Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals.
Paula: I’m your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world.
Paula: So welcome to this week’s edition of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: And today I am interviewing a gentleman based in London, who is coming at the whole area of emotional connection for brands from a very different perspective.
Paula: So as many of you listening will know, I have done a huge amount of work with brand partnerships over the years, and they’ve all been done within the context of loyalty programs.
Paula: But Tom Sugg, who I’m about to chat to, specializes in brand partnerships for all different types of marketing objectives.
Paula: And I’ve been particularly impressed, in fact, with his own marketing, in fact, on LinkedIn, as somebody who’s really managing to drive a huge amount of awareness of the type of work they’re doing from the agency that he works for in London, which is called Brand Culture.
Paula: So there are some really exciting brands that we’re going to talk about, some fascinating case studies.
Paula: Some of them will be around the area of sales promotion.
Paula: And as much as possible, obviously, we’ll talk about how this content is relevant to you as loyalty managers listening.
Paula: So before I get into the conversation, let me first of all welcome Tom Sugg to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Tom: Thank you very much, Paula.
Tom: Lovely to be on your show.
Paula: So first of all, Tom, your tagline on LinkedIn describes you as accelerating growth with emotionally charged activations.
Paula: So that’s very exciting.
Paula: And I know you do very exciting work, as I said.
Paula: So first of all, you’re working a very long time, I know, with Brand Culture.
Paula: So tell us about your own career to date.
Tom: Yeah, sure.
Tom: No problem.
Tom: Thank you.
Tom: So Brand Culture have been going for just over 15 years.
Tom: And as you have quite rightly said, I have been there for almost all of that time.
Tom: So yeah, almost part of the furniture.
Tom: We are an independently owned, multi-award winning creative agency.
Tom: To your point earlier, we harnessed the power of entertainment and life starter to really light up the consumer journey.
Tom: And I think a way to explain that in a bit more detail for your listeners who don’t have the visual cues that you’d perhaps expect to see on our website is that we help brands really excite, inspire and delight their customers.
Tom: Existing customers as well as new, I should add.
Tom: And how we do that is we look to leverage their cultural passions and interests.
Tom: So it’s really all about what are they into?
Tom: What is it that makes them tick?
Tom: What’s their social currency?
Tom: And then we activate emotionally charged campaigns through the line.
Tom: So we’re quite agnostic when it comes to where these campaigns go.
Tom: But more often than not, the type of work that we do for our brand clients, I’m sure we’ll get into it in a bit more detail, is often centered around those touch points, which, as I say, our clients’ audiences are into.
Tom: And that might be film, it might be music, gaming, sports, travel, etc.
Tom: So yeah, that’s kind of the brand culture in a nutshell, I guess.
Paula: Great.
Paula: Well, certainly the sexy side of marketing, I’m going to say.
Paula: And I think I said to you in preparation for the call, Tom, that I was, you know, keen to do some work at the film studio myself in the past, but really didn’t have, I suppose, the expertise around negotiating something with global rights owners, I guess.
Paula: So that’s the kind of thing we’ll talk through now.
Paula: And even before we start, Tom, as you know, I always love to start the show with, you know, like a loyalty statistic or something that really inspires you in your work.
Paula: So tell our listeners, what is it that is your favorite loyalty statistic?
Tom: Yeah, thank you.
Tom: This is obviously a really interesting one.
Tom: And, you know, there’s so much evidence and research out there that points to the importance of this type of work.
Tom: You know, just looking after your customers, it’s so important.
Tom: So very difficult to pull out just one.
Tom: But I’d say that the, you know, the 80% of companies, you know, that agree that retention is cheaper than acquisition is pretty compelling.
Tom: Existing customers being, you know, that much, I won’t say that much more valuable, but, you know, in terms of the stats, you know, kind of easier to retain a customer than get a new one.
Tom: It’s vital that you look after your biggest fans.
Tom: And I think just to maybe add to that, I think another kind of percentage, just to throw another one out there, is that three quarters or 75% of consumers say that they favor companies that offer these types of reward platforms.
Tom: So I think kind of, you know, I think those two, you know, things combined kind of tell you all you need to know about this type of work and its importance.
Paula: Absolutely.
Paula: And as I said in the intro, Tom, we’re not just talking about loyalty programs in terms of the work that you do, but I would love to start with some of the work you have done in our space, which is going to be, I suppose, directly of interest to the audience and hopefully just inspire some really big thinking.
