Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and also Loyalty TV. If you work in loyalty marketing, you can watch our video interviews every Thursday on www. loyalty. tv. And of course, you can listen to our podcasts, every Tuesday, every Wednesday, and every Thursday to learn the latest ideas from loyalty experts around the world. Today’s episode is part of The Wiser Loyalty series, which is hosted by our partners, The Wise Marketer Group. The Wise Marketer Group is a media, education and advisory services company providing resources for loyalty marketers through The Wise marketer digital publication and The Loyalty Academy program that offers the certified loyalty marketing professional or CLMP designation. I hope you enjoy this weekly podcast, The Wiser Loyalty Series brought to you by Let’s Talk Loyalty and The Wise marketer Group.
This show is brought to you by Comarch, a multi country leader in customer engagement tools that help you forge meaningful connections and boost profits, leveraging over 10 years of experience in utilizing AI technology. From immersive loyalty programs to captivating marketing campaigns, Comarch helps you deliver personalized experiences across every touchpoint. Gather valuable insights. understand customer behavior, and watch your brand recognition soar. Comarch, where innovation meets customer satisfaction. To learn more, visit Comarch. com.
Bill: Welcome everyone to The Wiser Loyalty Series. This is a podcast series that is sponsored by the Let’s Talk Loyalty and, and The Wise Marketer together. And each week, uh, CMO, Aaron Dauphinee and myself, Bill Hanifin, we’re here to unpack some pretty neat topics that come directly from The Loyalty Academy.
So, I think most of, you know, we have a Loyalty Academy Curriculum that includes probably over 25 or 30 courses today. And it’s a place where you can earn the designation of a Certified Loyalty Marketing Professional. So each month in this wiser loyalty series, we’ve been selecting a course to focus on and to go deep.
And it’s our opportunity to expose some brand new material and insights from the latest research and information that Aaron and I have been seeing. Aaron, we’ve got something pretty neat dialed up here based around our loyalty member communications course, which is course 110. Um, can you kind of set the set us on a course here for today’s conversation?
Sure.
Aaron: We’re at the end of our monthly series. So this is episode 4 on member communications and, you know, it seems hard not to talk about loyalty communications and and not give some time to words. Communication channel preferences and the frequency of contact that brands, you know, have with their members.
Um, this topic seemingly is always 1. that is top of mind for marketers and they’re needing to refine and tweak as they go to optimize the connection points that they have with their customers. Um, but that optimization has certainly been made a bit easier. I’d say. say with privacy and regulation standards, having up the ante, so to speak.
And what I mean by this is we’re we’re in a point where, uh, in most regions in the world, customers can now opt to not be contacted by the brand entirely. But in other regions, they can opt to have their data removed as well as not be contacted. And so that in that could be even when it’s used in aggregate.
So there’s some real consideration as to getting this mix right in terms of how we connect with the customer because we don’t want them to unenroll or to opt out of of our channels of communications with them. So, so that’s that’s kind of the goal. And I guess, um, you know, there’s, I think for, for to some degree, um, things have stayed consistent over the number of years, but.
We thought we’d just pull and there’s a number of sources out there that we can pull from, but we thought we’d pull from 1 report and kind of keep it consistent in terms of how the research methodology went through. Um, but to give really people an update in terms of where members mindsets are at, in terms of customer preferences and the frequency of contact.
So
Bill: good way to go, you know, I think stats are a good place to start. Don’t you think? Like, people like to hear from us, but they also want to know. What does the research say, and what’s happening out in the marketplace? So, um, I’ll open up with the obvious question that most of us will want answered, which is, is email still in the pole position, your formula 1 fan.
So I’ll say the whole position of communications or has it has it handed that leadership position over to another channel. So the latest thing that I saw. Was a 2023 cordial report report from this cordial marketing, which had some really good data about the fact that email was still the preferred channel for most consumers.
So, we’ve seen lots of other reports, but. Um, it seems like email is certainly not slipping at all. So we saw that 66 percent of respondents in this survey indicated. That email was their number 1 choice for a communication channel. And while we likely all assume the text messaging is next in line. It might be, but it’s actually the mobile app that has risen up to the number 2 spot, which is with a 30 percent share of respondents indicating that.
