Paula: Welcome to Let’s Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I’m Paula Thomas, the Founder and CEO of Let’s Talk Loyalty and also now Loyalty TV. Today’s episode is hosted by Carly Neubauer, Co-founder and Director of Elevate Loyalty and Pay2Elevate an Australian based company specializing in loyalty and incentive services, global rewards and digital payment technology.
If you work in loyalty marketing, you can watch our latest video interviews every Thursday on www.loyalty.tv. And of course, you can also listen to Let’s Talk Loyalty every Tuesday, every Wednesday and every Thursday to learn the latest ideas from loyalty experts around the world.
Carly: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Let’s Talk Loyalty. My name is Carly Neubauer. I’m the Co-founder and sirector of Elevate Loyalty, a loyalty and incentive services company specializing in global rewards and digital payment technology. I’m excited to be introducing Eden Caceda, Retention and Loyalty Manager of HCF Australia. With a true passion for loyalty partnerships and driving member engagement, Eden’s role focuses on bringing the Thank You program to life for members across Australia.
With an imminent program evolution to be launched to the market, please enjoy the conversation with Eden Caceda.
Hi, Eden, and a big welcome.
Eden: Thank you so much for having me.
Carly: Thanks for being here today. And I appreciate you chatting with me. We are going to discuss your current loyalty program and all things loyalty in Australia, but it is an exciting time for you and the team as you’re not far off launching the next evolution of the program. So we are all watching this space.
But before we go any further, let’s start with a question we always begin with. What is your favorite loyalty program?
Eden: I think I, like many other Australians, are a devout Everyday Rewards Woolworths user. It’s a program that is really easy to engage with, really easily to collect points on, and really easy to be rewarded by. And it’s something where I happen to see scan every time I do my grocery shopping, whether that be every few days, every week. So it’s one that’s really easy to utilize and feel rewarded by.
Carly: I love this. And it’s really is a popular favorite loyalty program. That is for sure. As a loyalty expert yourself, what’s your favorite part or why do you think this one stands out so much?
Eden: I think it’s just one that’s so easy for an Everyday user. It’s one where. A member of the street, you know, a customer who may come regularly or not so regularly can easily scan. It’s something that’s part of an Everyday purchase. It’s easy to see those points of crewing in the app or online. And also there’s that element of that surprise and delight when you eventually collected enough points and you’re at the till already. You’ve already scanned everything and they ask if you’d like to utilize that reward. It’s just a really seamless, easy way to redeem those rewards. And it’s just one that’s so easy to keep coming back to.
Carly: Oh, so true. It’s always lovely if the person at the checkout says, Oh, by the way, would you like to redeem X amount of dollars? And you didn’t even know you had it.
Eden: Exactly.
Carly: Lovely experience. Lovely experience. So let’s kick off. Tell us a bit about the company you work for and your loyalty program.
Eden: I work at HCF, which is Australia’s largest not for profit health fund. And the loyalty program here at HCF is called Thank You. And it was really developed to give an opportunity for our members to save more and feel more reward and recognition from HCF all over. So, with our members, we obviously want them to get a lot of value from their health cover. However, we, in addition to that, give them access to a range of exclusive offers, discounted gift cards, and benefits that is designed to thank our members for choosing us and for sticking with us.
Carly: Now, this program started in 2017, if I’m not mistaken. So how did you kick off? How was the program first initiated in Australia?
Eden: It was as part of the innovation team at the time, and it was kicked off as something that would supplement and help us with particularly a round of attention.
So it was looking at how can we make our members feel rewarded and how, so how can we give them additional access and benefits on top of that? So it was born from really that 10 year position. So we have a 10 year tiered loyal system. So depending on how long you’ve been with us, there are additional benefits and rewards at those different levels.
And it was something that with that basis, we went out to a number of third party partners. We also have internal products too, and looked at what we could do to help our members with their value and affordability concerns, but also make those members who’ve been with us for a long time feel rewarded and feel happy and proud to be with HCF.