Paula: And one thing that I suppose we are talking about a huge amount is the importance of driving emotional engagement.
Paula: And I suppose the reason why this particular topic and using, you know, really exciting assets like film and games really is so relevant for us and I guess for any marketeer.
Paula: But I know way back in the beginning of the agency, you did a lot of work in particularly the film sector for a loyalty program.
Paula: So maybe that’s the best place to start.
Tom: Yeah, sure.
Tom: So 15, well, between 10 and 15 years ago, when Brand Culture was first starting out, we worked for some of the biggest film studios and film distributors out there.
Tom: And they were continually, and still to this day, we still work with some big studios now.
Tom: But one of their primary objectives is very much obviously about brand partnerships to engage consumers and to really drive awareness with their new film launch and ultimately put bums on seats and drive ticket sales.
Tom: So we actually did a lot of work with arguably one of the most famous loyalty platforms of its time.
Tom: Sadly, not with us anymore, but with Orange, the telco company, and their Orange Wednesdays two-for-one cinema ticket.
Paula: Amazing.
Tom: Yeah, so we worked with those guys for, as I say, kind of quite a few years, providing content around new film launches, namely films that were to be launched theatrically, which is in cinemas, and working with the team at Orange and also their agencies in providing, as I say, kind of content, but also kind of offers and rewards and exciting experiences and signed merchandise and obviously things like premier tickets and meeting briefs and this type of thing.
Tom: So that was something which we worked on for a very long time.
Tom: And as you and your listeners will know better than anyone, other telco brands have since kind of picked up the mantle in terms of running very successful programs in a very similar space and now not just necessarily looking for content and offers from film companies, but also just from all these other touch points which we’ve mentioned.
Tom: So O2, the Telefonica brand, have a huge program in their priority platform, which I know that they’re investing again in to really create that kind of standout.
Tom: And film is, of course, an area which they’re playing in, but as is music, as is gaming, as is travel, as is sport, and as is all these other touch points that I mentioned.
Tom: Excuse me, we’ve more recently worked with Marriott with their Bonvoy rewards platform.
Tom: We worked with those guys around the launch last year.
Tom: And I think it was quite an interesting kind of little case study, actually, is that Marriott were and are kind of well known for business travelers and from a corporate point of view.
Tom: But I think what a lot of people and certainly their research showed, a lot of people perhaps didn’t kind of view them as being a destination or somewhere where they could go with the family for exciting kind of fun family holidays.
Tom: So they really wanted to try and, I wouldn’t necessarily say shift the corporate image, but they really wanted to try and shift perception and to let kind of broader family audiences know that they could have a lot of fun if they booked a holiday or a stay at one of their resorts.
Tom: So we helped them identify a touch point that would resonate with families.
Tom: And that was in the form of, they wanted to run something in the summer.
Tom: And so that kind of came about in the form of a new movie released, The Secret Life of Pets 2, which was from the same team that released Despicable Me and the Minions movie.
Tom: So really kind of big, high-profile, all-audience animated fantastic film.
Tom: And we used that content and that association to create a campaign that was communicated, activated through the line.
Tom: So it was communicated through there above the line and through their digital social channels, but also through their loyalty platform as well to really kind of engage and, I guess, educate consumers that they too had a very compelling kind of family offering.
Tom: And, you know, can’t go into too many details in terms of kind of the results, but I can say that it certainly kind of exceeded their expectations in terms of the uptake and the bookings that they received from a kind of a family demographic, much so that, you know, I wouldn’t be surprised if you saw, you know, kind of other campaigns leveraging this type of content going forward.
Paula: Yeah, and it’s a very good point, Tom, as well, because, as you probably know, for loyalty directors and loyalty managers, our number one objective is change behavior.
Paula: So at the end of the day, you know, we’re giving rewards, we’re giving recognition, and we’re building our programs in order to say thank you to our customers.
Paula: But at the end of the day, what we also want is to connect with them more and move them up that value chain of, yes, you know, they’ll buy more or stay more, as in the case of Marriott, and obviously also recommend the brand to their friends and family.
Paula: So I love to hear that film is being used by the Bonvoy program.
Paula: That’s fantastic.
Tom: Yeah, it’s certainly good, and it’s something which we’re seeing increasingly.
Tom: And again, you know, kind of the risk of repeating myself, you know, the movies and video gaming and music and sport, these are all kind of exciting touch points that have that kind of emotional connection with consumers and is what they want, is what they’re seeking out, is what they want to be talking about.
