps not that surprising really.
The program that Sanjeev currently manages did win the Loyalty Award as the best program in the Middle East and Asia in the 2017 Loyalty Magazine Awards.
And that’s probably because of the incredible work that they’ve managed to do, particularly in a franchise environment.
And for any of you who’ve worked in franchise businesses, it’s incredibly complex to manage the needs and business requirements of hundreds and hundreds of stakeholders.
So whereas the corporate environment has its own challenges in terms of making sure senior management are brought into loyalty, as you can imagine, with hundreds of business owners, it’s a whole different ballgame.
Now, even before setting up the Raymond Rewards program, Sanjeev had some incredible credentials, and which also led into his favorite loyalty statistic.
So, first of all, he did work for a program which must be one of the biggest in the world in terms of membership, and that was for the State Bank of India, and there was over 100 million members of that loyalty rewards program.
He also then went on to work on the supplier side for a technology company, which is best known for its work with Aeropran in Canada and Nectar in the UK.
And what Sanjeev shared in terms of his favorite loyalty statistic was really that actually those programs were impacting three out of four households in those mature markets.
So a really incredible impact that loyalty programs can have when they’re well executed.
So if you’re interested in anything from franchisees, particularly, then I definitely recommend listening to the interview with Sanjeev.
My second interview then was with Siobhán Lynch back in my home country of Ireland.
And Siobhán is the loyalty manager now for a program that I worked on under a previous name nearly 10 years ago when it was originally known as O2 Priority Moments.
Siobhán has done incredible work really tripling the membership number of this program.
And I think what’s really interesting for listeners to this particular show is that the 3 Plus program is one, first of all, within telecommunications, which is certainly common enough now in 2019.
But 10 years ago to have an entirely digital mobile loyalty program was incredibly innovative.
And I think it was always very insightful also to have a program that didn’t have or need a points currency in order to give benefits to consumers.
Instead what the 3 Plus program did and still does is negotiate an incredible portfolio of retail discount offers for its members, which are only available if you’re a customer of the 3 Network in Ireland.
So you get to available all of those incredible offers, but as well as an incredible marketing program, 3 Plus has evolved to become very commercial in its own right.
So the brands that provide those exclusive offers now also pay for the privilege to access such a scalable database with permission in the Irish consumer market.
So truly innovative and probably the reason that that loyalty program won the best loyalty program actually in Ireland this year with the All Ireland Marketing Awards.
I then went on in episode 4 to interview Mike Atkin.
And Mike is based in the UK, and he is fondly known as the loyalty guru.
And as I’ve often said, it blew me away when he calmly mentioned that he has launched or supported over 85 loyalty programs in his career to date.
Now not only that, they also span all kinds of types of global markets.
So everything from emerging markets, which might require a more straightforward approach, to highly mature markets, which might require more creative thinking and everything in between.
He’s also worked on some fascinating coalition programs, which as many listeners will know can be increasingly complex, given all of the stakeholders involved.
So Mike has done some great work with the famous payback program in Germany.
In addition to that, Mike realized that there was no central information source for any loyalty practitioner, whether you’re a consultant or a loyalty director, or a loyalty manager creating a new program.
If and when you’re looking for the right technology for your industry, for your proposition, it’s probably one of the biggest decisions to get right.
So no one had previously benchmarked all of the capabilities available in the market.
So Mike had took it upon himself and went off and benchmarked 65 loyalty platforms around the world.
So for anyone who is ever looking for what technology is right for them, then there’s some amazing expertise available through Mike.
So moving on then, my next interview was with Manav Fernandez.
And Manav lives and works in Dubai, like myself, and I came across Manav because of a great program he developed, which again is an award-winning program, and it’s called GEMS Rewards.
And it was shortlisted for the best loyalty program in the Middle East and Asia in 2017, and then went on to win it in 2018, which was brilliant.
And I guess it’s particularly interesting to have a loyalty program within the education sector, not an idea that I’d ever come across before.
And I really wanted to get an understanding, first of all, why it was needed and what type of program that they managed to successfully build in order to engage with the schools, with the teachers, and of course, with the parents of the children studying in the GEMS schools in Dubai.
When I asked Manav about his favorite loyalty statistic, he quoted the Boston Consulting Group who estimate that over the next five years, personalization will literally drive over $800 billion of revenue for the 15% of companies that get it right.
And I guess what really landed and drove home for me and what I learned from Manav was not just the incredible revenue uplift available if you can capture and master personalization for your customers, but also that 85% of companies either won’t even try or certainly won’t get there.
So for any of us who’ve been wondering about these amazing comments that data is a new oil, et cetera, I really did get that from talking to Manav.
So if you’re thinking about personalization, what I’m learning is absolutely now is the time to get started.
I then headed back to the UK and spoke to Crispin Rogers, and Crispin himself again has an incredible loyalty career spanning over 25 years, mainly in fuel retail, in fact, an industry close to my heart, but it was particularly because of his current proposition and his current company that I really wanted to talk to Crispin.
And as you’d expect, I suppose he opened with his loyalty statistic, which is that there’s actually over seven billion pounds of unspent points in the UK loyalty market.
And that really landed as a very shocking waste of money.
And clearly that’s what resonated with Crispin.