Carly: Tell us a little bit about some of the partners that you either have had or still have on the program that are popular with your members.
Eden: We have a range of different partners. Obviously, our most utilized ones are the likes of Woolworths and Coles. Event cinemas is actually our most used first time reward for our members. Apple gift cards, HelloFresh, Booking.com, we have a range across a number of different verticals, but with a real focus in the retail area. I think that’s just been by nature of easy to onboard and also just easy for our members to redeem and easy for them to save on an Everyday purchase.
Carly: And how are you looking members per month? What’s the growth looking like for this program at the moment?
Eden: Yeah we have a pretty stable base. So we have a lot of people who love to utilize the program already month by month, but we do have a few initiatives where we are trying to bring in new members to utilize the program and that is seeing a really strong conversion rate.
So I’m not sure the exact figure I can provide, but it is sort of around that 10 percent of conversion of new members. So we’re seeing that growth month by month, and it’s something, obviously, we’re looking at focusing on going forward, you know, providing that reward for our ongoing members. And that’s saving for our members being with us for so long, but also the new members coming through, how can we get them involved with the program and ultimately how can we make them stickier?
Carly: And you’ve discussed with me previously around your C-level support and how that has played out through the program and the success of the program. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Eden: Yeah, our CEO, Sheena Jack, our current CEO was heavily involved with starting the loyalty program. So has a real interest in obviously seeing the loyalty program develop and evolve and still also pertain to its original founding, which was that supporting a value and affordability for our members. So because we’ve had such great involvement. But the CEO over the years, we have a lot of support within the team. And when we are looking to try new and innovative things, there’s a lot of support from themselves and also with the other C suite level.
Carly: Yeah. And I think whenever we hear around loyalty programs and we’ve definitely had on Let’s Talk Loyalty guests in the past, talk about the fact that when you’re getting that C level support or senior management support can be so effective with the ongoing rollout and an implementation of any program, but success of the program over time as well.
One thing I really love about HCF is your ability for your internal cross sell. How does that look for you?
Eden: So HCF have a number of other insurance products that we provide obviously to the general public. So we have travel insurance, pet insurance and recently launched home and car insurance. So these are products that a member of the street can easily take out. They don’t have to be a member with HCF.
However, where we thought about integrating it a little bit more with the loyalty program was saying, these members already with HCF, why wouldn’t they utilize them? Why wouldn’t they take advantage of these products that we offer in these other verticals? And so from that, the conversation really turned to what can we do to get those members more interested? And so we have a discounted offering for our current HCF members. Quite a hefty discount for them to take out these other products.
So obviously we’re tying them more into the ecosystem. We’re making them stickier by having them take out travel insurance and their pet insurance and they have the health insurance with us. So it’s also an opportunity for us to say, you know, you’ve saved an extra amount by being an HCF member with us. Cause you get this additional discounts, but also they become more lifelong users of HCF and generally more satisfied with their cover.
Carly: Absolutely. And no doubt, obviously, they’re going to get the benefit of the different premiums whether it’s financial or reward support through the program as well.
Now, not that anyone really wants to go back and discuss it in too much depth, but 2020 to 2022 was probably a challenging time, especially in the insurance space. Do you want to tell us a little bit of about that time for HCF specifically in the program?
Eden: For sure. So obviously the program started in 2017 and there were a few years of building it up to where it has and is today.
So connecting with partners, improving communication methods and really when it came to 2020. I think there was the understanding that it was time to evaluate a little bit more, think about what the future looks like for the program, and obviously we know what happened that year. Ultimately that actually helped improve engagement and redemptions of Thank You.
I think a lot of people had been driven more to the digital purchasing realm, obviously, since we couldn’t go out and visit our shops and buy that way. And so there was actually huge increase in take up in that year. So, and that, that continued obviously the next few years as well, where there was a lot of awareness amongst our members that this was an offering that we provided. And simply because of the easy way to transact, that’s where we ended up engaging a lot of them.