Tom: It’s their social currency.
Tom: And I think if brands can really kind of leverage that appeal and do it credibly and authentically, which is obviously what we try to do for our clients, then I think they can see, they can begin to enjoy and see some real kind of successes going forward.
Tom: So it’s great that they’ve done something and has had success and long may it continue.
Paula: Indeed.
Paula: And just even to pick up on your earlier point, Tom, in terms of Orange Wednesdays, because again, I would have negotiated, I suppose, on the transactional side with cinemas in Ireland, in terms of getting that, you know, exclusive ticketing offer on a particular day or days of the week.
Paula: But at the end of the day, it really was the activation around the content and the visual appeal of the content itself.
Paula: That was what really brought it to life.
Paula: So, you know, you can say two for one cinema tickets and people will remember that because it was valid all year round.
Paula: But unless you remind them that Despicable Me or something is coming out, they’re not really going to get excited about that brand and that partnership.
Paula: So I think it’s great that you, I suppose, have that kind of end to end solution that you go through the whole activation.
Paula: Because there is no point having a loyalty offering unless it’s very, very well executed.
Tom: Yeah, absolutely.
Tom: I think it’s worth saying that, you know, from the film side of things, you know, we’ve worked with not just necessarily film companies, we’re just using those guys as an example.
Tom: We’ve worked with them, you know, for many years, as I say, from the beginning of Brand Culture’s existence, developing these brand partnerships.
Tom: And, you know, we’re going out to, you know, a whole load of brands from all types of different kind of sectors and industries across the board.
Tom: You know, we literally have worked with, you know, hundreds of different types of brands who are looking at ways to…
Tom: Or should I say, you know, they recognize the power and the appeal of these types of assets of, you know, film, gaming, or what have you.
Tom: And these brands are using that content and that association to engage and to reward their customers.
Tom: And some brands are obviously doing it really, really well, which is obviously great to see.
Tom: And it’s because of, there I say, because of this kind of experience and our expertise working and understanding how these film companies and entertainment rights holders work.
Tom: It’s because of that expertise that we are able to work on, you know, I guess for want of a better phrase, on the other side and helping brands directly kind of activate compelling campaigns that harness the power and the appeal and the buzz that surrounds, you know, a new film or a new entertainment release.
Tom: And as I mentioned, Marriott is a good example.
Tom: But, you know, we also do, you know, we also do a lot of work for kind of FMCG brands such as Coke.
Tom: You know, we work with those guys internationally.
Tom: We also work with Energizer as well, doing exactly the same thing, you know, leveraging consumer passion points as a means to kind of really kind of accelerate growth.
Tom: And that, I guess, is going back to your first point in terms of my little headline on my LinkedIn.
Tom: You know, that’s kind of how we how we kind of go about helping our clients.
Paula: Yeah, yeah.
Paula: And clearly brands like Coca-Cola and Energizer are hugely commercial in terms of the analysis that they put around every piece of marketing that they do.
Paula: So the fact that you’re kind of, I suppose, working across sectors like FMCG, while it’s not the people listening to this, I suppose it does prove the efficacy, I suppose, of the overall approach.
Paula: So I was going to ask, actually, Tom, just if there are kind of loyalty program managers listening, who kind of think that this could be a nice idea to give, you know, whether it’s a tactical campaign just for something exciting in the short term, or they want to kind of work with maybe film studios longer term.
Paula: What kind of process would you go through with a particular brand if they wanted to tap into this emotional opportunity?
Tom: Yeah, sure.
Tom: So that’s a really good question.
Tom: I think the first thing to do is definitely to sit down and really understand, have a deep dive into the brand and really try to understand everything that they’ve done, or certainly everything they’ve done over the last few years from a marketing and from an engagement point of view.
Tom: Really trying to understand their customers, any kind of research that the brand has done or, you know, if they’ve hired anyone else to kind of do research into kind of those kind of touch points or kind of what indexes with their current customer, but obviously, ideally, you know, kind of who they’re trying to reach.
Tom: And if film is, you know, I think one of the wonderful things about film and the movies is that it does have that universal appeal.
Tom: You know, we’ve done lots of work with other clients with other kind of touch points.
Tom: But I think the ones that I mentioned, you know, film, music, gaming, sport, those types of touch points are really kind of key in terms of having a universal appeal.