So, you know, probably not surprisingly, the drive to push mobile up the ladder was coming from millennials, like, 48 percent millennials. So that is number 1. and Gen Z was right there. Gen X was there. Boomers were low on the on the app. Adoption scale, they were last with about 10 percent there, but. Um, that actually was kind of surprised me a little bit, because I think that, um, well, maybe there’s a dichotomy of boomers.
I said this to somebody the other day is. 1 of the things you really have to be careful with is, is taking the broad brush to any 1 of these generational groups. Right, because there are boomers, for example. That I would say are probably very switched on and very engaged and all of that. And then there’s some, they’re sitting in the chair complaining about every.
Last thing that they can get their hands on, so quite a dichotomy. So that’s probably where it balances out to the 10%. But what was interesting, too, is a direct mail is still measuring in at more than 1 and 5. like, there was 23 percent of people that said the direct mail was really important to them. The phone had dropped down a little bit, so it was.
It was kind of a 1 in 10 as a preferred channel of communication, but I think that stat, Aaron, that that was in regards to people directly communicating over the phone for some kind of promotional message or something. It wasn’t. It wasn’t the use of the device, the mobile device number 1 screen that tipping points in the rear view mirror, but using the telephone, like, going on a phone call was the very last on that whole list.
Aaron: Yeah, that’s right. I think it was about 11 percent and it was for individuals being contacted by the brand through phone call or leaving a voice message is what that was talking about. But you’re right. I mean, these stats really, they set the stage very well. And so, you know, I’m confident that our listeners out there immediately will say, well, you know, these are averages.
So you kind of alluded to that a little bit, Bill, and these are averages and they shouldn’t be the same. Um, broadly generalized across or within the actual generations, but they also can’t be broadly generalized across the generational divide. You know, there are certainly would be sets of differences between them.
And and so we know, as you alluded to, our younger consumers are much more digitally native and certain communication styles. They do pop differently for them than others. And, um, what in that same report, uh, what was interesting to me was the data showed that millennials near are near to the average of that same age.
66 percent for email as a preference while Gen Z, which is not surprising, but also Gen X, which is surprising, uh, we’re indicating that the email preference was a bit lower at around 60%. So, uh, kind of the tooth, uh, straddling cohorts of the millennials, not really at that average, but at actually lower than, of course, um, the boomers were, were a bit lower.
We’re, we’re much, much, much higher. I think it was around 75%, uh, where they indicated, uh, that they’d, they’d have an average for email, but, uh, the point being, um, you know, the, for the boomers, you kind of alluded to that, that generational group, um, 75 percent for email, their next highest per second preference was direct mail at 25%.
So the remainder all fell off, uh, after that. So, you know, what’s this mean overall, you know, what do you think, what is the opportunity for marketers built from your perspective? Turn it back to you.
Bill: Well, you know what? I think it’s what’s interesting is, um, the phone is, is this prominent connection point for us?
It’s the ultimate aggregator device. You’ve got everything there. You’ve got your ability to, um, to look at email. Yeah, open up app. Sure. You know, check your text messages. You get a phone call. I mean, all these things are obvious, but I think it’s I feel like we should open have a little master class for consumers on how to make your phone work for you instead of you being, you know, enslaved sort of to the phone and.
And so I think we’ve all sort of experienced, um, like, uh, how do we configure our notifications the right way so that we get the things that are important to us? So, so perhaps, like, with email, you don’t want to be notified for every email. It hits your inbox. I go back and forth, like, LinkedIn from a standpoint is important to us.
So I do have notifications turned on for LinkedIn because I want to know when people are posting or mentioning our brand or things like that. But from a promotional standpoint. You know, you’ve got a lot of choices too. Do, do you wanna be aware of every promotional in, you know, notice that comes in through SMS, like, Hey, we’ve got this on sale, or, Hey, we noticed that you were in the, the shopping cart and you didn’t complete the purchase.
Why, why don’t you come back and have another look? So, um, you know that I, I think that, um, the same would be with mobile apps. Like, so somebody, you’ve had this question asked of you many times. I have too. What’s your favorite loyalty program? I will bet that a lot of us have a very select number of apps where notifications are turned on, but we’ve also got probably 100 on the phone that are not turned on that.