So it was also just a really good opportunity to get the name out there a little bit more around HCF membership, and also just demonstrate that we were there at those additional times of need. Of course, we also had a give back system post COVID where premiums that weren’t utilized went back to our members. So that also kind of came under a little bit more of the Thank You banner as a way to demonstrate loyalty and retention.
Carly: Oh, that’s, it’s a really lovely touch and I’m sure members would have very much appreciated that. During that time, you’ve just talked about that accelerated growth, any particular products or rewards or benefits that were more popular in the digital space?
Eden: I think it’s expected, obviously, groceries were still continuing to be something that was growing quite significantly, particularly as people could shop online and get things delivered, et cetera, but just general verticals around retail, obviously skyrocketed. Home and living was another area that really grew. Naturally, there was a less focus on travel, but there was focus on more localized, you know, attractions and adventures. And it was really, the whole program really just benefited significantly from that, like I said, around awareness, but also around those redemptions, people were really Looking to their computers and to their phones to find savings through digital methods. And Thank You was there for our members at that time.
Carly: Oh, that’s awesome to hear as well. And the name definitely makes sense in this context.
Eden: Yes.
Carly: So then let’s jump forward slightly. You joined HCF, if I’m correct, in 2022?
Eden: Yes.
Carly: Excellent. And how do things go from this point forward? What are we looking at in the program at the moment?
Eden: Yeah, I think at that point in 2022, a lot of the conversation was around what can we do to take thank you to the next level. We, you know, we have a lot of members, however, not a lot of members actually utilizing the loyalty side of the program, the part of the program where people buy discounted gift cards and take on those offers.
So what we were thinking was how can we grow within the current audience we have, but also how can we be aware of, you know, the people who are coming into health insurance monthly. So really began to work with our marketing team on devising a few initiatives that we could do to grow engagement across those specific audiences, but also just generally bring thank you back into the consciousness of the HCF user, remind them of the value and how it aligns with our specific goals for our members.
And yeah, and really just began to rejig a lot of the communications as well. So it’s quite a big project from 2022 to now. Slowly be rolling out things in a way that’s not disruptive to our members, but makes them feel like we’re taking on their feedback and acknowledging, you know, that things have changed also in the market since 2017. And so we’ve been really successful. And in fact, 2023 was our most successful year yet of the program.
Carly: Amazing. Congratulations. That’s awesome.
Eden: Thank you.
Carly: In regards to the cost of living. Now that we’ve seen the switch in those time periods, we’ve discussed, we’ve had the COVID style timeframe, and now we’re talking since you’ve joined as well, 2022, how are you seeing people utilize these benefits and accessing these digital products that they have available to them? When we overlay the cost of living crisis?
Eden: I think during the pandemic, the trends we saw really was a lot of purchases across a number of verticals. And I think what we’re seeing now is really a restrain where there’s not as many purchases happening, but it is happening in areas where people want to feel that fun or they want to feel that it’s something above and beyond what they’re taking on.
So naturally, groceries is still continuing to be at our top most utilized verticals. However, I would also say that entertainment is really grown a lot. So as I mentioned, our cinema tickets are one of our most utilized for first time users. So fast, it says a lot. It says that when people are first coming to the loyalty program, this is a fact, this is an area that they’re interested in.
And this is something where they may, it may not be, you know, your everyday purchase, you know, it may not be something where you’re calculating a grocery bill every week and thinking where you can make savings, but it’s something where when members log in, they see something, they think, I want to go to the movies. I want to save on that. And that’s what they purchase. So we’re seeing sort of growth around more of those verticals of entertainment.
Retail has obviously reduced a little bit, but also AOV has remained consistent. So maybe people are buying less, but by more high quality or, you know, inflation is also impacted there. So there’s a lot of minor changes, nothing too drastic, but minor changes are definitely representative of the change that’s happening right now in, in many people’s financial circumstances.