Tom: So if that was, if film was an area which they wanted to explore, it would then very much be about kind of going out there into the marketplace and really trying to dig into the various different options that might be relevant for that brand and for that audience.
Tom: Because of course, there are so many different kind of ways of looking at film, you know, film alone, whether it’s a new theatrical release, you know, is it a big blockbuster like a Star Wars or like a Marvel, you know, superhero movie or do you go down the more kind of kind of art house route or, you know, more of a drama, you know, there’s lots of different kind of avenues to explore from a genre point of view.
Tom: But then of course, there’s also whether you’re looking from a theatrical point of view, are you a film that’s out in cinemas?
Tom: Are you looking at more of a home entertainment release?
Tom: Do you want to look into the options around your, you know, your premium kind of streaming platforms like your Netflix’s or your Amazon Prime’s?
Tom: There’s lots of different ways to kind of use and work with film.
Tom: And all the different kind of companies that represent these titles, whether they’re the distributors or the platform owners, all have kind of similar objectives, but they obviously all work in very different ways.
Tom: And one of the, I guess, unique things about brand culture is that, you know, we’ve worked and we do work for all these types of different, you know, kind of film companies.
Tom: So we know what kind of makes them tick.
Tom: We know what they’re looking for from these types of brand partnerships.
Tom: So we’re quite uniquely placed, I think, to act on behalf of our brand clients and help them negotiate the best possible deal, I guess, for want of a better phrase, in terms of, you know, going to that rights holder or to that distributor.
Tom: Really explaining what it is that we can offer them, which invariably is, you know, kind of awareness and helping kind of, you know, buying a cinema ticket or, you know, kind of sharing what they’ve watched with their friends on Netflix or what have you.
Tom: But we can best kind of negotiate, as I say, kind of an opportunity and then work together as that middleman, but also crucially as that kind of authentic creative resource, developing the campaign and then activating it through kind of multiple channels.
Paula: Absolutely.
Paula: And I know what you said to me as well, Tom, is that again, I think you guys have a good understanding of, you know, if a brand perhaps didn’t have a massive budget to go and subsidize or fund something.
Paula: And I mentioned to you, I was keen to get Star Wars as an asset, but it simply was too expensive for the brand I was working for at the time to fully execute the way we would have liked to because it has that kind of brand value.
Paula: But it does seem that there are definitely plenty of studios and assets and rights that are available on a contra basis if the brand has other benefits such as like massive scale.
Paula: And that might be below the line, obviously, a lot of loyalty programs, it could be massive email databases and membership that they can just communicate to.
Paula: So it sounds like there’s a mix of models that you can work with depending on what the programs might need.
Tom: Yeah, absolutely.
Tom: I think that’s definitely fair.
Tom: And again, given our experience working for many years with many of the different companies in this space, we have seen lots of different models, as you say.
Tom: I think it’s about really trying to identify the brand in questions.
Tom: What is it that they’re ideally looking to do?
Tom: What is their ambition?
Tom: Do they want to go all out straight away and start doing something with one of the bigger blockbusters?
Tom: Or who should I say, invariably, will be looking for that massive awareness, the big above the line campaign.
Tom: But then on the other side, looking at it from a different lens, there are plenty of opportunities in our experience of studios or distributors that are looking for help where it doesn’t necessarily have to have that big above the line presence.
Tom: You mentioned some of the below the line opportunities that some of these brands, all these platforms that some of these brands have access to in terms of their own media.
Tom: And I think one of the things that we always try and be clear about is that scale can very much be achieved in very different ways.
Tom: And of course, the big advertising TV spends are obviously fantastic.
Tom: And a lot of the film studios will obviously love that type of thing.
Tom: But equally, there are properties and films and there’s content out there that is looking for new audiences.
Tom: And there are opportunities to work with brands who might have, as I say, like a big database or they have a strong social following.
Tom: So again, it’s about understanding and knowing what opportunities are out there across the board.
Tom: And then, as I say, knowing who to speak to.
Tom: And then, as I said, really understanding what their pain points are and what it is that these rights holders are actually after.
Tom: And being able to come to them with a solution that ultimately is a win-win for both parties.
Paula: Yeah, and I love that, actually.
Paula: I know myself, again, the only way to work on partnerships is to have the vested interests of both parties equally close to heart, because you’re probably getting your fees paid from one side, maybe the brand itself, but unless you get a really wow result as well for the rights holder, it’s just not going to work, and you’re not going to be able to do business long term.
