The World's LARGEST Loyalty Programs? (#653)

Paula: We’re here to talk about the largest global loyalty programs from some initial research and share that, of course, with the audience.

Laurent: One of the key findings is that if you look at, you know, automobile in general, we’re probably the largest program around automobiles.

Paula: McDonald’s globally, and it is truly a global program, is now at 150 million members.

Laurent: We couldn’t find any program over 300 million members, but Nike, they’re the biggest at 300 million.

Laurent: I have about 25 years of experience in management consulting, working with large and small firms, mostly in strategy and innovation.

Paula: Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, a show for loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: I’m Paula Thomas, the founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV, where we feature insightful conversations with loyalty professionals from the world’s leading brands.

Paula: If you work in loyalty marketing, join us every week to hear the latest ideas and insights for loyalty marketing specialists around the world.

Paula: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Paula: Today’s topic is super fun and something we’ve never done on this show before.

Paula: We came across some research that one of our loyal listeners had compiled, which listed the membership figures of some of the world’s largest loyalty programs.

Paula: That listener, and now our guest today, is Laurent Guinand, PhD, who created the list we’re discussing, which he called The Largest Global Loyalty Programs.

Paula: Laurent is the founder and CEO of Aramis Advisors LLC, based in the United States.

Paula: And he has a super background in loyalty as well, which he’ll explain for us.

Paula: I wanted him to share with our audience which programs came out on top in his research, so he’s kindly joining me here today to share what he found.

Paula: I hope you enjoy the conversation and if you’d like a copy of his slides or to add more programs or any updated information you have, please just drop me an email on pola at letstalkloyalty.com.

Paula: I hope you enjoy this super fun episode all about The Largest Global Loyalty Programs.

Paula: So, Laurent, after a very long time, I’ve really been looking forward to this conversation.

Paula: So welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Laurent: Thank you, Paula.

Laurent: It’s nice to be here with you.

Paula: Indeed.

Paula: And I know you’re a very loyal listener of the show, Laurent.

Paula: So it really is honestly a joy to, first of all, get a LinkedIn message from anybody who listens to the show, which you did.

Paula: And then we did a little bit of work together and it led to this conversation.

Paula: We discovered a mutual topic of interest, which I think our audience is absolutely going to love.

Paula: And so we’re here to talk about the largest global loyalty programs that we’re aware of from some initial research and share that, of course, with the audience.

Paula: But before we get into the detail and the incredible work you’ve been doing, Laurent, as you know, we always love to start off this show with a fairly, I suppose, different question.

Paula: Try to get a sense of you as an individual and as a leader.

Paula: I suppose somebody who’s worked in business across a lot of interesting sectors.

Paula: So if there was a book, Laurent, that you would want to recommend to our audience, anything that is non-fiction, it can be about life or leadership or, of course, loyalty.

Paula: What would be your favorite?

Laurent: Okay, that’s a tough question because there are many very interesting books.

Laurent: But, you know, I think a book that I read several times is an indication of a good book.

Laurent: And for me, it was The E-Myth from Michael Gerber, which is not a new book, obviously, although it has evolved over time.

Laurent: But it’s a really interesting, you know, it tells a story about building something new, going from an idea to a business and, you know, going from an idea to a program, going from an idea to a department, a new business unit.

Laurent: And it is really a lot about pivoting.

Laurent: How do you learn?

Laurent: How do you apply what you learn?

Laurent: And how do you learn from your mistakes?

Laurent: How do you build processes?

Laurent: How do you streamline, you know?

Laurent: And how do you standardize for the purpose of scaling something that is of interest?

Laurent: For me, I’ve used that many times over and really enjoyed the way it was written.

Paula: Okay.

Paula: And I enjoyed it as well.

Paula: I have to say, Laurent, this is one I have read and I really did learn, actually.

Paula: And what I did learn was exactly what you just talked about, the idea of systematizing something.

Paula: I don’t know if that’s the correct word, but essentially creating the process.

Paula: And I remember he talked about McDonald’s a lot because essentially again, for a business owner, you know, they might not necessarily want to be in the burger business, but what they want to be is in a profitable business.