Carly: Yeah. And as you said, it may not be dramatic changes as such, but you’re obviously able to track and see the shifts and what’s happening in your member base. Are there any other areas of sort of that fine tuning that you’re focusing on at the moment as well?
Eden: We recently launched a partnership with booking.com. So that was one that our members were very excited about. And we’re really just fine tuning How can we bring together our various partners, particularly noting that we also have travel insurance. So how can we bring together and promote travel holistically, saying that there’s discounts available on shopping through booking.com. Obviously there’s a discount available with taking out HCF travel insurance.
And we have a number of other travel products too. So how can we refine that messaging be more holistic because when a member is taking out you know, travel insurance or when they’re buying a travel product, they’re obviously thinking about all these different things to think about the flights and the accommodation and the insurance and et cetera. So how can we be there for them at that moment where we’re really fine tuning that.
But also just generally fine tuning what it means to redeem really and looking at breaking down those points of friction for our members that may be why they’re not redeeming at all or why they’re redeeming not as many times as many of our other high users. So that’s really what the focus is for us.
Carly: And it sounds like when you’re discussing these areas of fine tuning and levels of improvement as well, you do utilize the data within your program. And I guess you’ve got a number of years behind you of the data and information around your members. Can you tell us a bit more about how you’re using that or what’s the best way you can use that within your style of program?
Eden: Yeah, to be honest, we have still a way to go with our integration of our data from our other products into Thank You and the loyalty program. We obviously have very high level understanding In terms of the level of health cover they’ve taken out, if they’re taking out pet insurance, naturally they have a pet. You know how many times they take out travel insurances. I mean, they’re frequent traveler only once every few years. So we do have these data points and we’re trying to bring them together more holistically. But it’s something where we’re still very surface level for us. We really do look at the redemptions across the board.
You know, how many redemptions is someone making and what is the value of that redemption and really just targeting accordingly. So really looking at a bit more segmentation, particularly around the education piece. We know we don’t have to explain to a high use of the program, what we do or how much they can save or what the benefits are. They’re already actively using it. So using that messaging more towards new people of, people who’ve never redeemed before. And for those members who utilize, you know, very frequently every month, those are the ones where we can really go at them more with more competitive options and things that may be more different and exciting from what they’re usually using.
Carly: It does sound like you’re able to use a really great level of segmentation and or personalization in your comms. Can you tell us a bit more around that? Because the fact that you’ve even been able to say, Hey we talk to an experienced user in a way that we know they know how to use this program. That’s, it’s really great differentiation in the comms.
Eden: For sure. So when it comes to segmentation, obviously we have a lot of information around members and their different cover level types. So we have single couple and family. And so we do that very high level segmentation already there, where it comes to singles, it comes to families, you know, school holidays and the impacts of that. And just the different lifestyle imagery and content. That’s something we use across the board when it comes to our communications.
But also when it comes to us building out a, you know, recency, frequency, monetary model, that’s something that we can work with the data we have, understand a little bit more around those members who are utilizing a lot and there’s ones who are dormant or, you know, lower on the scale and then be able to tail the communication accordingly.
So it’s a very intersectional approach because, you know, the most used people may be those with families, but also there may be the least using cohort. So we need to think really carefully around how we communicate it. And there can be a lot of different communication styles and content types out there, but it’s something where we’re still fine tuning it and trying to improve it a little bit more. But we’re very happy with where it is right now.
Carly: As you should be. And obviously, as we said, you’ve been in market now for, since 2017 and with an upcoming evolution, which we will all be excited to see when that goes live in market as well.
So let’s rewind for a little bit and go back to you. Tell us a little bit about your background and your story. How did you end up in the loyalty industry?
Eden: It’s a bit of a wayward, interesting one. I actually started out at university wanting to be a journalist. So a real writing background did spend a few years as a freelancer, you know, writing where I could and finding opportunities, obviously it’s very competitive, challenging space to, to find work in.