And he came up with this idea for good causes, where consumers in the UK can take those unspent points and actually make them valuable and useful to any charity that means something to them.
I think what I really learned from Crispin is that you can’t tell customers what to care about.
And that’s the reason they have over 14,000 charities already in the UK that you can donate loyalty points to.
So I think it’s a genius concept.
It’s one that I think has global potential.
And I know Crispin does too.
So I was super excited to sit down and talk through that amazing evolving idea of matching up loyalty points that are unspent on balance sheets with the charities that need them most.
Then I headed to South Africa to chat to Helene Brand, who was awarded the Loyalty Personality of the Year in 2015.
Now, the reason that she particularly was chosen for that award was, I guess, because of the decade of work she had put in on a world famous programme known as My School, My Village, My Planet.
And as you can guess from the title, it is a community-based programme.
It has been running in the South African market for over 20 years.
And it’s based on the simple idea that local businesses can really support local needs, such as schools, using customer loyalty to really generate value.
So it’s a super clever idea and has been extremely well executed to the extent that over that 20 years, over $36 million worth of rewards have been given back to the community through the My School programme.
So Helene was instrumental in making that programme operate so efficiently, and I guess for all of the awards that have been accredited to it.
So at least eight international awards to date.
What I love then is we had a very different type of conversation.
So if you’re thinking about loyalty, there’s actually a really good starting point, and that’s to talk about brand.
And what Helene tells me that she really loves thinking about now and working on is actually the story behind your brand, not just a structured loyalty programme, but really what is your intention for your business.
And we talked about stories and how they really create something that customers can connect to, and it definitely brought some fresh thinking for me in terms of how to approach the emotion of loyalty rather than purely the programmes around loyalty.
So I really encourage you, if you’re interested in the zeitgeist, and I think we all know that particularly the millennial generation are looking for brands that really have a purpose, then I definitely suggest you go and listen to that episode.
When I asked Helene her favourite loyalty statistic, she actually shared an insight that she got from working with some data analysts on the My School programme.
And it was really to beware the flaw of averages, as distinct from the law of averages.
And I think what really landed there for me was, yes, there’s amazing data, but without the human insight and human intuition, you may well not be on the right path, or you might miss a huge opportunity that really the human mind can really tap into.
So to make sure that you tap into both the creative side of data, as well as the science and the facts behind it.
So I then went back to Ireland and had a great conversation with a friend and former colleague by the name of Leanne Papiouanu.
And Leanne shared her favourite loyalty statistic, which is one I have to say has come up actually in practically every conversation that I’ve had over the last couple of weeks.
And even at the Loyalty Surgery Conference in the UK, the concept of emotional loyalty is really one that I’m hearing coming up in every speaker and every conversation.
So Leanne quoted some fantastic research from Capgemini, which basically estimated that of a new loyalty program, if you launch one without that emotional insight and engagement.
If your program is purely transactional, then up to 77% of that type of loyalty program is likely and estimated to fail within the first two years.
So really a big lesson in making sure that your loyalty program is balanced and that you’re making sure to capture something that really matters to your consumer, not just something that directly rewards them for something that they’ve done as a transaction.
It needs to be bigger and bolder than that if you want to be successful in this day and age.
Leanne has worked on some phenomenal consumer programs, such as the Circle K program in Ireland called Player Park, but she’s also one of the few people I know who has worked on business to business loyalty.
So we had a great conversation about Dulux as another client of hers, and again got some great insights that are really useful if you’re ever looking at B2B loyalty.
So that’s it for now, guys.
As you know, this podcast is really designed to be educational.
And I have to say, I found it really useful today to go back and just remind myself of the seven key lessons that I got from those seven first interviews and episodes.
Coming up in the next few weeks, my guests include Jesper Ostergaard, who is the managing director for the 7-Eleven stores in Denmark.
And I’ve always noticed that Scandinavia actually is so far ahead in many ways in terms of its thinking around digital and innovation, and certainly in the world of convenience retail.
I know for a fact it’s an industry that customers really prioritize speed and efficiency.
So if you’re going to capture permission and loyalty in that sector, it really has to be done in a very different way, which is super exciting.
So I’m really looking forward to talking to Jasper.
I’m then going to head to a conversation with Mike Capizzi in the United States.
And Mike has done some incredible work in recent months, really trying to get behind the big question of why loyalty programs fail.
And like myself, I know Mike really values a global perspective.
So what he’s done, he’s talked to people all around the world who are consultants and loyalty managers, and really asked them what do they believe are the biggest challenges with loyalty programs in this day and age.
So the Delphi Report is just being published, and we will get unique insights into exactly what he has learned.
So for now, I just want to say again a huge thank you for engaging with the show.
And I want to let you know that there’s been over 1200 downloads already just in the last eight weeks, so I’m really excited and grateful for your time and attention.
And I just want to say thank you for all of your support, and please continue to listening and learning from Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com, and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday.
Or just head to your favorite podcast platform.
Find Let’s Talk Loyalty and subscribe.
Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews, and thanks again for supporting the show.
Publisher’s Note:
This transcript was generated with the help of AI and podcast publishing tools such as Apple Podcast’s transcription service.
In the interests of efficiency and minimising our costs as a small business, it has not been checked by a human.
If you have any comments or concerns about the accuracy of this content, please do contact us for changes or corrections.