Paula: And McDonald’s delivers that for entrepreneurs in a way that is predictable, is scalable.

Paula: And I remember thinking, oh, my goodness, that is genius.

Paula: You know, the difference of McDonald’s as a money making machine and as a business, which is quite different to how most of us as consumers just see it as a restaurant.

Paula: So, yes, so an amazing book.

Paula: You’ve obviously, as you said, read it many times.

Laurent: Yes.

Laurent: And I think it’s very applicable to loyalty.

Laurent: Like, how do you think and design your program?

Laurent: Or how do you alter it or evolve it?

Laurent: I think that’s a book that can really help you think through that process.

Paula: Indeed.

Paula: I think I have to go and reread it now.

Paula: So with that context, there you go.

Paula: So, listen, Laurent, as I said, we came across each other through this show, but you have been in this industry, in fact, a very long time doing some incredible work.

Paula: So before we get into this latest piece of research that you’ve done for a particular project and obviously a role that you’re working on, I’d love you just to give the audience a bit of a sense of you as a marketing professional, business professional.

Paula: How did you get to where you are today?

Laurent: Sure.

Laurent: My pleasure.

Laurent: So I have about 25 years of experience in management consulting, working with large and small firms, mostly in strategy and innovation, thinking through building new revenue streams.

Laurent: In the past eight years, I would say, I’ve done a lot of work around loyalty.

Laurent: I was with AARP, so I joined the client for a while and worked on loyalty topics in particular, how to work on discounts and the travel industry.

Laurent: So how do you build new offering or change what you have to make it more attractive and create more engagement within the global program?

Laurent: Then I moved on to FIA, the Federation of Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile, which is based in Geneva, which is mostly known for motor car racing.

Laurent: They are the regulator of F1 and many other races.

Laurent: But they also have a federation of automobile clubs around the world.

Laurent: So in the US., we have AAA, in Canada, CAA.

Laurent: These are well-known brands on my side of the world.

Laurent: But every country of the world has at least one club, automobile clubs in their home country.

Laurent: They are federated in Geneva.

Laurent: Together, they represent 90 million members.

Paula: Wow.

Laurent: And for them, I’ve built a global B2B loyalty program.

Laurent: And we went from looking at it from an investment perspective.

Laurent: Is it a worthwhile investment?

Laurent: It took us a while to find the right formula and the right approach that would be accepted by a number of clubs.

Laurent: It got funded by the Innovation Fund, and then they asked me to stay as the general manager and to build the program, basically, which is what I’ve done over the past three and a half years.

Paula: Indeed.

Paula: Yes.

Paula: And I think I said to you actually that the proposition that you that you ended up building specifically, as you said, for the automobile associations is very similar to how I started in loyalty.

Paula: So I was in a telecommunications brand, as a lot of the audience know.

Paula: And again, we didn’t have a budget for points.

Paula: We didn’t even really want a currency.

Paula: I wasn’t involved in the strategy actually on that side.

Paula: But I was negotiating exclusive offers that would give, I suppose, the members of that telephone network a reason to stay with O2, as it happened at the time.

Paula: It did change ownership as a business.

Paula: But the idea that you could, I suppose, match up, you know, with significant discounts.

Paula: And in my case, it was high street brands throughout Ireland.

Paula: And again, offer that exclusively to the members of O2, customers of O2.

Paula: And they loved it.

Paula: And they would go off to the high street and, you know, use their discount codes.

Paula: And it was just very compelling as a retention tool.

Paula: But without the headache of a points program, it was actually a very good model.

Laurent: Yes.

Laurent: Yes, thank you.

Laurent: I mean, this was really the base of this program.

Laurent: Together, the clubs have a better negotiation power than just on their own.

Laurent: Also, when you centralize data capturing on the one platform, it is cheaper for all the clubs.

Laurent: And you can leapfrog a number of investments that each club would make on their own.

Laurent: So it made a lot of sense from that perspective.

Paula: Indeed.

Paula: And I suppose the big number that you casually mentioned there as well, around 90 million members globally.

Paula: Were you surprised when you got in and discovered how many people are members of automobile associations around the world?

Laurent: I was.

Laurent: I was certainly surprised.