We, when we need it, we go there. So that’s the interesting thing about the phone to me is it’s anything is possible. But. We need to be a little bit better control. And I think, you know, maybe as a brand, we need to do something. We need to behave ourselves as a brand so that we’re 1 of the few apps or other other forms of communication that people are willing to accept on a continual basis and not not suppress.
Aaron: Yeah, I like where you’re going with that. I mean, when I think about these, these preference choices, uh, by for channel, you know, the email and then the mobile mobile device, you know, you have to your point, a degree of control of how intrusive they might be and which brands you would want to have to notify you versus those that you can just kind of muffle to some degree.
But if I think about, you know, the devices you talked about, like, as the entry point, the access point, you know, if you get a phone call or text, yes, you can silence those. To mediums, but you don’t do that all day long. And so a phone at the end of the day, at some points has active sounds and notifications that come through, uh, where, um, you know, it’s quite, quite intrusive.
And that timing is determined by others. I think, right? I think that’s the other part is even with email and mobile app, but you get a notification that time is determined by others of when it arrives, but you determine. When you actually pick it up versus the phone call or text message. Sometimes that timing is determined by others, but it’s still intrusive because it’s on their timing, and it’s much more literally alarming.
And you might say so, uh, you know, then LJ use theirs. I’m wanting my friends to contact me at times. And it’s okay for them to be in true, more intrusive, but not not a brand, right? I don’t want a brand to have that much ability to flag for my attention. You know, that’s not that’s not the interaction that I’m looking for.
And I think that reflects some, some of the frequency of contact data that we see. Yes. And in terms, so maybe we can turn our head from channel to a bit of contact frequency and insights.
Bill: Yep. No, I actually, you know, I think by and large brands contacting members of a loyalty program need to be acutely aware of how intrusive they might be.
And they need to think about the relevancy of the messages that they’re sending out. So if their comms are too generic or they’re not relevant personally to me as a member. Um, it’s not going to have a good result. And I think we’ve seen some research that across multiple data sources, we see a breaking point and about a week of cadence.
So, if it’s, if it’s going to go beyond that multiple times per week messages coming through. Um, people will, um, and we’ve seen numbers like nearly 75% say, if, if you overwhelm me with messages, I will unenroll, I will disengage from your communication stream. So that’s the last thing that we want. Um, and, and I think the other, so it’s frequency and then it’s relevancy.
So the other thing is relevancy. And we’ve seen numbers that indicate that people are, um, are highly sensitive and, and you know, a third or more of some in one research we saw lately said that. If you’re sending me messages, and it’s not on target, and it just seems generic, I will unenroll. So, you know, the assumption is that we’ve, we’ve got to be relevant and we’ve got to stay on a cadence that is going to keep people interested, not overwhelm them.
Aaron: Yeah, I think that when we saw in that data specifically was the fact that nearly 75 percent were going to unenroll if you contacted them daily, right? That was like, that’s too much. That’s to your point that you’re talking about. But, as you said, if it’s relevant and purposeful to me, then, and depending upon what the nature of the relationship is with the brand, maybe daily is okay, because maybe it’s some form of content that I want to have on a daily basis, but it’s because it’s relevant for impertinent to me in my daily life.
So, you know, I think what we’re doing here is we’re not really shock and awing anyone today. We’re mostly confirming the state of the nation that’s been in play for a while now. Um, and, and that by and large is that email is an important data capture, right? You need, you want to get that email. Uh, but that mobile is certainly gaining grounds.
And that’s, I think, a function of just more mobile apps coming into play as, as well as, um, you know, the two kind of starting to coexist in terms of communication options. But, uh, brands really need to, um. In my mind, at least continue to be on this quest to identify that sweet spot for how often they contact the program member, just as we’re saying.
So, you know, for me, 2 of the, these are best addressed in terms of how you capture your communication preference details early in the onboarding process. Uh, and I’m not suggesting at all that it needs to be right at the point of enrollment, but you’re, you’re going to want to get at minimum phone and email as a starting points.