And so from there, I actually moved more or less over into marketing and communication. So corporate comms, it was really a good opportunity for me to kind of use my writing ability and skills. And so really started that in 2016, more general marketing, however, really cut my teeth at the Law Society of New South Wales in 2018 with their loyalty program, which was called Member Connections and it was a member benefits program similar to what we have here at Thank You.
So really an opportunity for me to work directly with third party partners, me to look around the marketing of this loyalty program. That, again, was secondary to to the key product, obviously being you’re a lawyer and you need to get your practicing certificate with the law society, be a member with us, and how can we be part of that journey with you and find you this additional savings?
And from there, you know, it was really just thrust into this space of loyalty. It’s been such a whirlwind, but it’s been great. And I really feel that at each stage of my career, both before being in loyalty and since I’ve learned so much around communications and marketing and just what makes a loyalty program really sing.
Carly: Now I’ve had the benefit of hearing this story before, so I am going to bring you back to this where we discussed the way you found out this true value of an element of a loyalty program was specifically when you were at the Law Society, please tell us about that experience there. And I think it’d be really interesting for everybody here.
Eden: Absolutely. It’s one of my favorite stories that I bring up quite frequently, and I really did learn so much there. The Law Society of New South Wales had a smaller amount of partners and a small amount of offers that they were providing to members. They weren’t working with an external provider on gift cards and a lot of that was being managed directly.
And one historical partnership that had been in for quite some time was between the Law Society of New South Wales and American Express. And as part of this benefit, members would not have to pay an annual fee they would obviously get preferential rates, et cetera. But the main thing that you know, I ended up making a bit of a fuss was that there was a sticker on the American Express card that members got that had the Law Society logo on it, similar to what is currently offered with CPA and accountants on American Express deals.
And so that was one thing where it was absolutely huge amongst our members. It was something where the penetration was unbelievable of our members who were members of the Law Society, had their practicing certificates and decided to take out this card with this benefits and this sticker was huge.
Obviously when I was there at the time, we were still seeing a few repercussions of the Royal commission into banking. And as part of that, a lot of the discussions were around, you know, the importance of separating these banking and finance from these other products and deals and et cetera, et cetera. And so ultimately American Express ended up we ended up terminating the agreement with them mutually. And so as part of that, obviously we had to communicate to our members that there would no longer be offering this, you know, discount these benefits would be going. And we of course tried to migrate them over to a new partner that we had sort of in the wings.
Everything seemed like a fine transition program. The new offering was equally, if not almost as good as the offering that we already had. However, one thing that would be missing from this new offering was the application of that little sticker on the credit card. And so when it came to that transition, the number of complaints that we got around the fact that this new card would not have this logo on it, was actually astronomical.
I don’t think we had more people ever contact us ever about you know, the loyalty program or the benefits, but a lot of people were very upset about this card not saying or having the Law Society logo on there. And I was involved obviously with member complaints around the program. And a lot of people were quite upset with the fact that they said people wouldn’t see or, you know, at a table or when they utilize that card, people wouldn’t see and know they were a lawyer because a new card wouldn’t have the logo on there saying that they’re a member of our society.
And so it was just such a fascinating way where, you know, you know, we worked so hard to try and get an equal offer to try and get something that was really, you know, interesting, compelling and valuable monetarily to members. But really in the end, so many of the members who used it, it was almost a benefit that we couldn’t buy.
It was something, it was a status symbol and a position you know, quote unquote in society that the money couldn’t buy necessarily. And so when that was taken away from them, that was really for them, the biggest benefit loss, rather than not paying an annual fee, rather than getting preferential rates for them. It was that acknowledgement that they were a lawyer.
And it was a really fascinating, like learning curve just to see that you know, this is not something that we took into consideration when we were looking at these offers. We weren’t thinking we need to make sure we get a card that has the logo on it. Otherwise people won’t know they’re a lawyer. And I think he really just spoke to, you know, perhaps a little bit to the people in that profession, but also just into what some people expect from their loyalty program and expect from their benefits. And again, some of these things you simply can’t buy.