Laurent: I had knowledge mostly of the North American market, which has a lot of members too.

Laurent: But collectively, I think those clubs did not realize how much they represented, the force they could represent.

Laurent: And actually, the research we’ll talk about really stemmed from that finding, which was what does that mean, 90 million members?

Laurent: Are we a big program?

Laurent: Are we a small program in the global arena?

Laurent: How does that compare to others?

Paula: Indeed.

Paula: Yeah.

Paula: It’s a very valid question.

Paula: And as I said, it was the kind of idea.

Paula: In fact, I talked about it with one other person in the past, but I never got to do a full episode about it.

Paula: So I was delighted that you had some slides prepared, which, of course, we’re going to make available to everybody who wants them, who listens to this particular episode and might be curious.

Paula: So I suppose the context just, I suppose, to again, I suppose, summarize what you’ve just told us.

Paula: This was mainly done by you for your internal purposes to help build, I suppose, a context for the negotiations for the partner team and help build the global business owners, I suppose, feel a sense of pride in terms of exactly how they are ranking on the global stage.

Laurent: It’s exactly that, yes.

Laurent: So, you know, FIA was not known for being a potential loyalty program.

Laurent: It’s known for motorsport.

Laurent: And but the collective, you know, amalgamation of clubs was really powerful, in our opinion.

Laurent: Now, when we were approaching very large global companies like Apple or McDonald or, you know, Marriott, we were a little bit of an unknown.

Laurent: So we created that slide to show how we were positioned, you know, compared to all the others and that we were, it was worth doing business with us because we mattered, you know, in the overall landscape.

Paula: Amazing.

Laurent: And, you know, one of the key findings we’ll talk, I think about findings, maybe a bit later on.

Laurent: But one of the key findings is that if you look at, you know, automobile in general, we’re probably, I mean, we, I said, we, I’m no longer there, but still quite interested.

Laurent: Yeah.

Laurent: It’s the largest program around automobiles, you know, loyalty program that we can tell.

Paula: For sure.

Laurent: In the world.

Paula: Yeah.

Paula: And again, I think I said to you last time, I don’t have a car in this country where I live now, but that’s the only reason that I’m not a member of an automobile association.

Paula: For me, certainly back in Ireland, any time I had a car, from the very first time I bought one, I needed that sense of security of roadside assistance, which of course is the core value proposition.

Paula: But then I know all of your colleagues around the world and indeed had the Canadian Automobile Association on the show a couple of times explaining how the value is being developed and built over time.

Paula: So it certainly is a global phenomenon.

Paula: Again, as you said, probably not one that a lot of people are aware of.

Paula: So we’re here to build that awareness and as we’ve talked about, your research covers 25 programs that you’ve uncovered that we believe are some of the biggest in the world.

Paula: And I think I wanted to make the point before we start talking about the actual findings and about what this isn’t.

Paula: And so this is not a massive comprehensive, fully statistically valid and tested piece of research done by an army of students or anything like it.

Paula: This is Laurent very kindly sharing some work he did privately for a project he was working on, using publicly available information.

Paula: And I think we’ve agreed that of course it’s going to be out of date, just because we haven’t started working together on it until now.

Paula: So we’re inviting a lot of people to challenge us, to contradict us, to tell us what we’re missing.

Paula: Have I covered all of the caveats, Laurent?

Paula: Because I think we want to make sure that we’re very clear about what it is and what it isn’t.

Laurent: Yes, I mean a couple more maybe, but just to reinforce your point, we want to enrich that.

Laurent: I think this is a tool that could be helpful for a lot of people.

Laurent: So this is a starting point, not an end point.

Laurent: I want also to mention that we did not take into account credit card programs, or purely credit card programs.

Laurent: We were looking at loyalty programs, purely loyalty programs, because for FIA, this was what we were trying to partner with.

Laurent: This is not also a subscription business like Amazon Prime or Walmart Plus, which can be a competitor, but is sometimes a different business model.

Laurent: So really purely loyalty programs here.

Paula: Indeed, yeah.

Paula: And I think the other thing that we haven’t done, Laurent, ahead of today is really defined or tried to find an identical definition.