Paula: So yeah, it’s a unique position, actually.
Paula: I think you have to wow the customer, wow the brand, and wow the rights holder.
Paula: So it’s a bit of a balancing act.
Tom: Yeah, absolutely.
Tom: Co-partnerships by their very nature, needing to make sure that both sides of the arrangement are very happy.
Tom: So yeah, there is a huge element in terms of managing both sides of the relationship.
Tom: We might be working for the film company in one instance, pitching an opportunity to a brand partner.
Tom: But equally, we have to look at those guys as almost being a client as well, because ultimately what we want to happen at the end of the day is, of course, to have a successful campaign that works for our client.
Tom: But equally, we want to make sure that the brand partner is equally not just satisfied, but impressed and excited to the point where we want them to be calling us back to say, that was such a great opportunity.
Tom: It worked so brilliantly.
Tom: What else is coming down the pipe?
Tom: And then equally, when we’re working for our brand clients, and the shoe’s on the other foot, and we’re going out to the rights holder, and we’re asking if there’s an opportunity for us to work together, we want to make sure that we are doing a good job in terms of hitting their objectives, so that we know that when the next Star Wars film comes out, for example, we know we’re putting ourselves in as good a position as possible to get that call back from them.
Tom: Do you want to work with us again?
Tom: Do you want to have first refusal on this next release, or what have you?
Tom: Or, you know, we had such a great time working with you last time, how about we look to change things up and see if there’s more things that we can do together, or unlock or open doors that perhaps weren’t open the first time around?
Tom: So, yeah, it’s hugely important to ensure that you’re looking after both sides of the arrangement, definitely.
Paula: Great.
Paula: And on a very practical note, Tom, you know, what are the requirements, you know, in terms of capacity to operationalize something like this?
Paula: Like, I’m assuming most of these big guys now will have digital codes, for example, for, you know, to access, for example, home streaming content that you mentioned.
Paula: But I guess there’s a mix of online and offline mechanics that you use.
Paula: So how well advanced is that?
Paula: And it may be different in different markets.
Paula: And I know you work way beyond the UK.
Paula: In fact, I think you mentioned 55 markets, I think, for one particular client.
Paula: So, so, so truly global, but by all accounts.
Paula: But just talk to me about how the mechanics typically work.
Tom: Yeah.
Tom: So I think, I think, to your point, it’s it can be super, super complex.
Tom: The campaign that you mentioned kind of in 55 markets, again, it was for one of our FMCG clients where we ran a promotion whereby you could download, you know, you buy a promotional pack and you could download a, you know, inverted commerce free movie via, I think it was at the time, via Google Play.
Tom: So that was the team that developed this would kill me for saying that it was, was a simple, was a simple solution.
Tom: But for the benefit of your listeners to try and explain, the mechanic was relatively straightforward.
Tom: And as far as you bought a pack of the batteries, you entered your details online and you received a code that you were able to then go on to Google Play and download a film of your choice.
Tom: You know, when you say it like that, it does come across as sounding quite straightforward.
Tom: I think the challenge with that particular campaign was that we were activating in, as I said, I think it was 55 markets having to do all the translations, not just across the microsites, but also across all the points of sale and all the touch points across all the different displays in the client’s key accounts.
Tom: And then trying to translate the promotional offer in that many languages was pretty tricky as well.
Tom: I think one of the challenges now we have is that that kind of platform no longer exists as a means to download movies in so many markets.
Tom: So now it is about having to change things up and look at different options and different mechanics.
Tom: And in some instances, we’re having to look at very different ways of redeeming offers by market, even for the same campaign.
Tom: So it is quite tricky.
Tom: It is complex.
Tom: When we do have so many markets participating in a campaign or a platform, it’s obviously fantastic.
Tom: And it’s something which I think we’ve really carved the position out on in terms of helping really build advocates throughout an organization to get that buy-in to a centrally developed idea, which is something which some of our clients have struggled with in the past.
Tom: But to really build out that idea and excite, as I say, stakeholders throughout an organization and get them to buy into wanting to run it in their market is hugely rewarding.
Tom: And I think going from maybe a campaign that’s run in five markets and then over the last few years, helping build that out to 55 markets is obviously something which we’re immensely proud of and obviously very pleased to have won various awards last year that recognize our achievements in helping our clients achieve that type of goal.
Paula: Absolutely.
Paula: And again, I mean, batteries is something that we all buy almost as a grudge purchase, you know, it’s one of those things.