Carly: Well, I love this learning as well that, and you really highlighted so many elements of loyalty psychology here in this conversation. But the fact that it was the social status, it was that recognition piece that was a clear priority for this member base. And even when price point or discount was the same, the part that really mattered was that recognition and the logo. So, it goes to show there’s so much that we need to do to understand members, to really know the right drivers.
Eden: Yeah. The other really interesting thing is obviously it was such a benefit that was used by a lot of members. And so when we ended up losing them, that actually left a big hole of engagement in our membership base. So that for me was also a lesson going forward where I now always preach diversification of partnerships and, you know, not having all your eggs in one basket.
Sure, so many of our members loved this American Express offering and they took it on. But no loyalty program should operate like that. No one should have just one that they focus on and one that they’re, you know, is driving that engagement because there’s any challenges or any risks, you know, and you lose that is a huge amount of your base.
So now everywhere I’ve gone since then, I’ve always preached us having. You know, obviously strong offers but not putting all our eggs in one basket and having one key offer that members love, because if anything goes wrong there, you know, there’s a lot of problems.
Carly: Nothing like a hard learning lesson to make sure future programs are protected. So let’s talk a little bit about your thoughts, especially around the industry. Because you have worked in a few different places and spaces in loyalty, affiliate networks, and corporate partnerships as well. I’d love to hear your opinion. If I say, you know, what do you see as some of the best practices? What are the things you love about the loyalty industry and things that you see in market that you really rate?
Eden: One is, It’s the true definition of a partnership. I think that in a variety of places I’ve worked in other spaces, it can be very transactional. It can be very much, I am the publisher, I am the loyalty program, you are the retailer, you know, you give me things and, you know, I’m growing your base. So you give me X, Y, Z. And I think really best practice is looking past our transactional relationship and thinking about it is a partnership. It needs to be two way.
And I remember when I was in law society, we developed a prospectus and there was a slide in that prospectus that actually spoke to what we were doing for our partners.
You know, it wasn’t just you give us an offer, we’ll send people your way, blah, blah, blah. But it was really around how can we help you? You know, what information can we give you or how can we help you succeed as well? It’s not just take it, take it. It’s, you know, a mutual beneficial relationship. And I think that for me has been best practices that when it comes to these partnership arrangements and when it comes to developing those offers.
It’s not just, you know, I’ll take the highest offer. If you, if someone gives me 10 percent off at XYZ, but another person gives you 20%, I’ll take that. It also needs to be around, what can you do for them? What is that, you know, that partnership piece? And often it can be bigger than just this loyalty program, you know, even now at HCF, you know, our members have benefits with HelloFresh, but now we actually actively work with HelloFresh to provide some of their members with benefits for us.
So, you know, it’s something where if you’re on both sides of that member customer, you know, engagement, you are seeing a benefit two way. It’s not just take, even for them. So for us, it’s, that, and for me, that’s been something that’s really taken through and one that I see as best practice.
Carly: Well, this same philosophy really applies to loyalty programs, right? If it’s, is it loyalty from the company or the business to the member and is it member loyalty back to their company and the business? So it is a give and take in a real partnership slash loyal relationship, right?
Eden: Absolutely.
Carly: Now flip it to the other end. The bad, the ugly, anything that you see or experience in the industry that you think, hey, that probably needs to improve over the next few years, or I’d like to see some improvement there.
Eden: I think obviously generally transparency, you know, in, in such an environment when there has to be a lot of negotiation and discussion, and it is becoming, you know, a market where it’s a little bit more saturated. I think that when it comes to the transparency and openness, that’s something that a lot of people really value.
And so I think that’s something that is improving a little bit within the space, but I think that can be really challenging and, you know, there can be a lot of cannibalization and competitiveness around these sort of arrangements, which I don’t think really benefits. You know, the end user, the end customer in any real way.