Paula: I just wanted to make that point because I’ve seen, for example, in Australia at the moment, a fair bit of controversy around how different programs are reporting on membership numbers.

Paula: Some programs report total membership, as in ever joined or just registered, and others quoting active membership.

Paula: So again, every business has their own reasons for deciding what they’re going to quote.

Paula: And we’re not going to get into any discussions about what is being quoted.

Paula: So for sure, there are programs where there are a lot of members disengaged.

Paula: In fact, there are plenty where there are people deceased.

Paula: And we all know that that’s a fact.

Paula: So with all of those exemptions and caveats, let’s get into the good stuff.

Paula: So where do you want to start, Laurent?

Paula: Do you want to start at the top or at the end?

Paula: What was maybe the biggest loyalty program that you came across?

Paula: Sorry, actually, one other thing I should say is there’s predominantly a Western bias from what we’ve done again with this first version, because you are based in the US.

Paula: So I think that’s OK.

Paula: Yeah?

Laurent: Yes, that works.

Laurent: Yeah.

Laurent: I would admit to that.

Paula: Perfect.

Paula: Go on, Laurent.

Laurent: Maybe I can start with a few key takeaways, and then we can drill down to a number of specifics, if it’s OK with you?

Paula: Yes.

Laurent: So we’re trying to understand first what big was, what’s a number, what’s a big number, right?

Laurent: So we’re 90 million.

Laurent: Who is bigger than we are?

Laurent: And so we found that there is this line at 100 million, where you have a few key players that are above 100 million, and we highlighted the one that we could find, particularly the one we’re talking with.

Laurent: And it’s a mix of, I want to say, retail and tourism and travel, for the most part, regardless of where they are located, which kind of makes sense because people are engaged in retail more frequently, and then they like to travel, even though they might not travel all the time, they are definitely more engaged and try to make it a little less expensive or more exciting.

Laurent: So for me, that made sense.

Laurent: Below that, there is really a whole patchwork of organizations from the 10 to 100 million that we found still a few retailers, but membership organizations like ARP or AAA.

Laurent: And then still some very large global companies that have a program that is truly global.

Laurent: So that’s kind of the, you know, the first, yeah, we said the threshold is 100 million.

Laurent: We couldn’t find any program over 300 million members.

Laurent: You know, I thought we would be maybe 500, you know, when you think about it, when you’re global, look at the total population.

Laurent: But no, I mean, it means that there’s room to grow, obviously, but Nike, the biggest at 300.

Laurent: The second one is, when you look at the total numbers, are we looking at global programs or national with very large population?

Laurent: That’s maybe where we can mention a couple of Indian programs.

Laurent: I’ll let you maybe mention a little bit of that.

Paula: Exactly, absolutely.

Paula: Yeah, I mean, everyone on the show knows that we’re great friends with the guys in Capillary Technologies and they are great supporters of the show.

Paula: And I attended their conference here in Dubai last year.

Paula: It was their inaugural one called Captivate.

Paula: And they had an amazing speaker on stage from Tata Digital.

Paula: And I vividly remembered him saying that they had over 100 million members.

Paula: And I was just blown away because I hadn’t heard of it before.

Paula: So I know the current, again, publicly available information for Tata New is over 110 million, again, based out of India.

Paula: And we also came across a second brand called Vishal Mart.

Paula: And I hope I’m saying that correctly, but again, also based in India, also in excess of 120 million, I believe is that figure.

Paula: Pardon me, 100 million, is that figure?

Paula: So two great Indian brands.

Paula: So thank you for the opportunity.

Paula: We did want to build in the global perspective.

Paula: And as I said, that’s the information we got so far from the Indian market.

Laurent: Yes, thank you.

Laurent: I think another big takeaway is, when I was with AT Kearney a while back, we were talking about the concept of loyalty families, which means some companies tend to work together, right?

Laurent: So, I guess the best example I have, again, you know, North America based, that would be United, working with Marriott, working with Avis or Avis Budget.

Laurent: And these are, you know, these programs are very well connected to each other.

Laurent: And so you can see that, you know, this is a family.

Laurent: It’s almost like a family, right?

Laurent: And so for us, when we look at that, we’re like, well, who is in what family?