Um, but if you’re, you know, and when you think about the privacy in terms and conditions acceptance that you have at the onset, it may make sense to make sure that you get both of them there, but it may not. And so you’ve got to really understand the nature of that and have an onboarding process that allows you to, if you don’t capture it early, make sure that you can pick it up in a, in a way that makes sense.
Sense and shows that you’re going to have purposeful intent in terms of how you’re using it. So I think there’s, um, and I think there’s always a fine balance in this from the making the ease of enrollment simple, right? Or making it very, very quick to capture data and just get underway with the brand.
Through to making sure that you have a path in your onboarding process to capturing the data sets and the data points that you need in order to you for you to be really savvy and helpful in your communication with your members on a long term basis. So, um, it’s not to say that, I guess, the point of which I’m saying is, you need to have a data plan in your onboarding strategy in terms of capturing some of these key points that you can then have these, these communications at a level where the actual members telling you the frequency and and the means in which they want to communicate with you.
Bill: Yeah, and it takes me back to a study we did a long time ago that we looked at about 10, 000 emails from loyalty program providers in the U. S. across every industry. And, you know, we had less than 1 percent that were indicated some level of personalization and actually asked the member about their preferences.
What are you interested in? Do you like this? That or the other there’s there’s still very little of that. And I have to say, you know, judging by 1, but looking at my inbox, I think it’s probably. Similar with a lot of people, I don’t see that much outreach to the customer asking about what do you really like?
And what are you interested in? So that’s something I think that just about every brand can work on a little bit more. And so, listen, we’ve been talking about digital communications, everything digital so far, and the title of our topic today alluded to a little bit more. So, um, you know, the more and more that customers are bombarded with brand emails and.
You know, some doing better than others, but it’s a loud and noisy landscape out there, and it’s really challenging for people to cut through all that noise. And so I’ve got to ask, you know, is direct mail. Still relevant is direct mail important is snail mail even the answer and. You know, the answer is, uh, I was going to be coy and say, perhaps, but, you know, I could be a little more definitive right now, just to tell you, because we, you know, we just launched the CMO council interview series.
And I was able to interview a person last week from Val pack. It’s a large direct mail company in the US, the largest actually, but their business is going gangbusters. And a lot of it goes back to the fact that. Direct mail does cut through the clutter. It lends things in the mailbox and on the kitchen table that people are interested to look at it.
You know, they can spend some time browsing and it’s a way to get your message through through a different format. So let’s not forget that. Yeah,
Aaron: I think that’s a fair statement actually, um, you know, and we talked about the stat earlier. I mentioned it that, you know, had direct mail as the 2nd, most preferred channel for boomers after email.
It’s only the 3rd or 4th preferred for the other generational chords, but still it’s there. And and I think 1 thing to keep in mind is that, you know, these are the preferences. And not de facto truce, like it’s not a thou shall not contact me through these other channels. It’s that I have a preference for this channel over those others.
And so customers aren’t saying they shouldn’t contact me through these channels. It’s, it’s perhaps can be thought more of, um, more of as a, as a message towards like, contact me through them, but it better be meaningful. It better be relevant and it better have purpose when you’re, when you’re doing that.
So, um, I don’t know, Bill, I, can you think about some examples that maybe come through, uh, based upon what you just described? Well, you know,
Bill: I’m kind of wondering if maybe the way you should think about channel is also by tier. So, if you, if you cut the matrix 2 ways, you could say. You know, I understand the channel preferences in general, but maybe we look at it just, um.
By certain groups of of loyalty program members, and maybe there’s a role for more physical interaction. Like, we talked about recognition being more important to higher level, higher value customers. 1, form of recognition is to give them. A physical communication that speaks to them and provides them a different way to interact with your brand.
And so that really could be something to think about. It’s not something you want to do across the board. And it’s certainly not to people that are just sort of lightly engaged with you. But how about for those top tier people sending them? It’s like, do you remember the old Neiman Marcus catalog? It was just over the top outrageous with the type of things that were.
Included, you know, including some inside back cover on 1 enormous item that was like a 1, 000, 000 dollars or something. But right. But how fun is that? In a way? It’s like reading the Rob report or reading, um, you know, some fun magazine that. Aspirational
Aaron: No, I love that and I think, uh, you know, for me, the obvious 1 is with airlines and hoteliers.