I think the reality is that every day people of society are users of multiple loyalty programs, whether they realize it or not. And I think that, you know, being in our space, which is so attuned to marketing and attuned to loyalty, we think, no, this person is either a Woolworths user or a Coles user, but the reality is many people just sway between both and on occasion they’ll scan their loyalty card at one and occasion at another.
And there’s not always that brand affinity that I think many of us really think quite a lot about. So I think that the, yeah, the bad of that is being very siloed in our thinking and really just thinking one, one customer out there is not wedded to one loyalty program. And also once that person has them, it’s not a lost cause either. They can operate across multiple programs.
Carly: Totally. Absolutely. And sometimes people are shopping for convenience and location and their membership may be part of that decision, but not the only driver as loyalty practitioners, we’re all trying to get to the top of that decision making now, of course. But we’re not always the first priority.
If we think about your career as well and where you’ve been so far starting out, obviously studying journalism and all the way through to the next evolution at HCF, what would you say would be one of the most important lessons you’ve learned in your career so far?
Eden: I think that it’s still, communication is the most important thing, I have to say. I have, you know, worked with a number of people who are, that have very strong communication styles or, you know, really struggle to relate or communicate value to someone. And I think that has been, you know, a real thing that’s held a lot of people back.
So I think that communication is really the piece of the puzzle there. It’s one where you know, my writing background and my ability to think strategically around communications and what is, you know, appealing, what answers people’s questions before they even realize they have that as a question, that for me, being able to take that from that early stage all the way through, I think has really helped me when it comes to, looking at the partners that we’re bringing on board, but also communicating those partnerships to our members.
That for me has been really key throughout. And I think that without that, you know, strong communication methods and strong ability to just get the point across and get the value across. If you don’t have that, you’ll really miss it. You can have the best loyalty program in the world, but if you don’t have that part, you’re not going to be able to connect with those, your members and customers.
Carly: Well, that’s a really good segue as well. I wanted to ask you, how would you define success? So obviously communication is such an essential part of that, but what would you define as success? Whether it’s career, whether it’s program related, what’s important to you?
Eden: I think for me to see success in loyalty program, it’s around engagement. It’s around those touch points, thinking, you know, when I’m in the store, when I’m shopping, when I’m about to do X, Y, Z, am I front of mind or am I not even a consideration? You know, is the, you know, self using a machine at the supermarket reminding me to, to swipe my card and is it reminding me I have X amount of dollars in there for utilization when I’m going into a fast food store and someone’s asking me if I’m a member. You know, they’re actively asking, or is the onus on me to recall and think about that.
And also, I think the other challenge is when, you know, I don’t even carry a wallet anymore, or my cards on my phone. So, you know, when you want a card, I don’t have a card on me. Is there a way to search it up? And what’s the sort of ease of accessability for a member? Those for me is all the different things where if that’s really seamless, you should have excellent engagement. And that’s why for me, engagement is the key to success in loyalty program. If you have, you know, five, five members who are spending millions with you, obviously financially it’s quite successful, but for me, are you serving those five customers or are you actually serving, meant to be serving your entire base?
And I think that’s why, for me, that engagement is really important that when a member is thinking about you, when they’re using you at those key milestones, and when, you know, other people, they mention it to other people and when you’re seeing that repeat utilization, that for me is where the success is.
Carly: This is so true as well. And that’s seamless. And you even mentioned it earlier as well, is that removing friction from a program is how we doing that in a holistic approach across any kind of loyalty program. In your case, it’s insurance and others. What sort of advice or what’s something you might tell someone or advice who was starting out in the industry and who are new to loyalty?
Eden: I think now, obviously, there’s a lot more loyalty programs out there, a lot more loyalty providers, and I think it can be quite easy, again, to be siloed into the world of loyalty and to just come at it from that marketing perspective, like, you know, of course, a member of XYZ only thinks about my company at all times. That’s not true at all.