Laurent: So, you know, who do we want to talk to?

Laurent: Which family do we want to try to join?

Laurent: Because a program that has over 100 million dollars has very little incentive to actually work with another one that is five million members, you know, or is just regional or even just national.

Laurent: So that’s kind of a big takeaway also from this research to look at how bigger programs attract, you know, other big programs, and they work together.

Paula: Indeed, yeah.

Paula: And one that I loved that terminology actually around the idea of families.

Paula: And we do, well, I certainly think about everyone who’s been on this show, whether it’s an individual like yourself or a program, we think of ourselves as a family.

Paula: So again, we want to make sure we have our family.

Paula: So of the list that you’ve published again, the one particularly that, well, there’s loads, of course, that we still haven’t had on the show.

Paula: Marriott Bonvoy is in third place on your research with 200 million members.

Paula: So we shout out if anybody from Marriott Bonvoy wants to come and talk loyalty on Loyalty TV, we’d love to have you.

Paula: So that was really cool.

Paula: And then IKEA was in 10th position with 110 million members as well.

Paula: So again, the top 10, for me, was just brilliant.

Paula: Not that surprising, but again, had to make sure we brought in the ones from different markets, but particularly McDonald’s.

Paula: I think there’s a lot of people perhaps haven’t yet realized that McDonald’s globally, and it is truly a global program, is now at 150 million members.

Paula: So I don’t know, did that one surprise you, Laurent?

Paula: Or were you already kind of aware how powerful McDonald’s loyalty is?

Laurent: I was half surprised by McDonald’s.

Laurent: I was actually more surprised by H&M or Nike, but half surprised by McDonald’s because many of the clubs are asking to work with McDonald’s.

Laurent: I think McDonald’s has a power of attraction that is very strong, and that is truly global, as you were saying.

Laurent: I would not have positioned them with that many members, but I certainly think they have the potential of growing much larger than this, that’s for sure.

Laurent: But Nike and H&M, for me, are, so you think about it, like a sports equipment retailer, right?

Laurent: And then H&M, I mean, personally, I don’t shop at H&M, so I have a little more hard time to relate to it.

Laurent: All of my wife and daughter, they go there all the time.

Laurent: But it’s the richness of their value proposition, I think, that makes them, and the consistency of how they deliver, that makes them truly standing out, in my opinion.

Laurent: If you look at Nike, they have a number of benefits that are not necessarily monetary benefits, points or cash back and things like that, that are attractive.

Laurent: Like they have wellness app that you can use, putting members together for a number of activities, previews, early access, and Enchilada has a lot of that too.

Laurent: I think this is a very rich value proposition that people tend to like.

Laurent: The numbers are there to prove it, in my opinion.

Paula: They totally are.

Paula: And I think what I also like about that, Laurent, as well, is we don’t have to rely on the same mechanics and the same levers that we’ve always talked about.

Paula: Because, let’s be honest, there’s often this perception that points can be quite old-fashioned, quite jaded.

Paula: So there are lots of different ways.

Paula: We’ve already talked about memberships, for example, as a very powerful proposition.

Paula: But to me, the likes of Nike are really tapping into, of course, a beautiful brand.

Paula: And I know it’s been up and down recently, but I do think they seem to be coming out the other side.

Paula: But I think they nailed the community piece.

Paula: And I’ve certainly interviewed IKEA on this show, as well, Laurent.

Paula: And they also tapped into community.

Paula: So I think when you find a passion point that people can connect around, then you can just build loyalty in lots of other ways.

Paula: Airlines, of course, always do it with the passion that we all have for travel.

Paula: But I love the variety, I guess, they came through in your research.

Laurent: Yes.

Laurent: And it was a great news for FIA because they could partner with many of these brands, basically.

Laurent: So that was a good news.

Laurent: But yes.

Laurent: Yes.

Paula: Indeed.

Paula: The one that I think looked a little lower than I would expect because it’s always come through for us, Laurent, as the industry’s favorite.

Paula: So when we ask so many loyalty managers, what’s your favorite program?

Paula: They often talk about Starbucks.

Paula: And I think Starbucks in the US has done an extraordinary job in terms of being such a mature proposition.