Paula: It’s super hard to differentiate.
Paula: But actually, again, I suppose when we look at what sectors are typically interested in loyalty programs, they tend to be where there’s very other few ways to differentiate.
Paula: So airlines love to think that my product is absolutely the best, and convincing customer of that, of course, is its own piece of communication.
Paula: But otherwise, fundamentally, some people are like, it’s just a plan getting me from A to B.
Paula: So with differentiating proposition that you’ve done for Energizer, it’s super exciting to hear that you went from 5 to 55.
Paula: So well done on that one.
Tom: Thank you very much.
Paula: Great.
Paula: And are there any other ones, Tom, that you would kind of, you know, mention as, you know, I suppose flagship projects or things that you are particularly proud of or excited about in any particular market?
Tom: Yes.
Tom: Well, you know, I think I kind of mentioned before that we work on both sides of the coin, so to speak.
Tom: You know, we do lots of work for Universal Pictures and also for DreamWorks.
Tom: So we develop a lot of their kind of brand partnerships that are designed to, you know, really kind of, you know, kind of inspire consumers to kind of go out and check out, you know, the latest film that might be hitting cinemas, etc.
Tom: We’ve worked on some, obviously, in our opinion, some lovely campaigns.
Tom: One of our favourites, one of my favourites was a partnership between an insurance brand, a pet insurance brand, actually, called Petplan, which is, sorry, a kind of a division or, you know, under the Allianz umbrella.
Tom: And again, a movie which I mentioned earlier, The Secret Life of Pets, which the original film came out a few years ago.
Tom: But we worked with those guys on a campaign that was really kind of designed to educate kind of the pet owners on the importance of taking out, you know, relevant pet insurance and using a fun, family friendly, kind of non offensive, you know, kind of movie release to really try and kind of, you know, you know, get people to kind of take a second look at this insurance ad and really understand that, you know, you know, why you should take out, you know, a relevant product.
Tom: And they used film content from the trailer in their TV ad.
Tom: The agency that worked on it did a really great job in terms of pulling that kind of ad together to create something really unique.
Tom: And then the kind of, I guess, where the rewards kind of element kind of fit in was that for anyone, anyone who, you know, took out a policy over the course of, you know, that promotional period, received, you know, kind of like a limited edition kind of pet product or blanket, obviously for their four legged furry friend, which worked out really, really nicely.
Tom: So that one won a fair few effectiveness awards at the time.
Tom: Excuse me, I can’t obviously go into too much detail in terms of the exact results.
Tom: But again, I can tell you that I think both sides of the, both parties in the partnership are very pleased in terms of the film coming out at number one, and then Petplan having seen some real success in terms of, you know, an increase in policy sales off the back of the campaign.
Tom: Again, I think it just really points to, I think the evidence is hopefully really clear that when you work with something which your consumers are super passionate about, and it goes back to the whole emotional engagement thing, when you work with a property and you do it credibly and authentically, you can expect some really strong results.
Tom: And I think the insurance category, you know, is an interesting one.
Tom: You know, when they’ve then leveraged a film launch, they’ve seen such an increase in their bottom lines is a really strong offer.
Paula: Yeah, yeah.
Paula: And it’s a great example, Tom, because again, I’ve worked in insurance across different types of products, and it’s super hard to get people excited about it.
Paula: So to find that way to kind of really make it so appealing is lovely.
Paula: And something I came across recently, and it won’t be a surprise to any listeners, but there is, as you know, a big shift, I suppose, just in terms of pets overall, in how they’re positioned just in our minds in society.
Paula: So in fact, I believe that people who have pets now call themselves parents, pet parents, rather than pet owners.
Paula: So there you go.
Paula: So there’s definitely a whole different way of managing with that particular sector.
Paula: So a lovely example.
Tom: So I was just going to say another one, which we worked on, which was quite interesting, was with the Mattress brand Otty.
Tom: So your listeners are probably familiar with, I guess, the rise in these types of brands, like the Mattress in a Box.
Tom: I think it would be a good way to describe them.
Tom: There’s quite a few players out there now in terms of, you see them advertised a fair bit.
Tom: And we actually worked with those guys on, we’ve actually worked with them twice, which hopefully again kind of points to this type of method working.
Tom: But we worked with those guys again actually on the sequel to The Secret Life of Pets, because they brilliantly, they also do mattresses for your pets as well.
Paula: Brilliant.