I mean, um, the airline that I’m often involved with their Canada, you know, still sends a physical element when you hit your thresholds, but, uh, I noticed more recently that that’s a delayed delayed process in terms of getting it. So I get my email announcement of, hey, You know, hit 50 K, I’ve hit 70 5K, I’m on my way to super elite.
Um, it’s great. But, um, the actual physical tags only come out at a certain point of time in the year. And, and, and so I understand the reasons why they’re doing that. I’m not knocking them, but, but still getting that physical communication is, is an interesting point. And, and you know, when you tap that onto the credit card program that I have with them as, as a, as a priority, uh, uh, or as a, a privileged member, um, you know, that experience from what it was a number of years ago when you first signed into PRIV versus getting.
It, you know, later on, um, has certainly changed. And I think there’s something in the details for, for making sure that, you know, you’ve got those moments that kind of are remarkable and cut through. So, um, but, but by and large, I agree with you 100%. You’re not going to want to institute this for every customer, but certainly for top customers and, and in surprise and delight moments or cut through moments like we talked about in, in terms of the customer life cycle.
You know, it’s certainly something to consider. Um, and I was watching a mini talk on instagram the other day, actually, and the name of the speaker is just eluding me at the moment. My apologies. I’ll try to track it down. But what the individual is talking about was saying, he was saying, sending something physical is a differentiator for sure.
But even then it may not be remarkable or catch the customer’s interest. And so the comment he said is, you know, if you send it by registered post or courier, he was British, the registered post, um, then immediately the mindset of the customer, you know, is that, Hey, this is important. This is prestigious.
And so why would a brand send it through this more expensive means? It has to be. Some upping of the ante here as well, too, in terms of why I’d pay attention to it. So, you know, my point being that certainly this is not the norm and maybe it is for luxury good brands to be the norm or those with, you know, handling inconspicuous consumption levels of customers, but for more common purchases in categories.
Uh, and for some, not all, um, if this is done intelligently and for certain select customers, it could be a hit because you immediately get the attention, uh, beyond just the regular snail mail. But now it’s like paid mail. Uh, and, and you can, and rise up in terms of, Hey, this is something they’re doing.
That’s going above and beyond. Anyway, just a thought.
Bill: It’s a great place to land it right there. I think, um, you covered it really well. So, Hey, as always, for anyone interested in joining our community of loyalty, marketing professionals. You can learn more at loyaltyacademy. org about how you can earn your designation and join the thousand plus CLMPs that we now have in 54 countries around the world.
And as well, if you want to dig into previous podcasts, then you can access this Wiser loyalty series at thewisemarketer. com. Or, of course, at let’s talk loyalty dot com. Um, love to continue these conversations with anyone listening offline. So send us there. Pick your channel, send us an email, send us a WhatsApp, pick your channel and we’ll respond to you.
And, um, you know, if you’ve got a good take, maybe we can even feature you in an interview or something. So. With all that, we, we wish you all a great week. Uh, look forward to seeing you again next week and thanks for being here. Have a good day, everyone stay well.
Paula: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketer Group, publisher of the Wise Marketer, the premier digital customer loyalty marketing resource for industry relevant news, insights, and research. Wise Marketer Group also offers loyalty education and training globally through its Loyalty Academy, which has certified nearly 900 marketers and executives in 49 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.
For global coverage of customer engagement and loyalty, check out thewisemarketer.com and become a wiser marketer or subscriber. Learn more about global loyalty education for individuals or corporate training programs at loyaltyacademy.org.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. If you’d like us to send you the latest shows each week, simply sign up for the Let’s Talk Loyalty newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com and we’ll send our best episodes straight to your inbox. And don’t forget that you can follow Let’s Talk Loyalty on any of your favorite podcast platforms. And of course, we’d love for you to share your feedback and reviews. Thanks again for supporting the show.
Publisher’s Note:
This transcript was generated with the help of AI and podcast publishing tools such as Apple Podcast’s transcription service.
In the interests of efficiency and minimising our costs as a small business, it has not been checked by a human.
If you have any comments or concerns about the accuracy of this content, please do contact us for changes or corrections.