Paula: And I think they were much later, for example, even in this region.

Paula: And they didn’t launch with the same strength of the proposition, you know, partly to do with the tech stack, partly to do with how their business operations, I think, are set up.

Paula: But that for me was probably lower than I would have guessed without having looked at the research.

Paula: But I think they have a very clear focus on it now globally.

Paula: Yeah, just wondered if you had any thoughts on Starbucks.

Paula: Did it strike you as being lower than you might expect or about right?

Laurent: Yeah, I mean, I agree with your point.

Laurent: The number I found was 34.

Laurent: Hopefully, it’s the total number.

Laurent: It might be the engaged.

Laurent: No, no, the engaged.

Laurent: I would have to go back and verify.

Laurent: I was not necessarily surprised because I think they were late in the game.

Laurent: There are many other coffee shops now that also do a great job with loyalty, whether in the US or in Europe or other places.

Laurent: So maybe they started a bit late and now have a steep learning curve.

Laurent: I’m not sure.

Paula: Well, if we don’t have the exact right figure, please God, again, somebody will reach out to us from Starbucks and update us.

Paula: Because I do think that Starbucks are leaning very heavily into that proposition, as you said, Laurent.

Paula: So I know on the earnings calls, you know, they are talking about these numbers.

Paula: They’re talking about their digital strategy.

Paula: And Starbucks Rewards is obviously a key part of that.

Paula: And so, yes, I just think it’s the intelligence behind what they’ve done.

Paula: So I guess quantity and quality are probably different things.

Paula: So, yes, we’d be, I suppose, talking to people about, you know, Starbucks as an application, about the pre-ordering, about the digital payments.

Paula: So I guess we’d be talking about it in a very biased way because we all love to see something that’s, you know, reducing our costs and making it easier for our customers to the point of sale.

Laurent: Do you have a lot of Starbucks in where you are?

Paula: We do.

Paula: They’ve been through a tough time, Laurent, just with them, you know, geopolitical issues globally.

Paula: They have suffered, unfortunately.

Paula: So, yes, I feel like it might be kind of stabilizing right now, but yeah, the execution of the rewards program I know is something that they’re very passionate about.

Paula: And certainly here in the UAE, I believe they’ve also launched in Saudi Arabia, although I haven’t checked.

Paula: But there’s other markets, for example, that I know haven’t been done as yet.

Paula: I think it’s also in Kuwait, because they have a very strong, the parent company for this region has a very strong business as well in Kuwait.

Paula: So yeah, sometimes I think actually it makes the next logical point that you and I talked about last time, which is the challenges of loyalty programs at this level.

Paula: And I know again, you’ve got a very good comparison between a US business with the US member base and then a global business with all of the complexity.

Paula: So talk us through how did those two types of programs compare for you?

Laurent: Yeah, global is hard, you know, certainly it is hard because there are so many things, so many exceptions that you have to manage.

Laurent: I’ll give you some examples.

Laurent: Data privacy is a big one.

Laurent: If you know, in every country that you operate, you might have a different data privacy law.

Laurent: And that influences a lot on how you design the customer experience for redemption, for acquisition of points and the data you can share, where you store it.

Laurent: So certainly, data privacy is a big one.

Laurent: Taxes, VAT, income tax, obviously in different countries.

Laurent: Currencies, languages.

Laurent: So it is really, we built at FIA, we were lucky to have a platform that we could use on a global basis.

Laurent: But still, building a program with all these challenges is hard.

Laurent: But you do it once for many clubs, you know.

Laurent: So for companies, you know, when a company goes global from one, their home market and go global, I think this is really something that you have to take into account for, you know, investment purposes, both of money and time.

Laurent: And, you know, you got to brush up your legal jargon because you will talk to a lot of lawyers to be able to enter these different markets.

Paula: Yeah, and honestly, like even for us as a B2B brand, we would often be dealing with every single regional office in four or five different parts of the world in order to negotiate or agree or plan even marketing campaigns.

Paula: So I totally agree that we’re all keen to have, you know, one global brand, one global proposition, but the fact of life is that there are too many jurisdictions and decision makers, I guess, in different parts of the world.

Paula: So I know you had a lot of work to do.