Tom: So again, it kind of ties into the point you’ve just made in terms of pet parents really kind of going for it and spending their hard earned cash I think on their dogs as well.
Tom: If it’s not an Instagram account, they’ve got kind of made for their pet.
Tom: They’ve now got a mattress as well.
Tom: We actually did a lovely campaign with those guys, again, whereby they used the content from The Secret Life of Pets to promote the fact that they had this type of offering as well, which is obvious and worked really well.
Tom: And again, such was the success of this type of brand partnership that they worked with us again on a release that actually came out around Halloween time, which was the new animated version of The Addams Family, which again kind of worked really well.
Tom: So I think I just wanted to kind of add that one in because, you know, the mattress-in-a-box type brands, you know, again, a very kind of non-traditional, I think, in terms of doing this type of a partnership.
Tom: And again, I think it’s just a good one to mention in terms of evidence that points to the success that you can see when you find the right type of opportunity and execute it in the right way.
Paula: Yeah, and I had no idea there was a market for pet mattresses now, Tom.
Paula: So I think it’s a stroke of genius, you know.
Paula: So there you go.
Paula: Point proven.
Paula: And the last few bits I want to get into, because it’s not just film, obviously, I guess you’re seeing a huge amount more in terms of music and gaming partnerships.
Paula: So is that true in terms of what would you say that they may even overtake film?
Paula: Or how are those categories of assets coming through in terms of their appeal to consumers?
Tom: Yeah, sure.
Tom: So film is definitely kind of our bread and butter in terms of where the agency came from.
Tom: I think that, you know, sorry to use this phrase, but I think back in the day, and I’m sure my two bosses won’t mind me saying that, you know, 15 years ago they were working on the original kind of brand partnerships between, you know, kind of Disney, Brunevista and McDonald’s, you know, doing the Happy Meal promotion, which is still a staple of today’s promotional market in terms of, you know, McDonald’s are constantly in Happy Meal, you know, with relevant film releases.
Tom: But I think since then, and certainly in my experience, having worked there for almost as long, is that those other touch points that I mentioned, which you’ve just said in terms of video games, music, and sport, and what have you, I would say are as prevalent as film are nowadays.
Tom: And we certainly don’t have a…
Tom: I don’t think one kind of outshines the other in terms of the level of work that we’re doing for our clients.
Tom: I think that video gaming, as many of your listeners will know, is massive.
Tom: I think the rise of kind of mobile gaming has had a huge effect on that in terms of every single person having essentially a games console in their back pocket at all times has become…
Tom: is huge.
Tom: I think gaming by value is that much bigger than film just off the back of the cost of a new console game, for example.
Tom: And with the next generation in games consoles coming down the track in terms of PlayStation 5 and the new Xbox, these types of partnerships and these types of opportunities are only going to get more and more popular, I think.
Tom: And then again, I could talk about this all day, but I’ll save you the…
Tom: I know we’ve only got a limited amount of time, but I think music and live events and gigs is massive, as is sport as well.
Tom: And we’re seeing lots of brands, not just our clients, but lots of activations that are really trying to tap into music, but also sport, and not just football and rugby, people looking at other sports as well, which is really exciting.
Paula: It sure is.
Paula: And again, those industries are so well developed in terms of their sponsorship models and everything they’ve done for years.
Paula: So I think even from that side, they seem to be looking for more innovative ways to drive their own brand awareness and engagement.
Paula: So definitely the brand partnership model seems to fit on both sides for them as well.
Tom: Yeah, absolutely.
Paula: So that was more or less all the questions I wanted to go through, Tom.
Paula: I suppose just from my side to finish off, a couple of points I was going to pick up on.
Paula: One is I loved hearing and learning actually, I suppose the flexibility of some of the stuff you’ve done.
Paula: For example, here’s a code for a movie of your choice in a particular channel, because anything I’ve seen maybe on PAC, for example, promotions and all of those types of things, they tend to be title led.
Paula: But yet, as a loyalty manager, I might want to say to my end user, no, actually, you might be able to choose your own movie.
Paula: So I do love that kind of flexibility piece.
Paula: And then just to pick up on the fact of what I’m hearing is certainly an increasing investment in this whole partnerships area, whether it’s with big rights holders or literally two brands with them, with similar target markets that believe they can suddenly work together in parallel to complement each other’s businesses.
Paula: So just exciting from my perspective again as a partnerships person to kind of hear how the industry is growing.