And I think, my advice would be for early entrants to the industry is to look at not just the loyalty program, but look at all sorts of programs. Look at all sorts of businesses. Some programs have a loyalty program without even looking like one.
I mean, I read an essay a few years ago around Omez and the fact that Omez have a loyalty program, but it’s not one that you can see. The reward is that you can obviously buy a very expensive handbag or product from them that is withheld from you until you spend a certain amount, but that is the loyalty program. So it’s not simply writing into Google loyalty program and researching what’s out there. There are other forms of loyalty and engagement and retention that don’t, aren’t strictly loyalty programs, but the values they have in the principles of which they’re functioning very much aligned.
So, so it’s not just thinking about loyalty. It’s getting exposure to a number of different industries, a number of different ways of working and how customer engagement is happening. I think that really helps you sort of take it to the next level and not just think points and cash back. And, you know, this is just how it works really thinking outside the box and thinking more about the customer as well.
Carly: I think what you touched on there is so important as well and probably an ongoing common debate in loyalties. Do we need a specific structured loyalty program that says, as you said, see as all points to then be defined as loyalty, or is it a percentage of a consumer’s mindshare and how much they may be interacting in and engaging in varied ways? Is that loyalty? And is that a loyalty program as such as well? So, that one probably needs its own a few hours just sort of that topic, I imagine.
Eden: Absolutely. And in my role at HCF as well, I am the loyalty and retention manager. So, you know, loyalty, what we’ve discussed today is one part of my role, which is how a member saving and how are we supporting, you know, the value and affordability concerns.
But the other piece of attention is how we’re actually keeping our members on. And, you know, that’s things like surprise and delight. That’s things like, you know, service recovery and errors mistake made by both customer and ourselves. You know, how do we repair that relationship? How do we build that trust again?
And I think that’s something to where If you just looked objectively at that side, you wouldn’t think that’s a loyalty program. You wouldn’t think that, you know, just because I’ve been here for 10 years and I’ve had an issue and I’m going to get a reward, that’s necessarily loyalty, but that is supporting loyalty.
And so I think there’s a lot more people working in the loyalty space than we think, just because you don’t have loyalty in your job title. I think there’s a lot more people supporting it than anyone’s really aware of.
Carly: Absolutely. And it’s a common statement. It’s not mine, but loyalty is a behavior, not a program. So, and it works both ways, as we discussed earlier between the member and the company to the member.
For yourself before we close out as well today. What would you be most proud of? What’s something you can tell us that you’re most proud of, whether it’s current role, previous role, or generally?
Eden: That is such a difficult question. I would say most proud of, I think the minor changes that we’ve made to HCF Thank You so far, those small things that we’ve done to break down friction with our members, to speak to their interests and, you know, their segments a little bit more, to engage members earlier in life cycle marketing you know, system.
And also bring back some of our members who’ve been with us for so many years, never used our program. How can we bring them back? I think it’s been working with those internal stakeholders within the business to get those initiatives off the ground. That for me is something where it’s, you know, it’s a million little things that have compounded into one you know, big uplift in redemptions. That for me has been the thing I’m most proud of. Cause I know that, you know, it requires, it can take a, you know, a village to, to make some of these initiatives work.
And also not everyone is, and this goes back to my advice. Not everyone is attuned with loyalty. Not everyone is thinking about it and knows all the principles of it. So when you’re trying to get that across internally, you need to use layman’s terms. You need to explain to them what the different benefits of these certain behaviors are and how you can build loyalty through that way. So the ability to communicate that to internal people and get by. And for me, that’s a measure of success for myself. And I think that should also be measures of success for new people in the industry.
Carly: Yes. Couldn’t agree more. Couldn’t agree more. Well, thank you so very much. And I know how busy you are at the moment with the upcoming evolution and relaunch. So once again, we’re definitely looking forward to seeing that in market and thank you very much for your time today, Eden.
Eden: Thank you so much, Carly.
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