Paula: I know you had a lot of success as well.

Paula: So I don’t want to, I don’t want to.

Paula: Yeah, exactly.

Laurent: What’s interesting, Paula, is you’ve interviewed many, what I call Loyalty Technology Companies.

Laurent: You had Collinson yesterday and Antavo in the past and a few others.

Laurent: And I think they might provide a shortcut to all these difficulties because they have done it.

Laurent: You know, they operate programs for very large global companies, whether they’re banks or travel companies, airlines, etc.

Laurent: So they already have that knowledge.

Laurent: And I think that’s definitely a competitive advantage that they have for any business that wants to go global.

Paula: 100%.

Paula: Yeah, it’s very good advice, Laurent.

Paula: And I certainly know when people are going through RFPs that there is a criteria for a lot of brands to say, what is your global experience of operating in multiple markets?

Paula: And that would absolutely be a requirement for lots of industries to make sure that there is a precedent, so that somebody is not doing that for the first time.

Paula: So in 2025, as we are today, you really need somebody who’s been there, done that, so that you can absolutely say, great, this tech works in 20 countries, you know, whether it’s the US, UK or whatever, at least you have to have the main markets covered off.

Paula: So not every tech company can do that.

Paula: So it’s a point.

Paula: Yeah, brilliant.

Paula: So just close us off then, Laurent, with them, you know, for FIA in the end, as you said, you did your research, 90 million, so, you know, literally playing with the big boys.

Paula: You did manage to negotiate some big global partnerships.

Paula: I think they’re confidential.

Paula: You probably can’t talk through who they are, but give us a sense of what you managed to get at least launched.

Paula: I know you’ve handed over the reins now to a new scaling up team who’s taken over, but you were the general manager.

Paula: So anything you can share that you were particularly proud of?

Laurent: Yes, I mean, the ability to go from an idea to a business, you know, back to the Garber discussion, is certainly something I’m very proud of.

Laurent: It takes time to go global.

Laurent: It takes time to also work in a federation of clubs, because when you present your quarterly results or half your results, you go in front of 120 countries.

Laurent: It’s more like going to the United Nations and talk about your start-up than, you know, going to a board meeting.

Laurent: So that in itself, I think, is an achievement.

Laurent: To your point, you know, I passed the baton to the team that I built there.

Laurent: They are great and they are moving things forward.

Laurent: When I left, we had about 15 clubs and 20 million active members on the platform.

Laurent: And on the program, and about 20 partners, most of them global partners, brand names that you would recognize.

Laurent: So, you know, it is an experience that I’m waiting to restart elsewhere.

Laurent: It’s really something that I like, build new programs and new organizations.

Laurent: This is actually what my consultancy does.

Laurent: And, you know, I wish good luck to FIA.

Laurent: I’m still in touch with them, obviously.

Laurent: And I think it will be a very successful program.

Paula: Oh, 100%.

Paula: No question about it.

Paula: You’ve left it in amazing shape.

Paula: I know they were very sad to see you go.

Paula: But tell us a bit then about your consulting firm, about Aramis Advisors, the kind of work that you’re doing now.

Paula: I know you do have a couple of projects, but I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of people listening here today who’d be curious to connect with you.

Paula: So tell us a bit more about your own business.

Laurent: Sure, my pleasure.

Laurent: So we focus on building new revenues for organizations, oftentimes leveraging already existing assets that might not be well-exploited, whether it’s intellectual capital or access or network or past experiences.

Laurent: Loyalty is a big part of that, but not only.

Laurent: We build new products and services, digital products and services in particular.

Laurent: We are based in Washington, DC.

Laurent: We have consultants both in the US and in Europe.

Laurent: All our consultants are very experienced professionals who have worked in management consulting, have been entrepreneurs, so have built, actually, things, and have had roles in corporate environments, so they understand the politics of working with large organizations.

Laurent: And so we do work in the health care, financial services, travel and tourism and membership organizations.

Laurent: These are the four key areas where we are typically engaged.

Paula: Amazing.

Paula: Yeah.

Paula: No, thank you for that.

Paula: And I think it’s music to the ears of anyone listening to this show, of course, watching to identify potential new revenue streams, because we’re always hearing about that pressure point of profitability.