Tom: Yeah, absolutely.
Tom: I think to your first point in terms of the level of choice is a really interesting one broadly across kind of marketing, but also rewards and loyalty and personalization, I think.
Tom: I think that’s going to be a trend which I think we’re going to continue to see going forward.
Tom: Everyone knows that brands know kind of what you’re browsing for now, not just kind of what based on your transaction.
Tom: They can recommend products based on the information that they can see the algorithms of you just browsing certain products on a brand’s website.
Tom: I think that we know that consumers want that unique customer experience.
Tom: I think that we can see this being kind of reflected in rewards programs increasingly.
Tom: I think there’s so much content and opportunity out there.
Tom: It’s trying to understand from your client kind of what it is they want.
Tom: Do they want to have the big hit with a big one-off moment in time event release like a Star Wars where you are perhaps restricted, not perhaps, you are restricted to working with the film studio around the time of its release.
Tom: at Christmas, which again, the argument is for and against whether that’s a good time to work together because of everything else that’s going on and getting that cut through, versus doing something where you’re not necessarily restricted to a film launch date.
Tom: And you can look at a studio’s back catalogue, like we did with 20th Century Fox, where you can pick out I think up to 30 films, where you can really kind of choose and find and curate a list of films that are going to have as broad appeal as possible, and then use that content within your communications to make sure you’re hitting as many of your target consumers as possible.
Tom: So I think all that kind of stuff is again just down to kind of really understanding what the client is looking for, and then again crucially really knowing kind of who to go and speak to and how to best negotiate a deal.
Paula: Yeah, and I like that actually about a back catalogue as well, Tom, because again, I’m sure there’s immense value in that, which will remain untapped, you know, if brand partners aren’t coming forward to say, you know, let’s use that and get the value of it.
Paula: And it might be a much more affordable option than trying to get a new release, which is obviously going to be top dollar, I guess, at the time that it’s happening.
Tom: Yeah, I mean, to be fair, it completely varies, as I said, and I don’t mean that to sound kind of to give you kind of like a woolly answer.
Tom: It’s just it’s really it’s really about understanding kind of how all these different entertainments, entertainment, right holder companies work.
Tom: And as I say, kind of what it is that they’re looking for.
Tom: And, you know, if there’s a deal to be done, you know, it can be negotiated.
Tom: But, you know, there are there are lots of different factors that play into kind of costs and kind of what is and what isn’t possible.
Tom: But ultimately, if you’re if you’re approaching a film studio and you have something to offer them, which they see, you know, that they find of value, which will help them achieve their objective, then then, you know, the evidence in terms of the work that we’ve done for our clients points to, you know, that there are an abundance of opportunities.
Tom: It’s just, as I said, it’s just about knowing kind of who to speak to and how to best how to best structure a deal, really.
Paula: Brilliant.
Paula: Well, that’s it from my side.
Paula: Obviously, in the show notes, I will put links to Brand Culture.
Paula: I’ll put links to your own LinkedIn profile.
Paula: No problem.
Paula: And my overall hope is that I’ve inspired or we’ve inspired maybe some listeners to think about some of this very exciting kind of content and ways that they might freshen up their loyalty program.
Paula: So before I go, was there any other kind of closing points you wanted to cover from your side?
Tom: No, I don’t think so, Paula.
Tom: I think we’ve covered off a fair amount then.
Tom: I would just say that maybe just to end on, in terms of the work that brand culture do, it very much kind of falls into the category that you’ve talked about earlier in terms of that emotional engagement and really kind of tapping into what it is that kind of brands and our clients’ consumers are into and really talking to them in an incredible and authentic way to accelerate their growth and kind of sell more really.
Tom: So, definitely if there’s anybody out there interested to kind of talk to us about kind of some of our work and kind of how we went about it, then yeah, as you said right at the beginning, I’m out on LinkedIn a fair amount.
Tom: So, if somebody wants to connect, then I’ll be sure to kind of get back in touch with them.
Paula: Brilliant, Tom.
Paula: Okay, well, listen, that’s it for me.
Paula: As I said, I just want to say thanks a million for your time.
Paula: And for talking to Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Tom: Thank you very much.
Paula: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.
Paula: If you’d like me to send you the latest show each week, simply sign up for the show newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com, and I’ll send you the latest episode to your inbox every Thursday.
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Paula: Of course, I’d love your feedback and reviews, and thanks again for supporting the show.
Paula: Thank you.
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