Paula: And so absolutely, it’s a key focus.

Paula: So yeah, so looking forward to hear more about that.

Paula: Yeah.

Laurent: Yeah, I’m sorry to interrupt.

Laurent: And we also not only identify, but we come as fractional executives to actually build, you know, the recommendation.

Paula: Okay.

Paula: Okay.

Laurent: Which is what I’ve done at FIA.

Paula: Of course.

Paula: The full go-to-market strategy, getting it built, getting it live, recruiting the team and then exiting, so the business can get on and deliver.

Paula: Amazing.

Laurent: Exactly.

Laurent: Yes.

Paula: Super duper.

Paula: Well, listen, from my perspective, as I said, I loved the fact that she worked up The Largest Global Loyalty Programs as two simple slides, which are available.

Paula: So if anybody does want them, it’s very easy.

Paula: You just need to drop me an e-mail.

Paula: So my e-mail is fairly straightforward.

Paula: It’s paula at letstalkloyalty.com.

Paula: With Laurent’s permission, we’re going to send you those slides.

Paula: I’ll copy him as well, just so that you have his contact details.

Paula: And we’ve done that a couple of times before.

Paula: We tend to get a great reaction because people want to see, are they on the slides or should they be on the slides?

Paula: But if not, who’s there?

Paula: So we’ll make sure, of course, in the show notes to give those instructions for anybody else who might need them.

Laurent: Absolutely.

Laurent: And again, we’re very much open to gathering information we could not find publicly and to improve the overall rankings to share with everyone.

Paula: Indeed.

Paula: We can build the top 100 list the next time now.

Paula: So you’re giving yourself loads of work.

Paula: Why not?

Paula: Why not?

Paula: Listen, Laurent, I’ve asked all the questions.

Paula: I think we’ve covered all of the key topics from my side for today.

Paula: Was there anything else that you wanted to mention before we wrap up?

Laurent: I’m really fascinated these days by, and you have discussed that to a large extent, by how AI can really change the face of loyalty.

Laurent: There are so many applications, so even for global programs, it’s probably an opportunity to streamline faster or build faster using AI tools.

Laurent: And because I think most people talk about AI in the context of personalization or in the context of maybe helping members of a loyalty program get better benefits.

Laurent: You is using an AI agent, for example, to maximize either your points or minimize your spend for the dream trip or the trip on your bucket list is really interesting.

Laurent: But I think AI applications are also in operations, operating a loyalty program.

Laurent: And that is a topic of interest to me.

Paula: So, okay, absolutely.

Paula: Indeed, we could do a whole separate show on that because there is so much there.

Paula: And you’re absolutely right, like, I can’t wait for some AI agent to come and say, okay, well, you might only have a small amount of points, but here’s the destinations you can go to rather than me going in and having to say, can I go home?

Paula: Can I go there?

Paula: Or whatever.

Paula: So you’re right.

Paula: It’s a big change and a big shift coming for all of us, which is super exciting.

Paula: So on that note, I just want to say again, thank you for listening to the show, first of all, Laurent, and thank you for reaching out on LinkedIn.

Paula: I’d encourage anybody else who does want to chat with us here on the show.

Paula: We love to hear from people who listen and it can lead to great things, which it certainly did for me in this occasion.

Paula: So I want to say a huge thank you to Laurent Guinand, founder and CEO of Aramis Advisors LLC.

Paula: Thank you so much from Let’s Talk Loyalty and Loyalty TV.

Laurent: Thank you very much, Paula.

Laurent: It was a pleasure to be with you here today.

Paula: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketer Group, publisher of The Wise Marketer, the premier digital customer loyalty marketing resource for industry relevant news, insights and research.

Paula: Wise Marketer Group also offers loyalty education and training globally through its Loyalty Academy, which has certified nearly 900 marketers and executives in 49 countries as certified loyalty marketing professionals.

Paula: For global coverage of customer engagement and loyalty, check out thewisemarketer.com and become a wiser marketer or subscriber.

Paula: Learn more about global loyalty education for individuals or corporate training programs at loyaltyacademy.org.

Paula: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty.

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